 We're glad to know you're still there. It's another time to talk on a hot topic, and in spite of public outcry and without a legislative nod, the presidential yacht has arrived in Nigeria, even though the chief whip, Lin Dume, has said that it has not been paid for. We have Mr. Shagun Shopwiton, public affairs analyst, that will help us make sense to what is happening. Good morning and welcome to the program, sir. Good morning, Mr. Agadir. Morning, Agadirans. Okay. The presidential yacht, we had that controversy. The Senate passed it, that it should be paid for, and the House of Rep said, instead of using the five billion for presidential yacht, it should be put in education for student loans and all that. So we were still waiting for the harmonized bill that will be returned to the president for ascent. And then we heard that the presidential yacht already has reached Nigeria. We don't know how that procurement was done. We don't know how things like this happen. And in the last administration, we saw a lot of spending that didn't have any legislative blessing. We'd like you to just throw more lights if you have any knowledge about how the procurement process should be like in Nigeria and why this kind of a thing should happen. Well, to be honest, I think that there's a lot that happens with public procurement that Nigerians usually do not get to hear anything about, except when some of those issues get highlighted by some civil society organization or maybe just by accidents, the information gets into the public domain. Outside of that, there's plenty that happens in governments that if people were to become aware of, people would lay an egg. It's pretty bad. And with regards to this specific issue and this specific item, the information that has been put out there, and of course, and I say that I use that expression because that does not necessarily mean that it is true. But the information that has been put out there is that this Yacht, or Yacht, I don't know which one it is, as the case may be, had been procured before this administration had been in fact procured by the Bwari administration had been paid for, but is only now being provided for in the budget. And I think that if that explanation is true, then the former president has questions to answer. The former minister of defense would have questions to answer. And the present, very crucially, the present civil servants in the Ministry of Defense in particular, and maybe some people in the presidency who are also civil servants would have cases to answer. How did we procure an item that costs the country five billionaires without a budget provision? Because that's basically what they're saying. That question is a question that if this administration were serious about accountability, serious about trying to ensure that things are done properly, serious about corruption, then an inquiry must be put out there just to satisfy public interest. And I think that the president and maybe his supporters must understand that satisfying public interest is a very significant and important part of governance. If your people are unhappy with what you're doing, they will not cooperate with you, they will not support you, and your chances of failing will be significantly higher. So I think that there are questions to be answered. And those questions should be asked by the president and his team just to satisfy Nigerians, especially given the backdrop of the difficulty and hardship that Nigerians are going through. On the one hand, we're telling Nigerians to make sacrifices, tighten their belts, we're buying petroleum products, a petrol in particular, about three times in some places, almost four times what we were buying that product just four months ago as a result of exchange rates, unification and the floating of the Nigerian currency. Inflation is pretty much out of control at the moment and prices of goods and services increase on a weekly basis. That is the backdrop of this conversation and it's the backdrop of this event. And you then understand why there is outcry in the public and you then understand why it is absolutely critical that that outcry is taken seriously by the president. But is it even possible to acquire an item that has not been paid for? Because that's the argument that the Navy and the Analini Dume are giving, that it has arrived in Nigeria but it has not been paid for. It was ordered by the previous administration of Muhammad Abu Hari without legislative approval anyway and it got to Nigeria without payments and they were planning in the supplementary budget to spend five billion Naira on it. Does it really happen like that? It's impossible. So even if you have not paid for an item as a government, so it's possible for government to procure items on credit. Anybody can sell any good or any service to anybody with the promise to be paid at some point in the future. But even in that situation, even in that scenario, a public procurement process must happen. The budget process must happen. The fact that you have not paid cash today does not mean you will not pay cash tomorrow. Now does that, the essence of budgeting in public affairs in governance issues is to ensure that people do not go out on a whim and acquire things and spend public funds, which means that before you can plan to procure any item, before you go out to actually procure that item, you must seek the approval of the National Assembly who are the representatives of the people. They must give a nod for that item. Having secured the nod for that item, you can go ahead, conduct a public procurement process, very stringent and very strenuous and time-consuming as it is and then at the end of that process, you can procure that item without paying cash. You can procure it on credit, but you must go through those processes. You can't say, because I'm not paying for it now, I can just collect it. I mean, governance doesn't work that way. So I find it quite interesting that people of the standing of maybe Anand Lin Dume, who has been a senator for as long as I can remember, will make things like this. And in fact, I think we should check and be sure that he actually said, because he knows that it's impossible for you to procure any item without credit or having paid cash without budget provisions for that item. It's just simply, it's turning the entire governance process logic on its head and it can't be true. Yeah, it is even more confusing because Yusuf Gagdi, the chairman of the House of Representatives Committee on Navy, said the Navy will have to be investigated. He also was the chairman of that committee in the Ninth Assembly and he said he was not aware of this. So how did the Navy go about procuring this thing without the parliamentary approval, without even the House Committee chairman knowing about a request in the first place and they just saw it delivered? I don't know. Does the president, the former president, not have a case to answer or something? Well, I mean, somebody somewhere does. You know, there are times when these things happen and it's pretty possible, especially in a country like Nigeria and the way we run our governance systems. It is pretty possible that, you know, some things happen without the knowledge of the president. It's possible that the minister in the specific ministry has just gone ahead and done what they wanted to do in collusion with a number of people. But there are questions to answer and I think that's the key thing. You know, somebody has asked these questions. The explanations that the president and his team, this president and his team has given with regards to this year is not acceptable. You know, and they almost insult the intelligence of the Nigerian people with these explanations. And that is without even then going into the conversation about the proprietary, you know, the appropriateness of such an item in our public life at this time in our history, the appropriateness of the public a yard for our president at this time. I understand, for example, that the United States of America, arguably the richest country in the world, certainly the largest GDP, certainly the most powerful country, economic power, military power, did not have a yard. They sold the only one that they had about 30 something years ago and they haven't acquired one since then. And they sold it because of a recession. They sold it because they were going through exactly what is happening in Nigeria today. And since then, in spite of having recovered from several recessions thereafter, in spite of having had periods of economic boom, if not acquired one, you should have to ask the question, what exactly does the president need a yard for? What exactly, I mean, what trip do you want to conduct to which country in the world that makes any sense having by sea? Just, I mean, traveling by sea is probably the slowest option out there. If you can travel by road, you can travel by rail, you can travel by air, you can trek. Okay, maybe trekking will be slower than traveling by sea. But, you know, a yard traditionally and typically is a luxury form of travel. It's a pure luxury. And all of these explanations just fly in the face of reason. And it continues to raise questions about whether Nigerians can trust this president and trust this administration with the truth and with the best interest with acting in a way that pursues the interest of the generality of Nigerians. That really, really raises fundamental questions like this. Well, yeah, the Navy claims that it is just nomenclature. It's not like it's the presidential yard, that it doesn't belong to the president. It's because of the kind of fittings that are on this yard, sophisticated fittings that made them call it the presidential yard, it actually belongs to the Navy. So, they requested for it, and they are the ones that are going to use it. It still doesn't make sense to a lot of people why they will call it the presidential yard because of fittings that are inside it and why the Navy will be using it and then they're calling it the presidential yard. It doesn't really make sense. But when we heard the story, it wasn't anything about the Navy. It was after the outcry that we began to hear that it was belonging to the Navy and all that. So, why did the presidency agree to budget that kind of money, five billion era in the first place, to acquire it for the Navy if they had no hand in it? We're still trying to make sense out of it. But what do you think? Let's say we believe them and the item just came to Nigeria without it being paid for, without any advance payment being made and all that. No money whatsoever was given to the company and the thing just arrived in Nigeria and the parliament has kicked against it. What do you think should happen to the yacht and all the issues around it? For me, I think it's very simple. In football parlance, in football bands, we say, well, excellent. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, this year, you know, the president really wants to send out the right message to Nigerians. If he wants to show that he is sincere about the demands that he is making of Nigerians, if he wants to show that he is ready to lead by example, the deed has been done, subsidies have been removed, exchange rate unification and floating of exchange, you know, our value of currency has happened. If he wants Nigerians to buy in and embrace these policies and not continue to mourn and complain, he must take remedial action with regards to this one single item, you know, the symbolism behind this. Somebody might say, oh, it's 5.5 billion lira in a 2.1 trillion supplementary budget. It's only a minor fraction of that entire supplementary body. Somebody might say it's not a material spent, but we must not miss out on the importance of symbolism in leadership. So if the president is asking Nigerians to make the sacrifices that those policies have sourced on them, you know, we didn't ask for this. I think Nigerians were perfectly fine where we were five months ago. Honestly, I mean, things could have been far better then, but they are significantly worse now. Nobody asked for this. So if you've done this, without people asking for it, you must show in symbolic gestures that you are also going to be making sacrifices. That yacht or that yacht should be sold. If it's true that it's been purchased by the last administration, there wasn't any payment for it, and this budget provision is just to pay for something that's been acquired already as illegal as that sounds, two things must happen. One, whoever is behind that illegality must be brought to book. They should face the full wrath of the law on the one hand. And secondly, remedial action must be taken, restitution must be done, and that yacht should be sold, should be disposed of. And the president should make it public, make a public show, you know. There are certain things that are opportunities that quote, carry a greater weight on this course of events in the national journey than maybe they even, than their actual value. And I think this is one of such moments. If the president can take this on, tell Nigerians that, look, I have no need for a presidential yacht, I have no hand in this, we are going to dispose of this as a symbolism and a symbolic gesture to Nigerians to show that they know that we are not here to play, we're not just here to have fun. I think that might just have some kind of impact on the people that are already angry, on the people that are already unhappy, on the people that are suffering great hardship at the behest of the president. I don't know if we will have that kind of will, that political will to do that. It could have impressed upon the national assembly not to do the kind of spending that they intend to do, that they have done already buying cars of 160 million he didn't. He saw the presidential yacht and he still went ahead and put it in the budget asking for that kind of money to cover the presidential yacht. I don't know if he's going to have that kind of strength that you're seeing to say sell it, or he will just do the Sao Lui, will go to Sao Lui because remember people had cried that this 50 percent that was removed from the BRT now being returned is too much for people to shoulder. And he said, okay, let me meet you halfway and I removed 25 percent something that was supposed to be as a palliative for this fuel subsidy removal. And now instead of just saying, okay, I have given up, I'm not removing the 50 percent anymore. Let it be the way it used to be said it's removing 25 percent from tomorrow. Maybe that's what the president will do. Just look for something else and make us forget about the real issue that is happening. I don't know if you have that kind of confidence in the president administration that they can do take those kind of decisions for the good of the people. I don't know. As a goodbye message, give me that kind of confidence if you have. I'm sorry, I don't have that confidence but I don't think it's difficult for him to do. I think it's absolutely something that the president can do and I think it's something he needs to do. I don't know whether he will, but I don't think he, I think that he should. And it's also very quickly, let me also add that, you know, with regards to the National Assembly and the embarrassing expenditure on SUVs, again, you know, very insensitive in given the context of the times. But it's important that supporters of the president would argue that there is separation of powers and independence, you know, in the arms of government and the legislature is does not answer to the president and therefore the president cannot have a say in how they decide to run their projects and their affairs and they will be right technically. Of course, I would disagree because I think that leadership, there is a reason why we have one president and as he has said, the buck stops at his desk for everything that has to do with Nigeria. So even in places where there is independence, you know, and separation of powers, there is something called leadership, leadership, you know, leading by example, everything rising and falling on leadership. And the president definitely can place a great moral weight, great moral situation on the National Assembly with regards to that thing. So you're right. I mean, the president was very silent about that. Is he likely to do anything about something that is directly under his podium? We will see. But I will strongly advise that this presents an opportunity for the president to perhaps show Nigeria that it's not business as usual. And he intends to be different. Okay. Thank you so much, Mr. Shagun Shokwetson, for coming on the show today and sharing your thoughts. Thanks for having me. We've been talking with Mr. Shagun Shokwetson as a public affairs analyst. He came on the show to talk about the fact that the presidential yacht has already arrived in Nigeria. Whether it is paid for or not is out of the question. The thing is, it's here. Will it be paid for? Will it be used? Will that money go just like that for something which Nigerians feel is not that important at this time of our national history? Well, time will tell. That's how we are going to wrap it up on the show this morning. Would like to say thank you to you for being a part of the show. Let's do it again tomorrow. On behalf of the entire team, my name is Nyam Gul at Gadji Singh. Thank you for being there.