 Okay, we're live. Hey guys drew here that anxiety guy calm back again for another episode with Billy from anxiety United in the UK Well again, as it going Bill. Oh good. Those of you who watched our last video I'm gonna say it right up front. We'll notice that I'm wearing the same shirt Because we're doing these back-to-back and my friend Billy was smart enough to get up and change I pre that is that is ingenuity right there. Yes. If I had another shirt in the office I might have done the same so today Today we're gonna do the next Topic in we've been podcasting on an article that I wrote many years ago It's sort of an anxiety one-on-one thing. We'll link it in the description wherever you're listening go read the article today We're gonna talk about avoiding avoidance We'll talk about safety behaviors and avoidance behaviors and what what they are and why they are bad Why did we stop and where the big blur is between a good thing coping skill? Which is the last episode go and watch it if you haven't watched it and a bad thing which is avoidance or safety behaviors, so This could be really long. Where should we start on this one? I'm just trying to put maybe a scenario together and just think of how many safety behavior I mentioned it in the last video didn't I with the hospital thing. So yes, but for me I suppose the most safety behaviors is when I have to leave the house Because that's one of my big things. So like running through safety checks It's almost like being on a bloody airplane I imagine but I won't do that because I avoid it right but Checking that I've got bottles of water Checking that I've got my phone my wallet keys. I mean these are normal things I guess but it's like the intense checking the mints Knowing how far we've got to go where we've got to go Having food. I always take food with me now just in case my sugar level struck Yes, you know, I don't have any problems with that and I never have but it's just something for some reason I've just got into my head And and these are these are all good These are things that many of us did and I used to do to We used to joke about the water in the mints all the time. Yeah, we have I don't know if you have them over there We had these they used to be really popular. We have these mints called Altoids. Do you have Altoids over there? Not that I'm aware of Altoids. They're like uber mint. I mean like ultra mint So it was always Altoids and cold water because one of those mints and some cold water was so Minty that it would kind of these are the There you go. Okay, they're holes But these are supposed to be like cough sweets, but that's what I have that extra strong calls Always got a pack of them with me and it's that it's that jarring flavor that hopefully kind of takes you out of the moment I guess here's the airways knows right who knows But so what Billy's talking about are those would be safety behaviors So let's talk about what a safety behavior is and why it's bad safety behavior is Think of them as rituals So like for me, it was bringing water and mints and my phone and doing all that stuff like that you do A safety behavior is a as a behavior that you have started to engage in in response to a period of hang high anxiety or panic That you have somehow and you don't do this consciously, right? You have linked in your brain somehow saves you from your panic Yeah, that the mints in the water if you don't have the mints in the water something bad is going to happen, right? Safety behaviors could be are generally Distractions snap some people wear rubber band around their wrist, right? Yeah, they snap it Some people count like I have to count backwards from a hundred by sevens or something like that Some people turn up the radio in the car or or another big safety behavior is other people Calling that one particular person Person or safe people So safety behaviors essentially while they might sound good Right because they take you out of it But they really try to get you out of your own brain are actually bad because in the end Since things like panic disorder and anxiety disorders are cognitive malfunctions. We're we are mistakenly Reinforcing the idea that there is something that we need to be saved from Yeah, yeah, so the best way I could describe that and then maybe you can kind of add to this a little bit Is if for some reason you left the house and did not have your bottle of water and your mince That's why I was just gonna say and your and your crisps and and you felt terrible And you're and you had a panic attack Even without the water and the mints and the crisps and everything else that panic attack would ultimately end this They will be the same exact outcome whether you have those devices with you or not And is that something that's ever crossed your mind or yeah a hundred percent. It doesn't matter whether you've got I Think that the thing is if you do go and you're ten miles away from home And you realize that you've forgotten your bottle of water. Yeah, I can actually induce more anxiety So it becomes a problem, you know the preparation you're getting all this stuff together It's not gonna save you anyway, but if you forget it you're actually adding more fuel to a fire that wasn't even there before You know, that's very true. That's very very tough It's a really good point and I see people who like coloring books. We were talking about the coloring books Yeah for a while like that has become a really hot thing in my coloring book And I now know people who travel around with their coloring books in their colored pencils Yeah, because when they start to feel anxiety, they have to color and we could talk one day about the mechanism of why that works It's it's you're essentially getting your focus outward on the on what you're coloring on the paper And you're getting out of your own head and that sort of stuff It makes sense, but now they're now the coloring book becomes a crutch I can't leave the house without my coloring book. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it's almost saying I have to color to stop this Yes, I'm happening when the reality is we're trying to say just Accept that this is happening. Yes to fear. Don't try like it's as if I must color because I'm scared Yes, and I think the difference the huge difference and not to pick on coloring books If you if you have coloring books, sorry picking on you. Sorry, but or we'll talk about water or a safe person I think the safe person is I was thinking because we're as we're talking of these I'm thinking like pushing the shopping trolley around supermarkets having to be the one that pushes That's knowing where all the exits are as well. I'm not going too far away from the exits and all those right I'm gonna stop you at multiple times and just throw out. Yeah And I think that's fine because I think people like to know that like oh, I do that too Yeah, yeah, that's it. It's true But I think the key thing on a safety behavior We're gonna talk about avoidance too, but the key thing about I say this So, you know, it's a safety behavior and not a coping technique is if you believe that if you don't have that things will be worse It has become a safety behavior And you're actually making the problem worse because instead of learning to not be afraid of how you feel and not not Learning to not be afraid of panic or anxiety all you're doing is learning to Or mistakenly thinking that you are shielding yourself against this thing and it in the end You don't need a shield like the the bottom line here is you have to learn that you do not need a shield You don't need protection against the anxiety or panic So mince water your mom dad girlfriend boyfriend husband dog whoever makes you feel better Yeah, great to have those things, but you don't need a shield So you don't need a safety device and we have to learn that And I had them to add mince and water and I my doctor at one point gave me Xanax, you know Benzo, I don't know what's called. Okay, but yeah, whatever you guys call it And he gave me which I never used I Refused I was like too stubborn to use it, but I carried that stupid bottle around in the console of my car I mean they were long expired. They baked in the summer. They froze in the winter It was probably worthless But I would carry that bottle around for the longest time and I remember years down the road It was like such a big deal and I remember thinking like oh, I'm gonna throw this away But so yeah, you have to learn we want and we need to learn that you there's no real danger We don't need to be shielded so we don't need these devices. That's it. That's the key point isn't it? Yeah So what about we go back to the no real danger the no real danger, right? So we bring it back So the difference in coping we talked about coping skills on last one and safety behaviors The coping skill is designed to strip away the shield And I don't know this is probably confusing in some instances like you're trying to strip the shield away So if you can learn to just relax your body and breathe and be thoughtless and calm And just let that fear come at you as hard as it can you're dropping all your shields We're really trying to learn to drop all the shields and drop the defenses and just let it come So that you learn that oh that was it didn't kill me. It's okay. I don't need to be afraid of this So we should also talk about avoidance, which is another big one Avoidance still it's still haunts me avoidance. I still do it and it's just that it's get it I think that's the one thing. I've probably said that so many times already But avoidance is the thing that keeps me stuck because I I Don't know. I'm not so scared of the way that I feel anymore Like I'm so used to having the the sent the sensations or whatever it is, but I still I still avoid even though I still get the Jelly legs and the weird dizzy sensations and all of it I still get it whether I'm sitting here or wherever right, but if somebody asked me to do something There's just that that initial thought that initial reaction is always of avoidance. I'd rather not If you don't mind well, I think nobody wants to feel badly. Not none of us. Yeah. Yeah, we've discussed that. I mean, it's It's like what I was saying in the last video about the hospital just avoiding going into the hospital Right, which is hot. It's horrible. It makes I feel so guilty for not putting myself like my dad's lying in frigging hospital Just having surgery and I'm sitting in the car avoiding Feeling a bit Jelly-fied right half an hour, you know, it makes me feel I'm really self-conscious of how Bad that must seem to people that probably don't understand what it feels like Yeah, they wouldn't necessarily understand. Well, you're there. Why can't you just go in? Yeah, I get that I know and we've all we've all probably had to struggle with that a little bit here and there But and you make a really good point avoidance Really is what fuels the perpetuation of this problem. It really is right But I think it's probably important to say and then after a while some of the we've been trying to really keep these topics separate You know like episode by episode here, but they do all meld together in the end and read the article When you yeah I think Avoidance is what fuels it safety behaviors Make it worse in the end. They might get you through your day, but in the end they're not really moving you forward and so what it comes down to here is I think when we address avoidance the the difference with avoidance is you're avoiding the things those situations in those places Those people whatever it is that are going to possibly trigger anxiety and panic for you and don't make you uncomfortable Can I just say like maybe for me personally it started avoiding like what seemed bigger But just gradually I've avoided more and more and the the circle My comfort zone has just shrunk because I've just avoided like now I don't even go to my daughter's parents evenings sports days even though that's standing on an open field You know the avoidance has has shrunk my world. That's That's the worst part. Then that's that's the textbook progression Yeah, yeah, it's a textbook progression and I think you know probably just worth mentioning for two seconds here too that that's the hallmark of The difference between anxiety and anxiety disorder when your lifestyle begins to be modified and shrunk That's that's bam. That's where you've gone from because a lot of people have panic attacks And they just I had a panic attack, but they don't change their life over it So that's the hallmark avoidance and and increased avoidance and that lifestyle modification is the hallmark of when it has become a disorder a cognitively But I think the key here that I was going to talk about with the avoidance is Avoidance is a bad thing because it might make you feel better for the moment because you avoided that monster that you're afraid of but You don't avoidance doesn't have to end instantly So you don't have to go from being housebound to taking a trip around the world That that's not how you overcome avoidance. We overcome avoidance in little chunks So like with your dad in the hospital, you know, okay getting there is is one part of that Seeing the car park is one part of that getting out of the car would be the next part of that Walking up to the reception desk would be the next part of that and we we overcome avoidance through exposure and we'll talk about those things down the road and and incrementally Rebuilding the behaviors that we we've started to avoid doing So avoidance doesn't have to be overcome instantaneously in a day And I think that people get intimidated by that Yeah, yeah, I think so if you avoid the supermarket, you don't have to begin You don't have to go to the supermarket tomorrow. You really don't or today You have to start working on getting toward the supermarket and that's how we overcome avoidance So I I feel like this is one of the most confusing topics to people And I don't know if I'm I don't know if we're describing it that well, but I don't know It's just avoid it's avoiding every it's avoiding social situations. It's avoiding picking up the telephone It's avoid it. I don't know what about like avoiding Coping techniques. Yeah, that's like people avoid exercise. They avoid eating healthily That's true, too I have seen that as well because sometimes learning those coping techniques makes you feel worse initially a little bit Yeah, yeah, exercise is one of the biggest ones. I actually did two videos on that where yeah, yeah You know, you people were always told we should exercise will make us feel better But it might make us feel worse. So you have to learn to overcome that But I so I think If there's any takeaway from this particular episode It would probably be to tell people to really sit down at a quiet moment and take inventory of like, how are you actually dealing with the situation? What are you? What are you not doing? That's avoidance. And what are you doing? And are you actually Are you actually facing your fear or are you putting Shields in front of it with what you do with your means or your phone or only being around your mom or your dad or whoever Your safety safe person is because everybody's going to be so different with this topic People are people that go away and sit and think they're going to Find that they've got so many different safety Behaviors or crutches. I always like to refer to that's something for me Like the and you you brought this up many years ago when I was going out filming myself like walking the supermarkets or whatever And the camera becoming A safety behavior because I was all right every time I held that camera in front of me and walked around Whether it was because I was too I don't know. I didn't want to feel silly in front of a camera like putting it on youtube and looking like an idiot So something that camera became a safety behavior because I was all right every time I had it there And I remember you saying that many years ago And I actually because almost anything could be a safety behavior It doesn't even have to be directly related to A specific sensation or anything and I had that same thing happen when we first met And you know that that group of us that were sharing videos. Yes All of a sudden I found like well as long as I have the camera with me I can get out and do this And I had to learn to like nope this time you're going to go out and do it without filming and leave the camera home so This is a tough one like I said for people and I think probably the the main thing is if you have to say Because I have encountered people who say yeah, I have this problem But but I've learned to live my life If if any of that includes the phrase as long as Like I'm okay as long as I have my hands as long as I'm with my my you know my husband or my wife You know your goal is to try and get to the point where you never have to say as long as yeah Yeah, that's it. You shouldn't have to learn to live your life with something right? I can get to the supermarket as long as yeah Yeah, yeah, I can just get to the supermarket. So that's what we're going for So I also find that the the topic maybe ruffles feathers sometimes because I People sometimes you look at I I'm a feather ruffler I went with the start. I don't know what the starting salary for that is though. I've never really nailed it down I still haven't made any money feather ruffling Let's talk for a minute about some of the programs out there. We'll be careful We don't have to get into legal tangles with anybody, but okay. We were talking about that There's a bunch of programs out there right that you can buy people are peddling Some methods. Mm-hmm certain methods. Yes, and I think that's fine I think any tool that anybody who wants to try and avail themselves of is never bad. I'm trying to make judgment, but Many of them are based on trying on on safety type behaviors Yeah, yeah, I know a few in particular as well, but have been really focused on distraction Yes, whether that's a helpful thing. It's not really I don't know because we're going down the acceptance route. We don't want to distract ourselves from this fear We want to acknowledge the fear. Don't we that's the we're not trying to Like it's have a drink of water Because it's going to save you from Whatever's happening. Yes. No, and don't distract yourself from whatever's happening You know, except what's happening That live live it Those are really good points and they think it's many of the programs out there And I find that they're in two camps like a lot of the programs And I think it's probably good to talk about this during this particular They're all expensive They're all they are all expensive. I mean, you know, I'm a big Claire Weeks fan I've always have been You know, you can buy her books for literally under five dollars on amazon in the u.s And so I find that most of the programs I've encountered are either distraction based Or they are rehashes of the Claire Weeks stuff So you're either running from the fear or In forms of distraction or other little devices that sort of shield you from it And and let you get through it or you're actually facing the fear and that's the harder one It's the harder. That's the path that we're talking about here. Yeah, but I think it's the more lasting one also And then you also see certain Of the certain programs that say that it if it doesn't work for you. It's because you're not doing it, right? That's another it's not it's not very nice to hear that you're the problem You know, yes. Yeah, and we've seen that personally. You're not doing it. Yeah, you know There's nothing wrong with this program. Don't say it's bad. You just didn't do it, right? Yeah, yeah So I think safety behaviors and avoidance They're all around us and it's the sometimes the easier way to get through like I just I have to be able to pick up My kid from school So I'm going to find some way to do that and I think we both understand that we we have to find ways to function At the same time But in the end we should probably be trying to take steps to strip those away slowly So that in the end you can go pick up your kid from school without having to have any shield against it A suitcase full of sweets crisps means I'm telling you it can get a little extreme I know for a while this for me Yeah, yeah back Years ago when I was progressing nicely I was gradually just phasing out different things and then eventually like I'd be going out of the house And I'd realized that I'd forgotten my water, but it wouldn't it wouldn't spark Anxiety it was just a realization. Wow I've not come out of the house I've not even thought before I've left that I needed water and mints and all that Yeah, and that's a nice. That's a nice feeling when you start doing that and you then you realize that you've done it But it doesn't bring Oh god, I nearly swore then. Yeah. Oh dear. I forgot my water I nearly swore we're gonna get censored about to bleep you That's pretty funny, but I think that's true when when you begin to strip away your avoidance and strip away Your behaviors those suddenly the realization becomes a positive thing like look at me. I'm out without my mints as opposed to oh No, I never forgot my mints So, yeah, very cool. I thought we would ramble more, but I think we've done pretty well here. We haven't ramble too much on this one Yeah, yeah, I think if we just kept the video going and sat here all day We'd think of certain times that we've avoided or certain safety behaviors, you know, so millions millions If people want to share their avoidance Their safety behaviors do it in the comments because there's gonna be somebody else that reads a comment and is able to relate No doubt about it. Right. Hey, I do that or I didn't think anybody else. Yeah. Yeah happens to be it's always helpful for sure All right, I think this was pretty good Not too bad for winging it. All right next time. Yeah, that's good next time. We're gonna talk about symptoms I know it's a big topic Reacting to symptoms and how that got my post it notes and my pants Ready to go carry them around with me Anyway, all right, as usual you can find billy on youtube youtube.com slash anxiety united Yeah, youtube.com slash that anxiety guy Whatever look at the links wherever you happen to be And and let us hear it. You have comments We'll answer them the best we can we'd be getting comments on these videos. We've been getting quite a few Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of the ones on my channel were relating to symptoms or quite a few of them were and people asking Can we discuss why this happens or why? Yeah, so We'll see we may go down that road at some point sure it might take it takes me a few days sometimes to realize I have comments, but I will get around to like at least approving them so people can talk Anyway, all right. Thanks for tuning in. See you guys next time. Yes indeed. All right later folks