 Good morning, everyone We're really pleased you could be with us this morning on a challenging weather Scenario, but we're happy to have you My name is Linda Bishai. I'm the director of the North Africa programs at the United States Institute of Peace We are honored this morning to welcome Sheikh Rashid Ghanoushi President of the Nahta Party and his delegation here with us today. I'd like to recognize the members of the Delegate of the UNICEF member of Parliament Mr. Usama El-Sidair member of Parliament and Intasar Kareeji Program director of the Jasmine Foundation and also Sheikh Ghanoushi's daughter We are also very grateful to our co-sponsors today the Center for the study of Islam and democracy For their partnership with us in ensuring that today's event is going to be a success US IP like many of us in the international community has watched with admiration as Tunisia has forged ahead in its democratic transition in the face of growing terrorist threats social and economic constraints and the growing refugee crisis We are especially pleased with the recent selection of the Tunisian Quartet to receive the Nobel Peace Prize for their Instrumental role in providing Tunisia with a roadmap for democratization With a commitment to act cooperatively and pushing forward with critical reforms Tunisians today are at the crossroads of the old structures of the former regime and the new democratic Institutions currently being strengthened and solidified As the country continues to move forward We remain excited by opportunities to learn from and be inspired by Tunisia Both from the strength of its leaders and from the passion of its citizens Our guest today Sheikh Rashid Ghanoushi led the effort of forming a unity government in Tunisia after the Ben Ali regime He has been an advocate for the compatibility of Islam and democratic governance pluralism and modernity Since the revolution Sheikh Ghanoushi has played a key role in the 2011 electoral success of the Nahtah party And in the formation of the ruling Troika coalition and the success of the national dialogue Which led to the adoption of the most democratic and progressive constitution in the Arab world Sheikh Ghanoushi recently received national crisis groups peacemakers award along with Tunisia's president Beji Kairasi whom US AP also had the honor of hosting this past May The founders award is given to pioneers in peacebuilding with Sheikh Ghanoushi being chosen for his unwavering dedication To pluralism inclusion and compromise during Tunisia's democratic transition Following Sheikh Ghanoushi's remarks we will be delighted to have Ambassador Bill Taylor the executive vice president of USIP and Robin Wright distinguished joint scholar at USIP and the Woodrow Wilson Center join us on stage for a frank discussion on challenges facing facing Tunisia and the region Previously Ambassador Taylor was the special coordinator for Middle East transitions in the US Department of State He has been an advocate and champion for Tunisia from the very beginning of the post-revolution period and oversaw assistance and support to Tunisia from 2011 to 2013 Journalist and author Robin Wright is a joint fellow at the US Institute of Peace and the Woodrow Wilson International Center Wright has reported for more than 140 countries on six continents for the Washington Post the Los Angeles Times and CBS News Her book Rock the Kasbah Rage and Rebellion across the Islamic world Won the 2012 overseas press club award for the best book on international affairs. I Would like to announce at this point that Sheikh Ghanoushi has kindly agreed to address us in his speech in English We will leave the option of translation available But we are very grateful for for that agreement without any further delay. I would like to invite Sheikh Ghanoushi up to the podium Good morning Thank you Ambassador Taylor. Thank you for for all distinguished audience Thank you for Mrs. Robert Wright and the US Institute of Peace for this opportunity. I Am happy to be with you To give you an update on Tunisian Transition to democracy Exactly one year ago Tunisian celebrated their second free and fair elections Although Nahba came second We celebrated the elections as a victory for all Tunisians As we see it a free and fair elections is the victory victory for all Tunisians we Congratulated the Winners the winner at the time needed Tunis on their victory today Nahba proudly Service in the coalition government that represents nearly 80 percent of parliament This model of democracy coalition and Consensus is being celebrated by all friends of Tunisia and all believers in democracy But the road Hasn't been easy Just over two years ago in 2013 Tunisia's democratic transition nearly collapsed Many voices were raised seeking to shut down the parliament and Stop the writing the constitution Tunisia at the time faced risks But the single most important factor for me was the hopes and dreams of Generations in Tunisia and indeed Around the region that our countries can achieve democracy that being a Muslim and Arab and Democrat we prove that it's possible What mattered most for us Was to protect national unity and save the democratic transition process At that critical moment We made a very difficult decision Rarely made by political parties we gave up our that we won through free and fair elections and Accepted to join the national dialogue We also Decided to choose reconciliation and not revenge Against people who were in the old regime. We voted against the exclusion the exclusion law Which would have Excluded everyone who worked with dictatorship We did this because we saw that happened in Iraq and in Syria Which led to the collapse of the state We also believe that we need national reconciliation to open a new page in our history So that we can focus on the present and the future not just on the past Our decision together with the other parties in the dialogue put the train of Democracy on track the writing of the constitution was continued we wanted a constitution for all Tunisian not just the majority That is why we Consensus and dialogue as a means of solving differences as a result As a result the constitution was voted by 94 94 percent of Parliament We now have a constitution that guarantees democracy Human rights equality between men and women freedom of consensus Conscience and believe and freedom of press as a result Tunisia had its second free and fair elections and we are now building the institutions of the democratic Republic Throughout that difficult period. We have always Tried very hard to avoid polarization polarization What are between Islamist and secularists or between revolutionary forces and old regime this I Believe was also very important for the success of the Tunisian model Cooperation between moderate Islamist and moderate secularists is Necessary for the success of democracy in our region That is why when we won the 2011 elections we choose we chose and that is why after 2014 elections we decided to join the coalition government with media too we believe that Transitional democracy Governing with 51% is not enough We need a wide majority to create a stable and strong government able to make the necessary reforms The Nobel Prize Recently awarded to the national dialogue Quartet is the stimuli of our achievements But Tunisia has not yet reached safety Despite our huge progress we have many challenges ahead the first is the economy The economy growth is key to building stable democracy The revolution was a call for freedom Development and jobs young people are now Why are now waiting to see if democracy can deliver any fruits our government is working hard To reform and modernize the economy and create opportunities for all Tunisians We are Introducing a new investment code reforms and public-private partnership law The second challenge is security our enemies know That if they attack the economy they can undermine democratic transition and Extinguish the last flame of Arab Spring Naha is working in government to protect the security of our citizens and Visitors through a new counter-terrorism law and security reforms Naha believes that ensuring safety and protecting human rights has Has to be compatible Repressing freedom to protect security only undermine both We were the victims of oppression before We are committed Not to allow the old practices of oppression to return We are committed to protect protecting the human rights of our citizens and freedom of expression and the press Despite the challenges We are very optimistic Tunisia has already shown biggest difficulties Peaceful peacefully, but We need your urgent support we need a dramatic increase in International support from our friends we need a mini Marshall plan for Tunisia reform Takes time But we need to work together to show that democracy does deliver Tunisia provides an alternative to the other narratives in the the first Call for extremism terrorism and claim that Islam and Democracy are not compatible It calls for the clash of civilizations the second claim that stability can only be Achieved through dictator and oppression Tunisia Provide an alternative that Islam and democracy Islam and the human rights Islam and the quality between men and women is possible Thank you. Thank you on behalf of this large crowd on on a rainy day for your comments or your broad Explanation of the challenges as well as the successes that you have Contributed to and that all Tunisians get credit for We're very pleased to have Robin Wright as Linda has introduced her And if you agree Robin may have a comment or two. She is rarely without comment Robin doesn't need my permission Thank you very much. I'm honored to be here and to share the stage With shake a new she and my colleague bill bill Taylor. We go back now to the late 1980s when he left Tunisia and Made his first visit to the United States and he came to my house and we sat for several hours in Georgetown discussing Islam and democracy and Much a almost everything he said back then Is true today and I have to say he's kept his word in terms of sharing power with other political forces and Accepting the transition of power So I commend you on that. I think the the Key phrase he used was that this is a road not easy And I think that I wanted to outline some of the challenges this Model country faces Tunisia is in many ways the hope of the Arab Spring But also in some ways the real casualty of the Arab Spring when you look at the Presidential election last December I was an international monitor at the election and it was pristine The process Was so well carried out as all of four of the major monitoring groups concluded and yet There were some real problems in that the lowest turnout in the country was among the young and And The lowest turnout in a single city in Tunisia was in city Buzid Where the Arab Spring began When a young fruit vendor named Mohamed Buzizi set himself on fire to protest corruption And it's a microcosm the election of the challenges Tunisia now faces Today when you look at the issues that spawned the uprising Across the region Tunisia now faces 15% unemployment nationwide, but 30% among its university graduates and 30% among the young who live in the areas like City Buzi the the interior areas outside the the code is also a When you look at what the security situation is today after the attack at the Bardot Museum in March that killed 22 and In the at the beach resort in Seuss that killed 38 This is devastating for a country that relies On tourism jobs in a country of 10 million. That's a huge that's 14% of the labor force Tunisia more foreign fighters for the Islamic State and Sunni extremist movements in Syria more than any other country 3,000 with a pretty challenge since the Bardot attack in March They've arrested more than a thousand people and on That were operating inside the country So the security and the economic situation, you know play off each other They create a kind of cycle. That's hard to break Then there's some of the old problems that haven't been cleaned up first and foremost the issue of corruption This is one that that Tunisia ranked 59th in 2010 on the eve of the uprising when it came to Transparency and accountability today it ranks 79th The state auditing board found that last year alone they could find $230 million in bribes to state officials Which shows you that it's the pedigraf that is Continues to be rampant in Tunisia Anyway, I wanted to outline just some of the challenges. I think Tunisia faces and And then there's the fact that on on all of your borders You face Tremendous insecurity the weapons flows that come from Libya The uncertainty of whether Libya can even hold together the autocratic rule that is returned to Egypt and Led to a kind of discontent in North Africa Algeria which is on the eve of a leadership transition And Morocco which is clamped down on those who are whether they are Islamists or Outspoken in criticizing the government Tunisia is not in a region that is conducive in any way To the kinds of reforms it's trying to undertake and it faces election a year from this month a municipal election Which will be key in helping people throughout the country feel empowered as if they Reap the benefit as if they have some control over their life And I think it'll be very interesting to be able to compare what happens a Year from now in those elections to what happened in December with the presidential election Robin, thank you for Going through some of the challenges Shekinuchi mentioned some of the ones you've you've now focused on those as well and Shekinuchi Ladies I'm gonna ask you just a couple of questions here Chances are Robin will want to ask a question or two But then we would very much appreciate your comments questions for Shekinuchi as well and then we will wrap up by 11 30 just because we have another The shake has another meeting that he has to get to so but to start off Shekinuchi with Robin's reiteration of the challenges that you described as well you described the economic challenge and the attempt by by terrorists to disrupt the economy and Robin pointed out the importance of tourism to Tunisia a Great source. I mean anyone most people of this were many people in this room probably have been to Tunisia and been to Tunisia and it's seen the potential of that of the of the traction And of the economic benefits of tourism there So to strike at that for terrorists to strike at that is a challenge that that you that you mentioned and you talked about the counter-terrorism law and The balance between safety on the one hand and people's rights and what you're fighting for in terms of democracy on on the other hand It's a challenge that all countries face that we face as well Robin mentioned corruption Again a challenge that we all face Every day we can read the newspapers in in our country and every day in every country. There is that as well So if you were to focus pick one of those challenges that this coalition government that you've described What would what would be your first? What's your guidance to the government? What is your what is the top top challenge that you would raise? I think There is a real relations between the economy and the security We couldn't improve our economy without guarantee our security and Garant garanti the security vis-a-vis terrorism is not easy If as Robbins said that our region is full of chaos Yeah, and also we have to respect Human rights respect the law to contradict and to fight against terrorism. So we have to Keep our democracy to save respect our democracy in the same time to fight against terrorism but The Economy is very important because Most of the young people who Deal with the or has linked with terrorism group Terrorist group They're coming from the poorest region of Tunisia as you said so you couldn't We couldn't fight against terrorism without fighting Against the high level of unemployment in the country. So to have to face the economy problem and to improve our our infrastructure so The two problems are linked each other And we have to face both the economy and the security So the economy and security One thing and then Robin right to you In the same and respecting democracy now on the third piece on the democracy and indeed the governance You've mentioned and Robin alluded to as well that You're now in the second coalition government Since independence so an after has joined two coalitions with secular parties and you've demonstrated that That an after Unlike other similar political parties in the region and we're gonna come I'm sure we're gonna talk a little bit about the region What is it about Tunisia That allows that to happen that allows the the an after party to join with With co with secular parties and a broad coalition that now as you say the second coalition that you've been in 80% So it's a broad coalition. What is it about Tunisia that is the Tunisian model? I think you used it Robin mentioned model as well that That might refute those who say that Tunisia is an anomaly We've heard from several people Tunisia is the exception. It's not the rule Is Tunisia a model that can be emulated is there anything up? Is there is there the ability to adopt the Tunisian model across the region? Each country Arab country has its specificities We in Tunisia opt on Polishing government on cooperation between islamist Not all islamist mothered islamist and secularist and also mothered secularist because there are some Extremists and their extremism based on modernity Like for example the far right the far left Against the far right so we face in Tunisia both all sort of extremism based on islam like the answer sharia and or the far left based on so-called modernity but we opt for It includes inclusive inclusive system where we can include and can all moderate can participate because Transitional democracy democracy within them transitional democracy Government cannot be Based on simple majority 51 percent it has to based on Best majority we called in islam is ma sort of which ma many so best majority What so we have done during the Coalition and the second coalition the first coalition we let it the second coalition it leads it led by Need items, but we accept to participate and by some ministers to Support this experience and That this model of In Tunisia can affect positively other Arab countries Robin you wanted to I want to ask a question one of the things I heard in Tunisia in December was the very sad story of a young of a Tunisian who'd gone to Syria and he He the story went that he had called his uncle at one point very concerned about that he wasn't as happy as he thought he'd be joining Isis and And that he was trying to get out But he they confiscated his passport and that he kept in touch with the uncle and then his uncle didn't hear from him so he called and Someone else answered the cell He was a suicide bomber last week he's he has died and The story implied that he had been Forced into doing something that he didn't want to participate in We're now a More than a year into this Isis phenomena. Can you give us a sense of What you're hearing on the ground about Tunisians who are going and joining you stream this group be it new Nusrah? Isis or any of the others how deep does it go? How is it changed? What's the government doing to try to stem the tide give us an insider's feel on this issue? This question is very important and many people asked why Tunisia Tunisia, which under the democracy regime Cannot cannot control their young people thousands of them join Iraq or Syria or Libya Join them as part of terrorism you have to take an account that This This phenomena is new is not new one. It's Hated by bin Ali regime So it's these people the same people are the remains of Ben Ali regime reaction of dictatorship regime even the total Terrorism in the region are the fruit of terrorism of Of dictate dictators whether in Iraq by Saddam Hussein Now the remains of bath join in Iraq join Isis and In Syria also and then in Libya the remain of Qaddafi join guide or Isis so Our region is victim of dictatorship regime and What you can expect to come out from such regimes You expect that democracy can emerge from this kind of regime the regime of Saddam the regime of Qaddafi of bin Ali of half of Assad the reaction of this tiny the tyranny the reaction is From the same from the same essence from the same identity so but we gave another another We we constitute another response We refuse to respond the violence of regime bin Ali and by violence but we call for democracy as reaction reaction because Responded dictators by Respond violence by violence its circle without exit So we have to avoid to react against but in Tunisia and in Libya and Iraq Syria everywhere There are some people react against terrorism against Dictator by violence we refuse this regime and we refuse these Reactions, this is a this is a very important point being here at the Institute of Peace we We look For those kinds of reactions We look to see how a non-violent approach to mitigating and resolving conflict and Sometimes it's hard sometimes it's real hard and as you've said there is a balance between Counterterrorism act counter-terrorist actions actions on security to crack down and and on civil rights, but Guidance for us here at the Institute of Peace on how you how this Nonviolent Approach works what guidance can you give us or others in the region and I know Robin has a follow-up question, too but but what guidance on on non-proaches Yes, we have to to be committed with the peaceful means In our actions What are even if If there is one regime is dictator we have not React by violence because we enter in a circle without end so Tunisian people react against Ben Ali by peaceful revolution and This is the main character of Tunisia revolution that this evolution is Peaceful revolution and Succeed to remove Ben Ali without using any violence and after that we are we Opt on dialogue between Islamist and no Islamist We establish Coalition government between both so We don't believe that we have to export this revolution because we don't believe with exportation but if we succeed if this experience this model succeed can be can be Model for others good experience which can be Implemented other or be any others can have benefit from this experience But without interview any sort of intervention outside Our country we refuse the any sort of intervention. I want to go back to my question because I don't think you answered it It's Five years in December since the beginning of the uprising When Bouazizi set himself on fire and it's hard for me to believe that there are people who have joined Isis or Nusra or Al-Qaeda In any of these countries are still reacting to Ben Ali Or the environment it it's in some ways a reflection of whether it's the secularists or the Islamists that have failed them they they they don't believe that anyone's delivering And I'm trying to get it the deeper sense of You as the leader of an Islamist party, you know How pervasive is this still is it growing is What's the kind of inside feel from having to deal with this from those who are believers themselves And yet are joining not a nada, but they're joining, you know, the extremist movements How how is the problem deepening in Tunisia today than it was a year ago? this Phenomena is very marginalized phenomena in Tunisia. Yes. Yes, the phenomena of extremism. Yeah, it's very marginalized very marginalized it's as I said the reaction of Dictator When the revolution started in Tunisia, the pre-tunisian prison contained more than 3000 of these people and they committed many crimes against Ben Ali regime and they joined Afghanistan and they kill Sheikh Masoud. Okay. Who kill you remember who killed Sheikh Masoud was Tunisian it's before revolution so the the the environment was ready to To push something Tunisian young who are upset To join this Illusion that they can They can Solve problem of Tunisia or the problem of Muslim nation by using violence against Regimes against Americans against Any any regime so it's lack of freedom in this in this region lack of development lack of good education Tunisia was there there is a vacuum during the During Ben Ali regime and Burkiba regime there was Sort of vacuum because the Our governments during the independence they closed down to the tuna mosque, which was like Azhar No, none of Tourist has Educated has been educated in Azhar. Do you hear that there is an Azhari who join who join tourist group now because who study Islam Discover that the very in within Islam within the Heritage of Islam there are many opinion many is the head so you you cannot Establish a tourist in Azhar but in engineering it's it's it's it's possible in Of technology you can you can establish an interest but human the human science and Islamic science among the human science. It's not easy to Educate a tourist So there is lack of knowledge about Islam lack of lack of democracy like of development So this is this disease has to be fought Not by the police only by through good education good Economy so because this is this philomena is very complicated The philomena has to reason has to be fought with set set of romance Shekinuchi you just mentioned the The fact that many people don't understand Islam as well as the other complicating factors Robin Wright Had in addition to the book that Linda mentioned rock the Kazba also wrote another book About the Islamists are coming And so if it's all with you, I'm gonna ask Robin a question on this and you can comment on her response, which is Based on what you've seen now in Tunisia and Islamist party and not a Leading the way in some real sense. How do you how would you answer? What's the concern in your book? Update your concern on the book on the Islamist are coming. Well, we actually was very interesting We we did a complete rewrite of the book second edition and there they're the two bottom lines are first that political Islam Which soared into political life across the Arab world? is has plummeted in terms of appeal and Position for a variety of reasons And extremist Islam the other end of the Islamist spectrum has you know now the dominant trend And this does not bode well for the likes of and nada Or those that are willing to work within the political system the many branches of the Muslim Brotherhood It's clear that the old elites Are are not going to or or are prepared to do almost anything to to hold on to power to retake power again And that this is one of the kind of tragedies I think of the The last five years is that that those hopeful parties That wanted to play ball Legally share power Have been have been either marginalized excluded or in the case of Egypt, you know, there was a military coup so I think that's Where we stand five years later, and I don't see any reversal Anytime soon unless there is some kind of military setback or in Syria and Iraq or if there's a Eventually some kind of political Solution in one of those two places, but the momentum is all on the excited side of extremists right now Any comments on that before we open it up to the audience for the other questions We stand strongly believe that Violence cannot be any solution, but it's a problem So the solution is to express the modernity the spread the dialogue and the reconciliation no no exit for Violence is in it It can complicate And the situation not to resolve so we have to spread the mentality of Reconciliation dialogue and Spread the peace not the war We are in there. We're in favor of that In the right place. We are in the right place. You're in the right place. Welcome. Welcome to the Institute of Peace So let me now open the the floor for questions for security and for Robin I can ask questions around you can too Let's start here and there are mics that are coming toward you Right good morning, everyone. Salamu alaikum. I'm stirrer annushi. I am myself a Tunisian citizen And I think like many Tunisian fellows. We have this question in the back of our head That is what is happening for Ben Ali since you've mentioned many times that is the he's the source of many problems Happening today in Tunisia. Is it one of your priorities or concerns to? Sick extradition for Ben Ali despite the fact that he's been sentenced to life prison by a military court But he's in Saudi Arabia right now So what are you doing for having him back and face justice in Tunisia? My second question very quickly Party and moderate Islamist party. How do you define the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt? And have you been into discussion with them after the military coup? Yeah, yeah, the brotherhood In Egypt so far they abstain to react by the code it happened and We encourage them to continue and we encourage Their youth to continue a reacting peacefully Because we believe that violence is a problem not a solution so if one muslim in Continue reacting peacefully so no problem, but if they They go to Violence I Think it's they would be another They will be another one muslim because the one muslim The brotherhood as we know it's a peaceful Movement not violence woman movement so far and Ben Ali She asked about Ben Ali Ben Ali we defend his right to To to fair trial and to To enjoy his identities like passport and Any identity if you come to Tunisia we want that he come back to Tunisia to be trialed Yes, he asked Tunisia government asked Arabia, Saudi Arabia to to deliver To send Ben Ali to Tunisia sent back to Tunisia Good. Thank you in the rear. Yes, sir Hello, Salamu alaikum and welcome to Sheikh Rashid. Thank you Introduce yourself. Yes, my name is Muaz Zemni. I'm a Tunisian for 31 years now. Thank the dr. Taylor. Thank you. Mr. Robin. Now your assessment is almost kind of a bleak here He's been commanded for all the good work Saying the slimes are coming. It's a little bit You know the title is kind of semester, but Tunisia has shown the way and has led the way we need to fully support this country and its experience not experiment Emphasize because this is not a workshop. This is a choice by the people of Tunisia to get on this March for democracy. The best investment is in democracy Now we're looking at The symptoms of terrorism the symptoms of extremism we need to address the roots This is where promise and like she said we need a mini Marshall plan a true plan not a half-heartedly support a full Support full blown support behind Tunisian experience and decision to get on this March for democracy Of the question is addressed to Sheikh Rashid Sheikh Rashid You've shown the way and the way and I consider you the new Gandhi The mother has I mean tenazer Katerin tenazer it's a criminalism. I haven't like in the general after I mean cut him the rest of us are On the other hand And on the other side we see that now that has really gave up a lot of A lot of things sacrificed made of too many sacrifices But this coalition it's been seen as almost such as status quo Jumu'd immobilize It's it's parallel Z in the country because nobody is really showing its color You know the Nida is not really showing his color another is not really showing its is true governing So it's it's a coalition, but it's not an actual coalition What are the red lines of the sacrifices of another? Thank you very good. Thank you. We are part of this coalition and Any government based on coalition it's can can some quarrel some problems can Emerge from this four parties in government, but I think the the state the government is stable and Mr. Seed Is independent not belong to any of these four parties so he can he can rule without being Linked with this party or other party, so it's I believe and I think that the prime minister is honest And moderate person and he is in the right place so we back him we support him without any hesitation without any Any problem Can I say one thing I I think the Support of the United States from the us supported the revolution But its support Translated very With modesty We supported now by all democracies we gain many prices Nobel Prize International grace Christ group from the world has not yet translated into Deeds so if that experience considered as Benefit not not for for Tunisians only but it's in favor of the all all countries because we We perform a new model new interpretation of Islam where Islam is compatible with democracy human rights International cooperation so Supporting this Interpretation of Islam supporting this model is the only alternance of Daesh of Isis of Kaida but I we see that The investment on democracy is best if we cooperate it with the investment on fighting tourism but The short way for fighting tourism it is to invest in democracy This investment is so far very modest and you called for you called for a mini-martial plan And and that was referred to by the question as well Robin you had I do and I think you've put your Finger on the real problem, and that's the political status quo The fact is that a lot of the reforms have been stalled Particularly when it comes to economic issues partly because of the labor unions the government has actually had to raise Wages at a time that it should be trying to it's trying in that World Bank says it needs to cut back on its budget And so there is this tension But there's also I think a sense that that the Amnesty law they're considering To amnesty people who were charged with corruption under Ben Ali Perpetuates the status quo if they pay back some money, then they're not going to be charged They're not you know They'll be open to be part of the of the system again And I think that it looks like you're there's a slippage into the Ancien regime getting more of a role And of course those are the people who would you might be able to get the big contracts and so forth But there is this catch-22 and that's why I say Tunisia's a Casualty that you can't get private investment and people are not willing to invest because of security issues and you know tourism is down 25% from what it was in 2010 and that's that's a devastating blow so you have not only new sources of revenue But you don't even have some of the old sources of revenue So they're trapped economically in this and and declining Trapped in the status quo politically and and declining when it comes to the economy and that's why I think it's a casualty Yeah, we all want a Marshall plan We want a Marshall plan for all of these countries that I think one of the biggest US mistakes was in as in the case with Libya oh, we're willing to get rid of Qaddafi, but we did squat all when it came to trying to help build a New Libyan government and of course that has an overspill impact on Tunisia and countries, you know south to the Sahel and across North Africa so, you know It's a real tragedy And I and I fear that Tunisia can't break out of that cycle and no one's gonna help it Call it David. So Calm down. Yes, right back here and then well, yeah, right here Um, my name is Asma. I'm a Tunisian journalist. My question is So another campaign on things like Social justice and breaking with breaking with the corrupt and repressive practices of the past Unfortunately now senior and other members have been speaking in favor of this amnesty law that was just mentioned now So how how does another explain this shift in its position? Especially that before two years ago another flirted with the with the law of the political exclusion. Thank you it's true that we Exclude to legislate the project of Exclusion As Resolution law will use this project and we consider that Very important because what happened in Iraq in Egypt where the such such project Become a law and it's a Constituted by text of civil war so One of the characteristics of Tunisian model Tunisian exception is that we avoid such law and we opt of cooperating between The future the present and the future the past and Because crime we cannot call Cannot condemn by collective the people the crime is personal is is Individual so but about the of Economic on reconciliation sent by the president permit me to ask our member of parliament say that to explain Hello, everyone, it's a great opportunity to Thank you for coming and showing trust on what's going on in Tunisia actually Economic development is something very important for us at the moment. We've been suffering I mean during decades from a system, which was a very exclusive one You're based on favoritism on an economy Being I mean the consequences of it and the Tunisian state who was kind of for you You know the Difference and and being able to control the social situation is no longer able to do it because It's definitely a time here and when it comes to Which is more actually a low which is a transitional justice Low our idea today. This is one of the option. We're working in Is like in accordance also to the recommendation of Internet international organization is how to Actual existent transitional justice law our government and who shows that this is the right way actually to fulfill transitional justice and We have a reality which is that there's you actually Hold the capital in Tunis and it to be included in the process of economic development And this is also why we adopted just one week ago the public partner We believe that we need to work in good intelligence with the private sector in the public sector and This is also Why we are in a moment where we are redefining a lot of you know Middle countries like us Facing and we call no longer work with the the previous system and This is why also it's important for us to come here To speak with also our European partners because we are again in a moment where we're thinking about new ways a new innovative ways of development and we want to invest massively in sectors like for example the agriculture one Technologies and to make Tunisia also being one of the leaders in the green economy So this is as you can see. I mean a lot of the Path we are trying to develop and to work in So, thank you. Thank you very much Very good idea. She could urge you to have the face of Tunisian Parliament member of the National Party of Great representation. Thank you. She's a member of Finance committee finance committee. Thank you for doing that Yes, sir I want to ask you a year ago there was separate from the moon And I'm wondering where you have come out on those discussions And it does strike me as a little strange to have a movement that also has a Dawa function inside a coalition This discussion is continue so far because to Decide in this in decide the logical Problem now we are Political party in the same time we are Social social Movement we are social movement we have Activities in with the trade unions for example activities with cultural field, but now we our Vision is going to Sort of division of separation between the political activities and the social activities perhaps in Next March This our conference can they can decide our Congress will be held in Next March and can decide this in this problem Thank you Sam For a new she I would like to have my name I mean Mahmood from Center of Egyptian-American relations And I would like to have your advice What the Egyptian can do again is a fascist dictator? ship regime in Egypt Who killed his own people with women provided by United States and the West Keep giving them that and create a lot of radical people joined ISIS The coup happened 2013 while Tunis have a problem in that time. That's why a lot of Tunisian Join ISIS and many Egyptians join and the future is grim Many people will join ISIS and join all radical group Because the West is sleeping or they don't understand why ISIS exist after attacking Iraq and Immigrant from Egypt will happen if that situation continue down hill in Egypt and you talk about peaceful Resistance peaceful resistance is something we support But the young people again is that is a struggle between The old and the young people from Muslim Brotherhood and liberal group who are in prison also When you looking at above 40,000 prison in Egypt. Thank you I don't see any solution In Egypt different from the solution in Tunisia and everywhere is To commit to have Strong commitment with the peace with the democracy and the refuse any sort of React against the violence the official violence by popular violence because it can lead to more victims and more catastrophe so I My advice is to seek Reconciliation between the army and Juan muslim in and liberal and copped Because these bodies are well implemented in Egypt so why we lower we We know but why we Waste our time and our blood in fighting each other so This is the solution is to seek Real dialogue real consolation if the regime now now refuse Will be convinced tomorrow that there isn't any any sort any sort of exclusion is It's unpassed not not solution Sir, thank you. John Anderson independent analyst. I say how I should you were Something I believe over 20 years a political exile During the period of repression and Biden's under the St. Labudin been highly regime in effect in exile a form of amnesty in France in UK Following up on the the issue of Egypt reach relations a rather more specific question In the aftermath of the military coup in Egypt and the violent repression thousands killed Many hundreds continue to be jailed Not just if I was I mean, of course, but liberal and leftist activists as well Did during the period of the first I believe Mission government did any overtures Were any overtures made to provide political amnesty exile to Though those Egyptians facing repression, we know that many went to Qatar others found Exile and asylum in other countries. What was the position of the Tunisian government what? What offers were made of political asylum to Egyptians and if not by the coalition government then by has been not that or how to get not that What kind of positions were taken at that time and thank you Tunis Tunisia stop of it Hosted more than one half million Million and half Libyans during the revolution and until now Tunisia is open country Any Request from Egyptian to seek Asylum in Tunisia if someone did that I think Tunisia is part of the UN countries which Which Give the right of arrested or oppressed in his country to seek Any democrat country so to Tunisia is open So I think we have time for one more question here, please. That's Thank you. My name is Middle East news agency Egypt She crushed it I want just to ask you about how do you see the future of Muslim Brotherhood as a group especially that you said now that You encourage them just to stop violence and to resort to the peaceful Protests, so how do you see the difference between the elder? Leaders and the young who are now calling for Violence or for just violent as That Muslim Brotherhood is still an umbrella or for all Muslim Groups so far up till now as it had been before. Thank you. I I According of my knowledge, I didn't hear that one Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt But still refused React reacting by violence That's what I hear. I didn't hear that they belong now to the tourist group and become part of a guide of ISIS of even Britain with which Invest Investigate in this matter whether a whole muslim in our tourist group or not doesn't There are studies that one muslim in our not tourist group And I think another part of the question was the relationship between the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and other Islamist Partits and our our movement now the movement is Tunisian movement working within Tunisian law. It's independent But we have a relation with all Muslim in the world who are Do not use violence Shukr that is a that is a good ending for this we're Your presence here your message Of the existence and the possibility of Muslim Arab Democratic Moderate politicians and the ability to form those characteristics into a governing body into Tunisia Still with the challenges that both you and Robin have outlined Still in need of support from the United States and Europe and the international community But nonetheless you are showing that there is a Tunisian model that you've both both referred to So I want to thank you very much for being back here again I want to thank Robin for her good questions and her presentation Please join me in thanking Shekin Ruchi for