 Hi, welcome everyone to Emperor Norton in Black, San Francisco Empire Day Notes on San Francisco's Monarch of the Marginalized. Wait, I did that wrong. Welcome everyone to Emperor Norton in Black, San Francisco. A talk with John Lumia. My name is Taryn Edwards and I am one of the librarians here at the Mechanics Institute of San Francisco, which was a haunt of Emperor Norton's. For those of you unfamiliar with Mechanics, we are an independent membership organization that houses a wonderful library, the oldest in fact designed to serve the public in California, a cultural event center, and a world-renowned chess club that is the oldest in the nation. Right now due to the shelter in place, almost all of our activities are virtual, but I encourage you to consider becoming a member with us. It's only $120 a year and with that you help support our contribution to the literary and cultural world of the San Francisco Bay Area. Now we have a special speaker today, John Lumia, who is a writer, a historian, and the founder of the Emperor Norton Trust, which is a nonprofit that works to honor the life and advance the legacy of Joshua Abraham Norton. The trust's presence is a trove of material that shines a light on the real Norton's life. So if you're at all interested in going beyond the myth, I encourage you to take a look and I will put the link to that in the chat space. Meanwhile, John's work has appeared in several periodicals that you're familiar with, including the San Francisco Chronicle, KQED, Mother Jones, the Wall Street Journal, Medium, and the Los Angeles Times. Now, let me explain briefly how this talk will work. John has a lot of content to share with you, so we want to get going. But first let me say, and I think I've said this before, is that we're using the webinar format of Zoom, so it's perfectly normal that you can only see me and John. You're muted as well, but we would love to take your questions at the end of the talk. So please post them in the chat space, and we will get them at the end. All right, thank you for coming today, and thank you, John. Let's get started. All right. I'm sure, right. Let's do my thing. All right, we good? We're good. Well, I'm delighted to welcome everybody and to wish you a happy Empire Day. I think most of you who are here probably know what Empire Day is about, but I thought it would be good to start by saying just a couple of little words of context. The Emperor Norton Trust, which at that time was known as the Emperor's Bridge Campaign, in 2015 inaugurated this sort of annual holiday to mark the fact that September 17th, 1859 was the date on which then Joshua Norton sort of walked into the offices of the San Francisco Daily Evening Bulletin and handed the editor, George Fitch, a proclamation declaring himself Emperor of the United States. And let's see. Okay, I can't. There we go. So there's the proclamation. Heavily and impermanent, I'm not going to read the entire thing. It's interesting, you know, there's a, one of the more popular stories that goes around is that on this date, or before this date, that Josh Norton had disappeared from the city. He'd been gone for two or three years and he came back riding on a white steed to declare himself Emperor. It seems actually that the best evidence suggests that he actually was in center to school along. Living at that time in a boarding house at 255 Kearney between Broadway and Vallejo, sort of on the west side of that very sort of steep hill now known as the Peter Macchi-Renie steps. And so that's where he would have been coming from. And this is, this is the location today. This is a, this is sort of view of what we're doing sort of last year. If you see that sort of white SUV in the little box on the sidewalk adjacent to the building just to the right of the SUV, this is kind of a box of flowers and a sign sort of marking Empire Day last year. That is on Clay Street, just across Redwood Park, sort of next to next to the Trans-America Pyramid. So that's where the central office would have been. And then that's the floral tribute that we had last year. So usually when we start talking about sort of Emperor Norton and Black Civil Rights, the proclamations that there are a couple of proclamations that we sort of mainly sort of talk about and these sort of made it into the, into the shorthand of talking with this. And I think in the outset that, that we still are, you know, as, as so often with Emperor Norton, we're, we're, we're looking through the last start, you know, we're, you know, the documentary record is, is still sort of very, very thin. So I'm not really able to present a grand unified theory of Emperor Norton as a Black Civil Rights leader, but there is what I like to call sort of an arc of associations that I think are always sort of interesting to the look at and sort of think about. And so, so here's a proclamation that appeared in May of 1871 in the Pacific Appeal newspaper, whereas we ordered the color people some years back, we permitted to ride in the street railroad cars, but in order to prevent collision and future disturbance, we hereby command the arrest of all who violate that decree, and then it goes on to say something else. And then here's another proclamation that appeared on 7th of March 1874, also in the Pacific Appeal, whereas the American nation had acknowledged the citizenship of the colored people, their children are entitled to admission in the public schools, and all the privileges of citizenship, he was either take the citizenship away and exclude or admit them and grant them their privileges. So that's sort of where, where the Emperor is in, in, in the early 1870s, but our story really starts almost 20 years before that in 1855, and that, that was the year that there was the, what was called the first state convention of the colored people of the state of California. So this, this was sort of very, a very sort of early movement sort of effort. And at this, at this, at this meeting in Sacramento, and there were a number of these that happened over the next few years, these, these colored citizens conventions, Philip and Peter Anderson made the case that there needed to be a black newspaper to address sort of black concerns. So in 1856, this newspaper was started called the Mirror of the Times. In 1860, they brought in a new editor from New York named Philip Bell. Now, New York at the time, the, the, the the black led movement for black equality was further along in New York than it was in San Francisco. So, so at that point, of course, you know, Frederick Reynolds is already there and, and, and Philip Bell is an associate in Frederick Ellis. And so, so he already is, is a well known sort of writer and thinker on these issues that he's being brought in in 1860 to really, you know, take this, this paper to the next step. And there's, there's Philip Bell as he, as he looked sort of at the time. And so he comes in in 1860. And one of the first things that he, that he writes is about Emperor Norton. He's newly arrived in the city. And he writes this, this sort of opinion piece. I'm going to read the whole thing because it's really, it's really a, a fantastic piece that kind of gives you a sense of what his thinking was. And you'll see there at the bottom, a cosmopolite, that's his, that's his pen name. And he writes a word for the emperor. There is in this city an unfortunate man who defends himself a king or emperor or something of the kind. He glides harmlessly and offensively along, apparently proud of his stated uniform, which he finally imagines are the trappings of royalty. He is not hopelessly insane, or the authorities would take care of it. He is not a pauper for he begs not. Neither does he receive alms. He has, I suppose, friends who support him and suffer him to indulge in his innocent vagaries. Among savages in facility is viewed as a divine inspiration in the unfortunate subjects of a demented mind or considers being a peculiar care of the great spirit and respected and pity. How differently are they treated in this enlightened community? Some heartless wretches who in their outward form, bear the semblance all men, all or not men who bear the human form, but inwardly have reptile hearts often perpetrate, perpetrate what they call practical jones in this poor man by presenting him with spurious letters and royal personages, swords, epaulets and so forth. He receives them with becoming dignity, and they serve but to confirm him in his hallucination, his mind is to imbecile, and his brain too weak to understand the cruelty of the deception, it must be freeable to his friends to witness such things. A morning paper, which has many attributes of respectability, in which from its manly course on many subjects of great interest, wherein the rights of the community are concerned, opposing monopolies, characterizing oppression and justice by their right names, and advocating the interests of the poor man, has won a merit to title of honor indulges in this morning's issue on what I suppose a good joke at the expense of the unfortunate individual alluded to. I hope the sake of consistency of the paper and questionable in the future, refrain from the exhibitions of low wittesisms is a worthy admission of that sheet to hold up ridicule that which should excite sympathy. I'm a stranger here, and know nothing of the history of Mr. N. Can you give me the information? So, so Phillip Bell, I mean, clearly, he's, he's a little bit patronizing in his in his sort of sesame name for he doesn't know really who he's talking about. But generally, the view is sort of one of sympathy. And I have looked high and low to see exactly what paper that he might have been referring to on that morning of August 17 or 18 was sort of wrote the piece that he was sort of talking about. But, but a couple of days later, on August 21, the emperor response in the pages of the same paper with a specific proclamation, I think civic in this sense, means peaceable. And so the emperor writes, we have noticed your letter signed cosmopolite word for the emperor, but he is laboring under an hallucination, rather a double entendre. Can the gentleman solve the mystery of our birth and parentage? He pretends to know everything but still seeks information. He may not choose to acknowledge that he is aware of frequent conspiracy against our person, rights and dignity, and that which appears strange to outsiders as part and parcel of those conspiracies. And also that politically, we have had to contend with the powerful factions policy hit or to has been to encourage dishonesty and drive out virtue. All such we say to me, happy, you must be virtuous. There's not the plume truth nor gold, but virtue that should be came. The American nation is now composed of all nations, and almost all religions may be difficult, please all. So the, so the response there is, it's a little bit prickly, but you get a very strong sense. You know, very early in the emperor's reign, still just below the one year mark of sort of what he, how he tries to sort of reframe the issues and sort of set the priorities straight. So going on a little bit further, in 1862, Philip Bell and Peter Anderson actually, basically, were converted the mirror of the times into the Pacific appeal with Peter Anderson, functioning as proprietor, and Philip Bell, functioning as editor. Very shortly after that, the two had a following out that has sort of differences of opinion and vision about the direction of paper. And Philip Bell started his own paper in 1965, called the elevator, and that paper ran for another 20 years. So he continued to be a distinguished figure in sort of black sort of intellectual and political life. So but in, in 1868, it seems that his, his view of the emperor had changed. He writes a small editorial item here called the editorial clown. Every profession has its pursuances, pretenders, men who think they are OFA in the mysteries of the profession they disgrace. Thus medicine has its quacks, the law its pettifoggers, the clergy of all denominations is a journey in preachers, monarchy has Emperor Norton, and the press had this Brick Pomeroy. So he's, he's, he's definitely at this point, he's gone a little a little sour on the emperor. In fact, it gets even worse. Later on, in, get the data in front of me. In 1876, Philip L. and Peter Anderson continued to be a sort of bitter riles. This gets played out in paper. And at one point, Philip L. editorializes, sort of trying to trying to sort of pigeonhole Peter Anderson, the public public view, talking about referencing, quote, the nonsensical proclamations about old imposter Emperor Norton, who is more made than fool. So, so his view definitely changed. And now that was, that was 1868, March of 1868. A couple of days later, there was an event in Platt's musical hall. This event, a political lecture by a new political club called Freedoms Defenders. This was a, this was a, this was a pro US grant pro union group. Of course, the election was coming up. And so they were, they were wanting to sort of extend sort of the vision of Blanken and make sure that it stuck. And so they were going to hold the lecture. And the speaker, let me first show you where this was. This was Platt's musical hall, which was on the northeast corner of Montgomery and Bush. Now, those of you who remember that original proclamation, you know, the Emperor talks about his calling on the representatives of the States to meet in musical hall the following February. That's a different musical hall. That musical hall, which is actually just across the street, actually burned in January of 1860. And so the Emperor had to specify a different location for, for the for the assembly. But this was Platt's musical hall, which was which was for many, many years was a was a was a major sort of concert lecture venue for the city. And at this meeting, the speaker was General Oscar Hugh LaGrange. LaGrange had been a Union general. And he had recently arrived in San Francisco. This is a photo from for about 1863. He came to San Francisco. And in an 1869, he actually was appointed the supervisor of US Mint in San Francisco, which works at the time, was on a commercial street between Montgomery and Kearney just down from where the Emperor was living. So but it was LaGrange, who, who oversaw the grand project of the Mint that now stands at Fifth and Mission. And so he, he gave a speech and and touched on all these, all these points, among which was the, the, the, the vision, bubbling up for an amendment to the Constitution that would guarantee the right to vote to men of color. We weren't to the point of women yet, but but but that that vote was seen as a as a natural and rightful sort of out working of the emancipation of proclamation. And that's part of what he was there to talk about. Now in the next day's paper in the examiner, took note of this meeting, the examiner was, was a democratic paper at a time, remember, when the Democrats were the pro-slavery group. And so, so they were, they were very, very wary of this meeting. And I'm not gonna read this whole, this whole piece, but, but they, they use the N word many, many times, and give you a pretty clear sense of what they make of this whole thing. In the middle of this item, though, it says that there were many Democrats present out of curiosity in the body of the audience where Emperor Norton, several Negroes, et cetera, just enough to give rise to the occasion. So their, their idea clearly was to associate Emperor Norton with blacks as a way of discrediting both of them. But, but we see here and we have evidence from this item that the emperor was there. And he, he was sort of taking this up as, as a concern. So that is in March of 1868. The following February, February of 1869, US Congress actually passed the 15th Amendment, which was to guarantee the right to vote to men of color. And then for the next year, you would have the ratification process going through all the states. So in, in November of 1869, Peter Anderson gives lecture on this subject at the African, African Methodist Episcopal Church, which is we're looking here north on, on Stockton. And, and the church, the tower that you see there is, is the first Presbyterian church was on Stockton between Clay and Washington. The AME Zion Church was one block at the south of that. So one block closer to, to the view where they were sort of looking at. And that's where this meeting took place. And, and that was on November 15, 1869. And the next day, the, the examiner took note of that meeting, saying that the last year, Peter Anderson, the lecturer on the 15th Amendment and the Zion AME Church on Stockton Street, the attendance was very small. But among those present was Imperial Highness Norton I, an attentive listener. He occupied a front seat, the lecturer said in his opening remarks, that although the meeting was small, they conduct themselves with dignity. And then in parentheses, Emperor Norton fully agreed with this remark of his loyal subject. And where, and the color folks only recognize the fact that where he was, there was dignity. And so, and so again, you see the emperor being president and a counter for at another meeting where, where black equal rights are being hammered out. And it seems very possible that this meeting was where the emperor and and Peter Anderson met. So this is 18, this is 1869. And just for reference, here's a photograph of the emperor from March of 1869. So that's, that's how the emperor was looking during this period. This is still, this is still sort of before he became a more nationally known figure before he was sort of selling his bonds and able to sort of eat a bit better. So he was still, he was still known mainly in San Francisco, and was probably a pretty undernourished figure, but, but, but that's, that's the time frame that we're looking at. And, and during this period, the papers, the bulletin, for example, the print of that first proclamation, they continue to print the emperor's proclamation for the next couple of years, and then then they just sort of got tired of the joke, what to them was a joke. And, and other papers sort of picked up the baton. Notably, the Daily Alta, whose, whose editor Albert Evans got in the habit of printing all sorts of proclamations under the emperor's name, there weren't hits, just for the, for the fun, just as a hoax, as a prank. And the emperor was getting tired of this as he was casting about in the late 1860s and 1870 for a new, a new venue to write his proclamations. So he started writing for the Pacific Appeal, which, you know, at this point was, was both sort of own operated and edited by Peter Anderson. He started writing for, for the paper, it's September of 1870, there are a few proclamations in that sort of fall and early winter. And then in December, 23rd, 1870, he had this proclamation published in the paper, being anxious to have a reliable weekly imperial organ, we nor the first day Gratia Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico, who hereby appoint the Pacific Appeal our set organ conditionally, they are not traders and stand true to our colors. So so so that was the, you know, that was the arrangement. And actually, for the next five years, the Pacific Appeal printed some 250 of the emperor's proclamations. This was a weekly paper. And very often, there were two or three proclamations in the issue, always on the front page, you know, usually with this sort of proclamation heading at the top. And the arrangement went along very well. So all the all the proclamations that we know about and we're very lucky that the the California Digital Newspaper, the California Digital Digital Newspaper collection, which is based on Abuse to Riverside, has an almost complete set of the Pacific Appeal, which which ran from 1862 to 1880, digitized and open sources that we can define sort of all of this stuff. So all the great proclamations of the emperor about about fairness to the Chinese, about fairness to Native Americans, talking about political corruption and business corruption, all those things where he was sort of hammering out his, his vision of, of fairness and equity. And what we now sort of think of as the sort of progressive centralist ideal, he was doing it in this black owned weekly paper. It also came to the Streaching Halt in May of 1875. Now in this date, May 1875, these three proclamations appeared on the front page of the Pacific Appeal. I'm not going to read all of them. The first one, the emperor hereby orders the proper authorities to collect the fine and pose some Buckingham effect for refusing the first ever with boots and to hand the same over to the immigrant aid society. So it's funny, but it also, it also kind of gives you a sense of sort of where his priorities were. And then he has a couple of, a couple of, a couple more proclamations. Those all were on the front page with his name signed to each one. So then you come to page two, in that same issue, you have this problem. Whereas a person styling himself, Charles R. Peters, was at the time of the drawing of the Mercantile Library of Lottery accused of appropriating the Capitol Prize, which was won by Norton the first intended by the emperor for the chair of distribution. Whereas the said Peters is now attempting misrepresentation and false assertions to induce immigrants to purchase worthless land at a quote town, which he calls Newark, which has neither local habitation nor name outside of the imagination, said Peters. Now therefore, this is to caution all persons against being misled or deceived by the said Peters and the grand jury is hereby instructed to inquire into said matters and to bring said Peters to trial. Well, this start a firestorm, of course, the the proclamation is not signed. It certainly is in the style of Norton. And Norton sort of became the fall guy for it. The late Robert Chandler, in the book he wrote in, I believe, 2014, was talking about the sort of culture of printing at the time and talk about how an editor like Peter Anderson would have signed off on the original copy, but he wouldn't sign off on the printed piece. So once the papers left the editor's desk, it went to the type setter and and then it was possible for type setters to to have their own way with what actually got printed. So there is a possibility that that that it was the type setters roll here to sort of publish this thing, whether it was the emperors or not. But the upshot was that Charles Peters threatened suit. And and so a couple of weeks later, 29 May 1875, Anderson publishes this retraction in a civic appeal, writing an article appeared in the appeal some two or three weeks ago written by quote Emperor Norton or quote Norton the first reflecting on the excursion made to Newark under the proprietorship of Mr. Charles R. Peters, the eminent and enterprising real state broker. The article being put in the paper by a compositor in the establishment we get our paper printed against our express orders, said journeyman printer also took the quote emperors non-deplume from the bottom of the article, thus leaving the article without signature, as we have been imposed upon by the journeyman compositor as also an offense has been given to Mr. Peters against our wishes or will. We take this occasion to retract said article by Emperor Norton and forbid him hereafter, bring anything to our office publication. And we'll say to Mr. Peters that we have not been a party to or the writer of that article, and none regrets more than we do of the imposition, which Emperor Norton and journeyman printer is his practice on both ourself and Mr. Peters. And by strict vigilance, we promise that the like will not occur again. We believe Mr. Peters to be an honorable upright and enterprise and citizen and gentlemen. We also urge everyone who is the head of a family to buy his New York lots. So that was that was a pretty, that was a pretty thorough retraction and a pretty thorough rebuke of of the Emperor. And that really was that really sort of marked the end of of the relationship that the Emperor had enjoyed with the Pacific Appeal. What's interesting is that that nearly below this retraction in the same column. Anderson publishes a further op ed titled Our Position as a Journalist writing for the dozen or so of years that we have been publishing the Pacific Appeal. It has been our endeavor not to go out of our way to discuss any measures or schemes inaugurated by our enterprise and capitalists. We strictly confine ourselves such current subjects or topics as concerned the political elevation of the color race, which we are identified, as well as the oppressed of all nations. This week considered has been our legitimate sphere. And this only has been our mission. But like other journalists, in spite of the greatest caution, we sometimes inadvertently get placed into a false attitude many times for our best friends in the present instance, the trouble we are in, which is explained in our in our attraction in relation to Mr. Charles R. Peters, we have done all in our power and are willing to do anything else to make honorable amends to that gentleman. We are not those who get into an error, then persistent argument to justify it, but acknowledge it once and then ask forgiveness to those who we unwittingly offend. This week even a proper. And this has been our course. At the same time, the appeal in its original editorial matter will be bold, high toned and argumentative on all the great political and miscellaneous current subject to appertaining not only to the wealth of the color race, but other whole people of the United States. So, so Anderson wants to make very clear that he understands that that he occupies a very, very narrow stream and and that and that his ability to continue paddling in that stream depends upon the the the largest of money interest like Charles Peters. And so it's it's a it's a very, very telling couple of of opinion pieces that that that Peter Anderson writes on May 29 1875 and they seem to have done the trick because on June 5 of 1875 we see this piece headline liable case dismissed. The following item we clicked in the morning call of Thursday at last quote on motion determined presenting to people. Judge Lauderback history dismissed the complaint charging Peter Anderson the appeal was liable. One issue that paper there was published one of Emperor Norman's proclamations reflecting upon Mr. C. R. Peters and the following issue Mr. Peters Mr. Anderson made the immense honorable Mr. Peters being satisfied did not desire to prosecute in quote and then Anderson goes on we will take this occasion to further add that the dilemma in which we were inadvertently placed in last week in consequence of the idiotic paragraph or scrapped by quote Emperor Norton which was the cause of our trouble that after our explanation of the facts in the case in our last week's issue none were more prompt than Mr. Charles or Peters and Colonel William H. L. Barnes attorney in ceasing any further prosecution the case which they have our thanks measures cutting huge proprietors the extensive printing sale in which our paper printed also have our thanks for their promise of coming to our aid and rendering all these all the assistance in their power in order to relieve us if possible of difficulty the entire press of the city and state also have our thanks is no more disposed to lay a straw on our way and all rather implied sympathy in our case than desired a century before an explanation was given we also think our citizens of large for the many tokens of sympathy the confidence on our past course in integrity in not descending to such topics as would mar the standing of sympathy appeal in responsibility at least as a first-class journal. And so and so Anderson you know having having published the Emperor's proclamations for for solid four and a half years really continues to stick into the emperor here and and you know I mean my personal reading of this you know is that that surely you know what what all of this shows is that that on the margins of society which which is where Anderson prominent as he was within the black intellectual community you know he was so on the margins within San Francisco at large and so even within the margins you know there was a hierarchy and Emperor Norton despite his sympathy with the black cause was was easily made a fall guy and he was someone who who was deemed acceptable to to basically throw into the bus you know I don't have any further proof that that's just simply my my reading of what the what the documents seem to show but it's a fascinating turn of events and actually after 1875 and here's just a reference this is this is the emperor that is more fluid for a lot of people and that's that's a picture of the emperor in 1875 so that's how he looked when all this was was happening and after this event of of May of 1875 which was covered everywhere on both sides of the bay all papers in San Francisco covered it the local papers covered it was a big deal and he net he never really again found another place where he can have such a such a sort of steady venue for his proclamation and you do find proclamations by the emperor for mid 1875 until Seth in 1880 but not nearly as many as there have been for for so very many years so his his voice really in many ways was was at least in papers was somewhat swell you know he continued to be a character and make his opinion known about town I think I'm going to close my remarks there I will say one more thing just because I know that some of you may have to leave promptly we also different on trust are running a special sort of social media event today called be nortonian very simple idea take a photo or video of yourself being nortonian whatever that means to you if it means dressing in the costume reciting a poem singing a song working for a cause doing that kind of whatever it is take a photo video yourself post the Facebook or Twitter a hashtag it Empire Day and tags and we will will will share those things through our own channels as well and if we give enough of that we'll we'll do a gallery in this couple of days and and see what everybody was was thinking on this empire day and I will I'll close with that well thank you that was wonderful why don't we take some questions now I'm going to unshare your screen here why don't you do that John Oh thank you does anyone have any questions that they'd like to ask John about what he just said he covered a lot of material I posted a lot of resources there and I will send those out to you after the talk so that way you can actually click on the links because putting things in the chat space isn't as easy as I thought it would be any questions I mentioned them all I hope not please post your questions in the chat space and we will ask them of John oh here we go yay okay Matthew asks do we know for certain if Emperor Norton actually wrote that last proclamation against Charles Peters we don't we don't I mean it certainly is in his voice his name was left off it's very strange because because the other proclamations written or published in that same issue were done as they always were they were almost always on the front page usually at the bottom right the bottom left the fact of that was kind of slipped in on the second page it's very very strange but but certainly I mean what you what you saw in the in the in the in the retraction and the other comment that that that Peter Anderson published was that the libel suit was against him personally it wasn't just against the appeal so he was really personally feeling he so I I think I think you know what you basically have a situation probably where where Peter Anderson just knew the store you know and he wanted to he wanted to live fighting on the day and he had other things to do and and and the emperor those proclamations were were not at the center of his own personal mission and he had other things he wanted to do so it was the easiest thing for him to do was just cut the Emperor loose whether or not he actually wrote that problem so John Schmidt has a follow-up question after Norton lost the newspaper how were his proclamations were they just published in in random other papers or various ones and you can find you know occasionally the the Chronicle would publish one occasionally the exam would publish one the Euclid Tribune actually published several of them in that in that sort of period but I think you know it's just that the fact that that the Emperor had been so forthright in declaring you know this is my Imperial Orient sort of gives you gives you a little more confidence to know that those ones that were published in the appeal actually were his you know the ones the ones are published in that first year or two after after he declared himself Emperor those also seem to be his afterwards sort of after after 1875 you know it really kind of becomes a case of well you know looking at all the proclamations does this one seem to hold together is it of a piece with his concerns and if it is and if it seems to be his voice and you probably say that it's him but there were not nearly as many. Yeah identifying his voice sounds like it's trickier than it sounds. It is because you know someone just the other day that you know there there are there are a couple of sort of basic categories and one you know are these these very sort of public public spirited proclamations that are about sort of issues of the day issues of principle sometimes local topical things and then there's then there's this other category which is all about you know build my empire and give me back my money and you know give me a give me a new imperial palace and all the rest so you know the concerns of money and position we're still we're still things I think kind of more on him probably more and more is the years past and those are sort of the ones where where you can really kind of feel him going a little sideways but yet yet the ones that are that are public spirited you know those are still very much he's very sharp he's a great writer you know he's clearly someone who is who is in control of his thoughts when he has something to say. Great let's see Katherine asks she mentions you've described a very active black intellectual participation in early San Francisco do you have anything more to add? I will I can I can either I can give you the links to tear into three essays that maybe the ones we're talking about the three essays that I was mainly sort of drawing from that I wrote in the past couple of years about all these issues which have a lot more detail. There were there also was there was a I'm gonna I'm gonna blank on it now but there was a there was a there was a group there was a group that met every week on on post-tree it comes to me. But the emperor was a group of kind of a public community group that everyone would meet and and it was all to do with what they were considered sort of radical concerns so it was it was women's rights black rights and all of that and that was another sort of venue where where the effort was a regular attendee and actually there was a there was a journal called common sense that they had a very short but distinguished life for about a year year and a half and there are a couple of proclamations are published in that journal including one that is appears to be his longest one it goes on for quite quite a few paragraphs it wasn't limited by column space in the way that he was you know in the in the email that I sent out to the attendees I'll include a few essays that have been posted on the web Susan Anderson had one that I just read not too long ago and I can't seem to find it right now but more on that topic about the intellectual life of black Californians you know that there was a group of fellows who started up a library in 1853 which was well before the mechanics Institute well before the staff decades before the San Francisco public library months before the mercantile association library was a short that the library was short-lived but it's kind of amazing that that there was one in San Francisco I forgot to mention just all I think about it because I don't want to forget we were talking about that that proclamation from the 1870s where he's talking about insisting on the right of a black striped public three cars and for in fact that he's I've already told you this once so I'm now reminding you what I told you you know there was that old situation in 1863 it's four where Charlotte Brown in San Francisco served an early rows of parks sort of filed suit and actually won a suit for for having been for the attempt of the omnibus company to throw her off the the bus for for literally no other reason than being black and then a couple years later in 1866 7-8 Mary on Pleasant I had a similar court case on the same issue so in those cases were both widely covered in the papers the emperor was an average reader of the papers so it probably stands for reason that if there was another printed proclamation somewhere where he addressed this issue it probably would have been a response to to one or both of those those cases that pre-San Francisco a related question did the from George Westermark did the Democratic papers treat Norton's presence at black meetings as a joke I would say so I mean I mean just going going strictly on on on the copy that he got in the exam which was definitely was a democratic paper and and so you know I mean it's hard to say you know exactly what what he was able to be a person self was able to accomplish at the meet at these meetings but there there are there are a number of references in the papers to his presence at these meetings and sort of trying to get his his views kind of put across so but it but it seems to be that that that when the papers mentioned it was it was for it was often for humorous effect and it was often done to to discredit whatever the whatever the cause of that meeting well he was a regular at all kinds of meetings it could be about the eight hour law it could be about science it could be you know was he there for the free food or I'm joking Eric has a question that he he believes he once read that Norton was going to give a state of the Union speech that never took place do you know anything about this story well he was he was going to give a speech in February of 1860 you know when he when he when he issued his original proclamation you know declaring self emperor he went on to say you know and I call the representatives from the various states of the Union to meet in San Francisco next February at this time this place to hammer this out and when when the date actually approached the forget I believe it was a bulletin actually ran his speech in the words he he gave them a transcript of what he was going to write and they obviously knowing that no one was going to show up they actually published his comments through three days before the appointed day so I don't know if that's what that's what's being referenced here but that's that's the only speech that I that I know about that was that would there were kind of an answer to a sort of state of the Union kind of description but that that is actually a published speech it's in it's in the bulletin in February of 1860 um okay there's a lot a lot of comments here where Sherry asks were there people who didn't like the emperor who might have wanted to attack him with that proclamation with the original one with the original proclamation the Peter I think she's referring to the Peter's proclamation Peter's one yeah no it's a good it's a good question I haven't really considered that I mean whether they're like someone else who who knew that would give him a hot water maybe I you know I've not considered it I just I just don't know I don't I don't think that the emperor was doesn't appear to be considered a threat by many people you know I just it's kind of hard to imagine anyone would go to those lengths um Dave has a question do you know anything about Norton's childhood or his parents relationship with Blacks and South Africa surely that shaped his thinking growing up there yeah the record the record on on South Africa is is so so thin it's really really thin I mean basically all we all we know is sort of where he lived uh that he had he had some business dealings uh in 1840 I think he had his own his own business sort of went belly up within about a year that was when he was in Grammastown and then he moved to Cape Town to go to business with his father um you know his his father was a was a leader of the Jewish community um in in South Africa but but I've never come across anything um you know about about the issue of of black people their rights their lives their politics um well that's one of those things that you'll have to keep digging to find Matthew asks a question um why did Emperor Norton style himself as protector of Mexico was there a particular political thing that happened that made him realize Mexico needed protection yeah there was a 1863 Napoleon in France put Maximilian in place as the emperor of of Mexico and and and that was um basically in a in a hostile takeover situation and so he he the emperor didn't like that and appointed himself as protector of Mexico at one point not long after that uh maybe 1865 or so uh he's stopped um signing his proclamations as you know emperor of the united states and protector of Mexico uh but later on you get you get pretty deep into his in his right if he still is he's using that that moniker so it clearly was something that he he valued even even after it was no longer a a timely um and okay and then uh Matthew's another question are there records about how Norton felt about Native Americans and I think I've asked you something similar about do you know anything about how he felt about the irish or other ethnic groups yeah there's there's there's quite a lot I wish we had time to go into all kinds of stuff yeah there's there's there's there are there are quite a few uh proclamations about about Native Americans and about um um Native Americans getting their lands stolen and mistreated and abused in various ways uh there was a um there was a situation um uh in um in amador counting uh in 18 we don't blank on the date I think it was in the in maybe the early 1870s this was after he started writing for the appeals maybe like 1874 I believe there was a whole there was a whole conflict where where a group uh coming down from um I believe it was Oregon maybe um uh occupied some land in amador county uh in protest of all that was going on and there was a guy who was sort of their ringleader who actually was known as captain jack uh and the us marshals uh you know uh like brought captain jack at his at his serve uh followers uh up on on on marshal law charges and and and we're putting to death uh which they eventually did and the emperor had several proclamations in that moment saying you know this is not going to solve anything if you if you go through with this capital punishment you're only going to inflame the conflict to already exist or or you're only you're only going to exacerbate the hard feelings that exist between Native Americans and powers to be in the United States he was strongly urging against um you know against that as a as a solution which he didn't see it as a solution and at one point um uh issued proclamation urging uh those leaders captain jack and his and his and his fellow leaders to come to san francisco and uh and smoke the calumet with the emperor so so he actually he actually made them an invitation to come and smoke the peace pipe and and see if uh if the emperor kind of helped uh work this out so he was that was another issue he was very very sort of engaged with um it sounds like uh a whole other lecture could be could be um let's see john schmidt has a question and he wonders where can we read emper norton's proclamation in common sense i'm oh i actually i had there's a long post and i'll i'll give it i'll turn i'll give you that link and and okay there's a whole dedicated blog post about it has the entire uh has an image of it as it appeared and has uh the actual text of the thing so you can copy and paste it in old ultra max okay sounds like we have a quite a list of resources to send to people after this after this talk yeah let's we are bumping up on time but let me grab one more question robert asks um what were the changes from the end of the period you talked about until norton's death and the funeral march did did norton's popularity sink during the lawsuit era and then rebound or just yeah it's it's hard to know but i mean i think that the the main index we have is uh what the actual response was when the emperor died you know we have we have the records from the chronicle uh on on the january 11th 1880 so writing up the funeral that take a place a day before uh saying that that the funeral parlor on on uh feral street was inundated and the whole street was was packed with 10 000 people for for hours and so so that would seem to be uh at least some reflection of of how cherished he was and and uh and the comment the chronicle made at the time was that those who came out to see him were uh high and low rich and poor uh men and women people from every uh sort of classification came and and and certainly you know probably many of those would have been just sort of curiosity seekers but it seems like with with 10 000 people uh you know many many many of those were people who genuinely were were starting to see him go and who genuinely genuinely um you know uh were were fond of him and maybe maybe uh wish that they had uh treated them better when they could you know to another free lunch um all right well i we are i don't want to keep you talking too long because you know you get tired and you're not able to answer questions in a thoughtful way um but i just want to thank you for coming and hosting this talk with us offering all of your knowledge it's so interesting to see um the emperor the real guy what was he like um and uh you know get past get past the metals and the the plumage and and see what what he was really thinking and um and i want to thank all of our attendees for coming this event is sort of our kickoff event for san francisco history days um mechanics institute is hosting several events and those are listed on our website mi library dot org slash events if you want to check out what else we have offering what else we're offering um so thank you all for coming and thank you john and uh i look forward to seeing you again in a virtual space thanks for having me all right uh thanks everyone bye