 Yeah, how you doing, man? What's happening, buddy? Not much Doing interviews I'm trying to figure out here. Hold on. I'm gonna see something here. All right Where are you at? I'm in Your old stomper grounds, Los Angeles. Are you in LA? Cool. Yeah, it's funny is I've never met you but I've seen you play a million times and Were you at now Vegas? No, no, I'm in California. I'm near Temecula. Oh Oh, yeah, I like what some people call it. Temecula Little mixed up. Yeah, Temecula wine country. Yeah, yeah, man It's so great to see and great to have you on the show, man I've been trying to get on that room looks like like 60s ish That's the mid-century there, buddy. Yeah Are you a Guy into architecture? No, but it just looks really cool. Is that a real? Is that real? Or is that a background? That's a background, but one day it'll be real. I keep it for What do you use to do that background OBS or no, you can just resume you can grab any photo you want and Put it put it into the background. Oh, okay. I gotta try that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you got a cool background. You got drums Those are real too. That's my kid. Is that a studio in your house? Yeah. Oh Man Yeah, it's a big house down here. That's why I'm living down here. It's nice and and the house is a You know fairly new and it's big and Quieter it's quiet till I got here What what is that kid a Ludwig? No, this kid said the company I'm with is called sawtooth beautiful drums and he sound great like That's the name of them Wow, they look beautiful. They are beautiful. They are hickory and The killer sound on them Actually every every Tuesday at 4 p.m. La time I do a live stream from here and I play to some music and I Teach a little bit and tell some stories the whole the whole thing Is that on a patreon or just like freebie? No, it's a freebie on facebook. It's viniapesi official on facebook And every tuesday I've done a hundred this one will be a hundred and seven shows And people like it, you know it goes out And after a week it gets a bunch of hits on it and that the company sponsors it And it's great. Then I answer some questions and stuff and It's a good thing. It's a good show And I got a great drum sound too because I figured out how to tweak it through facebook through mixers and stuff and It's good What's the what's the bass drum size 24? Yeah, that's a 24. I just put new head new heads on a whole kit. That's a 24 And then there's a bass drum subwoofer mic. Yep So there's one inside the bass drum, which is a 91 sure a flat mic And then there's that one that gives it the low end. So you mix them You mix them in there It's cool cool setup You know, I've been seeing you play for years and uh, I've been a big fan of your drumming for years and I had no idea Thank you, uh, I had no idea that you actually played on some linen tracks, man John Lennon. Yeah, well, I didn't play any famous tracks, but what I did was The band I was in at the time and I was like 16 and a half going on 17 Uh, we were managed by the record plant studios in new york city And we had full-home players keyboard players. So it was nine-piece band And our good friend was jimmy ivy some Uh from everything and he, uh Brought us into the record plant and they like roi the owner loved us and Signed us to a management deal gave us a room upstairs on the 10th floor in Manhattan on the record plant So rehearse that was our own room. Well, we were there and it was great because it was free, you know, nothing's free Manhattan. So One night jimmy calls goes can you guys come down and do hand claps? Okay. Yeah, sure. No problem because they didn't have computers So we go downstairs all nine of us we walk in and we fuck we see john lennon go. Oh my god John let it So then we go into in the room. We put the headphones on he's talking to us from the control room And now you're hearing him talking to you After all these years of hearing him and seeing him. I'm like, oh shit So we did hand claps on the song. Whatever gets you through the night So he was telling us what he wanted, you know and uh, and then after that He probably wondered where we came from all of a sudden you got nine people do hand claps So we were upstairs. So then a couple days later. We're rehearsing. He comes in Sits on the step and watches us rehearse And play we played him a couple songs. He really liked the band. You know, the band was good. It was tight and And then he used to come out all the time. We had a pool table up there and play pool with us smoked some joints with them and He asked us to do Well, actually he produced the owner's wife Laurie Burton. She was a singer And we did eight songs with him as producer in the studio It never was released, but he was the producer And then he rewrote a one song we had he rewrote the lyrics for us Which is incredible He did uh, we did three uh, we're on three of his dvds Clips that we shot at the record plant And then he asked us to do a live Gig at the new york hilton and it was going to be broadcast all over the world on you know tv the hobbit and So we did that and we were the That I found out not long ago. That was his last live performance Wow, so you guys backed him live Yeah, and uh, and I had to go to high school the next day He played with a beetle and then he got to go to high school the next day I'd be I'd be in the class and the teacher's trying to teach and like I'm playing So she's gonna wait who's that drumming Vincent stopped that drumming And I would stand up and go. Excuse me. Did anyone else in this room play with one of the beetles last night? And I walked out Ha ha ha man, that is that is just insane to actually play with john lennon at 17 years old I mean right then you just gotta show you let me get the magazine hang on all right I thought it was over there, but it's not somewhere else the magazine that came out about five years ago guitar a fesiano and is a picture of uh lennon and in my band and uh They mentioned him of course and they mentioned me Because I played went on to play with sabbath and all that stuff. So pretty trippy Oh, yeah, that is man that I mean There's only a few people a handful of people that played with a beetle including the beetles, you know Yeah, right I was that was a trip. I was like wow And then high school the next day was total contrast, you know How do you get involved with uh derringer after that band? Of course it breaks up and then you start to play with derringer Uh, I love the sweet evil record Oh cool. Yeah, that's a great. I was listening to today getting ready man driving sideways. It's just such a cool track That danny song That's great. And then uh sitting by the pool this podcast was originally called poolside with dean del ray And that's sitting by the pool track. Just the lyrics just sums up los angeles, you know Well, that's what it was about because we were a new york-based band and and we always said Everybody's kind of laid back in la and they don't like to you know, do much too much And rick thought that too. And that's how we wrote those lyrics, you know, but I got involved with rick because We were at the rick of plant studios. Jimmy ivene recorded us. We did about four Maybe five or six tracks He produced it and then one day rick walked in while he was doing something. He goes Who's that? Who's the who's the drummer? And uh, jimmy said that's vini apathy. Carmine's younger brother I wasn't really no home back in Well, wow and then I ran into him They are too later when he said i'm putting the band together. Give me a number you know and So I gave my number and he called and uh six months later he called And he said he's putting the band together and uh, you know, so I told him about about danny johnson Because I we were in a band together called axis the danny his brother-in-law jay We were together before that too before all this and uh so rick came down And he liked the band and he used danny on guitar And me and we we all flew to new york jay didn't he didn't want jay, but jay wound up playing with farna On their first record putting it together But he they could only pay him 50 bucks a week. He had to leave Which was ironic, you know, and uh So uh That's then we started derring it. So in that record plant studio was the meeting place Everybody was there cheap trick arrow smith jay giles band. We used to see bruce springsteen come off the train And walking with his guitar on his back Into the record plant we were across the street park and we go, hey bruce He don't do it. It was just bruce Yeah, new jersey And I remember seeing him walking in You know when they do it. How you doing? All right good See he was nobody, you know and uh all the people out there was incredible. So that was like a perfect Uh, the right place at the right time all the time When you get into derringer, of course, i'm a huge uh day in the green fan and You know the last led zeppelin show in the united states was in 77 at oakland coliseum Those two nights. It was judas priest Derringer led zeppelin. Do you remember any of that day? I I wasn't there. Damn what happened? well We played with rick for about a year and a half two years And danny and I thought, you know, you know, we're we're making the same money. You know, we're young and in in hurry Let's put axes back together and get a deal do it ourselves And that's what we did rick was pissed off So we left and put the band together got a deal on rca records produced by andy johns a good record. It's called It's a circus world. It's what it's called and uh, so I missed that gig Man that that's a that's an insane to think about what went down at that gig, you know, that's the famous peter grant fight and with the bill grand people and of course, uh, you know, robert plant sun dies and They never play the states again judas priest opens. It's pretty wild. You know At that time, I had robs helpert on and he was talking about how They were just finishing the tour and then priest asked him to play it And they said in this hotel for two weeks because they couldn't afford to fly home and then come back That's old school rock and roll, right? Just like where's the money at? Where's the money? We got to make it work. We got to do that gig, you know Yeah, absolutely Um, it's it's it's also interesting to think about that time in the 70s with people like derringer and rick, uh rick robin trower and You know edgar winner and johnny winner and all these all these guys that were just were massive, you know You know labels would sign guitar players like that and they would become huge Yeah, and we we wound up playing with a lot of big bands. We played, uh Our album came out then we wound up, uh, we played a gig in Connecticut it was called the shabu in And we were headlining and the opener was this band called tom petty and the hot And i'm loving they go what the fuck is a heartbreaker. What what kind of name is that? Yeah, what do I know? And uh, i'm from brooklyn so, uh That and then we wound up opening for boston when they first started playing they didn't even know what to do on stage they used to watch rick And take cues from rick like he's he was a pro rick, you know And we did that we opened for aro smith on a lot of the rocks tour Wow played with fog hat. We played with ten years after I think it was too Yeah, and I was like a kid. I was 18 18 19 years old going Wow going all these places chicago and it was mostly in the states and new york new york california Seattle whatever we were all over the place That would be a weird world for you like all seniors out touring with huge bands and uh, you know going around Did did you guys actually have you know, because sometimes bands at that level didn't have their own texts and stuff Were you doing your own rhodian and stuff or were you you had a good level? Oh, yeah, I don't do that. I don't do that shit anymore Even back then we had two two techs, you know, and they set everything up and then they tore it down Yeah, only one time when I joined black sabbath after a couple of shows, you know 1980 we're playing a big arena We'll get to the gig and they said avenia tech didn't show up My tech was bill wards old tech. So he was Wasn't happy. He was working for me now He was bill's mate So he just went fuck it. I'm leaving and he left and I had to set the drums up in an arena So I set the drums up and then the crew broke them down through them in the cases then we got somebody out immediately after that but The mob rules record, uh, you know for me sabbath is uh the do era. I I just absolutely worship it I saw the mob rules tour also the live evil And the mob rules record to me sign of the southern cross is one of the greatest metal songs of all time And can you give me a little rundown on that? I I I think I heard years ago that You started recording it in a house in to luka lake and that that didn't work And then you went to the studio record plant to do it No, no what we did we had a rehearsal place in uh I think it was might have been van eyes on the edge of to luka lake or something But it was just a studio. I forgot the name of it, but Uh, but we kind of blocked it out for a month, you know, so we'd go in every day probably around two And we jam and I would run the cassette player to record the ideas And then we'd listen we put them together uh And then when we were Ready, we went to the record plant studios in la and recorded the ho album Including the mob rules song Because that was previously recorded for the movie heavy metal right and actually We were on the road for the heaven and the hell part of the tour 1980 And one of brothers wanted us to do a song for the movie heavy metal So we had a two days off or something and We went to john lennon's house where he shot imagine and all those videos where they walked through the garden and his big dinosaur hedge hedges cut his dinosaurs t-rex and all different Dinosaurs so we pull up tearing old. Oh, this is cool and But he had passed, you know, he was Not longer with us at this point and then they gave us keys to the room I get the key. I go up to the room It says john and yoko. I have his room well people But he just died so I was like I don't know if I want to stay in here. You know, I should have it's stupid Sleeping john lennon's room, right? Could have been the same bed. I don't know But that was an amazing experience because we recorded and wrote mob rules there Wow, yeah, and that's what cemented me in the band because Now we have a recording under our belt and it came out great everybody including One of brothers was very excited about how the band sounded a lot of energy and So at that point it was like, oh, I think I'm in the band now for a while, you know and And then every every way you went you open a closet door. There's all this beetle swag fold them Wow platinum albums and Awards and this my god. Look at this Even the sabs were impressed and ronnie You know legends impressed by even bigger legends, you know So that was quite an experience. I wish we had cameras back then. We didn't really You know, he didn't have an iphone or phone or anything. You had to bring a camera so So so lennon still had the studio all set up there even though he had passed and uh, were people using It was it like just a studio up for rent? I think ringo bought it bought the house And the studio was up for rent Wow I guess it was up for rent, but we got in there. But you know, this is a Black Sabbath. So maybe it was just for certain people They can rent it out. You know, i'm not sure That's interesting because when I talked to rob howford about the vocals on Unleashed in the east he said he was so jet lagged that the vocals were terrible So they went to ringo's house and in one Pass he just sang the vocals for the live album there Yeah, that's probably the same house. So that's a couple just heavy metal Masterpieces done in that house that thing's got some good luck charm there man Yeah, and then then you walk around it and you look in the room to open the door There's the white room where he did imagine with yoko He got holy shit, man. Look at this This is insane Absolutely It's it's wild to think about I think that Sabbath once deos in and you're in their course It's just so much more intense and violent especially with tony ioma. His playing is just so much more radical And the sound is like really intense. I mean it's it's so different when you were in there Do you think that tony was uh specifically playing like less bluesy and more radical to up the game of the era that it was Probably and the other thing is I I brought something I think I brought more energy to the band You know, I um I'm a lot younger than than bill was And we also just came off a long tour So we knew how to play together musically and the band uh starting to kick ass once we locked in so when we Started doing this stuff. They never told me don't play anything So that's a signal for me to go and be me and I didn't have to try to Excuse me play like bill because this is new stuff But I had to play like Sabbath make it sound a little darker and more mysterious And uh, that was my attitude, you know, but I definitely brought some new blood to the band and probably energy and and I think you know we tony and I got along really well so Maybe he kicked him into He kicked him in the ass a little bit. I don't know Man, what what a record Also, then later on of course when you come back and you guys are doing the heaven and hell I saw that at the greek I recently watched some footage of it again Uh, I think it was the radio city music hall where you you're playing On that on that Sabbath era is just so intense and incredible. It's just I mean What was uh, what were you looking for like influence wise? What were you bringing to it? Like, okay? I'm going to play different with Sabbath compared to say derringer. How did you you know, what is the frame of mind of that? Well, I got in the frame of mind Of how how tony and geezer played They they played so tight together, you know, they sound like a big wall when they play and different kinds of chords than derringer would play more minor and more odd chords different solos And being that we were on the road for so long that I really got into that vibe of how Tony and geezer sound especially tony, you know, and there'd be certain ways I would do Accents, you know, I wouldn't use the snare so much. I got them back on I would Bass drum and cymbals and make it a little darker and And not pop out or anything like that. So And then I and then I you know, my big influence was Bonham, too And there's some Bonham stuff floating around That album like mob rules that and then it went The mob rules that stop is on And that's something I heard Bonham do when I was young, you know, that's a cool stop instead of stopping bop You go You know, and it stops it just punches it right kicks it right in the ass, you know Yeah, it's got that Achilles last stand, you know driving, you know, just the gallop that the going, you know Yeah, I mean, I just fit in we all fit in together. It's weird. It's like I'm from Brooklyn, New York there from from uh, Birmingham, you know and uh, Ronnie's from new york, but playing with tony geezer that you know We're across an ocean, but we had the same feel once we locked in together You know, how was it working with martin birch? uh, martin birch was uh He was fantastic. He's a very, you know very soft Spoken guy and you know, I let him do his thing I tune my drums accordingly. He might got them all mic'd and he got his sound If you listen to that album the drums sound a little bit like heaven and hell album, you know with that tone that he got, you know um Because after that holy diver album my drums sound changed a bit because it was a whole new environment and uh, it's a lot more punch to it, you know Mob rules are probably a bit Uh darker uh Bottomy kind of sound, you know a lot of bottom in Well, I also thought it was great. I also think that the era Of production started to change too once you get into the 80s, you know, uh, other than say Phil rudge drums that are kind of uh, you know, they don't have the big reverbs and stuff But once you get into that you start getting into that bigger sound drums and everything got really big Then and everything got a lot of fakeness to it too. It was like Hey, let's put the this this one unit you could rent put it on and it had this Reverb kind of thing and everybody was getting to that. They were triggering the drums And holy diver in the deal of we never use triggers Everything was a you know pretty much natural and then we did use some effect on the reverb. That was it But you're right. It got more processed the more You know poppy maybe on on on this stuff not with us, but with a lot of the bands I gotta tell you I have a cassette tape here. I was at the very first Dio holy diver show at the anioc concert bar and I talked to vivian Campbell about it Do you remember playing this faken place the anioc concert barn? matter of fact, I I just Found uh over the summer. I found Boxes of stuff and I look and there's a poster for anioc california I tangin in my room there with all the records and stuff and uh to tickets in advance with for ten dollars Yeah, so that was the first dio show and It was a warm-up gig. So we go anioc california. Where the hell is that? And You know, it's a good warm-up show. We thought maybe there'll be a couple hundred people there, you know, and we could warm up Yes, you know, we were a new band So we did the soundtrack we get there Go eat and everything and then by time show time comes It's faken three thousand people there. Yeah sold out. Oh, oh, shit Look at this So that made us a little bit Nervous, you know, so I remember on that show We had a lot of endings. Ronnie likes a lot of elaborate endings, you know, like And the man of silver mountain In the heaven and hell and and then some hits and So it was hard to remember all this shit. So I remember we were fucking all the endings up We were just Instead of going to the ending we were like, I'm not sure When the ending supposed to start we're all looking at each other Okay, go one more time when they're very long endings, you know, then we just fucking ended it, you know Because there was too much to remember all that stuff We did most of it, but It's so crazy to think that you guys played anioc conservant. I was there and I think that was the first gig they ever had in there too. They only had a few gigs there I guess it was just some dude. He had this farm and he just starting to have like a figure like lead afford there Somebody else, but there it is man deal Diver out at the fucking barn. It was like going to a barbecue. Yeah, we drove up there. We went That's nice out here. Okay. Cool. You know, we thought I would just warm up and we'll play a show and No big deal. They had a barbecue going it was like laid back And then come showtime. Like I said, the place is fucking My holy Yeah, oh man. So that's funny you were there Hey, yeah, yeah, I got a cassette tape of it also man, which is crazy I want to somebody transferred onto digital just so I can listen to it, you know Yeah, yeah What uh, what was the recording process? How long did it take to record Holy Diver? I can't remember Well, holy diver, uh, it didn't take that long. What we did was once the band was together we Went into sound city in van eyes. He'll sound city complex, which was the recording side Studios here and then it was like a u-shaped building park and lot in the middle and on this side will rehearsal rooms so Well, I guess we Wendy and Ronnie looked at the studio in angelo the engineer and they like the studio. So let's rehearse here It's right across the parking lot. So we went in and they let us do every anything. We we destroyed the place Kicked holes in the wall. We Opened the pinball game so you couldn't lose the ball. This is crazy. Shit. Hey, you want some candy? Yeah Boom, boom a candy would fall out Fucking went nuts in that place. So we stayed there We wrote four songs Four songs probably took Three weeks at the most maybe two And once once we had four songs we took everything and Walked it across to the studio We didn't break anything down, you know, like cymbals stand with a cymbal on it Things walk it across we all did Ronnie too. He's carrying us something and Going to studio we set up we recorded it and then we finished as much as we could on those four songs Then we went back in the rehearsal room and wrote four more songs. He did the same thing So I think the the whole thing took six weeks Wow Wow from from writing it, you know You remember the first time here in vivian camber play I mean that guy's just insane and the way they got him was crazy How they found his name in the phone book tracked him down jimmy bang called him Hey, yeah, it's dad jimmy knew him jimmy knew him. Oh, yeah But no, he knew it, but he didn't know how to find him. Oh, I don't know. I didn't hear that part Yeah, vivian said that like his dad's the same name in the phone book So they went in a phone book and found him in and you know Double in ireland and called in the middle of the night drunk. Hey Hey Bev, this is jimmy bang And that's his father. He woke him up in the middle of the night So so his father woke viv up and said Bev there's a drunken scotsman on the line for you. It's 2 30 in the morning or something, you know jimmy You remember the first time you heard him though play because I mean he is just incredible Yeah, actually we didn't I don't know if we I don't remember listening to his band sweet savage before he flew in to play with us. So um We were in london runny and I and then finally jimmy arrived and he called viv viv came in the next day And we jammed at uh a studio there john henry rehearsal studios And we heard him Play there and then we recorded it on a cassette and we were like wow a skype Smoking and not only shredding but then at one point he did like a chuck berry thing Like a keith richardsy thing Kind of bluesy We went that's cool because a lot of guitar players just trying to go as fast as they can, you know Oh, that's shit. So uh that sold us when we went and listened to the tape later on that night and Yeah, so i'm still playing with him in last in line and uh That's another thing I keys from ireland and i'm from brooklyn And we got the same feel we lock in together It's like this special thing that The way we play together Like i only and he's a butler, you know, oh, yeah, even on the new last in line single I mean you can just hear The you know the deo band type of uh, you know playing on that just the guitar playing and the drumming And it's just like right there. You're like, oh, well this this just sounds like something off holy diver You know the the tones even yeah Yeah, well, you know what viv At rehearsal and on stage he plugs into the amp There's a wah wah pedal in between. That's it He uses angle heads and he just gets that big Crunchy sound you know, we're all these other guys are using racks and pedal boards and If you watch any of the videos, I don't know if you see the pedal board. There's no pedal board Here's a wah wah pedal any punch Right into the amp and he's using the holy diver guitar with us And it just sounds great. And so we lock in we jam together. It's just like it was with deo back in the day in iomi we Play, you know, he'll play a riff on hey, that's cool, man. Let's try it again. Let's you know This really jowls together him and I I talked to vivian quite a bit about his uh, his Porsche addiction. Are you a car guy? I'm not really now and never was a real car guy No car not a car guy, huh? Yeah Now I bought, you know first money I got I bought a house You know, I bought the one when they first came out of mazor arc seven because I thought they were cool the rotary engine I wish I still have it. That was a cool car That is 52 mg. Yeah, 52 mg and then I had a got This lexus is leasing them and stuff and I didn't get in the big cars Did you ever get to see bonzo play? No No, I got to see him one time at a vanilla fudge concert I got to see him actually they opened for the vanilla fudge back when they first came over That's how bonzo and carmine became really good friends and uh I was like, wow, holy shit. And then my brother gave me the first album. He goes check it out great drumming on this And I've only seen him that one time. That was it. They was Supposed to come down when sabbath were playing we were playing london and hammersmith uh, we played four nights there and Tony said uh, jimmy page and uh Jimmy page and bonham. We're gonna come a robber plant bonham. We're gonna come down and uh Check out the show and a week before or two weeks before he that's when he died So I'm sure I haven't met him. I got one of his sticks on the wall Oh Yeah, what who else do you like out there? Like when you were starting other than your brother and say bonzo Who were you uh into to to you know bonzo? uh Mitch mitchell. Oh, yeah. Ian pace billy cobblin buddy rich Guys like that You know and all those drummers what they have in common is they're all lead drummers They they don't play On top of the song they're in the song they're pushing the band They're doing fills the fills a part of the song So I grow and my brother and I grew up listening to this known. Yeah, that's the way it should be You know, I mean you listen to zeppelin records the drums the parts of the drums are a unique part of the song so You know, I grew up with that in mind. That's why uh on mob rules, there's a lot of You know Ass kicking going on and then holy dive it is a lot of fills And both bands never told me not to play You know like uh ronnie never said don't play over my vocal line You know because I fucking played all over his vocal line And then he would he would be inspired and go crazy Then I would be inspired by him and it was just a big Machine, you know, so and tony and geese never told me Don't don't play, you know that you know on the records or anything. So it was really a cool Thing for me, you know not to be told and they trust what I do and they like it. So Out of the out of the holy diver and last in line, which one do you like better out of those two? It's really tough to choose for me. But which one do you feel? I like holy diver is such a classic. It was a magic time and and all that and uh and last in line album has uh You know some some songs that like we rock and then the last in line brilliant song And like I speed at night just the total burner burner, you know But holy diver, I think every song is just Solid, you know, and we were just having fun. We didn't sit there and go. Well, let's try to make a classic album We were just having a lot of fun playing together and destroying sound city And then uh, there was no real stress And we didn't know that this album was going to be it's 40 years This year that it came out So we didn't know we were making a An amazing album, you know we thought well We thought the same way we thought of annie. I think that probably be a couple hundred people here No laugh. So this this album just keeps kicking ass went double platinum last year, you know crazy I know vivian had You know his troubles with windy and and that whole thing and you you played with d.o. All the way to the end Um, were you kind of bummed once he was gone? And oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, ronnie told me, you know, I'm gonna get We're gonna get rid of the watch. Why you know, I was why you're gonna do that, you know um It was a money thing, you know, we were promised a lot of stuff A lot of uh percentages and this and this and this and this and this and it never really materialized Um, and I kind of had my separate deal with ronnie and wendy with a contract So that's what happened. Viv was questioning it and question, you know Hey, what what's going on, you know, and it just got to be uh Uh a thing where they didn't like that and they thought well Anybody could be replaced which is not true. Yeah sorry that's not true and They got craig goldie in there and that craig goldie was in a band rough cut that wendy managed so it was convenient for And easy for him to come in You know, but it's not true that in certain bands. Yeah, you could replace everybody You know, whoever you want, but certain bands you can't you imagine zeppelin Uh replacing jimmy page with anybody else for Robert plant. Yeah There's a magic there with that That chemistry, you know, so so that's what happened So I was kind of bummed and then okay, we'll carry on with craig And then the music, you know, we started to go downhill a little bit, you know, it's not craigsaw, but it was the You know, ronnie was producing it and we brought keyboards in more and uh We started off as a fucking guitar band on fire, you know so Yeah, yeah, I think you know, also that goes back to uh The era started changing again every time. Well, you know jumps big. We gotta get some keyboards And uh, you know, let's soften up the sound and get some songs on the radio Yeah, yeah Interesting time you start chasing that and then you lose your your core following and your core sound and then it's Yeah, yeah When you put together uh last in line the uh group now you got the third record coming out jericho um What was the singing auditions like for that was andrew just picked right away or were you looking at a bunch of guys? Well, the way we started was uh Vivian called me he spoke to jimmy And he said hey, I just spoke to jimmy. You want to jam together? I'm in town um In la I said, yeah, that'd be fun. So we got together in the studio when we started playing all the whole The dios stuff trying to remember it, you know, especially viv with the solos, you know He's trying to remember his solos and so that's the way it started then It was so much fun. He said let's do it again And I said my friend andy's in town I've worked with andy with george lynch on the tour a long time ago Right and he knows the stuff. So let me call him and he came down He knew everything And when we played we went holy shit It's a powerhouse. It sounds great with him, you know singing this stuff. So we decided uh Maybe we should start a band, you know, and then uh viv's friend steve strange You know, he just passed last year. He was a big uh Agent in england and the us really big everybody knew steve and he loved the band. So he Booked us some gigs. We did a bunch of gigs in europe Then he got us a record deal with frontiers records. So now When we had the time we got together and started writing just like deal the way we did it in holy diver So we did no audition It just came together, which is cool You know, we didn't do it like, uh, you know trying to get a name singer and It looks good on paper kind of thing, you know, so this was like l natural ever came together and then You know, we did the first uh record and then jimmy passed he died and we auditioned a couple of bass players and uh, and then phil came down we know phil forever and phil comes from the same era and You know, we All hung out together at one point during the 80s So phil was easy to uh bring in And play with and he plays, you know similar kind of style of the jimmy a little bit more Busy than jimmy played. So he fit in great. So The good team now Yeah, it feels great, man. He uh, I had him on the show and had no idea that like he basically him and And jimmy started an early version of the firm, which is crazy Yeah, he did. I didn't know that Yeah, that's fucking wild man. He's playing with jimmy You know Yeah I love it. I love it. So the new the new Just so you know, I got to get another interview at once. We're out of here. Uh, new record comes out. What's the date? The new record comes out March 31st And Are you guys going to be touring it or anything? We're going out in april for some dates and then we're going out in september And in between that jiv's gone with leopard, you know, right? So, uh, i'm going to be doing it I do this thing in europe. I've done three tours there and it was called The mob rules and I played basically all the stuff from mob rules and some old sabbath couple of do songs and I did like 25 dates and one tour and went back Three i've done three tours all over europe and and south america i've done twice And uh, so i'm gonna i'm gonna i said, you know what and it's fun It's fun to play that stuff's low stress. We're not trying to sell albums or nothing None of that it's just like a good night of music So it's called sabbath night. So i'll be out doing that I got a kick-ass band on the east coast and one on the west coast And uh, I'll play all the stuff that i'm on and some old stuff too, which is fun Wow, that's pretty damn cool. Yeah. Yeah, it's cool. And I call it you can call it a tribute plus i'm the plus One guy that was in the band You know That's still doing it. I mean sabbath nobody's ozzie retired nobody's gonna play From sabbath again probably live Isn't that crazy to think about? Yeah, yeah. Well, he's uh You know, he's he's right, you know the traveling sucks. Oh He's traveling nicely Yeah, the traveling You got you got to be strong, you know and then play these shows and and it's an app but now he's retiring all right, we lost ozzie and You know, tony geyser not gonna Geysers retired pretty much and tony He's still probably doing stuff in the studio. He's got a nice studio in his house and that so I'll be the only one that was had a link to that, you know, and And it's fun to do, you know, it's fun to play this stuff So i'm gonna be doing some dates with that too. So call sabbath nights You remember where you were when uh, you heard ronnie died? Uh Well, we were in the hospital with him. wendy called and said you better come to the hospital because Not looking good So we went to the hospital and a whole bunch of people there We're all like a party. We're in his room and ronnie's just out of it. You know, he's on morphine. He's just ice clothes. He's like unconscious and uh, shit and then At one point the doctors said, okay, you guys everybody's got to leave We got to do some work and then you can come back in okay So I went up to ronnie. I mean he was unconscious and so i used to close I touched him. I said ron We'll be back in five minutes 15 20 minutes And all of a sudden his eyes opened and he looked at me About 30 seconds like everything was normal And then he closed his eyes and went back Holy shit. I got chills Wow. Yeah, it's like I knew I was there and uh, so he was basically like that and then The next day wendy called and said he passed on Damn damn because we thought we you know, we was scheduled to go Back out on the road that was he died in may and and 2010 and we finished the year before and uh He was getting treatment, you know, and he even wanted to get together with me and geyser and him at a rehearsal place maybe like February march start singing a little bit because the tour wasn't till july and That never happened, you know, he wanted to do that to to get back into shape and his his voice, you know He sounded a little bit raspy, but we thought it's Ronnie. Yeah, and he's gonna sing and Two days, he'll be like normal a day. He'll be normal. Yeah, and that's not what happened. He just Didn't turn out that way. So we never got together with him um And then uh, you know the next thing they had to bring in a hospital Damn Yeah, yeah, the worst part was there was the three of us I've never experienced this Tony he's in and me and we went up to the casket. It's an open casket And you look and it's gone I mean this it's freaky because you're a band and one guy's laying In the box. Oh man, normally would have been rehearsing. It was in burbank too. It was like we rehearsed in burbank and that was freakier than losing a family member almost too where It's a different feeling. You know, this was like a band's a band, you know, it's a unit and We We're a standing there just feeling inside. It's so sad. Oh man, I couldn't even imagine I mean like the last time you were with him other than the hospital was on stage on the heaven and hell tour So then there you are. It's just like oh And that last tour he was pretty he was sick, right? Yeah, he was hurting. Yeah. Yeah, he didn't complain much to me, but he would complain tell geyser, you know I think it's gas and You know, then he's then he said one time. I think it's I got cancer from geyser But no, no, no, Ron you just go see the doctor and sort it out, you know all that stuff So but he went out gave 110% as much as he could Oh, he sounded incredible when I saw him. Oh, yeah, he loved he loved doing that stuff Love singing and and the fans and the whole Things And the funny thing is when I joined Sabbath, I went out I went down to meet Tony. I owe me In a hotel 1980 They said, uh, you want to meet Tony? Yeah, so I went and we got we hit it off And he had my album I did with my band axis, which is danie johnson And he goes, this is good. We like it like and then we hit it off Come down to rehearsal tomorrow. We'll go down there. I meet Ronnie and Jeff Nichols and geyser They go, what do you want to play and I wasn't a big Sabbath I'm like, oh shit. What are we but I heard neon nights on the radio. Yeah, like the week before I heard I went Wow, that dude singers like amazing You know because I wasn't a Ronnie follower either. I heard of my man in silver mountain, but not rainbow I wasn't following rainbow So I knew neon nights Only had one break in it. So it's easy for the drums So I said neon nights. So we played it. That was the first song I played with Ronnie The last show we ever did that was the last song I played with wow Wow 30 something years later first song last song It was like the end of the the closure of the chapter the book Yeah, that's about ironic, you know freaky. That's a wild story man. Yeah Well, thanks for doing the show congrats on the new record coming out and uh the tour coming up And uh, I just wanted to tell you man. I've been a big fan of your playing. It's just unbelievable How great you are back there on the kid and uh as as uh as many people love you and everything I still feel that you're completely underrated. I'm just like this guy is a god out there, man of just metal drumming and It's mostly the feel man. Your feel is And also you were right on time today. I'm like yep. See he's got great timing on interviews and behind the kid Well, that's one thing, you know, you could practice same with guitar You could practice technique and and different exercises and same thing on the drums But the feel it's got to come from inside You know and you can't teach I mean you could You could teach it a little bit like don't you know, it's got to be locked in and then you know right in tempo and Things that work things that don't work. It's hard to teach that you know It's got to come from within and I I learned a lot of that too playing what I owe me played so behind the beat You know, like when we played the song black Sabbath, there's almost no tempo I It wasn't right in Yeah, same thing if you listen to heaven and hell that was bill ward on the album they go It slows down Yeah And that's the three of them Three Birmingham guys that they lock in and they play as one They all slow down I love it Yeah, you know hear that stuff you go. Wow, that's cool Well, you can just feel it you can feel it when you're in the audience too It's just it just grabs you and you're just like it's there's a lot of drummers out there that are technically You know skilled But they're too much like a metronome. They just don't you know, they just don't have that swing that feel that groove You know, it's just like boom pop boom pop boom. They're like i'm perfectly in time It's like yeah, but there's no fucking heart and soul there Right, you know what it is too if you listen to snare drum The guy's hitting the snare drum. Sometimes you hear him playing the snare drums exactly the same every hit What what like you just said whereas I don't hit like that You know, there's some grace notes that goes like this, you know, same thing with my brother and Bonham You know, we didn't hit like It's just there's no feel in that, you know, no heart now. So It all comes down under the umbrella of the field the field, you know, you got to have the feel and this tempo And steady, you know, so I learned a lot from from playing with iomi you know Wow Big chords just right in the pocket, you know, that guy's a god Yeah, he's a god Thanks for doing the show man. I really thank you dean and uh nice talking to you check out tuesday 4 p.m facebook pinny apaceo official Yeah, everybody get down on that facebook and uh watch his drum lesson and jams and uh and also Check out the new lesson line record coming out jericho. It's uh, I got a single out right now ghost town It's fantastic and uh, thank you again, man. Ah, thanks dean. You take care. Bye everybody. Thanks for listening. All right later