 Pursuant to Chapter 20 of the Acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted by a remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so in the following manner. By emailing stevemccarthias at mrstma.gov that's M-C-C-A-R-T-H-Y-S at mrstma.gov. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time by a technological means. In the event that we are unable to do so for reasons of economic hardship, and despite best efforts, we will post on the Amherst website an audio or video recording transcript or other comprehensive record of proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting. With that done, we'll call the meeting to order at 501 p.m. and take a roll call. Guest on? Here. Hallie? Here. Dylan? Here. Doug? Doug, good to see you. Here. Here. Hello, Doug. All right, so we're all here. Okay, so the first thing on the agenda is public comment and this is general public comment unrelated to anything that is on the agenda. So if you have general public comment, please raise your hand by pressing the raise hand button at the bottom of your screen and Steve will let you in. Is there anyone here for that? Don't think so. Okay, so let's go on to our first item licenses, change of liquor license, manager application, town of Amherst doing business as Cherry Hill Golf Course, 323 Montague Road Manager. And this is the new one, Steve, Raynaud Harp. And the last one was Barbara Bills. Is that what I saw from the application? Yes. Okay, great. As in the audience, I have invited him to become a panelist. Okay, fantastic. And Mr. Harp? Yes. There you are. Hi, welcome. Hi. So, did you want to just introduce yourself and talk a little bit about? Sure. I'm Ray Harp. I'm the director of recreation for the town. We, I came in to the position with Cherry Hill as one of our properties here that we've managed. And for the last year and a half that I've been on, it has been under Barb Bills, my predecessor Barb Bills' name. We figured at some point we need to make that switch because last year she was still with us in an advisory capacity. So she signed off for us. This year she's not with us. And so we had to go to Paul to get, to get his signature as a town overseer. And we wanted to just change that to, to my name as the new director. Okay, wonderful. Thanks. Thank you very much. Does anyone have any questions about this application or comments? No, if not, is there a motion to approve the change of manager application to Cherry Hill? Don't move. Thank you. Doug, is there a second? Second. Thank you, Dylan. Any further discussion about this? If not, we'll take a vote. Dylan? Aye. Gaston? Aye. Hallie? Aye. Doug? Aye. And I vote aye. That is five to zero, but change of manager application has been improved. Thank you so much for coming in. And best of luck with everything. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Okay. So next up is, we have the lunch carts. Can we have to do the seasonal liquor license? Oh, the seasonal liquor license renewals. I'll move to renew that license. Okay. Thanks. Is there a second? Thank you, Dylan. Any further discussion? I assume not. We'll take a vote. Dylan? Aye. Gaston? Oh, no, I'm going to be muted. Aye. Aye. Hallie? Aye. Doug? Aye. And I vote aye. That is five to zero. The seasonal liquor license for Cherry Hill is renewed. Thanks, Doug, for that. Okay. So now we get to the lunch carts. So the first one is, Steve, are the people here for these two? Yes, they are. Okay, great. And we do these. Why don't you bring in S&P Foodies Hub, Incorporated Doing Business as Thai Chili Food Hub. All right. Supitra, you should be a panelist and able to speak. Oh, good afternoon. No. Hi. Hi. Welcome, Supitra. Hi. Would you like to give us an introduction about your lunch cart? All right. One moment, please. Oh, sure. My name is Supitra Hillen Brand, I'm the owner of the Thai Chili Food Truck. So I have been doing the farmer market at the Amherst Common for the Saturday for like, this is my third year already. And I find, you know, I have a lot of great feedback of, you know, like a people that came and support me. And I feel like since I'm already there in Amherst on, you know, Saturday, and you know, I found out from Susan Malone and then that your guys do allowing the food truck to park there now. So I feel like that would be something that would be more, you know, something that I would like to participate and be able to do it, you know, because I find that with my food that I offer, that support the local farmer and stuff like that, that I can bring it to the table, that, you know, the street food that I offer, and I'm already there, it can be a great benefit for, you know, like a student or like a patron that's coming to the town. So, and, you know, I'm thinking that I, that way I can, you know, doing more days in Amherst. Close. Okay, that all sounds, all sounds really good. Yeah, we're excited about it. Does anyone have any questions for Supisha? Yes. Or about the, oh, sorry. Does anyone have any questions for about the license or comments? Oh, yes, Gaston. Yes, hi. Thank you so much. We're excited to have more food trucks. One, I guess first question is, have you had a chance to review the food truck or I guess that's not the term we use, but are regulations that go through the various, I guess? I know that there's a three-designate spot location that I can park. And I know that I just have to, it's like a first come, first serve, I do have to pay for the meter and the regulation is timing between eight to eight. Okay, thank you very much. One of the other items that we have on the regulations relates to the sound and pollution that is created by generators. Can you tell us a little bit about how your truck is powered for the cooking? Yeah, my truck is powered by using the generator. It's the Honda, it's very, what do you guys see? Very effective, like it doesn't be too loud because right now, like for the past two years that I did the farmer market early in the morning, like seven o'clock and parking on the side street and so far I never have any complaint yet. And I think it's the one that we use is very effectively. Okay, all right, thank you. Thank you. Is there any other question for me? Yeah, I just have one question. I'm a little prepared looking at this week. I haven't a chance to review all the documents. Is what were the hours of operation that you were looking to kind of what days? Because the time on the application, it doesn't really say specifically what time or what day, but I'm looking at between like, probably like some Thursday and some Saturday or Sunday. Yeah. Yeah, and were you looking to do like a later evening? Kind of what was the album you were looking for? If I'm gonna do it, I'm probably gonna be done like around seven o'clock, probably like during the lunchtime, like 11.30 until maybe seven that I'm looking for. And I mean, are you looking at at any point to be able to operate later to try to get, you know, the end of the night student bar crowd? Is that, you know, an area you might be interested in trying to appeal to, like the- With the bar? Like where? Yeah, yeah, the post-bar scene, you know, usually getting a, you know- Oh. Mark, are you looking at to be about that at all? Or is that really something you're not at? For me, if there's an opportunity arise in Amherst, I would take that into consideration, because to be honest with you, I lost the restaurant during the COVID, so that's why I minimal myself into the food truck. And if there's a time that allow the food truck to go in and do something all year round, like Amherst is one of the surprisingly tall that I didn't expect that your guys allowing the food truck to park, you know? So that would be amazing for me, you know? And especially, I know like in Amherst, you know, when I do the farmer market, even in the summer, it's still a lot of people walking around downtown, you know what I mean? So that's why I'm just feel like Amherst would be a best opportunity for me. Well, I mean, I'm not entirely sure what's being asked for, but I'd certainly support, you know, I'm all for supporting this late night food truck. I'm a high person, well known. So just since you're not maybe seeing the application Dylan, the request was for 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. And so I guess I wonder whether you may wish to, you know, have a later time in this application. So you have more flexibility. Because it's on the application itself, it's only around from 8 to 8 to park, that's why. That's why I just have to put it like, yeah. So, but other than that, like I talked to Susan Malone, there are some, a lot of private property or something that if they might interest it to contact me and have me park over there, you know? I think it might be based on the owner property to write a letter or something and then I can submit to the town. Well, didn't we just approve one, Steve, until very late? Parked over by Kendrick? Yes, so applicants can request 8 to 8 to default, but applicants can request later hours if they so choose. Oh yeah, yeah, you can request some, sorry, go ahead. Oh no, no, exactly. Just to say that, there's actually not a restriction on that time. So would you like to apply with a later time? Is it, do I have to do a different application or can I just using the same application and extend it, just in case in the future? Steve, can she do that? Just right. Yeah, I think she could make a verbal request right here and the board can grant it. All right. If you'd like to do that, yeah. Yeah, I would request that then. So, yeah. So what kind of time are we talking about? Dylan, you have a view about this. What would be your suggestion? Yeah. I mean, my suggestion here, I would say given that, you know, where that new truck is set up that's going to later, it is right by a residence and I kind of wanted to kind of get down to that residence. You're not going to get their feedback, just how the noise impact has been. You know, we haven't solidified moving over to other side of the street, kind of right along the same street where spoke is. So I'd be down to, I'd be fine approving another lunch cart there with that same kind of temporary, you know, trial period, like we're doing this for the end of throughout the semester to kind of see how it goes. And then, you know, we'll reevaluate for next semester whether or not we need to move it if we're going to do late night lunch carts. That would be my thinking. I'd say definitely approve this till, you know, the later night till the end of May. And then we could keep the tanks for the rest of the summer. That's right. We are bringing the others back in in about four weeks. Is that right to talk and see how it goes? Does that sound good to everybody? Yeah. Yeah. Are there any questions about that? So Steve, how would we approve that? I guess she can pick out a time to request to operate until and the board can move to, so grant that. I don't know if there's the time in mind anybody has, but. I mean, I'll just say the same thing. Let's do, you know, eight till two in the morning, you know, they can let them pick kind of experiment, see what hours work for them and their businesses. And then when we all kind of meet back here, I guess around June, once the semester's over, we can get a sense of how it went for them. And then I'll try to see if we can get a sense for what's happening in the neighborhood in terms of noise and foot traffic. Okay. All right, sounds good. Okay. Doug, did you have a question? Sorry. I was just going to ask Steve if he recalls what we did for the other ones. What time was it one or two? And is there a limit on how late we can go? I believe that was until two. And I don't believe the regulations have any restriction on the maximum. Okay. So we do that. And how did we word that last time? It was an approval until eight to 2 a.m. with a requirement that the applicant comes in at the end of June sometime to see how it goes. It was a temporary, right? I'd have to check the minutes. I think it was the end of May. End of May. And is that going to be enough time? Oh, sorry, guest on. You're muted. Oh, and Doug, did you have something to say? I think the issue that was leading us to have them come back was the location more so than the time. So I guess I'm prepared to move to approve this application changing the hours to 8 a.m. to 2 a.m. Okay. And I believe the late hours or different hours are restricted to specific locations. There's no limit on the number of locations that could be done for, but is there a location in mind that the board would like to grant this for? Or all pre-approved locations? I mean, I'll take that. I'd like to see, I guess, over by Kendrick because it seems like we're going to be getting food cart area going there. So I'd say by Kendrick till 2 a.m. And if we wanted to approve, you know, 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. or 8 p.m. for other locations as a separate one, I'd support that too. Yeah, with the license by default, they'd get the normal hours in all the normal locations. The late is just needs more specificity. Okay. So in that case, I just, to Kendrick Park till 2 a.m. until whenever our first meeting is in June. Does that sound good to everyone? Any objections to it or questions about it? So the motion I would suggest is to approve the license and also approve operating times until 2 a.m. in that Kendrick Park location until May 31st. Okay. Does that sound fine to everybody? Sipisha, any questions about that? Does that sound good to you? Yes. Okay. Is that, does someone like to make that motion? I think Gaston did. Okay, Gaston just made it. Did you make that motion? With what Steve added, move to approve the application as submitted with the addition that from 8 p.m. until 2 a.m. the food truck can do business at Kendrick Park. Okay. Yeah. So does that mean this Saturday I can talk into Amherst now? Yes. Yay. Exciting. Yeah. That's a second for me. All right. Thank you, Doug. Any further discussion about this? Hearing none, we'll take a vote. Doug. Hallie. Hi. Gaston. Hi. Dylan. Hi. And I vote aye. That's five to zero. That license is approved. Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you. Bye bye. Good luck. Okay. So the next one is the ice cream food truck. And this is scooping up smiles, LLC, ice cream emergency. And do we have, I will be, I actually will be. So we did. So Adele, you should be able to speak right now. Hallie, I may have accidentally demoted you to the audience, but I changed it back. What you may have to turn your camera and microphone on my apologies. There we are. It's okay. Hello, everyone. Hello. Hi. Welcome. Thank you. So you have an ice cream truck, right? Yeah. My sister and I, we just started ice cream emergency. It's a model ice cream truck and it's been a blast. We actually were out on the town green last week with the fundraiser with the Daffodil race. So we made our first debut last week. Fantastic. Very exciting. And you have, you're looking for a new food truck license for Amherst and let's see. Do everyone have a chance to look over the application? There any questions about this or comments or guests on? Well, I mean, you probably heard the line of questioning before. And so one of them is just, have you had a chance to read over our food truck regulations? So not completely. I'll be honest with you. We are still, as we're new, my sister and I, so we've been going for about a month now. We're still trying to figure out our business model and wondering if we're doing more catering, more vending and all of that. But of course, being a new business, we need to do it all. So when we heard about this through Steven and Susan, when we were applying for the other permits, we're like, hey, this sounds pretty cool as well. To be honest with you, I've been so out of the bar scene and the late night out in Amherst. I don't know where they would be but we're definitely interested in having other opportunities to do some vending and support the community. Well, just on that question, in addition to spelling out the nuts and bolts, we also have this request or desire to have the less loud generators and when that's possible. And I wonder if you could comment on that. I'm also not seeing the times that you are- Not the times of that. So I think that we would think more around lunchtime-ish is what I would think. And then also hearing about the late night, that might be something that we would be interested in too. So I wasn't quite sure how to gauge that timing but I'd love it if it's a sunny day and a nice day and we don't have another event, something too. If we can just pop on over, that really intrigues us. But I'm thinking not too early, unless someone really has an ice cream emergency at eight in the morning, but usually not. I guess you do need power. So how do you get your power? Yes, so we have a generator as well. It is the Honda and I have to tell you multiple people have been like, oh, your generator is even on and I'm not familiar with how many generators are and I've been told it's very quiet. So- Thank you, perfect. Yeah. All right, great. So are you interested in the... So I know that we've just kind of been the last two food trucks we've done and kind of been granting this later night, these later night hours for that location. Are you also interested in that? I'd love all opportunities if possible as long as there's no, you know, if it really is just on our scheduling as well, if there's something that you guys are wanting us to commit to, I just wanna have transparency amongst us all, of course. So, but I think it'd be fun. Okay, did everybody have a question? Oh yeah, sorry, go ahead, Dylan. Yeah, I was just gonna kind of respond to that. I mean, I think the idea right now is, you know, we use the board to kind of testing out this idea and seeing how it works, you know, seeing if we get any input from the community. The other side of that too is, yeah, we want you guys to kind of experiment as a business, as a food truck, you know, try it out. Does an ice cream truck at one in the morning when the bar is closed, you know, is that a killer time for you guys? Awesome, keep it going. If not, let us know that you'll probably be sticking more towards the traditional daytime hours. Sure. Do you foresee, I know once the UMass students in all the area of colleges go back to school, does that really diminish from what you've seen like all the night crowd and whatnot, I'd assume as much? Yes. The night crowd, yes, definitely. Okay, so that might be where we, you know, this month if we have a few, it'd be great to test it out. So yeah, I'll be your guinea pig if you allow me. Yeah, Doug. The other thing I was thinking is that, you know, in summer, which is gonna be a bit of a better season for you than January or December, I'm guessing, but the other thing is by, you know, the sort of default hours are 8 a.m. to 8 p.m., so by extending the hours, you know, past that, you know, in June, the sun doesn't set until 9 o'clock, so people are off and out and about, even with just families and stuff, till 8, 9 o'clock, so like, you know, those extended hours, you may not need a state of one, you can do what you choose, but what you may find is there's a sufficient number of people that want ice cream into the, not the late evening, but, you know, later than the sort of standard 8 p.m. timeframe, so you may find that works for you. So, you know, I'm open to the idea of, you know, granting extended hours as well. Okay, so sounds good to me too. So should we, if anybody has another question, shall we do a motion just like the last one, or, and how did, does that sound good? Doug, do you want to take a stab at it? So moved. All right, so Steve. We'll make, Steve put in the minutes with the... The same one again, except with the ice cream. Okay, and is there a second? Second. Thank you, Dylan. Any further discussion? If not, we'll take a vote. Gaston? Aye. Dylan? Aye. Hallie? Aye. Doug? Aye. And I vote aye. That is five to zero. The application is approved. It is approved. Thank you so much, and best of luck. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Thanks, very good. Bye-bye. Have a good night now. You too, bye. Bye-bye. Okay, so now we have a new common fixtures license application, Campus Pizza, LLC, 150 Fearing Street. And is there anyone here? Yes, he is. Oh, okay. But anybody came to be a palace. Okay. This is... Hello. Hello, welcome. Thank you. Thank you. And so you are campus, is it Campus Pizza? Yes, Campus Pizza on... Campus Pizza. Okay, great. Welcome. So would you like to introduce your application? So I wasn't aware that I had to be here for it, but I'm a little bit of an ojah. I'm an alum of UMass, and I just recently procured the Sunset Pizza and Grill, and it's gonna be a pizza place, just like it's been for I think the last 30 years or so, pizza, grinders, salads, and yeah, and we're just changing the name really. Oh, fantastic. If I answer any questions you guys might have. Wonderful, thank you. Does anyone have any questions about the application? I mean, I guess just thank you. Nice to see businesses getting new life. And I'm just curious about the continuity, whether the employees are continuing. And I'm just wondering about how it's working with your purchase. So, so far we've been anxiously waiting to get approval to open. To the best of my knowledge, there was a rotating employee base based on the students. And I have started interviewing and I'm not sure how many will be able to join me right away as the semester is ending. Got it. But going forward, as the colleges do come back, we do plan on having a large part of our front end, the counter, the delivery, and everything from as much as we can from the students to keep continuity, we will be looking to have more full-time kitchen staff. So, but they'll supplement and we're just trying to reach out in the best way possible and make a good product. And the kids fed. So, after they're done with their bar trips. Right. No doubt. And is this your first restaurant? No, my family and I also own the India House in Northampton. Oh, yeah. Yeah, great. This is my first solo venture. Okay. Congratulations. Thank you. Ellie? I think your predecessor, who you bought it from had for a period of time at least use the BYOB license. Is that something you're looking to continue as well? I think the students have more, predominantly looking at our, at our research, I feel like a big, most of a majority of our clients will be the students. And I think they have ample access to alcohol. They don't need me providing them alcohol. So I'd rather just sober them up with food and, but if it turns out to be something that we want to pursue in the future, I will definitely apply and come back to the commission to get your approval. Thank you so much. Any further questions? If not, is there a motion to approve the common victor's license for campus pizza? No moved. Thank you, Doug. Is there a second? Second. Thanks, Dylan. Any further discussion? If not, we'll take a vote. Doug? Aye. Dylan? Aye. Hallie? Aye. Gaston? Aye. And I vote aye. That is five to zero. The application is approved. Thank you so much for coming in and best of luck. Thank you very much. Glad you're there. Bye. Okay, so that's all the licenses for the day. And now we can move on to Mandy Chauhanike and Rob Moore who are here. Thank you so much for waiting and the rental registration bylaw discussion, residential rental property bylaw, sorry. And I think at our last couple of meetings we weren't able to get to this too much. And Mandy, thank you so much. Mandy did send around some scenarios which I think we'd asked for about when an appeal might come before us and what types of situations might lead to that appeal. So I don't remember, has everyone looked at those? Do you remember have those to mind? I think I have them somewhere. But since we have them both here, are there any questions, initial questions about it or? I wonder if you could just kind of take us through those examples so that we can visualize the need and how well we are prepared to serve that need. Right, I think the first one, and Mandy, correct me, is the multiple that had a temporary permit and needed to make a consistent repairs to the property and had failed to do so, was that right? And then ultimately was denied, was that right? Yeah, we've got a conditional permit option written into the bylaw right now for the inspection fails. And this one, I will say, I kind of just made these up. And I'm thinking maybe these are some that the building commissioner might deny a permit for but you can probably say more. But for this one inspection happened, it's conditional permit, you get 30 days, it's still not fixed, you get another 30, it's still not fixed. So in the end, the commissioner says, I'm just denying your permit, we're done. Like you're just not showing initiative. So, and then the owner would appeal. Right, and then that would come before us. I'm just trying to, like on what grounds would we be well-positioned to say, Rob really screwed this up, he's not being reasonable. We're gonna overturn his judgment that on this inspection license. Rob, would you like to answer that? Hi, everyone. Hi, welcome. Thank you. I guess probably not likely that you're gonna say Rob screwed up and need to overturn a denial of a permit. I think the board or the commission's gonna be in a position to ease up on the penalty or whatever is imposed on the applicant, whether it's a denial, setting a timeframe to be able to reapply. I'm thinking this is gonna be more used in the suspension or revocation scenarios where appeals and your work would be needed. And I say that expecting that we're gonna be making some big changes if this by-law gets adopted on how we operate currently as a complaint response only program to a more active code enforcement, proactive code enforcement department and being more aggressive for properties that have non-compliance. I think we really have to make that shift. And I think this commission will hear appeals and be able to decide if improvements that are proposed by the owner, some sort of a compliance plan or perhaps even a new owner. In some cases, the properties change hands that when during a suspension or a revocation and the commission could hear a new owner's perspective on the property and decide to set aside that suspension and give them a trial run or whatever it might be. So I think that's gonna be the role for the commission under appeals. So it sounds like the space would be for us to basically grant mercy. Exactly, instead of justice. But you know, this is something I teach in my class. There's ways of different ways of thinking about justice but it's just that the rules exist for safety and if you've made your judgment, Rob, it's based on your professional assessment of condition and remediation. And I'm really struggling to see how we would feel well-positioned to say, you know, Rob's being too strict here. We're gonna side with the owner. So the bylaw is at least in its current form is shaping up to be very prescriptive on the penalties. So if there's three offenses or whatever it might be, however the numbers work out and a suspension is for six months, the bylaw is stating that. So, you know, I think it's going to be under appeal where given the certain circumstance and I might even be supportive of it that, you know, the 90 day suspension, maybe that's enough in a case where it actually was a six month suspension and here's why. So I think this bylaw is taking away a lot of that discretion that we have now. And as you probably know, we don't suspend permits. That wasn't the intention of the current program. So I think with those prescriptive measures in place, there will be that opportunity to consider certain things. And I, you know, aside from where I started with this conversation, it absolutely is an opportunity for the commission to make sure that all the proper steps were followed. I'm confident that would happen, but you never know. And other people will be in this position someday. Things can happen. So I think that is a role that is of the commission and a, you know, what the applicant deserves is to be able to make that case to the commission and have that heard. Oh, so just to give them an opportunity for some kind of public hearing. And what is that you're saying? Well, the opportunity to state their case that maybe there was an error in the flaw in the process that may not come down to whether or not, you know, the plumbing was leaking, you know, that might not be the issue. This commission will not be making judgment on a code matter. That would be, you know, something that's handled through the state appeals process. They won't be, you won't be making decisions about zoning violations. It's more about the process and where we go from there to get the permit reinstated. OK. Yeah, Gaston? I guess the, so, you know, this reminds me, I guess, of, you know, very strict sentencing guidelines or something. And it sounds like this is being drafted so that you actually have, you don't have a lot of discretion on these questions. Your office doesn't have discretion on some of these questions, Rob, right? And Mandy? We're going back and forth on the final languages, you know, about shells and maize. And, you know, I think I keep trying to loosen it up a little bit. But, you know, it certainly has started off to be, you know, a lot of shells. And I understand why people want to see things happen. And I think we will be aggressive, whether or not no matter what the language says, but I'll let Mandy add to that. Yeah, so we've removed a number of the things that would cause a suspension or revocation to begin with. And then the denial, the denial is a little more straightforward, as Rob said, in terms of if you don't meet the requirements, it should be denied. But we do have that conditional permit in there to try and allow things to be worked out before a denial. But for suspension or revocation, what we have right now is that the code official may revoke or suspend when there have been more than three notices of violations issued within three years. And so, you know, given what Rob has said, what I could see is if he's, you know, if our town's just having problems getting compliance with someone and those three notices of violation have been issued, Rob may choose to suspend. And the first suspension, we've got timings into how long that suspension is. The appeal allows the Board of License Commissioners to, the big one is to enter into the consent agreement. And so if Rob chooses to suspend, maybe that has been, his decision is to the only way to get cooperation. It's sadly to send it to you, right? For that consent agreement. That, you know, in some sense that or something else. There's other options for enforcement. Beyond the suspension, but that's one way to sort of start that negotiation between the town and the owner, if there just has not been cooperation, is to issue that suspension and then bring it to you. So I think Rob's basically right on this. And then what Gaston said, you'd be, in some sense, granting that mercy, but being that facilitator of conversation, if the relationship has potentially broken down so much that whatever Rob's office has been doing has not been working for whatever reason, is one thing I would say. But yeah, we're still going back and forth on it. I mean, I guess my question is, why shouldn't Rob be able to establish, enter into the consent agreement that is a variation on the options that are now given to him? Why do you need us to get into the consent agreement? So Rob gets to issue orders to remedy right now. And those are basically for inspection violations. I guess there could be other ones. Rob could correct me, which has all of the follow-up and all. And so there's a lot of leeway there. I think the thinking from CRC is once Rob has made a choice to suspend that a separate entity or a different body would, given what KP law has told us, would give them the due process that KP law has suggested we provide in the by-law and has a separate entity. Yeah, I don't want the board of licensed commissioners to just be a kind of kabuki theater so that KP law feels like they gave you good advice. I think the other thing is, from CRC's point of view, and this is based on conversations, given some of the things we've done with other things, sometimes getting it out of the main enforcing body can be helpful for whatever reason. But in cases where Rob may choose to suspend, may he also choose some kind of tailored alternative to suspension of the sort that we might come up with under the proposal. So right now, and you brought up a good point that we don't have the consent sort of thing within the penalty sections. But that's in the suspension procedures and what the board of licensed commissioners can do. But what we do have is one of the abilities Rob has is to appoint a person in charge before suspending. He can require that a different person in charge be appointed as part of the penalties for violating the bylaw. So there are some things that can be done before suspension or revocation. We could think about it if the board requests that we put consent decree into those options too. We can certainly think about that and I can bring that back to CRC. Rob's got his hand. Yeah, Rob. I just want to mention that we also have the ability to establish inspection schedules. And that really would be our first approach in a situation of non-compliance is that we would mandate additional inspections by our office. And so I think there definitely would be a number of steps that had occurred before a suspension took place, attempts to bring the property into compliance. These are things we do now, including written agreements with owners and sometimes tenants are involved with those agreements to get to compliance. So we would still continue with those efforts. I think it's one that gets past that and we're not getting the results we're looking for. Then we're faced with suspension as a real option. And I just want to raise my hand for one thing. The consent agreement is also an option for Rob. Once suspension has happened. So it's part of the bylaw section, I don't know what the M3. So it's not under the penalties, it's under the section with suspension and revocation procedures. And one of the things is once it says the code officials empowered during the course of an administrative inquiry on suspension to enter in a consent agreement. So that can be done potentially instead of an appeal. So then it seems like the genuine role we might serve is just where the nature of the process means there's really bad blood between this owner and the code official. And we get called on as it's like they go to the other parent to see what we think. Potentially or if they don't like or can't reach an agreement on a consent agreement with the building commissioner after suspension, I could see that happening too. Yeah, Rob, did you have a question? Well, I just wanted to respond to that a little bit. And I would tell you about a recent case where the landlord's attorney got involved very aggressively contacting me, telling me all the things I can't do. And was really having trouble with the idea of issuing a daily fine for his client's non-compliance. And he filed appeal to the zoning board of appeals to have his opportunity to argue that and wasn't interested in discussing it with me any further. We still talk today. It's not like we don't communicate with each other. But he was in complete disagreement and wanted his opportunity to take it to a higher authority. And ultimately withdrew his appeal just before actually making his argument. And the property was found to be in compliance. But that has happened four or five times that I could think of over the years on matters that probably would be more directed under the appeal of this bylaw. But the zoning bylaw was a place that we do it at that time. OK. Doug, did you have something to say or a question? No? OK. I had a question. Yeah, go ahead, Dylan. Is there anything to be done in this bylaw? It would just be after so many attempts, somebody's like blocked out. There's no more going through the building commissioner than pass the bill toward the board of license if they want something reinstated. Did everyone catch that? Yeah, I don't believe there is. OK. I think our suspensions are six months. Right now it's six months and then 12 months. And so once that 12 months would be over, if you're currently under suspension, you can't reapply for a permit. But once the suspension is over, I don't think we've got any inabilities to reapply if you're not under a suspension. OK. Yes, Gaston. I guess I'm thinking based on Rob's comments that if we get an appeal, the party appealing is likely to be represented by council. There's a good chance. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I'm seeing more and more of that. You know, as soon as we get into some of these more serious situations, there's immediately representation. Both from landlords and from tenants now that works. You know, we're seeing quite often. OK. Is it? Oh, yeah. Sorry. Oh, I was just going to if it's all right, Marianne. Yeah, OK. Relative to that, I mean, I think that parallels what we see with legal license violations. And we have Brian from KP that joins us. It would probably be him, but maybe someone else from KP that would provide some support for us if we needed some particular legal interpretation on that. I mean, it's not quite as well defined as and prescriptive as the as the liquor license violations. But but I think we can parallel that and we would want to if they were coming for us to have that that support from council. OK, Gaston. Is there is it an option for the commission to be able to deliberate in private over our determination in such an appeal? I mean, I'm just remembering when we were put on the spot with Porta. I mean, it's, you know, it's to be a court that deliberates publicly on these kinds of questions that have pretty serious stakes for the party appealing. You know, that's courts don't do it if they don't want to. And, you know, we may have just heard a food truck license application. And now we're called on to make a determination that could have hundreds of thousands of dollars of implication. And so it's it's a little daunting to have to deliberate over that in front of everybody. And I wonder if if it's a constitutional requirement in this town for that to go that way. K.P. Low would be the final I was just saying K.P. Low would be the final arbiter. But given what we've heard on the council about appointments and how they have to be done in public, my guess would be as a public body, you'd have to do it in public. OK. Yeah, I was just going to suggest that we ask Steve to check with the council, Matt, because I think. You know, if there are aspects of the of the liberation that we might want to have, you know, it may be a thing where we might be able to go into an executive session or like you say, a sort of non-public component of it, but have some aspect of it definitely have to be public. So it's it's it's worth getting a legal opinion about that. For sure, I think. I mean, I'll just say again, what my my my discomfort with this whole process, this whole possibility is that, you know, we're not we're not we're not very good at ruling against the town as a commission, given the kind of work we do. And it would be, you know, it would be worse than than providing such an appeal to have an appeal that that seems to be a pure formality and destined to fail. And so that's why I'm being so, I guess, persistent to make sure there's actually a meaningful space for us to reach our own judgments and that that that may not be exactly what the town wants. And and that we are competent to do that. I mean, I think, again, this sort of, you know, just drawing the parallel on our our our liquor license hearings, those have to be done fully in public and they are very uncomfortable when you have to do that. You know, in a certain sense, as we've had to deal with, it's been fairly clear the the the actions that we need to take. But at the same time, there's perhaps a lot more subtlety and nuance to this. And and I think that's where it to guess on point, you know, either a rubber stamp or we actually legitimately, you know, deliberate and and make decisions. And that's difficult to do in a fully public arena. So yeah, I think that's that's well worth exploring a little bit and understanding what our options are and in whether there can be it may be something where there's components of it that can be done privately so that you can have that richer conversation that publicly would not be best serve anybody well, quite frankly. Yeah, I agree. I think the only time I think the only comparable thing that's coming to mind is when we had to revoke the high horse because that was landlord. I think it was a landlord tenant issue there, too. Right. And with lit, I think was something slightly similar. And that was also, again, we weren't reeling against the town. It was a private individual. And but it was it was it wasn't necessarily clear cut, I think, with high horse easy to ask for extra time. So OK. Yes, Mandy, I just want to say if BLC, if the board's not comfortable with the appeals, CRC would like to hear that and know that and love to hear any other options as to where the board might think it best to send appeals or whether the board would recommend we don't even have appeals, you know, we're we're not set on any one thing. We're really seeking your thoughts on this. And so if the thoughts are, we're not comfortable and you've got a better option or have a suggestion for a better option, we'll take that. OK. All right. Steve. I wanted to mention, I do believe that the statutory exemptions for allowances to go into executive session are pretty restrictive. But I do know that when the ABCC itself deliberates on appeals from local licensing authorities, they do have, you know, much more of a quasi-judicial format where they'll take testimony and then, you know, we'll kind of end the end the hearing and send send deliberate and send their decision on at a later date. So they're very well made be some kind of exemption there. But I do think it'll be a question for counsel. OK. So we should find that out, definitely. And, Gaston, I can see you have a question. I think that the space that I feel most comfortable that we've talked about is where we can come in and help create a happy compromise or we're we're hearing a happy compromise and. But I I think that we haven't we haven't been able to pinpoint exactly what that would look like, what case would put us in that position. OK. Oh, there's Dylan, who's first Dylan or Steve? Unless you want to go, Steve, I'll go. Yeah, right. I mean, I'll say that to maybe your question. I mean, one, just just an alternative, if you're looking for an alternative, I do think the ZVA is probably a board that is quick to handle this kind of thing. Oh, you're giving it its nature. But I will also say I think the board of licensing could also be well. What to do it sounds like, you know, the new bylaw or relatively new board. I think this could certainly be an area of, you know, some experimentation here to kind of figure out a good approach on how to handle this thing. I think, yeah, as it comes to us, I think that's really shown. It's really not entirely clear how we're going to handle that, but I think it's a board where we're equipped to explore that question. So I think personally, the board of licensing is a great place to send it. But I guess if you have a more defined idea of how that appeal should look, I do think the zoning board of appeals would be a good place to send it. It's a much more established body in its role and how it handles this sort of thing. So I guess that's a real question there, you know, we're looking to experiment. Hey, send it over to the board of licensing. I'm getting to try it all out, too. Yeah. Yeah, Doug, and then Steve. Yeah, I think the couple of things I'll mention is that I think that there's a. I mean, I think there aren't particular to work out to guess on fines. I think it's right. It doesn't want to be, you know, a charade by any stretch. But I think having, you know, appointed versus elected citizens way on this is good because we have an independent. And we're not as not as the hold into the voters in some respects. That gives you, you know, in most places, you want your judiciary to be independent of voting so they're not swayed by politics so much. I think that's helpful. I think also having a citizen group that can weigh in on this is helpful as well. It's it it I think might potentially prevent, you know, like we didn't have any appeal process whatsoever. Then the next step of remediation for these folks is to go to court. Because you're going to impinge upon their ability to run their business, right? And so this might prevent some of that. But I think it's, you know, the devil's in the details, as you well know you know, sort of what parameters and what space we're going to operate in. But I think there's there's broad reasons for for us that I think it's helpful for having an appeal process and having a group like the BLC be a group to do that. But anyway, I think we still have some more open questions, right? Thanks, Steve, did you need to say something? Do you have another question? My hand was up from earlier. But while I have the floor, I would be happy to reach out to counsel on this question of executive session. Man, do you like me to do that? Or do you have an attorney you're working with already that you think would be better positioned? So I had sent the last draft off to Paul to send over to KP law. So I can just append this question to that when I let him know that I met with you and they had the question so that they send it to whoever they want since they already have a copy. I'm not sure who at KP law he sent it to. It was probably Lauren, but I just can't guarantee. OK, they'll be well positioned to answer. All right, thank you, Dylan, Dylan, and then we'll get to you, Gaston, Dylan. I didn't have anything. I was. Oh, OK. Gaston, sorry about that. It's right. Mandy, since if you're going to add that question, I wonder if you can also ask them to look at the scenarios you came up with. And and have them a pine on what's the kind of scenario that is really most likely to show up and if they have thoughts about about that. I mean, I I'm with Dylan on the experimentation. I'll tell you that the case that I that made me the most uncomfortable was actually after the pandemic, when we were trying to think about how much to reduce some some fees. And we were kind of in an adversarial situation between Gabrielle Gould and Bob Ackleman. And that was very uncomfortable for us, at least from my point of view. And so being adjudicators of an adversarial process where the town is on one side and. I mean, in this case, it was someone else who we like to work with. That was hard. But I can just imagine that it might be hard in some of the some similar ways. All right, thanks, Gaston. Dylan, does you have another question? No, OK, I'm sorry, I'm seeing your hand button. I lowered it for you, Dylan. I had it up from. OK, OK, great. Thank you. So we are going to get the opinion of the council. Steve, your hand is up yet. But to Mandy, Joe's earlier question. I mean, we did have some several discussions about this before with the board. And we did have unanimous interest in pursuing this. So maybe to give her a little clarity, I mean, is that still the case that you all are still interested in taking this on? You're concerned with the the perception and the reality of fairness? Absolutely, I think so. Yes, definitely. OK. You should all be gables, though. Yeah. OK, great. Any other questions, anything else we wanted to talk about? Well, we have Mandy and Rob here. And, Mandy, I know you had to go around six, right? Yeah, I have to be at the high school at six thirty. Oh, OK, all right. Well, if there are no other questions for Mandy, thank you so much for coming in and talking about this. Really, really useful. Very interesting. And any other questions for Rob? No, OK, Rob, thank you so much for coming in. Thank you both for working on this. It seems like it'll be a huge improvement for the town. Yeah, definitely. So that's great. Thank you. All right. Thanks, Rob. Bye, Rob. Bye, Mandy. OK, so next up is our future agenda items. So obviously we've got to keep talking about rental registration. So but I guess we can wait to hear back from the attorney before we get into it too much. And then we had, let's see, we had Doug adult use. Is there anything going on with that? Do you want to put it on for next time or do we need to hold off on a little bit? No, I think I think putting it on next time would be a good idea. OK, it's last night looking through some stuff. You know, just getting myself reoriented to where I was and what I had at that point in time. And so you know, I'm hoping in a couple of weeks, yeah, I'll have something more concrete to sort of share with you guys on it and keep it moving forward. OK, all right, great. So we'll put that on for next time. I know Steve, we also wanted to talk about maybe in the summer, including Steven, I talked about expanding the locations for lunch carts since since we have some more interest, apparently. I think making a few more locations automatic with the license would be really nice. So we'll put that on maybe not for next time, but maybe towards June sometime. Yeah, the next meeting would be, excuse me, the next meeting after that would be June 1st. So actually that would be the day after our experiment ended. So maybe we can put that on for then. OK, great. Debrief with the lunch cart operators and. Fantastic. Think about that. That is good. And then is there anything, a big license, anything coming up, Steve? White line, brewery should be for the 18th. OK, great. So that may take a little time. Right time, brewery. And we'll do it. Don't use marijuana. We're going to are we going to hold off on rental regulations until we hear from the attorney? Yes, or do we want to just start talking about it? Next time. No. What does everybody think? No, I mean, I'd rather get feedback first. OK, is that OK with everybody? All right. And then we also wanted to at some point get into the flammable flammable liquids, which we didn't get to do. But that's a bigger project. I'm very interested in that one. So that'll be some time in the summer, maybe we can start on that. OK, any other. Oh, sorry. Now we're on to topics not anticipated. Forty eight hours. Oh, wait, oh, yeah, before we move off entirely. I mentioned this when we were talking lunch cards. Because, yeah, where they where they set up right now, their generator, but it's not silent either. And it is directly outside of a resident that I can see at night. You know, lights on windows, you know, with the blinds that there's people there that live there. So this weekend, I want to try to feel like and just swing by the neighborhood, knock at the door, see if anyone's there, kind of get their feedback. Steve, I want to get your take. Can I come grab like a business card from you or something? So I'm like, hey, if you guys have questions or interested in attending one of these meetings to get feedback, like, you know, to reach out to Steve McCarthy, sure. Can I kind of do something like that? Yeah, you can certainly do that. Yeah, OK, great. I mean, we couldn't get him to that June 1st meeting to get us to be back. Got it. So it's June 1st is the meeting. That's the Thursday. Yes. OK. Yeah, when I when I get ahold of them, I'll let them know. You want to get feedback June 1st is the day. OK, or they can email Steve, but you know, or email Steve any feedback, whatever they like. All right. OK, anything else for the agenda? No, any topics not anticipated 48 hours prior to the meeting? No, OK. Our next meeting is what is it, the 18th? Is the 18th at five that work for everybody? OK, great. Is there a motion to adjourn? Do we have a set of minutes to review? Oh, jeez. Sorry about that. Right. Sorry. Going too fast. Did we get a chance to look at the minutes? Yes. Are there any questions about the minutes? No. Is there a motion to approve the minutes? To move. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Dylan. We'll take a vote. Dylan? Aye. Doug? Aye. Gaston? Aye. Hallie? Aye. And I vote aye. 5 to 0, the minutes are approved again. Great. Now is there a motion to adjourn? To move. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Dylan. We'll take a vote. Hallie? Aye. Dylan? Aye. Gaston? Aye. Doug? Aye. And I vote aye. We're adjourned at 6 or 7 PM. Thanks, everybody. See you on the 18th. Bye. Bye. See you. Thank you, everybody. Thanks, Steve.