 Hey ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us. This is another episode of King Penny's podcast. This is not a numbered episode. This is a special, a special that we bring to you, you know, here in the community, you know, in the city of Longmont, there is a maybe a lack of compassion or understanding of what people have going on regarding addictions and things like that. I have brought in a very special guest to speak her story and tell us, you know, how we can support her, how she's moving forward and also to, you know, her motivation and things like that. Things along the line of the King Penny's podcast, you know, that is the main thing. We're staying on script. We're staying in our lane and we're getting the truth out, you know. So with no further ado, I would like to present our guests. My soundboard's messed up, so I apologize, you know. All right, so let's start off with your name. My name is Ali B. Ali B. AKA Penny. Okay, the real Penny. She's got the real Penny. The real one. I heard that. So where are you from originally? Born in Denver, raised in Boulder. In Boulder, okay. And so talk about your family a little bit. What's your family look like, your dynamic? We have a great family, actually. Very supportive. I was looking over at her. My mom, my brother, my dad. I have six beautiful children. A dog. Cougan. But we have a very close-knit family. I went and trade them for the world. And just so you know, like, so she's kind of looking off camera a little bit, her mom is here, you know. She brought her mom here, and her mom is very supportive of her. And so she decided to show up today, too. So she'll be here later on, and things like that. So what do you do? What do you do for a living? What does your day-to-day look like? Well, I just moved back here to Colorado a week ago from Ohio. And I just picked up a job yesterday, working in Goodwill in Boulder. Congratulations. Thank you. And I also applied for a place in Longmont. We'll see about that, though. But and I helped my mom at her school. That's cool. You're being proactive, though. That's good. You've got to keep on going forward and things like that. I like to stay busy. So you say you just moved back? Or was that, where were you at? I was in Ohio. Oh, okay. And how long have you been out there? Oh, March. Yeah, I moved out there in March and came back last week. Okay. Why'd you decide to come back? Things just weren't working out out there. I went to stay with my biological father and just didn't work out. Okay. Did you guys have a relationship beforehand? Rocky, at best. Yeah. Yeah. It was very rocky. Okay. So what made you decide to go out there? I guess desperation. I was getting really, really, really, really bad in drugs. Died a couple times. And it was kind of like, I need to get away from Colorado in order to have that peace of mind. Pretty much like a sanctuary, I guess, to get me right, to get my mind back on track. You said died a couple times. I did. I overdosed a few times. About eight. Oh, okay. Also, like what? Fentanyl. Fentanyl? Oh, okay. Because that seems to be like very prevalent here in Longmont right now. Actually, where I used to be, yeah, before I went back to jail. Oh, so you've been in jail before? Many, many times. Oh, okay. Yeah, for like the last, oh, I don't know. Six years have been in and out of Boulder County Jail. Okay. Yeah. Might ask for what for? Deft. Deft. Yeah. Deft and some, I recently picked up a drug charge, but it wasn't, it was a misdemeanor. So you currently lack on probation? Yes. I am on probation for larceny, which is theft for two years. Yeah. But I only have like a year and some change left. And if I keep doing really, really good, I can have a reconsideration. So don't terminate me early, hopefully. Okay. And how is probation going right now for you? Well, considering my history, I've never done probation. Every time they've given me probation, I run within a day. But I've kept to it, followed every rule, you know, everything. I've been on point. With probation, because I don't, I don't want to go to prison. And that's my literal next spot. So that's what keeps you motivated from not, not going to prison? That, yeah. It is a part of the motivation. Yes. That is very big motivation, but my kids are my main motivation. That's going how old age is? Oh, gosh. Well, there's six of them. And they age range from 18 to four. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Okay. Look here, that almost made me ask a question. I know not to ask one, like, how old are we talking here? Oh, okay. All right. Look, I didn't want to be, look, I asked it, but I didn't want to be the one to ask, you know. I appreciate you being open about that. Yeah. So, so you're 35. You have kids 18 and under. When was the first time that you used? Oh, I was 10. Yeah. I was kind of messed up, but I was at a neighbor's house in our, we live in a really nice neighborhood. So you wouldn't think that that kind of stuff would happen, but we were drinking, you know, underage drinking, and one night she was really drunk and decided to put some cocaine out on the table and said, hey guys, come join me. So that was the first time I ever did coke. Was that 10 years old? Well, yeah, that's tough. That's tough. And so it kind of just, well, I mean, that's already, the progression is already up there after that. But so when, so when did it go into even harder things? Oh, um, or what were the harder things that you after coke? I mean, I guess that came next. And that was right after I lost my daughter, my first daughter. I gave her a production when she was, I think, six months old. I believe, can't really remember, it's been 18 years. But gave her a production and they, I don't know, social services put me through the ringer. So I kind of went down a spiral. But well, I don't want to say that, though, because really it started when I was in a drug rehab when I was 13 to 15, from marijuana and court aid and oh, no. Okay. And my brother and I both went to rehab and it was kind of a cult. It's crazy because I just found out that there's actually a documentary on the programs that I was in. And we were pretty much taught to believe that that everything that outside of the group was bad, even family, family members, everything, old friends, bad. So I stayed with that group for two years, give or take. And when they decided that they didn't want me in the program anymore, they piqued me out. And it was probably one of the hardest days of my life because I lived, breathed, drank their potion or, you know, Kool-Aid. And it was really hard, really, really hard. It sounds like it. So you said, did your brother also struggle with addiction? No. I mean, no. But he did at the point when you guys were younger? No. No? He just kind of tackled with you? It was kind of one of those weird situations. Mom, is that okay if I talk about it? Okay. Where my brother's best friend's parents freaked out when they found out he was smoking weed, sent him to Cornerstone. Oh, okay. And that's the one? There was a Westminster? Oh, okay. Okay. Well, they have the Lapland, Westminster, Littleton. And I just found out they still have one. I don't even know. I don't know where it is. I thought all of them closed down. But so it was kind of like the cool thing to do at that time was like go to Cornerstone. I don't know. Kind of a weird situation, but it turned out to be, you know, one of the best times in my life, but also one of the worst. And I just want to be clear too, like we don't have any affiliation with Cornerstone or anything like that. This is just her, you know, story about her experience with them. So yeah, I just kind of throw that out there. Look, Cornerstone, try holler at me. They say, you know, I'll be drinking the potion full time, full time. Hey, this is sponsored by, you know, just to pay them back. But it's tough. It's a rough start, rough go, you know what I mean in life. So as you progressed, you got older, drugs get harder? Or actually it was kind of weird. So I, after I had my daughter and give her for adoption, I moved to Denver with some friends and dabbled in meth for a little bit and I completely went sober for like about 10 years. Had like a whole stint of sobriety where I mean I drank a little bit, but like not much. Or, you know, I played with painkillers a little bit, you know, housewife stuff kind of thing. That's crazy, housewife stuff, okay. But it's a real thing. And when I got divorced from my husband, I ended up meeting my husband, had a daughter with him, divorced him, started drinking really heavy. Met another guy. God, that makes me sound so bad. And he, we would have like competitions, like to see who would get drunker faster, so the other one would have to take care of the kids. Terrible, terrible, I know. But it was when I realized what we were doing that I was like, I'm done drinking and I went completely sober. I mean like nothing, I did nothing. Raised my kids for about seven years and I had two more on top of that. Three more, sorry, three more. And, you know, played the happy housewife mom role. I believe I worked a little bit in that time. I don't really remember. But yeah, we, I just, I did the sober thing for a long time and then should just hit the pan. What do you mean? I had a job and needed to be, you know, fast-paced. So I started using meth again. And kind of did the effort moment, like, you know, I don't, I don't know how to say it without. Yes, I got wicked. You know what I mean? Kind of just didn't care. Yeah, I stopped caring. I lost like 80 pounds in three weeks. And so he drove home here to Colorado. And when he got here, I just was like, you know what, you want the kids? Have them. I'm out. And I took off, came back a couple hours later because cops came to the house. And I was like, you know, I'll check myself in to rehab tomorrow. You know, I'm not okay. And so that next day, he took me to the hospital to check myself in and then left. And I didn't see him again in the time that I was at the, I ended up going to a mental institution in Louisville. And it was really hard. You know, I thought he was going to be there to support me and have my back and he wasn't. And I literally got my car. I left my kids, him. I said, I gotta go. And I left. And I didn't turn back for six years. Like, I had no relationship with my children. I was on and off with my second oldest. Me and her father were kind of doing the sharing custody thing, but like in a weird way. And then he kind of went AWOL and I went full custody of her for a while. But in that timeframe, I had met another man and he was my kryptonite. And I guess you could say we started dabbling in pills, oxys back then. And we got really heavy into it. I didn't have my kids at the time. So it's kind of, you know, a little hard in the paint. And when they took oxy cotton off the market, we kind of freaked out and we turned to heroin right after that. And that's when I, I don't even know. It was really weird time. It was like, I was a functioning heroin addict. And that is a real thing. I know it doesn't sound like it's a real thing, but it actually is. You can be a functioning heroin addict. And then one day he went to jail and everything just kind of went crazy. And I just kind of lost control of everything. I even had a great job. I had a house, a car, my two beautiful kids. I had had another son and just left them, just took off, went on the run, never looked back. And it's been, it's been four years until now. So might I ask, you know, this might be a difficult question, yeah. Where is your relationship at now with your children? Where is that at? Rocky at best. I mean, my oldest daughter and I just read Reunited, my 18 year old. So we're kind of feeling each other out a little bit. My second oldest. I'm gonna cut you off right here. Sorry about that. After talking, you know, we want to take out a piece of this interview to protect the innocent. And we have added mom in and I'll let her introduce herself and ask her a couple of questions. So let me get the name. I am DeeDee, I'm Ellie's mom and proud to be so. I heard that. Look at it. The support is great. So I want to ask you, so it's a two-part question, but I asked the first part first. Okay. So what has been the impact of her drug use on you? And the family as a whole? The emotional impact is incredibly difficult because you're losing your tile. You don't know when you'll see her again. You don't know if you'll see her again. When she owed even jail, they didn't call us. I found out a week later. So she died and I didn't know it. So for the last, I don't know, seven, eight, whatever many years it's been, it's been just an emotional struggle to maintain in my heart the thought that I will get her back someday. And when she first started going south, I thought the one thing I have to do is maintain communication with her. I never want her to feel that she would be tossed again for what she was doing or for any reason at all, that I would always be there, that I would come, get her no matter where she was, then raise to me the bus at night on the diagonal. I have to know the bus driver and I'd be like, is she down there? And he'd say, yeah, she's here. And I think Allie has always known that no matter how tough it got, she could call us and that we would be there. And that's hard because there's a part of you that you just want to slap her around and say, stop. If I thought it would work, I would have done it. But it's something that, you know, they have to come to it on their own, sort of. I mean, we tried paying tons of thousands of dollars for a drug rehab. It didn't work. She wasn't ready. And so you don't not try, but you have to acknowledge that they are who they are. I mean, she's had a lot of loss in her life. We talked about this in the break that most kids don't go through what she went through. And when you talk about adopted children, and both our kids are adopted, and we knew that Allie's probably feel alcohol, and we knew that our son might never walk and might be deaf and might have cerebral palsy. And it was like, okay, we'll take them. That's right, but you know, they was a baby, you know, and you're given the best that you can. You're loving the pieces. And so I had no idea that the problems were going to be in this extreme, but I'm also a fighter, you know, and I'm fighting for what I believe and that is this kid right here, right? Absolutely adore. And Allie and I have a great relationship, always have. I'm really hoping that this is the time. It's one day at a time. So my next question would be, what advice would you have for other moms or families or friends who are in your position? Like, would you tell them to persevere through it? Would you tell them to give up? Would you tell them to wait till they're ready? Like, you know what I mean? Nobody has an answer to that. That's a complicated question. But what advice would you give? I would say never give up. You know, the love that a parent has for a child is something that in my book never goes away, you know? And so there might be times when, and I'm not good at this, you might have to say to your child, I can't be around you right now, you know? But we finally, you know, her dad talked me into this, you know, we have to be tough, we have to be tougher. And it was, if you're using it, you can't come to the house, you know? So I would say to parents, don't ever give up on your kids. Love them, let them know that they're loved, even though addiction is not something they're doing wrong. It's a serious illness of your brain and your emotional state that you get dysregulated and you handle it with drugs. I don't look at it as a wrong thing, you know what I mean? I can't judge it in that way. But what would you, what would be the pushback to some parents who say, hey, pitch your stuff together, then come back? Like, what would you, like, how would you, like, you know what I mean? Like, if a parent was to say that to their child, like, would you agree with that as well or? They know their kids, you know? And I think that they have to do what feels right for them. You know, by the same token, when Allie started going south and she broke into our house one time, so then we put, you know, we put- Look how I look at you. Yeah, right. No, joking, no, I'm not joking. It was a funny thing. Well, I've heard a noise downstairs and he went to the top of the stairs and he smelled her perfume and he said, Allie, is that you? She was hiding. She'd taken her credit card to get gas and then he was trying to sneak back in the house to return it. So she got caught doing the fright thing. The fright thing. Oh my goodness, Christ. I'm so proud of myself. You've got to answer my name, too. I think a good sense of humor is so helpful. So as you- Not that it's a laughing matter. No, it's a, it's definitely really serious, but to see you guys and how you support each other is amazing, but I will ask you this. You've been sitting on the sidelines watching a lot of this and listening to a lot of this. Do you have any thoughts? Because I know the main, like, so we took out a portion. I don't want to hear your thoughts on that and you don't have to name why or anything. I want to hear your thoughts on why the decision was made to take out that portion and also your thoughts and comments on the rest of what you've heard so far. So I think certain sections are a little touchier because they involve children. And I think that every child needs to believe that the parent who is taking care of them is a good person who has their back. And so, you know, all people struggle in relationships on and off. I mean, that's just life, you know. But I think to dive into that too specifically is not good for the kids. So I think that children have a right to feel safe and secure in their relationship with whatever parent they're with, you know. Because another thing too is, like I said, I was glad you're here because I never, like I told you in the very beginning when I first met you, like, hey, look here. And you know, I'm not to give females too much credit. Hey, you guys put eyes on things a little bit better than us guys. You know what I mean? Like, we just see, oh, okay, got you there. Like, you know what I mean? You guys can, I guess, look further, have a little bit more of like, sight down the line and things like that. And so I really appreciate you stepping in and talking to her because I don't want to make it look like I took anything out or I didn't, you know what I mean? Or I edited this part out and everything like that. I want to know that it was Ali's choice in the end. Yeah. But you know what I mean? You did say, hey, might want to think about this and might want to. So that was good. That was good to have in the room, period. This is why I wanted her here. Yeah. So it was really good. I think watching the whole thing, too, is interesting because even though I've lived so much of Ali's experience with her because we've always had open communication and that is so key, we've always had a relationship, but sitting here watching her tell it, I know how tough it is for her to tell it. And I know that, you know, your worst critic is yourself, you know? And I don't want Ali to ever feel like I'm criticizing her because I have so much compassion for this whole thing. It's really tough to be addicted. Nobody wants to be addicted and it's tough to live with an addict. You know, I mean, it's everybody is struggling and we have to really love and appreciate each other and try and help people through. You know, I can't do it for her. I think ultimately, like if there is any bit of advice that I can give to anybody, being the family of the addicted or an addicted person, boundaries, setting healthy boundaries for yourself with your family, your family with you, you know, like one of the main boundaries was my dad stated, do not come to the house if you're using or if you are, don't come high, you know, you can come if you're sober. And that one, I respected, maybe I didn't respect some others, but that one I did respect because I didn't want them to see me in the height of my addiction, so I kept my distance with a lot. I would call her every once in a while just to be like, hey, not dead yet, you know? But there was also that shame. And that's what I think a lot of people nowadays don't realize the shame that an addicted person feels because they feel like a burden on their family or... I think everybody sees it from like, you know, not really from a compassionate space, they kind of see like more of the damage that's being caused. As far as it's like, you know, do they intend to do this? Do they, and like you said, it's more of a mental health thing versus like that. But I do want to, now that you mentioned it, you did call her, how did your stomach feel being caused in the middle of the night? Did you think that it was? You can't feel right. So the first time you get to call from jail, I was like, what? My hands in jail? Oh my God, I was like freaking out. Second time I was like, oh my God, this is safe. Yeah, every time I call from jail, she'd be like, okay, she's alive. She's good. She's, you know, three meals a day, pillow, safe place. Something I thought I would never be okay with, ever. You know, so it does change. The first time, I will never forget, Allie was working with me and at work, she said to me something about, I've been doing heroin and I thought I'd been shot. It was so profound. It didn't go down like that though. Time disappeared. I was just like, you know. She asked me specifically, she said, what is going on with you? You seem so different. And I just looked at her and it was like, okay, I have to tell her because it's hard for me to keep things from her. It's hard on me. It wears me down more so than the drugs. And I just looked at her and I said, I'm a heroin addict. And she was like, what? Say that one more time. And yeah, as much as it felt relieving to get that off my chest to her, I, yeah, I can't even describe that day. I went numb after that, kind of like, oh wow, now she knows. Where do we go from here? You know, it was rough. Sounds like you guys had a lot of oh wow moments. Like, you know what I mean? Like, especially first time for you. I'm sure you never thought that you would be in a lot of these situations. How was it? Did you ever visit her in jail? Well, we could, yeah. But then COVID hit. And so then it was, you could do video videos sometimes. So you've been, yeah, I forgot the six years of jail. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you've been in and out. So yeah. She bailed me out a couple of times from jail. But yeah, towards the end there though, it was like, don't bail me out. Don't do it. You know, we'll figure it out. Just don't, don't do it. Even if I beg you, don't do it kind of thing. So there's also that. And I, I'm not gonna lie. I called her many times saying, come get me. If you love me, you will come get me. And she was like, nope. That's a tough love. Sometimes they need it, I don't use that, but sometimes it is needed. Sometimes it's needed. And one of the things too, I find lying is a part of an addict's life. They lie about everything. I think they even lie to the point where when they get somewhere, sometimes they're not even sure what the truth is anymore. You have to get back into your brain and realize that, you know, telling the truth is really okay. Nobody's going to throw you out of the house. You know, it's like, just be honest. I can handle it, you know. So I think that's been hard is for so many years, I couldn't trust anything that came out of her mouth. Nothing. And that's such a crappy place to be. You know? Especially when you guys are so close like you guys on the light. And it's funny because the other day I started to ask her something and you started to get a little mom and I said, whoa, whoa, whoa. For 10 years, I've been this way, wondering where you are, what are you doing? Are you telling the truth? Are you going to be okay? Are you going to live or die? Whatever. I can't undo that in one week. It's going to take a moment to get back to the trust. The love never dies. And that has never faltered. But it's just being able to trust. And you know, it's getting, it's easier for me than dad, right? We're getting there. Well, I'm sure now that she's back from Ohio and you can put eyes on her. Versus just taking her word for it over the phone. But it does get easier and stuff like that. And I told her too, like, because I had talked to her briefly like, you know, about getting the job and things like that and keeping yourself busy and doing good things. Like good things and good habits and stuff like that. It helps out immensely. Yeah. With anything. With a routine and a predictability to it. And you know, we walk the dog every morning and every night. And there's times when she says, I don't want to do it. And I'm like, he's a living thing. Get up. We're doing it. Yeah. So I do hope that you realize the support that you have. And I do. And not to put more on you. But you know, like, your mom has been through this with you. Oh yeah. And so, you know what I mean? Like, so I think that also, you know what I mean? Needs to be in the motivation, you know what I mean? For her and dad and brother to not have to go through that, man. And I'm sure like stomachs and nots getting late night phone calls wondering if that's, you know, like, that's like, you know, that's like an anxiety. I think that only people in that situation want to understand. But like I said, I want to thank you for coming and supporting her. And you know what I mean? And your continued support of her. And it's going to be, like I said, it's going to be continuous down the line and everything like that. And as long as she, you know, uses you and also like, you know what I mean? Turns back to you and relies on you and trusts you. And you know what I mean? It's a two way street. You know what I mean? And I think the trust will come from your mom. Yeah. And that's what the overall goal is. You guys building that bond back and that can only make you stronger. You know, once you have her trust and she can, you know, trust that you're making it to work, that you're doing what the probation is. You know what I mean? And stuff like that. And I think eventually dad will come around too. And that would be, that would be a win. You know what I mean? That's a short term. He understands it from a different aspect because he is a recovering addict as well. You know, so he kind of, he can sniff out bullsills. That's true. You know what I mean? Like she's never been an addict. She doesn't know. You know, she doesn't know what it, what it is. I don't know how to explain it. But my dad though. Your mom's the same. What's she saying? He's right. She's saying like, no, but I'm just saying though. Like, you know what I mean? Like the way she looks at things, you can tell by the way she speaks that she's a person of hope versus like a person of despair. Like all this loss. Like she looks at it like, we can fix this. We can, we can, and you need people like that. In your life. You need people and the world needs people like her. They see people for, you know what I mean? The potential versus, oh, this is a train wreck coming. You know what I mean? Because I think I look at some people like, oh man, just walk past me, buddy. Walk past me. But your mom, she has this hopeful, you know what I mean? Like she, and, and that's, that's a beautiful thing to have in your life. And so I just want to make sure that you're appreciating that. Oh yeah. No, I didn't. Let you, let you, let you value in that. And take advantage of it too, to have somebody as such a supportive person in your life, because not everybody does. I know. No, I'm very lucky. Like I think that's one thing where a lot of people who, I have relationships with, they relate with that, or they don't relate with that. I mean, sorry. Because they don't have what I have. Because people get out of it. Yeah. Or they just never did have it. Yeah. So like I said, thank you for joining us. Thank you very much. And you know what I mean? Like we're going to finish up this conversation with Ali, Ali B. And, you know, we're going to figure out moving forward, you know? Like we, so we've left the drug conversation and let's move forward to better things and, you know, a more hopeful conversation. Maybe then. Oh, yes. Step out for a moment. Yeah. Bye. Thank you so much. Yes, man. Hey, I'm going to get a little teary-eyed. Um, thank you. Uh, I really let her down pretty hard. Take your time. See that it, uh, see how it's weighing on you and stuff like that. You know, all this stuff is like, you have to process it at some point, you know, if you want to heal, you know? And, you know, maybe you're forgiven, maybe you're not. But you have to move forward to be better you, you know? And hopefully they will forgive and they will see how you are moving forward. Yeah. You know? Like, if you're moving forward, doing better, I mean, people still are going to have some hesitation but they're, but I think the majority of them will. You know what I mean? They'll see the steps that you're taking. They'll see you doing better. They'll see you putting your life back together. That's what I'm hoping for. So that's, and that's, and like it's not guaranteed. Like this is, this is part of the process of being better. Yeah. I mean, part of recovery is seeing where you went wrong. Where it all took a huge left turn. And, you know, honestly, my life has just been kind of like a domino effect, I guess. I was adopted at five weeks old because my birth mother was married and had an affair. And so I've always kind of had like, even though I had the most amazing family who have never given me any doubt that I was not loved or I mean, whatever. I felt abandoned and unwanted, which was like really hard, not only for me, but for my family, you know, because a constant was like, oh, I know what she was like. I want to know who she was. And I just, I don't, I guess I felt kind of guilty because I never felt like I was grateful for my family. You know, I really was. You know, like the support that Ms. Dee Dee gives you now and her coming here and you, you know, and her allowing you to lean on her, you know what I mean? That's speaks volumes. My lungs are like, that's right. You know what I mean? Like that's really, really, it's a really special connection. You know, but I think anybody who's probably been adopted or, you know, or been abandoned or, you know what I mean? They still wonder about the other person, you know, like they wonder what they're like, what their life is like, what, what life would maybe would have been like, or anything like that. And that's fair. Yeah. You know what I mean? You can't beat yourself up about that. But like the mother that you have now is pretty amazing. I just met her, you know what I mean? But just, you know, you guys bond, the way you guys move together and stuff like that, that's really great to watch. She really is amazing. And I've always known that. You know, I always told her, like, I hope you don't feel like I don't love you, you know, because they do. I just need to know what they were like, including my birth mother. And when I was about 20 years old, I decided I was going to find my birth mom. And I did. Kind of. She was actually murdered when I was about 14 years old. I, her boyfriend, they were methods. And he was on a method of psychosis and stabbed her over 30 times and captated her. So I never got that chance to meet her. And that was, again, a really hard thing for me. Because it was like, you know, I finally felt like I was ready to do that and to step into that world. I wasn't given the chance. And so that was a hard thing for me to accept, I guess. I don't want a heartfulness. So you mentioned the two children, right? What about the rest of them? I have, so I have four others. Three of which are local. Two. Actually, all of my children are local. Their father is in the picture. That's the one that came back from Georgia. So he has custody of them. And I'm working towards a relationship with them again. My two younger ones, they don't really, they didn't, they were not affected like the others were. Because they were younger. So, but one of my daughters, she's 12, almost 12. She got really affected by it. I mean, really. And it was really hard for her still is. But we're working towards a relationship again. But I kind of feel like I need to get me really right before I can step back in with them because I've let them down so much over the last few years. I mean, a lot. And the fact that you acknowledge that is big in our own hands. There's potential one day. Yeah, that's a part of accountability. You acknowledging that this, this, and this, and I need to do this, this, and this. Like I said, it all comes together moving forward. Yeah. So I don't want to stay on that, you know what I mean? Like because I know how sensitive it is for parents and, you know, talking about things like that. But I want to know moving forward, right? What was rock bottom? Like what is the worst? Like the, when you, when you, when you, when you in your mind, you said, oh, this thing is just out of control. Yeah. When is, what, what is that? Where, when was that or? I was in jail. I had gotten arrested from the halfway house for suspicion of drug use. Um, and got arrested that night, was really upset and decided, well, a cellmate of mine that was in counting with me, she told me, hey, I have some fentanyl. Do you want to snort one with me? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I do actually. I'm really messed up in there right now. Yeah, sounds like a great idea. Snorted a little bit and I, I mean, and I was dead for about 10 minutes before they really revived me back. Convulsing on the floor. I read back the report recently actually and was pretty like, oh, oh my God. I mean, it was pretty bad, really bad. And I think that's when it kind of set in because like I had a God moment kind of where I felt like I was floating. And all of a sudden I heard the voices said, not yet. And boom, I started backing my body. It was very, and I don't talk about that kind of stuff lightly, at all ever. I've never been a very religious person. But that one hit me and I think that experience was like, okay, it really started to set into me. Whoa, like, you need to slow down. But I didn't, I did not slow down. It was just a stepping stone to where I got, which was, as soon as I got out of jail for that, I went to rehab, got picked up again in rehab, sent back to jail, got out again. And then for like the last, well, I've been out for seven months. I've been out of jail for seven months now. Or, I'm sorry, three months. But for four months before that, I was in jail and out in public. So over the last year, a lot has happened for me. Over the last year, how long have you been incarcerated? Incarcerated? Oh, gosh. Over the, just the last year. I've only been out for three months, so. So it's only 2023. I would say a rough estimate would be nine months out of the last year. Oh, wow. That's about right. Yeah, that's about right. Okay. Maybe eight. But I've been in and out of jail for the last year. So outside of the ODing right and your children, what else is motivating you to change your life? Like what else? I'm tired. I'm tired. I don't want, I never envisioned myself being a criminal or a drug addict or having to commit crime in order to pay for my drug addiction. The old me, like back when I was a child, would never have been like, oh, I'm gonna be a criminal, I brought, you know what I mean? But when it happens, it happens. And it's, it is very demeaning. It'll break you down. And that's what I don't think a lot of people have compassion about. It's like, they're like, oh, you're just a drug dealing, you know, drug addict who steals and commits crime. Yeah, okay, maybe. But I would never have done that beforehand. It was my, all my criminal history was drug fueled. And the courts saw that. You know, they, I didn't even really start getting into trouble. My very first time getting arrested, I was 30. Yeah, 30. So it wasn't like I was in a jail my entire life. You know, I wasn't like that. It was drug fueled. But I'm tired of that life of, I don't like committing crime. I don't like being high. I used to, sure, but not anymore. I'm over it. I think that was one thing, is I just kind of grew out of it. But this is something that you tried before, right? Tried, sure. So what's your level of, like, I didn't even want it. What's your level of commitment now to it versus like, so say for instance, you know, if it's your family, right? Who's probably seen you have these clear moments, these lucid moments for a while. What separates this time from those times is what, I think any family member or anybody who's invested in you. They didn't do it. So I've said it for years. I want to be sober. I want to be back on kids' lives. I want to do it, you know. But say it, mean it, and then do it. And this time I'm saying it, and I've actually meant it, and I'm actually doing it. So it's all in your action, whether you, if you really want to do it, you're going to do it. If you're really tired of the life, you're going to get out of it. Beforehand, I would always come up with some excuse, or, oh, you're making me mad today, dad. I gotta go, and I would leave. Even though it wasn't his fault, it was just an excuse for me to go. I'm not doing that anymore. I take full accountability for me. It's not anybody's fault but mine, period. Okay. So what are some, some things, I'm sure you still have urges, right? Not really. Not at all? Zero. Zero. There's nothing that like triggers you, that you see something, and you think about. No. No, okay. Yeah, it's been, it's been eye-opening, in the sense that I really don't, I don't have cravings. I'm not on any assistance, whatever, like Suboxone or anything like that. I'm not any of that. It was sheer willpower. I just said I'm done. I'm tired of it. I don't want it anymore. And do you talk to somebody now, like a therapist or a counselor or? Working on that, currently, yeah. Kind of trying to find a therapist currently. But I do have bunches of people that do support me, even here in Lama. People that I find encouragement from. And honestly, I walk a lot. I'm always walking. And I think one of the most healing things is staring your dark side in the face. Yeah. So I guess my question will be right now, like, is when do you feel the strongest or the most confident right now in, like, with the recovery? When, okay. When do I feel most confident? Yeah. Um, that's an interesting question, actually. Now that I kind of processed it a little bit. I feel pretty confident and strong at all times with it. Just because I know where I want my life to go from here on out. And I don't want it to go back backwards at all. I know that, like, when I have to set boundaries with people, you know, people that were huge parts of my life, exes, old friends, that's when I feel the strongest, I think. Because that's like, that's saying something for me, because I've always, always struggled with relationships. Friendships, relationships, period. I feel like everybody is my friend, and maybe I picked the wrong crowd a lot, because I feel like they'll accept me for all my quote-unquote flaws. But being able to sit there and go, okay, hold on, you're not the best for me. And I need to take some space away from you, or I don't think that we need to continue any further. How is that, though, dealing with, like, old friends and old? Because, you know, like, some of that stuff, like, especially, like, I'm sure you run into a maybe, at, like, the probation office or at, you know, court dates or anything like that. Like, you see people, like, you know, I'm sure. So it's like, what do you, I mean... Honestly, it's been kind of funny, because I had this situation two days ago where I was with somebody, we were on a bike ride in Boulder, and all of a sudden I see a few people coming up, and I'm like, uh-oh, this could be interesting, you know? Like, these were people that I lived with, that I did a lot of drugs with, and they didn't even recognize me. And I was like... Winning! You know, because I don't look like I used to at all. I was 100 pounds soaking wet, had short hair, you know? And I don't look like that anymore. You almost roped me in with the weight question, but I know to skip that one. Look, hey, you know what I mean? But you look great. I just want to tell you that you look great. But what are your short-term goals, like just in the near future? Like, what are... One day at a time. One day at a time. Literally. Which is probably the best policy I can tell anybody. One day at a time, take it day by day, minute by minute, hour by hour. Do not overwhelm yourself, because when you get overwhelmed, you fall back. No, that makes sense. But in my mind, this is what I... We all have dreams, right? We all have, like... In our mind, we all have an idea of how life... How life is. What is... What is Alice? Like, you know, like... I love welding. So I want to go to welding school. And this is a dream. Yes. Like, look, not the WABA. Look, you want to be a dog, too. But no, but it's a welding. Welding. And what got you... What makes you, like, so... You know what I mean? Honestly, I don't even remember. Oh, actually I do. I just thought about that. Do you remember the TV show, Shameless? I never watched it, but I know a lot of people did. So, one of the characters on there is a girl who is struggling with life, and she becomes a welder. She goes to welding school. And I don't know. I kind of, like, related with her, I guess. And thought welding was cool. And my brother loves that kind of stuff. Welding, you know, his construction guy. Trip of all trades. So, and my mom, too. They all were kind of the Tim Toolman, Taylor kind of family. Like, I know how to fix a lot of things, where if you were to lead on a guy to do it, you'd never get done. No offense. Oh, wow. I mean, saying it, you know, if you want it done, you want it done right, you got to do it yourself. So, that's kind of where I come from with that. Not in a mean way towards men. No, honestly, it's good to hear you say that. Because, you know, as I've been, we've been having this interview, I see that maybe, and I don't want to, like I said, I don't want this to sound bad. Maybe you don't make the best choices in men. Oh, I do not. So, for you to be more self-reliant, and hear you speak more of a, hey, I can do this, I don't need a man. It's very good. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it gives me, like, more, like, oh, okay, maybe she is putting this thing together. And it's good to hear you being more confident just in you. It's taken me a long time to get to this point. I know I have picked some real winners. And I've always kind of depended on a man, which I've never been single. Like, ever. And I'm single, and it feels really good. You know, like, not having to be like, okay, you know, is he gonna be okay with me doing this? You know, I was constantly in a, I don't know how to put it, submissive relationship with men. Whereas now I'm more of the dominant, like, you're not gonna tell me. I'm taking control of me back. That's that power, that's important. Because you've always had it. You know what I mean? The thing about it is you've always had it just, you know what I mean? Sometimes I guess people do kind of give that up just to be accepted. And I think that plays into that abandonment piece and things like that. I think. Yeah, no, it's pretty, you're pretty spot on there. Yeah. But my thing is this, okay, so outside of one day at a time, right? What advice would you give somebody else who maybe is in addiction right now? Or, you know what I mean? In recovery. So let's start with the person that's in actual addiction right now. What advice would you give to them? Give yourself a chance. You know, give yourself a chance for happiness again. Because even though it seems like it might be so far away, it's not. It's really not. Because I know with me when I was in my, high to my addiction, I did not feel like I was worth it. I didn't feel like I would ever get back to that spot of like true happiness where, and freedom, not being suffocated by the world, the grind. It's really liberating. And if you can find even one tiny bit of hope to get better, run on it. Run with it. So, because it can become greater. And if people see that you actually are trying, I have had people who are active in their addiction right now, and they're like, I want to see you, but I don't want to bring that around you, you know? And I'm like, okay, well, I'm not ready to see you. And they're like, okay, I get that, you know? You just have to be able to have confidence in yourself and know the right people, or I don't want to say the right people. Know the people that actually have good intentions for you, because a lot of them don't. You may say that they're your friend, but they're not. If they're the ones getting high with you, or whatever, they're not your real friend. So, but you only, so right now, you only have a short sample size of recovery, right? And I think people are, you know what I mean, they're going to question that, right? But let's block that out. What advice would you give to somebody in recovery besides making it day-to-day? What advice would you give them as far as getting through? I don't know. Like you said, it is a short timeframe that I've been sober, but it's also been the longest I've been sober in like 10 years. That's a win. That's a win. I feel like every day gets better and gets a little bit easier. You get a little bit more confident, a little bit more, gets a little easier, I guess, that would be, and I know it sounds hard when you're in your active addiction, or even first day in, but to sobriety, but it really does get easier and freeing, liberating. I don't know, that's hard on me. Think about that. You know what I mean? Down the line, like so recovery, maybe you're when you're in, how can you help others? I guess will be the question that something, the way you can get back, because it always feels good to just give somebody back, and if you can help somebody get through, like just one day of recovery, that's it. You know what I mean? So I want you to, I challenge you down the line to a way that you can get back to people. That would be my challenge just for you personally. And you don't have to tell us, or anything like that, you can just start doing it, whether it be checking on somebody every day, or, you know. How do you do that? So what, you know what I mean? So that right there, like, you know what I mean? That's a way that you can get back, and you know what I mean? Help others is the thing. But this is like probably one of my last questions, right? So how can me, and others in the community, outside of your family, support you? Or how can- Compassion. Compassion. Compassion, patients, don't be too quick to judge, because you don't know the backstory. You don't know where that person's coming from. Um, it could be something monumentous, or my name- but just, you know, don't be so quick to judge, because you don't know the backstory. I don't know what it sounds like. I'd like to say I appreciate you giving me your time. If you- do you have anything else that you want to add, or any thoughts, or any questions that I should have asked, that I didn't ask, because I know I asked a lot of questions, which you know what I mean? But anything that you think that you want to add, or should add to this? Um, I guess recovery is hard. Um, it's harder than addiction. Addiction's easy, actually. Um, just if you want it, you're gonna- you're gonna get it, you know? And that's one thing I guess I can tell fellow addicts, or people in recovery is, if you truly, truly want it, it'll come. And it's taken me 25 years, you know, of Kyle and Aaron to get to where I'm at. And yeah, I'm 35 years old, but I'm finally seeing the light for what it is. And it's a beautiful, beautiful light. I'm trying to tell you, I'm proud of you though. Thank you. Yeah. And then, uh, oh, Mom, do you have any- you're off camera. Do you have anything to add, or anything that- any last thoughts before I wrap this thing on up? I just want to tell my daughter how proud I am of her. Hey, your mom, stay with the pom-poms. Hey, I love it. You know what I mean? You're number one cheerleader, man. You really did. Well, remember I told you that. Make sure you appreciate that and value that, and you guys nurture that, man, because that's the base. You know what I mean? That's square one, man, is to feel love and feel supported. And great things can happen after that. Yep. She's my number one. Yeah. So I want to thank you guys for tuning in to this special edition of King Penny's podcast. You know, I want to thank Ali B for giving her time and her bravery for telling her story, her truth and everything like that. And I hope you guys appreciate it and respect it as well. And in comment, give your thoughts. On the back end of this, I'll put down some resources and things like that because I think that's helpful to know in the Longmont area, you know. And, but like I said, I'm not affiliated with anybody. I'm not a therapist. I'm not even trying to be a therapist. Just having a conversation with the individual from the community. I want to challenge you guys also to, if you're in recovery and you need something to do, there's a free outdoor gym, the weight pile on the Rockies at 1610 Main Street in Longmont, Colorado. So open twice a day in the morning from 7.30 to 11. And then again in the afternoon from 3.30 to 7, you know. So if you want to do something, be around healthy people, be around like-minded individuals who just want to work, who just want to, you know, have fun also to as well. We talk, we hang out. And there's basketball there. If you want to just come shoot around or just come hang out, if you want to save space just to sit and be outside, you know. So we want to promote healthy places and if you have any recommendations of healthy places in Longmont or in the area, hey, add them into the comments, man. So like I said, I appreciate you. Thank you very much for shedding light on this. And hopefully this is an issue that we can all tackle together because it's not one person's job, you know. So thank you again for listening, tuning in, stay tuned. Podcast comes out every Wednesday. King Penny, we're out of here, man.