 Bosses of Nerd Night East Bay. This is Nerd Night East Bay number 61. We've been doing this for a while One of the things we like to do is we like to make super discounted tickets for next month's show So if these talks sound appealing to you get on your phones because this is only Zane can you please bring my mic up? All right, hopefully that's louder Sort of I'll fix it for the speaker So we have a few matters of business before we start the show first of all the speakers get paid and beer and love So please give them lots of love, especially tonight. Ah, that sounds better. I could hear myself Give them love tonight. You'll notice that there's no laptop on stage All of the speakers are basically working without notes because we had a last-minute HDMI cable snafu so The show will go on in the back. There's a grilled cheese guy He just started a brick-and-water restaurant So if you're in San Francisco, look him up get grilled cheese there and then get grilled cheese here tonight We love having him here and he comes out because you guys eat likewise We're here because the bar likes having us here because you drink so be sure to grab a drink between all the talks It also makes things like audio or HDMI cable snafu's and audio levels just go a little bit smoother We have a great lineup Before I get started It's now just Scott and I I don't know if people were here last month, but our long-term co-boss Rebecca Cohen Had to move to New York So Scott and I would love your help if you want to help volunteer for the show Come find us if you want to give a talk about something you're passionate about you could be a nerd about anything Sign up. There's an email list next to the library table now on with the show Tonight's lineup is awesome. We have fruit flies. We have Star Wars and we have trauma So I want to talk to you about astronauts not that astronaut, but earth-based Astronauts in particular animals in space anyone know who this is Anyone know what like is famous for? Yeah, she's a dog. She's in space Turns out there were dogs in space since about the 50s. She's the first one to go in orbit around the earth 1957 she's not the first animal to come back alive. In fact, she didn't come up back alive these dogs did in the 1960s, so that's a Belka and Again, I don't have my notes. I could almost read that These dogs went up in 1960 with 42 mice and two rats and they're almost the first animals to leave earth and come back alive This this poor monkey did not beat them. This is Albert He did actually make it back into sub orbit alive, but he had a parachute failure, so But before Albert in 1947 we sent these guys into space So a v2 rocket left white sands, New Mexico traveled a hundred nine kilometers up All these guys on board all of them came back alive The reason we sent them up was we wanted to use these fruit flies to understand how radiation affects DNA It turns out that we've been doing that for a while too This is science articles saying artificial transmutation of the gene Basically in the 40s we started to understand how x-rays affect DNA how Radiation from outer space and high orbital altitudes affects DNA and that's essentially because fruit flies are a really easy animal model and We still send them to space, so this is a call for the International Space Station to send our fruit flies into space Fortunately, not all fruit flies are astronauts some get to have fun research as well, so there's a surprising amount of research on feeding alcohol to flies This this paper may I've shown you a lot of papers here. This science article may have my favorite visual abstract essentially they Let you know flies fall in love or they paired flies that you know wouldn't have sex with this broken heart and Basically put the male and flies from each of those populations into a tube that tube contains some lines that only had food and some lines that only Sorry that had food and ethanol and turns out that the popular presses way of reporting This is much much funnier than the grass and such It turns out if you feed Different flies they'll get drunk at different rates, so that's cool And it also turns out that some of the flies are actually getting real benefits from drinking So in this study, they fed alcohol to fruit flies They saw that these fruit flies did not become as infected by wasps or wasps that had already been infected them Died due to the alcohol exposure, and so wasp into infected flies also drank more I guess to alleviate their pain or to kill the wasps So now to talk a lot more about fruit flies and eating and drinking please welcome to the stage our first speaker That's good. Okay. I'm a graduate student. I'm a graduate student in Kristen Scott's lab at UC Berkeley And in the Scott lab we study an animal that I'm all I'm sure you're all already pretty familiar with because you've seen it Accumulating in your in your kitchens on hot summer days and that animal is of course the fruit fly Drosophila lana gaster What we do with the fruit fly in the Scott lab is use it as a tool to understand fundamental questions in neuroscience Can everyone hear me now, okay Well, yeah, we use this little flight understand fundamental questions in neuroscience and we do it all in this room on the UC Berkeley campus Which as you can see is filled with boxes and boxes of vials and each one of these vials actually contains like hundreds of fruit flies So we spend all of our time here sitting in this room basically looking very carefully at fruit flies That might seem like a strange way to spend your time let alone like the bulk of your 20s But nonetheless in fact around the world there are hundreds of labs that look just like this and they're filled with boxes of fruit flies and Based like 24 year olds looking very carefully at those fruit flies And in the US alone those labs receive hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding So your taxpayer money for the exclusive purpose of understanding how these tiny creatures work So what I'd like to do tonight on the next 20 minutes or so is is two things first I want to tell you a little bit about why we think it's a good idea to study fruit flies And why we think it's a good idea to use your money to do that And then I want to tell you a little bit about what I've learned by studying fruit flies in particular what I've learned about how their nervous systems Regulate a really fundamental decision that every animal including humans makes every day And that's a decision of whether to eat food or drink water I want to start though with this question because the answer to this question is really the reason that We do what we do and the short answer is that people who study fruit flies are motivated by Fundamental mysteries about how the natural world works The mystery that motivates me and that motivates other people who study the the nervous systems of fruit flies is The fact that animals like for example fruit flies and humans In contrast to every other living thing that we know and in fact in contrast to everything that we know of in the universe Have this special property and that property is that Animals do things they move around the world and they interact with each other in a way that's totally unique and I don't see if you ever seen a dog run around in a backyard pretty remarkable So another way to kind of communicate this mystery is just ask the question What's so special about this dog that allows it to run around in the backyard and bark and have fun And what's so special about the the human behind this camera who's taking this movie and then for example Posting it on YouTube that sets that sets these animals apart from everything else in this video Which is essentially inanimate just standing still And so of course obviously people have asked that question for a long time What's special about us and what's special about dogs that allows us to do these weird and amazing things and To a first approximation the answer is that the dog in this video and the person behind this camera Both have a special organ that nothing else in this video has and that organ is the nervous system And actually humans have known for a long time that nervous systems are in a pretty important way The the reason why animals do what they do and the way that nervous systems do that is They take on some information from the external world They do something to that information and then they use it to make animals do stuff like bark or run around in the backyard Or or post things on YouTube or give talks at bars So then the the mystery then really becomes not just what makes animals special But how do nervous systems do the things that they do that that make animals behave in these weird and remarkable ways And in a very real sense This is like the central question of neuroscience today How do nervous systems take an information do something to it and then use that Processed information to make animals do stuff if we want to even have a chance Of answering that question we really need to know three things or to have kind of three tools at our disposal And it's actually not until very recently that we've had all three of these tools The first tool is to have an animal to study And the reason you need an animal to study is that there's no nervous system in the universe that we know of that Doesn't exist inside a particular animal So if you want to study nervous systems, you have to pick a particular animal to study The second tool you need is is a way to observe the fundamental activity of the nervous system Which in the case of animals is the electrical activity of the cells that make up this this organ the cells of course the neurons And finally if you want to be able to Understand the relationship between this neural activity and some behaviors You're gonna want to be able to manipulate that activity and ask What's the effect of that manipulation on on some behavior that you care about So the next few slides I want to kind of go in a little bit of detail how in fruit flies We have achieved kind of all three of these tools So of course the answer to the first question is is fruit flies they are indeed an animal and we can study them Okay, okay closer. Is that is that better? Okay, you should you should just tell me what you can hear. That's okay So on the left here is the head of a fruit fly and about the same scale on the right is The brain of a fruit fly so in magenta Kind of the first thing that is pretty obvious from this picture is that fruit fly brains look kind of weird and very different from And maybe pictures of brains that you see in that represent the human nervous system And that's because fruit flies are very different from humans. So for example, they're they're obviously much much smaller And actually as a result of being smaller, they have many many fewer neurons And as a result of that those neurons can interact with each other via the structures called synapses In many many fewer ways than then for example the neurons in a human nervous system can So the point of the slide is not just that flies are different from humans But in fact, they're they're much the nervous systems of humans Operate by it so for example What neural activity means in a human nervous system is the same thing as what it means in a flies nervous system So that's just the electrical activity of the cells the neurons that make up the nervous system We call that that electrical activity action potentials Neurons communicate with each other in in humans and in flies using actually exactly the same molecules those molecules can be Inhibitory or excitatory some examples are GABA and glutamate And finally some some molecules that we actually associate with like pretty complex emotional states in humans Are actually also found in fruit flies and at the extent that we can understand They're doing exactly the same thing in fruit flies that they're doing in humans So for example flies get diabetes and that's because they they don't use their insulin properly Okay, so the take on message is that They're the same fundamental principles and one result of that is that fruit flies actually do Fundamentally many of the same things that humans do so for example, they When they get thirsty, they will seek out and consume water When they get hungry, they'll seek out and consume food And when they get tired, they'll take a nap Food flies also do some more kind of complicated behaviors that maybe will will surprise you maybe not I don't know For example fruit flies fight they fight in much the same way that humans fight by boxing hitting each other in the face This is a picture of two male fruit flies boxing over a food source Fruit flies also sing so they don't sing with their vocal cords like like humans do because they don't have vocal cords But they sing with their wings and the songs that they create are actually quite sophisticated And finally the behavior by far that flies spend the most time doing is is cleaning themselves is grooming It's actually fruit flies are among the cleanliness cleanliness of insects Maybe even more so than humans, but that's maybe a story for a different day So to kind of summarize what we need to understand nervous systems while we need a good organism to study and so far Hopefully you'll agree with me that fruit flies are at least a pretty good pretty good organism to pick But it turns out that there are two more reasons why why flies are not only just a good organism to pick to try to understand nervous systems They're a pretty excellent one and the first reason is that If we want to be able to observe and manipulate neural activity We're gonna need to engineer some genes to be able to To be able to observe and manipulate neural activity and it turns out that in fruit flies Engineering genes is easier than it is in any other organism So I want to tell you about an extra slides are two tools to engineer genes that I've used in my own research to and that Everyone in fact who studies fruit flies uses if they want to understand their nervous systems and those tools are Two engineer genes one of them allows us to observe neural activity and one of us one of those Tools allows us to manipulate neural activity. Okay, so the first tool is called g-camp. This is an acronym I honestly forget what the letters stand for but it doesn't matter. It's just some engineer gene It has some name arbitrary That engineer gene encodes a protein which looks like this cartoon that I'm showing you here and what this g-camp protein does is Turn green if it's inside a cell that is filled up with calcium Why is that useful? It's useful because it turns out that being filled up with calcium is one of the best Indicators that you can have that a neuron is active is firing action potentials So if we put this g-camp molecule in a neuron We can actually indirectly monitor its activity just by looking at whether this molecule is fluorescing or not Okay, so I can kind of show you what that looks like. I want to contrast G-camp to another engineer gene that you may have heard of it's called GFP or green fluorescent protein You can think about GFP is kind of a dumb version of g-camp it fluoresces But it'll fluoresce no matter what's going on around it So for example, if you put that in the neuron or in the nerve in every neuron in the nervous system of a fruit fly larvae Which I'm showing you here The that larvae's nervous system will turn green That can be really useful if you want to understand the the anatomy of that nervous system But it's not so useful if you want to look at the activity of the neurons that are that are green That's what g-camp allows us to do So for example if you put g-camp instead of GFP in every single neuron in a larval flies nervous system and then you took a movie of that nervous system as For example Thank you. Thank you So if you took a movie of a nervous system in which every neuron was labeled with g-camp or expressing g-camp Then you followed a fruit fly larvae that was for example crawling around you would see something that looks like this If the clicker will work here, yeah So you'll see these beautiful patterns of Neural activity as fluorescence changes over time and what we're watching here is literally the entire nervous system at work and we can try to understand these patterns of neural activity by by By trying to understand these patterns of fluorescence changes of g-camp So g-camp is a tool that we use to monitor neural activity and fruit flies as well as in other organisms Yeah, and there's that So second tool that is really essential to studying nervous systems and that I use it in my own work Is another engineer gene. It's called channel rhodopsin This gene encodes again a protein that looks like this in cartoon form The channel part of the channel rhodopsin name Comes from the fact that this protein forms a channel and the membrane of a neuron if you put it inside a neuron And ions can go through that channel and when they do essentially the neuron becomes electrically active and it turns on and fires action potentials The rhodopsin or the r part of this name comes from the fact that like the rhodopsins in our eyes These channels are sensitive to light and in fact the channel will only open if you shine a particular wavelength of light on it This is super useful in flies because their skin their exoskeleton is translucent So we can actually shine light on them and the light will pass through the cuticle and hit whatever neurons are expressing Channel rhodopsin and those neurons will turn on and in that way we can test the role of those neurons in and its behavior And it's got like we've looked for neurons that regulate this behavior and we've tested the role and test its role or observe its activity The reason we can do that is because the community of people who study fruit flies have decided Few years ago about I guess a decade ago to put all the effort into making Fly strains at once that would express G camper channel rhodopsin in any neuron that we wanted to study And then make that resource available to everyone else who studies fruit flies So the result of all that work was a library or rather four libraries So there's there's one in Illinois one in Virginia one in Vienna and one in Kyoto These are libraries not of books, but of fruit fly strains There are over a million of them and Each strain has been specifically engineered so that the flies from a given strain express Can express either channel rhodopsin or g camp in a particular neuron type that we might want to study But in no other neuron types So for example here are 12 of those approximately million strains in magenta is the brain of the fruit fly And in green are the neurons in each of these strains that express either g camp or channel rhodopsin This is a really useful resource because if you have a behavior that you care about and that you want to study In principle, you could go one by one through each of these lines in a live fly activate the neurons that are Expressing channel rhodopsin in each of those lines and ask is the behavior that I care about influenced in some way So that's kind of a slow Stupid approach, but it's a pretty good one because if you work long enough You're very likely to find something that will be relevant for the behavior that you're interested in So to summarize this part of the Presentation I've told you that flies are a pretty good way to learn about how nervous systems work I think actually they're not just a pretty good way They're one of the best animal models that we have to understand how nervous systems work And one of the reasons for that is that in fruit flies we can learn about nervous systems using engineered genes In a way that we can't really do in any other any other animals So in the last few minutes, I want to tell you about kind of a real-world example That comes from work that I've done in the Scott lab that you see Berkeley this real-world example is Kind of a study whose purpose was to try to understand the neural regulation of this essential behavior That's required for the survival survival not just of fruit flies, but of almost all animals including humans And that's the ability to eat food and drink water one of the most essential things that all animals do The key questions of this study were first of all, what are the neurons that are important for those behaviors and fruit flies? And second, how do they work? How do they regulate the ability of fruit flies to eat food and drink water? So to answer this first question which neurons are important actually I along with a colleague in the Scott lab Brendan Malini We actually just searched through exactly that library that I told you about and we used exactly the approach that I just mentioned We went one by one through a few thousand of these lines and live flies activated the neurons that expressed Channel rotopsin in each of those lines and we asked does that influence the ability of the fly to eat food or drink water? That was obviously a lot of work, but it was worth it because we came across a line in which Which I'm showing you here. This line has just four neurons in the entire nervous system. They're in green here Only four neurons in the entire nervous system in this line express either channel rotopsin or g-camp So we can very specifically ask the role of these neurons in the behaviors that we care about And what we found is that In fact, if you activate these neurons if you turn on their activity in fed flies Then those flies will behave as if they're hungry even though they're fed And that I'm showing you that this is the real data here on the y-axis is the amount of time that flies spend Consuming a food source one molar sucrose when given the opportunity to do so And white is what a normal fly would do kind of the distribution of what normal flies would do And in magenta is a distribution of what flies would do if these four neurons are activated So if you activate these four neurons flies actually eat about twice as much as a normal fly even though they're actually not hungry So that was really exciting because it meant that these neurons maybe played a role in regulating food ingestion in flies But what was even more exciting about these neurons is that if we gave these flies water instead of one molar sucrose Actually, there was an exact opposite effect on ingestion of water when those neurons were activated And that meant that these four neurons were sufficient not just to increase food ingestion But also to suppress the ingestion of water so that this opposing effect on ingestion depending on what the fly was tasting And that was really interesting because it was kind of an observation that had been made a long time ago in the 60s But had never really been followed up on and here using these genetic tools and fruit flies We had again observed this reciprocal effect on a food and water ingestion So to try to understand the kind of the second key question in this study, which is how are these neurons? Causing this effect on on food and water ingestion We turn to this genetic tool G camp So we hypothesized that maybe these neurons were sensitive to some key internal signals for hunger and thirst And it turns out that in in flies as in as in as in humans The key internal signals of hunger and thirst are almost identical So the key internal signal for thirst in both flies and humans is a change in the osmolarity of our blood And osmolarity is just a different word for what the water content of our blood is So when the water content goes down and our blood and the blood of food flies That's the key signal that the nervous system senses to tell us that we're thirsty The second key signal which is a signal and not of thirst, but of hunger is a protein It's a small protein which we like to call a peptide sometimes and it's called glucagon You might have heard of it. It has the opposite effect of insulin and in both humans and fruit flies glucagon Plays a really essential role in signaling hunger So we try to test that hypothesis. In fact, we did test that hypothesis by putting G camp in these four neurons Using a microscope to take a movie of their activity as we either Changed the extracellular osmolarity around those neurons or applied glucagon to them this small protein And this is what that this is the data that we we got from that experiment Think I'll maybe I'll back up and start again Sorry. Yeah, okay Sorry, I haven't been kind of quiet But the result is that when we change the extracellular 200 milos mole units really greatly increased Like a prenatal thing because I still thought that the brain developed In utero, but really it's a result of chronic childhood trauma So You've probably heard when you think about trauma the first thing you've probably heard is fight or flight There's also freeze and a couple of other responses, but I'm not really going to talk about those Because it gets more complicated because it's not actually affected by the sympathetic nervous system It's affected a little bit differently like your natural opiates and things like that, but I will talk about fight or flight so the first thing that happens when you experience even a huge stress is Your amygdala gets triggered like holy shit something stressful is happening and then the amygdala Tells the hypothalamus like holy shit something Stressful is happening. You've got to kick in the sympathetic nervous system and what this does is Raises your heart rate slows your digestion. You'll see people's pupils get bigger pretty much when you think of like anxiety or like Stress, that's what's happening. So normally once the stressor is gone and in an acute situation The gas gets shut off by the break the brakes put on and the parasympathetic nervous system brings things back to homeostasis so in In the wild you'll see this like Robert Sapolsky talks about this and why Zebras don't get ulcers They'll be like running through the savannah and some lion tries to eat them and they're running and they get away And then the next thing you know they're like calmly like eating some grass or drinking some water because their break has kicked in They don't need to run away anymore but if the stressor doesn't going away your body then triggers the HPA access which is sort of like a loop that then Keeps the body keeps the sympathetic nervous system going We're not wired for that level of stress and then eventually cortisol is released. So if you hear people talk about Like autoimmune illnesses or other things like that, which I'm going to get to some of the effects. That's what's happening. It's a The HPA axis is producing cortisol And it's not shutting off Sorry my foot I'm in a lot of pain and I'm trying to remember things while my foot's hurting I can do this though. Okay Now I'm good Normally I'd be walking all around so it's probably good for you that I have to stand here Okay, so you can't really see this slide very well. It's kind of Amazing how hard it is to find a slide of the enteric nervous system So this is sometimes called your second brain your gut is sometimes called your second brain So this system consists of your brain your gut and your microbiome. So it's a bidirectional Science I'm fascinated by this So this all of this your microbiome is affected there's three bacteria in particular that they found are affected by chronic stress and It actually affects the immune system Moving away from like what happens biologically to what the consequences of this are These are just some of them. There's a lot if you go to the ace's connection Are the and the CDC aces study? They're doing a lot of research on Flood in some ways because it's talking about only 10 different kinds of stress chronic stress and how it leads to later outcomes But the science is there so psycho-emotional Anxiety ADHD other learning disabilities Normal person under enough chronic stress hypervigilance hypervigilance is when you're caught in that HPA access where your sympathetic nervous system not being shut off and you're just like freaking out at things that normally in your right mind you would freak out about but on the opposite end of that is Really More there's research showing that people who had chronic stress as a child are more prone to being victims of Domestic violence or other kinds of violence as an adult. They're also more likely to be accidents And then medically there's been the research especially the ace's research tying chronic childhood stress Because your heart your the sympathetic nervous system is not supposed to be Be city cancer auto-immune illnesses and most of the cancer and the auto-immune illnesses in the IVS are due to the I wanted to explain for people who work familiar with this model. I wanted to explain the basics of like what The narrative is about trauma, but part two of this is the problem with trauma in a different way, so Western medicine and Western psychiatry in general is seen as The science the only science but it can be pretty problematic and although it can be helpful to Understand that like maybe my amygdala is too big and that's why I'm really stressed out. It can sometimes cause more problems than it So So Super racist way of explaining other people's cultures the way they define mental illness as being this like exotic thing that's like Like usually So Describing a specific type of like Mental illness that is culturally bound But we use that word a little bit in English so When I think of Trauma as a culture-bound syndrome I think about the two things that Western psychiatry in general Western medicine really likes to apologize the person the person like that's behaviorally or biologically damaged Their brains didn't develop correctly. So I often hear people are like I've just got a diagnosis of CPTSD And it's good to know that I have this mental illness and that my brain didn't develop correctly It's like is that really the effective way of thinking about the situation and then for marginalized communities Western psychiatry and Western medicine in general has really built itself on the black slaves or just anything else It's like it's marginalizing scientifically the other and one of the examples of this UC Berkeley and I'm at UC Berkeley and Stanford are pretty complicit in this like 5,000 children were sterilized in the day area So from the 1927 I think so the science of inferiority is deep so when we use this model of like This person experience chronic stress So they are biologically damaged So they don't know how to compare themselves and they need to be fixed by outside It's not necessarily putting the blame where blame is due. So in my work, I really talked about context So Phenon talked about the sociology of Psychopathology So he talked about the importance of not looking at the person who's suffering from the mental illness But taking a step back and looking at the context Which causes that and that maybe it's not the person who has the problem Maybe it's the context that has the problem so sticking with the Phenonian for those of you don't know Phenon, he was a black psychiatrist in the 50s He was a colonial psychiatrist and really studied how colonization affects affected the black tolerance and saw that the psychopathology that other people were diagnosing Using that as a backdrop thinking about it in modern times with the population I work with, I work with young people who are incarcerated or formerly incarcerated So when I talk to people and I try to explain that what if you spent your whole child to worried that the cops were going to shoot you And then you actually see this around you see people in your community get shot You see it on TV, you see it like around so it's a it's the definition of trauma because it's a perceived threat of death So if that young person ends up having symptoms whether it's a outward aggression Inward aggression for substance use, because substance use is actually with young people is tied to to anxiety, so they're trying to deal with their anxiety Is it the kid that's fucked up or is it the society that's fucked up? Right, so the Phenarian, the coal mine, so For those of you who aren't mine, it's really a thing, a good idea But it was the idea that if you bring a canary, a sentient being down into the coal mines with you If it stopped singing or if it died, it meant that you probably should get out of the coal mine because there's toxic gases there So is it right to blame the canary for dying or was it the not-just gases that made it die? So really in my work, I really tried to take that step back instead of apologizing the young people I work with It's like, well, what caused what happened to happen, not your amygdala Around this, it's sort of when I read about it, it's really minimized that these epigenetic changes are actually adaptive changes So it's we humans want to survive so even on a like an epigenote genetic level We want to survive So these adaptive changes that may seem like the over-reaction of the sympathetic nervous system These like brain development changes, all these things are actually adaptations to try to deal with a like chronic stress That no human should have to deal with. So is it the problem with the person who's trying to adapt or is it the problem with the world that is So fucked up that it's hard to adapt So Instead of like I really am trying to move With the young people I work with to move away from the sort of trauma informed like we talk about trauma informed all the time But there's a lot of inherent racism and pathologization that happens with trauma informed So it looks at the individual as being damaged as opposed to looking at the individual as being So awesome that on a cellular level, they are adapting to change So I'm really trying to change that narrative. I think about Like it's no measure of health to be seen in society. He only begins with a word This is my one of my favorite quotes by Alice Walker if instead of trying to heal the individual who gets the diagnosis of developmental trauma or PTSD or the other I was always told when I was younger when I was first working as a counselor that you probably could take the whole And condense it into maybe like Because really you're just reiterating the same But when I was working with young people pretty much all the things that I saw that were like mental illness were actually So Alice Walker's quote makes me think of Instead of trying to fix the kid or fix the people or fix ourselves those of us who have that diagnosis Maybe we should be looking outwards and fix the causes of the things that cause us to chronic stress Okay, so that's it and if anyone has any questions remember it's really complicated. I can talk about methylation I can't do that any more complicated. I'm just gonna tell you it's really complicated because I am an educator Education is really moving into trauma informed models. Oh Can I repeat the question? What is education? What should education do about this meaning schools? By the time we're in college There was a study that just came out that said that That grad students have a higher Chance of mental illness just like seriously you had to do a study about We all could have told you that We're talking about K-12 so right now schools are really trying to like take on these trauma informed models And they are really dangerous because now we have teachers who are not Experts and however we think of like experts. They're the ones now diagnosing kids so Now kids are getting the label of this sort of like biologically damaged kids I don't know what the solution is But I feel like the stuff needs to be taken back and the sort of like inherent racism and other problems in the education system need to be dealt with before we can deal with like How are we treating our kids? I mean on one hand it seems like it's better. We're moving away from the school to prison pipeline Right, so we're not like punishing kids because we think they're criminals, but now we're diagnosing them because we think they're brain damaged So is it really better? So I don't know the solution is I just know that where we're going is not So there's a trauma and education conference, I mean there's so many things that happen at our school that Yeah, I'm actually going to give a Go to a meeting where they're trying to really get county-wide trauma-informed models and all the schools Hopefully I'm now an expert enough that like they'll listen the best you can do is come up with Compensate or what's happening, but as in the past few years They're really doing more research on them. You have neurogenesis throughout our lives. So even as adults where the belief was Sorry, that's Probably on that biological level we'll get more of an understanding of how we can undo But until the things this for me the way I see it is until those stressors are changed How is the person supposed to be able to change? You talk about like resilience The kids need to have resilience, they need to learn to self-regulate, but if nothing else is changing on the outside I don't know how much it's going to be able to change. Paging children is traumatizing and it actually Fucks the world into that same traumatizing situation they were in before so it compounds the effects Like what I didn't mention is like trauma there's a dose relationship to trauma so the the severity the frequency and The intensity of the trauma affects like it's in direct relationship of how much like how many consequences you're gonna have I guess if you look at it that way so throwing a kid in jail I mean throwing a kid into solitary confinement because they're having a trauma response of violence is Traumatizing So the kids most of the kids that are in the Like violent offenders really when you look at it They're actually the ones that have the most trauma than any other children. Oh, no, there's a fight. Are you gonna fight it out?