 And my bad takes they'll be coming at them. Well, good evening, good evening, good evening. We're here to talk about. Are you struggling right now? That's just a man. I don't know how to start lives like I don't. Welcome back to World Hubbers. Wait, that's not the channel. Yeah, I don't have any merch that goes to charity. Just it's just me talking. You're doing a great job. Thank you. Thank you. I'd like to introduce yourself, Alex. I don't think you've ever been on my channel before. I haven't. In fact, I haven't even done YouTube in what feels like seven years. Hi, guys, I'm Alex. As you can tell by my name, I am making fun of myself for not being on here more often. But yeah, here to talk to more sunny. I can't wait for all the people searching YouTube for a channel called You Still Do YouTube. I'm sure something will come up. I don't know what it will be. But he looks so different on the other hand. Oh, man. Yeah, so we've talked about at least one of these books before. I think maybe in passing. I think it was when we were talking about Red Rising that like in passing, we mentioned that Sun Eater kind of it's reminiscent. Literally the same thing. Yeah. OK, so where do you want to start? Do you want to start with the the ones that you did love, which is all the other stories? Or do you want to start with the actual good book, which is Ash is a man. I feel like we can't just start with the good book. Yeah, but also like, I mean, it's so far in the series that I kind of feel like having no spoilers is silly. But then also like, should we have like no spoilers for like 10 minutes or something? Why not for anyone that's like all the Red Kingdoms of Death and is like, I want to see if it's worth it to read the next one. Well, if you're four books in already and you hate it, why are you still reading? Which is why, though, like when I look at ratings on mostly good reads, but anywhere that aggregates readings when a series progressively gets higher ratings, when people are like, oh, that means each book is better than the last one. I'm like, no, it's because people that don't like it like fall off. Yeah. And so the last one has the highest rating yet. Yeah. So you're not going to have as like a wider sample. Yeah. Certainly, there's some people that will be like, I started a series and I'm going to finish it all 10 books, even though I've hated it from the first page. And you're like, live your life. That makes you happy. It could be like those weirdos that read Dresden that read it and loved it all the way up to Battleground and then something happened in Battleground and then they retroactively gave the entire series one stars because now they hate the entire thing. Like that does sound like me reading Dark Dawn. So I can't without having read it myself, I can't fully judge people for that because like, well, the reason why we're dark down that happened with no spoilers is that like it's one of those where like if the whole series is building to the answer to the question and then you find out the answer and it's stupid that you're like everything that led up to it is now stupid because this goes nowhere. Yeah, I guess I kind of feel like that about Game of Thrones. It's tough to go back and watch because I'm like at some point this is going to start to be bad. Yeah, anyway, the dragon did help to like yes, it did. Yes, I mean, spoiler free thoughts, obviously it's the technically second half of whatever book four would have been called. I don't know what working title existed before it was split by its publisher since paper. Yeah, was it one of these two titles or was it neither of these two times? I have no idea. Genuinely. I don't know. Kingdoms of Ashes. Exactly, of Death of Man. It's a working title. But yes, I mean, we had Kingdoms of Death, which was obviously super dark and not fun in a lot of places because it was. I did reread Kingdoms of Death right before Ashes of Man because I like kind of. Did you like any more? Yeah, I definitely did. But it's also like partly because like stuff that like the pacing I thought was like quite off. And so then when you go into it's kind of like kind of makes sense though, right? Well, it's also like when you go on a road trip and like the way they are always feels longer than the way back because like, you know, the road this time. So it's not like I don't know how far we are. I can't tell. So like Kingdoms of Death is like, well, I know what the beats are. So then like I wasn't sitting there going like, is this going to be this forever? So I'm like, I know exactly how far this is. So then I could just kind of go for the ride. And I was like, no, I liked that. That was good. Yeah. I mean, between Kingdoms of Death and Ashes of Man without spoilers, like they tonally they feel very different because I read Ashes of Man and I had it reminding me the most of demon in white, just the structure and dealing with the emperor and just like what was going on as opposed to Kingdoms of Death, which is more of like a howling dark in a way or is very focused on the Cielson. And you learn a ton more about them. And it was just saying these books are just reprises. There is an exact story. They're just like, they're just recycled material for thousands of pages. Now I love all these books. I don't think Ashes of Man is my favorite by any stretch. I still think it's demon in white and then probably howling dark and then maybe this Kingdoms of Death. And then- I really hate Empire of Silence. I actually love Empire of Silence, but this was the series where it was like, book one was great, book two and three just got better and better. And then Kingdoms of Death was like, I didn't quite love it as much. And I feel like because I didn't read any of the side stories until this, I guess, because I didn't even read half the ones in the other book except for Lesser Devil. I know I didn't read them and we were supposed to talk about them. I wish I had read a bunch of these and all the other ones before we got to Kingdoms of Death because I would have cared more about certain things that happened, which I feel like I was just missing a lot of the characterization for anyone not named Hager and Ivanka. So yeah, I mean, Ashes of Man was great. It is obviously the second half of whatever book four was going to be and now he's doing six and seven, right? Did he officially say there's going to be seven? So I kind of agree with that. It would be monstrously long though, but I do feel like you could cut some stuff out to make it be one book. Because reading it back to back like I did, I basically experienced it as one book because I just, rest soon as I finished my reread of Kingdoms of Death, I just immediately started Ashes of Man. Because Ashes isn't, is what like, it's not even 500 pages for the actual story, right? It's like right at 500 and the Kingdoms of Death is probably slightly longer or about the same. So I mean, he could have done a thousand page book, but he probably could have done like a 800 page book. Wasn't the reason that they split it was because like the literal like paper shortage, like they couldn't print a thousand page book. So like, yeah, he very really could have done a thousand page book and probably would have. Yeah, if they had let him, I'm sure he would have. But yeah, I mean, overall the book is still great. Like I have very- We got more cover art out of this deal instead of just having one cover. Including whatever the hell Audible does with their covers. Oh my God, literally the worst. They just send a description to an AI and it just figures it out. We've seen AI art lately and don't blame AIs for whatever's going on in Audible. Really old outdated AI. I think it's an intern that only Yos had to use paint. It's the same coding that created Goodreads, but for art, basically. I mean, Goodreads is owned by the same people that own Audible, so it checks out. Exactly, see? Connecting the dots here. Ashley Mann was good though. I loved it probably. It obviously made me sad because all these books do because it's not a happy series by any means. And I did finally get some more answers as to like where I think like, we already know how it ends, right? But I think initially like reading Empire of Silence, I was like, okay, so you know the ending is he kills the Cielson and Emperor and billions of people. But I was always thinking like, well, is it gonna be he just turns into a shithead or is it like he has to end the war? Or like, is it really like, he is kind of a good guy, but he understands like what has to happen for this to result in the ending that we know is coming. And I feel like Queen of Mid Ashes does a good job of telling you a little bit more into like where this is going and why it's gonna happen. So I feel like now I kind of understand between that and like how this book ended, I'm like, okay, I kind of understand now why it's gonna happen. You see a path to the end. Yes, it's clearer now. The clouds are parting a little bit. But then there's other stuff that remains like entirely mysterious still. Like what? Like like quiet. He's actually secretly really loud. What? Well, Vorgosus is a planet. So I don't know if I understand. But do you mean something on Vorgosus? Like the technology from Vorgosus? Is that how you mean nurses? I don't know. What were your overall thoughts on Ash's man? I guess especially reading it right after rereading Kingdoms of Death. Yeah, I mean they flow well together. And especially because like a lot of the, I mean, because, well actually Ash is a man. It's just about the only Sun Eater book. You know, it is the only Sun Eater book that picks up right where the previous one left off because all the other ones are like, it's been a hundred years. So you're like, what? Uh-huh. So like that is like, yeah, then you're coming because for that being the case then the beginning of each book is disorienting and then also spend some time orienting you to being like, okay, this is where I've been for the last hundred years is what's been going on. So Ash is a man is like, well, you know what just happened. So let's carry on. So having just written Kingdoms of Death, you're like, yeah, that's fresh in my mind. Like, but this is what happened. And these were, okay, we're doing spoilers. I mean, again, it makes sense though because it's like this was supposed to be one book. So logically, because it's not a song of ice and fire where there's massive cast that you're jumping between. So like Feast for Crows and Dance were like literally two separate books in different cast. This was just like a direct continuation because that probably would have been the next logical chapter based on how it ended. So yeah, I mean, overall I liked it a lot. I think it's like third maybe in my favorites. I don't even know how to read. I mean, I just, I think I will always like Empire of Silence the best. I guess I'll find out when the last books are published that might change my mind. But like, I still like everything that comes after it but Empire of Silence was just that like partly because it's like your introduction to everything. So you're just like my first wow. And then the stuff with the Cielson and the end of that first book was just so impactful to me. Like nothing has been that impactful. Yeah. What do you, Karn's ship is Vorgosos? No, he's, Cigar is on Vorgosos but I don't think the entire planet is the ship. Unless I miss remembering that, I don't know. I mean, didn't Karn like reform on a ship off of Vorgosos to escape? Yeah, he's split into two. Yeah, so like... He's in like two separate bodies now based on the ending of book two. Which I really thought would like come into the story more like right away. Yeah. Like after when we finished Howling Dark, I was like, well, that's gonna cause problems. And then it like kind of like, I legit forgot if that happened until it was brought up again in these books. And I was like, cause they do mention, I think it's an ashes of man, they mentioned that about. So like when that was mentioned again, I was like, oh yeah, what happened with that? You're gonna do something with that. He mentions all of it. He mentions Karn, he mentions the brethren. He mentions, obviously mentions the quiet. I mean, he talks about all of it, but like the story in the plot doesn't directly interact with that as much as I thought it was going to like immediately upon the end of Howling Dark and then the ending of Demon of White. Like Kingdom of Death is kind of like a, it's almost like a separate thing is happening and all that is just kind of like in the background. And we don't know exactly where it's gonna go yet. But books great. All these books kick ass. Honestly, it's outside from Red Rising. It's my favorite ongoing sci-fi until Lightbringer comes out. So. And then Lightbringer will ruin it all. Well, we have two more books in that series too. So we'll see who wraps it up the best. Or is this theory is that the next book, Hadrian is getting Karn's ship and the last book is him eating the sun. He's literally just gonna turn into a giant and eat the entire sun. And that's how he kills everyone. Now I'm picturing him as like one of the, what did they call the Titans of like, you know, like from Greek. Oh, I was just picturing attack on Titan. Oh, well that, I mean, that's why they're called Titans. But that's fine too. A brother and P of Enoble. If that's a thing that would be super weird. Yeah, I kind of doubt it. All the text would just be bold. It would be so weird. What'd he be talking to? Karn? Anyway, do we want to get into spoilers? We both like this book and we're also going to talk about these ones, which I'll give it this. All these books are damn beautiful. So I'm glad I paid for them. Some of the stories are just kind of like, eh. Well, so some of them were like, I didn't like just cause I was like, what was the point of that? And other ones I didn't like, cause I was like, well, I know what the point of that was and I don't like that that was the point of this. It has to do with Catholicism. Yeah. Or also like Volka's story. It wasn't even Catholicism. I was just like, why is Volka like a complete idiot? Like the entire time in the story is like, what did you think was going to happen? You moron. I thought you were the smart one. What are you doing? That one was kind of disappointing cause I was kind of excited to read a Volka POV. And then I was just like, oh, all right. I did like two of them though. Especially cause she is kind of always the smart one. And it's just like, I mean, yeah. She, I mean, even within that story, she literally says like, she can't forget anything. She has like a literal perfect memory. So, I don't know. I guess her technology wasn't working that day. That's what that story, I know what that story was like trying to get at, you know, the sort of like moral conundrum, blah, blah, blah. But like it's ruined by the fact that you're like, I can't really like entertain this moral conundrum cause mostly I'm thinking about how dumb she was in this story. Yeah. Which ones? Did you like any of them? Probably. Oh, I did like the last, the like history of the family. The very like, just the Marlowe's a brief history of Marlowe. Cause like we haven't really, we don't really know much about the Marlowe's. No, I was hoping that we would get more of like that in like actual text, especially after Lester Devil was a thing. I was like, oh, are we actually gonna like see the rest of his family and get them involved? Or not. I mean, yes, I mean, it was cool to learn about them there. Good intentions was the Valka story. It was kind of just whatever. I liked the first story, the titular story, Queen of Midashes until the end. Yeah. That like last couple of pages where Hadrian is like, justice has to be retributive. Justice has to be like punitive or punitive. I was like, and he's like, you know, there's people out there that don't think that, you're wrong. You're just wrong. It has to be. And I was just like, I don't like this. What I did like about, which by the way, and for devils, you get more Crispin Pute. So like you get two stories about like the Marlowe's in the Switch School. What I did like about Queen of Midashes though, is one just, it felt more like it was a continuation of actual writing from the main series. Whereas a lot of the other stories are literal, just like one off side missions, where like you're following the red company and they're just on a quest or. I feel like if you're working on a project, these are the bits that you like snipped off to like, kind of. Like it wouldn't really like fit in the main story. There was the one with a, what was it, Fire in the Sky or was it the Dragon Slayers? I think it was Dragon Slayers. Where they're just like on a rescue mission and they're just fighting Cielson. It was like a mini action movie. It was like, it was cool, but like. I kept waiting for there to be like a point to the story. Yeah. What I liked about Queen of Midashes though is like, him realizing that the Empress, basically just firebomb to our own people to get rid of this. Yeah, I really liked the story, honestly, until it got to Hadrian telling us how justice be. And I was like, that kind of killed it. She didn't have to die though. I mean, fine, but I love that they're like, every sci-fi that mixes with fantasy just finds reasons to use swords, which is fantastic because he was like, you have to die by the sword and not like a plasma sword or, what is it, high matter? He's like, it can't be a high matter sword. It just has to be like sharp steel. Like, why? Like, cool. Metal, literally. Yeah, that's true. So I mean, yeah, like finding out her, this person in charge of this planet, like nuked her own people to kill the Cielson, him learning about that and then like having that one-on-one with her and her trying to manipulate him and him being like, no, I can't. Well, also, yes, this is a fiction book, but it's also like the fifth book in a series, so. But, actually, Ash is a man, is historical nonfiction. No, it's future fiction. So like, we actually, we have the lowdown on what's coming in the distant, that's actually how a book of the new son is, as Jade Wolf has like translated- It's supposed to be like actual, yeah, yeah, yeah. A text from the future, which like I was also just about to bring up the book of the new son for a different reason, because I'm currently rereading it like right now, or like, yeah, in January, I read Shadow of the Torturer, and in January, I read Ash as a man, and Queen of Mid-Ashes, and Severian, and Red Rising, you're just getting them all done at the same time. It's a very sci-fi, heavy time for me, but Severian in Book of the New Son is a torturer, but like part of being a torturer is like also doing executions with a sword, where like, and so like that's like a big part of it, and he does this whole explanation of like how you have to stand in the shadow, or like cast a shadow, and like how to wield the sword, and just like reading Hadrian's like execution in Queen of Mid-Ashes, I was just like, okay, Severian. It's like a sci-fi trope at this point, but I love it, because Dune does the same shit too, where it's like, there's no reason that people use melee weapons. Well, it's also, it's partly because like, arguably more logically speaking in the future, it's just gonna be drones and nukes, and like that's not fun to read about. Like we read about characters fighting, and so like they have to make a reason for there to be fighting instead of just like nuke them. Yeah, no, I mean, that is why it's exciting. I mean, that's, they do it in all, like laser swords are cool, sure. So unless you're gonna go the Star Wars route, and people just deflect everything with lightsabers. Laser swords are cool. Like you have to find a reason for people. I mean, even lightsabers, like people fight hand-to-hand, like lightsaber battles. It's, sci-fi will always find an excuse to have a sword fight. That's just the way it is. I mean, the reason Star Wars does it is because Dune does it. Yes, that's the reason everybody does it. But it's cool. Well, ever since Frank Herbert was like, no, you can write in the future, install a sword fight. So I was like, you can? Yes, okay, let's write it by the future. Cause swords are loud guys, we can do it. It's like, they took medieval fantasy and just put it in sci-fi, because there's like royal families, there's a god emperor in this and Dune. And I don't know if... You should have to say like, it makes a little bit more actual sense in Book of the New Sun, that the future has like swords and stuff because it's dying earth. And like, they actually don't have very good like technology around. It's not like they have the technology for nukes, but they're just doing swords instead. Like they, it's like medieval times come again because they don't have stuff. As opposed to Red Rising and Sun Eater where they're just like, we're literally populating the entire multiple galaxies. Like we can go into fugue for hundreds of years, we can time jump back and forth between time, but we are going to fight with swords. Yes, that's good. We still have a king. Cause it's connected to Sid Arthur. Yes. You're like, gotta have King Arthur in it. Otherwise you're not a legit king. It's great. Yeah, so Queen of Medeshes was good. I liked that one a lot. There was one of them that was really good. Well, also what I liked about Queen of Medeshes is like the way that when he shows up and he like goes down into the like tunnel, like cavern to meet her. And the whole time when he's like, the vibes are off. I don't know why, but she's something is off. And so I just felt like that story, it did have good vibes, like it, or I mean bad vibes, but you know what I mean, like it did vibes well where I was like, yeah, I'm stressed, like something, what is off? What I want to know, like there's something we don't know, there's something up what is happening. So like, I think he did that really well, setting the like tone and ambiance of like, there's something suspicious. Now, fire in the sky. It was a fun little like six page read, but like. That's the one about their little like killing the Cielson mission, right? That no, so fire in the sky was the like brother and sister that their village is getting raided by Cielson and she gets captured and then rescued. And she just like goes off with a gun to go save her brother, which like, I guess if you're just writing a random short story, it's kind of cool, but like, that's one, that's one that I read. I was just like, huh, all right. One where I read and I kept expecting there to be like a twist or something. I thought it was going to be Hadrian that like came to rescue them. And then it was just like a regular legionary and he was just like, here's my gun. Go find your brother. I was like, all right, that's fine. Cool. I did enjoy kill the king though because the extra salarians are freaking weirdos. I feel like we don't see enough of that in the main series. It's always just I mean, have they been in it since like the second book? What was the one with which book was the like, the masked man or whatever it was? Yeah, that was howling dark. Yeah. So I mean, I, that was the last time I really like saw them, isn't it? Yeah. I think they just talk about them sometimes. Like whatever had been in kingdoms of death at the very beginning as like part of that planet, but they weren't like a big part of it. They were just Cielson. Yeah. They weren't extra salarians. Okay. So they get talked about a bunch, but they're not in it. That's disappointing. Since we're doing spoilers, at some point we're going to have to talk about how we get brought kingdom of heaven back into it. You're the only person on this track. So you go ahead and tell me how kingdom of heaven. Cause he, it's the exact same thing that he did in empire of silence, like the same part of kingdom of heaven. Like there's this line from kingdom of heaven. I'm going to tell you this line from kingdom of heaven. Yes. Space Jerusalem. This exact same like line that he used in empire of silence. It's a line that sets up a payoff later in kingdom of heaven. And he used this like initial line in empire of silence. I was like, okay, well I know where that's from. But in Ash's event, it was the same line with the same payoff that you get in kingdom of heaven for that line in empire of silence. Where like in that first book slash kingdom of heaven when he was like, your quality will be known among your enemies before ever you meet them. And now five books later it turns out he was actually like the prince or whatever. Is that his title, prince? The Jadian. Oh yeah. And he's like, oh, you were in disguise. And that was actually like, you weren't the servant, you were the prince and like your servant was disguised as the prince. That's literally what happens in kingdom of heaven. He fights this guy who like he thinks is the real guy and his servant is like, your quality will be known among your enemies before ever you meet them. And then later he's like, oh, that guy was your servant. You were the actual guy and like literally the same. I was like, are we doing this right now? Well, you're the only one that remembers kingdom of heaven and we get upset about that. I remember kingdom of heaven. The audacity. What did you think about knowledge? I thought that one was kind of pointless. It was literally Hadrian thinking for like six pages. Oh yeah. That one really really makes it was also kind of like religious and yeah, but it was like not even like a story. Cause that was like Gina and was randomly in it at the end. Cause he was literally waiting for her and was just like pondering for five pages. Then he's like, do you know what? All right, let's go. That's quite annoyed with that story. Like that's okay. Sure. Yeah. So I mean the short stories are hit or miss. I thought the short stories overall, like there were some misses, but I thought that the lesser devil collection had more hits because they're like the red company and they were just a little bit more. Well, also I really loved the one that was like a court trial thing in that collection where there was somebody that was like augmented and like her daughter like didn't want her mom to be taken away, but like they don't allow you to have that kind of augmentation. Remember that one? It's in the lesser devil collection. I understand. I don't remember. Okay. I like that one. Cause like we always hear about how like you're not allowed to have augmentation and they're really against it. How bad the chantry is, yeah. Yeah. And to like see that actual fallout as a court case where it's like a kid being taken away from their parents because they think that's better for the kid than to stay with a parent that has all this augmentation and like, are they even human? I thought that was like really good to like actually explore this thing we hear about. Yeah. It just, I feel like they don't ever really bring it up because Hadrian at this point is kind of untouchable and like the chantry just isn't really a part of his story. Cause like what are they going to chase him across the entire. Except for when briefly an ashes of man though when he's around the emperor and like now we're back in court politics such as you and your ship doing whatever the hell you want. Well, that's why I thought like, well, that's one of the main reasons it reminded me so much of demon and white because whenever you're around the emperor you have the politics, you have the chantry like as kind of like a, they weren't really in it but like you have them as like a threat of like, oh, you can hand me over to the chantry and that's what he thought was happening. Well, and this was also like why I thought it was like really good that I reread the kingdoms of heaven, kingdoms of heaven, kingdoms of heaven, kingdoms of heaven right before. How was it rereading? When they're like suspicious of Hadrian and going to interrogate him after what he has just been through and they're like, we think you like failed on your mission on purpose and they're like, you know, going to torture slash interrogate him. And he's like, do you know what we went through? Like how fucking dare you? And like, I mean, you'd feel that way regardless reading it, but having literally just experienced kingdoms of death right before. And he's like, do you know what I just went through? I'm like, yes, I do. I was there yesterday. Like it was a lot. Yeah. Lots of people died for him. It was that shit that he was like, the dude that was so mad at him for Hadrian saving him. And he was like, I should have been there. He's like, you would have died. He's like, you don't know. I could have saved. He's like, no, dude, literally everyone is dead. You would have also- He does come around and then something like a swell. Yes. Come on. Knocked him out. That was great. Poor Hadrian. Hadrian gets arrested again in this one. Almost assassinated. Yeah, that was great. Because they used to be like a running joke. I felt like throughout the books, like he kept getting arrested. And I was like, how many times are these kids going to get arrested? They're always in chains. Yeah, I mean, so you get the start of the book. Obviously, his actual goodbye to Gibson because that's where they've been chilling for. I mean, they were there for several years. They just like time jump didn't really happen because it's not like all the other books where there's 80 to 100 years in between them. And they've just been doing the same domestic stuff. The emperor did actually dump in this. Yeah. I was I mean, kind of like when I was talking about the Volca story in Queen of the Ashes, when the emperor was like pulling his ship at the end of Ashes of Man, I was like, what did you think was going to happen? Right. Like you literally could have waited a month and things would have gone slightly better. Like you were currently like all of your plans are like in the hundreds of years because of like how far you have to travel. You couldn't wait a month. Like, are you fucking kidding me? And he had to do that. He did the House of Dragons saying where it's like, I dare you to say the word you're about to say, and then he says it. And he's just like, boy, no, turn it back now. I'm going to kill all of you. It just I didn't like that it felt contrived. And like it wouldn't have felt contrived if like they had waited a little bit longer and like it would be more reasonable for the emperor to think that Hadrian should have got over it by now. Yeah. Like, and Hadrian being Hadrian wouldn't have gotten over it even in 100 years. So like if he had given him the emperor should have known that. Like you're pretty familiar with Hadrian as a person by now. Yeah. And so like they literally could have had the exact same scene and it would be believable that Hadrian would be just as upset as he is on day one, like on day 100, but it would be reasonable for the emperor to expect Hadrian by day 100 to have calmed down a little bit. And the fact that he doesn't, you'd be like, well, this doesn't feel contrived, but it does check out. Yeah. I mean, ultimately he's still the emperor. So like he does still kind of feel that way too, though, where he's just like, she's just Tavrosi. Hadrian was like, bitch, what? What'd you say? It's like, even if he thinks that you're like, the emperor is pretty smart and pretty good at handling delicate situations. Like there's no way he doesn't know. Even if he thinks that there's no way he doesn't think that's going to upset Hadrian to hear that in that moment. They can, you can tell her when he's gotten over it, they're like, it was just, I know you were really upset about it there for a bit, but she was just Tavrosi. It's like, you can see how upset he is right now. Like, even if you think it's ridiculous that he's upset, you know he's upset and you know how he be. Yeah. I mean, literally before that, like he was kind of like trying to talk him down. And I don't know, maybe it just wore on him because he was like, dude, I'm literally trying to save you right now. And also she's just worthless. So, you know, it's just because, yeah, I mean, it's kind of like we've said before, like when, was it in demon in white? When Alexander overhears the conversation that that whole thing felt so contrived? It's like those moments where I'm like, you don't even have to make it that contrived. Like, yeah, you could have these moments and have the same outcome where they would feel less like you made this happen to create drama. So that kind of was confirmed. It was this, I'm like mixing my brain up now. It was this book where they like straight up say Alexander was trying to kill him, right? Yeah, that's what I thought. A little bastard. I haven't talked to him in a book and he's still trying to murder me. He's Lysander. He's not as he's not as prevalent as Lysander, so he can't possibly be as annoying. But that's who he reminds me of all the time. If they if next book we get an Alexander POV, you know, we won't tell you in the story and I'll say it. God, I'm going to be so mad when I open up Lightbringer and I have to read Lysander. But his chapters are always so good. I know they're so well done, but he's a piece of shit. Anyway, maybe. I mean, it's kind of setting that up, right? That he'd be the next emperor. But I mean, unless the current emperor is going to step down or get murdered. I mean, that's kind of what they were setting up in this book. So I thought if it was going to happen, it would happen by the end of Ashes where he doesn't get off planet. Yeah. And we were setting up the fact that Alexander would have to take over. But because that didn't happen, it's like, well, now it can never happen. You had your chance story. Yeah. So I mean, to the point of Hadrian killing an emperor, though, is it going to be Alexander? Is it going to be current emperor? What's his name? William. Now I'm just thinking of the Night's Tale. I mean, me too. That's literally what I thought. There's so many Williams. It's such a common name. And I was like, the Night's Tale. Man, so he's going to kill Alexander then probably, right? I would. Yeah. I mean, I feel like. So how does how does all Bill die then? He's really old. Is he? I guess he's been the emperor for a long time. Like Hadrian keeps commenting on how the emperor is trying to extend his reign by going to Fugue all the time. Yeah. Which is kind of what his dad did. It was also, I guess it was a little bit weird that the emperor didn't, like, think to not mess with Hadrian, considering that whole conversation of like the emperor literally thinks that Hadrian is like the god emperor, reborn or whatever. Which can we talk about that part of the book? Because, like, I frankly am still, like, kind of confused about what we learned from the emperor. Be like, well, here's what's actually been going on. You're going to. Here's the, like, Illuminati secret of, like, what's actually going on. I was, like, kind of still confused. I mean, so that whole conversation, but who was the little, like, was it a homunculus or whoever the little, like, dude that was trying to talk. Very off the ledge. And Hadrian was just, like, like, I'm. I'm as as advertised and never was, like, dude, he's literally like the god emperor reincarnated. And his little buddies just like, no, he's, like, stopping them. It's not what's happening. I don't know what, like, the reveal was just, like, the emperor is basically just, like, pulling the strings, I guess, or, like, what I can't remember exactly what that conversation. But, like, the emperor was telling him all this stuff that, like, Hadrian had, like, he and Valga had been piecing together, like, about the quiet. And the emperor was like, oh, there's stuff that you don't actually know about the quiet that I can tell you. I don't know. The emperor is in on it. He's full of shit. He's had some, like. But, like, I don't, narratively, I don't understand yet, like, why it would matter, like, if he knew a bunch of stuff and was hiding it from Hadrian, but, like, to what end? It just felt very, like, Hadrian was, like, very mind blown about everything. And I was like, Hey, Hadrian, my mind is not right blown right now. Please explain why your mind is blown. I don't know what's happening. I feel like I highlighted some of this. No, I highlighted, like, the entire section of, like, him not wanting to kill the emperor or, like, trying to suicide himself, basically. But where was it? They also went full game of thrones and, like, did a bunch of titles, which I thought was funny. Maybe laugh. Did a bunch of. For the second time, then, William, the 23rd House firstborn son of earth, guardian of the solar system, king of Avalon and prince and parod of all realms of man. Protect your other realms. Come on now. He's basically Khaleesi. Exactly. Um, I'm trying to find it, though, because I know there was like, I had it in a bunch of that where they also did for Hadrian. Lord Hadrian, Alexander, Marla, Victorian, supreme commandant of the Imperial Red Company, Knight commander of the Royal Victorian Order, bear of the grass crown, holder of the order of merit, hero of the empire. He's Dan. Love it. Um, I'm trying to find it, but because I know I highlighted a bunch of that of, like, where or was it? It was, like, more in the middle. Yeah, I mean, because I was near the end, so. Everybody just read the book now for a minute. It'll be reading sprints. I'll find it. We'll come back to that. I just opened to chapter 27, an unexpected friend. It opens. Is he dead? Yes, I mean, I'll find that part in a second, but the whole, like, back and forth with the emperor is always good. Before we get back to that point, though, it's kind of nice having the emperor in the story because, like, Hadrian is always, like, then, like, there's no one, like, above him most of the time. And it's really fun seeing him get schooled. Yeah, because he's always, like, the smartest person I do. And not just the smartest, but also, like, the highest ranking. So, like, the people who serve him, like, he's in charge. He gives the orders. Like, it's like, you can't upset him. And so when it's the emperor, it's like, oh, Hadrian, like, now you got to eat some crow. You have to scrape and bow. Yeah. Well, it depends on where in that conversation that comet comes from, because by the time that he, like, struck the emperor, like, now it's just you're the emperor, like, he has to die now. Like, you don't hit the king of the world and get away with it. Like, that's just a punishable by death kind of thing. And I think at that point, he was still trying to be, like, like, everybody calm down. He's grieving, even though I don't know why, because she's just have Rosie. And then he was like, all right, I'm done. OK, yeah. I mean, this it was that the emperor wanted. To go kill the Cielson gods with Hadrian. Yeah. Mm hmm. I just felt like I wasn't clicking for me like what more information he had about the quiet that he was offering, like he was like, oh, you have show me your notes. I'll show you my notes. You know, like, yeah, here's a more complete picture. I was like, I don't feel like I know more about the quiet now that I did before. But I feel like I'm supposed to know more about the quiet than I did before. Maybe. I still don't know what the quiet is. I mean, it's something. So. I don't know how you would kill it. Unless there's just a very quiet man on a distant planet somewhere. He's like, I am the quiet kill. This is the steel. This is the way. All right, I'll find it eventually, anyway. So every book for the last three books, probably because we knew that Valca was not going to be there at the end, because he mentioned it. Times, you dad. He mentioned it pretty early on, though. I forget which book, whether it was Emperor's Islands or Howling Dark, where he like the first it might have been the first time when he's talking about like the different like futures that he saw. But he knows that in his like current like when he's writing this, I'm pretty sure he tells us very early on that like Valca is not with him. It's like, you knew at some point she was going to be gone. When someone got mad at me for apparently spoiling it, because I said that we lose someone in this book. And they were like, oh, my God, it's like. Sorry, could have been anyone. There's so many characters. He was like, well, everyone else is dead. I was like, I'm sorry, you read into that. But how did you feel about the whole like the whole mission that they were on and then how we lost Valca? Because I feel like he intentionally did it as like a it was super sudden and like off screen kind of thing. So I almost didn't even think she was dead. But then the next sentence, he was yeah. And she was dead for sure. It was like when that you're right, like because we know nobody know death, right? So until we got that like present. He was like, and then that was like the last day I ever saw her. I was like, oh, OK, so she's gone. But yeah, because she's just exploded off screen. I was like waiting for confirmation. Yeah, because she's like he's almost thought she was dead so many times. And I was like, but the reason I thought she was probably dead was because she wanted to make babies. So that was very sudden. I see as I started talking about happy shit, I was like, oh, you're definitely because up until that, like they kept hitting at her. She was like basically doing the whole like one last ride. Like we just got to do this one last thing, like, no, I'm going with you. I'm like, OK, there are so many times where she's either just going to catch a stray bullet or a Cielson is going to come in and kill her. And then she doesn't. And as soon as she was just like for seeming like I don't know why she wants kids now, but because she's about to die. That's the reason. But like her as soon as that happens, I'm like, you're like you have to die now because now you're talking about like settling down and running away and having a family like you're definitely dead, which also like aside from how obvious it is that she's about to die when like out of nowhere, she starts talking about making babies. And it's like, I'm sorry, why? But it's also like I'm sorry, why? Because it's like Valca is Tavrosi and like this whole time we were like her culture is different from Patreons and like neither is right, neither is wrong. He's kind of like weirded out by her. She's kind of weirded out by him, but they kind of like found a happy middle and that now like right before she's like, I want to be a stay at home happy housewife for you. I've seen the light and I want to be an ideal woman for you and make babies. And I was like, Valca, yeah. I mean, I have to say I've defended the relationship for books now. That was one of the parts that I like didn't care for, because I thought it was kind of just like you didn't even need to do that. Like you could still kill her like Valca would do that. She wouldn't. They've been together for like hundreds of years now. Yeah. And if it was the worst part, like this is one of the unless she like kingdoms of death may have been a worse situation to say, hey, I want to get married and have kids because, but like with everything going on at this moment, like this is when you're going to be like, no, like we need to have a family and run away. Like that's just like a bad romance trope. Like, yeah, that part didn't really make sense. And it was very that like, well, we don't this whole time we've been living together, but like we don't truly love each other until one of us is like, let's make a ring on it. Yeah. Not just we're going to ring on it, but make children that you're like, that's how you know that we truly love each other because we want to make like genetic copies of ourselves. With a half cyborg and a lab grown baby who has been alive for 1200 years. It like maybe if it had been a thing where like Hadrian was like pressuring her all these hundreds of years. I was like, I really want kids. I really want kids. And if she was like, you know what, Hadrian? I still think this is dumb as hell and I don't want to do it. But you know what? For you, I guess. I will make some babies because she was someone that was like, I have decided, Hadrian, I really want to make you up. I want to like carry your children for you. I was like, what is going on? Yeah. It was that one was kind of that moment was kind of lucky. Nothing happened to that vial of blood. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was a minor moment in a pretty good book. So I don't it's also like the finale for her character. And she goes up on this note of like, that's true. Huh? Like, I mean, I like was ready for her to die for all these books. So like, I'm always ready to see her die. So it was never going to be that like devastating. But then because it was all this emotional manipulation, one last ride. Well, that's where I was like, OK, she's going to die. I want to make babies. I was like, oh, my God, I really don't care that she's dead right now. I'm so annoying. At least they didn't do the Hadrian. I'm pregnant. And then she dies because then I guess. Yes, you're right. That would have been worse. The only way to make what we got worse was if it was that. Yeah. Oh, man. So that was like the one part I didn't really care about. I'm trying. I'm reading some of the. Like Emperor and. Like, he like went on a whole thing about like the God Emperor and how Hadrian is like the God Emperor reborn and all this shit that. Yeah, with him and my Sephiris. I guess how you say I know he calls him Nick at one point, which I just thought was kind of cute. Like the Emperor has a nickname for his little homunculus asshole, buddy. But what did the original God Emperor do? The one that she'd read and is like the rebirth of. Which is very much giving Jesus, but like. Yeah, I mean, I'd have to go back and reread it, honestly, to. To grasp that, but like. Like the God Emperor told Holy Catherine, it was the hidden one that was the source of all of his insight. Denied that he had any special power in himself, just as you. And then I don't know. He's just like he's fully believing that Hadrian. Is the God Emperor reborn, which is interesting. But then at the same time is like, get over your girlfriend. You slapped me, you die. It's like. What? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's still some unanswered shit. Like why the quiet brought Hadrian back? Why he expect the Americana? Yeah. I'm still not exactly sure where it's going with the the quiet and all this of like keeping Hadrian alive. Why is he so important still? And like, why would the Emperor think that he's the God Emperor reborn? But I mean, for the quiet, too, the way they're like, you have to live so that like I'm just like, but why Hadrian? It's like anyone in the universe would be as powerful as Hadrian if they were enabled to. He allowed them to resurrect. Yeah, I was like, Hadrian's not special. You're making him special because he's it's like circular logic. Like he's special because you've made him special, but you've made him special because you special like what? Yeah, I was he was saying for like, they've always been looking for extraterrestrial life, the quiet ones. Later, just the quiet, not because they only left buildings, but because they left no signals, no radio filling the void as their own ancient transmissions do. He's just saying like for centuries and eons before any of us were alive. Like basically revealed, right, that the Chantry like had already worked this stuff out about the quiet, like that's the reveal. But like I was hiding it forever. Part that I was confused about was when he described what it is the Chantry had found, because it sounded like what the Chantry had found him in covering up was a more complete understanding of things than even Hadrian and Valka had had that like not only do they know about it, but their cover up is a more complete knowledge of it that they're covering up. And that's what I was like. But what more did they know about it that Hadrian didn't know before? I don't know. I mean, other than they control the narrative. I wish this was true. Maybe the baby that Valka agrees to is the quiet. I don't even understand that. But that at least would make sense for why Hadrian is necessary because it's like specifically his genetic material. So Hadrian's genetic material actually started all things. Because what happens when you have a Hadrian make babies with a cyborg is you get the quiet. Oh, of course. But that's why the Chantry doesn't want people who are cyborgs, because they knew it would create the quiet. It all makes sense. This actually makes sense now. Yes, I mean. The Chantry didn't discover much about the quiet. It was the corpses of the Celts and gods they excavated. But the Celts and just thinks that the quiet is God, right? Like that's why they were they had like statues and temples to them because they just thought that that is God. Because doesn't Doriaka at the end of demon and white say that he was like going to kill the quiet? I don't remember. But they were like building. That's literally why they build like human sacrifice, like ritual statues and shit because it's supposed to be to the gods. But isn't their God want to destroy the quiet? That's what I thought they want to kill Hadrian. That's what I thought, unless I'm misremembering this, but. But like the emperor saying that they've known for like thousands of years, I guess the Chantry knew for thousands of years what all this was. And then the quiet is one of the gods the Chantry knows about. But there's heaps of them. Yeah, the Celts and gods are at war with the quiet. Yeah, that's why they want to kill Hadrian so bad because that's the enemy of their God. But the emperor also tells Hadrian, though, that once they figure out where Doriaka's God is, they're going to go kill it. So like the emperor wants Hadrian to go kill. The Celts and God, whatever that may be, which is probably the quiet. I'm confusing myself now, but it's also confusing to me because like the emperor is like, yeah, the quiet. That's what makes you the God emperor. But the Chantry is like, no, but the quiet is like not a thing. And it's like the Chantry supports the throne, but the throne is like driving its legitimacy from the quiet. Like, yeah, I'm so confused. Well, when we get the all the answers in the final book, it all makes sense. Well, I mean, I thought the ending was at least cool, though, when like after the whole, you know, throne room scene with the emperor and then he gets basically shuffled out onto a secret ship and then, you know, fucked off to the middle. It was a very, it was an ending that made me go, oh, I want to read what happens next. Like, this is very, because it's the first like, I mean, we've had a lot of like bombshells, but this is the first to me like true status quo change because like he has been a part of because he has been a part of the empire this entire time. And this is the first time he's got to be not. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's been like an imperial servant for he's no longer the emperor's man. No, so he, but that's it'll be interesting, too, because like he kept saying like him and Valka couldn't run away because the emperor would would find them. So it's like couldn't go make babies. So there's there's not many places they could go with this little rag tag group of mercenaries or whatever that's shuffling him to. Who are the people that he was taking him to? Is they talk at the end? It was the Jadian that yeah, so that whole. So it's going to be like an empire versus Jadian empire war in the next book and in the very kingdom of heaven. By book seven, he's just going to start calling everything. It's just going to literally turn into the crusades, isn't it? Is that what's going to happen? I mean, this whole thing has had very like crusades with a chantry, like has the one to kill Hadrian because of like religious reasons. It's basically making the entire Cielson war a crusade. I mean, it literally is, right? The Cielson gods are the watchers. So they're called. Yeah. Is that what the watchers were? I think so. There's just. Do we actually know what the watchers are, though? We don't know what anything is. I know we learned a bunch of shit and even a white because that was all the like wibbly wobbly time. Does it make any sense? We're going backwards and buildings are reshaping around us. And I can literally get a nuke dropped on me and survive. Which like the simultaneous, like we're going backwards while you're going forward, think, but also you can pick out any point of a possible alternate future and pull yourself out. It's just like combining too many mind breaking concepts at once where I'm like, what are you watch? Thank you. That's that is a an apt. An apt. Well, the quiet ones are the quiet is quiet. That's why we never hear from them. Is that where you're going with this? Mm hmm. Groundbreaking stuff, Liana. Thank you. I know you come to me for the deep analysis. So when you call them the quiet, why are they called the quiet? God never turns around slowly, takes his sunglasses off because you can't hear them. And then the book ends. That would have been great. This scenario, he's played by Lawrence Fishburn. Yes. Alternatively Nicholas Cage. I feel like we're just skipping so much shit, but I also feel like we hit like all the major points of what happened in this book. Like the major points were like, Hadrian gets the scoop from the emperor. Hadrian loses Valca, who wants to make babies. And Hadrian gets kicked out of the empire. Like that's like the whole book. Yeah, I mean, for the most part. And then the Jaddy and her back because they're going to go to war with the empire, I guess. So I mean, the Cielson is going to have to take some of them out, though, because the empire is gigantic and they outnumber everybody like 10 to 1. So yeah, it's pretty pretty unbeatable. I guess you're going to need a guy that like takes the nuclear option. I really destroy this time. It's kind of weird, though, because like, I mean, this isn't like Red Rising where it's taking place all in one solar system. So it's like, OK, so you ate us on. We've got many. Who cares? But what if it's the sun that's near the Cielson? That's the thing. But the Cielson are in more than one place. Yeah, but if they're. Yeah, but now they're under like one banner, essentially, because they brought all their world ships to that one place in Kingdoms of Death. So they're probably all going to poured in for a giant battle. And then a Hadrian is going to detonate the sun and kill everybody and then get put in jail by someone. Because he is not dead. He did it remotely. Wise man. He did it from jail. Well, I mean, he's not part of the empire anymore, so he can from outside of the empire. But he's literally in jail writing this, right? Like that's been established. He's like waiting for his execution. I think so. But I feel like it's always been phrased vaguely enough to where like that's not necessarily what's happening. It's just like heavily implied in a way that you could interpret it that way. I thought they straight up said that he was. Maybe I'm making shit up. He might have done. But I feel like it's always been just vague enough to where like technically it doesn't necessarily mean that. Yeah, I forgot about Celine. Stupid emperor was like, dude, she's just a rosy. You could literally marry my daughter. I'll make you my son. He's just like. But OK, but this is also why, like, so I was saying before for Kingdoms of Death, that like the way that everyone except Volka dies and I was just like, like the plot armor on this is very strong. But also because there was like all these moments in when they're doing their escape and like other people who care about each other way that Hadrian and Volka do that are getting separated and Hadrian's like, I'm sorry, there's nothing we could have done for them. Like, you know, like you'll get over it basically. And so people who are upset to have lost their loved ones in his grand escape and like the way the narrative treats that and the way Hadrian treats that is like, oh, that's so sad and I'm so sorry for them and they're really heartbroken about it, but whatever. And then when Hadrian loses Volka, it's treated by Hadrian and the narrative like Hadrian acts like no one has ever suffered a loss like this. And it's like so many of your crew members experience this same kind of loss, like get the fuck over yourself. That's just the Hadrian. I would have said in like emperor of silence, that attitude probably would have made more sense. But I feel like at this point in his life, he should have grown out of that a little bit. But I guess. Or at least had some self-awareness of like, I know other people have experienced this before, but like, I don't know how to handle it. But he's acting like no one can understand what I'm going through right now, because literally no one has suffered when I have suffered. And it's just like, dude, he's like Darrow. You do know how lucky you've been that she's not died before. No, it all makes sense. Him and Darrow are some pateco. Even Darrow is not that dramatic. Yes, he is. Yes, he is. They're the same person. And yeah, or he literally says that in like, empire of silence, like, he's like, I'm telling you the story, like the man that blew up a son and killed all the Cielson and killed an emperor. He doesn't say how it happened or why it happened, but he straight up tells you at the very beginning of the first book. And I think he says it several times throughout, like at the beginnings and endings of books where he's like, you know. Well, the every single book ends with him being like, you know how this ends. So like, if you don't want to continue on, which is like the book of the new son. Is it? Is that what that's from? I mean, it doesn't say, you know, how this ends. But like, I'll tell you right now, the end of Shadow of the Torturer, the first book. Does he say Dear Reader? It says the author's note. The end of the first book, Shadow of the Torturer ends with. Here I pause having carried your reader from gate to gate from the way he talks about what happened in the book. So I won't tell you what happened in the book. He says, here I pause. If you wish to walk no farther with me, reader, I cannot blame you. It is an easy road. Yeah, that's I mean. Heavily inspired. You could say. Yes, that's. Yes, he's a massive narcissist. Very inspired. It's just like it annoys me in general in books when like the main characters losses, like, of course, they would affect the main characters. And of course, they affect the reader because we care about them more. But when they're treated by the narrative as being like objectively more significant than what other losses have been, as opposed to just more personally significant, always annoys me and it's always with like love stories and stuff. Or I'm like, yes, I know your love is the love, the greatest love in the history of time. But like it's also definitely not. So like. Yes, I mean, just one more time, like looking back at the like the whole emperor and Hadrian thing about him being. The god emperor, it was like, Hadrian Marlowe is the true born son of earth, they would say. So Hadrian Marlowe is the god emperor reborn for 17,000 years, at least since the great charters in the Constitution of the Palatine cast, blah, blah, blah, blah, they have. And this is where this is definitely doomed, said. The Aventine House had been engaged in a genetic program with the stated goal of repeating the genetic patterns and fabled powers of the god emperor. Like that's literally one for one, like Dune, Benny, Jeserite trying to. But so we don't have any cool Benny Jeserites around. If you're going to copy them, come on, all we have is Valka. That might have been what he was going with with Heverosie, but there's like just Valka. So I mean, that that's definitely like his spin on, you know, Paul of Trades being who he is and the Benny Jeserite trying to genetically modify. Super cool for what he is. What's the super cool Dune word for what he is? Lisa, I'll get you. That's what the locals call him. But what did the Benny Jeserite call him? What? The the people on. The fuck is the planet called Dune? Arrakis. Arrakis. The people in Arrakis call him Lisa. And I'll get you. But please, that's how to act. Oh, yeah. That's my mind literally went blank when you asked me that. Asked me that any other day. I wouldn't have forgot it. I mean, Paul and Jessica is easy to remember. True. But I mean, Paulie. So I mean, that's definitely where you pulled that from. So I mean, I don't know if that's ever going to go. It's definitely not going to go where Dune went, because beyond the first Dune book, she got real weird. But yeah, I mean, this the the Sunneater means assuming the lack of understanding about communism, transphobia, lack of self-awareness is just a Adrian thing and not a Chris thing. You hope like I don't think it is just a Adrian thing. No, I mean, it's so I try not to read too much into some of that in a lot of it, because like so many of these stories do shit like that. But also, like, when you know a religious background of somebody, it's probably playing a role in it because it's always portrayed as like the like forbidden thing to be doing in the world. And even this far into the future, it's still the thing that's like, no, no, no, like you can't do that because the religion of the world says so. So, yeah, I mean, it's probably a Chris thing. Well, it's also like it's like I even though I really loved that part of the book for different reasons in kingdoms of death when he's on that planet where there's like no sex, they just let they're all like. Yeah, where there's like only like the only permitted words or the words that are the pre-approved words and they no one has like identities, no one has names. I thought it was like very cool in terms of like how the intricacy of like how you would have creativity of speech when you only have these pre-approved phrases. Like I thought that was really interesting. That was like a weird council, right, where they were just numbers. Yeah, where they had to like ask permission to speak outside of permitted phrases. So I thought that was really interesting, but it's on that planet too that Hadrian is like, but even though they've tried to stamp it out, like humanity will inevitably like split itself into genders and will recognize its own genders because you can't have a genderless society because like humanity won't allow that ever to happen because that's the true truth of humanness is to have that. And that's where you feel like, oh, yeah, I mean, probably, you know, this. And it's like on that same planet that he's like saved by a Catholic on the planet where they're like, all these people denying gender, denying truth of humanity. It's like, all this together is a little bit inky. I remember you talking about that. Yeah, yeah, that's I mean, some of that definitely shines through. Are we woke? I mean, I am awake. No, you don't have to be woke to understand where people pull certain ideas from Mr. When in this case, we kind of do know where they're pulling their ideas. Yes, I mean, it's religious undertones are always generally obvious. I mean, certain point. I mean, read an Orson Scott cardbook, you know, where some of that shit comes from. It doesn't like we still love these books. It's just some of this, like clearly, it's just like you understand certain parts of the book, like that probably why they were written the way that they were. I don't think it becomes a book for me. Unless it goes like super hard into it by the end of it, where it's like the one true thing was Catholicism. Like if he goes that route, then I'd be like, that's weird. But yeah. But those things bother me more when it comes across. It's like the end of the Queen of Midasha story when Hadrian just spends two pages telling you why he's right about this. Yeah, where it's like, OK, this is not just like generally a part of your world where like the way you've written this scenario is kind of telling on yourself. But it's like when you take time out of the book to like when Hadrian grandstands about how humanity will like the gender of humanity will like always come back to knowing itself because that's humanist. He's like taking time out of the story to like tell you how it be with humanists for no reason. So it's like those parts where I'm like, I don't why is this here? The only reason this is here is because you want to make this point. Like I mean, probably that's probably what happens with a lot of authors is they can't to a certain extent, they're going to put something in there where it's like I'm going to make sure that you understand how I feel right now. I don't tend to like, which is also why I love that Tolkien was like so pissed at C.S. Lewis, because they're both like very religious. Well, Tolkien was Catholic. Yeah, but I mean Lewis was C.I.V. But like, you already is very obvious. And Tolkien was like, obviously, your values go into what you write, but you don't make a book about like a literal liar. Yeah. Yeah, C.S. Lewis was not hiding it. I mean, Frank Herbert has shit like that, too, though. I mean, there's very obvious moments, not as much in Dune, but like definitely the sequels where he's like, no, like this is how I feel about certain things. But I mean, it's I feel like it's not an uncommon trope either where like either gender identity or like not being like, I mean, any fantasy book, it's like people dislike non straight people or like non religious people like that's almost always happening. And so many of these books that it doesn't necessarily I've kind of like accepted it as like part of what happens in most of these books because so many people write it that way. It's almost just like more noticeable when someone doesn't because I'm just so used to it now. It's like you'll watch any like medieval setting thing that's going to be there because that's how it was at the time. But now you're making, you know, tens of thousands of years into the future, but you're still pulling like medieval times into the future. So I don't know. You could definitely not write it that way. But it also it just more like tells on itself when, yes, this is the society and the chantry is like awful and very like narrow. And it's when Hadrian is like having his mind opened by being around Volca. But then by the end, Volca is like just kidding, you were right. I should make babies and be a woman because that's humanness where you're like, so we're weren't being like edging towards open mindedness. We realized that the truth was actually to retrogress. It's like, OK, slightly betraying your own characters that you created a little bit. But yeah, overall, though, I mean, having said, though, like at the end of the day, I still love the books. They're still great. I gave them now that I reread Kingdoms of Death and I gave it five stars on the second go around. I gave it for the first time. So like I've given now all the books five stars. Yeah. Yeah, I hope you and send your book one was so dumb because it's accepted within the story, but people use it as a way to insult each other. Yeah, because, yeah, there is like casual homosexuality that is that what I was happy to see in the books. And yeah, it's stuff like that where it's like, but then it kind of breaks your rail building if you like want to throw that around as an insult. You're like, but why would it be? Yeah. I want to I want to read Sun Water. I like that. It's just a typo. It's just me being dumb. But yeah, so we'll see where the whole God in British it goes. I don't know if that's actually going to pan out to anything or if that's just like a. I don't know where that's going to play. Quiet stuff will pan out to something. And it would have to. But that's where I'm like, I hope it's not something that ruins it for me. It could be. I hope not. We'll see. It's all a religious allegory by the end of it. Even if it doesn't do that, it could do something where it's kind of like what we're saying about how like Volga's decision isn't like an overtly like a religious message, but it is a very like I see what your worldview is. So like if the like if the message of the quiet isn't like a religious allegory, but it is a very extremely. This is this is how you being like confirmed is correct. I'll be like don't like that. We'll see. But yeah, two books left. I don't know when is the next one coming out next year or is he had to change publishers because Dal wouldn't publish his books. So it'll probably be like two. I can't remember if he said it in his video if it was going to be 2025 or not. But yeah, I think he said he finished the draft by the end of. Yeah, I think 2024 we'll get. That he'll finish the draft by the end of 2024. Yeah. So 2024 or late or like 2025, book six and then book seven. Hopefully by I'm going to have to reread all these because I will have forgotten everything about all of them. Yes. So I mean, I'm rereading Red Rising much sooner than I need to. I mean, to be fair, those first three books are super short. They're like for readers of speculative fiction. Yeah. But like Sunny, they're all 500 plus. And it's not like reading, reading iron gold and dark age is much longer than reading age, the first trilogy, which like we all were joking when dark age was so long that the last one is going to be like 2000 pages. And that's basically what happened. That's why we're getting like bringer and they split it in two because Dark Age is 800 pages. Yeah. And no, the stream didn't die. We're still here. Adrienne didn't get us. The stream will die shortly, though. If I told if I told someone to read a 300 page novella, they'd be like, what are you saying? I mean, that's basically I feel like fantasy and sci-fi readers, a book that's 300 pages that is we regarded as a novella. Because it kind of like, you know, generally, if you're reading a fantasy book and it's 300 pages, I'm like, shit, this is awesome. It's so short, but it's usually like either like a self-pubbed book or like a younger aimed fantasy kind of like fate of the fallen or whatever. I remember that. Although the books in the book of the new center are all quite short. And that's because he doesn't explain anything. It's just plot. That's why they did the bind ups to make them look bigger. I know. Well, it's also because like it is all just like it's called the book of the new sun, because it all is just like one book. And every so often, Severean is like, I pause here. And if you do not want to go on with me, I don't blame you. Anyway, next installment. Yeah, I'm going to read that at some point, too. But yeah, and Yo, Severeo is named after Severean. That makes sense. Although they share any characteristics, though. None whatsoever. Because Severe has just a psycho. I mean, Severean is not normal, but is extremely different for Severe. Yeah. Maybe it's all one connected universe. Severeo is going to live forever and become Severean and then translate book of the new sun. After he tortures people. And it turns out that Severean is the quiet. And that's why. Exactly. Who is also the God Emperor of Dune. So now we've come full circle for 75 years of science. Well, Valca is going to come back to life and become the like the start of any jesserit. If Valca comes back in the next book, I would just be like, why? Well, if she comes back full cyborg. That would be sick. He's a little bit of an idiot. It would be like the end of Kill the King when the assassin wakes up and he's just like a head and he's just like attached to a bunch of stuff. That's what she's going to come back as. She's going to come back as Karin Cigara. Oh, yeah, that was one of the stories that I liked. Yeah. Yeah, I forgot about that story totally. Yeah, because he woke up at the end of it. But, you know, like a robot. That story also, like when I that one in Queenie Madash is about the like, I guess it's a heist. I guess seven other motorcycle at least is settled down. Word. But that character, right? Who's like there on be like pretending to like they're infiltrating by pretending to be part of this organization, whatever. That like one thousand percent. I felt like I was in an F from POV from. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was like a little heist that. And it made me want to see like a cyberpunk kind of like element like we get now in iron gold and dark age. Play cyberpunk in the world of the Sun Eater. Whatever. Play cyber cyberpunk. My entire life is Hong Kong, Broom Broom. I can't tell you how much of like the footage of that I like have from trying to film normal videos is literally just me being like waiting, waiting to just cut that sound out. I have like at least like half of my footage is just waiting. Yeah. Did you read the I wonder if there's any like I doubt it, but I read the arc for most of this. I don't know like what differences there were. Well, I didn't read the arc. So I didn't know what differences there are. Fine. There were so many typos in the Queen of Anashes bind up. Were they? Yes. I feel like I was reading much of them pretty quick. I wasn't paying attention. I by the end, yeah, I started like speed reading because I was like, these stories are annoying me. But there were a lot of typos. Oh, that's true. Abercrombie books are pretty short. That's also because like so like a book of the new sun gets away with being short because it doesn't explain anything. And Abercrombie books don't have that much to explain in terms of like world building is like that's why speculative books are always twice as long as like regular books. Because like in addition to telling their story, they have to also tell you what the whole world is. Whereas like a historical fiction book is like, well, you know, Napoleon, I don't have to explain France to you. Yeah. Yeah, it's a reread for me. I just haven't read. I've never read Citadel of the Autarch before, so that'll be new to me. Have you done Earth? Have you done before? No, so I mean, I'm saying it starts being new for me at Citadel of the Autarch. Oh, gotcha. OK. So the first three will be rereads. Got it. It's some. It's very weird book reviews. So I've heard. I'll read it at some point this year as well. And then you'll be like, oh, this is like Sun Eater. This is like Red Rising. He copied Pierce Brown. I do love how blatantly Pierce Brown copied Dune. I don't think he gives a shit, though. Oh, he does it. He's like fully is like fear is a tort. That is 100,000 percent. I ripped that from June. And he says it while alone in a desert with sands swirling around him and he has to like see him. Having visions. Oh, OK. Pierce Brown. You saw it for a while ago. There was someone that was reading Iron Gold and they tweeted at Pierce Brown because like they're on Luna in the scene. And it says that Mustang's face is is moonlit. And they were like, how can Mustang's face be moonlit if they're on Luna? And Pierce Brown replied to that tweet, oh, fuck. Because of an attitude. I appreciate it. Then someone else replied to it and was like, well, all light on Luna is moonlight. So she's moonlit. And Pierce Brown was like, yeah, that's what I meant. That's exactly what I was going for. Thank you for pointing that out. And yes, as it correctly points out, that Book of the News sign is a complete ripoff of the name of the wind. Aren't they all? Yeah, Patrick Roth is actually the author prime and all other stories. That's why it says you may have heard of me because like all stories are actually can kill her. Yeah, I mean, looking forward to Book Six having the Jaddy and against the emperor and that, you know, what will likely turn into a giant human on human battle. And then the Cielson will take somebody out but not having any of the red company anymore. Not having Valka. It's just Hadrian kind of not alone. But, you know, he kind of is at this point. Like, I think it'll be more interesting. Drian unleashed that was. So your face froze and you were just like this. And I just heard Hadrian unleashed, but you were just like. I was so confused for a second. Did that for a dramatic effect? I just don't purpose. I didn't realize you could control your internet like that. It's impressive. I mean, the quiet have been in touch. Didn't know you could hear him. Special, I'm the only one that can hear them. All right, that's all I got. It's a good book. You should read Sun Eater if you're still here and you haven't. I mean, if you're here and you haven't read it, I don't know why you're here at all. Please don't be. I mean, there's people that comment on my videos like 14 books into a Dresden. They're like, I've never read these books, but I'm watching the review. I'm like, thanks. I don't know what you're going to get out of this. But comments on Wisdom of Crowds. Where do you think I should start with first law? Well, not here. Seven books ago. Oh, yeah, you stopped to finish first law. That's one of the things that when I actually permit you to do is when you just sit there not reading first law. It's it's been a while. But I haven't read. That's her cold is the last book that I read in first law. And that was a while ago. I've read them all multiple times since last year. That doesn't mean anything. Leanna, by the time I get back to it, you'll have read them four more times. I mean, at least once more. Exactly. Now, I literally I need to make a twenty twenty three like reading plans videos because I'm not doing TBRs anymore because I can't stick to it because I've just been too busy to actually like stay up on them. Why? I mean, we can. We can talk about how Leanna read ahead of everybody. Your favorite. I mean, I'll be the only other person of our group that reads it by the time we're supposed to talk about the spider. And I'll have forgotten all of that book by the time we talk about it. But now Alan asked me the other day. My name is yesterday. He said, did you finish the cuckoo? And I said, does not starting it count as finishing it? Because I have not. But I am. I'm going to. So anyway, that's my point was I have a twenty twenty three reading plans video I'm going to make where I'm finishing a bunch of stuff. And that's all I'm going to read. And it does include the cuckoo. That'll be one of them. I get so many comments because I hype for under the nose guys series so much, especially in the end of the year, because it was like best of the year and like on my TBR and all my wrap up and whatever. So like, it's also like in my videos lately. And there's so many comments from people like, I'm reading the series because of you. I bought the series because of you. I'm loving the series. Like, thanks for recommending it. And I'm like, yeah, can you go tell Alan, Jimmy and Alex to go? Who's asked to read it? But yeah, I get on that here. I suppose you will not regret it. Yeah, I do want to get back to first law for sure. But like, I didn't I didn't finish. Well, finish Gentleman Bastard yet, because I read the second book and then I didn't read the third book, but it's never going to be finished. I thought you were regarding lies as a standalone. I said it functions really well as a standalone. I thought that meant you just weren't going to read on. No, I read I read book, too. I didn't like it as much because I don't care about pirates and boats. I really like Republic of Thieves, but it was good. And I do wonder, but didn't you say Republic of Thieves has like a super cliffhanger cliffhanger ending? Not well, not so much cliffhanger as bombshell, a bombshell that makes you go. Well, my God, I need that. You could tell me now all of this. It's been like eight years. Yeah, so that'll be fun when I get to it. And I never get a conclusion. That's going to be great. Yeah, that'll be something that I finish. I guess you could regard the end of Republic of Thieves as just like a there's you know, there's like movies that are famous for ending on a massive what the fuck. And it just ends there like you could regard Republic of Thieves that way where it ends on a massive what the fuck. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was like out of here. What? Republic of Thieves, I doubt it. He's too good of a writer. So. But yes, now that we're facing what a cheese crap is until you read the heroes. Well, I'll read it. All right, everybody relax. Since no one else on the stream will ever talk about Joe Abercrombie, I will fall on that sword. I will talk about those books. I am impressed, though. It took you over an hour to say Joe Abercrombie and you only did it because someone in chat was talking about it. I also I didn't bring up how much you've grown. I didn't bring up under the Northern sky, or is it? That's true. But you are you're hitting all the bees, though. You brought it in the heaven. Mostly I brought a friend. We're talking about first law. We're talking about. So that's what I bring up. Look at the news done. Red Rising. And we talked about Red Rising. We got all the hits. Red Rising. There we go. I am excited to read Red Rising. Yeah, it's going to be fun. Now we're officially not talking about Sunday anymore. So we could probably end the stream. Or just turn this into a random book chat. Preview of the Red Rising chat to come. Are we going to do? Yeah, we are doing lives for all of them, right? Yeah. How many times have you read Red Rising? Well, the first time I read it, I almost quit like halfway through. And then I think it sucks. Yeah, I don't. I don't remember at the point like I was literally saying this in. I think it was the Angeles discord. The other is like, I don't remember at what point I started hating this book because I don't think I'm there yet. But I remember at some point I was like, this book sucks. And I kept going back to it. I kept going back to it and like something just kept running the wrong way. And then I finally got through to the end. And I was just like, OK, I see where this is going. I feel like book two is going to kick ass. And it did. And then book three was awesome. And then iron gold was awesome. But like, I didn't really care for Lyria or Ephraim all that much. Because you love Lysander. He's your favorite character. Exactly. He is one of the better written POVs. And the Dark Age is just amazing. And also amazingly dark. It earned its name. I feel like Red Rising in the book, it starts really strong and it ends really strong, which is why I'm like, keep going. But like that instituity bit. Yeah. There's some good moments in it. But there's just, I feel like if I remember correctly, the reason I started to dislike it during the Institute was it felt very childish and like edge lordy kind of where the characters and like just the diet, some of the dialogue, what was happening in the institute. And also just kind of like beggars belief that this is a real thing that they're doing. Yeah. It was a bit much at times and it just felt. But the introduction of the Jackal in the Institute is metal as fuck. Oh, of course. Because he's awesome. Yeah. I mean, I gave Red Rising four stars two on the strength of the beginning and the end. If I was giving a star rating to the Institute, it would be like two. I don't remember what I rated it the first time. It might have been, I think like the first time I rated it, it might have been a three star. And then after I read the whole series, I was just like, this just gets bumped up because I see where it was going. And I just like went back and rated it higher. Yeah. Red Rising was like very mid and then I read Golden Sun and I was like, oh my God, this is so good. I think it was also kind of mad at his random words that he just merged together when I first read it. I was like, you have to stop. There's a lot. I'm just reading the beginning of Red Rising. I don't think he says this anymore, but like Red Arrow says to be Technic about it a lot at the beginning. Technic? Instead of saying, well, technically it would be this. He's like to be Technic about it. I'm just like, please stop. I have zero memory of that. So that's probably going to bother me. Now you're going to look forward to. Truth be told. Now we know the stream needs to end. Truth be told. All right. I have nothing left to say about this. Well, in the ashes of man, he did use the expression truth be told and it was too soon. PTSD from that. Yes. Well, I guess I'll see you in five years when we have the next senator book. Yeah, I'm sure we won't talk about anything between now and then because you're never going to read the cuckoo. So I'm not going to read that. I mean, I'm not reading Red Rising right now, but Red Rising is basically the same thing as senator. So do we need to talk about it? I mean, no, but we're going to. I'll try. She'll probably hurt me. Well, she's a cat. So cats are demons. A demon in white. Have a good night, everybody. We'll see you for other things later. You gotta work on your your intros and atros.