 So when I started the business, the Jordan business, it was a $160 million business between footwear and apparel. I, through the heyday, got it to 1.1 billion, just footwear alone. We're on another legendary episode today. We've had some great people on, but I think you're definitely at one of the top of the list and I appreciate you pulling up. But I like to let everybody introduce themselves how they want to be introduced because I know sometimes people get the titles and they get the stuff and people do all the things and I'm like, no, no, I want to tell this part of me today. So I'll let you tell them about yourself and who you are. All right. For those of the folks out there that don't know me, I'm Gentry Humphrey, pretty much known for starting the Jordan brand. Actually, prior to being even a Jordan brand, I was responsible for a lot of Nike basketball back in the late 80s, early 90s. And that's pretty much what I'm known for. But to be quite honestly, while I had a stellar career with Jordan and Nike, the things that I'm working on these days, I think we'll have a huge impact on the next level of creatives that are out there. And really that's what my new journey is all about. We're at the beginning of a new chapter and I'm seeing it unfold. And as I've gone back and seen things like different interviews and different stuff that you've done, mind you, we'll talk about like, we've met before, but because I live here, you know, so we just ran, we crossed paths before, but it's dope to see people entering new chapters in life and coming on new struggles and different things that's gonna come, but you know, because you have so much experience in your past and you're gonna be able to like strive through that. And you're probably excited about that, I'm assuming. Oh yeah, yeah. So I'm looking forward to hearing that, but we always gotta start from the beginning. So take me back to young you, you know, grade school times, like what was sneakers like? Paint that picture for me for that era because you know, I was born in 91, so I heard it, but you know, I wanna hear your side at the same time. Oh wow, so it's deep. So I mean, I can go as far back as probably a seven year old kid. Always loved sports. And you couldn't tell me that probably by the time I got to probably about 12, 13 years old that I wasn't gonna be a professional basketball player, even though football was my first love. I'm like football in college, yeah. Did you? Oh, nice. So yeah, football was my first love growing up as a really small kid. And you know, back in the day, we didn't have the digital world that we live in now. So we would get brochures that were from local sporting goods stores. And I would look at certain shoes and I'd just like marvel at certain shoes. And at that time, you know, at seven years old, I would sit there and just like, I gotta have these. But the crazy thing is, is I was already thinking about customizing mine, because you know, back then they came back in white, black, white name, nothing special. And I was like, as soon as I get mine, I'm painting them or I'm switching shoes with one of my boys. I'll wear one color on the right foot, take his. If you wear the same size, wear it on the left foot. I was doing all that crazy stuff, even at that young age. And so it was just kind of who I, part of who I was, not in mind being kind of different. So yeah. That's crazy. It reminds me of like my coming up in the 90s, like watching football and seeing like the East Bay magazines. Yep, yep. And having like, at that time, they hadn't even introduced like interchangeable swiss yet. That's right, that's right. No color. So we were just taking black Sharpies and like murdering out the shoe and like doing the different like team colors with the red or whatever. So I like how that, we still got that somewhat connection. Oh yeah. But you know what? If you love this world and this culture and you have a little bit of creativity to you, you're gonna draw the same type of people around you. It's just kind of weird. You're birds with a feather flock together. Right, right, for sure. So you coming up, did you play football too? Or is it just? I played football up until high school. And then I shifted, actually I shifted everything to basketball probably when probably junior high school. Like that was my game. I mean, you heard me coming before you saw me coming because I was dribbling basketball all over campus. Oh, okay. You hear that? They're not coming around the corner, right? So yeah, so basketball became my love probably when I got to like the junior high school level. And at this time, did you have your nickname yet or was it a different nickname? Well, so yeah, even the nickname that I had as a kid, I'm a kindergarten, I remember it. They called me Gogo Gentry was my name. Okay, okay. So Gogo, I was always moving, never stopping. So it was Gogo. And then that quickly faded out. I didn't really get a true nickname from that point on. Probably until I hit high school, freshman year of high school. Okay. It was actually, the first one was Dr. G. Okay. Mainly because Dr. J. Dr. J, he makes sense. And I was dribbling a red, white, blue basketball. So, and I always liked kind of the rubber ball because it had so much more bounce. So your handles had to be a little more on point with those rubber balls that bounce really high. So it was nicknamed Dr. G. And then probably by my junior year, people started calling me G-Money. Okay. And then actually that stuck later on when I started working with the Jordan brand. And so G-Money kind of became... Okay. That's funny. My original email on Yahoo was Dr. D. Cause DJ... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like thinking about that too. I was like, yeah, I remember back in the day everybody used to call me J-Money. Hey. So, okay. So besides that part, like family, lifestyle at home, like how is everything like that? And what type of environment were you growing up in? So I grew up in suburbs. My father was, he was an Air Force at the time. Okay. And so we traveled a little bit. I primarily grew up in Southern California. Okay. We traveled to the East Coast. So I lived in New Jersey for a few years. Came back to Southern California, which has just really been home. And it was pretty much a suburban type household at that point early on. You know, it was so funny. I don't, I look back and there's probably some times where I might've been in the hood, but I didn't know I was in the hood. Right. You're a vibrant. Right, right, right. And I go back now and it's definitely the hood. But yeah, so I grew up in a pretty diverse community. And so I had an opportunity to understand how to work with people, how to navigate life. You know, whether it's, you know, being the one and only black kid in the classroom or whatever. So learned at an early stage, like how to navigate through a lot of things that I... I don't know, it's hard to explain the feeling of it, at least for me, because I wasn't that kind of similar. I grew up in the hood area of Portland, but I went to school in an immersion program where I was learning Japanese half day. So it was two completely different worlds in the same day. So I don't know how to, I guess, ask about how it felt when the way other people treated you while you were at school, I guess, if anything. Because I always felt like I was like, I never fit in when I was in school. Yeah, you know, it's so funny. I really had to thank my parents for just instilling a sense of pride in who I was, sharing with me about my culture, my grandparents did the same thing. And for whatever reason, maybe it's just kind of part of my makeup. Like I always had no problems caring myself for the sense of confidence. Right. And I never had a problem being different. And my dad always preached the importance of being a leader and not a follower. And so it was weird. For me, I just, I mean, I fit in. And even when I was in an environment that may not have been conducive to a minority, like I was the student body president or, you know. So, and I played sports. And so I just figured out how to fit in. And it didn't bother me when, you know, people had, you know, angst against me. So it was, I don't know. I don't know, I guess I was just one of those kids that was fortunate enough to just be able to figure out how to navigate through it. Got you, got you. Okay. So this is now, you're coming into high school. You're like, I'm in the kicks. Are you, did you get a job yet? Or are you like just worried about school, like going to college? What's the, like the mindset, you know, like, I'm gonna be a senior. I'm gonna be an adult one day. Yeah, yeah. Well, surprisingly enough, well, so coming up through high school, I was always, you know, I always, again, dressed different, you know, like there's days I go, I wanted to be GQ. So I literally go there and suit everybody else's. Okay, okay. Oh, you're the one and only guy. I'll wear a suit. And then the very next day you'll see me in, you know, denim with sweater tied around my neck, looking preppy or the next day you got me looking like jeans and a, you know, and the tee and the leather jacket. Like I was just always different. Okay. So, and so I'll tell you a crazy story. So, and I guess again, it started off as a really young kid. My mom used to tell me that when I was, even at kindergarten, each night before I went to school, I would lay out three outfits the night before. Okay. So one outfit had to be like GQ. So, and everything cooked up from head to toe. The other outfit was whatever sport I was going to play. And then third outfit for whatever reason, I was into cowboys. So I had a cowboy outfit. I think cause my grandparents were from Oklahoma. So maybe that was, and maybe we used to buy me boots every year. I had to have a new pair of boots. So, but as a kindergarten, I would lay out outfits that I was going to wear the next day. And then when I came back, I wanted to be football guy and guess what I have my football outfit. So again, so it was just kind of part of who I was from day one. So when I got to high school, it was important to make sure my kicks worked with my outfits. And so, I didn't have a ton cause I was like, I had a lot of dress shoes and I had cow. So I had what I needed. It wasn't really till I graduate. Actually my senior year probably is when it really started to like go deep. What were the kicks of choice at that time? So it was like, really you could rock Dr. J's in Converse. Nike really didn't come out till 72. I graduated in high school in 82. Okay. So there was, they had some Bruins that were out there and things of that nature, but I was probably wearing more of these shell toes. Again, I'd paint those. And I'd wear a Bruin from time to time in Converse. I was kind of like whatever my vibe was with my outfit. You know, that's how it works. So you get there and now you're ready to go to college. And you're like sports is out of it now at this point. Well, so again, so I didn't get any major division one offers. I had some division two offers. And I was like, well, I can get to the league on division two. So I decided to go to junior college, get my G's out of the way. And as I started to go, I said, well, I need to like, I was always like in the like, I gotta make money cause I had a fly car. I feel that. I feel that. I was fortunate of my parents said, you know, if you do all the right things in school, make good grades, you know, show your leadership skills, we'll get you a car. So I had a nice car. Okay. And I like had to have my car always laid out some magazines and stuff like that. So I was like, okay, well, I gotta do this on my own. They made me be responsible to pay for insurance and stuff. So I was like, let me get a little do some work on the side. So I worked, went to school, played ball that first year. Long story, my, how I ended up just kind of leaving the program just because we were, we were running through a, picked a school that had a fast pace offense. So drop a dime, shoot the three, whatever. Coach that summer goes and gets a huge dude inside. And we go from running gun to like, throw everything in the paint, 45, yeah. And I'm like, this is not for me. So I saw I was working and I started working at Nordstrom. I was the stock guy. And I just loved kind of shoes. I went to like what my second passion was. And so I said, you know, if I got to work, I'm going to do something that I enjoy. And so I worked at for Nordstrom in the shoe department. That was your first job? My first job. Actually, my first job actually was, I worked at a place called, way back in the day, it was called Wild Wild West. Okay, okay. It was kind of like a Miller's Outpost type thing, begging back in the day. So I did that during the summer. And then I moved over to Nordstrom. And, you know, I was just, you know, my parents brought me up in a way that they just said, be the best you can be and things will take care of themselves. So like when you went to the stock room, you knew what my section was. It looked like wallpaper. It was like pristine. And so again, part of that was because, I guess that was kind of instilled in me, but also because I had that love for sneakers, you know, and shoes in general. And so everything had to be like just right for me. I feel that, I feel that. So yeah, so that allowed me to kind of like really start to express myself in the shoe world and advance through the company and change the makeup of the store as a buyer. Oh, they're a bunch of crazy things. So at that time, you know, how, cause there's a lot of people that's working a job right now that's like, they're trying to be extraordinary and they're trying to do those things. But people was like, bro, why are you working so hard? Like this is somebody else's business. You know, like there's a lot of people that's like that too. So did you kind of get that? Like as you were coming up, did you like, yeah, there are people that definitely say that. But again, for me and this I carry throughout my entire career, you know, 32 years at Nike and Jordan, it proved for me to be successful. So my mentality of just being the best I could be allowed people to see things in me. So like, think about it. If you're doing something that you love and you're working really hard at it. First off, if it's something that you love work doesn't feel like work. Right. Yeah. You know, so, so, so then the second thing is, is if you're dedicating the time and the hours cause you like what you do, the perception is, this dude is killing it. He's here at six in the morning and he's out at six, seven in the evening. Like, and so the perception is, is this guy is doing his thing. And then when you have success that's attached to that people then look at it as like, wow, this dude is really killing it for us. And you know, I think throughout my career I had probably when it's all said and done I might have had 17 jobs within the organization and didn't apply. So for one time, the very first. You saying that like Nike? Yeah. Oh yeah. I already understand the whole Nike thing. Cause I'll talk to so many homies and they're like, oh yeah, I'm doing. I'm like, bro, I just seen you six months ago and you already got a new position. Like, I get that. I understand that part as every two years you can't be doing the same thing. But the difference is, is if you're moving laterally that's one thing. But if you're able to move up the ladder that's a whole another thing. And so for me, like my results allowed me to kind of move upward. And like I said, that perception that people are it's like, man, this dude is just killing well. Yeah, I might have been killed but it was really more for the love of what I was doing. So at that time, you know, you're at Nordstrom you don't really know that all this stuff is about to unfold later in life. You're just like, I'm loving it. And, you know, good things will come. Keep doing my job. Like I always say, in due time, like in due time, something's gonna come. I don't know what it's gonna be, but I'm gonna just keep working. Cause I know I can control that thing. So you don't really know what's coming next. But in that time mindset, like what was your like, you know, what am I going to be doing 10 years from now type thing? Yeah. So, you know, when I first started, you know, at Nordstrom, I would, you know, I always had kind of artistic skills, you know, so, but I was like, I don't want to be an architect, you know, like, cause back then that's all you would think of is like, okay, you mean architect. So my father was an attorney and he, he, you know, retired from the military became an attorney and I was really into law, you know, and I wanted to be a criminal attorney. Okay. And so, so I was like, well, what I'll do is I'll just, you know, I'll go to law school, you know, pay bills and stuff while I'm still working here. And worst case scenario, if I ended up going to law school and become a corporate attorney for someone like Nike, then okay, cool, that could be one avenue. Okay. So I started working at Nordstrom and I developed what I call a personal book. And my personal book just, you know, whenever I had just about every customer I had, I wrote their name down, note the sizes down and just would call them when stuff that I thought they would like would come in had such great rapport with several customers that ended up being life friends and mentors. And they really kind of just allowed me to network, you know, I was networking and didn't really know. Right, right, right, it's huge. Yeah. And it really changed my life in so many ways. And so while I was working there, again, just killing it, doing well. I became the number one salesperson in the store, then in the footwear division for the company. And they saw kind of me just continue to elevate and they offered me a position to be a buyer for the store. Okay. When I did that, yeah, when I did that, that's when everything changed because I went back to my roots. I was in a store that in a city where folks love sneakers. And so I changed the makeup of the inventory that we had in the footwear department when I became a buyer, introduced kind of the athletic division to Nordstrom because I had such a good business. So is this for like that specific store, for the region, for the nation, for what? So it started off for that particular store because back then each store bought individually. So these people, all the other stores started seeing that I was killing them because I had a whole different, yeah, they were like, what's going on? And then I was so fortunate to have a guy named Bill Smith who was just a great mentor for me when I was young there. And he's like, you know what? We're gonna start a new athletic division for the company because you're killing and now everybody else wants to do it. So we did that and started to change the mix. And then obviously at the time Nike was really big. So they were like, hey, red rover, red rover, let's bring you right over. Right, right, right. And so that's how that was. That's so wild because like how it just, I don't know if it's a full circle thing or whatever but I just think about like going me to get the countdown packs at Nordstrom and it was low key. Nobody knew about it. I'm like, they got a Jordan account. Like it's super low key and it used to be the spot. And I used to go get like all the hot drops there. And it's like, that was all still tied to your like, doing it before you got there and then being a part of that stuff, like crazy how that stuff works. So you get the call and they're like, what's up? You coming to Nike or what? Yeah, it was a very easy decision again because I was that guy that just loved this world. Yeah, I was like, okay. And I was, I had taken the LSAT and I said, that's when I said, you know what? Worst case scenario. And I knew I didn't want to be in retail all my life. Okay. I just, the hours, especially during the holidays, I know thinking about when I got older and having a family, I couldn't do retail. So for me, I ended up, it was an easy, you know, easy move. And so I went to, when they offered me to go to move over, I was like, hey, I'm in. Okay. And so it was pretty easy. You're living in California, working there close to home, same area. Okay. And then you get the call and they're like, you got to move there immediately when it happened. Well, so luckily I got a chance for a little bit to stay within the Southern California area. But I was really responsible for a lot of things that happened in the sales division. Okay. But I was really more in tune with the product creation guys because, again, because I was the basketball dude, the product creation guys would come down to Southern California and they'd be like, okay, where do I go? You know, and I'm like, I got you. I'll take them to all the hot spots. And so I really found myself like really in tune with those guys. So I started, while I was really in sales, I kind of worked with those guys almost more than I worked with the sales guys. Then they, a position came available where I could move up to Oregon and basically, you know, be part of the product creation team. So what year was this? This was like, 89, 90? 89, 90. So at this time, yeah, Jordan was already in the league. Nike is making a scene that Jordan's shoes are doing their thing, but you're working with Nike directly. Now, they're like, move up to here. Did you move without even coming here before or had you come and made a visit first? Yeah, I had been here. I was like, there's no way where I'm going to put it. I was about to ask you, I was like, what did you think when you first got here? I was like, especially then. Oh, coming from Southern California where the weather's always good and it's always raining in here. I was like, man, I'm like, I'll never go there. And as soon as I say that, and that's why you never say never. Right, right, right, right. Because as soon as the opportunity came, I ended up moving up and, you know, it was... So this is kind of like your first time leaving the nest a little bit, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. When you went to college locally. Yeah, I was here for a minute. Yeah, it was like, everything was there. Yeah. Yeah, I think about that too. Like, man, I remember that first time going off to college, like, you know, not being like close to home. Yeah. So how did that kind of go? Just like mentally kind of coming up here, like, I got to make friends. I already got people. Oh, man, it was crazy. Cause, you know, especially then, Portland isn't huge diverse. No, yeah, we're like 4% or something like that. And so, and then it was even worse. So I come up and again, always been in the cars. So coming from Cali, I transfer up here. I got my car and it's laid out and has California tags on it still. Man, especially on Beaver too. What? Oh my God. What? They were all over me, like giving me the dirty looks. And even within the organization, there was, you know, there was not a ton of diversity within the company. And so literally, you know, it was different. It was really different. That was going to be my next question too. Like, remember how we talked about fitting in and being in an environment in high school and it kind of worked. But then when you got to here at Nike and the type of people that are here, now you're talking about like real life adults, the workspace, it could be completely different. So how did it kind of go? And how did you kind of navigate that mentally where you're like, okay, I need to adapt to these things or I need to like be strong on what I believe in or whatever, you know, what were those kind of... Well, you learn to, you do things where you don't sacrifice, you know, your personal morals and ethics. You learn by trial and error because there's a lot of things that I think early on that I did, had I known the outcomes or had I known other ways to go about doing it like I did later on in my career, if I had applied those things early, I probably would have even had a, you know, a quicker road to success. So what do you think were those things? Yeah, so I'll just give you an example. So you can't, you're always gonna have to learn the art of negotiations. Yeah. Like you're never gonna be 100%, right? Even if you are, you're not gonna be 100% right. Because there's someone with a bigger business card that might not wanna do that, might not get it. You might have all the research, done the data, everything, but in a company, you know, especially Fortune 500 company, there's folks that can always trump that decision. So for me, what I learned, you know, I used to wear my emotions on my sleeve. Like my mentality was like, what you see is what you get. I have no hidden agendas. Like you can respect me for where I'm coming from because there's no hidden agendas. Early on, that did not work though. Right, right. You know, because I was expecting everybody else to operate that way. And they didn't react the same way you were expecting. No, no. So once you learn how to play the game and you learn like the power of influence and how you can influence people and how you can do things to get the things that you ultimately need and how you can be smart about getting those things, that's when I became. So you're like, I'm getting power not only, you can get power in so many different ways and people can use it in the wrong ways, right? So you found ways to have proper power without doing like bad things. Still be intro to yourself, doing all those things. So how did you kind of leverage that to move up and take that game to the next level? So we used to talk about learning how to manage up. Okay. And so for me, when I was told that I needed to learn how to manage up, I was like, to me, that sounded like you want me to kiss your ass to get where I need to go. That's what it sounded like. And that's how I took it early on. But when I really, truly understood what it meant is when, like I said, I became really powerful. And what it really means is that you can be in a certain situation, but how you articulate your thoughts, how you craft your story, how you, and whether that's in a deck format or whether it's just in speaking, and how you work with people at a higher level, that's when you can truly become powerful. And that's really what the nature of managing up was for me. When I understood that, it was a quick ride. I think that's one of my struggles that I have right now. I'm like, this is what you get. I'm straightforward. I don't cut all the other stuff out. I'm like, this is what I need, but it becomes too direct or this or you're aggressive, all that stuff. And I'm like, no, I have best intention, all those things, but sometimes I can understand how it comes out this way. But then it's like, okay, now I have to, then I started going through the whole thing of like, oh, I'm conforming to what everybody else wants me to be and all of this stuff. And I'm fighting with that. And then my wife would be like, just look at how you say it this way. And I'm like, but that's what they want me to say. But you gotta know the battles and how to win the battle. You know, they talk about you wanna win the war, you wanna win the battle, you know? And so what I learned, I was always just like you. I feel like I'm coming out of that, but I'm still like, I can't say I'm not all the way out of it. Yeah. But what you'll notice though is in the end, if you can prioritize things and you can get the things that you really want. So I'm gonna give you an example. One of the things I used to teach, like my guys quite often, and this is kind of like speaks to the power of negotiation. I'm a person who likes to do a lot of things and everything in threes, because I think it's very simple. Like you go past three, then people start to forget. So what I would tell my team is like, look, you gotta make priorities. Okay, so if you are going into a meeting where you know there's gonna be some controversy, figure out what it is that you have to win. Okay. There's a priority that you have to win because if you don't win that one priority, then guess what, it's gonna have a devastating effect on other things that you gotta do. Then you take your second priority, like okay, yeah, I really wanna win this, but in the end of the day, if I don't win this, okay, I'll be able to live. You just forgot the first one. Yeah. And then the third one is like, okay, you know what? This is one out of all the priorities of why I would love to have this one. If I lose this one, it's no big deal. Okay. So what I would tell my team is like, look, so when you go into these negotiations, try to control the agenda, start with the one you're willing to give up. Yeah, that's you. Because what's gonna happen is, is you go in there, you negotiate, you talk, talk, ultimately you're gonna give it up, and you're like, okay, you give it up. Well, now what you've done is you put the defense mechanisms down. Now people are open to hearing what you gotta say. They're not so worried about protecting their point of view. They just gotta win. And as you move up, everybody knows you're not gonna win everything. So now you go straight to the one that you have to win. You're number one priority. Okay. 95% of the time you will get that one because they just got one, you gotta get one. Then the third one, which was your second priority, sometimes you win it, sometimes you lose it. But think about it, you won the war. Because you went in there with the notion of your priorities and you walked out of there with the game plan that you went in there with. That's winning the war. I like that. I like that. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. So sometimes you gotta give to get. Yeah, not for sure. If you prioritize it and you know the one that you have to have and you win that one, you're good. Okay. So back on topic. We got, you're at Nike. How long were you at Nike before you went to Jordan brand? Well, so Jordan wasn't even a brand. Well, yeah. I went there. So yeah, Jordan didn't start till 97, 98. And so we built product a year and a half out. So I was working on the stuff before it became a brand. So it didn't really become its own brand till seven or eight years after I started. But I was already doing Nike basketball, which back then MJ was getting a portion of the flight business. And so I was working on that, along with working on all the other great stuff, the Barclays, pennies. Yeah. Just great. That was the best. That was the best. Unmatch. Yes. I don't know if we're gonna ever be able to reach that point again. I don't think, and I'm telling you like, I worked with a crew of so many talented people. You know, this guy that brought me in with his name was David Bond. He was really, really super talented. I worked with a ton of talented designers. It was just, we had teams that were just second to none. The way we approached the understanding of the game and not being afraid of trying new things and doing different things, like the team was, you know, so many good guys. I truly believe it was the best air for basketball. So during this time too, you're like learning all these things about running businesses and managing big dollars and all this stuff. And it's like, did you, at that time in the mid 90s, did you see yourself having your own brand now? Or was it just like, this I'm gonna do, I'm retiring, be good? No, you know, it's so funny. I was living the good life because, you know, I really feel like I've been blessed. You know, it was funny, people back in the day would ask me, like, how did you get this job? I used to say, you know, it was a matter of being at the right place at the right time, but when I started thinking about that, that's not really correct. Like I think a lot of the things that I did early on put me in a position to kind of be where I am, you know? But it was a lot of having to do with following my passion, you know? So leaving Nordstrom, not playing hoops and going to my second passion, which was kind of just a whole footwear world of fashion. And so, you know, so I went down that lane. And honestly, again, my mentality was just like, be the best and I was having fun. You know, I was culturally relevant. Like I was just applying, like I knew the world that loved the sneaker game. If we just did the right thing, they're come. Right. You know, I was living, I was kind of trying to be the voice of the consumer from a cultural standpoint. And you know, when you think of basketball culture, you think of music, you think of fashion, you think of art and, you know, sport itself. So that was just the world that I lived in. And I was like, I'm gonna make sure we do what's right by the consumer that's like me. How did you research culture then to research and culture now? Cause I feel like two completely different worlds. Especially with social media and everything. Yeah, yeah. It's different, but it's kind of the same. Okay. And I say it's kind of the same because you still have the love of those four elements. They live in both worlds. You're right. It's different in the sense of, you know, the digital world we live in, you have access to so many things that, you know, in such a quick manner. But for me, the key was being able to authentically tell stories that people could relate to. And so if you could veneer a product that tells that story, people can relate to you and they're gonna rock with you. And that's, no matter where you are, whatever you're in, people can respect and appreciate what you do if it comes from an authentic place. So I think of, when I think of Nike or Jordan Bolst, everybody says the same thing compared to other brands. They're built off of storytelling. So are you the goat of storytelling or did you get it from somebody else? Or how did, you know, how did that all like really align where you like, I got to tell a story through this product. Yeah. So I learned from, you know, folks who kind of taught me. And like I said, that one guy, David, he was really good at it. But I just kind of applied it to the culture because I was more connected to the culture. And when I realized that, like one day I was in a museum and I saw this painting by Picasso and I went up to this panel and I was like, shit, I can do that. Right. You know, I'm like, this dude's got these crazy geometric shapes. He's got eyeball over here, eyeball over there, these dark areas, these bright areas. This is like kind of random stuff. And I was like, this is where, how many million? Like, I can do this, you know? And then, so I looked at it and I was like, okay, whatever. And then I read the story about what he was going through in his life. And it talked about the dark times and everything in the dark part of the painting represented the dark time of the life. But that eyeball that said in that was him being able to see and have a vision that things are going to be better. You look at the bright side of it and then that eyeball in the bright was like, hey, I've come to this resolution that things are good. And so now the story started to make sense to me. And I look back at the painting with a whole new level of respect. And I just basically said, like, that's what we have to do. If we want to connect with consumers, we got to tell stories, allow them to respect and appreciate where we're coming from. Like the painting, they still might not like the painting, but at least they can respect that it has a purpose and it has a place that it came from. And so for me, being able to stay connected to the culture and tell stories, I think that's where most people give me a lot of my praise. Okay, so I feel like a lot of stuff that I've seen, everybody just cares about like your relationship with Jordan and they like don't want to know much about you. And I'm like, I want to know more about you. So I'm like, what can you tell me? Yeah, you had the golden times and all that stuff, but like, was there any struggles in that moment or any things that like you started second guess things or like, this can't be this good for this long? Like something's having a, having like, cause that happens to a lot of people. You mean about my career? Yeah, just like while you're in the middle of that career as you know, working to the 2000s era. Yeah, so, you know, I've always kind of pride myself on being able to identify good talented people. And so I just loved finding folks that I feel like had the passion, had the eye and anything that I could do to kind of help them grow was really what it was all about for me. And so being a leader, I think that was really good, but being a leader, you know, there comes a lot of things that you have to do that sometimes you may not want to do. And there were times where like, I felt like, especially if you're charged with the task of creating a vision, like most people know what they like today. They don't know what they're going to like in the future. And we're building products a year and a half out. I know that is so crazy. I always talk about that all the time. It's like, y'all can literally control what the new trend is going to be a year and a half from now, two years from now. Like I see projects five years y'all been working on it. Like he just dropped. That's right. And it's a difficult thing to do. But so sometimes you have to be able to convince people that this is the right thing to do. And sometimes you've got to do that with people who aren't even connected to the culture. And but they have bigger business cards than you. And so again, how you articulate, how you manage up all becomes part of that, that, you know, task and getting what you need done. And so there's times where I was just like, dude, the juice is not worth to squeeze. Like I'm pounding it out. I know this is the right thing to do. And I'm selling people in the idea they're still not getting it. Like I can't keep beating my head up. You know, like it's just not worth it. It becomes not worth it at times. So you're coming home from work at the end of the day. Oh, beat up. Like feeling like you just got abused. So I know I'm listening to me. Like, yeah, I can't, like it's not working. And the mental struggle is real. Like, you know, I've always, you know, when I was able to find the balance to like work life balance, like I realized that was really healthy for me because while I thought I was grinding and always putting out a hundred percent, you really aren't when you're mentally not fully there. Yeah. So, but there are times like, yeah, I go home like, man, just drained and, but my it's funny. My creative time comes to me like usually between like one and like four in the morning. So, so, so it just comes in and I always keep, you know, either my phone nowadays, but it used to be patent paper next to me and I'd write stuff down because I didn't want to forget it when I woke up, but I'd write it down and make it happen. Sometimes I just stay up and just make it happen. But yeah, man, it's the having the ability to kind of want to do some things that you know are really right and then not being able to do them. And then, then, or even being able to do something after people have finally said, OK, go ahead. And then it works. And they're like, then they take all the prints. No, I'm not. Yeah. Both of those things are like, really? Right. I feel that. So like relationships and all the other stuff outside of work, like you're having a great time, but you think this is also like affecting that in certain ways? Like, how did you manage the other mental side of like, you know, some people they go go on a run, they ride their bike, they play music, they be like, what was your kind of like? My outlet. My outlet is really playing basketball. To still get buckets. Yeah, I still put them up. And then, you know, listen to music nowadays is playing golf. OK, I love golf, so I play a lot of golf. And it's my, you know, golf to me is a fabulous game because if I told you, say, hey, look, man, oh, four hour meeting, you want to meet with me for a while? You'd be like, hell, no. Yeah, but you but you'll play golf. And so you've got a person's undivided attention for literally four hours where you learn a lot about a person, you know, guys out there cheating. Like, OK, I hear you probably cheating in life, you know, like so. So there's so many things that you can do that for me, golf has just been a great outlet. And you're, you know, it's really a battle against yourself in the course. You know, yeah, you can play your friends for money and you want to win. But at the end of the day, it's you got to hit the shot and you mess up is on you. It's not on anybody else. So yeah, so that's been that was OK. I like that. What's what's one of your most legendary golf games that you've had? Well, my best score that I've ever shot, I shot at 69, OK, which is really good. It was one of those days where, you know, those don't happen very often, at least not for me, for some some folks they do. But it was funny because the day before I had played and I shot a 70 and the the 18th hole, I double bogey the 18th hole. So I was like, it could have been even better, you know, shot 68. Right. And I was like, dang. So then the very next day I went and played and I shot 69. And it was just everything was working. Like it's good. And then those don't happen that often. Because then in the game of golf, you literally can go out and shoot 69 one day and then come back and shoot 89. And it's the same. Like it's just the day later. And so many dynamics of the swing, the conditions. It's a tough game to master. No, definitely, for sure. OK, so that's all happening again. You're learning and just putting all these tools in your bucket in your shed of just like managing big businesses, relationships, getting finding ways to reduce stress and you're coming through the years. And obviously, yeah, you do the legendary again, because that's the outcome. I started 2006. So, you know, all the classic stuff that came out, you know, but you kind of get to more of the tell in a career and you're like, where are you at now? You're like, I want to be down with this. I want to start my own thing, because you were already doing basketball courts and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So so so I'll tell you a crazy story. So and I'm really bad with years. So it's hard for me to remember the years. But at one point. So so when I started the business, the Jordan business, it was a hundred and sixty million dollar business between footwear and apparel. OK. And I through the heyday got it to one point one billion just footwear alone. And I had to do a little bit of apparel in between there. But so we got to one point one billion. And then the company and primarily the business was done domestically like 90 percent of the business was done in the US. So they came to me and said, hey, look, if this is going to go to the next level, we've got to go global. And we want you to take on this global GM role. OK. And we're going to give you three people to work with you to take on the rest of the world. And I was like, you know. And to me, the report card for me was like watching all the kids line up at the retail stores for the shoe. I'm like, job well done, team. We're good. Right. Right. Right. And now you're asking me to go tackle the rest of the world with three people. And matter of fact, the rest of the world in most places don't even care about basketball. Right. And I'm going to have to fight with the Nike priorities, like them getting it over the top. They got more people. I'm like, this feels like a set up. Like I was like, this try to get me out. And so ultimately, though, what it ended up doing is it not only changed my career, but it actually changed my life personally. I started to realize that basketball culture lived everywhere else in the world. Right. You just had to find it. Like I had Nike people take me to London one time. I said, take me where the hotspots are. They took me to those Courtney's dudes were playing in Birkenstocks and Black Sox. And I was like, this ain't it. And so then I found some guys, they're like, no, you need to go here. You need to go here. And literally, it was like you were in the States. I went to Paris and found that. Well, the whole event, I don't know if you've heard of, but the K-54 event, like I want to go one day. Oh, dude, you have to go. I know. It is the best experience. I want to go. I need to go. There's nothing. I was there with a lethal shooter last summer. And he was like, gee, there's nothing like this. And it looks just. It's phenomenal. Like it looks so dope, so dope. And the very first one was these guys are playing on this busted court. People were hanging in trees and all you heard was the music. And I looked at it and I was like, this is it. This is the heart of the culture. Oh, right here. You wouldn't even know you were in Paris. You would have thought you were in New York or wherever. And so anyway, so so what the reason I say it changed my life is because I realized that basketball culture lives all over the world. And so what I ended up doing is I started my own foundation. I call it the Irving Country Club. And it was just basically me being able to build basketball courts and underprivileged parts of the world. I had kids come in and help us build these courts, because I didn't want to just come in and then leave. And then, you know, they're like, whatever. Yeah, we did the same. So so we have like 50, 60 kids help us build these courts. Then we come up with the theme. We have another 50, 60 kids that have interest in art. We build a mural around the court. And then we donate the court back to the community. We have a festival where, you know, all the kids had helped. We give them free product and all that stuff and find another 1,500 kids to come to the event and just experience sport music or all that. And we dedicate it back to them so that when we leave, all those people that had, you know, a time, whether it was just enjoying the moments or they put in some work, like they feel like it's theirs. And so, yeah. So so so that but that was just one thing that allowed me to change, you know, change my life personally. But I realized that, you know, you could have a bigger impact than just creating cool sneakers. Right. Like the impact that like the K 54 does in Paris, like it's one of the only events that people of color have a chance to come together in a big city like Paris, a major city like Paris and just celebrate and is celebrating the culture that they know and love. And so that was like the springboard for me to see things differently. Like, yeah, this creating great products is is is like very cool. But it's bigger than that. That's when you became global. Gee, literally, literally, literally. So that that is a it's so dope how I always tell people, it's more than sneakers. Like we can do so many things because I love like giving away shoes to and being a part of like somebody's story. Because like once you give them that pair of shoes, like they're never going to forget that's right. That's where I'm going to and they're going to have stories that they created. That's right. They're going to come and tell you. That's right. You may never even see the person. That's right. Either way, something dope. So I love how you did that and you're still doing that. Yeah. Well, and that's that was the impetus for me now, starting my own brand. I just felt like like the world had become, especially sneaker world, become like collaborations, like everybody thought collaborations was the thing to do. Oh my God. And then it got to the point where and honestly, like the very first collaboration, like I sat down with the guys that undefeated and we talked, we did the the undefeated for and that was going to be the springboard into collaborations. Like the original idea was to to work with them. And then I had other retailers on the list. We would build products and their likenesses and tell stories. But the key was that a portion of that was supposed to go back to cherry. Mm hmm. Didn't necessarily happen to the club they wanted. Yeah, so I was like, this is not cool. So I kind of went away from but but but but again, like me starting my own company, I was like, OK, you know what? Everybody's doing these collaborations and everybody's going to people that are already well known. Well, I started running into people that nobody knew about that had crazy talent. And so I was like, you know what? These people now need a platform. Everybody's going to go to the go to guys. Well, you already know them. Yeah, let's find these folks who have the potential, who have the skill set, but don't have the means of doing it. And so me starting my own company. That's really what it was about, is how do I allow the same way that I work with an athlete, an NBA player. We build a shoe in his likeness, becomes his signature shoe. He gets royalties from that shoe, company sells that shoe. And the world hopefully likes that shoe. Well, I feel like we can do that with creative folks. Right. I can sit down with someone. They can create a shoe based on my brand. We can sell it for them. And I can give them the royalties the same way that we would give an athlete the royalties on that side. Give that to that creative person so that that person can now go off and start their own company. Or if they're young, like we're working with the Art Center School and out of LA, kids as young as eight years old, if that person, while he's not going to start his own company at eight, we can use those funds for him to go to design school or whatever. So use it as scholarship money. So that was the impetus. I feel like I was blessed in so many ways, had a fabulous career. But giving back is what it's really all about. And that's what makes it sustainable, paying it forward to the next generation of creative folks. And I think the same thing like story, right? Like the story behind the brand allows it to stay alive, which I mean, obviously we can't say it's like seven years old yet, but I can see why it could go that far and be deep into the game years from now. Because of that story and people understanding like it's not just a parachute. Like you think of like Tom's and what they do and stuff like that. People understand that story becomes a commonly known thing. So I love that part and how you do it. And it's cool because like you basically created like PEs. And collaborations like those essentially came from you when it comes to like way back in the day. And now, again, it's about to come into the game again. I saw you were working like Randy Moss and creating different colorway. So right now you have their models that are going to be available to the public or they're going to have like their own PEs or like, how are you going to go about that? It's kind of the same very similar format. So, you know, the name of the company is called Code. And primarily because there's always a code. Like if you have the code to unlock something, you're in, you know, you're in and whatever it is. And so so that's kind of really what where it comes from. And what I will be doing is working with various people, unknown people, as well as well known people to come up with their version of the code. And the code is basically telling your story through product. And again, because I think that's authentic. And and so, yeah, so we'll sit down with folks like Randy Moss, folks like Kevin Hart, for several folks that are that are within our portfolio and we'll do their code version. And so people will come on to the website. Randy's code will probably be something like six, six, seven, seven. So that's Moss and digital. OK, OK, yeah, because you guys had that for the event. I saw you had the numbers. Yeah, yeah. Everything is in me and trailing tell stories and making sure even the logo itself, like we talk about being able to take care of consumers 24 seven. So if you look at our code logo, the C, the secondary logo is seven dots in the C, 24 dots in the rest of the word code 24 seven, like everything is a story. So how do you even like get that detailed and go that deep into telling that story? Because I think a lot of people that have their own brands, they have their own thing going on, like they want to feel like, I don't know how to explain it, but you know how sometimes people be like, what I'm doing is not cool enough, right? But it's like everything everybody's doing is cool enough. Yeah. But when you can take it that far and make it that intricate, then it's like, that's what makes it cool, right? That's what makes it deeper. That's right. That's right. How do you like find the skills to dig that deep? To be honest with you, I don't know. Some of it I think is just instinctually like I'm just that detailed oriented. And I just think it adds more authenticity to the story. So, you know, a lot of times it's it's the one thing that, you know, you go to school and you wonder like back in high school, everybody says this, am I ever going to use this when I go off school? Everybody says that. But honestly, like research, I do a lot of research. Like when I come up with a concept that I think will be cool, I research it out. Like I go deep and then the deeper you go, you find little nuggets that just add so much more meaning to whatever your story is going to be. So it's kind of like the Picasso thing with everything kind of being detailed and you look deeper into the image and you hear the story. And then now it's like you got so many different aspects to it. So right now you have three different models. Yep. And then different colorways for each model and everything. Seventeen different colors. Which are retail price point out everything. And then what's like the kind of plan for the type of audience that you're going after? So I believe that, you know, trends like the millennials actually changed the sneaker game in the sense of you used to be you used to be able to to like almost predict that trends were going to change. So it used to be sneakers would be hot and sneakers would have usually a longer run. So you'd get like a, you know, seven to ten year run on sneakers. Yeah, I remember that. Then it would flip and then people would do the boot. So Doc Martins would get hot, Timberlands would get hot. They went on a shorter one. They go like three to five years. And then it would be like dress shoes, like hard. So hard bottoms would be good. And that would even go on a little shorter run. Yeah, people are rocking the Spurries back in the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So and so the millennials came in and basically said, like, we're rocking with this athletic look and we've been on like a 20 year run. And so I feel like at some point the trend is going to shift a little bit. But there's things that this that that consumers today have grown to love about the sneaker culture. So the comfort element of it. The fact that you don't have to wear hard bottom shoes and your feet are hurting the whole time, excuse me. And you have the ability to dress it up. Well, to me, you can take a shoe like Air Force One and a white white Air Force One can almost go with everything. Right, right. But if you wear it with a suit, it can go. But it really like doesn't go, you know, it goes, but it doesn't go. So so what my brand is trying to do is give you that elevated proposition. And so you'll see. And then I try to every every model has a reason for for its existence. And then I try to create three different personalities. So if you ultimately love one of my styles, you're going to be able to get it in multiple ways. So if you see it in all white, it looks kind of like a luxury athletic sneaker. If you see it in all black, you can definitely wear it with a suit of how we've treated it with materials and colors. And you can dress it up with a suit very easily. And then I do a what I consider a fashion version. So if you want to go out to the red carpet, if you're going out with your girl at night, you want to, you know, step it up, be a little fly. You can rock it with suede or spikes or whatever. And so you can take that one shoe in three different personalities and you'll be good just like you do when you was a little kid. You know what? Yeah, it is kind of like that. Yeah. And it really is. That's dope. So so that's that's kind of what it what it's all about. And then, you know, like I said, it's a platform for me to kind of connect with creatives, young creatives. That's really like, like I said, I've been blessed. And now this is my way of giving back. Right. So it's almost like, yeah, a form of like philanthropy, a bit is kind of like, it's a business. We got to make money still, you know, I got people working for me. So I got to make sure they can get paid. But at the same time, like we're about to go change the game and help a lot of people at the same time. That's right. And I mean, yeah, how many brands can say that? Yeah, especially in your competition. Because I mean, yeah, I don't know who we look at. You got some other couple. Like, exactly. But you look at some of those others and, you know, the consumer that I'm targeting, they're looking at those like, I'm a dad rock those. Right. I'm really trying to rock. So I give them a little bit of a little bit, athletic swag, just elevate it so that one, you get into comfort. And that's some of the things I started with, like, so I've been in the game long enough to know, like, OK, you've got margin targets that you're trying to hit for a business standpoint. And I know the first thing that usually goes are the sock liners. And she was like, you put a cheap sock liner in it because the outside is what everybody cares about the wrenches all the time. I'll be like, bro, why are y'all doing that? Yeah. And so so me, I started there. So when you put on my shoes, like most people will ask the first thing like, dang, these things feel great. And I paid close attention to it. It was important for me. And so I started there. And then after that, it was about, you know, the styling and how you can create some versatility in the style. So. You said you have any color, 17, 17 total, 17 total. What do you see it being as like in the future? Do you think it's going to be like, we're going to go heavy with these three models? We're going to start introducing new lines, like starting to hit different other audiences? Like, yeah, I'm like, for me, like, I just started a merch from our YouTube channel. And I got like a couple of shirts like we do. We got the ink out of teas. We got a little sneaker department stuff. I got a couple of teas I'm going to drop. But you can go with like a bunch of different designs or you can like just beat the drum on these certain things for a while. And I think a lot of people that's getting started on their own brands, they're trying to figure out like, what should I do? Should I have all these different things? Should I try to like master this one thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think everybody has to figure out what's best for them. For me, I try to let the consumer decide. So so so if if I'm in a space where consumers vote by their purchases and they love one style over the other, then I'm going to make sure that I hang on to that model for a decent amount of time. But I'm going to give them fresh looks, like I'm going to give it to them in a way that's different. And if that becomes a staple in our brand, it's like, it's like, you can't you can't say that you're going to create a classic. Right. Right. People that say that they're they're all messed up because you're not going to create the consumers are going to dictate what becomes a classic. So if one of my products that is out now becomes a classic, then I'm going to allow that to stay in the line a little bit longer. I think the principle about each style has a true meaning that people can relate to. And so I'll probably change those up to give them different looks, one, to be trend relevant to to make sure that, you know, I continue to deliver freshness because, again, I still operate from that mentality of wanting to push the limit. Like coming out, usually the first design that I had, they were all out there. And I was like, this will never work because it's too far out there. And I'm brand new, so people aren't going to get it. So I've got a dollar back, but then I got to be able to give people like something that is fresh. And so that's how I got to kind of the three different personalities. And so as I start to mature in the business, I think my designs will also kind of push the limits, even that much more. And, you know, just good business is being able to strike a balance between, you know, some things that people can call their essentials versus things that they want to peacock on. So so the plan is to, you know, to continue to evolve the models. But should there be a model that the consumers decide that this is a classic and we want to stay with it? Then I'll rock. So what's your favorite of my life? Actually, my is the one I'm wearing today. Oh, OK, OK. It's just way different. And that's the entrepreneur. Yeah, this is called the entrepreneur and the entrepreneur is always going to be the style that pushes the limit a little bit more. This one in particular, the concept that I came up with for this one is called peak performances. OK. So and so the whole notion around it is is drafting off of kind of the tunnel walk. So, you know, NBA guys come in and they walk through the tunnel and you see what they have on and it's kind of like a fashion show. But a lot of people don't know, though, is that this is more about a mindset. So think about it. Typical NBA season starts game day. Player goes shoot around, put up shots, get the game plan, go home, take a nap, get their pregame meal, whatever it is. Most guys are somewhat superstitious, but they get their pregame meal. And then they step into their closet. So go time. Yes. That's when it starts. That's what I just thought about that because I remember. Yeah, that's right. You did. Yeah. So think about like if you know that you got to go play against LeBron James, you know, six, nine, two, seventy beast running up and down the court. Your beast mode might be, OK, I'm wearing all black. I'm going to be menacing. Right. And so you look in your closet and you start to pick out the outfit that represents that. Or some guys might be like, shit, I got to have a ton of energy. So I'm wearing bright colors. I'm going to be flamboyant. Like I'm going to be hyped before I even get there. Right. So there's the mindset starts when you go into your closet. And then with those guys, it's it carries on to the car that they're going to drive to the arena and all that. Right. That's levels to right there. But but it's about a mindset. And so really what I did with this line, it started off with kind of that tonal walk mindset that starts when you're looking in your closet. And so I wanted people to have product that was going to work for them. And then how I got to this notion of peak performance is so you put it on. And at the end of the day, just like the NBA guys, they get to the arena. They go through a change of clothes and they step on the court. That's their time to shine. And that's when they have they want to have their peak performance. So in my line, peak performance became the studs that I put on it. Some of them have the metallic foils on it for time to shine. And so that's how that concept came out. But I just love it because it's different. It just it makes a statement, you know, but it's crazy. Like I wear it with just about anything and it works. So what's the what's the website and everything? So I know about that too. So code by gentry.com. OK. And and then you got you got anything else before we wrap up? No, you know, I think the only thing is what I want to I'll say that one, I appreciate you for, you know, even reaching out here in the story, because I think, you know, I'm not that guy that likes to like peacock and stand out and be front and say how much I say, me, me, me. Right. Right. But I have had an influence on the culture. And what I realized is that what I can give back most is if there's another black brown kid or any kid out there that has aspirations that wants to do something in this world and I can help show them that someone that looks like them was able to kind of which is huge to do something in this world. That's what it's about. And so thank you for allowing me to kind of be able to share that. And then, you know, I looked around and it's your collection. I love folks who just love the game. Yeah. And you've obviously done some pretty pretty special things because you got some heat up in here. So kudos to you for for staying true to the game this long and, you know, sharing your platform to educate folks because, you know, education is is powerful. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's it's crazy. Just thinking about like all these different moments and how things have happened from me just growing up here. Like, obviously, your Nike adidas, all the different headquarters around like wearing samples as a kid and everybody got some type of family ties and yeah, yeah, yeah. And just establishing like I'm going to be a sneakerhead when I get to high school and making that decision, committing to it. And it became a part of my lifestyle and it didn't fully like define who I am. But I think it's dope that sneakers have been able to help me. And I remember those moments that I've created from the shoes that you were a part of that you didn't even realize, like you said, that has helped and inspired somebody like me to build what I've done. And you guys have had huge impacts on a lot of our success without other people knowing or even getting a chance to say it to you. So for me, I would say thank you as well, just because, like I said, I remember when I was just started right after the DMP pack came out. So for me, it was like, that was the goal. You got to get that pack. You got to be the goat to get that pack, you know, like and going after stuff like that, chasing after shoes and seeing that in the stories and all the stuff and learning about the brand and then seeing not only MJ, but the people from the back end. And I love the opportunity to create it. That's why I like having this podcast is so dope because you guys have amazing stories. You guys have done amazing things that have shifted the culture. And yeah, you got the one token person up at the top. But it's like everybody right here, like they had a huge play to why this person is so successful too. So that's real. Yeah, I appreciate it. Oh, we got to do the final little fire around. So people ask me these questions all the time. So always asking everybody else. Favorite shoe of all time. For me, the favorite shoe of all time is is probably different than most people. But my favorite shoe of all time is their Jordan 11. OK, but be mainly not different. No, but you know why? What's what reason is different is because people don't realize how close that shoe was to not coming out. Really? Can you imagine the world without the 11? Like, so, so, so, so just think about this. Like back then, nobody had seen Patton Leather on shoe. You saw him on tuxedo shoes only. And who want to wear tuxedo shoes? Nobody. So so when we brought like I was like, you couldn't tell me it was the best shoe in the history of shoe. When I first came in, I was like, this is it. This is like the best thing since chocolate cake. So so you say I put it on there or like you saw it and you're like, that's it. Or no. So what happened was when the shoe came in, we thought it was internal. We thought it was phenomenal. OK, but back in the day, we used to be able to do focus groups. Now I can't do. I used to do in my high school. Like we were throwing football gloves. I made the elite socks. Like, oh, it's all right. Yeah, I have to wear like a bunch of projects, too. I know. So yeah. Yeah. So we would do focus groups. Now you can't do it because you put stuff out there. Social media gets it out there. Yeah, right. You can't do nothing. But but back then we could do that. We could sit in focus groups and we did them all over the world. And everybody was crapping on it. Take the shiny shit off the shoe and it'll be hot. Really? Everybody. We have we ate maybe five to 10 percent of people because you learned how to work in these focus groups. Like people would crap on it and then certain certain kids, the kids that were kind of more early adopters would pick it up and be like, something about this is actually all right. So then you start tapping in them. What did you did you have? Like, was it an all black sample? Was it the black original? And we didn't have Concord on it at the time, but it was black, white. So it was a it was a Concord colorway. Yeah. And people were like, not like any. Yes, yes. I could see if it was like, you know, because sometimes like a triple black and they just run this sample. No, it was a Concord and people were just like because we had them all three. We had we had the bread. We had everybody got the bread, but we had the bread. We had the white Carolina and we had the original Concord. And they were just like, take the shiny set off this year. Really? And we literally went back and we were like, should we take it off because we had so many people killing it. And we're like, no, like M.J. loves it. It serves a functional purpose. It's disruptive. That's what we're about. We don't mind being this rub. We're rocking with it no matter what. So we stuck to our guns. And that's why it's my favorite shoe, because it could have easily gone the other way. Right. And but by us sticking to it, it was proof that it became proof that you need to be you need to not be afraid. You've got to be sometimes you've got to be comfortable. Yeah, trust it. Yeah. So that's why I'm now people like because it's just a great shoe. But it's my favorite because when people don't know that that what went into to make it sure that came about. OK, OK, I know we're supposed to be rocking up, but I got a couple questions down. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So two things because I know you're like a part of doing like the Nike year and all that stuff and like and respecting the Nike year because I'm the same way. You know, like you can't just be throwing it on everything. Yeah. Same thing with the Jordan 11. I feel like it should be like classics only type thing. You know what I'm saying? So like, what do you what do you feel about that? Like with all the different color ways. And it's like, all right, I get it. Y'all got to like hit numbers for work and everything. But like because I talk about that, too. I'm like, oh, y'all remember how they used to do 111 and now they do amends in a women's one and they do the low tops and it did it. Yeah, well, and even back in the day, we would do no more than for a year. You know, and that was it. You know, if you got them, you got them. You didn't well. Yeah. So it's, you know, obviously changed. It's a fine balance, you know, because to your point, you're you're asked to run a business and you got to hit numbers. And when you're dealing in a growth company, you got to do what you got to do. Right. Now, again, I talked earlier about, you know, not trying to to do doing having to do things that you don't want to do. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had on that one. Right. Trying to save the holy grail of a of a shoe that is the all time classic. And then, you know, numbers aren't being hit. And they're like, all we got to do is add another color. Well, yeah, that's all we got to do. But yeah, you're you're you're biting into the kind of the the the specialness of what this shoe is all about. Every time you do it. Yeah, because I always me and my dad talk about that, too. Like, we feel like it kind of devalues it a little bit, at least for the collector side. Yeah. And it's like, how is that going to play, you know, 10 years from now? Because we was like, oh, yeah, it's been successful for almost 40 years. But it's like everybody's like, oh, Jordan's are going to be the same. Like, who cares about those five 50 years from now? Like, and I'm like, I don't know. It's interesting to see what we'll see how it all plays out and everything. But, you know, obviously, my generation will keep it strong. Hopefully, hopefully you guys do. But yeah, no, it's just interesting. So the other question, how many pairs of shoes do you have in your collection? I really don't know, which I figured that would probably answer. Because in 2014, they did a article on me. And at that point we counted and it was 3,514 pairs. Oh, you was exactly it. Yeah, I had to. I had to because I actually there was something else going on. I was getting the divorce. And so I had to know what. But so so that was 2014. I have no, like, since then, that's that's what we added nine years to that. Yeah, I say the amount of stuff that comes out now compared to then. Like, I'm more discerning about what I get now. Because I just don't have a lot of space. And, you know, I find myself like I have my go to shoes, you know, that I just, you know, I always have like, you know, the conquerors. I'll have a ton of those. Well, actually, I have from the defining moments back, I have some pretty crazy stuff, OG samples and stuff that was supposed to be a three shoe pack. OK, OK, it was supposed to be first championships was which his first one was at Carolina. OK, all three like all first. Yeah, OK, OK, so we had a converse that was done in white gold and had a Carolina jump, not a jump, but it had a shot. But that came in a different pack later. Well, it was supposed to if the shoe came out and well, Converse tried to bring because they did that. Yeah, because I remember they did a drop and then y'all did like a second one after something like that. Now, while I was there, maybe I'm trivia. Maybe there's a sample I've seen. Yeah, I think you saw a sample. Yeah, because while I was there, they wanted to bring it back. And I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But MJ kind of squashed it the first time, but it was originally supposed to be a three shoe pack. But yeah, I digress. So having a ton of shoes. Well, one day, if you ever decide to show your collection, hopefully I can be the one to review it with you. We'll see if I put my being in so many stuff. I've got it in so many places right now, but I'll let you know. OK, everybody. Yes, they always ask me how many. Well, the other one is what's the most you spent on a pair of shoes? But you can't really say that because you just work there. So yeah, I guess. What is your most what is your most prized possession sneaker that you have in your collection? Like the one that like, I guess means the most to you. Well, so I have a ton that never came out. Samples that I thought were like phenomenal, that should have come out. So I have several of those. I have some historical stuff that, you know, like that MJ was supposed to have and he and I are the only ones that have it. So I there's stuff like that that's out there. But to be quite honest with you, I probably say is the shoe that I probably over the last five years have worn the most was is to there's one there was an Air Jordan four that had my cartoon character on it. Oh, the white and tan one. Yeah, those are fire. Yeah, it's kind of like the sands, but a little bit different. Yeah, yeah, those are clean. And then the all white, black Air Force One, they have the same logo on it. OK, those two probably just because I feel like they represent me, they're they're two shoes that may have a lot of mean like the four was one of the first ones that I ended up working on with the guys who were in the product creation team. So that's super special to me Air Force One, just because, you know, I ended up doing some things in sportswear as well. And so that she was just a timeless classic piece. And the mistake, the white, black mistake was just it's just me. I feel like you can wear that shoe with everything goes. And so to have my face on that one, right, like those two are probably mine. That's dope. Especially, man, during that time, like with Spike Lee and all that, like, yeah, meeting Spike. Oh, that's that's a good stuff right now. OK, well, I appreciate it. If you got any other deep dark secrets you want to share with us, we're here all day. We'll cover most of them. But yeah, thanks again, man. And good luck to you. Thank you. Continue to forge through this, you know, and share kind of the whole game with all and with everyone. Yeah, for sure. Appreciate it. You got it. Yeah.