 To call, it's January 9th, 2023, meeting of the Praximec Advisory Board to order. Can we please start their roll call? Erin Angel. Here. Scott Conlon. Here. Thomas Davis. Here. Paige Lewis. Here. Sam Libby. Here. Nicholas Novello. Here. Dan Olson. Here. And Counsel Liaison Tim Waters. Here. Well, our first order of business is to welcome our new members. So Tom and Sam would be great if you could just briefly introduce yourself. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about your interests in this board. Yeah, absolutely. I'll be honest, during the board I'm much more interested in just getting behind something that's already actively working before showing up with any sort of dam ideas of my own. Yeah, and so I've been in Longmont now for about three and a half years. I've got three little kids, so Paximec is intertwined with my life indefinitely. And so, yeah, I'm just really excited to be here. Thank you for all for including me. Cool. Nice to meet you guys. I'm Sam Libby. I've been here for a couple of years in Longmont, two and a half years, and seven and older. I'm just up the hill in Oldtown. I'm excited to be able to contribute and hear about the things you guys are sharing here. I'm interested for a couple reasons. Like Tom, I have little kids so that my life is intertwined. Definitely with Paximec, I like that. That's crazy. I also serve on the Boulevard County Planning Commission. And so I'm used to kind of their way of doing business. This is a much more local to me since the county has no sway over Longmont. You know, this is a little more close to home for me. And I'm really interested in what we can do to provide feedback for the projects. The what? Boulevard County Commission? The Boulevard County Planning Commission. Planning. So I think it'd be good if we could each just maybe quickly introduce ourselves. Nick, if you want to start just three more and how long you've been on the board. Sure. And why? Yeah. I'm Nick. I've been on the board. This will be year three, right? Wow. That's really good. Bye. Holy cow. I am on this board because I, like many of you, love Longmont. And I love our Parks and Recreation System amongst other services that our city provides. And I want to do my part to contribute towards it. I want to build a future of our community. So that's me. Great. Hi, Erin. I'm Erin Angel. And I am pretty new to the board. I just joined this year. And I joined the board to kind of represent a lot of people I worked with, which are people of color and some marginalized people. And also to represent some of the things that don't have a voice like the animals and the plants and things like that. Scott Conlon. I live in Midtown as well. I've been on the board forever, I guess. I'm on a board bicycle Longmont. Do a bunch of events in Longmont. So that's kind of what draws me to the board. I guess I've been here the same time as Nick. So this is year three. It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. I guess one year was my first choice. I'm Dan Olson. I've been on this board. This is my last year, which means you're six because you only get two, three year terms. This is my last year. And I joined because I'm like you, I had little kids. Now they're growing gone, but we're heavy park and rec and pool and everything users. You look around and you'll see me. And so like you guys, I wanted to give back. I tried to get on this board 25 years ago and they said, no, thanks. So I showed up again. So it's been great. And I'm Paige Lewis. This is my starting my second year of my second term. And I fit, I was chair last year and this year, two years. I've lived in Monmont since 2011. So it's been a while now. And just everything about this board really resonates with both my personal and professional interests. I work in the conservation field and also really committed to the importance of recreation and open spaces for people and for wildlife and nature. So it's really great to be part of this board. And I really enjoy being able to be part of this aspect of our community. Great. Welcome. Thanks for that. Yeah. You're going to do stuff. Thanks. Tim Waters, I'm the liaison. Each board or commission has a council member that liaisons to that board of commission. This is my second term or opportunity to liaison to this board. This is maybe the best board to serve on as a liaison. This is a cherry job. Everybody lobbies for it and I got it. Awesome. What's the worst one? Yes. Your favorite part. I'll ask you later. Yeah. I'm going to put it. Okay. I'm just going to let it out so I can reply. Actually the worst one is actually what needs on Tuesday nights. I'm Daniel Cassidy. I'm a natural resource project manager in parks and natural resources. And David Bell, director of parks and natural resources. Jeff Friesner, director of recreation libraries and music. Is that official now? Yes. Congratulations. That's awesome. Good for all of us. What happened? It shortened the name. We wanted to get done tonight. It's been a one-day tour. Yeah. I'm Suwala Davy. I'm the recreation program supervisor. Great. Steve? I'm Steve Rinswater. I'm the senior budget manager of parks and natural resources. Thanks everyone. Great to have everyone. And happy new year. I interrupted the sale at the beginning. So next, we have the opportunity to elect a chair. And I will say, I'm happy to continue serving. I'm also happy to pass the gavel on to somebody else. So if there is someone who is really interested, excited in serving as chair, please let us know. We can do the nominations process. We'll also need the vice chair that I think is coming in and out. And I'm sure there's someone else that is interested in serving. I'm interested in having you serve. You do such a great job that no one... I was going to say, I was going to nominate you. I appreciate that. I second the nomination of Paige Lewis as art. Is that something that we do? I second the nomination of Paige Lewis as archer. All those in favor? Any opposed? Thank you. I really appreciate the vote of confidence. I do enjoy this and I'm happy. So we do also need a vice chair. Nick is our current vice chair. I don't know if you're interested in continuing or if there's anyone else who is interested in serving as side chair. I would love to continue, but I'll say I'm just curious if there's others. Good by me. Yeah? I'll second that. I'll second that. I'll second that. I'll second that. I'll second that. I'll second that. All those in favor? All right. Any opposed? All right. Great. Thank you. It's for your vote of confidence and Nick and I to continue in our rules. So we will move on to approval of the agenda. Do you have a change? Yeah, I'd like to. You can't involve football. No. But it is about priorities because the meeting may have the potential to go along tonight. So I'd like to propose that we do Old Business A, then New Business A, and B to make sure we cover those three levels. So we will move on to approval of the agenda. We'll cover those three levels in CDE. But you'll remember. Yeah. Okay. Any other proposed changes to the agenda? Don't we need to do New Business CDE and F early on? Yeah. Not as much as these bigger items because we can. We should fly through those. I agree. I thought we used to do those like right off the bat. Nope. Usually they're under New Business. Okay, fine. Great. Any other proposed changes to the agenda? No. All Business A and New Business A and B first. Great. Can we get a second? One second, Matt. All right. All favor. Great. Okay. Now we will move to approval of the previous month's minutes. Which I don't know if you guys have a chance to read through. Yes. Does anyone have any edits or changes to the minutes from last week? I was impressed that you got all that in there. So what nice thing. I figured out who got which points and which names. That was impressive. And I couldn't tell you that you got anything wrong. So. Thank you. If there are no changes, let's probably get a motion to approve the minutes. Sure. I'll move that we approve the minutes as written from last month. Okay. Second. All favor. Great. The minutes are approved. Now we'll move to public invited to be heard. I don't have the list, so if you... Seems to be just me. Okay. Hi. My name is Ben McKinney. I live here in town. I was working in the back two months ago just observing and listening. I'm here because I have an interest in possibly being on the board at some point in the future. I think I just have sort of two questions. At the November meeting there was talk about two new people and then possibly doing... Or they're still in open seat. I was just curious if you had a vision for the seats just so I can mentally think through what the commission or the board is doing. If you're able to share any of that. Both seats were filled so there won't be an open seat until the next cycle. Okay. So they are all full? Yeah. Okay. And that means... So until next... Next January. Next January. Okay. Process will occur in the light part of the year with appointment is starting January. Got it. Okay. The notice comes out when... October-ish? Yeah. Early October, maybe even late September. Got it. Okay. And for the... What is this commission's role with regard to the city manager, you know, the potential tax or mill levy increase, you know, for 2023? How does this commission have an active role or passive role? That's to be determined again. I think we're waiting for direction from the city manager and leadership and be determined what the board role will be after that. Okay. Which I'm hoping they come soon. Yes. It's an area of interest. Yes. Great. Thank you. Anything else? Nope. Okay. Thanks for joining us. So now we will move to Old Business A. Yep. And I'll just... Just a quick reminder and especially for folks that are new. If you could please, if you have a question or if you can call me, I'd just raise your hand just to help some of you kind of manage and make sure everyone has a chance. If you guys don't, we'll do like a staff presentation first and then questions. Or if you want us to just like talk throughout. That's pretty... We generally... So Old Business, this is kind of the format of our agenda. And we go through Old Business, which is follow-up from things that we've discussed previously. And usually it's the staff will present an update or discussion item. And then we open kind of... Okay. Yeah. And then we got a new business, which is things that are new that we haven't discussed before. Again, usually a staff presentation. Again, usually a staff presentation. And then number eight, items from the packet updates is where it's just kind of open... If you have questions about written briefings in the packet. And then items from staff are things that were not included in the packet that staff want to share. And then items from the board is just open questions. Thanks. Sorry. I should have found you though. Okay. Item eight. Book of Open Stays and Trails Grant. Is that you Daniel? Yeah. Okay. I was going to say, Daniel's going to give her a little help. Ever since Dan Wolfer retired... Well, a couple things. Dan retired and Kathy has moved on. Steve and staff have been doing a lot of extra work. And Daniel's been really helping out with the open space portion that Dan Wolfer will have been working on in the past. So, Daniel's going to do this piece here as far as our work with Boulder County and how we cover them on properties. You can map it and put it up. I think this is an opportunity to come later in the meeting. On the 29th of December, this parcel right here is Adam Derry. We finally closed that. So, we start seeing as Daniel talks about this, how this is all going to start fitting together in our conversation. So, with that, I'll turn it over to Daniel and talk about what would be what could Boulder County have been like. Yeah. Okay. So, what we're talking about is annual acquisition planning, open space acquisition planning for the city of Longmont. And every year around February, with the exception of last year because of the pandemic related. So, we haven't submitted anything to Boulder County since 2020. We just got a gap. But typically every year, if we have anything that we would like to partner with them on, they put out an application and all the municipalities around Longmont, Lewisville, Superior, Erie put in an application and say these are the items that we're thinking about and these are the ones that, you know, we're asking for a partnership on. And so, we did that. We did in 2020. In 2020, we asked for Adam Derry and we got a significant contribution from financial contribution from Boulder County to make that happen and they're going to hold the CD over the parcel. That was $2 million in Boulder County. And so, we ask for open space requests for partnerships and we ask for trails requests for partnership with Boulder County. So, we asked for the parcel east, oh, so that's Adam. We asked for the parcel east of Clover base in the reservoir. And that is there. It's in this area. Or it's in this area. Is that purple, you don't know what the color is, but to the west there, that is open space acquisition. So, the stuff you're seeing in that purple is open space. That's cool. And so, and then the green is Boulder County land. So, we get asked for that. And in 2020, Boulder County said they'd be willing to partner. If an opportunity becomes feasible and funding is available. We asked for Highland Beach water rights. So, that has to do with the Olander property. It's on the corner of 66.5. So, we have double six ranch and heartland here. And so, this would be the Olander property. And so, this is for sale from a private developer. But he sold off the water rights to Boulder County. So, they hold the Highland Beach water rights now. So, this is a dry land property that is got potential for water rights. But, go down by Boulder County and this is for sale by a private developer. So, that was on our priority list the last time we submitted. Dry Creek Greenway to Lagerman. That's down in here. Yeah, it's like going through here. Yeah, as Steve, maybe as we're part of frustration with that around. Steve's working on some projects over in this area in the dry creek area. So, it's developed. Dry Creek Trail will come up in here basically with that end over at 75th. We, by the way, have a great opportunity to have some sort of underpass way to get over onto the H. Blue Sky property, this county open space. If we were able to, especially, acquire something here, again, be able to come to here and have an opportunity for more of a passive recreation, wildlife viewing, it's really have a low impact area that could tie all this together. So, moving out to the west with our trail system, giving us opportunity to do the Blue Sky Trail, kind of that, to get up to the Clover Basin as well. And then we asked for water in the Clover Basin as a floor. Yeah, which we, again, if you came through here, you could do this, or you could just come in and do a loop here. And so, under all of these, Older County's answer was similar. Yes, we partner if funding is available and, you know, it's feasible at the time. And so, when we looked at all of these... I think I got it wrong. Oh, Rocky Mountain Greenway Trail Master Planning. So, Regional Trail Planning, we are asking Older County to pick up and lead an effort that got set down before the, after the flood. It was something that Older County had started leading Regional Trail, so it would be the piece coming from Lions to Rocky Mountain, from Longmont to Lions, and then the next piece would go to Lions to Rocky Mountain National Park. And so, Older County, when the flood hit, had started listening sessions and was working with other partners in the area to work on this Regional Trail, Rocky Mountain Greenway Trail Master Planning. But then that got set aside and hasn't been picked up since the flood. So, our request, one of our requests at that time is, could you pick this up? Could you lead this? And can we partner with you, finding grand dollars? Because of our, because it'll go past our Button Rock Preserve property. Not through it, but it will use the same access, likely, so, you know, we would want to be part of that. So, those were our requests at the time. And so, when we sat down and started thinking about, what would we want to request for this year? Well, Olander, which we looked at, we considered Olander. And as I explained, it has no water rights because Older County owns them, so they asked them what it would be to give us the water rights, as opposed to contributing financially. And then we were thinking that we would maybe do a three-way partnership with Water Resources, because this could be an extensive property and it could be helpful to them. But because of Union Reservoir expansion in the future, because then they could secure more land. But when we reached out to them, they said, you know, it's outside the footprint. And because of their non-interest in it, and our interest in it being sort of low in terms of open space because the water rights have been severed, we're kind of thinking that we don't want to ask Olander County to partner on this at this time. This is not going to be, this doesn't rank as a high priority right now. And going through all the rest of these, these do seem like longer term on five-year planning scale priorities, but in terms of what we want to partner with them on this year, considering that we just finished Adams, considering that they just gave us a $2 million contribution, the way we're thinking about it now is kind of, instead of asking for anything this year, just telling them that we have things on the longer term horizon and that our program needs to refocus on management planning, which is something that we in Natural Resources, Natural Resources have been wanting to do for quite some years, but really haven't had the staff. So the open spaces that we have, get management plans going for them and get that planning and programming in place. And then next year or the year beyond, when something big and important comes along, then we can ask Boulder County at that time and we won't kind of exhaust our favors by asking for something every year. But also we wanted this to be a discussion. So I flew all over the place, and why don't we go around and go back to some of these things and have a conversation about, ask questions about anything that I presented. Great. Are there questions, Dan? So do I understand that we're going to ask for nothing or ask for the same things that we asked for before? We are thinking of asking for nothing because nothing is, nothing on this list, nothing on this list is going away, but nothing on this list is rising to the top of the big ask. We really need a partnership right now and because we just got done with Adam Derry, kind of just nothing waiting. And does the land or water rights, is that a different program or overseer than trails? So you mentioned the under Nelson Road or the under 75th, but there's also the under the airport to go by the railroad tracks to go up toward Westview Middle School. That's also with, and you haven't brought that up, that's part of the trails ask or whatever. So I'm just wondering if these are, are we still continuing with the trails kind of thing? Steve can talk a little bit too as far as going. I didn't talk about phase 12. Maybe I stand. We haven't been asking for their financial support because we already have that project funded. We would like to, our conversation with them is that we want to time that project for when they're building their projects from Pell crossing to Yorkport Road. And we're all sort of in a holding pattern until they acquire this black property five or six of them. Anyway, so both those projects are somewhat on hold. So do we need to submit something or that's a done deal? I mean, I'm just asking for you guys, how do you make sure eyes are dotted, T's crossed. That is not something you need to submit for this ask. And I mean, I guess I'm talking about two things because I want to talk about what our priorities are for City of Longla in terms of acquisitions coming up, but specifically what I was focusing on is what we would be asking Boulder County for on their application that's due and that partnership. So it's almost two conversations. So that piece would fit outside of what we may put in an application. So not asking for anything for partnership with Boulder County is not to say that we're not going to continue to work on the acquisitions. David's working on Longfellow this year and we do have longer term things going on as well. I think maybe for your questions as far as the open space and trails and water, it really is Boulder County Parks and Open Space really administers those dollars. Those really come in from a lot of the lottery dollars. A lot of places that gets divided up by communities, they used to do their own piece. Boulder County really brings that in and then they administer those dollars and they work with the community to see where they can best leverage that. So if it's a greenway that falls under our ballot language for our open space dollars, we can leverage that as an open space property or if there's water that can support those open space properties, we can use our dollars in partnership with Boulder County on that. So I think so as long as greenway expansions are things we're really hoping to work with them on and then some of these pieces that kind of tie those together protecting water and its most high value areas. Again, I think at one point it was, I don't remember, water's kind of asked how we can kind of decide what these pieces look like. You've got that bond language and it really talks about the idea of shaping the urban buffer creating those buffers and boundaries, preserving agricultural lands, preserving wildlife, preserving those special places. You really start seeing how our waterways start being really well protected. These agricultural lands are really kind of buffered to the east out there. So I think they really start forming what I think you've really read that original ballot language and what it's like for us to do. We really are achieving a lot of that. And as far as the not assets here, those placeholders are still there. So I still think we have the same answers from Boulder County. If we get a willing seller and everything lines up, I think we have their answer on those properties and those are still really our top priorities at this point. But you don't have to re-ask yourself. Well I was going to say we have a contact that we work with Tina Nielsen at Boulder County and I'm going to check with her before the deadline and make sure she doesn't want just, does she want placeholders or what we're working on? That would be exactly what my thought was. You don't want it to just evaporate. You didn't mention that kind of thing. Yes, exactly. All some of those projects come to the bargain sale price and we're like, yeah, we need to make this happen. We'll definitely be saying that we want each other to make sure that's what kind of solar we're at. Are there certain kinds of projects that we're working on in Boulder County? I would say having moved to Boulder County over the years, I think they, even though Adam Derry was a big partnership for them, they really like working with us over on that kind of western side to help create those buffers, working in Longmont to provide areas that we're not the county stepping in and saying we want to prescribe how your community looks. But if there's opportunities there, I think that western side protecting any of those major waterways. St. Frank Creek is a great place to ask for that for help because if you start looking up from the purple there all the way up between the State Park, Longmont, Boulder County, and Lyons, we've done a great job protecting a lot of the St. Frank Creek. So I think if you look at Posters Technic Creek, it's a good good ask. And again, I think that western side brings me to my next point, which was are we all set for Union Reds? I see blank spaces around Union Reds of War and it's going to expand, I understand it, someday. I see gray or whatever color that is that's not either in Boulder County or City of Longmont. Is that an ask we should be thinking about or you have or? I would say we're set for now and water resources agrees with that, but the caveat to that would be that we haven't done the trail alignment planning piece of it since it was initially approved in the plan. So if it changes, it shifts there may be something that comes up in that process. But for now nothing is rising to the top is really important that we need to do right now. I mean you're all under I would say diagonally left below looks more interesting. Yes, exactly. I mean that's an area these are the priority up in this kind of shaded area here, these open space properties, these natural areas that's the reservoir company. Between that and these blue pieces here, there is some in this area that we do a little bit more and those are coming down to a couple lots in us again. We don't like to throw those out there because it's going to be a willing buyer, willing seller kind of over time, but I think kind of using water resources feels like we're pretty close if we had to expand right now to those levels of rise that we need to. Any other questions? Maybe if I could throw one up you asked what Boulder County really is looking at as you start looking this map on kind of what the open space program has been able to accomplish over the years. Are there things that this group would say should be our priorities that's what I would also like to do is say where are those pieces because some don't talk about the original trail you know, if you look at this going from La Monmont to Lyons, a lot of property we want to buy out there, but part of the Boulder County to make that happen is probably a great benefit for our community. I would like to see us protecting left-hand as well. Left-hand looks sad and lonely So yeah, left-hand is a little harder to see people come up here for a while. It's lived really a lot more hemmed in with current development and stuff. So I think it's one of the things the city has done great. All those tools in the toolbox, we talked about our parks or open space and our greenways and that dedication piece and trying to preserve as much of that where it can create those corridors has been something the city has been done a great job on and I think in this last council trying to get even greater setbacks on some of those has been a big piece. There's not a whole lot of large properties to buy along left-hand at this point. I mean, if you pulled just a little bit this way because, you know, Southmore parks have been in since the 60s so not much you can do. You can't tear down my house. But as you go we're like we're by orders of magnitude right now just get it developing now. Like it's huge. Like two summers ago the news was that the bears kept walking back and forth in there. And you're not going to see that because now there are large-scale housing there's warehousing there and there's all that and it's just happening now and right across where Olin is like that's all being developed and you keep going down and that all is important. It's also digitally important. That's all protected by the old county and it's all coming over to the president. Okay, does it all? Like as you get further it does? All the way down to Article 119 a lot of that is another piece of this is that going back to that ballot language is some of the work we do in the city doesn't it? If you look at those kind of shaping of the community around those auto-appropriations we really try not to get into buying properties within the community where our master plans and these are the areas that we're designed that if we're going to have growth in our community we want growth to have in those areas where there are utilities where there's opportunities through that we don't want to stand beyond that. So we typically don't step into buying lots and pieces I just I mean just because it's there's utilities there doesn't mean it should be protected. Uptown Creek is well protected I think upstream of Diagon Island I'm sorry I'm pleasant. I know. I'm Derek. Uptown and downstream of Main Street we've had a project and land acquisitions before that area developed and so we were able to better protect the creek before the loaves and all those houses and things arose. You're right. Felt more parking is built and a lot of the property testing happened between Pike Road and 95th in the early 90s, late 80s and so we sort of lost the opportunity to have a rider being laid into their lessons learned. They would redevelop and be asking for more greater protections but as they would move to it's hard to go in and buy a whole bunch of houses to keep down the sport preservation system that most people would say is really functioning pretty well. And the other one thing I can't say is that gray area just downstream of that is not city property, it's private property while that development to the north the pause place and the system living home two things. That is all setback from the creek partly because of the setbacks that we had instituted since we've learned our lesson and so that's the reason why those are much further away from the creek than the older development along the creek in that order. I was going to say I'm really interested in that the little lake area that's north of Pilgrim and agricultural I can't remember the name of it and I would like to see I mean because there's huge wildlife that's out here benefits in that area and I think there could be some low impact cooperation and so I definitely continuing to protect as much of that as possible with the of interest. This piece here kind of falls into this private property. This is actually owned by the company I'm not quite sure. This is owned by the company which the city is about a 99.9% owner of. So we had the ability to utilize that property in a management way that meets most of the city's needs the piece would be looking at a place up in this area that really ties into that. It's a private lot. Again the area you talked about it's not in our Lawn Moth planning area but it really is buying a pretty decent size lot. It would really preserve that area. If you do want people to come into it they won't be parking right up at that and I think as Saddus talked about it and bringing back these groups it would be an opportunity for maybe some picnicking and wildlife viewing and some maybe portional hiking around it but that western end has some great wildlife habitat and I think one of the things that we always have to look at different members of public and why would you buy open space not just open it all up it's closed open space but there's opportunities to I think find some nice balances where people can get in there they can utilize it and also have places for the wildlife it doesn't always have to be active agriculture doesn't always have to be an active trail. I would just clarify that just because it's outside the Lawn Moth planning area doesn't make it free range because Boulder County planning has some level of expectations too as far as which lands we acquire which lands we don't so just want to make sure you understood that we don't just go into Boulder County and coach where we can they're very supportive of that one though I understand that but just there is a process within the county that does what the city does as far as what lands can develop what they can shoot so I don't know if we're ready to close out this discussion but the way this goes and this is an annual thing when we talk about partnering with Boulder County and what would we want to put in our application whatever we say whether it's we're not asking for anything or we're just summarizing where we're at it's it's an approval by you so I just want to make sure that everybody has gotten everything and no more questions about this. Have you ever not asked for anything before? You know I don't really know but I'm sure that that's it makes it it's taking over for a long time staff person that we're tired so we're not going to be able to do that I don't think it's that out of the ordinary to do what we're doing to just step back and take a year or two and say you know our program is maturing and working on managing the lands that we have and looking for the big opportunities to partner at the same time makes a lot of sense it's actually happening to lots of the programs in the area so yeah but I don't I don't know the answer but I don't think it's a weird thing and this hasn't been super long this hasn't been more than 10-12 years the longest one to go that I could find in Dan's files is 2015 it might be longer than or unofficially this process with the application would not date back to it I think the logic we lack management plans for a lot of the open space properties where we might be asking the county for funds in order to do recreational trails and things that make sense for us to figure out what we want to put there what's the most appropriate for those lands before we ask the county to go question things so that sounds like maybe that's what we put together maybe we want them to participate in the planning process so we have our heads together about what's out there in terms of funding grant opportunities do you have a GoPro planning grant? a GoPro planning grant to support that we could but we lack what people do at the same time so the county do that for us we can support them I think that's either forth yeah I think it's I appreciate that this was probably a longer conversation touched on a lot of different pieces but I think it's a good piece to understand this is a piece internally with staff externally in the community there's that piece of why are we buying more when we can't take care of what we have there's also a piece of if we lose an opportunity we never get it back so there's always that tension between how you are looking at open space properties that's what I was going to ask are we going to lose out on anything half a million dollars or whatever are we going to lose anything by skipping a year I don't think so no but in that time we're not going to lose sight of entities we're going to keep an eye on prices we're going to keep looking negotiations talking to neighbors, things like that we're always doing that we're always trying to maintain relationships there's a piece out there that when we do see those pieces Boulder County has been created with us in the past too where right now it was in the Adam Derry where our piggy bank I was shaking it at the very end to get to closing to make sure we could do that so we may not even have the funds to do this if we partner with Boulder County and has worked in the past allow us to pay them back while we're talking to them too I don't really support it about the idea that Dan we're kind of talking about communicating where we're at I don't even know if these areas are still having just to awesome where we are and just something that's at Face Holder that keeps those priorities fresh in their minds so maybe I'll summary for your approval after touching these with them and make sure we just get that into them by February 10th and then I'll say approve it as a good day to meet I think our meeting is probably after that yeah I guess I'll just do something to see when I see it you're supporting us I guess maybe it's a good one for next meetings so you know I think yeah it doesn't even have I think you shared Dan's which is probably a great place for us to carry forward I mean so I think just to reiterate I think the concept we were talking about is for you Daniel just where you feel like we are with the program why you would not be asking for something this year I think it's important the message about having management plans for the places that we're prioritizing but then reiterating that we're still paying attention to these priorities that we've discussed with them previously and you know we'll want to follow up with those priorities emerge yeah the perspective proposal in a year or two yeah I mean so they know it's not that we couldn't think of anything it was more that we're making a strict smart choice to use staff resources wisely yeah great thank you okay so we want to move to new business A&B and I will I mention this to Jeff that I didn't actually dedicate so you may get to you never know so Swellin is here Swellin and Dabney is here to talk about the proposed new fees for union reservoir after we get your direction it's our go to city council on January 24 to get their approval again whatever you share with us do we as a board then need to have a vote at the end that yes we like it no we don't is the city council going to expect something to correct from us just I wanted everybody to be thinking that way as we hear this alright the fees for union reservoir they haven't been changed since 2018 so sometimes has passed since the last time we had a rate increase and since then the use and demand of union reservoir has increased quite a bit it reaches capacity during the summer months on many weekends for parking and it's a one in one out situation as we look at our information most people enjoy union by coming in via the daily fees so this is a low price for environmentally sustainable loads of entry people are walking in we've got a trail system that's nearby now and actually goes right past it we've got bicycle traffic in we've got a lot of people who carpool in our rate changes for our admission fees it's the same for residents or non-residents it's just a single pricing for people coming in and we are composing that there actually is no change for us if we're walking but it stays at $2 a person the daily vehicle so a car coming in we'd like to propose it stays at $10 with no change on that the changes that we are asking to me is to make that weekend vehicle and holidays between Memorial Day and Labor Day to have that go from $12 to $15 hoping to shift some traffic perhaps into the week that we may use and hopefully make that recoup some more of these during the weekends when we are asking people to wait before they enter our facility we'd like to make no change to daily watercraft like paddle boards that remain at $5 but we would increase trailer boats from $8 to $10 and then the open water swims are contracted and it would go from $8 a person to $10 a person so this is some very nominal changes that we'd like to make that would help out our operations the other increase that we'd like to make are basically the passes the pass holders account for a high volume of traffic many of our pass holders visit over 50 times a year these are folks that come every day to fish every day to use the dog park and so we would like to take a little bit more of contributing towards the meeting reservoir by doing cost pricing that's based on 7 to 10 visits if you come more than 7 to 10 times you'd get a bit bypassed if you're not going to come at many just do the daily things these changes are based they're a little bit more there's a bigger change and these are split by resident if you live in city limits you have different pricing that folks are coming from we'd like to change the first car vehicle fees from $65 for a resident to become $100 for a resident and for the second car in a household it would go from $45 to $70 it would be a 30% discount if you have two vehicles in your household non-resident fees would go from $35 the second car would be a 30% discount on that we would be making a change to the senior disabled pass rate first car would go from $35 of resident to $65 with that second car going from $25 of resident to a proposed $45 in 2023 the non-resident fees would go they also would increase as far as the passes for the water sports water crafts like the paddle boards we'd go from $20 a season to $35 for residents traded boats would go from $50 to $70 for residents non-resident prices would be slightly higher and then the last change we'd like to make we'd like to move into a more organized boat storage where people pay for the price of the the slot that they have prior to now we've had one standard size one price fits all and we've had a resident rate of $375 for residents and $812 for non-residents we'd like to get rid of the resident or non-resident pricing in the future every boat storage person has to buy a car pass which would capture that resident non-resident difference and then boat storage would be based on the size so a standard size would go from $375 a year to $720 a year and that would be for everybody if you wanted a 12 foot standard size we'd have a premium site that'd be for 16 foot for larger boats which would be $900 a year and then the micro site would be for folks that have a very small craft that doesn't have a trailer just a common area that would be a more affordable percentage of it. Questions? Two questions so one is have we done any calculations about how this would impact our premium revenue overall but would be the number how much we would increase and then the second question would be would the extra money, what would we do with it? We're all going to maintenance funds how we actually have the extra revenue. We don't have a direct number but it would anticipate it to go up and the revenues that we would receive the revenues go back to the general fund but we do have the opportunity and now that recreation has two years of working with David and his staff and doing the gate and that sort of thing we have been over $250,000 ahead of revenue each year so when we go to the 24 budget process it'll be our proposal to help reinvest back into the reservoir whether that's in communities or being able to hire more staff and that extra revenue could help pay for those improvements or new staff with that history historically it's how we've done things in recreation that once we have generated enough revenue over what was budgeted we've been allowed to try to re-establish or to reinvest back into recreation and are going to propose the same type of thing at the union right away and I'd just like to reiterate that's one of the reasons when Props National Resources and Ranger ran that front gate and stuff it was kind of using their skills that were its best and using a group like this that really understands how to drive revenue how to use those dollars to recoup stuff to really reinvest in that to just background the experience of staff being able to generate more dollars our expectation would be the season that goes back to the union but it didn't do the conversation that they had with our finance group and council how are we how are we going to make this pill something that people are going to swallow it's a pretty pretty hefty raise on things and so if we're saying oh it just goes into the general fund like I would want to know when I go in like oh we need more lifeguards and so general fund doesn't tell me like that doesn't satisfy my that doesn't satisfy my thing I don't want my general fund that I'm paying extra to go to the police department or the youth center or the whatever you know if I'm a union reservoir like hypothetical maybe I do but I want it to go directly to making sure that we have lifeguards or whatever it's a pretty good chunk and so it kind of seems like if we're just raising it and we don't have specifics and it's not going directly to it we're just raising it and that doesn't remember there are two things we're trying to do number one is try to drive more people from being there on the weekend to during the weekdays the number of cars and people that are setting out on County Road 26 is just a nightmare for everybody people will sit there in the car as long as an hour or more and to the point where we've had to call police and have them intervene when people are cutting line coming from the other direction so we have to do something to help with that part the other piece is not only are things going back into the general fund but the cost of doing business as everybody is aware of two years ago we were paying $12 an hour for staff that's all over $16 an hour now so before we can worry about putting any money in the general fund we have to pay the cost of doing business right now the budget process does not allow us to say we're raising it to do X because the only people that can make that an approval is the city council so we're trying to position ourselves in a way where it does allow us some possible flexibility to do more at the risk the other part of it is that as we compare the cost of going to other locations many of them have stopped going with get as many people in the car as possible to they're starting to look at charging per person and by charging $10 or $15 it's still a very good bargain for people to come in as compared to paying $5 per person and then the bigger costs for the passes is really trying to make it more equitable where the individuals that have the opportunity to go there often need to be paying for more of their fair share they're really getting a rock bottom deal right now and that really isn't fair to the daily pass holders or some of the other users so we're trying to balance that out so that they're paying more for their share of the use long answer or something I still don't think we're that's a long answer how is this going to the public because I can see that I'll be hearing people say like it is for some people and also do we have a way for people of low income to get into union reservoirs sometimes yes I think with the recreation recreation does have a scholarship program that we have not had in place for three years because of COVID and recreation was doing so poorly in the amount of revenue that we're generating we feel like things are starting to turn and that it's time to reinstate that scholarship so yes they will be able to do that they just stopped you I was going to respond on Jeff real quick I tried to make sure that our answers are aligned here but I hope one of the things is we see Jeff generating more revenue and he's asking to bring more dollars back to union reservoirs in some sort of format we're asking this because we want the restroom to be done we're asking for this because we want more staff so at least you should be making that ask and hoping there's some sort of yes we that is a different way of saying but yes we do so hopefully at the end of the piece I was going to turn to the fact that equity is sustainability they're not raising new prices out of the walk-in and biking so if you're able to bike in or walk in we're trying to encourage that you don't get in the car, you don't have to do that and if you do, like Jeff said probably again the most four ways kind of a bunch of people in power you can get in there as cheap as possible so those would be some things I would say kind of help offset that the last piece was on the boat storage it was kind of high people just recognize that's the cheapest price you can pay to store a boat we have boats over there only going water because it's just the cheapest spot you can park anything that kind of brings the parity kind of getting close to you is boat storage I think I think that's similar just that once presented to a council and it's covered in the times call to be clear about her why not just that it's being great and that order just switching the order I wanted to ask what the boat storage is I assume that sells out every year is that right or does it okay so that makes sense I think to me to look at what it raises things are similarly quite more expensive elsewhere and I ask if there's any cap on annual pass sales or there's no cap on that there's no cap on annual pass sales and there was a slight misprick there's a misrepresentation in your handout for the annual daily vehicle I gave you the attendance number not the number of vehicles so 2021 we had 27,000 cars and a 110,000 and a 2022 we had 29,000 cars so Jeff want me to pull up a quick look at so there's Union Reservoir kind of a 26 right here and then this is the boat storage because I wanted to get Jeff the boat storage yeah so as you can see it's kind of spread out all over the place we are working with David's staff to number one identify the boats that have been there forever they never no longer get paid for and how can we dispose of those abandoned boats and then trying to be more efficient on if David has a boat this is his spot have it outlined so that he has a spot but then we can maximize the number of other spaces that we can kind of make available right now it's kind of a hodgepodge we'll put you about wherever we can find a space for it and we feel like we can do a better job with that with increased pricing I think my first concern is creating more pressure on McIntosh is that people already turn around to hear ten dollars which is ridiculous but that's how it goes I don't know if we there's signage out beforehand or whatever or if there's some other the road's too narrow to do pass holders versus not or whatever but so at least the kind of communications plan of saying hey residents this is an awesome way to get to the union reds and sitting in line but it's a nightmare of cars every single weekend and people turning around and then running onto McIntosh is kind of a crazy other piece it's more common but the other one I really don't like not having non-resident rates I think standard we should have non-resident rates they don't pay for it we should have a preferential treatment of residents across the entire thing especially that ten dollar entry why don't we charge people who are out of town more Boulder Reds does it everybody else does it so I think it's so equitable if they're doing it to our residents we're doing it to them so I think it's a 2x difference in pricing I think it would have a little bit easier along those lines I noticed that if you have a small boat your non-resident storage fee goes down in your new and so that's like whoa wait a minute that's not what and then you didn't mention what last year's daily fee was for non-residents only that they're now going to be the same have they always been the same I agree with Scott based on the usage at McIntosh and people coming from Boulder you also mentioned that we compared to Larimer County what about Boulder Reds that might be mentioned in your when you present to City Council I don't know what the numbers are but otherwise that would be my question on City Council that's the closest reservoir and the one that's the most similar those two are huge and we don't really compete in the same sense of park all around a big reservoir that you can ski on and all that kind of thing we don't compete with that we're more of a Boulder Res type competition thing especially with only one access point to use it you can't walk around very far you can only hold so many people so it needs to be prioritized to maximize usage for that anyway to finish my point I agree, oh the parking so I did notice that if you're a non-resident your small boat parking will be down from whatever which sounds a little like that's cool if you're a non-resident and if we're encouraging that you said it's been sold out but there's no reason to how do we compare to the saline flow across the reservoir on the east side yes, for storage we should find that out because are we driving people toward them or away from them by these new fees and maybe we should be thinking about what do we want do we want to be the same they provide a launching service maybe they should be able to charge a little more so the larger boats can't go over there just sail the boats we understand that but you have a lot of sailboats in storage that have been there forever I'm just thinking we should know what that is in order to have a comparison the microsite is actually born of a parent who contacted us he was gifted with a two person paddle board or you know, paddle paddle craft or whatever you had paddle boat in here paddle board or pedal boat pedal boat and we need a place for it to be and I said well you can do a boat storage he goes okay, so the microsite is for those type of situations can do something very small that you can't keep in an apartment you can't keep at your site but there might be an opportunity for this but it's not intended to be for non-resident well then jack it up for non-residents it would be my thought is if you're if this is supposed to be local folks with little boats then charge more for a non-resident I mean it helps the pill be swallowed better to Aaron's point that I think it looks a little nicer for a long month folks if that's who we're aiming for and whether you can lower the long month price you guys can figure out better numbers wise but it seems silly to make it more attractive for out of towners if we're busy I think we have to find a good judicious rider for city line on this view I don't know what you guys are at in terms of hearing some concerns from the board so I don't know in terms of timing but I would also echo the concern about the resident non-resident balance I do think that's important and I also think I also I never use I mean but my first question was oh there must have done some analysis of why they need more funding and you know this is why so I do think that that why even if it is about changing use patterns and increasing opportunities to local residents whatever the why is I think that needs to be clear as part of this in order to to the local community and I don't maybe for another time I get tired of totally understanding so if the city doesn't have any kind of program where the revenues that you raise can be dedicated to that facility it just automatically goes you would have to be in their place we don't want to be that okay which would I add on camera point to discussion about having higher fees for walking for non-residents now you have to have the front guard person check how would that work you do it the same way you do it at Martin Street's trashy recycle right you chill your utility bill utility bill or an ID so now you have a backlog of people that have to have their ID or utility bill at the front guard and there has to be a recognition or check wouldn't that make the line longer and slower I think there's paid enough residents they'll have it what just have a sign up before you get there camera point Jeff just putting it out there because it might slow things down it might actually have unintended consequences yeah just something pretty straightforward a little bit less nuanced on all these questions do these raises serve enough to put you guys in a strong position to start asking for more help from this general fund and all of that or does this turn into a more yearly situation where we need to continue to raise funds just seeing as we haven't done it since 2018 so it does position us better whether the timing of that this is the right one I am a little concerned about and David and I talked a little bit about that but at some point time we will have to raise fees because our costs of doing business are going that's a good point do you expect to do this again next year? is it enough to at least kind of hold off for another 4 or 4 year or something like that or if it wasn't for some reason whether or not we needed to re-evaluate after we reviewed some numbers to see where those sweet spots were to put you guys in the best position for this upriding and might give it a go so just in terms of do you want to read the emphasis at all and bring it back to the board based on these questions or what are you thinking? I think that would be a good idea are there any final comments before Steve and then we come back to the board I just want to remind the board of there is future improvements to the union everything we would like to initiate the master plan improvements which will change everything about what you're seeing here now and we have to put about $16-17 million in order to do that and so the fee structure will likely look a lot different after good or bad I'm not sure what they'll look like we'll have to have a consultant help us with that but the fee structure will look a lot different after we institute that project so this is a short term but this is the budget mentioned in the cultural and library so my other ask is to try to have an estimate of what such a would raise I can't tell if it's $15,000 or $500,000 we just use last year's usage numbers and give a rough calculation of what they increase amounts to that would help I think we might have to do it so union salons number four sunfish, sailfish, lasers are $325,000 so that's more comparable to the existing price right here than the $720 price or something like that because that would meet some standard so that's a big difference it's a lot of those smaller boats you do just wheel out to the out there until the dock was built a lot of those bigger boats there were four of them couldn't actually launch because it was just dry and you ran out of launch space so those guys couldn't get into the water so that's part of why some of those boats sit there without a viable dock or the water being high enough they couldn't actually get into the water are you going on our side? yeah so late summer it still happened but it is here you just wrote ramp space to get the boats in that's for the discussion yeah one last little detail location is that factor into prime versus standard it's a long skinny you know is it a 200 yard drag of your boat or a 20 yard drag I think we're all driving do you see how many people want to be down here? yeah just curious if that's something to think about or put the big spots in one end or the little spots in one end usage I don't know how you do that but just looking at that it's like I want to be over there I would pay to be over there kind of thing okay on fellow potential yep I will take this one this is a little bit of a sequence Daniel talked about the fact that we typically come to this group say hey we have a property on the past you've heard about it and how we can take forward to council to see if they're going to support that this is a property that came up and I do have it's very unique we had closed down the county property by by sandstone ranch and columns there's a half acre parcel that was identified actually by an oil and gas company that wanted to lease that and they wanted the owner of that the owner of that property is Union Reservoir Company so Union Reservoir Company was approached to lease minerals on this little strip here this is sandstone ranch this is the columns open space this is the shareware open space this is the shell open space you see this is a significant open space on the compilation properties and there's a half acre in here that was actually owned by the Union Reservoir Company so council gave us the direction to go ahead and make an offer on that to purchase it from the Union Reservoir Company Union Reservoir Company had no need for anymore at one point back in the 1800s when they purchased this property spring gulf comes down from here along with there was some flooding and some agricultural fields and they were trying to divert water from the farmers field back to the late 1800s so Union Reservoir Company has had this they haven't paid taxes on it it's just kind of sat there so when they found out or we found out that it was sitting there we went ahead and made an offer to the Union Reservoir Company and they did accept that so the dot sequence I'm kind of updating this group we made and Union Reservoir Company has accepted that we're going to go forward with using open space dollars to acquire that piece of property Is that essentially an envelope in an open space? Yes What's the going rate for a half acre? Exactly, we ended up paying we paid I think we paid 35 for the columns properties we basically did that plus a little bit of inflator we did half of 35 so we took it to 18 we finally offered on that half acre down there I was just curious since the city is Union Reservoir Company So this is a piece that I will share with this group it is 8 pieces we own the majority of it but that staff has a fiduciary responsibility to the company and all the members on that board could go back to staff and say vote in favor of something that's not of the best interest of the company so we're sitting there, we actually have a legal obligation to vote in the best interest of the Union Reservoir Company while it's still a private company because that's exactly what it is so that other farmer trying to get water down the ditch if we're not getting dollars brought in to help him improve the ditch or improve the reservoir, improve the head gates there could be a question of why city staff would not operate in the best interest of the Union Reservoir Company and say, this is a fair deal and we think with a straight face as city staff make an offer to the Reservoir Company that on the other side of the table said yes, that's a fair offer that we think is comparable and we began to look at Collins it it was 35, it's been a few years since we did that up to by $3,000 I think that we all felt comfortable on both sides of it we turned our hat, we felt we were doing the best interest of it Well, the other groups of city people like us would be it was good the way it was So I think a piece of this is the fact that it was but I think as residents of the community I think we've made it pretty clear to our Townsend Council members that we do not want oil and gas operations involved in our city OICs, so the Union Reservoir Company could have had OICs to the oil and gas companies to put it back into Council Now Council can direct their staff on how to manage that Okay, thank you I didn't see that last As a Reservoir member, we're really having more operating that are producing capacity Council really doesn't have the ability to direct that board how to do things but as it's owned as open space they have absolutely enough staff how they'd like to see that So do we own the minerals underneath that? Yes Any questions? There's space above it Those are weird things but sometimes they're owned having to help and those all get changed Yes Is this a fee ownership parcel? Is this like an easement of some time? This will be a fee ownership when we do OICs because when we're purchasing the minerals there's no water associated with this so we should purchase a service And is currently somebody from the larger columns open space? Yeah, we're going to go back to what Connie It doesn't show up We have to go back We didn't do a whole lot of title work on this We were anxious to because another piece of drug there is sense of urgency If the Reservoir company has staff on that drug or fee and said we'd like to kind of wait to see what happens they could force pool that so we would not have a say in that once it was forced pooled So the big thing was to get this done get it under city control allow us some time to look at how we do that work with world county to do that but we didn't do title work because we're surrounded by ourselves So if we had another property on around us and they maybe could have claimed that those lines are off we probably would have done a bit more work up front but right now we probably wouldn't go in and work with world county to figure out where that sits and how we get that but as you can see it's surrounded by sandstorm right on the county's property so we're really surrounded by ourselves Do you need action for this? You know maybe again since we're already down the path it might just be nice for the record to see if there's any if there's support for this continued acquisition of the property council again this board is going to ask what their role really is This is an advisory group and the council can still do what they intended to do on that but it might be nice for this board to say if they would support the expenditure both space dollars to purchase this half acre I support the expenditure of Malphite very much money to purchase that and protect it Do you want to make a motion? I move that you do what you did and that we say but I don't know how that goes but I knew that we approve the purchase of that parcel recommend that council we recommend that council I move that we recommend that council approve the parcel in the Longfellow Deed area I'll second that All in favor? Seeing no opposition Thank you So can we go do Dan, C.D. and me now? He's excited to say We're going to go back to being my family's family I'll be real fast I have no update Do you know what you want me to update? We are supposed to have our next meeting within the next two weeks but the February meeting I should be able to report back Okay So the remaining items are all sort of business about how we when we meet where we meet do you want to propose a package that we can just approve of doing things the same way we've been doing that? That you can say just like that that makes it very interesting to say this in one line Keep it the same I understand if no one else wants to do this but Monday nights are not great I would love to move it but it's worth it because I love you guys but I would move it to Tuesday nights if I had my brothers there's probably some sort of Oh that's right I forgot We would miss two of them It's not Tuesday nights I can drop in and drop out But we only meet one Tuesday and you don't meet all those Tuesdays Every Tuesday Oh my God Yeah, unless it's Christmas or something Yeah, okay let's do two Tuesdays One, two, three, four I'm just like I think it would be hard to change the date It's been the same date for a while I know, I understand but since it was actually I used to think on it I thought I would waste my time on it Yeah, I believe it I would propose that we continue the same meeting day and time which was Monday at 6.30 and that we continue to meet at this location and that we continue to post the where they are currently being posted Does anyone have any concerns of that? Then I'll say I move that we continue both the meeting day and time meeting location and agenda in these five seconds I was in favor of him I was We did We used to start Okay, well good then I could actually like be honest and just apologize for all being active We voted in favor Anyone opposed? Thank you Okay Okay, so the remaining I am under a new business is the crowd agenda calendar so hopefully you have a chance to look through that from the packet This is similar to topics and kind of the mix of topics we've had in the past continuing to keep the if you recall the sort of new rec center and therefore the potential ballot initiative that would create a new rec center has been a priority issue for us and so that continues to be on here as a regular recurring item You'll also see the master planning which is the parts of recreation master plan update process which is impending So that would obviously will be an important item for us as well there's kind of the regular review of potential capital improvement projects as well as hopefully planning a field trip maybe we'll revisit the idea of a retreat or a recession this year we didn't have it during that last year but I still want to stick around So are there any topics you would not like to see on here or anything you feel is insane I'm still just trying to figure out what sometimes what we do and so I want to there's a couple things that I'm interested in us looking at and I want to know if I can just put them on the agenda or if I need to put them on this one of them is attracting and retaining BIPOC people to the board and if we can schedule a discussion on that and another one is how this community park nature area and neighborhood park is how it got there and what we can do to change it if we can do it right so when I asked about can we have a nature area there like nope that's a natural that's got to be a natural area can we have a play area in this nature area nope that's got to be a neighborhood park I am enthusiastic about us changing our definitions of our parks to reflect older definitions of our parks is that part of the master plan yeah but I was just going to say is that the park so the only master plan that's active right now is the recreation area parks, trails, and open space master plan updated on board for several years I'd encourage you to read the existing park recreation and sales master plan in 2013 with an update from one that was from 2003 or four that identifies the different park types that we have based our park system around I would also say and we'd have to I guess we don't have to talk about this as staff but I'm not sure I don't think the board is the decision maker on what our park system looks like I think you can provide advice to staff in place of council and council would be directed to make this change yeah I'm aware that we don't have very much power but we can and then I would just also say I gave a presentation for a rotary at Dr. Waters request invitation I was a volunteer I was a volunteer by him that's between you two just last week to rotary and it really talked about our park system and I'd be happy to share that with the board it's an easy share and it just talks about what our different park types are for it also helped the rotary and the public understand our system and what that's about and I can't even give that presentation here if you want to do that how would you like to do that I'm happy to have that conversation just those are my initial thoughts on what you're saying and then and then how we can maybe stretch and expand those definitions because I look at how our board sometimes I'll vote on things I'm like I think this is probably a good idea yeah and then that gets recommended to council and council says oh I thought that was a good idea yeah sure but then maybe somebody with some thought that expertise comes along six years later and says you know what maybe this could be better I'd like to figure out how I can help this be better because I'm the person with expertise that's coming along six years later but things that we can do better than what we're doing even though we're doing great what we can do better I will just say now is a good time to talk about agenda topics but also if any members have agenda topics that you would like us to consider building into an agenda just let me or David and Jeff know because we meet monthly in advance to kind of plan out the next agenda so you two know her point they plan the agenda for each month so if you have something let Paige know and it shows up that's over there any other so I've noted Karen's and I think we can work those in based on the other topics too I assume you talk to Jeff Ben whatever but I'm surprised that recreation program in aquatics isn't till June isn't that a summer kind of thing I would have thought we'd talk about that earlier we moved it it's more of an information it's not really looking for any direction a lot of the conversations you will have are more on the part side and I'm trying to put a little bit more recreation into what you all covered I understand that but if you were looking for guidance that's way late in the deal summertime is prime time it's not over do you think that we should talk about how to integrate more sort of the specifics of recreation programs that didn't even occur to me until I saw that oh we don't talk about that last time I think it would complement what we're talking about with the tax so that means we all should be listening to folks who would like to make requests and that would be a way to filter them in maybe have some time to concentrate on is how to get solicit feedback from diverse audiences and send maybe a session on brainstorming session on this with us on how we can get that because the suggestion box gets full of the same people do you have anyone? I'm going to say that it's about engagement with various communities is that a comment? I don't know about that but with the new structure of the comms teams that they can communication teams can help us with that as well which that ties into your other suggestion of how to get a more diverse group of people on the board kind of can tie together the conversation can we do business cards contact me because I know if I'm functioning as part of the city I don't know but what I want to say is when I hear someone talk about this or even they're using the trails I use I want to give them something that says here this is where you go you have a suggestion, you have an idea you have input, you're valuable you're using this I want to have an invitation to and with direct so they can do it you can throw it away but I can give you David's I was going to say my business card is sitting there this city website does have, you can drag them there it's not perfect for everybody but it does have a way to provide feedback which filters the way down the staff saying to a 12 year old who's using the skate park look it up on the website and contact where you can find and give your feedback on the janky thing over here on the skate park I want them to be able to hand them to the 12 year old and say contact me I know but that's where 12 year olds can do it so I just would like to figure out and so that would be in that conversation is how we can directly just saying it's there isn't an invitation to people who have been othered and maybe we could create business cards that direct people give lengths and that way the walking way was something that I can't remember what Aaron said but oh yeah I have the card I've actually thought about wearing a t-shirt while I'm running I'm part of the parks board I'm just wearing it I want to make sure I had your call Jeff but just wearing it like twice a month because it's how many years we're going to see the shirts I wanted to clarify so for March there is the potential boarder tree that is different than the field trip right and that is just a topic for us to talk about whether me, those of you who've been on the board before might have called in some kind of like work session you know where we might be able to come together and have some of these conversations in like a formal setting schedules are hard I know so that may not happen but that particular thing would just be for us to talk about do we want to do this do we want to plan something that would make sense my call really is in the past we've done the field trip we've been taking a place of this meeting so if you do that then one of these either July or August we're going to review it would those agenda items have to get moved over months and I will note that I do have on my calendar in a few months to ask about doing a field trip for our field trip because we discussed it at our last field trip so I was putting it out there that was down the mighty same rain right even better than the ski trip just better ask soon because the floater will look when we're made of like June okay well let me know I'm putting my interest out there so let me know if that's something there's some abandoned boats that you need to mess with okay so I do actually have to leave early so if we we can gender in the meeting early adjourn early or I can hand it over to Nick to finish that we're bringing items other stuff items I have many more things to discuss you or I can go okay so I'm happy to hand it over to Nick it's anything formal check the bylaws yeah alright you're to partially noted in the minutes alright thanks everyone thank you so the next yeah yeah actually that I'm not going to open up anyway it's really just discussing items from the packet updates right so it's going to be opening the floor to the group does anybody have any items um yeah a question for Steve the city wait time is a little ominous can we get things back from the contractor and say there would be an update in December yeah um we met with our consultant right before the holidays and she turned over what's she feels is the final package I was still waiting for a couple of odds and ends from her cost estimates things like that I'd like to get the cost estimates for what I want what we're going to have to do with this is um take what she has completed and either hire someone else or work in-house turn that into a true sign package that we can utilize separate from because this was if you understand this was citywide wayfinding citywide parks and trails and also ldda had a lot of money in that and they designed all the signs for downtown to update all their signs so there was a much larger scale project that we were a part of what we got doesn't quite finish the work so we need to flesh that out into something that our staff can be using and other people who do projects with the Montreal system are using when that will happen for a second quarter we're still working as far as implementing any sort of project for wayfinding throughout the city and things we'll likely talk about that when we do CIP this year we had some money before they paid for this work but we don't have a plan in place right now there were some efforts to do a park inventory or park sign inventory which we got some work done by some foreign health students as interns and I don't think they finished they had some scheduling issues and we had some issues with this and I think Jim Cooke was looking at Richie up there for the spring semester 2023 to see if there were some students that want to do that for us so that's the first step is finding out what we have we've made several attempts at doing that but just haven't worked out stuff in the last several years we've got just a hookup piece on that as Steve mentioned the plan is going to take a while to do that in place but we've had a lot of signs waiting on the boat while this was out there so we're just going to take what we have and make it work at this point so some of those signs are just fading to the point where you can't read them where Steve has had a project waiting or engineers who are going to take what we have and start fabricating some of those sooner than later any other items in the packet? Dan yeah I noticed you had a button rock update next month we get the real update I've pulled since our last meeting seven different folks who all own dogs and say they will be up in arms if you ban dogs from button rock so you need to make a careful presentation otherwise I'm sure based on their porciferous reply to me they'll be at city council meeting yelling it down to pass that so you better get all the data whatever they're all complaining about aren't there cows over there I mean there's a lot of if poop is the issue that we all have to scoop and stuff so I'm just letting you know we talked a month or two months ago and they're not the folks I talked to are not happy about that idea they're not happy about leash law on the sleepy lion trail but they do it so that's going to come up I think and I think you told me conga several folks I was going to say I held my tongue anyway that's going to come up so just FYI should I keep going I noticed there were two things in this packet that I didn't know what the heck they were animal park open space I saw a block of open space but they're not on the city website so in the minutes there are things referenced that there's no way for us to understand what they are I'm going to do it the same way I mean we have a nice web page so these are things that need to be updated so we've had a pretty huge reorganization in the city for the past six months and we are still trying to figure out things like who updates the website I actually have hired a new and they're looking about improving our website which I think is better than the last one so I don't know what needs to be improved but there are some concerns with the website updating maps is a big thing we revamped our entire GIS department in the past three or four months and hired two new leaders of that GIS department so you'll see some lulls improvements coming in 2023 this is just our minutes it's not like the public knows but this is an FYI once this is out there you've got to have that update so folks can find it so we Daniela has had a meeting with our GIS folks on our process when we acquire a new property how it gets put into our mapping system the map I just brought up is an amazing system but I don't know that that is public basis it's designed to be public based in but it it's not complete right now but that's part of what we want to be doing with it that's the purpose of it you were able to list the parks it's tough I understand it's hard to companies can't do their own pages Steve talked about the presentation I had to go with a hand drawn map they're not buying GIS maps it's one of the holidays yeah okay thanks I don't know Antelope Park is up at Button Rock Preserve it's actually just a Boulder County and I was working on a project Antelope Park is laid on Oh so is this like the Antelope Trailhead it comes off of Apple Valley Road the easy way to go up and then you have to go up to Hall Ranch to Button Rock Preserve humans can actually ride up as opposed to super humans if any of you are mountain bikers you'll understand that reference okay the next one is on Montgomery Farm we're working on extended the lease to Montgomery Farm that's under ecosystem management open space isn't that one of the possibility places for a future rec center it is so if we do a five year update is that a problem for a rec center should it pass, should we decide to put it there so there's a couple pieces I don't think one in a five year is going to we have a lot of work to do on that piece of property does everyone know where that one's at that's at 66 it's kind of like fly out future parks no future parks County Road with that's right here funny pattern so this was actually county open space and the city had a property called the tights property somewhere up in this area it was going to be a community park the tenant that is farming this also farms up in that area there's a lot of agriculture up in this area and trying to keep agriculture up here community park across 66 so the county decided to swap those properties so this is not government property it is now slated as keeping open space on the bottom portion of it that was the county that swapped it in this upper portion I can't remember how many of this 40 and 80 or what that split is it's decided to be a community park even if it would go into some bond issue or something that five years probably is not going to keep him from harvesting corn in the next five years the tenant that's up there is David Asbury who owns a full circle farms he's the largest organic farmer in the front range great person who farms a lot of this area around here he knows that's what it is he's willing to farm it until we it's not guaranteed that we're going to make a park or go to the restaurant it just was like wait a minute I've heard this name if in three years we have to say you have to go Dave recognizes that and he will go so you thought about it as the bottom line or at least it's that language so we have lots of ways can I ask you about that actual parcel there's a a road on that parcel that was opened for use as a dirt road it goes across it as a utility easement and it goes out to a ditch gate out there so it really is only accessible by city staff it needs to be it is unsigned we heard that dry creek was the one he basically specified right again this could be something that comes up I think Steve and others probably think it's not the priority to Jeff as far as we look to this but it could happen and Dave Asbury the tenant out there is aware of that I prefer dry creek also but I just the government farm has been on our minds in the conversation it's in my recollection that fell off the list there was kind of a consideration for something in this coming potential okay great then that solves that problem I was a little unsure all of a sudden dry creek just didn't work because of hydrology or something else this could be the spot so we kind of have it there as a little or that we aren't going to forget about it but we definitely had that conversation with Dave Asbury one last one was how did the rec center open house go on Saturday it went really well over 300 people showed up very positive feedback and we're hoping that we'll see more of those folks come back again so you think these are all potential new visitors I wouldn't say all of them but I would say a good percentage of them and we hadn't done an open house in years and to see the excitement and the number of people was really good so we'll probably do it at least once a year moving forward. How about six months from now when we're trying to sell this new bond issue this would be a time to get info out we've discussed how do we approach folks and this is another way to go anyway free or low cost as long as at some point time we can't say you got to vote for someone but the bunch of us can show up there and do that and it's an easy hit yes okay alright great any other items from the packet bring it there's a note about the St. Rain Greenway phase 13 being 60% done with design drawings if you want to it's not done 60% yeah we're not at 60% we're working toward 60% we're hoping to get that to our sponsor CDOT and the merch was wondering when we might see anything around that once we meet with CDOT and have those conversations and that's approved that's when we come out and you mind Daniel you want to just so you know once a master plan is accepted by the board that's the last interaction we have with the board in that project the master plan was approved by the board decades ago and so it wasn't something we brought back to the board you didn't miss anything Daniel's had some challenges and so she probably wants to do an update at some point as far as the challenges you've encountered and how you're trying to solve those challenges but as far as I just wanted to let you know because I assume the master plan was basically we should have something here quite a lot more deep self now in design so we will just be seeing that when it gets released on the website if you don't bring it back here what is that going to provide to the public I guess because the public process a little bit but again these will get because there's been such a gap in time on the behalf of the board a lot of new residents of myself are very interested in things that we'll plan maybe 15 years ago whatever that was and there's no information on what that looks like unless you go find a master plan to read about that there are a lot of master plans on our website I'm not sure what it's all about yeah I'll have some thank you cool all right any last call on packet updates yeah summer removal I'm seeing the horticulture maintenance and the park and forestry thing I just want to say I really liked it on Saturday when there wasn't snow removal between Cannamodo park and sandstone ranch that enabled people to recreate on the snow on the trail that worked well great great like I like I like try to get out there for a run before that because it just becomes slick for a while and then also because I like to see the snow I like the snow and that's what I know and there's no actual there's no dirt trails accessible from you know inner city right so that way that snowy trail is really kind of nice otherwise I'd have to drive to Pristina you shouldn't think about going on a lobo trail it turns into soft surface that over hurts soft surface yeah I have to drive to get there because I have to I have to drive to do that part to get to lobo trail to start my run and I just like running from my house and I like I enjoyed the nose that not allowed and they could wait to plow it just a little bit later until after I get out because I know because I track everybody who's out there there's nobody riding their bike from sandstone ranch into work on snowy days I know that there was one guy last year so I really like it later thank you you can talk to me whatever they want for us so our policy just so everyone knows that's probably one of the things that it really is are required snow our school roads are the primary thing that's what I wanted to do downtown Elvin VA shops and stores have access to the public that's clear and accessible and it's going to be our school roads and it's going to be our commuter roads after that and then trying to get to more of those other areas that we try to get to you have a constant snow going sometimes you never get to those other areas but that's kind of our priorities and like it is because sometimes I notice that the school area isn't done but the route to sandstone ranch is done and the route is all the way done and then you're like okay well the school needed to do first and then I do notice the park behind behind Sunset Middle School is that on the miller Appelter Appelter that one like that drainage in that road is bad and there are four there are four schools that kids come that back way through holly there are hundreds of kids that don't walk the safe route to school because it's not the way you would go if you were a kid and it's really like those sidewalks could be plowed way wide because none of those kids have snow boots none of them all because they're middle schoolers and middle schoolers don't have snow boots and their feet are going too fast even I'll tell you my the staff that goes out and does the trails they're always trying to feed you out there because it makes it so much harder for them to clear snow when it gets tracked down so how else are you using they just made a request to come in and start even earlier so they're ahead of that because it's turning to ice and then we get complaints I know because I'm the same way I want to get up at floor and shovel my walk before the first sidewalk I would say it's been great to have the Greenway be so well plowed this year especially because sidewalks throughout the city are so bad for now going a month from having the Greenway be totally open it's funny because I just got two complaints today from the Greenway saying for Greenway not being plowed well enough they should walk on any shady streets they're both when she went on a run today she got complaints that they're on pass on alright we were up the last four minutes we have to extend potentially the last two items just go fast items from staff I don't have anything alright item I can hold off to it I was going to say the things out there I like to throw out this grouping and think about that maybe for next meeting is the field trips I feel like Open Space does dominate because it's kind of those cool properties but I think now with a little bit more information on the Clover Basin there's opportunity to maybe have a meeting or a lunch or something to meet up there or kick something off and also the Adam Derry has some really cool spots on it down along the creek so there's I just want to make sure I put an off brother to this group to somehow be incorporate some of these new spots we have out there for maybe a field trip I never knew the Clover Basin was effectively owned by the city and 9.9% I thought it was some private corporation it still is a private until we get that last 1% gone we still have that and there's other strategies around that too but yes I actually didn't want to add just for the two new members just so you know I have been here for 25 years here next week and I'm happy you guys have only been here for two three four years and so if you have any questions you want to get a coffee or whatever and sit down and talk you can hear even I'm happy to do that answer any questions you have I don't drink coffee I do drink beer alright cheers okay items from the board I have one at Pratt Park there's a porta potty which is new to me I've never seen one there before is that the park thing is that a construction thing there is a porta potty it wasn't there a month ago and it's set up I know there's one there's four courts there but they're all covered there's snow I'm just curious is there Timber makes assessments and decides what a porta potty is for the winter because the rest rooms shut down every year they may have gotten complaints last year or it could be because the pickle ball courts are now there he chose to put one at the back there's no pickle ball there he has a system in his mind he's not here okay great that's fine with me there is one at Willa Farm because of the pickle ball gotcha and the LTA is funding to keep the one at Quail they used to quit after October November but now people are said now we're just going to do the whole time or something so I was just curious thank you that's it any other items I have one at Union Reservoir there's such an offense at 15-20 heat that is down I didn't know if there was a request in for that already I was trying to bring an update on it it is it's a long 10 November of 26 and the fence further now near the dog swim park the section of fence gets wiped out every does it get wiped out every year it's going on that water they wipe right into it I'm betting on renders now but yeah I'll double check okay great it's a pretty big hole yeah so it happens on that side okay cool any other last item for okay I hope we adjourn alright second okay okay great welcome you