 As-salamu alaykum dear viewers, peace be upon you all, welcome to our show discussing several aspects of Ashura that we can learn from. Today's topic, we're going to focus on the children that were present on the day of Ashura, the legacy they left behind, their role on the day and afterwards, and the lessons we can learn from them. To discuss this topic, we're going to have with us Sheikh Ali Mash, we've got Sayed Mohsin Shah, we've got Imran Datoor and we've got Tahir Azul to provide us with poetry as well. Sheikh, one of the magnificent things about the story of Ashura is the age range that was present from the six-month-old infant to the person who was elderly and not just for the young people, I think there are several lessons we can learn as adults by the young people present on Karbala because as we mentioned on different episodes, even the young people showed a maturity that was above the years. But going back before Ashura, why did Imam bring his children in the first place? Because I'm sure he would have thought and others would have thought, this is between me and the superpowers, why could the children involved? Children were brought in Karbala, briefly we can say that to uncover the true face of Bani Umayyah and specifically Yazid, a tyranny that did not only disrespect the sanctity of Ahlulbayt as a household, alaihum salam, but also the children in a way that some of them were looted on the day of Karbala, the earrings were taken from their ears and some of them were poked by the end of the spear and some were lashed and some of course were killed and when Imam al-Hussein alaihi salam took his infant, the six-month infants, to the enemies in order to be the proof of Allah as a hujjah upon the enemies that and he said to them that if there's something done by the adults, what is the guilt of this child, then give him some water which eventually killed this infant on the lap of his father. So they showed no mercy, no humanity, they showed nothing in terms of respecting at least the sanctity of this household by leaving the children alone and not to kill them. But as one of them said from the any side, so none of their offspring will remain after them, so they wanted to kill everyone, even the children, so no one would remain after the Imam al-Hussein alaihi salam. But Allah swt will that he kept Imam al-Sajjad and some other children as well, like Imam al-Baghra alaihi salam. We had narrations that he was there in Ashura, he witnessed Ashura, he was around the age of three or four and he saw and some of the narrations of the Karbala is by Imam al-Baghra alaihi salam. So, this of course, the presence of children is also by Allah swt. Sayyid al-Mursal, looking at that moment where Imam brings his children from Mecca to Kufan and to Karbala, I mean we're looking at someone who knows that my children are also going to be slaughtered. If not slaughtered, take him captive afterwards, because he was informed about this. What brings Imam to actually make that step to bring the children? Because surely the easier, and we would not excuse him either, for leaving your children behind. I'm sure he'll still remain a great person, the symbolic act of bringing the children. How was he able to do that? Well, I'll ask you, how was Prophet Ibrahim able to bring his son to be sacrificed on that day? And this is the same for, I think, for Aba Abdul Al-Hussain, it's like he's got his sacrifice, but he's also saying to Allah swt, it's not just me, my life I'm going to sacrifice. I'm going to bring my children, my nephews, my brothers. We are all here to sacrifice our lives for your cause, you know. And it clearly states, and I think it's Charles Dickens who mentions this in his quote on regards to Karbala, that the fact that he brings his family and his children shows that it wasn't a material, a worldly affair, that there was something a lot more high up to this. So I think that's what really drove Aba Abdul Al-Hussain to bring everyone. And also, let's not forget, it wasn't, I don't think it was like this, but it was like an open invitation. He did speak to people in regards for support, and the Khufaans were there to show their support, also when he left Mecca, Medina for Mecca, when he left Mecca for Khufa. And even on that day, when everyone was killed, we had the famous line, he says, is there anyone else there to aid me? And he still needs that support, he still wants the support, but also that he's all alone, and that he's brought so many with him, and so many have gone. So I think this is the true significance, and also this is the true message of Imam Hussain, it's not just that, you know, I'm giving up my life, but I'm giving up sacrificing my beloved, and also who is there to support me as well. Brother Tahir, what I think caused some of the worst acts a human can do. I mean, in the modern day, there's, for example, two things that really make me upset is attacking people in the place of worship, and the second one is harming a child. I'm sure many would agree with me there. Now, we know that on the day of Ashura, there were several children that were harmed, and if not harmed, they were killed, on Muhammad, from the infant, from the son of Imam Hussain, Qasim, and also another son was possibly present too, whose hand was cut. Which out of all these children, and then you've got, pardon me for forgetting the daughters of Imam taken as captives afterwards, out of all these young people, which one of these stories breaks your heart the most? Very difficult question. Me, in particular, would be Raqayah bin Tahir Hussain, not because of her age, or who she was, but because of her relationship with her father, because that's symbolized throughout the narrations that we have of how close she was to her father, how she would remember her father, and in the end, that demise was related to her relationship with her father. So that particular story in particular resonates with me. But yeah, like you mentioned, and to echo Hussain's points, sometimes you have to sacrifice yourself as in enough, you sacrifice from which you love, and that makes the value of the sacrifice even greater. And it's difficult because to think somebody was willing to sacrifice a child for a specific message, it adds weight to it, like I said, the value of it is greater, but it's also testament on the enemies as well. They were willing to kill children, and for centuries to come, some people realize, even if they're confused about which side to take, one side killed children, so just balancing the humanity between us. On the human level, yeah. So it's not just a political issue, like some people would like to say, you've got an issue where human life, and not just human life, children's lives were taken, and that should make it clear. And I think at the end of the day, that was a small part of the reason why Mahasin took his children with him. Brother Imran, looking at, again, the children, I think, when we're all adults in this room right now, and to take lessons or instructions from a child requires a very big degree of humility, like when Jesus was born and announced that he's a prophet, many people couldn't really comprehend that. But when it comes to the children of Ashura, that doesn't really come into our head what their age was, we just humbly accept that these are our models. You, as an adult, how are you able to take lessons from children on the day of Ashura? Yeah, I think it's a huge deal of, in a normal situation, humility would come into it, and you would have to reduce your ego to actually listen to any normal child. But when it comes to the children of Karbala, the sacrifice that they gave themselves and the trials and tribulations they went through, when we listen, when we even hear about it, tears just flow into our eyes, and there's a reason for those tears that are flowing. It's not just, I guess, of course, the tragedy of Karbala, it's a big tragedy, and the sacrifice and the enemies, the way they treated the women of Mahmukh-e-Zeyn al-Asalam, etc. It's atrocious, and in that in itself, the tears flow because of the atrocity of it, how the enemies didn't care enough. But for the children especially, when you cry, these tears are saying something. They're not just crying for no reason, these tears hold weight, they hold weight of the sacrifice that they did, they hold weight of the lessons that they gave us through that sacrifice. So when it came to, say, the Rukia, for example, innocent girl, but even though she, of course, you know, she would have known in that sense of having that elm, etc., or maybe she doesn't, you know, Allah khanim on that one. But it's the vibe, I guess, she would have got that, you know, whatever's happening to her, it's happening, and she's helping her dad in whatever way it was. It's, you know, if you bring it down to an innocence level, you're helping your dad do whatever he did. You saw your father pass away in front of you, and now you, and then, you know, the enemies are continuing there, atrocities on you, but you know that it's something you're doing to help your father, who was doing it to help Islam, who was doing it for the sake of Allah swt. So if, again, somebody like a 4, 4, 5 year old girl can do something like that, you know, the respect level is already way, way above anything what we can do. So automatically, that level just, it goes up. I mean, there are, if you go on YouTube, you see some little kids reciting the Quran in the most beautiful voice in the music, Bukhari's Tajweed, I'm not at that level, but I look at that boy and be like, wow, I can learn from that kid. So similarly, obviously with the children of Karbala, it's at a much bigger level, but it's the same kind of concept. Absolutely. In honor of the children of, that were present in Karbala on the day of Ashura and afterwards, and as per usual with the format of the show, we're going to have a short section of poetry recited by my brother Tahir in honor of these children. So after the tragedy of Karbala for centuries on end, we would flock in our millions to Mahasin, but there was one specific journey which was the reverse, where Mahasin had a partial visit to one specific person, and that's Eid al-Rukkayah. And so this poem focuses on her close relationship with her father and her sadness and confusion and the innocence of this child and how they approach a situation like this. So she would say every morning I fell asleep to the smell of him. A star smiles from above, but no star has the nerve to shine nor watch me cry tonight. All my stars disappeared that day. He was always here mid-screen, sheltering me like a dream within a dream, but these nights only darkness would settle my heart to sleep. That and silence with my infant brother buried deep, no thirsty smile to kill the loneliness. I remember when my father left the tents, carrying him small and innocent, my baby brother would tilt his head and look up at him, like how I did at every moment. And he would smile, and when he'd smile his tongue would shiver, nothing to hold it. But no matter how hurt my father was, he would always return it. Returning the smile was all he could offer him, now though I cannot see or feel my father's gentleness, just heads upon spears. With my eyes swimming in tears, while the air inherits his scent as it smothers me to sleep. Every night my tears race down, gliding past lips that once leapt on the candles of his eyes, dripping onto fingers that he once kissed. All I want is a glimpse. If anybody knew where my father was, it would be my uncle, right? My uncle was the pride of my father. He would say, I need no army but Abbas. He did not need his father's double edged sword to be great for his double helix. The name moved him like the shadow of Ali in battle, and raised him like a moon in the cascades of darkness. So much so, he was called the Hashemite moon, Qamar bani Hashem. If anybody could save me from my father, save me, save me, it would be the lion, the son of the lion. Nobody can kill him. My uncle left for water. When he's back, I'll tell him, I'll tell him of all this slaughter. I'll tell him how brave men lined up one by one to pledge allegiance in their throats in one, and how the time came for our family to follow. I'll tell him how Akbar left and returned with a spear in his chest. I'll tell him how Qasem went into battle as Hassan's heir, and how all my beloved are now slain everywhere. I'll tell him how much my auntie needs, how much my auntie needs him there, to hold her with his strong hands, and unshuckle my chains and for him to stare into the eyes of our captors, because nobody could stare into the eyes of Qamar bani Hashem without fit. But what is this I hear about an arrow, your hands, uncle, are you here? Silence is my only reply, the walls my only friends, as they echo my screams back to me. Thank you. Sheikh, let's go back to the day of Arshur itself. For more historical perspective, my question is twofold now. Is number one, roughly, can we get an estimation of how many children were present on the day of Karbala? And secondly, did Imam actually mention them and talk about them to the passers-by, because you mentioned in Makkah, and say the most mentioned as well, that they were clearly visible, but did you actually talk about them to the enemy forces? In terms of the numbers of the children attending Karbala, there were seems to be dozens, because the tent was filled with children calling al-Atash, al-Atash, they were calling for water. And that's why al-Abbas, alayhi salam, went to bring water for the children. So it was a huge number of children attended Karbala. I have some statistics with regard to those who were killed within, including the adults, of course. From Imam Hussein's sons, three of them were killed, so three people. Imam Hassan IV, alayhi salam. The sons of Aqil XII and the sons of Ja'far IV. In overall, including Bani Hashem and Al-Abi Talib, in over, there were 33 within this purified family were killed. And many of them were children as well, from the infant to Al-Qasim to even the girls and who were killed and those who passed away later. Of course, we have a narration with regard to the journey from Karbala to Kufa and Kufa to Sham, that on their way from Kufa to Sham, they passed through Lebanon and specifically the city of Baalbek. When one of the daughters of Al-Hussein, alayhi salam, she became ill and she passed away and she's now buried in Baalbek in Lebanon with the name of Khawla. There's a shrine there, the Mu'minin visit, that shrine. Also, when they entered Syria, they passed through the city of Halab. Also, the Imam had a wife who was a pregnant. She miscarried that child. They named him Muhsin or Muhassin. Now, in that region, they call him Sheikh Muhassin. For the memory of Muhsin of Fatimah al-Zahra, alayhi salam, who was miscarried between the door and the wall when she was crushed by her enemies. And, of course, when they reached Sham, again, they placed an abandoned location, next to the palace of Yazid. Again, alayhi salam was the last child to face death. Thank you. Brother Thari, you had a second part of the poem, which we would like to hear from you. So, they said, the walls, my only friends, as they echo my screams back to me. Until that moment came, men drew near with an object held up to me. I sat upon my cold feet to see what they had brought for me. I want no gifts, no food to settle this empty void. I just want my whispered memories to come to life instead. And there, they showed me on a platter, my answered wish, they said. And so I stared into his saddened pupils, back and forth wishing I could disappear, all together in his blood drenched eyes until the morning prayer. I can hear his eyes singing, Ruqaiyyah, I know how much you miss me, dear, I can feel the shivers of your tiny heart, but I'm only a dream away. So, dream your way back into my arms. The garment of my soul wrapped around his head. I cried into his wounds and breathed him in, until death released me from this embrace as I dreamt my tiny soul away. And there, I was back into his arms, and there beside him my uncle stood, like a mountain he was, carrying the water, two hands as promised, one hand to quench me, and one to quench the souls, beinul haramein. So, thank you. Thank you. And say the most, and just to close with a few remarks. Could you just shed some light upon, we can't explain them all, but some of the atrocities that did take place in the children, post-Ashura, particularly obviously the female children on the palm of the scene? Try not to be too graphic, but it was as bad as you could imagine. First of all, they were all chained up. Some of the chains didn't fit them, and because of their heights and everything, some were made to, and this is based on what I've heard, I haven't read this anywhere, but apparently they got the kids to line up and they chained one to the other, and because some were taller than the others, they had to tiptoe. Is that why Imam Sajid had to crouch or not as well, because he chained to them as well? Well, Imam Sajid was even even worse. I've heard stories where he was pulled by a horse and then he fell on the floor, and then the horse just dragged him all over the, and things like that. Children were slapped, shot at, screamed, tormented. I remember one, and I mean, I'll mention it, and I'll try not to be too graphic, but when they were burning the tents, say the Ruqaia, or say the Sakina, they said the young four-year-old daughter of Imam Sajid. Apparently, she was hit so hard by Shemad, from that moment on, she began to stutter, because she had such a, I won't even say psychological, but you know, they had a physical, neurological, cognitive effect on her, and furthermore, you know, going, going, you know, when they got into Sham, being pelted with stones and other objects, and then even in the prisons, God knows if they were fed, and the conditions that they were living in, it was, I'm not surprised, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the future, we found more tombs and more burial places of these children on the way from Kadabra to Sham. Absolutely, and Brother Imran, looking even backwards at the story of the infant baby, and I think even we mentioned on the human level, the baby being killed that way. What do you think, and this is more of an opinion kind of question, what leads the human being to be able to do that to a child? I mean, we've seen stories in recent years in the news and with similar stories where a two-year-old, six-year-old girl's kidnapped or something, and something's done to them and they're found in a garbage dumpster or something in some part of the village, and where do you think the human being goes so low where they're able to do this? Yeah, it's almost, it is animalistic, as opposed to even being considered a human reaction anymore. You know, it gets to say, we see, like you said, serial killers nowadays, and you know, there's shows and programs about them, and when they kind of research into their psychology, like, why do they do certain things that they do? And you know, there's a whole science behind it, and psychologically, you need to be finished in order to do something like that. You need to be at such a low level where you care not for anybody anymore, where you care, nothing matters to you anymore, even if you... Or the opposite, where you are so desperate to gain something... True, yes. To get attention or wealth or whatever that you would go to. I think in Islamic ethics, it's called like the death of the heart, where the heart becomes too hard, and we will end on this point, this tragic point of how the children were treated. We would like to thank our dear viewers from across the world for watching this show, on the infants and children that were present in Karibullah. The one Koran verse that comes to my mind discussing this topic is when God Almighty describes the question the infant girls will ask on Judgment Day about why they were buried alive. And the simple phrase is used is for what sin were they killed. And truly this Koran verse reflects what happened to the children of Imam Hussain on the day of Ashura, for what sin were they killed, for what sin were they oppressed and harassed in such a terrible manner. We would like to end our show as per usual in the format, a eulogy in honour of the children of the Imam by brother Imran. That's it. So just again, a quick brief. We haven't mentioned this personality in here, but he was the son of Imam Hussain as of Ali al-Aqbal al-Islam, so to honour him, we'll finish off with him. Please, Bismillah. My Imam Hussain You are leaving to go and meet your Lord but I know that your chest will be pierced by the sword for the sake of Allah my tears I will hold as you go to the battlefield look back at me look back at me for one last time Oh Ali al-Aqbal Oh Ali al-Aqbal Why are you leaving me Ali al-Aqbal From anew born to them and you are today On Muhammad's path you've never gone astray Within you is a part of Hussain You took my eyesight with you when you left this world with a wounded chest Oh Ali al-Aqbal Oh Ali al-Aqbal Why are you leaving me Ali al-Aqbal I have been carrying bodies all day Now my back is broken I can't keep it straight Oh my son I am tired and afraid When you fall down on the hot sands I won't be able to carry you Oh Ali al-Aqbal Oh Ali al-Aqbal Why are you leaving me Ali al-Aqbal With difficulty I reach your body Laughing at you hurts the enemy You're covering your chest please let me see When you move your hands I see that knife Pissed in your chest Oh Ali al-Aqbal Oh Ali al-Aqbal Why are you leaving me Ali al-Aqbal Oh Ali al-Aqbal Oh Ali al-Aqbal Why are you leaving me Ali al-Aqbal