 We're back with more conversations on the breakfast and plus TV Africa and I guess it's nicely poised to do justice to this conversation. Well, I'm sure you already know by now that the Independent National Electrical Commission INEC on Tuesday released the final list, that's Nigeria's electoral body, released the final list of the presidential candidates that it clad to contest February 25 election and indeed other elections, but we have the governorship and presidential, let's say the state and national elections. Among those clad are the candidates of the all-progressive Congress, Bola Ahmed Tinnaboo, the People's Democratic Party, Tikko Aboubaqara, the Labour Party, Peter Obi and the New Nigeria People's Party, Rabi Musa Kwankwa, so they're part of the 18-quad clad for the presidential election. The names of their running mates were also listed. The names were contained in the list sent to media organisations of which plus TV received one. It also released the names and particulars of the candidates for the senatorial election and the House of Representatives election elections into the two chambers hold the same day as the presidential election February 25. Also released the names and particulars of the candidates for the senatorial election and House of Representatives election as we said earlier. Other information provided in the list are the age, the gender and the economic qualification. The electoral body had, if you remember in June, published a temporary list of the candidates in line with a timetable and shadow of activities for the 2023 polls. Now, what I, Anik is saying is that 1,101 candidates are vying for the 109 senatorial seats while 3,122 are vying for the 360 seats in the House of Representatives. Now joining us to provide some analysis of this is Public Affairs Anis, Nika Gulinik. Very good morning to you. Thanks for joining us. Good morning. Thank you very much. All right. Good morning to our viewers. Thank you so much. Any surprises for you having looked at the names on the list? Those who were hits and those who were misses. Any surprises for you? No, I don't have any surprises. It is expected already for the presidential candidates. We already had a glimpse of those who are standing. So this list has only confirmed the names of the people we already know and who have already been going around the country because remember for the major parties their primaries were in national focus. So we already know that these are the candidates that were expected to be on the ballot. So majorly there was nothing surprising about the list. Some people have pointed to the qualifications of these candidates. So let's dive straight into that. Some of the candidates have a school certificate or GCE as the case may be. Some have master's degree holders, some just have the bachelor's degree. It seems there's some confusion as regards the academic qualifications of some candidates because there are some candidates who you expect that they would have their bachelor's and it's public knowledge that they went to university but they didn't put the bachelor's degree certificate up there. There are some candidates who may have a master's degree. That's widely publicized but there's nothing on this list, on this sheet, this spreadsheet to show that they actually presented the certificate to INEC. What do you think is at play here? I think that's a very good point that you have pointed out because I notice that myself that there are candidates, some of them are already in the public eye and there are qualifications that we have come to associate them with and those things were not listed against their names and I think this could stem from one or two reasons. The first reason is simply because INEC did not make a more detailed compilation. That is a reason. The second reason is if the candidates deemed it that since the first school living certificate as a minimum requirement is enough for them, I mean, in the case of President Bukhari, I think some lawyers were even interpreting the constitution to say you don't even need an educational qualification to stand for elections. If they perhaps thought they have already made minimum and therefore they don't need to state all the certificates that they have or the certifications that they have, could be another reason. But also there could be a third reason and that third reason is that some of these qualifications that people bandied about, some of them are either not received or are received from dodgy institutions, what I mean dodgy institutions that have will be recognized by the appropriate bodies in Nigeria being the National Universities Commission as legitimate certifications are now not wanting to step them because they don't want to go into litigation where they will be challenged on the veracity of the qualifications that are pending against their names. So that could also be a reason that candidates who are not sure of their qualifications have decided to keep them out so that they don't have to go into any controversy that will eventually probably end up in court. I also noticed that there are candidates that don't have any qualification whatsoever stated against their names. So I don't know in that case whether it's an error of compilation from INEC that they decided not to pick any qualifications on the nomination forms and put on this list or the candidates themselves said they did not go to school. They have no certification whatsoever and that is why that field for certification is blank. But I think these are questions that INEC will have to answer in the coming days if people are starting for elections want to know what their certifications are because give it or leave it or take it. A person's capacity to deliver is broadened with education. When we go to school imagine a child growing up knowing nothing with education they are able to become a surgeon that means they are able to split human beings apart remove certain parts, repair some parts and close those human beings back. And the human beings later jump down from bed and they are living their life walking around. You can never get that capacity except you have gone to school. So there's a lot that we gain when we go to school we have an education and we want to know that the people we are going to vote for in 2023 have had some level of education because we know it impacts on their eventual performance when they get into office. So these are questions that INEC has to answer in the coming days as to why some of the candidates don't have any qualifications whatsoever stated against their names and some candidates that in the public eye we already know have higher qualifications but they were not stated in there. So well I mean maybe we'll probably come back to the conversation of qualification or whether or not it matters of course we know that the constitution is very explicit as regards you know qualification for different positions especially if you're vying for position but let's still stay with you know the issue with the list and those who made it and didn't make it. Akwad Lawan's name didn't make it but of course Apabio made it and the case here it's a bit I mean some similarity with both parties but one made it and one did not make it. I'd like you to show your thoughts on it. So if I go by the explanation of INEC regarding these two candidates INEC said that in Apabio's case a court order is what forced their hands to put Apabio's name on the list and probably there is no such court order in the Lawan's case or that case could still be caught or it's in the pipeline but if INEC eventually gets a court order for the Lawan's case I believe they'll also put his name on the list so that's a differentiating factor between the two candidates otherwise their cases are similar they are the same and Apabio is on the list and also Apabio's case a court order ordering INEC to put his name on the list doesn't mean that the court process the judicial process has ended probably the other parties might want to go and appeal so until the case is finally adjudicated perhaps by the highest court in the land the Supreme Court before the Apabio's case can also be confirmed. All right let's look at I mean one or two of the candidates I'm just going to this list here and there's some controversy regarding the presidential candidate so some debate amongst the supporters of three leading candidates as far as the polls or the conversations online and everything is concerned the supporters of Atikwa Bubakara say no he's the only presidential candidate that amongst the leading three that you know we normally talk about PDP, APC and Labour Party that has a master's degree and that should you know put him ahead of the pack what are your thoughts on this you've talked about it you've touched on this in a bit but I want us to dovetail into these three parties PDP having Atikwa Bubakara who has a master's degree if you look at what permit me to just cast my eyes on on this list if you look at what and I hope that we can just blow it out on the screen as well look at what the APC has you have Bolabit Tirubu you know 70 mil BSE business administration you look at his vice presidential candidate BSE agriculture that's talking about Kasim Shetima so do you think that Atikwa is ahead of the the big three the other big three candidates because he has a master's degree in terms of what he can bring to the table as a president of Nigeria. Permit me to go back in history a bit in Nigeria in our 62 years of independence there was a time where all that was being said was because Nigeria was not being governed well because of the fact that no graduates had taken the reins of power as as the leader of Nigeria either as a president or head of state because you know started from the Taffa Balewa times into the military and you know the military people in those days when they went to NDA they didn't get a degree NDA became a degree awarding institution at some point in fact the earlier military boys went to Sandost or other shots in the UK or Tessia in Ghana they they didn't come out with degrees because they spent basically like two years three years in the military academy and they were commissioned as officers so from Taffa Balewa to the military boys all the way to Shagari you know we didn't have a graduate who were who were president even when we got to Obasan Joe you know Obasan Joe qualifications were also in controversy so Nigerians were saying oh because we don't have a graduate to have led Nigeria previously this is why Nigeria is not being governed well and so we rose from no degree to a PhD we got good in good Lord Jonathan we had a PhD holder become president of Nigeria but nothing changed good Lord Jonathan did not show anything that we indicate to us that a person's academic qualifications can actually be a differentiating factor so to me the first qualification the real first qualification that somebody needs for the office of president or all the other political offices across the land is the human qualities of that person the human qualities for instance if we have a compassionate person naturally this person is compassionate meaning the person's heart met at the sufferings of others a person that when he sees suffering wants to do everything to to to to solve it that is the qualification that is needed but when the person that goes to school and obtains academic qualifications that only enhances that person's capacity to deliver if not that being the case then you can bring professors look we have had professors who have taken on positions of authority I know that professor Osumbo was governor in those states you know we have had professors as ministers as commissioners both professors have come into the political space in different roles we even have professors who preside over the the elections and you can see that they don't bring their professorial qualifications to that table that's a clear indication that it is the person's human qualities that matter most more than the academic qualifications the academic qualifications are only enhancers they are enhancers to the performance but if that person is bad he will remain bad even if he has got all the degrees in the world so coming to your question directly articles qualifications having a master's degree why the other candidates don't have a master's degree means absolutely nothing in the scheme of things if attitude is a good man if he's a good man if he's a bad man his qualification will happen all right there's four message comes in let me just put it out there that um there was some controversy because on uh beside Peter B's name they just wrote degree there was nothing there to show what kind of degree that was and there was some talk of him not being able to present a certificate to Inay Kemp one of his aides um was able to put out on his Twitter page yesterday Wednesday September 21 OB's NYSE certificate and his degree certificate he had a second-class upper a lower division sorry in philosophy maybe that shows why he talks headway he does um you have the the the worst qualifier lowest qualified M ticket or duo being the ADC of Kachikudu maybe and his running mate having just presented school set do I suspect they have more than that but the most qualified Nick Agulay seems to be Rabi Musa Kwan Koso and his running mate Bishop Isaac Idaosa of NMPP who are both PhD holders so able to show actually uh progression in all the things he presented of the academic uh journey so far thank you well uh Nick Agulay okay sorry let's move away from that now and I mean you the perspective and insight that you brought I mean very valid because uh like you rightly mentioned uh you will have seen professors as governors and uh there's nothing really uh that's been professed by them at the end of the look at the states and nothing to show for them so a conversation for another time but I'd like to ask you now what do you think the implication is now that INEC has put out the list this is the finalist what's the implication of this for uh political parties as we inch closer to 2023 thanks very much for that question before I answer the question let me just uh you know conclude by on the last point to say that if I look at that list in terms of the qualifications that INEC have listed I think INEC actually just went and copied exactly what the candidates put in their nomination forms and put on their website so INEC needs to do some data cleanup for instance I'll give you an example for some candidates they wrote uh abbreviated FSLC that is first school living certificate INEC put it FSLC candidates they are wrote first school living certificate INEC actually wrote first school living certificate so if INEC was going to abbreviate FSLC should have done that for all candidates and if they are writing first school living certificate they do the same all into all candidates you know I'm from Benway so I took interest in the Benway list there's one candidate there who wrote first school living the living was not L-E-A-V-I-N-G it was L-I-V-I-N-G and that is exactly what INEC has there so I think there's cleanup that needs to be done in terms of INEC now coming to your question uh what does this mean well what this means for us the electorate is that we now have a full picture of those who are standing for national elections and we have to begin to interrogate interrogate them now we need to start to listen to them we need to have to follow them we need to dig into their past you see in those nations where democracies are working and citizens are enjoying life this is what happens the citizens including individuals groups the the the media and the civil society and everybody will be out now scrutinizing these candidates checking what they have done in the past because you see what people have done in the past is a clear pointer to what they will do in the future it's not what they are talking now they could job is sweet talking us into giving them votes but what they have done in the past is very important and we need to dissect all that we need to unravel these people we need to uncover them we need to expose them so that we know the people we are going to the polls to vote for because you see as they say prevention is better than cure we have to make sure we get the right people into office because if we don't get the right people into office and we allow them to get into office and then we hope that we are going to change them while they are in office so that they will deliver good governance to us that's what we have tried in the last 22 years and it has not worked for us so this list is now on the table what it means for us is to look into it critically and begin to look at these people and and and the and the enlightened community the enlightened section of our of our country are the ones that have to take the lead you know there are a lot of voters in the villages that probably don't even have access to the internet they have not even seen this list at all they don't even know who is on the on the ballot and it is for those of us who are knowledgeable we have seen the list we know these people everybody should be talking back to their people in the village and saying that man that stood for senate is a bad man that man that stood for house or rep he can't do anything for you but we have we have to go uh since apologies we have to pull the plugs on that because we were told we overshot that time uh but i'm sure the conversation will continue we have some months to go till february 25 but thank you so much for your time and your expert analysis as always thank you so very much for this time all right have a nice nice you too leaving instead of leaving you know like one of the announced protesters was holding a placard you know university students now they also know they spelled dying as D I E I N G D what D I E I N G dying you know it's amazing what we see all right anyway we'll be right back let's take a short break we have a further discussion ahead on the breakfast