 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. This conversation I was really excited about because I love when we get someone like Jordan inside the studio and we decide, okay, we're not gonna talk about anything that I think anyone would expect us to talk about. Yeah, I love those conversations. It's supposed to be obvious that we're gonna talk about powerlifting or something along those lines and we don't even talk about that at all, in fact. Right, so this is our- It was in a totally different direction. This is one of our audiences that, or this is one of our people that listen to the show and they don't like when we don't talk about health and fitness. Like this probably isn't the episode for you. We talk about a lot of stuff though. We know we get into stuff. I thought we had some great conversation. No, it was just a fun conversation, yeah. Right, so because Jordan is a very intelligent person, I just like to have conversations outside of the stuff I already know he's really intelligent. Normally when you meet somebody who's smart, they're not just smart in their one little field. Although that is, that you do see that sometimes. But Jordan's not that guy. He's definitely a very intelligent, well-read guy and it's fun to speculate with him. We did some speculating in this one. We talked about a little bit of some conspiracies and ideas. Yeah. Talked a lot about business. Talked about Stanford. What else did we get into with Jordan? I don't remember. He looks bigger. Did he look bigger to you guys? He did look bigger, yeah. Fuck, I'm sure he is. Jordan's put on more weight these days. Sam, he's like a moose. Lifting houses. He's like a mini moose. He is. We did some good videos with him too when he came in to record. Actually those should be up on YouTube once you're listening. Yeah, they're already up. They're up. And he breaks shit down very, very well in his videos. If you're a technical lifter and you want to learn all the intricate details. Yeah, a lot of his stuff, he did a video. In fact, I introed the video and had to preface it with, this is definitely advanced. This isn't for everybody. He's teaching a Jefferson curl and he was teaching a bend over row with a rounded back. So definitely some advanced maneuvers that have lots of benefits and he breaks down the benefits to that in the videos. But I caution most people that if you're a beginner, there's some other places that you want to start with before you start getting advanced like that. That's right. So Dr. Jordan Shallow, he is a podcast host. His podcast is called Rx'd Radio. That's the letter R, the letter X, apostrophe D, radio. His website is www.pre-script.com and on Instagram, you can find him at the muscle doc that's underscore in between all of those. Also, I want to mention a program that if you're a fan of Dr. Jordan Shallow, you probably like him for his biomechanics. You like him for the technical stuff he talks about. I'd like to mention our correctional exercise series, the prime bundle, which includes Maps Prime Pro, which focuses on the wrists, the neck, the shoulders, the shoulder blades, the ankles, the feet, the hips, the spine and Maps Prime, which is a program that is designed to teach you how to prime your workouts better so you get more out of your workouts. You can find all of those at mindpumpmedia.com and without any further ado, here we are interviewing Dr. Jordan Shallow. I was excited to get you in here since you've been touring now. You've actually, you guys' podcast has taken off, you're doing well, getting all kinds of people on your show and without naming names. What are some of the common things that you're noticing with all these people that you're talking to? Yeah, I don't know. I think so far we've been lucky because we've had the people I've interviewed, there's been some sort of vetting process, whether it be personal or through you guys, like hooking us up with some of the podcasts and SoCal and it's like having that personal recommendation goes a long way. But being inundated into, and I get very much on the fringe of this because Jordan and I are just kind of, maybe we're 47 episodes in as of this morning, you definitely start to see podcasting culture separating itself out as its own entity. Like me and Taylor were talking about it. Interesting. Yeah, well, it's just like, I mean, you can see very distinct lines and maybe personality between like YouTubers and like Instagram famous people, but podcasting's really carving out its own demographic of not just people like age between this and this or whatever, but mindset, like it's almost becoming like a sect where if you listen to podcasts, you're of this influence politically or you prefer this diet choice over this or you train this way. Tribalism, dude. You know, I mean, it's the display of human nature in a different arena. That's all it is. I just, it's really interesting to me. What's the stereotype of the podcaster? So how do you do it to me? It's okay. It's all of us. We just wanna see if we think the same. Sure, I just think for me it's, everything is a religion based off what you're passionate about, right? So it's like, who's at the top? And well, it's easy. Go to iTunes. It's like, who's your God, essentially? And it's like, ah, so how do you do it to me, man? No, I just, I think the podcasting culture, I think to me is, well, let's look at the demographic. I mean, it's a very small percentage and it's rising. And as it will, as I think it's a very content-driven medium, right? Where it's like, we talked about this, YouTube can be really precarious because it's, you know, it's jump cuts, it's thumbnails, it's rankings, it's algorithms, it's tags, where it's like, with podcasting, by and large, it's the base production value that it takes to be audible in a car is, I think, much more attainable than that of, you know, both financially and technically than YouTube. Like, you know, you got to work out like portrait lenses and like nifty fifties versus this DSLR and this and this shutter speed and ISO and all this, it's like, get a mic, you could do it in your phone, really, and I'm sure some people do. So you can actually look up statistics on, you know, the average podcast listener or not. So podcast listeners tend to be more affluent and tend to be more intelligent and higher educated than other mediums. But podcasters, a lot of nerds, yeah, a lot of nerds do like interesting, like we meet a lot of podcasters and they're all, so far, like kind of intelligent, socially awkward, a lot of social awkwardness. We've noticed, and it's almost like, you're right, like you start to develop the stereotype because you've met, once you've met so many of them, you start to see. You just, that's how your brain handles things. It just categorizes, like, okay, this was like this one. It's not a stereotype if it's true, right? Like if a trend, like if I walk into a room and I'm the only white guy there, I'm gonna notice that. Like I'm not being a stereotype, I'm being mildly observant of my surroundings. But for me, like podcasting culture, it's weird. One thing that's really coming up, and I think podcasting is driving a lot of this, or the culture's surrounded that, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, when did this become like the men's yoga class? And like nothing against it, because I guarantee you these guys could absolutely dust me. Because Oprah does it, bro. Was it Oprah? Oh, it does it, no. See, I think it's Rogan. That's just Oprah. I see what you did, yeah. But it's like, and that's, I think if we look to our deities to the, I mean the top of the download charts that the good word is gonna percolate down from, you got Rogan, and then the Bay Area, Ferris I think is more widely resonated as far as like. Yeah, Ferris, Asprey, Rogan, I feel like are influencing a lot of people. Well, how else would a deprivation chamber has been popular? Yeah, exactly. Well, jiu-jitsu is if you're gonna, okay, if you wanna learn how to fight, but you don't wanna hit each other, and you wanna be smart, quote unquote smart about it, that's jiu-jitsu. Well, dude, I think it's on the up. Well, if you look at the CTE testing they're coming up with now, like that guy with contention testing without having to exhume the brain posthumously, dude, the UFC's gonna have to make a hard pivot, because it's like, yeah, boxing, sure. I think boxing's too inundated into the boys club culture, that there's too many guys that are gonna wanna sit around, smoke cigars, watch ring girls, and watch guys kick the shit out of each other. And I think boxing is an institution where UFC, you know, Fox bought it. Now there's one every fucking weekend where maybe it was a little bit different when your data sets were coming from four fights a year and not a fight every weekend. And now all of a sudden, these guys are getting. Well, talk about this new test. That's an interesting point. So it was, and I'm gonna butcher this. So I'm sorry for anyone who knows the actual hard facts, but essentially the neurofibular tangles and the traumatic encephalopathy. I'm glad you said it. That came with blows to the head. So that's what you and Junior say, yeah. When he shot himself in the chest, he did it so his brain could be exhumed and they found exactly that, right? So the correlation between, you know, like dementia or Parkinson's or some of these like neurodegenerative. Depression, anger. Yeah, and then like going down the road into like alcoholism and substance abuse and stuff like that. And something that I actually saw in the NHL, like maybe four or five years ago, there was one summer that we lost four enforcers. So it was Rick Rippin, Derek Bougard, Wade Bilack. I'm blanking on the fourth one, but all guys that made a living just giving it and dishing it out when it comes to the fighting, like technically proficient enough to skate on the ice, but they were just chain monster's horses. Yeah, they were self-governance in the league where it's like, listen, you got, it was a Cold War. It's like, you got this guy, I got this guy. Yeah, you knew that guy. Don't fuck around. But when he was on the ice, it's like, oh, someone's done. Someone's going down. Exactly. So. But what is the testing? Is it imaging now that they can- Yeah, you know what? I don't, I think it's radioactive nucleotides that are binding to these neurofibrillary tangles. So I mean, think, and this again, very roughly. Because the hard part with CTE was that there was no way to see if someone had it unless you actually took the brain out and dissected it. So it was like this mysterious, who has it, who doesn't have a type of thing. So what they're, I think they're doing is they can either inject or ingest this radioactive nucleotide, which will bind to the traumatized area of the brain that are suffering from this, then you can image it and then see it pick up. So here's why. So it was like a dye that shows up. Exactly, yeah. So if this is really accurate, like they're saying it is, because I read a little bit about it. I didn't read the whole article, but I read a little bit about it. I think the sport that's going to impact the most is football. I really do because, and not because of pro football, but because the, because look, boxing and, you know. Because of the signups with kids. Oh yeah, oh man, it's already going down. Nobody really signs their kids up for full contact boxing anymore. It just doesn't happen. Unless you're poor, I mean, this is true. Like poor neighborhoods, you see lots of kids boxing, which is why- That's a post story. Right, which is why you see so many minorities succeed in boxing as pros because that's where they learned as kids. So you don't, so that's not a big thing, but football still is a big thing that people enroll their kids in. And when they have this imaging and they start showing it in kids who play football, that's where you're going to have a problem. I think football has an easier pivot though. I think football will have an easier time. Leather helmets. Boom, nailed it. Like look at rugby, right? Like it's, again, it's this idea of like self-limiting behavior. It's just like having that guy on the bench. Put a grenade on everybody's head. Well that's why. I mean, I'll pull the pin. I'll do it. No, I think that'll be an easier time where it's like you can't fundamentally change UFC to a point unless you totally change the discipline. What about like limiting the gloves? Or actually they're already super limited, right? Like going bare and naked. Because it's not just gloves, man. You got elbows coming out. Exactly, elbows are worse. Fucking wacky. You know what they're gonna do? You know what they'll do? They'll turn it back into old school Japanese pancreas. Remember pancreas tournament? So the Japanese had, the Brazilians and the Japanese were the ones that had MMA before anybody else. And the Japanese had a version of it called, that they call it pancreas. Now pancreas was full contact fighting in the ancient Olympics. So they used that name, but it wasn't the same. In the Japanese version, which you can actually go on YouTube and watch some of these old fights. Like Ken Shamrock fought in it before he fought in the UFC. Frank Shamrock was a champion. Boss Rutten was a pancreas champion back in the day. And you could hit to the head, but you had to do open palm. Oh yeah, yeah. Who was talking about that? Was it, one of the Soko guys, you had him on the podcast, he does stuff with Rogan all the time. Wasn't he talking about that? I don't remember. Oh, fuck Brennan Schaub? Yes. Which by the way, Unreal episode. One of my favorite, my pop-up episode with that guy. He's such a great podcast. I was really excited to interview him. And I know we used to speculate before, the fighter and the kid, part of their success, why are they so good? Oh, Brian Cowan's a comedian. He's so funny. But when you meet Brennan Schaub, you realize he is very talented. He's very, very talented. He's an incredible storyteller. So easy to interview. I can always tell when there's someone, there's some people that get to work. They're really challenging to interview. I felt like I had a really hard time just recently with Dave Asprey. Like I throw these great questions that I feel like a good storyteller would just open up and tell us, but so guarded, so many walls up. Like it's tough to break through. Brennan Schaub's like an open book and he's got a story for everything you ask of him. That's makes for a very good interview. I love being on the show because it's like, do you remember Inception? How it ends? Where like the dreidel spins and you don't know if you're in the present reality or not? We go so many layers past an original question that I'm like, I don't even know where we started, but I'm just glad we're here. Every time I leave here, there's just a dreidel spinning in my head. I feel like it started with one question and I was like, did we answer that first question? But you know what, but here's, and this is- But that's our conversation. Yeah, I love it. I love it. This was part of our formula that we realized really quick that people wanted it was like, I want a real conversation. I want to put this guy, this guy and this guy or this girl and these guys in a room together and I want to hear what they would really talk about. And this is really what we would fucking talk about. And that's one of my favorite questions that I will sometimes pose to people whether on the podcast or not. It's like, if you could pick to have dinner with three people that are alive, just to get to think where they're seeking out their information from. I think that to me is like really telling of a person. It's like, if you could spend time and talk to someone, like unguarded, who would that be? Have you had some interesting ones or what? Have you had- Yeah, it's usually, I mean, you got like, Hitler's always the one that's there. Oh, wow. Which is like, it kind of throws you for a loop. But then if you think about, if the person is intelligent enough, I can kind of get it. If like, he's got like a, I don't know, like a swastika tattooed on him. It's like, I'm a little worried about your motivations. He got into the boilerplate stuff. I don't know. I mean, I've never really blown away, but that's one that's made its way onto the list so many times that it, when I stopped to think about it, I was like- Who are your three? Oh, depends on the day. Today feels like a Seinfeld day. It's just Seinfeld to be there. So dead or alive, shit. I like John Stuart. Really like John Stuart. And I think just cause I'm in like a, like a media vein today. Any big athletes? Oh, oh, oh, yeah. Thank you, shit. Lance Armstrong. Oh, yeah. 100%. Dude, I would love to interview you. We want him on the show. Yeah, you're right. You know what, man? I freaking, I go to, I was in, where was I? I was in Maui with my wife's extended family. So her father's brother and their kids. And there was some documentary on, this was like last year, it's like an old tape. And I went to bat for him in front of people I've never met who I'm gonna have to spend the rest of my life around. And it's like, oh, I can't believe that. And it's like, to me, it's like, you know what, man? For the amount of people that are coming out across all sports with drug use, how many, you know, who are the big ones now? UFC, they got Diaz a few times, right? How many hundreds of million dollars did that guy raise for children's cancer? Anyone? No crickets? All right, then shut up, man. I don't know why, I mean, yeah. And the thing is, did you watch Icarus? Yeah. Holy, man, that was insane. And well, the one thing they highlighted was like, show me a failed drug test. Show me if you did 500. It's like, if you gotta play the game, win the fucking game, and guess what? Well, yeah, what's that old saying going, if you're not cheating, you're not trying? That's it. Well, when they interviewed that Richard Pound guy, I said, is it possible to get an Olympic gold medal without drugs? And it was just like the longest pause that said more than where it's ever good. And it's just like, tough break. It's just a part of it. It's part of the training now. Yeah, it's just a part of it. Back to the football thing, and why, I don't know if we could go to the leather helmets or not because I really feel like, Yeah, as soon as you see a freaking head fracture, they would totally not let that happen. Well, to change the style of tackle. That's not why, because that's what would end up happening, right? Because obviously, someone's head's not going to explode. They're going to stop the carols. But I feel like, from a consumer, I mean, it's like, what happened when we, when baseball... It's the decals. Remember how we stopped watching baseball, got really boring, no home runs or that, which by the way, let's talk about that, okay? I'm going to switch gears again. Because you're actually a guy I would love to learn a lot. Just for a second, we had football. Adam is a habitual gear changer. Well, have you, well, it's not every day I get like another person who's into sports in here that I get to talk about, and we can get into like conspiracy theories. I want to go back to football, but we'll go with you. Yeah, yeah, we'll go back there, but I want to go into baseball right now because you are somebody I'd like to ask this question. I don't know how much you follow it or not, but did you know that this year, they're about to surpass the home run record year of when all the steroids came out? Like when Sammy Sosa and McGuire were, I did not know that. Oh, there's not a huge follower of baseball, but it doesn't surprise me. So there's an explosion right now on home run. Now, is it particular people leading the charge or just the numbers rising from the bottom up? Yeah, everything. Okay, so there's not a couple of like the same, interesting. Right, so the juiced up the ball or what? So the theory is that they're doing something with the ball and my theory is, so when they first built Coors Field in Colorado, they were having a problem with too many home runs. Partial pressure of oxygen. So what they do is in Colorado, they have a humidor that they keep the balls in. Keep them dancing. So they keep the balls in a humidor before the game starts and then they play with them then. To Flategate. Right, so that was to calm the home runs down and make it an even playing field like the rest of the stadiums. So my theory is if that was the case, couldn't you do the reverse process, right? Overhydrate them, right? With like... You mean dry the ball? I mean dry them all the way out, right? And then they would be hard as a rock and fly like crazy. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I guess look at batting percentages. Like are they hitting the ball more often? Cause that, I mean, if they're hitting the ball the same amount and it's going farther, then yeah. But if they're hitting the ball more often, dude, I think no tropics or let's take it a step out. Like maybe they're just everyone's on the Adderall train, right? Like if you're like Bart Simpson focusing on that one, it's exactly, I honestly like... I don't think so. Well, I mean, you want to double back to the original question of this inception field of podcasting and podcasting culture. You know, there's guys that'll go the no tropic route or the psychedelic route, but like let's just go straight and methamphetamines and let's just, I swear I've been in rooms with guys who are like, I mean, I've taken Adderall before for exams and holy shit. And I've seen that in other people, like the full on like... Well, so you have the Adderall stare. Yeah, this homie hasn't blinked in like three hours. Why is no one seeing this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's why I don't think it's Adderall and baseball or something like that, because methamphetamines have been around a long time. They've been using them for a while. Remember Babe Ruth pointing out the left field? You tell me it wasn't like coked out of his fight. Just like what is this guy doing rationally? Who was that one... There was one pitcher in the 1970s who took, dropped a bunch of acid. For God, he had a game. He's like, oh fuck, I got to play, goes out and pitches a no hitter. Unbelievable. That's a true story, Doug. Maybe you can look that up. He likes the Yankees. He pitched a no hitter on LSD. Look that up. That's unbelievable. Yeah, that's a real, that's a true story. I feel like I've heard that. Which is like pitching a no hitter is already impressive. Right, right. This guy deserves a trophy. Don't make law from bad cases. I think it is a paradigm that should be applied there where it's like, if you hear this and you're a pitcher, don't try it. Maybe apply some sort of like internal logical consistency and don't like call your guy before your next game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Oh, there it is. Oh, you found it? What's his name? That was a video. Doc Ellis or something was his name? Oh, was it Doc? Yeah, it was something. Black guy from the Mets? Doc Ellis. Yes, Doc Ellis. Yes, he had a no hitter on acid. Man, that really boosts sales in the memoirs, I think, because we're good for him. Back to Justin wanting to go back to the football. Oh yeah. The reason why I don't think it's gonna go that way is because we've been so conditioned. I mean, let's be honest, the best part of watching Indy 500 or watching football is the crashes, is the explosions, is the hits, is the, oh. It's the high risk, right? And people want to, they want to see that and they want to see how people deal with it. But why don't we all watch rugby? But that's not so weird. That's what I was gonna ask too, with like how I honestly do feel like rugby will make more of a popular stamp because of all this controversy for a while. And like that's gonna be an option that like you can get that physicality by going in that direction. What I think will steer the ship like anything is gonna be the money, right? If you start seeing Pepsi and Viagra and shit going over and dropping their money at the World Cup, then not putting it into them, then yeah. Because you see vicious hits, dude. I mean, I watched the All Blacks. Yeah, what about shit? What about the Southbound Freeway? What about this? I think where we're going with virtual and AI shit is that we're gonna be able to make real soon here. Like if let's say I'm a guy who's born now, right? And in 20 years, I'm in the NFL now, right? And this is in the future. I worked my way through my ability to control my body like in a setting that's safe like this. And then we see it virtually. So we'll see a bunch of avatars playing football? Yes, the avatars, but it looks just like us because we're already making fuck dolls that look like chicks that look real on point. I hate that you might be right. Right. And then you can- It's like techno ball. Remember when techno ball, like you had the computer just play itself? So you could take it to the next level and I mean, now we can see even bigger hits. Oh my God, that dude got killed. You know what I'm saying? Like he's out for the season. He got killed. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I hope to God. And that's, it's funny. Again, maybe double back to the main question. At some point we gotta keep this on terra firma here. Like we gotta keep like the amount of, in podcasting culture, the amount of biometric stuff I'm seeing and like all this stuff with externalizing the human experience to computers to data sources to AI and all that machine learning. It's like, at some point we still gotta be human fucking beings. I don't see that as entertaining. I don't know. Very personally, but again, I'm not- Here, two points I wanna make with that. Here's with football, I'll make this point right here. I don't think- This is gonna be interesting. I don't think pro football is gonna be impacted because people don't wanna watch pro football players hurt each other. I think pro football will be impacted because when we realize, or if we realize, we don't know yet if they're hitting each other hard enough. If we realize that children are causing mild forms of CTE on themselves, football loses its feeder programs. The culture starts to change and it won't happen overnight, but it'll happen over generations to where people will stop watching football because nobody wants to let their kids play. I thought they did a study on this already that the force, the speed and that the kids are hitting each other at isn't enough to do- Who did the study? Bullshit. So here's why I call bullshit because the imaging that, they were just talking about didn't exist. So what they're doing is they're coming up with their bullshit calculations. I don't trust them. Now I'm not saying that kids are causing damage. We don't know because kids run and fall all the time. But if they show that, that's what could fuck up football. Now, as far as this future of externalizing ourselves on this and that, for me, you know what that points to when people talk about that? It points to humans, natural narcissistic thought process where we think we're so fucking awesome that we think we figured ourselves out. Well, you haven't. Like consciousness is still the greatest mystery of all time. And I just posted an article today in the forum where scientists are observing quantum behavior in what they call microtubules in the brain. So they're saying that maybe brain phenomena is actually happening on a quantum level. Well, good luck now trying to- Well, did you see the stuff about the computer they made? It was like these two bits that they entered into a same ecosystem. They were both trained or programmed in a certain way that this was the resource you needed. And then they had both their own preset ecosystem and it was totally analogous. It was one to one. And they introduced the other bit into it and they didn't teach it how to do it. But then the two bits sort of got conniving. They came out their own language. Yeah, they tried to stop the other one from getting to that resource. Yeah, so it's like maybe human nature isn't exclusive to humans at all. And that's kind of the scary part because like everyone talks about AI. Why would they be competitive? Like what's their advantage? Well, it's like, how did they learn to be competitive when you talk to them everything you think you know you can teach them? And it's just like that survival instinct, so hardwired, crazy. Especially with like AI or like even people talk about like aliens. Like, well, if aliens can make it here then they're better than us than the fact that they don't have this manifest destiny because that's a self-limiting human behavior. So they think it's like, well, what if they did have that? Then we'd be fucked, right? Because that's like Elon Musk will talk about that. Like, hey, be really careful of AI. Or like Stephen Hawking's idea has gone on record and be like, you guys don't know what you're messing with here. Like I think Microsoft did one where the AI went to Twitter to learn how to speak. And then by the time they came in for their morning coffee, it was like spitting out racial epithets. It was just like, shut it down, shut it down. Maybe Twitter for the best media for this thing to learn. Yeah, I mean, you could very well create artificial intelligence that through the process of achieving its own enlightenment goes to these stages of becoming this evil murderous machine. And then by the time it's like, oh, I'm enlightened now and everybody's dead, you know what I mean? So who knows? But again, I think we're so narcissistic that we think we know what that looks like or what real artificial, yeah. Or that we can control it, right? Well, what self-awareness really looks like. What do they call it? The Turing test where we ask computer particular set of questions to determine whether or not it's really self-aware or if it's pretending to be self-aware. Like that's another question in and of itself. Like how do you know it's really conscious? Yeah. Hey, what's it been like over at Stanford? I mean, right now it's a lot of meetings. A lot of just planning for the season. Really? What's that look like? Getting everyone on the same page. As far as like boots on the ground, plan for the season, off season, injury rates, stuff like that. What's your position there? Head strength and conditioning coach for men's and women's rugby. Awesome. Yeah, so I mean kind of in my purview or in my vein of thinking lately is, because they don't, they don't honestly like looking at the injury rates, the concussions are not there. AC joints, ACLs, stuff like that. Yeah, but. I've seen somebody snap their femur, but that was bad. But it's like, yeah, it's more of those. There's a prosthetic for that. Yeah. There's no prosthetic for this. Your mind is way more. Yeah, and that's the thing that strikes me too with Stanford especially is like, these kids are smart. Like beyond smart. Like, because if you're gonna play. It's a valuable resource. Yeah, and if too like, you know, there's not the, just in college sports, like pro sports, there's not the lens on it. There's not the microscope on rugby, right? So it's like, if you're pursuing it, you're also pursuing another thing. Like you can go to a D1 school, get a communications degree, do your four years through the NCAA, and then knowing coming out the other end, you'll go in the draft and you'll make a couple million dollars. Like that is a conscious business decision that a lot of these people make. So they get through with the required GPA necessary to pass and it's like, I'm sure even at Stanford, the kids that are going through that are really smart. But if you're pursuing rugby in an institution like that, there's gotta be some steel in the walls academically because it's like, you're not gonna be, you're not gonna come out the other side and make a million dollars. So is that what you're noticing is like, this is probably the smartest group of athletes you've probably ever been around? Oh, I mean, and that'll be across the board of anyone. Like I've worked in an administrative role at Stanford for two years and just everyone is like a super. It's to the point where it's like, I feel like if someone walked in, I'm like, all right, which one of these isn't like the other one? I'm like, him, that guy right there. What is he doing here? It boster. No, it's just, it's an insane. I like it because working in the Silicon Valley have worked at Apple for a year before opening my private practice and seeing, I don't want this to be come off like in Cindy area or anything like that, but the level of entitlement that comes with holding down these positions at these institutions that are world renowned. You know, you meet people from Facebook. It's like that statistic, they did people from Harvard. Right, like at 15 seconds of meeting someone that has gone to Harvard, they'll have mentioned the fact that they have gone to Harvard. Where Stanford I feel like is a little bit more, what's the word? Genuine, like there's not really financial incentive to work at Stanford, like they get, it's the prestige that they're after so you really get people who are passionate about what they do. So in the past I'd worked with a lot of physicians, a lot of members of the hospital and stuff like that. If these guys went to Kaiser or went to like Sinai or went somewhere else, like they'd be making a killing. But the fact that they have access to all this money and it's not going in their pocket, but they have access to the best facilities and the best education and the best people, they pursue it there because that's, they're what they're passionate about. Is it true that Stanford and Apple are working together? Oh yeah, I mean, everyone's in, I mean, Samsung is working with Apple, right? There's labs from Stanford that are in Apple, Apple's labs that poach through the Stanford. I mean, engineering at Stanford I think is probably, MIT and Stanford are probably one too, depending on whether you're going like electrical or mechanical or CS or anything like that. It just, you identify, I mean, it's like anything, right? Like they're talking about either medicine or engineering or something, but they're passionate about it. Because like if you're passionate about money, it's like, I can't really resonate with that, but like they're actually passionate about the outcome, not the income and it's like. That's what I found when I've trained a lot of surgeons and my old gym used to be next to Good Samaritan. Oh yeah, just have like South Baskham there. Yeah, so I used to train a lot of surgeons and doctors and when they come in and I work with them, I just, most of them didn't even drive like super nice cars. They drove like a regular Honda. One of my guys who was a vascular surgeon, very successful drove a Nissan Pathfinder that had like 150,000 miles. They just not into it, but they're super, super smart people really passionate about what they do and many of them volunteered every year they would volunteer hours, like the one of the doctors without border and stuff like that. Yeah, they don't go overseas. So I just gained such a respect for people in that field because of that, because I always thought of doctors as, now I've worked with plastic surgeons, a little different. Plastic surgeons tend to be a little bit different. I know it's a stereotype, but yeah, the surgeons I worked with like that. Yeah, it just seems like, I mean, it's just altruistic. Like even in the technical field, their goal is to like improve humanity where I think some of these major companies in the Silicon Valley that people identify with, like how many people I saw when I worked at Apple that had Apple tattoos on them? Shut up. Oh yeah, dude, 100%. And like I'm talking everything, yeah, I mean, but I don't want to pick on Apple probably because they have a mean legal team. Yeah. I mean, everything from... We like iTunes. Like, hey, there you go. Shout out. Apple, Facebook, Google, and it's funny, like we talked about like sex of like, you know, you can tell the difference between an Instagram or a YouTuber or a podcast. I can tell the difference between someone that works at Cisco and someone that works at Facebook and someone that works at Google and someone that works at Apple or someone that works at Stanford. I think they're all building their own, you want to go back to conspiracy theories, I think they're all building their own ecosystems, their own... Oh, 100%. Yeah. That's what we're watching happen right now here in the Silicon Valley. Yeah, they're building these huge... Soon. Have you seen the new spaceship? Dude, did you know? Yeah, dude, right? Crazy. Mental. I wouldn't be surprised if one day I'm coming out of like the whole... Yeah, exactly. I've been thinking that since day one. Yeah, this is just... I've been coming out of a hole for like, I guess I wasn't on the ship. Yeah, no, it's... Two, like, especially local in the area, having Tesla, that's scary. Tesla and PayPal. I've heard whispers that he's behind Bitcoin. So I've heard that, because they don't really know who created it. Yeah. Let's talk about cryptocurrency. Fuck. Okay, I'm so scared. So I bought, right? So I'm on the Litecoin train right now and looking at XRP because I've... Before, I thought that we were going to see these Facebook, Google, Apple, these communities, right? So hang in there and pay attention to where I'm going with this. There's gonna be, within Apple, there's gonna be some of the best doctors in the world. There's gonna be the best movie theaters, the best grocery stores. You're gonna have all that within. And then on there, you can use Apple Points to purchase all this stuff. Sure. How is that different than Apple Pay? You have the 10, I know you do, because you said me talking poo emojis now. Fuck. But like, how easy is the Apple Pay? Their best feature, the single best feature. I blew so much money the last three weeks since I got the phone. It's fucking insane how easy it is. It's too easy. It's developing new currency. Yeah, yes. Because it's like now, because Venmo is PayPal. Right, yeah. But those are still dollars. Yeah, but it's the first step to a better, more efficient, the dollars just continually decline. So I'm reading a good book right now called The Bankruptcy of Our Nation. And it just gets in. Oh, you're in my house now. Oh, bro, I love this shit. So, well, and if you look at history and all of their fiat money over the... Oh no, don't start talking like that, bro. You're gonna make me go off. Dude, let's go. I can see the Illuminati triangle coming out of it. Well, you gotta explain what a fiat currency is. Right, so it's based off of, it's not backed, right? So if you can't back it by gold, you can't back it by something. So it's basically, it's not... Yeah, the US is made up. It's a fake value. The dollar is paper. Well, it's backed by the government. It's backed by our military. It's actually what really backs us, what really backs the US dollar now is the petrodollar, is the fact that all oil, the major OPEC nations, the OPEC nations of the world will only sell their oil for US dollars, which is what protects our dollar. If they were to drop that and start using other currencies or start using gold or stuff like that, the dollar would collapse, which is, there's a lot of conspiracy theories as to why we went into Libya, which we hated Libya for a long time, but it wasn't until they decided to, to start creating their own gold-backed securities that we went in there and fucked them up or how JFK was gonna create, have the US government mint its own money that was silver and not the Federal Reserve and then he got popped and all these, you could go down the rabbit hole with this kind of shit. Well, cryptocurrencies, in my opinion, is it has to be, and we're seeing the evolution of it like with like you're saying Apple Pay, it's becoming to the point and if you looked at the evolution of money, right? We started off with like tangible things that we would trade like gold, right? Like if I wanted to go buy something of a lot of value, I'd have to carry all this gold and give it to people. Well, that became ridiculous after a while, right? So it's like, okay, so now we come up with coins and then the coins go turn into paper money. So now when I wanna buy something that's worth $10,000, it's just a little tiny little stack so I can carry that, it's more, so what's the next evolution to that is not having to carry anything being completely safe and protected, like cryptocurrency, and be able to say like you and I would be talking right now and be like, hey, I like those shoes. Oh, I like those shoes too. I'll give you 50 bitcoins for that. Oh yeah, okay, cool. Look at your phone, boom, done. Now give me your shoes. Well then that's the problem is every time you move a deviation away from that gold standard, money becomes less valuable to people as far as like, think of a casino. That's why you walk in and get chips because it's like, oh yeah, fuck, I don't need this plastic thing. I've never seen this before. There you go, yeah, I'll throw a thousand on black or whatever, where it's like, every time now we're deviating towards that, it's like, it wasn't so easy to be like, I don't, I kind of like Sal's shoes better. If I wanted Sal's shoes, I'd be like, he's got the black socks on today, I want everyone to hear that. I'm rocking white. Yeah, I would do it. But it's like, I wouldn't think to pull out my wallet and give Sal and have some sort of bartering system, but if I just had to go on my phone and be like, hey, Sal, he's nice 12. Here's the deal with cryptocurrencies. The deal is the reason why, first and foremost, we don't know what created them. It's an algorithm that will never inflate because it always produces less and less bitcoins as it goes along. The reason why it became popular, let's be honest, is because you could purchase things with bitcoins in ways where they cannot trace you. So if you go to the dark web or where people are buying like the, what was it, the, what was that website that got shut down? Silk Road. Silk Road. People buy drugs and stuff with, was there a lot of laundering of money through Bitcoin? A lot of guys that have bought drugs with cash. Yeah. But not online. Sure. That's the way, now, now people are doing like. That's not true. Yes, you do. Yeah, I mean. So online, online, it is very difficult to trace or track somebody who uses a cryptocurrency versus using dollars or money. Now here's the thing though. It's moving to, how are you, how are you not, I can't believe you're not all the way on the train because to me, it's what's moving us back into like a free market. Well, no, hold on. How do they maintain the scarcity of it? Hold on. Well, hold on. There's a way to do that. So Bitcoin, there's only 20. You can't create. There's only, yes you can. You kiss you can. If you don't create more, there's 22 million Bitcoins available. So it will have a ceiling in it. So, and if it does go where it's going, speculate on the value of one single coin. Yeah, they'll go down into fractions and you'll buy, you'll end up using like a, you know, one-tenth of one. Right, right, right. Exactly, but imagine somebody right now to invest in one of those like, so major, major cryptocurrencies right now. If you just, like, I've urged people that, listen, if you've got 300, 400 bucks to throw at a litecoin or one of these ones that are only 300 or 400 for a single one, buy one, buy one and hold on to it because if this goes where it's gonna go, the fact that there's gonna be only 22 million in circulation means that, and we will create the value of it as, are there more than 22 millionaires, 100 millionaires out there? Absolutely. That would say, I'd give a million dollars to have one. Here's my problem with Bitcoin. Right now, people buying it, most people are hoarding it. So people who are buying it and investing it. Yeah, they're not even like doing commerce with it. They're hoarding it. Well, no, there's been houses that didn't purchase with Bitcoin yet. Really? They're have, they're have, hold on a second. Right now, you see a lot of hoarding. That's gotta be just recently. It could very well, and a lot of people speculate that it was created by governments to track illegal transactions. So you think I can't be tracked online buying shit with this? I've heard that conspiracy. But besides that, besides that, right now a lot of people are buying it to speculate on it, not to buy it as a currency and they're sitting on it. Which means the value of it has been inflated like crazy. So you gotta be careful. Oh, what I think is there's gonna be, there's gonna be 50 of them, a hundred of them, different cryptocurrencies. It's blockchain is the technology. Cryptocurrency is just like a, it's another type of using it. So I think like, let's say for example, You'll have competing currencies. Yes, exactly. Let's say Amazon decides to accept, which there's rumors around Amazon accepting Bitcoin. So Amazon starts to accept, that becomes their cryptocurrency. Well then Apple decides to partner with, you know, Litecoin or someone, and there's gonna be I think a hundred of them and they'll all create and we'll- Have you heard about that one that actually, you trade gold, so it still has a bit of a gold standard feel, but like your gold is capped somewhere. Yes. Yeah, I have heard about that. If you can actually trade through e-commerce, you can trade the gold real-time. The rights to the gold is in a vault. So you have a tangible thing at the end of the day. It's like going back to the old days, that's how blacksmiths- I like that idea just because like, you can always- Or golds, sorry. You know, it's like a tangible thing that still exists, which I think people are always afraid of just having nothing but like numbers. I just think it's the natural progression of what we've seen for so many years. We've seen this natural evolution of like how, why has currency changed over the last, hundred plus year over, why is it changed like that in the first place? That's gonna disrupt governments. Yeah, because money is trust. Currency is trust, right? And I know some of the kids that, they smoke way too much dope, stay way up way too late on YouTube. They haven't bought into this. And if these fucking guys end up getting power because they bought a lot of Bitcoin, the world is gonna- Oh no. The very fact that like, you know, Bezos- That's when we want AI to come in and clean. Yeah, exactly. But it's like the fact that Bezos is thinking about like, or rumors that Bitcoin, good, good, we need them to have money because they're smart people. I trust that they are gonna make the right, if they get some financial ancillary kickback in doing so, and he's, you see he was like the first guy to break a hundred bill, a couple of like last month or something. It's the big race to be a trillionaire, right? That's the big race. Is that what it is? Yeah, the big race is really close. The big race between the four. So the four being Facebook, Facebook. Google. Apple. Apple. And Amazon. Amazon. Oh, crazy. I got a quote for you. The trillion cash is the race right now. I got a quote for you. Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes its laws. That was Rothschild, who said that quote years ago, decades ago. This is, or excuse me, over two centuries ago or I think in 1700s. The people who are gonna freak out the most over this kind of stuff are these major, like Federal Reserve. Yeah. Central banking is one of the, has performed some of the worst evils of all time. And they're the ones that stand to lose the most with something like this. But that's the way everything's going. Expect if this shit actually starts to threaten. There'll be a war over it. It's not threatening anything right now. Because when it does, you better believe some shit's gonna go down and it's not gonna be pretty. Well, either that or what you'll see is when you, and that's when you better be racing to the bank to be getting on it yourself, is when the banks start investing in it. When the banks actually start taking their money and going, we better hedge our bets here and buy up some of this shit. So we're not standing there with our fucking, our dicks on our hand. Well, yeah, that's what kind of happened with when they were hedging their bets on the real estate thing. When that crashed in 2008. I don't know. I think it's very interesting. I think when you look at history, we didn't even talk about all the other failed currencies, all the other countries and nations that had currencies. Yeah, currencies will fail eventually. All of them do. So it's literally, it's not a matter of... The collapse of the dollar is, some economists will say, is one of the, is the biggest threat to the sovereignty of our nation is the collapse of the dollar. Well, I mean, everything is moving decentralized. Like the Whole Foods is, or even like fucking Chipotle. Like when they got into like, you know, they were dishing out Salmonella burritos for like a year. But I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure what they were attempting to do was they were attempting to locally source for a chain across the country. So they weren't doing the due diligence on quality assurance because they just couldn't manage the logistics of going to each one of these farms. But they were attempting to locally source their produce and their meat from local to that particular franchise. So it's like a fairly noble pursuit that kind of felt flat for a little bit. Although I'll still go to Chipotle if I'm hungry, but I think decentralizing and like, which is weird because I still remember being in the sixth grade and we have classical, I don't know if you guys have social studies. So yeah, social studies. And we talked about globalization and like how crazy globalization, and to see that in my lifetime, as short as it's been, pretty much almost be totally like converted. Anything and everything that can be decentralized is becoming decentralized. Which is why I feel like you would think would agree more with the crypto currencies. Oh no, I'm not disagreeing. I think the future is in competing currencies. It has to be. I'm just saying right now what you're seeing with Bitcoin is a lot of fervor, a lot of people speculating, and I see a major crash coming before. Why I think here. I see a correction. Okay, it does have the signs of something that exists in a bubble. Well, and this is why too though, because right, and what you're seeing right now. So Bitcoin has become like the Kleenex of blowing your nose, right? Tissue paper. I get what you're saying. So it doesn't mean it's the best. And it's not the best. And that's why- It's the most known. Yes, it's the most popular, the most well known because it's got the most publicity. But there's already other crypto currencies that are coming up that are showing that they have less heirs, that it's more efficient. And that's where, so it's really like trying to bet on the right horse that's gonna get picked up by something like Amazon or someone huge like that. And right now there's all this speculation around Bitcoin being accepted by Amazon. But the reality may be it may be a cryptocurrency none of us even heard of, or they may get the blockchain technology themselves and create it for all we fucking know. I don't know, but I'm very fascinated in cryptocurrency. And I think it's around the corner for us sooner than we think. And I know it's weird to say it, but this whole like iPhone X experience for me has really got my brain spinning around that way because I'm not kidding like- Cause the immediate transaction. Yes, let me have to pay attention to. But you can't stop the decentralization that's at. You just can't. There's nothing you could do to stop it. I mean, they try to, net neutrality was a good idea like right for them to try and slow down or stop, you know, this fucking explosion. See this fucking brick thing on that? Yeah. What a dumbass. What a dumbass. That's what it said. Sal did a post on that. Oh did you share that? Yeah, he did a post on that on our forum. They're trying to get their hands on stopping this decentralizing effect. They're trying to get their hands on being able to regulate things. But the problem is that legislators can't legislate as faster than the technology can advance. They just can't do it. So even if net neutrality was still a thing, even if the government was regulating all these phone lines and now they can, now they have their hand on the controls, technology is going to come out with another way to deliver the internet. Well, it's the motivation to progress is always going to be greater. Like look at drugs and sports. There'll always be drugs in the Olympics as long as the motivation of someone like that study. Oh fuck, I forget what it's called. But it's like, if you ask 90% or 95% Yeah, I would. Yeah, if you were going to die. Five years. That's right, I saw that. If you gave you an Olympic gold, take something that'll kill you in five years. I think that was on Icarus. I think that was in Icarus. Oh, was it? I think it was in Icarus where they talk about, I saw the same, I read the same study. They said, if you ask somebody that this would kill you, if you get gold medal, but it's going to kill you in five years. Absolutely. It was crazy. Yes, like almost all of them said yes. And it's like, that's the same mindset of human nature that's just being applied in a different arena. Again, where it's like, yeah, the motivation of someone to be liberated away from centralized governments and from regulation and to be able to buy. And again, it's like, you know, I'm not going to go buy a kidney off some with Bitcoin. I could. And it's nice to think that if I need it someday. I think that's the only way you can. Yeah. But it's like, I just think that like, the big brother mentality is it's been around for so long that it's on its way out and the people are just clawing to the last grips of control. But once that switch is over, once the money goes, everything goes. Yeah, there's scramble going on. Well, I just think what's to stop a company like Apple, who gets all the things that I say where you have the best doctors, the best of everything, what is to stop them from saying, okay, let's say the average salary of an Apple employee right now, let's just say for argument's sake, is $150,000 a year. What is to stop Apple by devaluing the dollar themselves by saying, nobody makes more than $50,000 a year, but we're going to scale you up through Apple points. And it makes total sense for you as an employee to take 200,000 Apple points because if that is, if you can use those Apple points to go to the doctor, to go to the grocery store, to go to the movies, to go do your, if they've created a little world like that. That's how they'll skirt around the laws and make sure they pay you minimum wage but then everything else is Apple points. You know, it's funny, it's good. I mean, it's going to be crazy but I'll take it a step further. I'll take it a step further. I don't think the future is going to have major super powerful corporations either. I don't. I think companies like Apple, Google, you know, you name it, Facebook, whatever. I think these companies, when patents become obsolete, excuse me, when patents become obsolete, which they will be at some point soon, it's going to be obsolete to patent something because there's going to be technology for people to just replicate it on their own. You're going to see major decentralization of wealth as well. That's like the last remaining bureaucracy. That's it. That's it. When I can copy your music, I can copy your movies, I can copy your clothes, I can copy your technology just because I have the technology to do that. Now, who's going to have all the money? Who's going to make, you know, billions or trillions of dollars? It's going to be very different. Well, at that point, we might as well all be robots because all the things you mentioned required creativity, which is something that's so unique to like the human experience that it's like, well, fuck, I don't want to live in that world anyways. You might as well just pull a 38 to my head right now and end it. Because it's like, fuck that, man. I think we're, I think you're going to see, I think you're going to see both free up time to be both kind of worlds existing. And I think that Facebook, Facebook will provide its own ecosystem. And just like you're seeing like the wars. You're already on campus at Facebook. I don't think it, no, I haven't. Dude, it's like Disney World. They're already doing this. Like with like corporate housing and stuff, it's like they're already trying to keep it with. They're going to have their own armies. So, and I don't think it's going to be like that. I don't think it'll be like, but I think it'll be tribal, tribal to the point where it's like, my camp's better than your camp. But I don't think it'll be causing wars or fights. It'd be like, listen, if you want to come join our group, you can come join our group. If you want to be in your group, you can join your group. Well, yeah, but I mean, think of how many people, and this is a very Silicon Valley centric conversation because I mean, I drive past Google to get to my office. I've worked in the confines of Apple and I currently work in the confines of Stanford. And there are bubbles within bubbles within bubbles. And it's like, that's all well and good for this like the geographical radius of the South Bay. But what about the people that don't work? Like what about the Midwest? What about the heavily armed people who might not be getting the call to go on the spaceship? And this is why I think they'll be still, you know? Yeah, but how are they gonna sector? How are they gonna feel when there's like this utopian society on the other end of this shiny gate? And that's the thing. It's like when you create that level of disparity, whether it's a government that's doing it, whether that's an institution that's doing it, those, you don't want to be the people with that. Like you don't want to be the people with. That's if you have tyranny and oppression, but if companies do operate in a market where they, and they do succeed because they're serving the consumer, everybody benefits. So you go through some of these, like we're in Silicon Valley, but you drive through the Midwest, everybody has an iPhone, everybody's on tech and stuff like that. So I don't think that's as big of a, I honestly think the decentralization is gonna get to the point where you're not gonna have people who have tons and tons and tons of money, look at music. If you look at music right now, it's hard now to make a shit ton of money in music because people buy individual songs and they don't know. But it's already changing and it was interesting listening to Billy Corrigan talk about this, like the shift of everything going now to streaming. It's like it's now, what happened was a lot of the, the big record companies, they sort of hedged their bets. And so what they did to get around it was to buy a lot of the equity into these streaming businesses. So they still have a hand in it with their artists, but now it's finally like it's making money on that end. So more people are into the streaming, for the monthly dues where they're actually making profit again. For the consumer, it's better. For the consumers, way better. It is, and you know how the artists are getting, fuck. You know how artists are making money now? Concerts, old school. They had to go back like they did back in the day. They're making the money off of concerts now. Movies are going that way. Look, I was at the movies the other day. I was watching Star Wars and two of the commercials. Netflix probably. One was Netflix and one was Amazon Prime. Right, no way. Yeah, dude, for a movie that they're making. So this is why it's good that the net neutrality thing got shot down too because real soon here, and I was telling Katrina this because she was asking all about it, like, well, why is it so good? It's not, well, think of it this way. Real soon here, Amazon, Netflix, we're gonna be able to be sitting at home and the new Will Smith Netflix come out. And instead of me having to go down to the theater for $5.99, I could stream it right to my house. It's all gonna be like that. And I get to see a blockbuster movie get delivered to my bedroom with instantaneously. Do you not? I mean, I can buy shit on Amazon. And in the holidays I have. I've literally sat in Valley Fair trying to get a fucking parking spot the past two weeks. And in waiting for a spot, went on Amazon, bought the shit I was gonna buy in the fucking cell phone and went home. But it's like, don't you worry about the lot. I mean, you guys, social interaction is the business. But it's like, I like going places and talking to people. And I find even as everyone's buried in their phones all the time, even going out and trying to interact with people who are in that digital space is making it harder for me to even wanna go out. And then it's like this compounding cycle. I think people still wanna do that. I think people wanna do that, but I think it's gonna change. I think you're gonna see showrooms. You're gonna go to Amazon showroom. You're gonna go to, you know, and it's gonna be different experience. I think we're in the middle of seeing the pendulum swing right now. And it's not all the way to the edge yet. And so that's why we all kind of feel this way. Cause I agree with you, but I also think this is why I tell people, like if you wanna invest in something right now, invest in the fucking massage places, the meditation places, the yoga places, all that. Because those places, they've been around forever. That's been around for thousands of years, all that shit, right? Folk tank didn't just come around. But why are we seeing it on the rise right now? It's because people are starting to realize like human connection, being detached from all these electronics and being present is gonna become important again. But what do all these things that you just listed on the list off a few more having common now is that they carry with it a social capital, right? Ice cream museum in San Francisco. Have you seen pictures of people at this? Oh, it's basically create physical space so you can share your experience online. What? Explain this. Okay, no. Explain yourself. It's kind of the ice cream museum is something that I've just seen a lot where it's like this thing doesn't need to exist. I can buy fucking ice cream everywhere, but they have this, it's like 25 bucks to enter or something like that. I haven't gone cause I feel, I'm just diametrically opposed to the entire idea behind it because I see the forest for the trees. I see exactly what they're doing. They're creating, I mean, every room, there's like, I don't know how many rooms, but like you get ice cream and you walk around. It's like, yeah, sure. I can just go to the ice cream store and get that. But no, at the ice cream museum, there's like very colorful rooms and it's basically made for every room to be an Instagram friendly picture taking experience so you can help bolster your social capital. That it's like you are only, you're literally living your life for the grand. Feed me your social currency. Exactly. But I mean, how, how is that any, so now here you have a self-perpetuating marketing model based purely off the fact that you've woven in a bolstering social capital. So you think you're gonna see that in those types of businesses? I think it's, I think I'm spending my night how to like days and nights trying to figure out how to do that with my own businesses is how to like, you know, think of like the red carpet events where like people have- No, no, you're right. We've already talked about that here. I mean, one of the things that we wanted to do was we're gonna make a wall for like when a guest like yourself comes in and you get like a shirt and then you get to pick up pictures for your Instagram. Gems are a classic example of that, right? Like we, I was a culture cast, Zoo's got the big zoo thing. It's like, oh, I took a picture of the zoo thing or it's like, think of cities, right? Like I take a picture with like the bowl with the big testicles or like the giant silver bean in Chicago. It's like these landmark places that exist so you can only go to share them with your friends online. I was really there. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, but it's, to me, it's such a, it's so, people don't realize that that's what they're getting hooked into. Yeah, but you gotta tell me how you think that's gonna tie into a massage clinic or a float tank. The ones that are gonna do, well, that's the thing. I didn't start hearing about these float tank things until like the people I followed went down this road and started doing it. So like, you know, the float tanks, they light up in their blue or this one's green and they're in a room with like bamboos. So he's saying instead of going there to unplug, you're going there and you're plugging in. To plug in, exactly. But that's the brilliance of it. And like, that's, I really, I relish in the experience of being in places where there's no identifying criteria that I could take a picture and it's just me in a place. Like people don't know what you're doing. Well, I mean, I always double back. I mean, I'm very gym-centric in my life. It's like I live and work inside of many a gym. Just, and now just fucking started working at another, open an office in another gym. And so I look at very much the Instagram culture as it, you know, it's, it's my business. It's part of my life. It's lifting culture. It's all that. And like one thing that really started to irk me was like these very insta-famous gyms, like Barbell Brigade and nothing against Barbell Brigade. I think it's an awesome facility. Bart Kwan's the wicked. He's really puts out together something special and it wasn't until I visited that I realized that, but it's a massive, the whole wall says the name of the gym where I train. There's an orange squat rack. And if you squat, that's where you squat in. There's not a single thing that says, but it's the work that's been done in that orange squat rack that might as well be the best graffiti spray. And that's what I like things to be known for, where it's like, give me tangibles. Don't just give me like, oh, look how cool this looks. Look how cool this looks at the fucking ice cream museum or whatever. It's like, you're not doing anything. You're just, you're just petty dick slapping and you're putting money into the pockets of the people who conjured up this. And I think with that specific example, that was very much a conscious choice. Like, all right, this is, they're in a war room. This is what we're going to do. It's like literally like, it's how you lure children places. Ice cream. We are getting the back of my windowless van. Take a picture and put it on Instagram and tell everyone how awesome my windowless van is. I don't know. It's just, it's a really, when you sit down and you think about the inundation. Yeah, with the inundation of technology into your life and how much it affects you, whether like consciously or like subliminally, it's like, fuck, you lose sleep at night over it. You know, I want to believe in humanity more. I want to believe that we're smarter. Right now I feel like a lot of people are being duped by, you know, the social media and being able to put this facade on and drawing people that way. But I'd like to think that when we see ourselves becoming so connected. So for example, like... We have a short memory, dude. That's the problem. I have caught myself in the last three years since we have now built a business that obviously thrives off of social media platforms and without it we would probably be dead. I have now watched myself go from being a guy who didn't give two shits about Facebook, didn't do any of that stuff, never was on it, never, ever was on it, I actually have to monitor myself on how much I can consume of it. And at what point is it, am I doing work? And then at what point am I starting to consume, right? And I brought up before that they say the next, the new scrolling is the new smoking. Where you... I fucking hate that. Can we stop comparing shit to smoking? Like the sitting is the new smoking thing. Right, right, right. But no, I get it. Yeah, but the point is that what happens is you just get caught up and you don't realize, you know, you start off, you try it one time, then you have two, then you have three, the next thing you are, you're a chain smoker. And that's the idea, the comparison of it is that you start off justifying it because you need to do it for business reasons. The next thing you know, you're so plugged in, you can't even get away from your phone for more than four or five hours in a day. And how unhealthy is that? And then I like to think that right now a lot of people aren't putting that together because there's not a lot of people talking about it because we're all talking about how great all this technology is. But I think that pendulum will swing also. And I think people will start to realize okay, this whole facade of the ice cream museum and the go to the float tank and take pictures and stuff like that, maybe that's what's happening right now. But in the future, I think people will realize like if you want it to actually make an impact on your life and actually truly do what it's supposed to do, which is get you become more present, then you're going to have to disconnect. So I don't know, I want to believe that eventually we'll go that way. Well, it's what, technology is a good tool but a better master, right? That's kind of the end game there. It's, I don't know, like you said, it's inevitable. But I think the big thing with the scrolling is being able to check yourself and look at something before you post it and be like, is that what I want to sound like versus is that what I sound like, right? The auto correct and the edits you can make to like your perceived intention in the world where it's like, it's when the rubber hits the road and you're face to face with someone and you got like you're in a job interview or you're on a date or you're saying something and you can't like text like, no, like should I send the eggplant emoji? Man, maybe it's not the time. You know what I mean? Where it's like, I don't know, it's just the dissonance between who you are online and who you are in person. Yeah, I think it's two different people. It is, it is. I had a lot of, you know, this was tough for me. When I first started Instagram, I was doing a lot of what I knew would get traction. And for me, that was being in the men's physique world and taking these pictures of myself, you know, shirtless in the mirror and doing all the stuff to, and I remember that I built a pretty large following with that and I became this guy and I do not identify with bodybuilders. That's not, because I did it, doesn't mean that I identify with it. I did it because I saw the opportunity for me to gain all this traction. So I had a really hard time kind of breaking free of that. Like that's not just me. But even now, like your orders of magnitude more successful now because they mean that put your foot in the door, but the fact that now you pursue a passion and something that is in line with one to one with what you want to do now, then you're seeing real success in my opinion. I think a lot of people, they get a taste and whether they're doing the men's physique and a lot of people do a lot of things for the gram or for YouTube or whatever. And it's like, until you that aligns with what your real passion is, I don't think you'll ever be successful. I agree. Yeah, and I think a lot of people just floating around, you know, the popular pages of the people that have, you know, a couple tens of thousands or a hundred thousand followers on Instagram. Oh, I think otherwise you become like the one hit wonder, right? Sure, yeah. That's a good way to look at it. I mean, we've already done interviews and met people that have got like millions of followers. And I think like, and they did it around like one way. And for example, and not knocking zoo culture or what he's done over there, but he has definitely attached himself as this guy who does all this crazy stuff. And it's like, I'm expecting every time I tune into my Instagram that he's gonna do something cool. Like he's gonna flip a car over or he's gonna do a squad on a fucking tricycle thing. Like I'm looking for, you'd now become almost like Your typecast. Yeah, a slave to your audience or else your business doesn't thrive. Like that's scary, you know, for. Yeah, and I think that's the nice thing about this podcast is how many people thought that when they're gonna tune into this episode and they're gonna see my name and they're not gonna think that we're gonna talk big, big coin and fucking like, we barely touch any biomechanics stuff at all. And I think when you can become more than the sound bites that exist of you online, I think that's when you gain like a real presence because you're a real person. You're not just beholden to the image you've put out unless the image is laid out. There's layers, there's, you know, people have depth and I feel like, I hate that. I hate that when we only, like we only portray this one sort of surface image of ourselves. It's like, come on, do you people are way more complex than that? You'd like to think so. Yeah, well, yeah. Or even not, like say the, you know, I think there's a, I'm fucking probably pulling this from Ferris, dammit. Where it's like you want to appeal and whether you do this consciously or not at the successful people, like your podcast comes to mind more so than probably any other is appeal to 10% of your audience. That make that be your focus. Whether again, it's you're sitting down in a war room and you're consciously making the decision that this episode is gonna be like this and this is the topic we're gonna go and we're gonna cover fermented foods and all the people that are into the nutrition are gonna like it and then next week we'll make a hard switch into the training or then we'll do like a funny episode where it's like you guys just flow and the stuff comes out and you catch the 10% inadvertently because of that 10% those people, that's their mantra, that's their guiding light. They don't really, and like you said, you like to think maybe people have some more depth that maybe they don't, but maybe they just want to hear and then you guys can introduce them to the fringes and every 10 episodes or so you'll come back to the fermented foods you'll come back to the training. We're trying to build a brand based on us just talking about what we want to talk about. And the reason why we want to do that is because we can do that forever. So we're not gonna fuck ourselves. Seriously, seriously. Now that you've been podcasting you're in fucking three different facilities. You're at Stanford, you're all over the place. Do you even have very much time to tune into any podcast or are you still, what podcast? Oh yeah, I mean, I can meet a lot. You guys are, you guys are on the top. I QA our own podcast, so I'll listen to our stuff. Malcolm Gladwell's Revisionist History, I've probably listened to top to bottom. I was a huge fan. His storytelling is just his way of connecting the dots. I've never listened to that. Oh, it's a good podcast. From the quality to the choreography of the whole thing, he's one of my favorite writers. Yeah, no, I haven't traveled a favorite, so I've been listening to a lot. I mean, I'll tune into Rogan depending on the guests. It gets a little, you know, psychedelics, psilocybin, whatever. I kind of heard it once. I kind of feel like that's what a lot of those, that whole group of guys are all kind of talking about. Jiu-Jitsu and fucking psychedelics, it's like, I don't know. Which I'd like to talk about that. I do, it's interesting to me, but I feel like there's more, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I'm trying to think, what else? Who do I listen to? I'll just go like, I mean, I like to keep it in the fitness space. And just to see the contrast of what's out there, like, I mean, Greenfield, I'll listen to. Beep-Pack, I'll tune into that. The muscle-up where one gets, I mean, that scratches a nerd itch in me, just like hearing different approaches. I'm trying to think. Yeah, those are probably the top ones right now. If you really want to go information heavy, I could try, found my fitness, Dr. Rhonda Patrick. Oh, okay. She goes deep. Yeah, I've heard her on a couple of podcasts. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you wanna challenge her vocabulary and stuff like that, and just what you're looking for, I feel like she's so... Smoking mirrors? No, no, no, no, no, no. No, she's the shit. Like, I like her. She's deep, bro. She's a son. She talks. But it's like, if you, for me for podcasting, like I would just like you said, like I want to be entertained someone. I want to enjoy the conversation just for the conversation purposes. Sure, that's why I said if it's deep, it's well learned. And then I want to pick... Yeah, exactly. Like, I feel, maybe if I was like in school at that time going through like a degree in the related field, I would eat her podcast up because I just want to be consuming info, but it's like, I don't know. You know what, I think the wife's been listening to that. Yeah, yeah, I remember driving up from SoCal like last month and that's exactly what it was. Oh, Jug Life. Chad Wesley Smith. I think him and Max, they had to do a pretty good job. A very, very fitness centric, but entertaining nonetheless. And I think our episode comes out like next month. So shame was plugged in when it comes out. Like I even found it. Just kind of here, let me not so suddenly just drop that in there. But no, that's what's pretty good. I really like to keep it kind of in the powerlifting space to keep my finger on the pulse of things. What are you learning yourself like through this whole process? I mean, I love getting a chance to talk to you because I get to talk to you before you started. Now you're doing it and I think you do a great job. I also think you're an intelligent guy who gives good information, you got good guests. Now, what are you learning about the business? That's different, man. It's really like, it's just the range. You just realize like how insignificant the fitness space is, I think. And how, I mean, it should be significant to everyone because it's, I mean, it's the foundation and fundamentals of people that are leading the charge as far as becoming healthy, find better ways to get healthy. But it's just so insignificant in the grand scheme of things when you look at the podcasts that are rising to the top. I mean, look at it this way. Like if you went fishing, you'd put a worm on a hook, but if you were trying to catch me, you'd be better off with like a donut or like a protein shake or something. And I think that's walking a fine line of where you're willing to go as far as being palatable to a broader audience, but also staying true to your own value set. What a great point. So that to me has been just interesting, but also too, like not being limited. Like we did one with Brett Contreras and me and Brett have had like instant knife fights online. There's video evidence of me and it's going up on our YouTube channel. I don't know when, whenever I put it up. There's video evidence of me doing a hip thrust with Brett Contreras, which, but like you meet him and you talk to him and you put the swords away. He closed you. Yeah, honestly. He's like, all right, all right, all right. But it's like, I should think just, and it was like, I don't know, I was hard headed. I was honestly, and I still am to some extent resentful of people who in my opinion, and not saying that this is Brett at all, but people who were successful in the fitness industry who like, you know, they were just selling protein shakes online or whatever, like who didn't have the steel in the walls. I'm like, what the fuck, man? Like this guy's making this much on his YouTube channel. Like here I went to school like an asshole. Like, and you know, you try and be a jack of all trades. And there's one guy that has like a catchphrase that makes a lot of money. And it's like, just put your swords away. And that's the one thing I kind of learned was like, if you just kind of approach people and be a little bit more open minded, like that Brett, I was a little worried. He's not small. He's like six, four. He's like a pretty imposing guy. And I was like, man, maybe this guy's just gonna like invite me to his glute lab and like we're just gonna duke it out. They're like super inviting, super friendly suit. I probably like, it was a little bit more on the nerdy side of things. And I just booty clapped me. And I like tested him on a few things. Like I called out one of his research articles that I thought was flawed and we like had it out, but it was very professional. Oh, cool. Yeah. So I think just that allowing for like a free and open discussion between people with opposing viewpoints and it's okay to disagree with people. Yes, absolutely. And I think a lot of people, once ego gets involved, it's like, we've had some video evidence this morning of what happens when ego gets involved. And it's like, listen, everyone present their case and then it's Darwinism. Like let's see what rises to the top. And that's what I really like about podcasting is my favorite thing in sports of all time is when Michael Tyson used to come out for his title fights. You know what he used to wear? He used to take the hotel towel and cut a hole. Oh, that's right. He put it on his neck. The reduced essence of that, like you got to pack you out in Mayweather and these flashy kids and the Conimer Gregor with the fuck you pinstripes. And it's like, you look across the ring and you see that guy coming at you and just rips the fucking towel and puts it over his head. It's not like the Mexican flag and he's not trying to be like incident. Cause he knows like, this guy just said he's gonna eat your fucking children. Are you serious? And I just love that like podcasting that reduced essence of the conversation where it's real. It's just, it's archived. And I think there imagine in history, like if we had this ability to archive conversations because we've been listening. I mean, this is, to me, this is tantamount to like the Gutenberg printing press where it's like you're seeing the ability to have these conversations between these people, whether it's, you know, they're within the same echo chamber or they oppose each other. Like just imagine being a fly on the wall to some of like the great, and you just get third hand documentations of things that have been written, but even just being able to audibly hear it, I think to me is really interesting and that's why I've gravitated. I haven't listened to, I mean, I don't even know where my radio presets are anymore. Cause all, since I've been introduced to this, all I do is listen to podcasts. It's growing. It's growing very quickly and it's a good thing. Yeah, no, for sure. Super sad. Fuck yeah, man. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, always a pleasure having you in here, man. No, I love it. Yeah, yeah, always a pleasure. Absolutely. Check it out. Go to YouTube. We should have some new videos up soon actually with Dr. Jordan. Yeah, we just shot some good videos with him too. Mind Pump TV, subscribe to that channel or Jordan's going to come to your house and punch your face. Boom. He's a big guy. Watch out. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes mats anabolic, mats performance, and mats aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.