 At a time when most of us are struggling to keep our minds from getting locked up during the lockdown, there are some leaders who have a bigger task at hand of keeping their teams together. We have one such leader with us in our segment called Beating All Odds. He is a creative chairman of Dan and also the co-founder and the CCO of Taproot Densu. Hi, Aggie. Hi. Aggie, it's been almost a month since we've all been holed up inside our homes. Do you think lockdown has become the new normal? I think it's slowly becoming a bit of a habit because the mind is a muscle and when you start doing a new form of exercise like for any muscle in your body, in the beginning it complains and is very difficult but then it starts getting used to that. I'm quite sure that when everybody eventually starts going to work, there will be a few days when it will take time getting used to that as well. But I think critically for large networks in India, including us, the first job is to keep the mental spirits optimistic and motivated because if we don't cross that hurdle then the physical part, getting used to different formats of working or getting used to different business models in the industry, all that will come later. And if we don't keep mental spirits up then it's going to be tough. I was reading this letter written by Ashil Basim to the employees of Densu. He said adversity fuels creativity. Do you agree? Well, I think it's true because whenever we've got a creative brief where there is no odds against it, no deadline, no budget constraint, no common strictures, then we usually actually end up producing not so good work. In fact, we end up not having any work to show because I think adversity is like constraints that actually point to perfection. So I feel a man is known by the size of his enemy. So the larger the odds stacked against you, the larger the opportunity to come out of it heroic if you can. And today we look at all the generation that came through the World War II with the same kind of respect that I guess future generations will look at the generation that came through COVID and moved on. Having said that, which are the best campaigns that have come out from the Densu team in this lockdown period according to you? The best campaigns are campaigns that I've seen created but not yet released. So I can't tell you them orally because I'll spoil the power of the campaign when it's actually done. Because I think initially everybody lost a bit of time because of the indefiniteness as to how long the lockdown would last. If on the first day you knew it would last for 45 days and people would have probably started working on the fourth day, but it may be more than a week or 10 days to realize that it's going to be this long. And until that time it was just a case of figuring out what your lockdown deadline is. But tell me when this started, what were your earliest fears? What did you think the agency can't perhaps cope up with at that point? For the agency and for the industry it was the same. I knew that it would be the trigger or what would normally be, people would say the last one on the camel's back. But on the other hand I was happier relatively that it happened in what was turning out to be a recessionary year anyway. So even before COVID we all know that the world economy was kind of teetering on a recession. India had already entered a recession. And the advertising industry was kind of getting ready to tighten the bell for a year. In that year if this had not happened it would have been relatively better. But I think it would have been much worse had we gone through an entire recessionary year. And just when we were coming out of that say next year COVID happened. So it would have been one after the other. Whereas now how can I say it's a bit like getting jaundice and typhoid together. Rather than recover from jaundice get fine and then again you get typhoid. So it's a silver lining. It's not definitely something one would look forward to. Of course the best is it doesn't come at all. But if it has to come then I would prefer it this way then say you know 2020 was recession. 2021 was COVID. 2022 was... I can imagine. But tell me what kind of problems are you troubleshooting right now? I mean it's been almost a month people have settled in. Are there big problems still? No I think it's a big task to realign sites, targets, models, projections for us. And in partnership with our clients for them. Because everything is changing even for them and for us. And what is changing for them is then changing for us. So just setting new goals and setting new guardrails itself. It's a complicated task in this structure. Because the amount of changes that will happen keep changing every day. You know if a lockdown is extended for example your GDP is reset and everything is reset again. So that itself is a complex task. So just dealing with that has taken some time. But once it goes away and all the bad news is in place. Then it may be easier to fight back right now. We are not even final or sure about whether all the bad news is in. It's a problem of uncertainty. We don't really know when this is going to end. So what kind of coping mechanisms have you launched for your clients? Are there any solutions which are very COVID specific? It is a delicate task. One wouldn't want to look opportunistic to try and use what is happening right now for the sake of pushing a brand. But yes some brands that have been pillars of society during COVID. Technology and telecom and communication. They rightfully need to say that and say what they are doing. Because they are holding us together. I don't know what would have happened if the internet goes into lockdown in the future. But we are working daily with clients to even realign campaigns that were under production or were under research. Research is being done virtually remotely. Production, background work which does not need you to go out costing, lining up. That is being done so that whenever it's possible to start working again. We don't waste time that we could have done during the lockdown. Tell me in this period how has your relationship with clients changed? Have they become more approachable and less demanding? No I think clients are understandable and agencies are even more understandable about what faces them. Because I don't think they have become more demanding. One thing which I do find unusual is for clients to look at agency pitches during this period. Because if you don't have an agency well then it's right to have a pitch. Because you need to get an agency on board and start immediately after this. But if you have an agency on board, I'm surprised that some clients are still looking to change the agency during this period. Because it's an odd time to be initiating or orienting a new agency into your brand. It is happening not much but it is happening nevertheless and it's quite unusual to note. But are these big brands or smaller ones? What are the kind of... I think it's more largely for brands that either didn't have a permanent agency or didn't have an agency to start with, smaller brands. But none of the big ones are saying we'll change our agency at this time because it doesn't make... I mean there are bigger things to change and bigger fish to fry than worrying about initiating a new agency into your brand in this period. On the other hand we've seen agencies really rise up to the challenge and deliver ads and record time. Like I was going through the Bebo ad that Immorten, Denso Impact came up with. It was made in less than a week. So tell me now after this lockdown is over, the clients know that the agencies are capable of delivering work in less than a week's time and in such crazy deadlines. Do you think it's going to backfire where clients will come and say listen I know you did it. Please do it again. No I don't think it will backfire because you know you pull in a lot of favours and pull out all stops and do unusual things, risky things. Not to probably absolutely the right way of doing it in order to pull this off because the price of failure is relatively low if the ad is not the best in the world or not even 70% of what it should be. It's kind of accepted now because you're working under such great odds. But when you're working in an open market free market scenario you want everything to be as good as it can be. So you can't have a situation where you say well considering what we were going through this is a good ad. Now today you can say considering what was happening at least we got an ad out. But in a free market scenario you can't say you know at least it's an ad. It has to be a good ad. So it can't be done every time and clients know that because if we could do it and it could go wrong. So it's a bit like saying can you go out and start hitting every ball for six from the first over and win a match. You can but if you try at every match you may not succeed. And also on a more serious note obviously clients are cutting down advertising spends. Are they really cutting down agency fees right now or is it still nascent to talk about that? Well there will be negotiations. I think as in when the lockdown slowly starts lifting and people get used to you know talking to each other about fees. There will be a renegotiation of the fees and it will be through the line because the public is renegotiating their contracts with brands. So brands are negotiating their contract with suppliers and suppliers are negotiating their contracts with employees. So and therefore the employees and our buyers eventually who are not looking for any purchase but for the best bargain. So it will be a cycle of renegotiation like an ambit of renegotiation right through the system. But once it purchase and it goes through and then it settles down then you'll see demand rise and you'll see prices rise and you'll see choices rise again. And once slowly when normalcy starts returning do you think agencies will become that much more important for clients to you know get back as soon as the lockdown is over you want to come back with a bang maybe. So you think agencies will become more important for clients once that happens? I think it will be the same. I think where in the past during recessions the back of the economy has always been faster than it was on the search. But only within six months you find everything's up everything's selling there are no stocks on the shelf. So for some reason it just almost happens overnight. And in this case also there will be a jostling for position because the fields have slightly loosened up as to you know who gains what market share. But everybody will try to get themselves into a good position to make the best of the resurgence whenever it happens 18 months from now 12 months from now. A few things of course will change permanently. I think we will become more conscientious purchasers. So it may not go back to what it was but it may go to a different place. And there may be a huge thrust on health not in the covid sense even what's happening to the earth and to the planet and all that. So no longer will it be dismissed off as something that our kids will have to worry about in their lifetime. So if somebody says a glacier is melted away it's not something that's happening far away and if you watch a national geographic anymore. Because it's melting away yesterday may impact you in the market tomorrow Bombay. And another thing is now one trend that has emerged is more and more brands are going towards digital. As a company which has always I think had 50% of your revenues have come from digital. Do you think that's one sliver of hope or good news for Denso in that department. Yes it is good for people who have been there and waiting for digital to become properly mainstream. So they are ready but I think often what is a wider choice of medium is camouflaged as a change in the way you do creative. I think once the dust settles down and digital finally has its place in the sun the manner in which you do creative thinking may not be too different from what it was. But right now for most of us creative people it is clearly a powerful new visible medium that's coming your way. But what you put out on digital may need a bit of tweaking in terms of how we think but not much not. It's not as different from what we do as a film was to press when film came in. When we do a completely different medium. But this is not that different because eventually you are using parts of older media creative. You are just collating it or curating it in a different manner. You are still doing photography, you are still doing cinematography. All of these are crafts that you have done before you are just putting it in a new combination for digital. Another thing is one of the good things that happened. You got quite a few short lists at the one show. So web chutney from Naurang has got seven. And it was a fantastic year for you last year at Cannes. Unprecedented. So tell me at any point did you feel when Cannes cancelled this year's festival. Did you feel they could have been done with a digital version of Cannes this year. Just so that the creativity that your agency has come up with and others too. Isn't lost this year is not like a big gap where you suffer as creative. First of all I think it wasn't felt so strongly because it was expected. It wasn't something that happened all of a sudden. More than the ability to logistically pull it off. I think a lot of people felt that the fact that the award shows are positioned for so many years as a celebration of creativity. There may be a lot of people feel that it is not appropriate at this time to celebrate a certain aspect of your discipline when there are greater perils to the earth. So just that to have an award show to congratulate each other on work that's been done while it looked like at that time the rug would get pulled off your feet. I think they took a call to not have it in spirit rather than to not have it physically. I mean there are ways of pulling it off. So if digital can't pull off a virtual award show then who can. And on the other side you know pay cards have become a reality now. And even layoffs to some extent. What is the case at Den Swamin? How are you dealing with that? Well there is a conversation about pay cards above a certain level. I think it's fair. I think everybody was prepared for it. And most of us I think kind of accepted it even before it was announced. Because we felt and that runs through the agency that it's a fair call to take. Because everybody is putting their shoulder to the wheel in some manner or the other. Some people are working more for the same amount of pay. Some people are working the same for a lesser amount of pay. So I don't think it's something that will worry people right now. I think the bigger worry is whether it persists or continues in 2022. Because then it's a symptom of a far deeper malaise in the corporate world. But right now I think everybody knew that it should happen. And lastly today advertising has become more of a service. We are not seeing any product led ads. Because it wouldn't be right considering the circumstances. And also there is no way to complete the purchase cycle there. So as such times would you say that the seeing goes when fishermen can't go to sea. They repair their nets. Is that what brands are doing right now? I think different people do it in different ways. For creative, fertilizing their mind was always easier than for most other businesses. Because you are trying to absorb from the creative craft, from music, from cinema. Educating yourself, upgrading your skills was always a time. And this is one thing that has been made available to people due to the lockdown. So a lot of us are not creative. Maybe you just get distracted and start watching Netflix and all that. But it is an opportunity to log into a webinar or to go and see. There was always a forum for education online. So I think masterclass is now offering one membership free with a single membership. So a lot of us are doing that. It's something we used to always do. At least I should do much more in the early part of my career. As time went on and businesses really went through the roof, you took on more and more work and there was never time to do that, actually. So in fact, I think a lot of advertising people are finally watching television for a long time. Otherwise, you really watch television because you're never home at that time or you had other things to do. This is a good time to stand back and breathe. Yeah, kind of reset and take stock of actually where you stand in your life, where your life stands in context of the world, of your world at least, and where your world stands in context of the wider world outside. Because otherwise, it's easy for us to think that advertising is the world actually. It's not. As you become older, you realize that and a lot of people have become very old in the last 15 days and realized it. Thank you so much for speaking to us and hope we can all tie through this crisis together collectively. Thank you.