 This is possibly the best two sessions in the day. These are people who shape our opinion every day on Indian television. Whenever the anchors allow them to speak, they do speak things that matter to us and to their party. I also want to acknowledge the presence of somebody. While they regard us in a different way, there's somebody who regards us in a very unique way. I also want to welcome Mr. Sumeer Esfaslecha, who most of us know as Pummy Aunty. He's there and I will have the honour of including him in a conversation. All these three people have a life beyond what they do for their party and what they do for the country. Mr. Bhatia is a top-notch lawyer. He's a legal legal and one day I met him and I said to him that in the way you speak, you come across as Mr. Arun Jaitley and he said that's a big compliment. I don't know if you remember. So he's a lawyer, legal luminary. Of course, she's a national spokesperson for the BJP, but she's from the media domain. She was a prime time anchor on Star News. It was called Star News then. So she understands the media world really well. And Mr. Gansham Tiwari, while he's a spokesperson for the Samajwadi Pali, he's an education entrepreneur. He's an etic entrepreneur. So all three of them while they serve their parties and serve our country, have multi-faceted personalities if I may say. Now today's topical discussion is how important is communication inside the party and outside the party for the political party. So I want to start with a question. Gaurav, if you have a dissenting view on how the communication is being handled, let's say on CAP on NRC, and it starts right from the top, from the number one and number two. If you have input feedback that we could do this little better, do your political party leaders listen to you and change the tone and tonality? A very good afternoon to everyone. Thank you, Anurad G, for inviting me here. It's a complete honour. And I would only start by saying you said that we shape the public discourse. To all the August gathering and individuals who are sitting here, actually the shaping starts from them. They are the ones who question us, who give us feedback, who tell us what the society thinks and that is the real pulse that a good spokesperson or a representative from a political party needs to catch and then spread. And as you asked me, I would only say that yes, we are very fortunate to be serving in the BJP. For the reason that a spokesperson's job is to finally amplify the view of the party effectively. But when that view is formed, you have to abide by it on the television. That does not mean that a healthy organisation like the BJP will not give you room and space to present your own views, to show dissent also, to disagree. But as the Supreme Court has said, dissent is fine, propagation of your view is fine, incitement is not fine, what we see sometimes. So when you presented your view, the senior party leaders take stock of the situation and then they tell you, they fine tune their party ideology also. But once it has been decided by the party, whether others like it or not, you have to abide by their party line and put it across effectively. And because we are talking about communication, I will tell you what is the power of effective communication. That is effective communication. If you have the conviction, the right communication will ensure that people are with you fighting for the same cause for the same reason. Thank you Gaurav Gaurav for being specific and saying yes, we have dissent but once there is a view and we have taken it again, we have got to go out and evangelise that. So I will ask a simple question from now on. On this gap and this NRC discussion, the communication, how would you rate BJP's communication on that, on 1 on 10? Is it 9, 8, 5? Because there are two viewpoints, you know on national television, hopefully two, that there are lots of protests that are very peaceful whereas yesterday it seemed that only violent protests were happening. I mean there are some colleagues of mine who didn't show up saying it's bad today whereas it's absolutely calm because the families are worried naturally. So you tell me on this gap, on the NRC, how many number of people will give, will give 10, 9 or 11? Arora Ji, it is very important that you communicate but I will just give you a small example from what happened yesterday's debate. You know it is not only the responsibility of the government to ensure that the right information fitles down. It is also the responsibility of every citizen to know what that person is protesting for. In yesterday's debate the anchor asked somebody who was opposing the TAA and NRC that have you read the draft of the NRC and that gentleman very proudly said yes, I have read it. So the anchor came to me and I was participating. He said as the spokesperson of the ruling party have you read it? I told him I haven't because it hasn't been drafted yet. So you know the point that I want to make is that yes the party and the government needs to disseminate the right information. You must have seen there have been advertisements in the newspaper. Senior leaders like Narendra Modi Ji and Amit Shah Ji are using the public medium to ensure the right message goes down and at the same time these citizens who come out to protest, it is your right to protest and defend. But believe me I know a little bit about constitution. A violent protest is nobody's right. Of course we can't defend. Too much strong that people who are wearing you know khashi vardhi and then they are trying to serve the nation is nobody's right. And therefore I say when you communicate be effective have the right information and don't rely on everything that you get over what's up. So number I will give the full ten. But if you say too much then I will give nine. It is because life has a principle that everything can be done better. And the government has a very big responsibility that if you think something can be better then that's why we will make it better. It is a responsible government. It is the government that is taking historical decisions. And I know that I can say with complete confidence that when history is written then article 370 triple palat and CAA and NRC, this will be written in golden letters because these are historical decisions that require spines, that require guts and convictions which Karindra Modi has. Thank you Gaurav for being such eloquent and convincing spokesperson for the party you are and I have known you for many years but I only got to know you in the last ten months little better and I can tell you that you become more mature, more pleasant, more toned down and really it has increased your reliability. There I say as an external so it's a welcome change. I don't agree with you that the BJP should get nine on ten on the communication of the tonality but we will come to that. I respect your right to disagree. That's okay. I wish you could tell that to my wife but that's another story. Coming to Shazia, Shazia has been a friend I met her fifteen years back so I've known her for a while and I've seen her, how she has evolved and I can tell you that she's a very sensitive person if I may use. So Shazia ji, I would like you to be as real as you can be today. I know we have two spokesperson from the BJP but you're also, I mean I don't want to give you a religion so to say but you meet your friends from the Muslim community and I'll be doing it. And they have real apprehension and some of the messaging and some of the comments have been from the top political leaders have been very aggressive. The tonality has been very aggressive. It hasn't been a dialogue. It has been like we're handing you down something. Take it and don't ask too many questions. Sorry and let me. That's the tonality. I think the cab is right, wrong, energy. That's another story. What I'm saying, what is your view? Both as the party's spokesperson, as a woman, as a citizen and as a Muslim who lives in India. How much do you agree with what's happening and how much would you give to the communication in terms of one to ten? So first of all Anurag ji, thank you so much and thank you for your candor and your honesty. Thank you Exchange for Media for actually having these wonderful interventions and forums where we can have a healthy and informed debate where everything gets said and people are allowed to disagree without any concentration or ugliness. So thank you. We need many more of these. So I really want to congratulate Exchange for Media for this exercise that they have been taking for years. You know I've been an anchor. I've been an activist right there with this Nazareya Androla Nadevaya and yes I'm in politics now, active politics now. I am a spokesperson, I'm a panelist and what is happening now is extremely disturbing and distressing. If I can give a more of a Picasso's 360 or a Cubist point of view from a communicator, from a spokesperson from being an Indian citizen and a Muslim citizen and a woman citizen so to speak, I would say that a lot more needs to be desired where communication and correct communication and communication with responsibility is concerned from all sides. Whether it's the opposition, whether it's the party whether it's genuine misgivings, whether they're apprehensions whether they're fears of some of our brothers and sisters, they have to be addressed. As it is important for my government and my party to come clean and explain as to what is meant by CAB, similarly it is an equal responsibility of the opposition, of every teacher, of every professional of every protestor to know what they are up against so I think honesty and objectivity can never be sacrificed as the altar of politics as the altar of ideology. That is one sacrifice I will never make in my life. I never have compromise and never will. Please do not read any more into this. There is such a short attention span and there is such a need to jump at everything that is being said that nothing can get set with depth and gravity and seriousness. Let's play with this thought what are we doing today? I mean one day we are all with the protestors because of whatever is happening and we are blaming the police makes all of us feel very bad because the police man is being beaten up and being ambushed. Look at us as a society and our reactions. I think we have to take stock of who we are. There seems to be Hindus and Muslims and men and women and BGP and Congress but see what are we doing to ourselves? Our acumen, our intelligence as a society so I feel the protest and whatever the breakdown of law and order that I see is a huge failure on our own individual intelligence, politics of non-politics society. So I am making a bigger point here Anuragji I hope you are getting that. And yes it is the duty of my party and like I have said CAA has nothing to do with any Indian whatsoever. Muslims and Hindus alike. It doesn't impact Gaurav Bhatia, it doesn't impact Bhan Shyam, it doesn't impact Anurag, it does not affect Shazia Elini and many many roads of Muslims. Similarly NRC the draft of which has not been made, the notification of which has not been done is a thought only because every country can you think of any country in the world where there is no register of citizens. Can you imagine going to the US without a visa or people being curious about whether this person is a citizen or not or any country for that matter. People are somebody who is telling me about Europe. I mean so it's important for us to know census wise and registration wise about a documentation. But I would add a writer. To be fair there are genuine misgivings. There are genuine apprehensions. People have been calling up my thalas and my mamus have been calling me up. So yes there is a lot of pressure because they are very serious and senior Muslim leaders academicians who have been calling me and saying Shazia what is happening and I am just saying I will do what I will do. Please do not jump the gun. Please read, take stock, sleep over it and then at least know what you are up against. More often than not we are so ready to believe and sometimes perception is bigger than reality. So right now this is what happening so is this shadow boxing. We don't even know what we are fighting. Let's push, come to shaft, you know we will get there. So my only, I would just like to make an appeal to all get out of this prism of ideology about this self-imposed hatred for one and love for the other. Maybe because in keeping with your interests for Muslim citizens you might be working against them. Okay Shazia let me ask you something. You all claim to be himites of Muslim. And that is why you are hurting the Muslims because you might not be taking that fear from this heart. The one you are talking about, the one where you are expressing that you are a himite person, it is possibly the most damage to that nation. So Shazia let me ask you something. This is a communication conference, what could have been done better in communication. Second is there a certain TG for whom this communication is is working. There is a certain PG that the BGP reaches out to. For them it may be perfect, you know, it may be working with them, right? So I want to ask you what could have been done better in the communication? Is there something? You know the CAA, C-A-B-N-O-C-A, we have seen what happened in the parliament. We saw the Home Minister categorically spell out and the Prime Minister later that has nothing to do with Indian citizens. Now people are protesting, people are protesting against this perceived notion that C-A-A and NRC coupled together will make a difference, but the NRC draft is also not out yet. So even if you have genuine misgivings, and maybe there is a whole lot of misinformation and disinformation. And of course the opposition misgivings. You know, protect, project Modi ji is anti-Muslim, see he is becoming a Hindu rastra, and you know, so maybe sometimes this entirely biased propaganda gets the better of us. All I am saying is, until you see the draft, you don't know it. CAA has nothing to do with you and me. And what is being said in the CAA has been said by Manon Singh and Rakhash Karaj. CAA is the creative artist agency in LA. Of course, I am not an actor, so it would never apply to me. We could do it some humor, thank you, Rakhash. Yeah, really bad PJs, but Mr Tiwari coming to you, she didn't answer my question directly about what could be different on communication. Now, Mr Modi has gone outside the country, protected the country really well. This is also in some way harming India's image abroad. And the Democrats are very upset with Mr Modi for endorsing Donald Trump. And whether it's on the Kashmir issue or on this issue, the Democrats are, you know, using this to hammer us, you know. Really, I mean, that's a reality. What are your views? First, if in your party you have a different view and you communicated to the party, does it get factored in the communication? And second, what would you do differently if you were to take CAA and this whole initiative to the people? What would you do different in kind of communication, tonality, content? Well, thank you so much, Anurag and thank you everyone for giving me the audience. I think there are many things that can be said, but some things stand out. One, the Prime Minister saying from a stage that you can look at the protesters by their clothes. I don't know anyone misunderstands what the Prime Minister meant. Second, government in the face of protests releases a document on ANI, which is an FAQ on CAA, NRC unsigned, released by sources, unnamed. Third, that not a single minister in this government said why students were attacked in a library, girls were harmed, people's hands are blown, Delhi police in the face of videos is unable to accept who fired at the students and why. Fourth, the entire CAA, NRC, the moment anybody says that CAA has nothing to do with us and then speaks of NRC in a different chapter as if it is unrelated, is a miscommunication assuming that people don't read. It is the Home Minister who from April 11, 2019 till this date and even yesterday the acting president of BJP spoke about NRC. In the face of their own allies, the Chief Minister saying that we will not implement NRC. In the face of a federal system that is buckling in their own allies, in states where they have their own governments. To say that people will not read CAA and NRC together is assuming that your communication will fly in the face of mass protests. Practically what has happened in this country is it is not the opposition that has led the charge against this establishment which has fan fear. It is people from university. What was the Home Minister's response of students protesting? My alma mater IMD protested. They left their chapels outside the gate because they were not allowed outside the gate. Students at IMA protested. What was the Home Minister's response? These are premier institutions of the country. The Home Minister's response was that only 22 universities in the country are protesting. 22 institutions of 240 universities in the country. These are our premier institutions. Students are protesting at Harvard in London. Yes, you can ignore all that protest saying that yes, there is something called a massive sole proprietorship of nationalism that we decide when it gets hurt and when it doesn't get hurt. But the reality is the world is writing. All of us have grown up proud on the values of Sarve Bhavantu Sukhina. So if something fires in the face of who we are as a country, the values we hold so dear as thought leadership in the world, then it is the responsibility of the government to respond to it. But I have seen minister after minister struggle in television interviews in front of friendly cameras to say what NRC documents are likely to... Possibly some of the ministers are not for it. Possibly. Let me complete. How can a government after spending crores and crores on Aadhaar standing in Supreme Court saying that everything from your telephone number to your income tax document to your bank account have to be linked in Aadhaar, stand up and say we don't know whether Aadhaar is a necessary document for NRC. I think that's one statement. In front of demonetization like sign where there is zero accountability and every one of us would have to prove. At a time when people are struggling for better education, golf or livelihood, the economy has stank. We want every citizen to stand up and prove that they are citizens of this country. So I think that communication is completely unaccountable and irresponsible. It has spanned fears. People don't want to look at those fears because for a long time the government has gotten used to riding communication on the piggybacking on communication on the back of a friendly media that obliged some friends to... Modi media. And that is currently work firing because it is not the opposition that is leading the charge. It is people who are reading and responding and the government is unable to respond because there are only two people who can respond. One responds without a discourse and one responds with a discourse but with selective anchors. Okay, Gaurav wants to respond. Clearly your voice at least resonates in this room and predictively as a lot of people would call these protests elitists even the beauty of democracy is you preach what you are not doing because I know of political parties who have not been sending these folks persons for a meaningful dialogue for six months. I mean it has got nothing to do with it but I am just letting you know. You know my team was very worried that both of you are on the same panel. I said no, it's okay, they will do absolutely. So I look at it differently. I would again, you know, talk about Article 370 and how it was amended in Article 35A. I think the preparation was so good, communication was so good that a historic decision was taken and Kashmir was fully integrated with our country and I am sure the audience here knows that Article 370 in the constitution was a temporary provision. But for 70 years, no elected government had the courage to actually remove it. So Modi ji ensured that it is done and in a democracy we may disagree. I will again say I don't want to make it political, you know. He was talking about the Home Minister, the Prime Minister. I think we do it every day for four hours on television. The audience here is for something where we can agree to disagree and then also agree on the core issues which affect our lives. And that is why we are sitting here. So I would like to, you know, place the bigger point here. In a democracy, parliament represents the will of the people. If the CAA is passed by the parliament and in parliament you have discussions, you deliberate. But ultimately, if there is majority, a bill is passed, it turns into an act. Can an elected chief minister after that say that I will not implement this law? And this very chief minister has actually taken oath under the constitution Anurag ji that I will protect the spirit of the constitution. I think they will be complete anarchy, chaos. If we stop respecting our institutions which have proven their ability to keep the nation together. My second point. You know, nobody would tell you and I would again request maybe Ghan Shahan ji can answer this. Can anybody tell me for Indian Muslim citizens? Is the CAA taking away any right? No. Second, if they say our constitution is in danger, then tell us which constitution is in danger, which is violated. And along with this, I will give you an example. There was a protest going on. I saw 16-16 year old Anurag ji screaming there. We are in danger. We are in danger. So a channel reporter went there. He said, you tell us what the protest is about. He said, protection, protection. The other one said, who is it? He said, protection. And the journalist asked, what is the protection of the nation? So the child did not know anything. He hid his face from there and went to the other one. And the reporter said, whose protection is it? You are saying this is a stage. I will tell you in one line. So he said, my protection is my protection. He said no. So the reporter said, today's protest is about Rahul Gandhi's protection. So the children who were protesting, they did not know what protest it was about. But you called 25 people, and they were shouting. So I will say again, if the Supreme Court is now seized with the matter, whatever the Supreme Court decides is final. And after that, we need to accept the verdict. But here, mongering, selective reading of statues without even reading. I think if you start protesting and opposing the democratic process of our country, it doesn't augur well for our democracy. Fantastic. Because the communication is a quick comment. Just to add to that, you know, I have every right to protest and express my protest, even if I have a genuine living at about what anarchy could be in future, so far not being drafted or notified. I can have imaginary illusions about CAA and I can just perceive myself to be under danger. So I have every right to protest, even then, even if I have hallucinations. I have every right to. But I do not have a right at all to create a riot, to break public property, to indulge in vandalism, and to interfere with someone else's right to peace, to livelihood, and to transport and communication. What we saw yesterday happened. Just agree on that. I have been there, you see, and I know how these protests work, and part of me is exhausted, and I realize how naive I was in our part of the Nazare movement and what we were saying and what we were doing and what we were doing. So I, in fact, have evolved in that sense, and I take back because the serial protest every time breaks a fabric and look at the educational institutions. The least we can do is for students to do well in their grants to concentrate there and to protest against whatever's happening. But not in this unpeaceful manner. What Delhi police did and the excesses have to be condemned. There has to be action and nobody can take that away. It is absolutely wrong. But to beat up policemen to throw at you Khadeuro them like you saw happen in Lucknow in Ahmedabad, it's a very bad sight. There's a lot about us as the people then as political parties. Thank you. I want to ask you very quickly because we are communication. I don't want to draw. I don't want to deny it. You take Donald Trump got impeached. I mean, in one house, the other house, they don't have. But he's in the last three to four weeks used that as an advantage in communication, painting himself some martyr as a victim, as a witch hunt against him because he has the people's mandate and the Democrats are kind of not accepting him and it's become very personal whether it is. Similarly here, of course, the BJP has a constitutional majority so on and so forth. But there is a 30, 35, 40% of the population which is not voted, which is a large population from the BJP. And the Prime Minister said we should take all of them together. We should take all of them together. They are turning communication which is seemingly negative on them as an advantage with the core constituency. There is a, we know there is a certain constituency which likes all this, which is very anti-Muslim there I say, which is, right? So tell me, is there something to learn for a communicator from whatever is happening? So I believe that communication is as much listening as it is speaking. And what is clear in this particular scenario? It's ministers, right, are still saying TAA, TAA and NRC in two different tones. It was not people of India who demanded NRC street by street. It was the home minister of the country who went rally after rally from April 11 to speak about NRC. To say that we will we will take out our grandfathers' document and our grandfathers' document is supposed to decide whether we are asylum seekers or ghuspatia or citizens. And did anybody ask if the home minister from April 11 rally to fill this date has not been able to articulate where does Adhaar stand in the face of NRC? That one comment I would say did great confusion. Stand in the face of NRC document. Then why was he talking about NRC? Why should the home minister of this country fans here? To the point of communication is as much about listening. What has happened clearly in this particular case is the opposition was in debate with the government but the opposition became weak as a result this debate bypassed opposition in a big way beyond what happened in the parliament. So the raw political narrative of NRC which was purely divisive and fear-mongering reached the people directly and as a result people are reacting and as a result the government is not able to respond because government knows fully well how to respond to opposition. They know fully well how to invent and respond. So the listening part my final point on this is I think politics is becoming whether it is in Donald Trump's case in the US or in India when the Prime Minister of India was in power in the run up to 2014 the country rallied behind him because there is a communication of direct to voter in hope. There is a different communication that happens unsaid communication that happens when it comes to fear what we see right now is that unsaid communication but eventually politics will become B2C in my opinion direct to the voter direct to the citizen and in that people who can communicate saying that look no I can't fool you by saying CAA in one chapter and another chapter and not connecting the two even though you know it is connected I know it is connected everybody knows it is connected people are fearful but I choose to nuance it we sometimes decide column in times of India called a problem for all solution he calls the view you are I just you know yesterday I was watching Navika's interview I left at about 9.40 from the wall with the Home Minister and she asked a very simple but yet the Amit Shah ji you tell me sometimes bipartisan politics dialogue agreement politics that happened 20 years ago 25 years ago there is no convergence of views there is no agreed way forward there is this is our way and we are moving forward and she asked this very brave question to the Home Minister and of course he replied I wouldn't say that he was very convincing reply but he did make attempt and he did try to explain so I just want to close by asking and then bring the audience really we want to keep to our time what are your true rules of communication that you follow when you go to a TV debate when you come to an event like this I know you can't take away your BJP hat is an important hat you believe in ideology and what it is doing and I want to ask you a point quick question and is the RSS for us I don't know whether you comment is the RSS for what is happening in terms of CAA and NRC in the top 3 people in the RSS are they happy see 2-3 things first of all when you say that when you go as a spokesperson and you have multiple hats I will tell you something when I represent my party I also represent as a lawyer so whatever I say but it is legally and constitutionally right it is showing the party line and third and most important I speak as a citizen you know party line is very very important but my party has taught me to be sensitive to the needs of the citizen and yes you make a very relevant point when it comes to communication and having a dialogue interstate between the party why is it that the opposition today is reduced to shouting slogans coming to the bin of the house or you know taking out faults in the bill that is to be tabled what about having a constructive approach making 5 suggestions how we can improve the legislation that is to be built or you know tabled so the point is I would wait for a day Narendra Modi ji is a communicator par excellence we have seen Man Ki Baat we have seen how he comes on all important occasions and he addresses the nation but why does the opposition shy away from just reaching out and saying that we want a discussion on this these are our constructive suggestions please either convince us or you get convinced I think that should be the beauty of democracy that you have a dialogue and then you know agree to some in 2020 will the prime minister give a press conference see I will answer that as well how yes how you communicate press conference is not the only means by which you communicate every leading channel in the run up to the 2019 elections got interviews from the prime minister and very lengthy one it was an hour one and a half hour a friendly channel I think you are degrading the media calling them just bear me up I would only say that this is another problem with respect that today if two BJP folks persons are sitting here and one from the opposition you are biased if the media is asking you a tough question you say the anchor is biased if Narendra Modi ji is giving interviews to certain channels you say they are all friendly channels and what about Amit Shah ji I think I was very impressed in the way he engaged with Navik so the point is only this in a democracy communication is the key but somebody would use the social media effectively somebody would give interviews somebody would communicate through rallies somebody would have round tables with 200 people in the hall as long as you are accessible you are voicing an opinion and you are also you know taking opinion of the common man and that is the essence of the community good we will open it we will take 2-3 questions we are running a little late but quick one question you ask another question no one has any other question please don't laugh otherwise I will say quickly tell me Chetan we need mics for people you are not a loud Punjabi from Delhi otherwise you won't need a mic Karab ji you said a very good thing you said that our prime minister why did he go out and talk to the public will he talk to the public tomorrow through the TV the country is getting worse the country is getting worse the children are dying so when they vote on the TV they will come and talk I understand your question the only thing I want a clarification for whom you are asking do you believe in your country you are also a citizen of India do you believe in it my name is Khushid Ahmad I have a lot of emotions I also love my brothers but I am sitting next to them I will also ask them a question my question is why are our young children dying they are your children when you can vote I would like to give one camera in Jamia wait a minute I am absolutely sure that if any child gets hurt otherwise it is very bad then we also have pain and Anurag ji said that a 4 constituency voter is BJP I disagree with that for the reason I will tell you until the elections are not done everyone will vote for their party but when the country's prime minister is elected whether the voter has voted for him or not he will be protected he will get education he will be protected this is the responsibility of the elected government you said prime minister will you communicate so let me tell you Prime minister made the first appeal all the sensitive issues and this issue that any Muslim sister will not be the one who has the right and Amit Shah ji is the prime minister and this is the matter of the prime minister you will agree he has also made many appeals so from the communication from the government giving ads in the newspaper we are all communicating and one big thing let me tell you that as much as the role of the prime minister or the role of the ruling party the responsibility of every citizen is that as we have just come back the draft that has not come will be discussed wait for the draft and then in favour of what Mr. Bhatia has said sometimes we prejudge the issue in this case while there are real issues that may also be happening I am not convinced sir I will say with you have a cup of tea maybe you can convince me that is the beauty of democracy one on one thank you sir let this lady ask I know sir no questions of people I know I just want to ask the protest is being seen as a student protest yes it started as a student protest we are not talking about children now if the protest has moved away from being just a student protest and the average citizen has come on the streets to join them how is that being communicated or not being communicated correctly so you say the protest is becoming larger than the university phenomena and the student phenomena I was coming here and before that I was watching a news channel which one which one I will tell you something the beauty of being a spokesperson is that your fingers are never at rest you keep on switching channels to see which channel is covering what but see it is good if you want to protest you want to show dissent and maybe yes there might be citizens who are concerned apart from students but please also understand that a vast majority of the country is happy with all these reforms that are taking place and today they are not out in the streets so they cannot be counted but their voice, their opinion is equally important as those who are protesting and as long as the protest is you know non-violent the protest does not hurt other citizens they do not create inconvenience for a person, for a brother or a son who is carrying his father or a brother to the hospital and you stop the ambulance I think in a democracy that shows a lot about the essence of democracy and the strength of our democracy fantastic we will end this I think we will have he is the spokesperson of our party he is the spokesperson of our party Ma'am that is what I think we agree there that as long as the protest is non-violent it is all fine but since we have this habit of watching television just yesterday a cop was being beaten and he was running for cover we have seen what happened I belong to Lucknow what happened in Lucknow so we are one when we talk about peaceful protest but then there is you know when it comes to pelting stones at the army it is not a conference on CAA it is a disconnect here it is not a communication conference it is not a CAA conference I just want to one last comment from both of you Mr Tiwari is there a spokesperson you admire outside your party and why you cannot name Arunab Goswami he is not a spokesperson of our party he is a very close friend of mine I think we are a strong democracy because there are a lot of people who have with good facts and without temper shaved public discourse Abhishek Manu Singhvi for example in Congress late Arun Jaitley used to do it I think one thing that I can say as a spokesperson and have been a spokesperson at the Samajwadi party for many years never ever have my national president called me and said that why did you articulate this issue in this manner so there is an element of you as a person taking all your knowledge to television part of your job is to inform people and build a discourse in a gradual way and as I said as much listen and I think we are fortunate people have been able to do that in parliament outside building informed debate without pushing for an instant public opinion on a certain manner Thank you Mr. Tiwari Mr. Bhatia I asked you this at Inba in February is there a spokesperson apart from Mr. Tiwari that you admire my friend Dhan Shyam was also part of the panel then and you know he is now taking the answer that I had given in that conclave because I named Abhishek Manu Singhvi ji and Arun Jaitri ji and Arun Jaitri ji but I must say that the individual is definitely important some of them are great speakers but every panelist who comes if you follow the panelist and the spokesperson you would learn that they have some individual traits and qualities which are very unique and there is a lot to learn from that person I will give you like you know my colleague Sudhanshu Trivedi ji and why do I say Sudhanshu ji I will tell you that you know everybody has a unique style but I have seen that Sudhanshu ji he is very angry no Sambit Patra ji Sambit again is a great you know spokesperson and also there are many in the congress I think he may give competition to Sumer he is very funny he makes a smile in a good way that is what I am saying some people like to put forward their point aggressive Sudhanshu ji is very balanced somebody likes to add some humour but the point is how effectively since today's congress is on communication how effectively you are communicating that it reaches the mind the heart and the soul of the listener thank you please give a big round of applause