 It's really, really an amazing week we've had. Hashtag non-profit power. Wow, you know, I'm gonna say this really quickly. I've said it pretty much every day, Tony, and I don't know if you've been able to join us every day, you know, watching the archives, but we really had this idea a long time ago. And we thought it was just so exciting in Fundraising Academy. I mentioned it to you and you're like, I love it, let's do it. And you helped us launch this concept. And Jared, do you think it's been really fun and really successful to drill down? Yes, so much fun. So much fun, so really, really amazing. Today we have Tony Bell coming back to us from Fundraising Academy, the guru of cause selling. And we're gonna talk something a little different today and we're gonna be talking about overcoming objections, the power of mindset. And it's gonna be a really robust conversation because we've spoken so much about the tools, the cause selling piece of it, the process, but I really think we need to have the conversation about what happens emotionally and the mindset that we need to go through. Again, thank you so much to all of our presenting sponsors. If you were not with us, we would not be here. Now, Jared, how many shows in? I should look, but I think it's like 360 plus. Amazing. I know. I'm laughing because we've collaborated so much together that it was almost on cue, Jared and I both were like, you know. That's right, that's right, I love it. And having never met in person, like the three of us have never, you know, I've never met. So anyway, it's. I know. You're gonna be shocked at how tall Jared is and how short I am. Well, I'm more on your scale, Julia. It's sad, it's sad. I can never meet anybody in person now going forward for the rest of my life. It has to all be on camera. But anyway, again, thank you to Fundraising Academy for joining us on this really exciting adventure. It's been wonderful and it will continue to be wonderful. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy, been joined today by the non-profit nurse herself, Jared Ransom, CEO of the Raven Group. And I judge you for math. This is our 361st episode. So what a wonderful time to bring in the discussion, overcoming objections with that mindset of success. And Tony, I'm sure I speak for Julia as well. There's no one better to talk about this than you. So thank you for joining us again. Well, thank you for that. Thank you for that. I'm looking forward to our conversation as always. So, Jared, you asked this question. Yeah, let's get started. You know, let's talk about truly how critical is this mind selling? So cause selling, or sorry, the mindset within cause selling. So we've talked all week about cause selling and the wonderful efforts from Fund Raising Academy. But now we wanna drill into the mindset of this. And how critical is that, Tony? Well, I mean, I think mindset is critical in everything that we do and in all aspects of life. Very much like when we talk about cause selling and when we are being a little bit disruptive by saying that fundraisers actually sell. It just, it is, it's that mindset. We sell every day, right? I think I use this kind of ridiculous example all the time, even if you're trying to sell, you know, your children on eating broccoli, right? It's like you're selling every day in different ways in all aspects of our lives. And I feel very much the same way about mindset. I mean, mindset affects every aspect of our life. And as fundraisers, I think it's our responsibility as best as we can. And we're gonna talk a little deeper about this as we move through the conversation to bring the fun into fundraising and to, you know, to create a joyful space and to make the experience as joyful as possible for our investors and for our volunteers and for our board members. So I think mindset is very critical. And I believe strongly, especially as a fundraiser, that it's important that you come from a place of abundance when you are meeting with potential. Even if your organization, you know, you look at your P&L, you know, and you're in the red and you know, you're not sure how you're gonna make payroll and this meeting with this large donor, you know, is gonna be absolutely transformational. You still need to come to that, come to the table with this mindset of abundance because folks want to invest in success. So if you come to the table feeling anything less than success, folks can feel that and a investor is going to be hesitant to invest. So that's just one way. So good at bringing that fun in fundraising, right? I mean, clearly it is right there in the word, you know, it's the first three little letters but it's a huge impact those three little letters do. And you're right. And I think, Julia, you say this quite a bit is that people want to be on a winning team. Absolutely. Absolutely. And a lot of time the causes that we support are not fun. It's not pretty, right? The scenario is not pretty. It's not fun. In many cases, it's sad. Yes. You know, so that's why I really lean into, you know, the cause that you're selling might again just be something very, very depressing. But that's why, you know, coming from this joyful place, doing whatever little thing we can do to add the fun and fundraising is important for us. You know, years ago I had the opportunity to interview a Fortune 100 CEO about his philanthropy. And he told me that he dealt with such sorrow and such tragedy that he in his mind always had a percentage of his total philanthropic budget specifically for the arts and culture. Because he felt that that was the link to teaching and connecting our people to positive outcomes and what could happen. And if you could see beauty, then you could understand beauty and you could understand, you know, good outcomes and striving forward. And I always thought that was so interesting. So interesting, you know, because you are right. We don't talk about that enough about how really to use Jared's word tragic the environment we can be in. Well, it's a huge advocate of the arts. I certainly lean into that philosophy, what the arts can do for our wellness, what the arts can do for the economic viability of our communities. I mean, there are many cities across the country that were in a depressed state and a leader gets in, invests in the arts and you just see from there how the economy grew. So yeah. It has a huge impact. You know, it's an interesting thing. I wanna talk to you about this a little bit deeper because we have a lot of negativity by virtue of what we're dealing with within the nonprofit sector. But then how do we navigate those negative attitudes? You know, I think there's a lot of negativity around the word selling. And we hear the word selling or we hear the word fund development and we kind of put those people in a different part of our building or our campus. I mean, don't you think, Jared? I mean, having you seen that where the development people are kind of like, oh, you go over there. Yes. And I think I might have shared with you, Tony, before on a previous episode because we're so grateful to have you on multiple times. Even working with an organization or an organization that their volunteer coordinator brought in a Starbucks team. And I said, I would really love to address them before they start their meeting. And she was like, no way are you getting access to them? That's negative, right? Yeah, that is. So, yes, we've kind of been pushed aside. Like, I don't know, these people are scary, hold on to your purses really tight. It's true. Well, how do we get around that? How do we get around that stereotypical negative feeling that people have towards development folks? Well, that's really, that is a big question. I haven't, in my experience as a fundraiser, I haven't dealt with a lot of negativity around the work that I do. I think a lot of times that comes from a lack of understanding around the value that the role brings in certain organizations. So, in some organizations, a lot of focus is on the programs and who implements the programs. Cause if we don't have a program, right? Then there's nothing to sell. And so a lot of focus is on, these are the more important members of our team because they're the ones delivering the programming on the front line. They're really the ones affecting change in the community, right? But our fundraisers are the engine or provide the fuel, maybe that's the better way of saying it, right? Provide the fuel for the engine so that that great work can occur. Right. Okay, so we've already made a quote from you about, I said the crass thing, no money, no mission. You said something much more articulate. I'm gonna use that and create another quote slide because you're right. We are in the fundraising development team or capacity, whether it's one person or 100, we are that fuel for the engine. Gotta be looking at that. Absolutely, and in some organizations, because you have your program lane, you have your fundraising lane, you might have a separate lane for volunteers. So to be mindful of how you break down those silos, how often do you bring everyone together? So everyone gets a sense of the value that they're bringing to the organization so that everyone understands how important each other is in their role and towards the success of the positive change that you're having in the communities that you're serving. So there's lots of opportunities in terms of our organizational structures and the way that we communicate and interact that can help minimize, if not completely prevent a lot of these negative attitudes that some fundraisers may come across from coworkers or from board members. Right, well, so I love that you bring up board members. So I have a question in particular and I'm sure we've all experienced this, but board members may not be eager to share their contacts or even invite some of their close friends, family members or even colleagues to a potential event for fear, I'm gonna say fear of the unknown, right? Of how will they be addressed? How will they be stewarded and prospective thereafter? So how might you recommend in particular using this cost selling method to navigate some of these negative attitudes or really that defiance of collaboration? So I think part of it is educating board members on really what is the process of raising money? How do we really do that? And the cost selling cycle allows a lot of opportunities for board engagement, whether it's through the prospecting, right? Whether it's through the ask, whether it's through the presentation, there are many ways for board members to engage in the process so that their level of trust is such that they don't question the actions. They're not concerned about inviting someone to an event and how is our development officer going to approach them? So I think engaging them in the process in various ways is one way of building that trust. Another way is role play with the board member. I hate role playing, I'll be the first to say it. I hate it, but it's so valuable, you know? So if you have a board member, it's like, you know, if you're sensing that they're not gonna trust then say to them, well, let's role play this. You be that donor and I will show you right now how I would have that conversation and how I would introduce myself to that individual. You can sign me up for role play as a Fezbian and a mass communication theater major. I'm all over it. Yeah, well, I'm not afraid of a stage and a spotlight but role playing is just not my gig. It's a little different beast, yes. I can see that. I like that, I like that a lot. I do too. And I'm curious, your colleague Jack Alotto that has previously been on for the Power Week with Julia and I, he shared about the Madden test and for those of you that aren't familiar, this is, gosh, I don't know how you would refer to it but it's a piece, it's a resource within the qualifier essentially within the cost-selling methodology and he shared with us exactly what Madden stood for M-A-D-D-E-N. Is that a tool or qualifier that you would educate your board on? So for instance, if I'm thinking, okay, I have this breakfast table that I need to fill and I have eight open seats, might I, board member, go through the Madden test and say, okay, who might be interested in this and how might we qualify them using that same methodology? I would send off fireworks right now if I had any because that's absolutely brilliant. And yes, it's a great tool for board members. Again, it helps them understand part of the process and how you again prioritize your work, how you determine where the greatest opportunity rests within this pool of potential investors. And what I love about the Madden concept is that really you can rename any of those qualifiers. So come up with whatever name you want. We use, Madden, it makes sense for a development officer and a fundraiser for a gala or a breakfast, trying to fill a table. Some of those qualifiers might look a little different but it is definitely an enabler for the board member to help them prioritize their Rolodex in terms of who they might reach out to and invite to maximize the opportunity, not only to maximize the opportunity, but to make sure they're inviting the right people. Right. I love that. And I think that is a really an amazing mindset approach because I think what happens is in the rubber chicken circuit you get like, well, you know, I went to their events and now they're coming to my event and you're not creating a sustainable. Yeah. You're scratching everyone's back. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I'm laughing because the rubber chicken has now become the rubber salmon. So you know, it's like. It's really true. It's really true. But I mean, you know, I think. Yesterday's rubber chicken is today's rubber salmon. I love it. I think you're absolutely spot on. I go for the vegetarian compare. It's always amazing. It's always fantastic. I'm with you there. Yeah. Whatever you have the choice, choose the vegetarian because it's going to be really good. So as I think of, you know, the end of the year because believe it or not, it is right here for us. The end of the year is now. And there are so many organizations that I know are really feeling the pressure towards this end of year fundraising. I think the statistic is roughly 30% of most operating budgets are raised in this Q4 period. So really looking at these final, final four months, right? So there's going to be news. There's going to be whether it's, yay, we made the budget or did not quite make the budget or yes, this donor said, absolutely. And oh, these donors just, they're not quite on board. Talk to us about how you would recommend when it comes to delivering fundraising news, whether it's good or it's bad because we're all feeling this. And I think now at the end of the year, coming up on two years that have been very, very heavy. What kind of sage advice do you have for us, Tony? So I shared with you guys just prior to our Chitty chat. I'm a huge fan of animation and animated movies. And one of my favorites is Kung Fu Panda. And so in Kung Fu Panda, there is this scene where it's very well said, there's no such thing as good news or bad news, there's just news. So when we talk about this kind of positive mindset, really just it's news. Now you're educated, you're informed. The real test now is what do you do with that information and how do you respond to it? And like any business, right? 501c3 tax status, not business model. In any business, you have to have these candid, transparent conversations around where the business is in terms of its health and where it's going. So if we're talking about, as a fundraiser having to communicate to an executive director or CEO, that something's not going the way that we thought it was going to go or having to communicate to board members that things aren't going the way that we thought that they would go. Really approach it that it is news. It's not good or bad, it's news. And now we have that information and now we figure out what our next step is based on that information. I love that, because I think that's a real mindset tool because if you lock yourself up with fear, then you don't really give the right information or you give it when it's far too late because you try and not broach the topic or I can just see what happens is it just, it becomes something that you don't lean into until it's really far too late. And for my own personal experience, whenever I kind of entered the arena with the mentality that I've been defeated, it prevents me from thinking creatively about the solutions because I already feel defeated. So I'm not allowing myself to have the space to think optimistically and to really come up with an appropriate and dynamite solution. I'm defeated, I'm done. Yeah, yeah. And that's so to me to hear the way you articulated that, I think that's one of those reasons why we have such a horrific turnover in development in the nonprofit sector. AFP reports that we have an average tenure of 18 months. I suspect that the next time that gets reported, it's going to have dropped even more. We're burning and churning our development folks. I've got to believe it's because of this. I think there's a lot of stuff to unpack there. You know, it's organizational norms. It's how some boards micromanage organizations versus being thought leaders for the organization and trusting the talent that they've hired to do the work. So yeah, so there's a lot to unpack there. And kudos to AFP in particular and a lot of organizations are doing this, but I've noticed it with AFP particularly, is one of their pillars this year and over last year is really around the mental health and wellbeing of fundraisers and how can we support that and how can we continue to encourage those types of conversations to take place in the workplace and beyond. We mentioned it was global news around the Olympics and what's going on in terms of professional sports and how those athletes are now saying, wait a second, I need to dial back for a minute. If you want me to show up on the court and be the best that I can possibly be, then I need a pause. And if that means I can't be on the court every time, then that's what it means. And I think you said it so beautifully and it perhaps was in the Chitty Chat Chat, but yes, this has become this being more of the mental health overall burnout has really become a global issue and a global conversation finally and thankfully, right? It has really become something that more and more of us are beginning to talk about and open up about. I myself am doing a self-care and how to avoid burnout workshop, actually on August 31st, but there's just been and here's my theory over the last two years, those of us that are natural helpers, right? We continue to run towards the fire, who can we help? What can we save? What can I do and how can I be of service? I'm feeling it that now two years into it, there's just so many layers, layers of weight, complexity, expectation. So going back to your comment, Tony, about those boundaries, like how can we set healthy boundaries and boundaries I think also tie into our mindset and they continue to perpetuate that positive mindset, regardless of the news, because as you said, it's news, it's not good or bad, it's news. So everyone, if you haven't seen Kung Fu Panda, that is a huge endorsement by Mr. Tony Goh. One of my favorites. And that's what kind of circling back to something we said at the very beginning of our conversation, because again, time flies, we're almost done. You know, is what can we do to always put fun and fundraising and making sure that we, because we talked about the gift, the transformational gift, but how are we celebrating the steps along the way that get us to the big wins? That's just as important as the big win. You're right. I love that. In many cases, we have the big win because we might have modified or shifted something in our organization, we might have tweaked a message, we might have created a new marketing video. So those are wins to celebrate regardless of maybe what the larger anticipated win might have done. So I really think celebrating those steps along the way helps us get there. Well, and I would say to your point, sharing that with your entire team, because I love what you said is that a lot of times these negative opinions or, you know, not embracing the fund development team is exactly what you said, it's education. They don't really understand what you're having to do. So if you can share, you know, wow, we did this, we did that, we're not just hinging everything on a yes or no. Or that we're not just take well, you know, pre this landscape, you know, a lot of times people think, oh fundraisers, oh, you're taking people out to lunch all the time and, you know, you're taking people out to, you know, dinners, you know, like it's this, you know, it's like this Riviera lifestyle, but it's not that. Calendars Bill. It's true, Tony, I think I appreciate that. You know, Tony Bell, what an amazing national, actually global thought leader when it comes to this, but incredible, incredible wisdom and energy. I have to say when I'm with you, I'm in the show and I'm like, I'm ready to go ask. You know, you give me a lot of empowerment, but realistic, you know, it's a really an amazing thing. And then when we look at what Fundraising Academy has done with this cause selling cycle, it's super powerful. And to get you, as Jared and I say, you're the big get to come onto the show and get the top dog to talk about this. We wanna remind everybody that over the course of this last year, we have been working with Fundraising Academy and we have some amazing content that's in our archives. And so if you want to learn more about what this cause selling education really means, we have an amazing archive full of the different phases cycle by, I should say step, step by step going through. So check us out with our archives, because it's amazing. So tomorrow we, hard to believe, Jared, that we've like blown through a week. I know it is Friday Eve. Friday. Tomorrow we will finish up with our ask and answer. We have some really interesting questions that have come in, but we've talked about determining capacity. We've talked about looking inside at what you already have, because there's some amazing information and how do we do sorts? Getting the gatekeepers key. Who is a gatekeeper? What do they do? What do they want? How can you navigate them? That was riveting. So lots of exciting opportunities. If you're coming to us for the first time, maybe on the archive, look for these other episodes because they're so much fun and they all fit together. And I think that's part of the magic. We wanna make sure we thank all of our sponsors again. Without you, we would not be here having this amazing conversation. Thank you to my gallery for supporting. I know, it's like, join me, Tony. I love it. And thank you. I'm here for applause all the time, so. And thank you, of course, to Fundraise Academy Cost Selling Education. We are so grateful for your partnership and truly in presenting a sponsor for this nonprofit power week, nonprofit power. So make sure that you do help us get that hashtag viral. We're so appreciative for your continued support and looking forward to having you back here with us tomorrow. Thanks to Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. I'm Jarrett Ransom, also known as your nonprofit nerd. And again, it's been such a powerful week. We are so extremely grateful. Look forward to tomorrow. Priyay's ask and answered. And as we end every episode, as the previous 360 episodes, please stay well so you can do well. Thanks everyone, and we'll see you back here tomorrow.