 Good day and welcome back to The First Time Home by Ashour. I'm your host, Estie Klaasen. As you know, we've got amazing content coming to you live every weekday this week. We've got Zaman Tungua Kumalo with the private property podcast. That's live every evening from Monday to Friday at 7pm. And of course Mbaali comes to your screens with the farming podcast at 8pm every Tuesday and Thursday evening. And of course me, I come to your screens every Wednesday at 8pm. That's on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube and last but not least Chad Vaviros, Twers and Zanzi Johannesburg from Danefern Gulf Estate all the way to Sant and CBD. Looks at amazing mansions and houses. That's Chad Vaviros with the Home Shopper Show. That's every Monday and Friday at 8pm. And guys remember you can find us on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube. Also if you have a story to share, let us know, slide in our DMs. We're waiting for you, but without further ado, Nomsa's with me this evening. And guys, I need you to sit back this evening because today's show, you know, we're talking about everything from starting your property journey at a very young age to what is a property portfolio specialist. Nomsa Klabati, good day, good day. How are you? I am doing so well, Esya, how are you? I'm well. You said you were a little bit nervous, why? I think that pressure to be right. Oh yeah? Because you know it's a lot of people who tune in and this is advice that just every day, South Africans are following. You know the economy that we're living in. So we need to give them content that is... Yeah, Nomsa, you're just going deep. The show started like this. Yeah, you're right. I think not so much, I don't want to put you under pressure, not so much about being right because I believe that every lesson that we learn, every little bit of input that you give us is just new knowledge. There's something you know that I don't even know. And just to be in your space, it's such a privilege to learn from you. Because no, there's things you know that I don't even... Haven't even come across. And there are things that you know that I don't know. And I think that's just the point of exchanging information and learning from each other. The man who knows, he knows, knows, he knows nothing at all. Exactly, I like that. I used to say that. I want to talk about, like I said, I even introduced you and I said, you've got into property at a very young age. And you know, 21, right? That's when you started. What was your main influence? So I started real estate at 19. And how that happened was I was running a hair business and it wasn't doing very well and I needed money to pump into it. And I had varsity as well, I had taken care of myself. And I interned at a very amazing company. And when I got there, the boss was like, don't you want to just take over this whole office? Oh wow. I am, I'm tired. And I was like, do you know, do you know that I have no experience? I, you don't even know me. He's like, no, there's something about you. Oh wow. Just do your thing, let's see. And I really had fun running that office until I had to move from the Northwest to a different province. Right. And from that, I also ran somebody else's company. And I ran it by myself. I think that's when people started noticing who Namsa was and this is when I was 21 now. Oh wow. And it was really, it was really an eye opener because from a young age, I knew I wanted to get into real estate. But there isn't enough information about how to get into it, how to make a success out of it. And luckily, I wasn't under that much pressure to provide for family NNN. I was just having fun, I was doing my thing. Oh, you want me to run your company, let's do it. So that's how my journey started. That's amazing because I mean, jumping into these big opportunities, but you know what you did? You took an opportunity. Absolutely. You did what a lot of people are afraid to do. And look at where you are now. So I mean, your property portfolio specialist, what exactly is it that you do, especially for our viewers, who have no idea what that is? So I do exactly what a real estate agent does. The difference between what I, the service I would give you and what a real estate agent would do is that they think, do you know what? Let's just make the sale, let's close this deal. I cannot afford to think like that. I need to know why you're making this purchase and how long do you want to keep this purchase for? What are your current needs? So if it's an investment, I need to make sure that this property would fit well into the portfolio that you're trying to build. So it's important for me to think about what your needs are. If this particular property that you're buying fits into that portfolio and how I can help you build your legacy, build wealth, create an income stream for yourself, you know, that makes sense. Is it a good investment, you know? So what kind of questions would you ask them in your line? So the kind of questions that I'd ask you if you're coming to me for real estate, first of all, is this a primary residence or is it an investment property? If it's a primary residence, what lifestyle are you currently leading and what environment or suburb or town would suit that lifestyle? What kind of neighbors do you need, et cetera? And if it's an investment property, I want to know how much you want to rent this out for. And if those people in that area need that or if they would buy into a 5,000 rand rental or 20,000 rand rental, and then we make decisions based off of that. Would you, as Norm said today, be able to answer the questions you ask your clients for yourself? Could you answer them? Absolutely. So how far are you within your journey of building your property portfolio? I am quite deep in. It's not the easiest journey to be in. And you know, we look at it outside and we think, oh my goodness, she owns that and that and that. But really, it's really challenging if you do not know what you're doing, if you do not have anybody that you're talking to, it's really not an easy journey. What are some of those challenges though? Because I mean, a lot of the times, we hear about the nice things. We hear about how amazing it is that, you know, you've invested in this massive development or you've invested in five properties. And yes, we hear about a little bit of challenges, right? But I want to get to like the raw part of it, like the truth. What is so challenging, like currently with you, if you don't mind changing? So what is challenging with me currently? Late rent payments. And it's not because my clients don't have money. It's just that, oh, do you know what? I'll just see this on the third. And the bank wants their money on the first because that was the arrangement that was made. Rates and taxes need to be paid on the first. You know, there's so many things that go into managing a property and investment that we do not take into consideration when going into it. But there are more perks than there are. Obviously the more pros than cons. Absolutely. So I complained, my mother always listens to me complain about simple things like, you know, then they were drunk and then I need to call somebody at 11 p.m. And then at the end of the month, she's like, sir, can I have your card? You know, and that's what she sees, you know, it's fun for her. And really those are the perks of it. It's really, it's freeing. Yeah, let's talk about, I like that, that you use the word freeing, because free is, you know, it's very, it takes a while for us to get to that point in our life to be entirely free. But let's talk about financial freedom. How has that journey towards financial freedom been for you or are you there? Are you there? I like how these questions are just... So I think that financial freedom, first of all, is a mindset. I've seen clients that make a million random months still feel like they're strapped for cash. I do think that it starts firstly in your mind and then you start to manage your cash flow. When I first started making money, there were no goals. I'd just buy whatever I can get my hands on and as quickly as I can go through the money, let's do it. But I got to a point where it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is not how this is supposed to work. You're not supposed to be feeling like this on the 28th, because your lifestyle does not even require that much. What are you doing? So we don't really think about the fact that we don't need all of these things that we're buying, that we're gathering, all these purses and shoes. Really, we don't need all of them. So it just makes sense that you have a budget set every month. This goes towards shoe addiction. This goes towards lunching with the girls. This is for rent, water, whatever it is, but it's important to manage your finances and do not operate from a mindset that is limited. What was one of your addictions? Like what was one of your lifestyle changes that was so hard to change when you, because budgeting is difficult, girl. Let me tell you. There are things where you're like, no, I can only spend this much. But then you get to that time and you're like, but I really want to have lunch with the girls. So let me just use from the shoe budget and have lunch. Like what was the hardest lifestyle change for you to make within your budget, setting out your budget? I'm gonna be dead honest. My mother. Oh, God. That was really, that is my most expensive asset. What do you call it? And I'm not very materialistic in terms of, I want to Louis Purr's or I want to take a trip to Dubai next week. No, I'm impressed by very simple things. But saying no to family, that is the hard part. That is the part where their budget is exhausted and everything is a need. Everything is a need. This is true. Nomsa, I saw this dress, that dress is a need. Just give it to her. That's very true. So I've had to really sit down with myself and have a hard talk. You can't allow people who do not plan their lives to come in and rearrange yours. It's important for you to stand firm on those boundaries and say, no, this is where it ends. Nomsa, I'd like to go deeper into Black Tax, right? It's a pandemic on its own. And you sort of gave a solution when you spoke about sitting boundaries and that gets really hard when it's your mom or your grandma, right? But I want to talk about, I want to go a little bit deeper and maybe you don't have the answer, but let's chat about how do we as young people of color in South Africa who properties our goal now? I mean, everyone in my circles is talking about property. We're all ready to invest in property. But coming with investment comes more money. With more money, there's more things. There's higher tax. Exactly. The tax, the tax. How do we deal with that? How do we fix that situation, that pandemic of Black Tax? Is it fixable? I'm not sure if it's fixable. I always try and plan... So I'm all about creating legacies. When I talk about or plan the legacy, I think about the people after me. So my siblings, their kids, our kids, the family that I'm going to create with my future husband and so it's important to have those boundaries nonetheless. I would say, and I've seen a few of my clients put these systems in place, what are their needs? So with you, you have your job and you have a set salary. Your boss does not give you more money because you need an extra pair of shoes. So it's important to put systems in place and say, what are your needs? If they are starving, it makes sense. You need to take care of them, you need to buy food, you need to give money for transport and and and but beyond that, luxuries that you expose yourself to and they see that you're living that life, that's for you. You need to pour from a full cup and that's what has worked for me all along. I realized when I said no the first time that actually they can cope. I can do this again and I tried to say no again and again and again and eventually they got to realize, okay, this is where it stops with numsing because this is what she's creating. And I had to have a hard talk with myself because if I do not set those boundaries, I will be them 20 years from now and my kids will have to deal with the same thing that I'm dealing with. So it's either the spark stops here or it becomes a generational curse. So we need to break those things. Oh, wow, no, wait, I'm moved. Because it gets, it's really difficult and I love what you're saying because these are solutions and I think it's just, it's not, and I think saying no has become very difficult for our generation. But I think what's so important to take note of is how we do it. I think there's a method to this madness and to this pandemic that's been left and how are we planning on breaking these generational curses instead of sitting more, adding to these curses. Because at some point we need, it needs to end some way and we know better now. We're living in an internet, this show is on the internet, we know so much more. I think it's important that it stops here. And we're getting so much more information on the daily. Absolutely. I love that, thank you for that. I like that we discussed about it. There's no, and I feel that, figure out what works for you and your family. And like you said, you get a set amount at the end of every month. Taking care of our families, definitely part of our, it falls on our needs list because you know they've done certain things to provide in cater for us, to go to amazing schools and to lay the foundation or the ground foundation so that we can then start creating the generational wealth. And you know what I spoke to a guest a while back and he said something so amazing which is something we need to take note of is that it's a first for a lot of us. It's with the first people to do certain things, with the first to go to university, the first to do a lot of things. So but how do we continue to be the first and to create generational wealth and still take care of what we're leaving behind? Earlier on we spoke about clients who have put systems in place to mitigate or take responsibilities for their families. I think with each family is a different plan. And once we have a vision of how we're gonna handle what's going on here and what we're gonna do moving forward, then you know that's the way to do it. I think with my family, I had to look at them and say okay, so they're okay until here and this is where I need to chip in. I don't come from a poor family and I know a lot of people do. With my family it's not food and lights. It's the extras. My younger sister's school fees or somebody couldn't make rates in taxes this month. But it's not as big as what other people would be facing. But I do think that it's important to have a set budget every month and say we cannot stay here. This is how we move forward and we take care of that first and then we say this is where I can chip in here. Because at the end of the day, particularly with my family, they're not going to die if I can't, but my siblings or a generation after that could suffer because of decisions that I've made right now. So for me it was important to look at that and just be frank about it and say, they can't live like this with everything that I know, with everything that I've built, with everything that I am building. So yeah. I also wanted to find out from you because you're getting into property portfolio management and choosing this specific path, right? Did you see a problem? And because I feel like having a property portfolio manager is a need, honestly. It is. Amongst friends, amongst people in our country, just. Did you see an issue with people around you? Did you see that your job is actually, they need you? So the reason why I got into the work that I got into is in order for us to live wholesome lives, we need to build beautiful communities. We need to go home and be happy to be there. The reason why we are in just very bad situations is really at the core. How we're living, the lifestyles that we lead. Our homes, just simple things. A tenant is coming home and the house is not painted. Windows are cracked, tiles are cracked and it's my job to speak to an owner and say, this is very, there's no dignity in how this tenant is living. And it's important for you to give them dignity so they can thrive in their daily lives. And I think that's why I got into a deeper, even with my higher-end clients because they are the ones that are responsible for building for the lower to middle class. And if they build just small square rooms for people to live there, it's not conducive. That person cannot be their best. They need bathroom facilities that are beautiful as well. They need good paint, they need beautiful tiles. They need trees. And we, I think as a country, we're just so comfortable living in mediocrity that it's become okay to live in a bad space. And we can't have that anymore. I love that you said trees because if you look at spaces we come from, there's no greenery and that's something I've never even thought about because it becomes such a norm. You just assume that this is what it is and this is what you deserve because the people before you had it and the people who look like you have it. So, and that's, I think to get out of, again, it's a mindset to get out of that mindset to do something that takes you away from that, just also to know that you deserve better. Absolutely. And when you know that you deserve better, you give better, you do better. Everything around you, you make it beautiful. I like that, I really do. I see why you got into being a portfolio specialist and I think you, yeah, the first portfolio specialist I've spoken to, which is amazing. I did my own research on what it is that you guys, what it is that you do. And like I said, I definitely think it's a necessity. But now what if I can't afford your services? If you can afford to keep a property, you can afford my services. I charge 10% of how much ever you're getting per month. So even if you're getting 5,000 runs, that's 500 runs per month for someone to make sure to be your eyes, to be your ears, to make sure that the space is amazing. Exactly, yeah. You know, you spoke about you want to continue making investors thrive or you want to continue, even just, and for me, I think the word investors automatically when we're here to be assumed that you've got 10,000 properties around, which is not the case, you know, just one or two or three is even a young investor. So how do you want to, how are you planning on helping us as young investors continue to thrive? So I think the first and foremost is the kind of investments that we're making. I see a lot of aspiring investors send me the craziest properties and call them investments. Oh wow. If you are making an investment, first of all, it has to be cash flow positive. That's first and foremost. You can't come to me with the property and you're paying 10,000 runs mortgage and your tenant is paying you 11,000 runs, you're paying 3,000 runs on rates in taxes, and, and, and, you know, so it cannot take from you first month it needs to give. You need to be building on to that. You can't wait 20 years. Yeah, to finally see, to report you, yeah. Absolutely. So that's the first thing for me. What are you buying? So talk to me about that and see if the strategy that you have makes sense or if we need to devise a new one. And I think what, what's saying that, you know, investors need to thrive and a lot of us doing it for the first time because you're there to help us even if this is our first time. Absolutely. Which is amazing, right? So because a lot of young people like us and it's amazing that we're doing this. We are investing in property. We are not afraid to. But how do we determine or figure out what cash positive is? A lot of us don't even know what that term, how to, to see ROI, how to see the return on investment immediately, you know. Give us maybe some tips on how we can identify that this property or this investment is going to be cash positive. So first of all, if it does have a tenant, how much does the tenant pay? And then all of the expenses minus from that. So if your tenant is paying 10,000 rounds, how much is your mortgage rates, taxes, water, sewer, a property manager and just everything else. So that's how you determine if it's cash flow positive. If it does not, if there isn't any money left over or if there's a, there's a minus left over at the end of that, that's a cash flow negative. Stairway from it. It is not an investment. Actually, it's a liability because properties can also be liabilities. Yeah. And that's actually something that we don't talk about often. Absolutely. And I don't always look at it being a mistake, but I feel like, oh, this is what I wanted to find out from you, right? Is it easy for first-time investors to pull out of a deal? Yes, immediately. Put it back on the markets. Somebody will sell it, somebody will buy it. For purposes not even that you are thinking of. So it is very, very possible. And I think we get so scared because we've given so much and it's so hard for us just to let go of it immediately. I think that's the problem with a lot of people. You cannot tie emotions into any investment. You cannot tie emotions into the decisions that you're making. It can never be an emotional decision. I don't care if it's got the pillars that your mom's house had. You need to let it go if you need to let it go and that's just that. Oh, wow. And how do you separate emotion from your investment? What is one of your maybe methods that you use? I don't think I've ever had a problem with that. Oh, really? No. The thing about money is that it flows. I can't feel anything about it. I think that's why I'm able to let go and welcome money very quickly into my space. I can't think about how I'm feeling about this 200-gen note. It's been passed around 50 million times before me and it will still be passed around after me. So it's just making sure that you are participating in the economy and participation means that you're evolving. Exactly. You're making decisions every day. You're changing. What do I need to do today to get to the me that I want to be tomorrow? And you're doing that. And I think this thing, money, we worship it too much, I think. And I love, because you're reminding me of something someone else taught me a few days ago, right, that you're right, money comes and it goes. I mean, you make this money all the time. But also there's this thing attached to saving and saving in the bank that, you know, that our parents taught us all these years. What is your thoughts on that? Does Warren Buffett have savings? Or does he have cash flow? They have cash flow. The point is to make enough money to gain access to the kind of lifestyle that you need and to make sure that that is evolving. That's just the point of it. Do I have access right now? Yes, how do I gain more access? Wealthy people leverage debt to gain access to that lifestyle, to create wealth. And poor people just buy things and are emotionally attached to things. And it's this, more than imposter syndrome, it's also this need to just, I don't know how to explain it, but we just, we're okay with staying here. Yeah, we're sinking there. And we're afraid of what the future holds or what we could do, what is different. We need to let go of what we've been taught and be able to embrace that newness. That's what's so tricky is unlearning. And you're right, we're so okay with being here. And then once we're here, like there's no... It was scary. Yeah, I mean, who do you know that has a three million round property now? It's okay if it's you. It's okay if it's you, because you need to understand that your life determines everybody that's around you. They look at that and they think, oh, this is possible because as you could do it. Exactly. Or this is not possible because look at where she's been, look at who she's touched, but she still is not where we thought she'd be. So clearly this is normal and clearly this is right. So we need to get out of it. It's more than just about us. Exactly. On that note of people being so stagnant and staying in this one space, how do you define success? So success for me is actually, I don't think it's what people think it is. Success for me is an overall beautiful life where I'm thriving, not just at work. I'm thriving in family, in love, in health. So success for me is living disease free. It's being able to meet up with my girls and they're all okay, being able to buy flowers and take them to my mother and she can smell them because she's still alive. That is what success is for me, just a wholesome life. And what kind of work do you need to put in to get that, to reach that? I think first of all, we need to get out of limited mindsets. We need to get out of mindsets that do not allow for new opportunities to present themselves. And we need to get out of that fear of staying where we are. I think that's the first thing. And after your mindset, you need to look at what you're putting into your body. What are you eating? And what is that doing for you? What chemicals are you? I follow this lady on Instagram, she always tells me the front is for advertising, the back is for health. Now, every time I buy something, advertising may be good, but what's at the back? If it's all these chemicals, what is that doing to me? And the moment we can get rid of chemicals and dirt in our bodies, we can think better. We will speak more politely, we'll be happier. So how do we get out of that and into a better you? And I think what's so important, and we hear this a lot, it's not only the literal food that you eat, it's also the other things you are feeding yourself. What are you feeding your mind? What are you feeding your soul? Because all of this will then take us to, because I feel like you define success. I know you said hold some life, but I also, what I heard in that was, it's a level of, there's a word, like just pure joy, there's a word. Ecstasy. Gosh, it starts with the E though. But there's a word of ecstasy. Yeah, just being so, and humbly, and pure, just everything was just, like you said, wholesome. And to get there, you're right, there's a certain amount of work that we need to put in. Absolutely. Nomsa, because of time, I feel like, we're gonna just keep sitting, I mean, we're in Santon. Two of you is watching, we are in Santon Hotel Apartments, given to us by properties.com, an absolutely amazing apartment. This is where we are, our views are spectacular, I'm sitting with Nomsa this afternoon before we even finish our show. I have a little game that I wanna play with you, right? So what this entails is, I'm going to show you a few houses in the northern suburbs of Johannesburg, and you are going to guess the price range. Okay. If you get them right, you get a PlayStation five, I'm joking, we have nothing to give you. This is just for fun, for vibes, we're just doing it for vibes. So the first house, I'm just gonna let it load quickly. So you watch like a minute, not even a minute, watch the property and see, the only clue I'll give you is the suburb. Okay, suburb. What am I guessing? The price range. Okay. You don't get silent. Oh, I don't get silent, oh my goodness. Ooh, triple volume. This is, wow. This is gorgeous, first of all. This is definitely in Santon. This is in Morningside. Let me give you the area. I wanna watch a little more. Okay, wait, I'm guessing the price range. Price range for this. Let me give you the area and the amount of bedrooms. That's the only clue I'm gonna give you, okay? So you've seen enough. I've seen that property. Okay. Amount of bedrooms, I'll tell you. Ooh, you're very close, not Morningside, it's Bryanston. Okay. Guys. Is it 12 million? Very close, it's 11. Wow. What did you do? How did you get that? I don't know. How did you just guess that? I don't know. I just looked it in thoughts. This may be 12 million. Must be 12. Okay, the next one I'm giving you is in Benmore Gardens, also around Johannesburg, right? Oh, is it? It's just, yeah. Cool, so I'm gonna let you tour through that. Okay. There was even a nice evening shoot. Look at you guys. Ooh, this is gorgeous. Going out of the evening. Ooh, this is gorgeous. Ooh, this is stunning. This is... And you wanna get into luxury property, eh? How many beds? Yes, I'm getting into luxury. I've already started. Nice. So, yeah, it goes. Wow. Benmore Gardens, do you need the bedrooms? Benmore Gardens, yes, please. Okay, let me give it to you. I'm gonna need that, though. You're cozy. Ooh, stunning. This is... It's a tricky one. Okay, let me give you the bedrooms and then you guess. Okay. You're the only guest that gets to keep it for longer than a minute. That's only because I like you. Okay, this one. Four bedrooms. I'll tell you. Yeah, four-story mansion in Benmore Gardens. 18 million. Actually, and you know this has a sky deck, a jacuzzi, a complete cinema, and an entertainment room. I would have also said 18. Go lower. Mm-hmm. 10 and a half. Yeah, on the money, it's 10.5. Are you serious? It's 10 and a half. That's insane. I mean, I can buy that tomorrow. I had a payday. Really? Yes. I would have also said almost 20. Okay, next one, let me give you the area. I think the area of Benmore Gardens, definitely 10 and a half is that part, Rachel. Okay. This one is Dane Fern. Ooh, stunning. Yeah, four-ways. Is it within the estate? Is it within the estate? I'm not telling you that. Too many clues now I'm not telling you. Okay. Okay. Yeah, you go, oh, wait, they're playing a piano. Okay. Here you go. Dane Fern. Oh, man. This is stunning. This is... Hmm. Oh, but that yard is not that big. Can you tell me a square meter? Mm-hmm. Okay, fine. That's too much now. Between 14 and 17. Between 14 and 17 more. Yeah. For real? I have a feeling. We'll give you a clue, come lower. Let's go lower. Eight. Hmm, very close. It's 9.5. Wow. Why would you have said between 14 and... Size? Dane Fern, if it's... The area? If it's a square... If it's a thousand plus square meters, it's within Dane Fern estate. Thank you so much. That was very close. I wish I had something, you know, nice to give you. Maybe next time you come, you'll get... Probably you guess correctly. We should just give you that home. That makes sense. Hey? Yes. And if you get all three, you walk away with three out. No. No, I'm sorry. I'm not Oprah. But just to close off, you know, we heard a lot about leaving a legacy, generational wealth. Yeah. What success means to you? I think it's so empowering to hear these stories from people who are almost your age that have gone through certain things that you've similarly... You've similar things that you've also gone through. So I love that you're inspiring people who are watching as well as myself. But just to close off this word, we spoke about financial freedom. How do you also plan on obtaining those goals? Actually, let's do this. How do you plan on educating those younger than you on what you're doing and how to also leave generational wealth and legacies behind? How do I plan on educating the ones after me? So I've been very quiet. I've said no to a lot of interviews. I've said no to a lot of publications. And that's because I did not want the success to come with the fame. And I'm learning now that this is not about me and how I feel. And that's why I'm here right now. I feel like this is part of me educating and leaving behind just bits and pieces for somebody else to pick up and say, that makes sense. I should do that. That's my next step. And even on my platforms as well, people know that they can access me. They can call me. I am always, always, always available to chat. And sometimes I charge a consultation fee. How do we eat mascot? So basically, that's how I plan on leaving a legacy. I will have. So we've also expanded on prestige property group. We have the prestige academia and we have the real estate University of South Africa underneath the firm for you to gain education from that. So we will have accredited courses. We will have just people that you can talk to who are qualified. Right. More than just me. I think it's so important for us to have mentors. Absolutely. And people who you can look up to and are educating us. Thank you so much. Actually, I don't know that you were saying no to the press. So thank you so much. Because your story means so much. It's changing lives. It's changing people who are watching. So thank you so much. Thank you. Two of you is at home. Thank you so much. Take care. You know that we're live every Wednesday night at 8 p.m. We'll see you there. Take care.