 Okay, according his own, let's pray and get started. Thank you. Let's Pray I'll just pray and then we start Father we thank you for another day another opportunity to Get together and learn share our thoughts explore ideas and be equipped God to Serve you to serve your kingdom to serve your people We pray God that the learning that happens today will be Anointed by the Holy Spirit that the spirit of God will be a teacher and will impart wisdom and part understanding for us and Help us do well as we serve you. We thank you father in Jesus name Hey Hey, good morning Everyone welcome to VC 3 1 0 church and ministry administration and Let me Go ahead share our post notes that we're using as a reference and We will get started So last week we just introduced lesson number four Which is church? And ministry organization structure, so you started talking about Organization structure So basically we're saying we're putting the right people in the right place Giving them the right roles So that they can all do to work together and we can function As an organization Right, so we can't just tell people okay come come come join do whatever you want We're all in ministry be happy. We can't do that The other people will not know what exactly to do You know, what am I supposed to do? What is my responsibility and what is the other person's response? They won't be clarity on those things. So it's very important to have an organization structure and Be also covered some some typical organizational structures we Said we can have something that's very functional that is The structure is a long functional lines what people do Or we can have it around divisions The division could be you know, it could be different things. It could be department-wise it could be geography not so these first central Divisions could be so they could be based on region so it could be based, you know Like I said business units or departments or things territories things like that So divisions could be based on different things but Organization is built around divisions or for us in church, we would say around ministries or departments The organization could be a flat structure So we recommended last time. It's good that the organization be as flat as possible We want so many levels, you know your report to that person that person repose that person that so by the time Yeah, so many levels by the time Information goes up and down. It will be a lot of delay. So the flat it is Information can flow very easily things can happen fast and Also, we talked about a matrix structure, which is kind of a mix between The the vertical and the horizontal you try to you know, there's a flow of information both ways horizontally across departments across functions and vertically across Leadership levels So you have a good matrix and so ideally we want our organization that is as flat as possible and as Open as possible that means information people can from different departments just interact as they means, you know so somebody from Publications can go and talk to somebody in IT and or in media or Whatever and then they can interact freely with each other, you know It's not like if you want to go to that and talk to somebody in that department You have to get permission from this one and permission from this one and then go and so we don't so many Intermediary steps just to have a conversation Better horizontally or what to do? And so we want to keep things as efficient as possible and one of the things we Used as a reference last week is how David himself organized So let's go in on bibles to first Chronicles chapter 23 So David was you know was a great king he He under David's Rule not only did Israel subdue all their enemies, but also They were really established as a nation he brought in a Lot of structure Order, you know, so although song was King's all was the first king It was his success David Who rarely established the kingdom made it strong And part of it of course he fought many battles. He had many victories. He overthrew many enemies extended that the borders All that was you know, he had a great army. We did all that But another major part of David's Rule was he brought in a lot of structure a lot of order and how things must function In a kingdom and if you think of it He was actually a shepherd boy There was actually somebody taking care of sheep and to come to this level to be a king and To administer a kingdom so efficiently It's truly the work of God You know David said the Lord made me understand By his hand upon me That was David is saying actually all this intelligence of his understanding was what God gave me by his hand upon me It was not something he learned. He didn't go to any business school or he didn't go to any You know a big trading place. I think he was a good boy He got a race to be king, but it was so amazing how he organized So we just look at some examples of how David did this in West Chronicles chapter 23 And we're not going to read you know all the verses. I just want to highlight certain things You could see And I and we're only looking at one part, which is how did he organize the tabernacle? But actually if you study chronicles first chronicles, you'll see he organized his army He organized his kingdom and He also organized the tabernacle, so we're only looking at the tabernacle, right? But you can see he had a very organized army Very tough many strong generals. It's like you're called the general saw, you know I'm your fishers. They had many such people But they're only looking at the tabernacle now. So first chronicles 23 So it says When David is old and full of days He made Solomon King. He gathered all the priests And the Levites were about this is first chronicle 23 verse three onwards He gathered all the Levites 30 years and above and of these 24,000 were to look after the work of the house of the Lord So 24,000 Levites, you look after the house of the Lord 6,000 were officers and judges 4,000 were gatekeepers 4,000 raised the Lord with musical instruments 4,000 musicians which Uh, which are made so they went for giving praise. So just think about it. He's organizing He's selecting all the Levites 30 years and above Come on. We're going to organize ourselves so that we can serve for properly We're not just coming here. Okay, everybody do something. No All of you from 20 24,000 of them To work in the house of the Lord, how did he put them? There were 6,000 Officers judges they're taking care of Administrative work gatekeepers taking care of Moving of movement of people There are 4,000 musicians was for was fight. Sorry Think about that then was six David separated into divisions or the groups The sons of Levi so even them he put them into groups And he had different groups of people and you know, all these names are here Then he arranges the priests. That's verse 13 And and and then he puts them all into, you know, how they should come and worship the book So we go to chapter 25. You'll see Chapter 25 first chronicles 25 versus one two eight Notice how he organizes them Verse one more of a David and the captains of the army Separate of a service some of the sons of Asaf of Haman And jetted them who should prophesy with harps trained instruments and symbols The number of skilled men performing their service was And then you find the different things. So he had three main you would say like kosher bleeding Asaf Haman And jetted Top like you say, we would maybe we'll call them worship pastors main people You're going to prophesy and sing with musical instruments But under you you're having all these people Right, so it says verse two Second part of verse two the sons of Asaf were under the direction of Asaf who prophesied according to the order of the king verse three the under the direction of the father jedut The sons of jedut who prophesied with the heart to give thanks and to praise god And then verse five All these were the sons of him and the king see and the words of thought exalt his Or horn Verse six all these one of their direction of their father For the music in the house of the lord with symbols trained instruments and harps For the service of the house of the lord Okay, then it says here. So basically Verse seven there were two hundred and eighty eight song leaders so three three You can say worship pastors Asaf Jeduthan came in under them all their people totally 288 Think of it 288 These are people who are going to sing prophetically yet four thousand musicians 288 singers Under these three leaders Who are going to sing prophetically with their house The organized and then It says verse eight They cast lots for their duty as small as well as the great the teacher with the student And then you see they were all how many you you see the 24 Slots Till verse 31 if you look at first chronicles 25 verse 9 to 31 There were 24 groups Every hour One group worship one one hour So this is very organized Where in the worship of god You know, so we are just looking at one part of how he organized that When you come on into worshiping god Yes, there is The holy spirit is moving. Yes, god is treating us But we look at the example of david He organized them so well And these are big numbers of people 4000 musicians 288 singers And then you come in 20 there are 24 groups Every group come and you do your part Very organized So Just the example and of course even when he then first comes 28 when he starts building the temple He goes about it in a very organized way And yeah, let's go to first comes 28. I wanted to point out those verses where David says, you know, all this was given to him by god first chronicles 28 To look at verse 11 and 12 As as david For the temple, he says then david gave his son Solomon the plans for the vestibule its house His treasuries his upper chambers in the chambers in the plage of the musseed And the plans for all that he had by the spirit Verse 12 Verse chronicles 28 verse 12 says the plans for all that he had by the spirit That means How did david plan the temple? Solomon built the temple but david planned for it And it says the plans were given to him by the holy spirit And then you also look at verse 19 after he explains the plan to Solomon he says All this said david the lord made me understand in writing by his hand upon me All the works of these plans all the details of these plans So he's saying david is saying the lord made me understand The lord is the one who gave me this wisdom to put these plans together You know, so we can see and I mean just looking at one example where How david organized He created what today in modern language, you know in modern terms would say he had a good organizational structure to have worship in the temple And he had a good blueprint to build the temple Okay, he was not a businessman. He was not an architect How did he have the knowledge? david said the lord by his holy spirits Made me understand So the point is this that even when we are thinking about organizing planning Remember that the holy spirit will help us to do that work well You know We can't say oh Holy spirit only helps us in preaching and teaching Organization planning and all we don't want that is all earthly human work. No, no, no The holy spirit anoints the holy spirit gives wisdom even for such things And so that we can do it well And it will be for the glory of course. It's a beautiful example in David So, so let's move on. Let's talk some other things. So why must we have a well-designed Organization, you know, so why you know, why can't I why can't I just say, okay, everybody do what you want feel free happy Why why must we think about this? Why must we You know really pay attention to having some an organization that is well designed You know, you know some reasons So that responsibilities can be clearly Assigned and that will make sure that there is no confusion between the roles And there is proper coordination. So people know whom should I go to if I want to get something done Who shall I ask, you know, I go to the right person That's and we can coordinate We can also ensure communication Ideas we can share ideas skills We can make quick decisions. That means People can you know, who are the responsible people we can make the decisions We can be efficient and productive in our work And also we can have a healthy work environment so that there's no stress or conflict Think between, you know, people are working. So all these are benefits of having a well-designed organization If we don't have it, then there'll be a lot of confusion Coordination will be lacking People won't know whom to go to to get to make decisions Organization will not be productive if we should and some and very often there'll be a lot of stress and a lot of conflict So The organizational structure and design It must be intentional. It must be systematic and planned. It should not be haphazard It should not be driven by Politics and people wanting position power is that, you know, those would be the wrong ways to design it Somebody will come and say, no, I want to be the leader. Oh, you want to be leader? Okay, I'll make a position for you. I'll make you a leader Simply you give that, you know, create something make him a leader or hardly a leader Has no purpose no meaning So it's not It is it is very intentional very systematic and it's not haphazard It's not to make somebody happy or, you know driven by politics and things like that As I mentioned earlier It must be as flat simple and clear I don't make it too complicated. Keep it simple And it must be continuously improved you know, that means Just because we had a structure a certain structure say six months ago Doesn't mean it's going to remain the same right we can We can reorganize That means we can change the structure Right unlike a physical building. This building is set in stone Yes, we can renovate it but through renovated is a lot of work Right to break down walls put on it's a lot of work But unlike this physical building an organization is basically people and roads So it's more easy to change, right? And the reason we change is maybe if we change it we can perform better We can make things more efficient Or maybe there is a new needs a new ministry area Now Things that there's so that many reasons good reasons, genuine reasons for us to reorganize to change to reposition people and so on And it must be easily scalable scalable means If today I'm serving 10 people If I have to serve 100 people If I have to serve a thousand people If I have to serve 10,000 people Can we grow the organization the way it is structured? Right, so that's scalable and it should be able to grow expand If I put a structure where it cannot grow then it is going to limits Right for example, if I just get yourself Suppose I am the only person making all the decisions It's not a scalable model because As there are more people more ministries more decisions have to be made And if all those decisions have to be made by me It's practically not So what do we do? We appoint leaders It's a hey Each area ministry there is a ministry leader or there's a pastor They will make all the Day-to-day decisions all those things they will take cover Only important decisions will come to me So then they will gain experience Then at some point even though So if they're right now if they're coming back saying for 15 decisions to me Maybe after five years I can say hey You only bring five decisions the remaining 10 you only do By the time they've gained experience they know how to handle it So I can push it out and that's a scalable model Right, so we have more people We can and they will do the same with Their team leaders and so on's volunteer team as they will delegate more responsibility So that's a scalable model If everything is in my control, it will not scale. It's not possible Now what are some tests of a good organization design like How do we know that the design we have the way we have structured right now is good Right, so we can ask some basic questions some practical questions Um the first question we can ask is Is the organizational design that is the structure of the organization It is it aligned To the people we are serving So it's very important Okay, the people we have served who are we serving? And do we have a structure That is aligned to serve them Right, so example We are a local church. ABC is a local church Who are we serving? Well, primarily we are serving people who are in the city right here so We example we have a office We have a structure to now that We are working with the day We are not on call 24 7 Like this is not our office is not open 24 7 We are there from morning 9 to about 6 o'clock 7 o'clock Everybody goes home Uh, and we are working now. Is that sufficient to care for the people so yeah most of the Because our people there are not you know emergencies every day that they have to be working 24 7 That doesn't happen So we are able to meet the people but of course Are the people we are serving Uh, you know what all over the country all over the world And we said our office only works 9 to Indian time 9 to 6 And we are serving all the people you can call us any time for bread. Well That's a missus because there will be people in other time zones They will call during their time, which would be evening time here and nobody's there in the office to answer the phone Then something is wrong Right, so we would need a structure That is able to support people from different parts of the world Handle call that is getting a simple example, right? Um, but like that, you know, are we aligned to serving the people? You know aligned to the people you're serving who are we serving? I was aligned to them secondly Does it enable people to add value and contribute meaningfully? so if the structure we have stifles people that means People feel like I can't share my ideas. I can't come up with new things. I don't have the freedom to do something new something different Uh, I just have to keep doing what was done 10 years ago five years ago or last year I have a new idea and they feel very stifled The people feel they cannot contribute meaningfully right Are they going to add value? Then that kind of an organization Uh, it's not healthy. It's not good actually Because we need to let people add value because everybody has certain talent They have certain new ideas fresh ideas Maybe it's different from the past But they should be able to share it. They should be able to contribute and we should be able to you know Do some new things. So there's the organization facilitate that um, is there alignment between employee strengths Uh, and and how the organization is structured. Yeah, so that means are the right people in the right place right But are we just putting people randomly? Oh, you're my cousin. You're here. You're my uncle. You go there. You're my Father's friend. You go there and we're putting everybody in the places. They don't have the skills to do it They don't have the desire to do it, but they have the position Then it's nothing will happen They're all there But they don't have the skills. They don't have the competencies. They don't have the interest That's it'll nothing will work So We have to is that organization design does it enable Uh departments units to function as they should and in every every department function freely efficiently Uh, does it enable easy interactions between departments or ministries units? Is it minimalistic? Is it as flat as possible? So these are some questions that we can ask and I've just given one simple example Suppose um There's a person a who does the work And this person a does the work and needs to get that completed work to person d But if there are two people in between b and c All they do is they forward They receive the email from person a and they forward to person He sends it to be we just forwards that email to person c person c just forwards it to person b So actually person b and person c Are of no use They're not adding any value They're simply sitting and forwarding the email as so they did the work, but they didn't do the work The work was done by person a It has to reach person g So the simple solution is hey person a email it directly to person d. That's it. Just hit it Unless person b is going to add some value like maybe they take that information They look at it review it They add some comments. They add some analysis. They make some recommendations And and then they pass it to person the next person person c Person c adds their own information to it does something useful and then it comes to d then it makes sense But if they're just forwarding the email It's a waste of time and waste of some two people sitting in between doing nothing They're not adding any value, right? So what must be must to eliminate such kind of things So those kind of things we'll find in government office This one will take the file and take it from this table and put it on this table Then they'll take it from this table and put on that table Where does it have to go? It has to go to the manager So what it has to stop and between these people may not do anything They may just put it on top and send it under our stamp and they're not adding any value to The actual content. They're not adding any value to the whole process So what do we say? Eliminate b and c. We don't need them They don't need to be in this loop You know person a can just send it directly to person b You know, that's just we need to be efficient to move unnecessary steps in between There should be checks and balances So that we have control on what is happening what's happening in the overall organization And we want to minimize based off our source. So of course The organization design has to be we have to think of the design that everywhere there has to be checks and balances You know Everywhere there is the use of people time and money There has to be checks Otherwise People time and money are resources. They could be wasted if somebody is being sent to do some work That is really not useful. Then that person's time that person is being wasted right or Time people's time or resources. So everywhere you have to intentionally put checks and balances that And it has to be put into the organization because one person cannot be checking it It's not possible. So what do you do? You put checks and balances. You tell different people You check this you check that you check that you check so that we Have make sure controls are everywhere throughout the organization and people time money three things people time should not be wasted You know Sometimes we think only money Money is important. I'm not saying no because People have given their tithes and offerings for the work of God So money has to be carefully, but we must not forget time and people If one person is standing somewhere full day from morning till evening What did you do? I'm standing here waiting Waiting for what somebody to do their work So the person who's standing and waiting He and his time and his skills have been wasted for one whole day He could have done something very useful for that that whole day He as a resource has been wasted You saw we sent him on work. What works stand and wait. That's not work. That is a waste You know we can we have to stop that waste. We have to find an efficient way Say instead of you going there and just standing and waiting make a phone call If the work is done, go and pick it up. If it's not done, don't go Use your day to do something else. See that's a better way of making use of that person Other that person's Whole day is gone time and him as a Him and her as a person resources. So we have to put those checks and balances make sure things are all going fine and number eight, which is important is The organization should be able to do some new things new strategies We should be able to rapidly accommodate change Hey, so, you know think about Hobbit time, you know, they had 20 22 sorry 20 20 20, right 20 20 So suddenly something happened. It was unexpected none of us even saw it coming the question is Could we quickly make the changes we needed to adapt to this new environment you know and I can speak for ourselves and I'm sure many other churches and organizations were able to adapt but Immediately they said, okay, you cannot have church service because gatherings are not allowed Everything it does not it's not just the church. It was just Sorry, but nice It's not just the church it was everywhere that people are not allowed to you know gather in large numbers So we couldn't have church all churches everywhere had to stop. So then what do you do to go online? Okay, we'll go online, but even online you can't come together and do the broadcast because even Gathering of four or five people were restricted So you can't even get a team together. It's okay. Now we are going to go online so Immediately, okay. He basically had to go from home or you know, wherever you have to go online Until you know restrictions relaxed. Okay. Now they said, okay smaller groups for five people can come together Do those things so every step of the way we had to adapt we have to make sure things Think differently think work. They're still working as an organization people are working from homes But how can you make this up? And so for example, I was thinking about our children's church service It's obviously we couldn't have children's church. Children can't come together but We said, okay We can do online children's services, but how are we going to do it? Because we can't come together and record. Okay everybody record at home send your your part of the video to our Media person he will stitch stitch it together and he'll upload the video So we immediately put a process in place So people had gone back to their homes in different parts of the country fine every week We had one person would write the script. This is what is coming up next week the script for it These are the people who will do the different parts of it Send it all of them. They'll all record it at home. Wherever they are send your video to one person He will put it together put the music everything together upload So we were able to adapt. I'm just giving one example so So there'll be different situations where we have to adapt here think differently do something different Change our schedules whatever whatever and so the organization should allow us to do that. So that's a good Organization design. So there's eight questions that we can ask Uh, to just see if the design we have is it good? Is it efficient? Is it really going to help us? So let me pause and see if there are any questions any questions online any questions from those who are in class Any any questions so far? In the process Yeah, so the quick quick questions the question is sometimes We have people who are part of the process who are really not adding value To the process like we saw in the diagram Person a is doing the work He has to send his completed work to person d But in the middle there is b and c but actually not adding any value. They just And but it is a waste because We have to pay their salaries They're not really adding any value to the organization in that in that process They are themselves being wasted. They they have talents. They have abilities which They're not usually contributing to the organization. They're just like forwarding an email or moving a firework You know, so what do we do? well Generally, and I can just speak from what we we try to do here is we try to see if There is another place in the ministry where Their skills can fit You know, so okay, there are two people b and c we can take out They don't need to be here in this spot But is there any other place in the ministry in what they're doing? But the skills that we has can be positioned per there And c the skills that he has can be positioned him there Will they be able to do the work that we can't just move them somewhere simply but they should they should be a match So then if that if it's like that, then we will talk to them and we'll talk to them politely Say, you know, thank you so much for being here serving in this place We'd like to move you to another role Of that and this is what the role is. This is what you'll be doing. But are you interested in that? Um, if they're interested good If they're not interested, then we'll say look, uh, you know, we'll have to have the difficult conversation of saying that We can't keep you Right because it's a waste of money. It's a waste of that person So either you move to that role Or you leave the offices And there's nothing wrong Uh It isn't it is it isn't difficult but We always have to make decisions With the best interest of the organization and the person Right the person sitting here and not doing anything. It's not good for them. Also I'm just sitting and not doing anything. You're wasting your life So it's better that they go and find another job or find another ministry where they can serve Do something meaning it's good for them And it's also good for the organization because The organization will save That much money and time So the first thought is can we move them to another place? Within the organization if there is an opportunity Then we'll talk to them If there is an opportunity then they had to say, you know, could you please another Now we have a process for it. We usually have a one month period So we give them one month to look at it In some cases we have given them three months the uh If things we tell them in advance three months, but we give you three months to transition to find a job and things like that. So Usually if they've been with us for a long long time But then they'll give them three months but if they have, you know, they just be since Then our our our standard is one month transits Any questions from Any other questions go ahead. Yes Uh, are they related to the conversation and any account? Yes The So the question is Is the administration accountable to the congregation if so in what way? Uh, do we give them information all the minute details? Do we do that? That's a question And if a staff is released Uh, will they remain in the congregation or will they go somewhere else? You know, what actually happens? So uh, these are good very good questions. So Uh, so all our I would say almost all of our church staff Are people who belong to our congregation? Almost all and we always prefer hiring people who belong to the church because They have the culture the mindset and they're actually involved in what's happening in the church. So the decisions they make are Relevant to what's happening in the church, you know, so that we feel that's very important So we usually give preference to hiring from within the congregation But we do have people who are from other churches who are also on staff So, uh, which is fine. We don't prevent that Or we give first preference to you know, like if they have the right skills we hire from within the congregation But we also have hired people from other churches. Even now we do have um In Bangalore, you know church staff here in Bangalore. We have at least Like in our church staff, we have at least one person um Who belongs to another church he worships another place And then we have like lots of our other consultants meaning they're not full-time staff They do some work because they belong to other churches in other places. That's fine. So So that's the first thing right second is We do not communicate everything all the decisions to the congregation It's not needed the congregation doesn't need to know All the day to day there are so many decisions that are made so many things they're doing So many different ministries that are happening Um, we don't communicate all the decisions. So how do we uh, how are we accountable to the congregation? one is Uh, of course, we make sure that we we do everything right. We do everything internally. Everything is clear every year We send a Year in review report. So that usually happens in the last week of december where we send a report Of all the ministries and the finances to the congregation to people. It's an open report So that everybody knows This was what was spent in all the ministry areas financially. So once a year we do the report plus our Financial report audited financial that means it is being checked by the auditors. We put it up on our church website That is our way of being accountable to the congregation saying hey You know, this is what happened this year And here's also the audited report that goes on the church website. Anybody can see it Anybody can ask questions So that's our way of being accountable But we don't tell them all the day to day decisions, you know hiring of staff leaving staff We don't be Of course, if there's a new staff, you know Full-time staff that picture will go on our website, you know, so people can see it, you know And whereabouts needed we will inform especially if it's a pastoral road Like a new pastor comes in or the pastor leaves Something like that at a pastoral level we will inform But all the other stuff we we don't inform because they're all working inside the organization Okay, so now when we dismiss people or people leave Working from the church different things happen Some of them will stay in the congregation though. They may not be working for the church When we release them they continue some of them may move on they You know, if they find Roles at places somewhere else, they go that's fine But we try to keep good relationship with everyone, you know, the there's no negative feeling Because organization has to run as an organization We have to look at it from a very practical standpoint and We try to treat everyone well try to treat the people well, so I would say that Not everyone stays they move on and we don't stop them from moving um, but We try to keep good relationships But and and sometimes we've found that sometimes people leave because they go abroad Just even last week One of our person was working. He left he went for Germany went to Germany So he was working with us He went to Germany. It's good. It's good for him. It's his future So like that a lot of people have worked with us Have gone to many different parts of the world Uh, and they've got jobs and they're working there Which is good Any other questions Yes, two minutes. We have two minutes. We can take up a question. Go ahead Uh, so you said we can make some changes in the structure Can you just Give us an example if we haven't made a changing structure So Yeah, so, you know many change so the question is You know, we were talking about how we can reorganize we can change the organizational structure and In fact, we we keep doing it like Almost every year We keep changing refining the organizational structure Um, so example and And I can look at, you know, different departments different areas of ministries where we changed Now in fact this last year itself. We did many changes I'll I can mention a few so when we came out of the pandemic And we had to restart All the in-person services One of the changes we made many changes but one of the changes I can think of is in the children's church area Pastor Selena was our children's church pastor But then we restarted I said, okay, uh, I requested her you don't continue as uh, children search pastor I'd like to have two younger people Step into that role. So we had Karen and Sharon. They were two young People we give them the role of children's church pastors because During the pandemic, they were the ones who are handling the online services Because they were kind of more in touch with uh, technology So when we resumed I said let them be children's church So pastor Selena will be in the background She moved more like a mentor to them because another reason is we wanted to start raising up the next generation in that area So they took some time to kind of settle in learn how to do it All that but she was there in the background being a mentor and I said you we gave her a new responsibility. It's like uh, the single adults ministry Give it to her We gave her the women's luncheon. So if you handle this But as the children's church you give it to these two new younger people so they can take this So that is one change we made We also made changes in the worship area. For example, the pastor jay Kumar was our worship pastor Uh russian Jonas was a youth pastor And we shifted we said, okay Russian Jonas would take on the worship pastor role pastor jay Kumar will focus on the south and Two new areas Member care and he wanted to launch a new ministry called life coaching So we gave that to him. So pastor russian Jonas took over Being a worship pastor And then we brought in some new Sam Matthews too and the youth pastor. So here was reorganization But it it proved so good because when russian Jonas took over as worship pastor In three months, they wrote 13 new songs Our worship team in three months, there were 13 new songs. Actually next week and we are recording seven news Sorry four new songs and then they'll record another three. So It just happened Now he was so passionate about it. He got the team to write new songs Um, and then the youth ministry was just took off very well And then we were also able to launch life coaching Which was a shape and also so all of these things, you know, really strengthen all these different areas Which we really needed to grow and strengthen in But in order to do that, we had to reorganize there to move people in different places And change and we have a culture where people are open to change. It's not like hey, I have this role I will never move That we don't tolerate if you don't move in sunday or It's that you know So when we say there's a reason why we have to reposition people Because we do it for the with the with how we want the organization to grow And just looking at it with just these small changes. There's been so much growth That's happened in all these areas so It's been good. Okay. That's a good question and I'll be over time Let's take a break. We'll go for a 10 minute break and come back. All right. Thank you