 Welcome to Web Chat Wednesdays. I'm Chris and I'm a studio guide at the Long Beach Public Library, and I'm here with Ryan. Hi everyone, I'm Ryan. And our special guest today is Mariah Hoffman. Mariah Hoffman is a designer and entrepreneur based in Long Beach. She started her own business called Micro Modula and has designed and built her own tiny home. And Mariah, we're so happy to have you here today. Is there anything you want to add to the intro? Happy to be here. And yeah, happy to talk about my tiny house and the process and my brand. Thank you so much. So great to have you. So our first question is how long have you been based in Long Beach? So I have been based in Long Beach close to coming up on two years. What does it feel like to be in a home that you built? I think being in a home that you built, just not only built, but kind of seeing the whole process, the process for me took basically five years. And it's pretty humbling, especially kind of seeing, being intimately involved in every, you know, phase of the build and planning. Yeah, it's, it's pretty sacred. On your blog, you speak about creative awakening that inspired you to begin building your tiny house. Can you talk a little bit about what led to that awakening? I was, you know, fresh out of college years back and living in the Bay Area at the time. And, you know, just trying to figure out life and work and trying to get, you know, a stable livelihood going in was just really struggling in terms of not only like financially trying to build a solid foundation for myself, but just trying to explore what, you know, where my interest was going to take me and what was really calling me. And I was, you know, working multiple jobs, retail, everything barely getting by, and was really trying to like reflect on, you know, what, what was really calling me in terms of like my path. And I took some time and especially, you know, when, when your back is up against the wall and you really have, you know, no fallback plan, no financial safety net, I was really kind of, I was really called to like dig deep and try to understand like what's really going on and what do I want to express. And I'd always been interested in architecture and design growing up as a kid. And I always like kind of thought about building my dream home and you know, with kind of relationship architectural magazines, but I always figured it'd be a longer term process. But coming out of college I just was, you know, really I felt kind of more and more pulled to explore architecture. And so I just started doing a lot of reflecting on, I picked up a book called The Artist's Way, which was really helpful in terms of like unlocking where my creative and artistic fears were, what was really holding me back, why I was shying away from exploring certain things. And then I actually, at that point, you know, it's been a few months of just trying to like understand and unpack like what's going on, why I was still being drawn to architecture, what it meant. And at the time, tiny houses weren't even really mainstream, I would say. They were kind of, you saw them on Pinterest a little bit on some blogs, but they weren't. HGTV hadn't really come out yet with, you know, with the tiny house nation and all of that. And so, but it's been kind of a little, you know, there's a little seed in the back of my head. And then it wasn't until I actually was on a trip with some family and I ended up in Northern California and ended up stumbling across a tiny house in person, the first one that I'd ever seen in person. And I was like, freaking out. I was like so curious. I'm like, this is one of those tiny house things and I was just like nosing around and like, basically just like hook my head around and this woman walks out. And she had like tools or chops on everything. And I was like, what is this? How do I do this? And she was so gracious, you know, let me walk inside. Let me kind of see the space for myself. And that's like when it clicked for me. I was like, I have to figure out how to do this. It was basically that moment of like, she told me about, you know, how she learned to build over the course of the year. And you know, with the help of her family and for me that was like the permission of like, if I can do this, you can too. And I didn't know exactly how I was going to make it work. I just knew like, I have to try and do this and then that'll get me to where I need to be somehow. So that's when I kind of like I got hooked and I was like, I'm going to try and figure out how to make a tiny house. And I did. I think it's really interesting that it's slightly your adventure was slightly inspired by like a chance encounter. Yeah, and it was it was chance, but it was also like, I think for me, you know, having had I not done so much reflection on like what was really calling me what was so important to me and also like what it meant to me and the livelihood I was trying to create for myself, you know, like trying to find and build my own safe space and like what that meant. Had I not done that reflection, I probably would not have even, you know, been called to, you know, walk up to the stranger and ask if I could see inside their house, you know, and so I just felt like it was pretty synchronistic. Yeah, that's awesome. It's really cool to hear this process of like that inspiration and the reflection. And it makes me wonder when do you feel the most creative. It's funny because growing up I actually grew up in a family of artists like traditionally my sister's a painter. My grandmother was a painter. My father was an art dealer so I actually grew up around traditional like fine art I guess you would say. So I actually didn't even consider myself an artist or creative for a very long time I actually was like I rebelled and like did everything else I like played sports and I did everything else and I didn't even consider myself an artist per se. And it wasn't until kind of circled back into, you know, design architecture in the tiny house I realize I actually do have a very strong creative voice. But for me, creativity is really kind of interconnected with like problem solving and working with my hands. And so, although I love to sketch like I feel the most creative when I'm even just like bringing it out and I really like spatial visualizing so I really love to just like be loose and sketch, charcoal, watercolors, all of that fun stuff. But when I actually moved through the, you know, was working through the process of the build I actually realized, you know, it's when I have a problem to solve like how am I going to fit, you know, a bed within this space and I have to actually figure you know the framing plan or something like that to me, the architectural design of that or the design of the actual fabrication of that is usually when I feel the most creative but it's usually linked to again I have to address some kind of, you know, challenge or puzzle when it comes to like spatial, spatial designs. How did you get started putting this idea into action? And what did planning this project look like for you? Saw my first house in person and I was like, I've got to do this, I don't know how. At the time I was living in the Bay Area and my mom was living in San Diego and she recommended coming down to San Diego because there was more space for like, you know, construction and fabrication. And at the time she was working out of another maker space is called maker place in shout out maker place no longer exists actually but it was an amazing maker space where you know there was woodworking metal working all of that. And so she said, just come down here, you know, you'll, you can be exposed to all the trades and just kind of play around and see, you know, figure it out. So I ended up packing up my life in my little Honda fit and moving from San Diego, sorry from the Bay Area to San Diego to build my tiny house and started just kind of going to make her place religiously and just showing up and trying to learn as much as possible. But I realized the first phase was really just the planning like you said in terms of how I get a trailer, where do I park it where do I build it there's a million questions you have to ask yourself before even starting this project. And so I kind of landed in, I landed in San Diego, and I realized, okay, the first part is just planning as much as I can with what I knew at the time. You don't know what you don't know when it comes to this type of work so I spent eight months actually just in the planning phase, figuring out even how I could get some cash or some capital to even get a trailer. I found a meetup group of other tiny house enthusiasts at the time, and I ended up kind of leading an eight week workshop to kind of go through all the different phases and it helped me put together like just research basically. And so just was in conversation with a lot of people, and over the course of eight months and then eventually that led to me getting my trailer so that's kind of just with a lot of like networking researching and planning for about eight months before I even started a construction. Yeah. And did you already know like construction like how to do construction beforehand or did you. I barely knew how to use a drill when I first started so it was this entire thing was like, I was so eager to just learn hands on but I had close to zero building skills when I first started this project. So I knew I would have to take baby steps. So that's when kind of make or place became an invaluable resource to me when I first started. Do you have any advice for people who are like barely starting to use tools. Yes, so start small. Even though it's a tiny house it's not a tiny project so people often say like build a shed first I say build a box first you know, learn how to frame something very small and like use that as a starting point. I, like I mentioned a little bit about make or place, it was an amazing resources that it was a DIY fabrication shop and so there was a wood shop metal shop laser cutting 3D printing. And so I actually just, I showed up every single day, and then finally it was like I want to take all these classes, but I couldn't afford to pay for them and so I ended up becoming the office manager of the fabrication shop. Every class that I could, and was also able to like mingle with you know contractors and cabinet makers and welders. And like you know women running their you know fabrication, you know businesses and just was so it was a such a rich resource for me to just I mean I basically went to maker school, you know, and I was just trying to kind of learn as much as possible so I'll show you some solutions for people before even buying tools see if you can join a maker space if you can to just try things out. Take some classes. I know right now it's tricky with cove it but there's a lot of online classes and start small, build a planter box frame something small, then maybe build a shed. And then if you're interested to go bigger, but I definitely put off a little more than I could shoot it first. I love hearing how a maker space like was able to help this come to fruition and to just help you with everything because there are these resources like the library. The studio at the library that are like here and they like want to encourage people like us who like love making things and love designing things and building things, but like maybe don't have the knowledge like right away or all the knowledge but it's there, it's there. But it was also a resource, you know, I mean I couldn't afford to buy all the tools when I first started, for example, and I didn't know exactly what tools I was going to need and so that was the great resource of a maker space you can rent all the tools, obviously on site. And at least become more familiar and comfortable with not only tools, but all the different, you know, how to maintain them, and you know the ins and outs of the machinery, and without having to invest thousands and thousands of dollars upfront. While you're just learning so it's a yeah it's an incredible resource for that. It's so cool that you know you just like carve your own path, you know you couldn't afford the classes and so you like you that a lot of people will probably be like, Oh, I guess I can't do it. But instead you know you became an employee there, which is dope. Yeah, I found a way. Also bouncing up a Ryan said like yeah I wouldn't really be where I'm as like a designer unless I had like walked into the studio, which is the maker space of the Long Beach Public Library like the old one. Like I had no idea about anything about 3d printing. And I was like going to school to be like an English major. And like I just saw like all the cool things they were doing and I'm like dude I just want to do all this stuff all day long. So I think that's another like, there was like another tip embedded within that I think of all the things you're saying that was just like going out into the world, and like talking to people and networking and just you know, just exploring the world. Yeah, well, and I think I like to think about it like creative play. You know, there's, it's different when you're running, you know, fabrication, industrial design company where you actually just need to go into production mode but you have the privilege or you have the space or somehow have the space to just play around I mean this is something you know this is again the value of design and exposing kids to this at young age because it really allows you to just open your imagination, not be afraid to like mess up. You know, you're might you're probably going to build something that's not going to hold up or whatever but you can at least play around enough to understand your ideas and at least like I said, that's for me how I work out my ideas like I can sketch it and I can visually also like to just work with materials. And it's a great, I think it's just, it's an important part of any design process is to iterate to keep iterating and being okay with that because you're never going to go from idea to like perfect end product. On the first try is just not useful. Yeah, definitely. I know you said you bit off more than you could. Maybe something specific. Yeah, so there were plenty of learning lessons in in this process, the, I guess you could say biggest in terms of like the scale and the impact of this mistake or not mistake but just this challenge was my framing so I actually bought a trailer use trailer. People traditionally frame their tiny houses out of what, at least in the first few years of the movement before framing out of what and basically bolting it to a trailer. I bought a used trailer that actually had an existing steel kind of square tubing frame that was welded together and had a really good bones and it was really solid foundation. And when I purchased the trailer, I realized that it was little if I were just to have enclosed the box that it was a former ATV trailer so it was used to haul like motorcycles off the desert so I had a really good axles like good bones. But if I were just to have enclosed it the way it the at the scale that it was, I mean it was like, you know, sweat narrower and like only about like six feet tall or something like that I would have really felt like I was living in a shoebox. So one of my first tasks was actually to like reframe the my trailer, my frame. And so in my head I was like, Oh, yeah, we'll just like you know chop off the chop off this frame and like reweld it no problem. I ended up taking me a year of just that process, because I actually because of the original frame I decided to actually continue that with the welding, you know the same kind of material tubing and welding all together. But I didn't have person say I didn't have former blueprints to begin with I was kind of just like designing as I went along, which I wouldn't do again. I kind of built a box and then I learned I hired a friend as a structural welder to start me off and just kind of help me get the outside box and then I learned to make a place and through working with him how to prep metal grind it weld myself and then within a few, you know weeks to a month that was welding the rest of the house but that just to get the frame kind of restructured so that it was a foot wider and about three feet taller so it actually kind of was comfortable enough for me that ended up taking close to a year. So, I wouldn't do that again. I would have plans for my plans at least more so in advance and I mean now there's like aluminum frames which weren't really popular before but you don't think well that you can just snap it together bolted versus having a weld. So yeah, I mean I don't regret having learned because I was actually like I learned to weld before I even learned, you know, I had a grinder and a welding machine before I was even like had a drill. So that was actually not traditionally the route that people do with tiny houses but I don't regret that part but in terms of like that process I did not expect that that would take me that long but you know I had an inch my way through that. I didn't know that you needed to know how to weld necessarily to build a tiny home. Well you said you didn't for like aluminum and stuff but I think it's not everyone needs to I actually didn't do a traditional route that's why I kind of was like, I mean I for for my particular project I also wanted a trailer that would be I wanted my frame to be more structurally sound when it's toad. And so I figured if it's all welded together to the actual trailer frame versus just being bolted in place just felt like it was more of a solid foundation to work with. And so I don't like I don't regret that but not most people don't typically do that but but it's possible. Yeah, well I think it's really awesome how you take a maybe what could be considered an obstacle and turn it into a learning experience. And I think that's like a really great skill to have in general. I'm grateful to know it especially to you know have that again add that to my toolkit. In this process that's definitely even if I don't you know, use it all the time it's just really empowering to be able to know what goes into. And I mean there's even different types of welding, but just to understand like metals. It's definitely, you know, when it comes to construction there's, there's like the woodworking and then some, you know, many people don't even get to the metal working is it's really intimidating it really is honestly it's an intimidating material heavy. It's really like tricky to work with and it's not as forgiving as what if you mess up. I think that that process of like having to like mass not just master but having to work with a really, really challenging material up front. I think it did end up like kind of grooming me for the rest of everything else kind of after that felt a lot easier, because I learned to kind of like work with a very otherwise the very material. What section of the tiny house are you most proud of, and what was the thought process behind designing it. Learning to weld it was like, I, by the end I just like I felt like a boss, you know, because I was like I could speak to you know a material that I'm not a lot I mean, because actually I realize a lot of women are amazing welders. It's actually very people think it's a very gruesome like process but in fact it's actually very like hand I coordination and precision, at least the kind of welding that I was doing and so it required a lot of patients but that was something that I actually became really proud of. And so what how that informed the rest of my build and I'm really proud of it because the way I kind of worked with it was, I decided to leave since I done all that work. I decided to leave parts of the frame exposed inside the interior of my house and as a nod to kind of mid central mid century architecture, kind of exposed deal beams I wanted that I figured, if I could at least if I did not I done all that work. I wanted to at least be able to like I don't want to just cover it all up and panel it all never be able to see it so I left some the beams exposed on the interior of my house and I get to at least appreciate it. And celebrate the material and in the work that I did so I'm most proud of it and especially because I know every, I know the sweat that led into like every single corner. Sometimes tears to you know, do what I had to do to get it done so. I love that there's like a story behind every individual part of the whole build. That's really cool. And another very important part is the name of the tiny home. Can you tell us how you decided on the name Lola for your tiny home. So, I was basically, let's see, I was at the point where I was actually purchasing my trailer I was you know, writing up we were crossing the you know pink slips we were exchanging the pink slips in hand from you know this use trailer that I was purchasing. And it was like okay this is like the marker of like this is the step you're taking this big step to finally launch your journey and it was a huge moment for me. And as I was in the process of purchasing my trailer, I got a call that my grandmother in the Philippines had passed away. And my I'm half Filipino so my mom's side is from the Philippines my Lola, Lola means grandmother in Tagalog. And so I, you know, it was a very emotional moment as I was launching my journey what felt like the beginning of my life what felt like you know embarking on this is very kind of spiritual creative process to hear that my Lola had passed away in that moment. It just felt like I just wanted to be able to honor her and her life you know she immigrated from the Philippines and raised my mom and my aunt here, basically, you know, as a single mother, and just had she not done that like there's so many you know, linkages in ancestral histories that I just want to be able to honor that led led to me being where to me having the opportunities that I have today and so I figured it was, you know, not only to honor her but also to our my maternal grandmother was something that you know felt like it just felt right to be able to kind of carry on their history and speak to that. And that spirit of, you know, a grandmother and like that protector and that like ancestral history definitely I felt like was able to, you know, hopefully was able to honor that and carrying me through the process and the journey. I think that's a beautiful way to honor her, especially because in like a metaphorical sense to you because like she came here and she you know she started a legacy and then you know you're building this like physical version of that through your tiny home. Yeah. Also applaudizing in advance because the garbage truck is passing by right now so if you heard that in the background. But that's awesome. I think it's especially meaningful that like she traveled here and your tiny home is a building that travels and she is home. I mean I don't want to speak for you but at least grandmas are and your tiny home is a home that's traveling so I think there's something really special about that. That's a really nice sentiment I think there's something to the mobility for me the house, even what it represents in terms of allowing me to, you know, not only mobilize myself but to create kind of that social mobility. I think through the process and through the work I think that's, yeah, there's a lot of parallels that continue to come up and it kind of started with this very kind of intense moment and I appreciate that because it does, there was a lot to that movement. And that history that I think is important to, and a lot of a lot of people can, you know, can resonate with that to a wheel I have a lot of us have, you know, histories of, of movement and transition and, you know, immigration and all of that. And that line, what places have you taken your tiny home. So I don't live with that often, because it's not as easy to move as it seems. Some houses are built, you know, a lot lighter and they're meant to be moved all the time. My intent with the house was never to was maybe to kind of be stationed a few years at a time. And I did tow it once when I basically finished the frame we had there was an open house and maker fair and maker place actually in San Diego and we had, I brought the frame, we told it to the event to kind of show people the process. And that was pretty cool so that was the first time I'd seen it move you know as it was kind of becoming my home and and that was a pretty surreal experience but then we brought it back to the build site and then finish the build and I haven't moved it since. But it eventually I mean it's built on a, you know, a trailer hitch so it just needs to be like, you know, hooked up and connected to be able to be towed but yeah haven't moved it since then I'm a little nervous not going to lie moving it's always scarier than it seems because it's like your whole life in this in this on wheels so We're gonna switch gears a little bit and talk about you know like design. How would you describe your design style of the house or just the brand in general. I would say I guess the brand in general, if there is like a through line. Yeah, so I've got a few pillars that kind of guide guide my design work and I know we're informed by the house process sustainability modular and minimalist. And they kind of represent different kind of different feelings for me and so whether it's from the jewelry that I make. Which is made from all my earrings are made from scrap acrylic and so, you know, materials that I found in maker place what's what's the thing I realized actually a maker place and then that you know fabrication there's so much waste. And so it's actually actually able to make you know jewelry not only for myself but just from from waste of you know others production so I actually worked with my first made the jewelry. I made it for myself with a friend who actually shared a laser cut kind of party supply brand and she had all this crap and so she was able to partner with me and she, you know gave me your scraps and I was able to cut my original earrings out of that and so to kind of, you know, And the limit as much waste as possible. So sustainability for me is really, it's really about materials but it also for me connects back to what is equitable in terms of resources. So how do we understand how much resources we use what's equitable for the planet and equity also you know sustainability and equity kind of are very interconnected for me in terms of how we access materials, and how we care for the earth and how we care for, you know, our own community. And then the other pillar being what did I say oh modular so you know I have products. I'm hoping to watch more products in the future but right now I have just earrings and I've prototyped a few like tables as well they're modular and for me that's a pillar because I think of modular design as resilience. And so if it's adaptable if it's if you have furniture, for example that can flat pack or can, you know, be adapted to different uses, then if you're more, you know, adaptable than you are more resilient. We're seeing that a lot right now as it retains to COVID people living at home we need things and products that are going to be able to serve multiple purposes. And so I just really have always been drawn to modular design. So my earrings for example, they're all interchangeable you can just change the wires with different colors, some of them are reversible, and then hopefully in the future, you know more home products that will kind of incorporate the modular aspect as well. Same thing with the house, you know I wanted to have as many kind of grid like features that I can adapt so my kitchen for example has shelving that I just use like a retail grid wall so I can actually just adjust the shelving to different heights or different lengths depending on my needs so that was something that for me informed that you know design process and then minimalism is a huge, huge thing for me I mean you look at my aesthetic it looks minimal it minimal in terms of aesthetics but for me, it runs deeper than that and it's about intentionality. And so that was the biggest thing about, you know, about this tiny house process for me was really understanding, you know a lot of people when they hear the words minimal, or even tiny house they think of it. In relation to scarcity. And for me it's about the opposite it's about really taking stock in what you really need. And what is important to you and what your values are and so that can come in the form of material objects and it can come in the form of relationships. And what's important to you and your values so those are the three pillars sustainable modular and minimal that really kind of inform my products and my process. I think it's great for like artists and creators to have pillars or like just like, yeah to have like an internal compass and know exactly like what they're trying to make. And yeah you touched a little bit about modularity. And I think that modular design is really awesome just because, and it does fit really well into sustainability because you know, we make things that aren't really built to last and they're often built to break intentionally. I think if you know the world starts designing things that are more modular, and they're built to be, you know, continually to be built upon, I think we could end up in a better place. That's great. Also, I really liked your modular. You had like this acrylic acrylic. These two pieces on your website that were really cool and you could like rearrange it and make these geometric. They were both sold out. Oh, they're big too. Little 10 by 10. Yeah, I, you know, I was talking about play. It's funny you said that because I just found this the other day. I, I loved, you know, trying out depth of like, you know, with acrylic how do you do different layers and levels and that sort of thing. So, yeah, that was a fun little, you know, in terms of about now like laser cutting laser etching I was kind of just trying to play with like how would we proceed if you if you layer different like etchings on top of each other. So yeah, I'm hoping to, you know, in the future do more kind of products but I think right now it's, it's interesting because the modular products for me or something that like that's, that's the creative play that I get to do so whatever you know if maybe every year you have a different product or different furniture piece or something like that and that, that to me is kind of like the rotating thing that whatever I'm inspired by whether it's materially or a need that I have. I got to use the products as that kind of outlet. When you're younger you would go to like architecture magazines and like design magazines do you have a favorite architect or designer. A favorite architect or designer so, or several of them. Yeah, there's a there's a few. One of the greatest architects that I was inspired by what is an architect by the name of was an architect by the name of Samuel Machby. And he, I'm ever seen this documentary when I was like, I don't know maybe seven or something and I was like, mind blown because he he started this program in in the south called rural studio and he works with architectural in rural communities to design beautiful kind of beautiful homes. For those who, you know, need access to housing but they all the all the designs are informed by like we claim materials so it was like kind of the true essence of like reclaim before we claimed was like a sexy thing like it wasn't really a thing at that time but it was really beautiful design using as, you know, all all new, I'm sorry, all kind of reuse and repurpose and found objects and I remember that being like so beautiful and that program still runs. I just always been inspired by that. Another architect that I was inspired by growing up was Frank Lloyd Wright. I originally grew up in Chicago, and then my family relocated to the southwest and so seeing both Taliesin and I'm sorry Taliesin West in Arizona and seeing how that design could be transferred to kind of a desert landscape was, you know, was really inspiring for me as a kid. Kind of again it was like using you know sustainable materials in essence but still keeping that kind of modernist feel and that was, that was something that was really inspiring. And then more currently, as I kind of started getting into the maker scene and fabrication. I was really inspired by there's an architect and builder designer educator named Emily Piloton. And she's got an amazing program doesn't doesn't has done amazing work for young women, and in this type of work called I think it's called girls garage now might have been project each design at some point. And there's a lot to empower young young girls teaching them tool, you know how to use tools and how to do design work and just basically, you know, exposing them to this work at a really early age so I remember seeing her stuff early early on as I was kind of starting my project and being really inspired, especially as another woman of color in this industry, you know any voice you can lean on to kind of affirm what you're doing is like, it's nice to have that to, you know, that evidence of it and. And so that's, you know, that those are a few examples of work that I'm inspired by. You mentioned your jewelry, and I see you're wearing your jewelry which is awesome. Can you tell us how you first got started designing jewelry. Yeah, so I, again I was working at maker place at the time, and was just, as you're mentioning you know exposed to, you know, there are people working on, you know, woodworking projects and running their own businesses and there was just a lot of scrap material, just around all the time. And so, for me, part of it again I was playing around and I wanted. I love the jewelry for me that's bold and makes a statement but is also lightweight and makes sense, as someone was walking around like, you know, the shop all the time so I wanted to create designs that were both lightweight and also like bold and kind of impacted can still be, you know, whatever I want them to be. So, at that time. I like I said I made friends with a really good friend of mine Nicole Rosario. Her company now it's called you belong here but at the time she was being laser cut. Again party where and so she had a ton of scrap, and she's like hey do you just want to scrap and I was able to the original hearing design linear is actually just you know it's basically very simple and that's it came from. I really had to make use of like tiny little pieces of scrap so I cut them in like long rectangles. And I just started making a bunch of them started wearing them myself and then you know what I really like. I started cutting more. And then. Yeah it's just kind of a fun thing at this point and I'll be launching some more, you know, hopefully some more products in the coming to me, I think, not sure when this will air but small business Saturday. I should have some more products out as well and those are also available on my site so it's just you know it's a fun thing for me and it's also big as an easy entry point into kind of my my brand and my work you know I'm not selling tiny houses. But it's also, if you got my website you can see if you want to she know support the brand and support the work that I do it's one way to do, you know, to do that. I love that and I love that it's coming out soon this is a little teaser for that that's great. Can you talk about how your design process of jewelry is similar to or different from your design process with home construction. I mean, it's a lot easier laser cut an earring is to build a house. So their scale right is the biggest difference. But the similarities being, you know, prototyping iteration playing around. And so, I think that speaking to the pillars again about modular minimal and you know intentional. So, when I first met my earrings I knew exactly the shape that I wanted and I ended up making the earrings that I basically wear them every day, because I knew exactly, you know, what I was trying to express the feeling I was trying to create. And same for the house so modular elements in the house that I knew, you know, I want to be able to adapt like the kitchen or you know, tables that fold down. And in the essence of modularity in the essence of sustainability and minimalism it kind of all applies to both the jewelry and the earrings just at very different scales. Where would you like to take your brand micro modular in the future. Yeah, so I actually going to do a little plug now. I am I've got some exciting things in the works. I have, I'm, you know, wanted to continue this conversation at all that I learned in terms of this process what it means meant to me in this journey of, you know, self exploration creative exploration. Again, as a woman navigating this architecture construction and fabrication I really want to continue that conversation and also support other women in this process and explore, you know, again from the tiny house planning side to the design of the bill there's a lot that comes at play. So, in December going to be launching some new things. I can't give all the details right now. But if people get on my newsletter. If you go to www.micromodula.com, you can get my newsletter and on December 1, I'm going to be launching something really exciting. In the way of kind of like, I'll just say virtual learning. So I'm really, really excited I've been working on this of the past few weeks, actually a few months to launch this program and really excited to share so you got to go to the website, get on the newsletter or you can follow me on Instagram, micro.modula. And that would be, you know, the easiest way to kind of hear about what's coming next. Are you working on any projects that you could share at the moment. That was the biggest one that I wanted to plug. But I would say, yeah, stay tuned for the first on the summer first for that. And then new earrings, like I said are actually that I can I can share is going to be launching on a small business Saturday, so you can get some earrings for the holidays. So that's coming up in a few days. And then the other thing I wanted to mention. So the, I think I'm not sure if I mentioned this earlier but you know growing up in terms of like you designers that I was inspired by or kind of work that I was inspired by. I grew up just like devouring architectural magazines. And so while magazine was one that I, you know, from a really early age was incredibly inspired by, you know, just seeing the, you know, not only the beautiful, you know, aesthetic, but just kind of trying to, you know, transmit the future that I wanted to imagine for myself into those scenes, but it was really a lot. It was a huge inspiration for me growing up. It was a huge accomplishment for personal accomplishment for me. This, this year was my house was actually featured in the magazine in an article which was like, you know, my 12 year old self was like, still freaking out a little bit. That was huge accomplishment and I was actually just found out I was actually nominated for their 2020 design awards for small spaces category. So you can be so kind as to go vote. They have a, they have, you know, their 2020 design awards. And in the category of small spaces, my house was not laid. So if you go to the link either my Instagram or my website, or just do all that calm like the link on the top you can vote for different and voting closes on December 16 and then the winners will be announced in January. So that's just one of the little plug that I just was like, you know, I'm really proud of not only just the work, but what, what the work says and speaks to in terms of the narrative and including the narrative of accessible housing in, in the room of high design, which was a huge goal for me. That's awesome. I could only imagine like how it feels to be in some magazine that you used to read in their younger and you definitely have my vote. I'm sure you have everyone else's. Congratulations on your nomination. That is so exciting. Wow. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Yeah, it's, you know, again, if anything, it's whatever happens, I think for me it's really just, you know, I'm speaking to that little girl that I was at that time wanting to see, you know, women that look like me represented in these types of platforms and I think it's something that that to me is like what I'm most proud of. Do you see any potential for tiny homes and Long Beach? It's a good question. It's a big question. You know, there's a lot that to unpack when it comes to legalizing tiny and that is actually something that you have a whole hour conversation on that. But I will say, and they're actually, you know, my role, I don't see myself as like a formal advocate per se, like I'm not lobbying for this type of work, but there are those who are doing amazing work as it pertains to advocating for including this type of structure in different like municipal codes and in the zoning bylaws and whatnot. So I think there's an amazing group called Latch Collective. LA co-building, I'm forgetting the acronym right now, apologize, we'll have to link it, but they've done amazing work to actually legalize tiny homes as accessory dwelling units in LA. So there's a lot of groups that are kind of individually mobilizing to kind of get different cities and municipalities to accept this type of structure as a feasible living structure. And so that is, you know, that happened last year, that was a huge win for LA and what it speaks to is kind of understanding, you know, part of it is defining this type of structure, right, like under, like, creating a definition for how many square feet, you know, what are the building codes for this type of new structure, and the other part is getting cities to accept it into their kind of into their code. So that was a huge one for LA. In terms of what that means for Long Beach, I think, you know, I think there's can be a similar path for that but I also understand that like every city is different in terms of the real estate that you're working with. Right, so accessory dwelling units in LA that makes a lot of sense because you have a lot of granny flats, you know, you have a lot of those types of units that can be just either converted or, you know, used to park a house in that kind of in that space. There's not a ton of backyard space in Long Beach. So it kind of changes the script a little bit, but I think that, you know, the more cities that start to accept this as a as a viable living option, the more creative we can get in terms of the spaces that we use and how we use them. So I think if anything we're making progress San Diego is also legalize them as well they're creating their own kind of I think protocols in terms of getting that permitted but once LA converted and then San Diego was able to accept it as well it does kind of speak to, you know, there's more and more need for this especially right now, you know, with the pandemic and housing being so unstable and people's access to housing being so unstable like whether I think we should or not it's where we have to go in terms of having options for people and different options for people to safely and comfortably live in cities. So I think it's possible I just don't know couldn't tell you exactly you know how when but hopefully it will will make steps in that direction. Yeah, I think there's some hope Long Beach City Council just they're considering doing like micro housing units. I'm not sure if that was passed or not. But it's definitely a thing and yeah living along beach is really expensive so I think it would be nice for people to have some affordable options. In every city is going to be different with your talking about you know density of you know micro units in in downtown versus how can we use you know backyard space versus you know land or what was the other one kind of carriage garages in the front like there's different versions depending on the density or depending on the type of infrastructure that's already in the city. Dang. You guys are like outlaws. It's pretty cool. What are some of your favorite places in Long Beach? Favorite places. So I have I shouldn't blow up my spot but I mean what when outdoor dining is allowable which sadly it's not right now. But there's a taco spot in North Long Beach called out west way. It's got amazing back patio and it's a great little spot awesome food and shout out Noel and my friends did them you're on the outside for power a few years ago. So it's a it's our little treat to go over there and have a nice little taco on the patio. When we can when we can safely do that. And I also love I live in Alameda Beach right now. And so one of the things that I really grown to love and even appreciate even more during COVID it's Alameda Beach neighborhood just because I walk all the time now and I've been walking a lot before but I walk through my neighborhood a lot a lot now and I just have learned to really like love and appreciate just the neighborhood and you know I've got my my routes that I do and I see I see more now I've noticed more about the neighborhood in the past few months because of just, you know, being home so shout out on this beach. The last question that we love to ask all of our guests is, can you tell us about a memorable library experience. Yeah, so a library or Long Beach, I'm assuming Long Beach. It could be I mean we love you to shout out Long Beach library, but it could be any library. It's funny that you asked that because I grew up around the time that I was like really getting into the magazine and like in terms of like, like looking at it I lived in Arizona at the time, and I was in middle school at that time. And so one of the past times like if I just, you know, needed to get away from stress of the home and just everything that was going on. My sister my big sister and I would go to walk over to our neighborhood library shout out Tempe public library. And we would walk over because it was like, you know, a few blocks away, and she would go to the art section, and I would go to the design architecture section and I would just, you know, hunker down and we would just spend a few hours there and that's when I really started like, again, I would just check out all the books on modern, you know, modern architecture. And that's even how I started to like, I would, you know, look at well look at all these things and I would even start to like, I would check them out and I would just practice my sketching so I would just if I liked kind of, you know, an interior or you know certain angle I would just practice like drawing it and in the way that I saw the photograph would help me kind of like understand like perspective and like things that I liked and so that was like my favorite thing to do at that time, especially when, you know, things were hard at home and just wanted to escape it was like a great way to escape and it had AC so there's a great way to cool off and also like just get lost in this world and you know my sister would go do her thing and then you would just like walk back so great that was that definitely was a was a good memory of, you know, that time. Wow, thanks for the library. So that concludes our interview. Thanks again for all your time. This one was a doozy was really you had these really long detailed answers and so we have a lot of stuff to work with. So thank you. Hopefully, hopefully don't have to do too much editing, but I appreciate the conversation. And I'm excited to see the new jewelry that you drop. And I'm excited to see, you know, the future of your brand. When I can only imagine like what's going to happen, you know, when things open back up again, and I'm excited. It's cool how much you're able to do like during quarantine and like, well think like things are still virtual like, like it's really awesome that you're able to still connect with your audience and your patrons and like give them material and help them and continue your brand and your business. What I'm going to do right now is really just lean into that, you know, because telling my story I think is one of the most powerful ways to connect with people. And there's a lot to unpack there but I just, you know, hearing how it's connecting with other women and inspiring people in general I think is something that I realize is like, just have to keep doing that. And if anything because we're, you know, we are more comfortable with virtual now and because we're, you know, more used to connecting in this way I think it is. It's an opportunity to connect with even more people I think because it's one, you know, it's a platform that we can lean into right now.