 Very quickly, but we're going to do the circle type of thing we did to begin it. I'm going to go, I thought I had copies of these, but I don't. So I'm going to run the office and make copies of it. Okay, perfect. So, I mean they were emailed it if they were here, but they weren't. If they weren't, yes. I agree. And so, that'll take me a few minutes. So, welcome and I see some faces that weren't here last time. So thank you for coming this time. The school start committee members that are here so far are Allison Cornwall, Ruben Bennett, myself. And then, of course, Bill Kimball, our superintendent, he's making some copies right now that are the questions that we generated from the last forum. Anyone who was here last time got those by email, but we did bring print copies. If you weren't here last time, please fill out the index card so that we can get you in the group of follow-up. And the questions are on the sign over here, where we'd like to know your name, your child's name, and grade school, and your email as well. So, yeah, real quick on that poster right there. I'll turn it over to Bill first. Great, Karen, you don't need me. Destructor, but if we stay this small a group, I'm thinking that because you have three board members here, that we'd probably just like two tables. I think so, yes, with a number of people here tonight. That'd be great. To do it the best. So what we wanted to do was, like we did last time, we started with a circle just to do introductions and say, if you're new to the group, what question do you have or comment do you have? And if you were here last time, we're going to add a little bit to that, which is what have you thought about? Did a new question come or did you say, hey, a light bulb went on? And try to keep it to a sense. We're not trying to have a page essay here, but just a way of introducing yourself to the group. I think linking about connections you have to the school, your kids might be in the school here in the system, and either of those two prompts, as I put up there on the poster board, I'll give you all a minute to think about that, and then I'll ask for someone to volunteer to go first. And you have to be within the circle. I'm fine here, really. Well, we're close. It's not really. It's possible. We will get under that sort of thing. Which one direction would you like to go? I won't go as way for teams in the left, which I'm not sure. I guess you'll be finishing up. So my name is David Lawrence. My twin five-year-olds are currently at Romney in the pre-K program, and we'll be starting to get started in September. And what was the other thing you want? Dave, you heard last time. Actually, what one question or what thought have you thought had happened? Well, Keith's thought that I still have, after posting on a French board forum, is where is everybody? Like, this is a really important thing that we're talking about for the community, and we only get two dozen people to show up, but something else has to be done. I actually had two people reach out to me on Messenger who are not here, and I can share their questions later. But they were like, are you getting enough input for the process? And I'm like, no. Since you seem to have an opinion, I didn't come over, and I'll share it later. But how do we get more of the community involved? And we're going to talk a little bit more about the different types of involvement. Thanks. I'm Yvonne Quelch. I have a child in freshman year, and I have many questions still, and I agree with you that this is such an important topic. I really would like to see more people get involved. Hi, I'm Larry Gilbert from East Mount Pilger. I have no children in the school system anymore, but I'm here because I'm interested, and I actually jotted down a whole bunch of thoughts and ideas, so I don't have just one. Bill, I can't... No, if you want to highlight. I think messaging, I feel like messaging on this is going to be important. How do we, as a group, consistently talk about this in a way that makes sense to people? Fine. I'm Adrienne Megida. I live in Middlesex. I have no children in the schools anymore. I'm on the U32 school board. I'm wondering about holding meetings in each town and whether people would feel more comfortable coming if it was focused in their local elementary school, just a thought. I also teach in a district where my first graders are in my classroom at 7.30 every morning, so I have some experience with that, and it works. Wendy Moore. I have a sixth grader at Romney and a seventh grader at U32, and I guess I'm coming to this meeting hoping that whatever obstacles were in place back in 2008 when you went through this, that we can somehow work through those and this just doesn't become a dead end. I'm really concerned that it's just going to go nowhere again, and I'm hoping that it's such an important issue that we can move it forward. I'm Bill Kimball, superintendent of schools, and one of the thoughts that really came to me and I'm going to go up for you, Wendy, because I don't want to see it become a dead end. I think we can, I'm really optimistic that we can make this go to fruition, and I believe there are ways to do that within current constraints. I think we can make that happen, and the science is pretty clear to me, but maybe I'm biased, but I think at 8.30, switch for 8.30 is not that hard. I think there are things we have to figure out. I'm Karen Bradley, and I am the chair of the School Start Times committee, and I'm on the U-32 school board. I have a child who is in fourth grade at East Montpelier and a seventh grader here at U-32. So I live changes in them daily, which is impressive in their brain and their bodily functions, and yeah, I do mean that. And sleep is one of our issues already, and they roll their eyes because they have the mom who's quoting studies to them. Yeah, there's a study that says, yeah, I think I'm passionate that if we can agree that something is important to do, then we find the way, and we find solutions, and that's really coming together to do solutions like this. Even this is a small representation of our community. Our goal then is all of us to go back out and talk to three people, and they talk to three people, and then if it does come out to be any kind of decision for change, that is down the road a little bit, and that's where there's also needs to be more engagement, and so the biggest thought I had was once we from this forum and the next survey and type things like that come up with solutions, I think that's where town meetings of, here's some things the forums came up with. What do you think would be a good place? I'm Ruben Bennett, and I'm on the East Montpellier School Board. I have a technical senior, although he's doing early college. I have a sophomore here at U32, and I have a first grader at East Montpellier, so I'm sort of in all of those forums. And I actually sort of came to this a little bit through the side door because I was on the transportation committee, and I grew up in a district where I actually grew up in Northfield and Harwood, where we always just ran one loop of buses, and it's always compounded me why we insist on running the buses half full twice. And so that was sort of my entry point into reading up on the science and some of the really strong, data-driven evidence for why this really bears investigation, at least, and hopefully that we can take that sort of science mind approach and gather the evidence and really, you know, going back to your concern, really anticipate what the concerns and the objections that we're going to see are so that we have really solid factual answers for what those challenges can be, and then we can start to tease apart the logistics of what it'll take to affect this change. And just abusing my position, just for a moment, I don't have one of the new sites that I spend much too much time on, but the number two link today was a link to a sleep study in adolescent kids in Singapore showing the positive outcomes that they see after they shifted their start times later. Allison? Allison Cornwell, I'm on the Rummy Board and I have a little girl, Dave Herr, first grader and second grader at Rummy. I agree with lots of things that people have said. One thing I wanted to add is I'm actually pretty interested in at least considering what would this look like, not going to 8.30 but going to 9, so that we can really impact a difference. I feel like an hour would be better than a half an hour with respect to the research. Julie Bradshaw, the sixth grader at Calis elementary, and I guess the only thoughts that I've had is that I'm convinced about the data. It's more now. I'm interested in talking about problem solving and logistics. I'm Callie Weller. I have a third grade son and a sixth grade daughter at Calis elementary school, and I guess I thought a lot about logistics, but I also want to make sure that whatever decisions we make are centered on students and kids. I know that we all have family stuff that makes it tricky traveling on either end of the day, figuring out transportation for kids or daycare for kids on either end of the day can be challenging for all families. I just want to make sure that we're really staying centered on what's best for kids. I'm Jane Dudley. I'm a middle-sex resident and a parent of a fifth grader and a second grader at Romney. I'm also an employee in a high school, and so this research is long-standing, but because of my work, I can also see how all too often it's too easy to see the barriers or the complications or, oh, that could never, like, man, the conversation doesn't go anywhere. So I'm here because I sense a vitality in this effort, and there's real potential here, so I'm optimistic, and also hoping perhaps I can lend some perspective, you know, from, with it on the high school level about finding solutions and ways to make it work. I'm Heather Skandale. I have three kids, three, six, and a 10-year-old at Calis Elementary, and I also work at elementary school that starts at 7.30, and it works really well, and I'm here for the problem-solving about why I didn't know it was a problem, and so now I'm here to kind of, like, try to make it come to evolution of the late start time. So I'm Jennifer Micah. I have a sophomore and a senior, and so my sophomore, if this passes, he'll have a year of it. I have a couple concerns. One, I hope that we don't play this to death. Like, I don't think it's that complicated an issue. The science is clear. We need to be careful about letting the details overrun the goal. And so while there are always going to be problems, there's always going to be details that need to be worked out, if we enact this, you know, two or three years on the line, it's going to work, because we all get it to work when we have elementary school students. Every one of us who's had kids in the five-town district has had to deal with the late start time when our kids were little, and then it changed when we get older. So I just, I'm, I know we all want to worry about the details, but I really, this is not that big a deal. I guess from my perspective, it shouldn't be that big a deal. I'm Scott Thompson. I have a 12th grader and a 9th grader here at U32. I'm Calis Repp on the U32 board and also a member of this committee. I guess my two cents would be I'm very interested in the sleeping hours of children. I'm also interested in their waking hours and making the school experience as good and as productive as it can be. And I'm very open-minded to possibilities of looking at how the entire school day might be able to be adapted to meet the needs of the students. Surprise, I teach here. And I came because I just have an interest in the curiosity about how the community feels about this. So while I was out getting copies, yeah, let's pass these out. These are copies of the questions. I hope I have enough of them. We took all that, all that chart paper we got from last time. I'm going to talk a little process for about two minutes here because I want to get to where David, I thought you brought up something that was really important. And a couple other people reigned in with like, you know, not too much process. How do we move this? How do we get to the details? So one of the things we're working on is there's different types of community participation when you're trying to resolve an issue. And last forum in this forum is what I'm going to get a little technical but it's called thick participation. That means it's a time to have big discussion to think about something deeply and come up with some options and information that you need to gather. There's another type when you do surveys, you see them all the time online. You know, I get surveyed, there's Google Form or Survey Monkey or something, and it says, what do you feel about XYZ? And it usually has about 10 questions. And that's called thin participation but you usually get a lot more thin participation than you do the thick participation. Also that survey type of time will actually inform more people about the topic. So it goes two-fold. It's a marketing campaign and at the same time saying we're looking for a little bit of input from you. So tonight's goal is to do two things and it's really to set up where, as you heard last time in May, we're going to run a survey for all the communities and hopefully we can get a lot more people to give us some bits and that will also give us some more marketing. We're also having a chance to work with WCAX is going to work with us at our next meeting to start getting more information out. So we're trying to not only use the front porch forum and the websites but also using some of our local media. And Dave's been here the past two meetings helping us through the times of that as well. So it's been great. So our two goals for tonight are to brainstorm options to help solve the school start time. We're not going to get to any judging of them tonight. But from looking at those options you'd say the next secondary goal is what questions do we have for parents, students, and the schools to help judge those options. We're really trying to say what are the questions we're going to ask in the survey and some of those might not be in a survey maybe we have to get information from the schools and some of those are right there on the questions that you posed last time in March on the 26th. So Karen just whispered to me as I was out doing this that some people need to leave at 7 so I really want to get people to work. I thought at first I might go down through these questions to give some responses on what we know but I think it's better to get us in a collective piece. So I think counting around the room there's about 15 or 16 of us in here and I think we're going to do two groups of seven or eight and I'm going to be a little bit more of a stickler this time on process. Sorry Scott, I'm looking right at you. You and I always have this nice dance that we do. So there's some norms for brainstorming and I want to talk about the process. The norms for brainstorming is everyone gets to express their idea but only one idea at a time. So if it comes to me I don't get to say so I think we should do this and this and this and this. No, it's one. You'll get a chance to express all your ideas but it's one because we want to hear everybody's voice and it's about everyone having equal voices at the table. When the term comes to you you can say I have an idea or I pass. I don't have one I want to add or I like Karen's idea of starting all the buses at the elementary schools and I'd like to add on to it. Let's put all the kids in it so I can connect to it so you can add on. There's no questions while the brainstorming is happening no clarifying questions and someone needs to write them down on the chart paper. Once the whole table goes around and passes then one of the board members is always saying let's go back through the options and see if there's any clarifying questions. What do we mean by hey Karen what do you mean by starting all the buses at the elementary schools? What do you mean by that? And then after that you're going to take a separate piece of chart paper and say if we were going to judge these options we have on here what information would we need to have to be able to judge which one is the best solution for our district? I did that pretty quickly but I'm trying to get us to working. What questions do you have for my quick overview of the norms in the process? I tried to post them up there on the wall. So what if we have one group of about seven or eight right with Allison and Allison do you mind facilitating that? I'll do my best. And then we'll have another group over here I'm just going to try to give us more room so we don't talk over each other. Another group of seven or eight over here do you facilitate that? Yes. That would be great. Do you facilitate I'll take no. Thank you. And we're going to probably let this go for we're probably going to let this go to about seven but also listen to how each group's doing. We need to be teacher and bring one, two, three, six. How many people are leaving at seven? I heard there were a couple. Yeah, one, two, three. Allison's two. All right, three are. Okay, so we'll be okay. We can keep going. All right. Seven, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. I think that's going to work. Yeah. Okay. So specific ways to make this happen. Yep. It can be a piece of it. We just don't want to be a long paragraph of everything. So just an idea. But the ideas are all centered on. To move towards it. Yep. There's people here who don't agree. Right. Right. And that's good. Because then we're just brainstorming what the different possibilities are. What's the different possibilities? Yep. You guys don't agree that the school start time should be later, or don't agree on how it should be? Right. Right. Anything. Well, that's a fun idea to put down, too. That's a good way to do it. That's to put it down and say, I don't like the change. Right. How do we get that information back to the majority of the people? We don't know what the majority of people think about it. I'm trying to find that out. Maybe the message would be to really take a look at the advantages of what the majority of the people think about the way it is now. For someone who's against it, maybe there would be to say, make sure we really weigh the rules that we have now before we go. I'm not trying to rule out anything that happens. It just sounds different. Yeah, sorry. I may have sounded like this is what we're doing. We're trying to get to the point where we can get something. I mean, the committee's been really strong to us. You've heard a lot of this, but it's the piece of it. We want to get something out of it. What do we do with students? That's why it says, you can put that up there. Parents, students, schools. Where do you want to get the information from? Okay. Yeah, this is the brainstorm. True brainstorm. Just hand it to me, so I can make sure you're in the list. I guess one of the ways with these swapping, is to build in options for students. Is this someone going to write it? Oh, you're doing it. Yeah, sorry. I can't. I mean, I can transfer it after, but... Yeah. What's your name? You. Yeah. I didn't hear you. Yeah. I didn't hear you. You're still a child. That wasn't a good one. Yeah. I wasn't used to that. Yeah. So, I'm not going to make any friends with this, but that's okay. So, limit travel time for sports teams. Okay? We leave. If the day starts an hour later, they get out an hour later, so they have an hour less travel time available to them. Okay. I had never thought of this one, so I can now explore the impact of practice in sports before school starts, based on all the studies that kids need to see more. Wouldn't that be... I know this seems obvious, but... just switching the primary school to elementary school's bus routes for time with the high school, middle school, and then looking into community connection options for those elementary families who need childcare at the end of the day, and maybe providing scholarships for community connections or some type of aftercare programs. I'm busy reflecting, so I don't have... I think I'm going to actually pass on... Karen, you get to have ideas, too. All right. You just have to tell us what they are. Yeah. Oh, I'm just going to write. For me, the idea that was sort of like what Allison said, and that's like starting at 9, instead of 8.30. And when it's 9, I've heard that high school, you can compress. You don't need 7 days. So potentially high school is 9 to 3, but middle school is 9 to 4. So being open about starting at 9, length of the school day doesn't have to be locked in to the same age kids, because their needs are different. Steven Dellinger-Pate has said, give me the middle schooler for that extra hour, and I can really show you something. So we'll go around again. Because it brings it right. Yeah. I think that there are some employers who have 3 to 9 shifts that rely on high school students. It would be great to get buy-in from employers and other sort of dance schools, not athletics, not that, you know, trying to reveal things that go around in my life. But for people who are worried about shifts and things that relate to family economics and the ability of kids that it would be great to have some voices of those folks at the table, you know, shining a green light. We can see a way to work this and modify to have people not lose their jobs or have to move to school early. May I ask what employers are doing right now? Shaws. Shaws. Yes, you're a superstar. You're a superstar. Yeah. I have some flexibility. Sure. But I was not sure everybody, I mean, I think that those people around the table to say, yes, you know, we can shift. So we're now ready that you would ask me, we're getting a little bit more into the discussion, it's just the brainstorming. Question. We'll get to that. You get to the point where you can have that open. Just kidding everyone else. I'm Heather, Skandale. And just my only thought is it will be important to put out the message of how you 32 will strategize with other schools for the logistical planning of extracurricular activities. It can be done. I just think that would be an important message to Dr. David, one possibility is that all the schools start at the same time. To be clear, I'm not proposing that this is what we should do in its brainstorming. It's a possibility, a logistical possibility. That was actually the second thing that I was going to say. One of the questions that I was asked was they gave us homework for the committee members was if we switch the start times, do we negatively impact elementary school students? And I've heard multiple people in this room or at least two people say that they have young children who started a 730 start time. But I was just thinking about my own kids and I certainly, none of my three kids, I even have a lark and he'll get up at 6, but sometimes 630 if he's tired. I'm so sorry. That would kill me. We have a hard time. I mean, you know, I have a hard time. They really need their time. I would have to get them up in the fives to be able to get them on the bus for sure, absolutely. So I'm not sure if everybody's in that boat. And then I did look at some data on this. There is actually precious little data on younger children starting. There's one person, Peggy Keller, who's done the best work she can. You can't do that in this situation. It seems like there may be some negative impacts, but that doesn't seem to be what people here are saying. So I'm interested in that. The impacts of having younger children start earlier, like it doesn't affect as much, but there were behavioral changes in behavior there were changes in test scores for the three to six cohort. And I don't know whether or not that's weighted toward the sixth graders versus the... Three to six. Great. Since we do testing on the third graders through sixth, we don't really have standardized test scores for younger kids. We don't know. So yeah, I was wondering about doing the same time and I'm actually quite interested in doing, not just 8 to 8, 30, but 8 to 9, or even 8 to 9, 30 for high school students, if that's really going to help them. And I realize that makes things interesting. I'd like to know which schools that we either engage with through athletics or theater or debate club or whatever also have a different start in terms because the kids right now if they have a game or whatever the event is they might be on the bus at 2 o'clock or 1.30 depending on how far they have to go and they're already saying, wow, so I miss an hour or half an hour into the day I'm going to miss a lot of academics. Yeah. Unless all the schools are doing the same thing. All right. Julie, right? Yeah. So I can't ask clarifying questions yet. No, we get to a round to pass. Is he to pass or to add on? Yeah, I'll just pass. The only path that I have is I guess I'm still stuck on busing for myself and for the kids that I see come in the door and the busing issues every day with the small range of pages that we have that I would really like to not see busing change in terms of putting all the kids on one bus from 5-year-old to 17-year-old scares me just a little bit because I worked in a district for that before and it was we had a person that we hired and their job was to watch bus tapes every day and deal with busing issues because there were that many issues with that many kids on the buses Well, you and middle sex was having issues on the bus too It wasn't just you and middle sex was having issues on the bus No, I mean the district that I worked in we had 5-year-olds all the way to 17-year-olds we hired a person at our elementary school whose job was to spend the first 2 hours every day watching bus tapes and dealing with bus issues because there were so many and it was overwhelming I just worry about combining that age group and what that will do for our kids coming to the door each day and will they be ready to learn with the small amount of help you have kids that struggle in the morning because they have small issues on the bus Now it's your turn Now it's your turn If we push it really significantly to say a 9.30 I'm just wondering whether there's a point where if we were to push it so late that in fact there would then be pressure to utilize morning time for things like athletic practices or lessons or enrichment that might necessitate an early bus whereas now would that just switch flip that and is that something to consider not only so many hours in the day to get a lot done and we're just throwing up ideas and I have time to go through you can come back clarify oh I have it sorry we've gone around twice with ideas like Ruben said yes and you're on the spot so you also could it be I guess it's add on to yours where the day would it necessarily be extended we would start later and end at the same time less teaching minutes excellent I'm far less teaching minutes they don't need lunch so we have swapped the times and started at the same time and then one of the other obvious ones that I don't think's on the list yet is shift them both later both elementary starts later and high school starts then the existing should we also think about other issues that are not and this is a little more in the weeds but trying to do things make later times in the day new initiatives and changes sort of allocated for certain things like physical education or I don't know the reasons in the middle of the day but I was just wondering if we could do something with a way to schedule the day so that once the kids get toward the end of the day they they get less demanding of them right and I haven't exactly kind of sussed that out how that would go but I think there's some research on that though too I don't know what that is turning into but that does indicate that if you partition kind of the the energy exercise blow off part as the later part of the day it's actually enhances the learning earlier in the day I just more just had question are you getting feedback because I can do questions now right are you getting feedback that the kids are concerned about a later start day and what that would be like as far as academics and their academics yeah we haven't we haven't done anything with the kids yet we know we need to I'm sure Sue has a lot from just being in the building but we don't have any that's why we're not just curious Kelly I just thinking about the new system for grading and the performance indicators and the joint proficiency and if there is a way for kids to still have a shorter academic day still get their extracurriculars and right and still be able to show proficiency because it's a different creative system that you are used to in your dreams okay I'm not sure what you're saying can you reiterate the question you mean like what we're trying to answer with our brainstorming I think the main focus although there's certainly been a little go another direction which is great is then are there any specific ideas for how we might implement a later start time or if you have things that you're opposed to a later start time you know picking up on the scheduling question which can be a nightmare to open up but really looking at the transitions that happen during the day and how many blocks are in a day and how that time is used and the more transitions students have during each day in other words the greater the number of blocks and things that they do the greater the amount of time is lost in those transitions because it has to be you know four minutes or whatever it is so sometimes we can carve time but maybe that work is already been done I don't totally respect you the B32s process around that but it would be worth taking a look at that to see if there are efficiencies within the day with the idea of starting later many at the same time yeah I mean there's a limit to how many minutes you can carve through that but we're wanting this process we're not buttering it we're not we're not some cameras who use early care early morning and looking at where the elementary school started at 730 and used summer start time yeah if fear of treading on ground has probably been treaded over a number of times but but some families utilize seven-year-old start time anywhere to me it's It's the research and evidence shows that it makes sense. So I think it's how do we communicate that with the overall school district. And from the perspective that this isn't just about scoring at times, just because someone tells us to do it, the evidence shows that it's really important for kids who make sense for kids. If you really important, it might be stretching. But it makes sense based on the evidence and research. And I think that process is very important because it is a shift. People are shifting a lot of, it's creating a lot of habit, I'm sure. It's creating a lot of heartburn for perhaps teachers as well, their parents, and so forth who have more understanding. So I think it is important that process. So I mentioned the Boston, where they just did it by fiat. That doesn't work, right? So it's making the case. So I summarized that as need for broad and effective outreach and communication privilege change. I wrote mine in there. Add sixth grade to the middle school. Yes. They are middle schoolers. I'm not sure. Oh. Consider other school-related factors that may impede child sleep, things like homework. Get all the funds right. And show things like a hand in hand. Well, I'm also aware of some places that have all your rent. I'm not saying that you need to be moving through that, but it's not only because of the education. Well, it's OK. I don't know. Can we already have the kids sleep? My wife already feels like we don't have a long enough summer. I said the calendar is one of the longest in the United States. I mean, I don't know where Vermont sits, but from Michigan, it's like 15 days longer. I have relatives in South Dakota that start at the end of July. But that's all harvest-related stuff. And two. Yeah, I just feel like it's a really long calendar. Brainstorming. Not proposing. We look at those two vacations that we have so close together in the February and the April. Yeah, I was always just trying to think about the flexible schedule. What can we do to maintain what we need but be more flexible with our start time? And I don't have a good feel for that. Anybody else want to go around with brainstorming or can we start asking? I have one more thing. The issue of the kids leaving school early for sports, that's a real issue. And it's actually often even more than an hour, an hour and a half, depending on where they're going. It can be. And the difficulty from a parent perspective is that they don't lose just one class. They lose a third of us. Well, they lose either a third or a half of what's being taught that week for that particular class because they have the long blocks. And I kind of have a preference for the shorter blocks, but I'm not a teacher. I would like to hear the teacher's perspective on the blocking and the way it's done. But that I would prefer to go back to the shorter classes because then very next day you're going back into the class. So the loss isn't as great as it is. Especially if you have a Monday and a Thursday where you have a game or something and you can really lose out and it can be challenging. So that I would like to hear from teachers about what they think about the current system and whether that's an alibi or something. Discussion? Will this possible? Yeah. Anyone? So I'm really interested. Bill has mentioned that. And he said this is totally doable. So in your mind it goes full percentage and it's possible. All right. So I'll stick these up. I agree. What's the schedule? All out there? One of the other things I wanted. I mean there's lots of little things I want to look at and I want to try to keep the operation on the way out. The reason I'm saying that is because I believe we can solve the problem. It may mean we're going to have to get to a point where we need this feedback from the whole community. Like what's your priority? Is K-12 kids not riding together? Is that a showstopper? That's like the number one showstopper. We can get that information back. And so we need to know that. Our sports showstopper, they were last time this was done. That was the showstopper was don't change the athletics. And do you think that the day can be designed so that whatever is offered in the afternoons in that last hour of the block is something that kids either take more than once a week, right? Or have more. So I would say if we get into school scheduling, I'm sorry for writing it. I know it's a nasty thing to open up. It will be a Pandora's box and it really should be left to the high school staff. I do know. I've been down through. I've taught and probably, I'm a former high school teacher. Probably four or five different schedules. You make work what you got. And it works. It's not that big a deal. I've taught in lawn blocks for an hour and a half and I taught 45 minutes every day. But that one idea is supportive. I'll do the exercise portion of the day later in the day because if a kid's missing their gym class for the week, it's not a big deal if they're going to be missing it to go do gym. So I'm still going to keep us on the goal that we do. It's like what information would you need? We should review these as an enclavement and please write on the chart paper what information do we need to gather? Okay. From a broader perspective, David, I'm so glad you started out on that one too. We need more information. What's that going to help us judge this list? And the idea of doing this list was to get you so. I have one question that I think you can answer. What's the longest bus ride anybody has? About an hour. And those are high schoolers, right? Because they've got to come all the way across the district. The bus stops at 9-House at 6.45. Yeah. And gets here at... Most of them are here. They're 7.30 to 7.45. Our longest bus rides are down in Berlin, near Northfield. That's our longest ride. Because we have buses that have to go into Northfield and back out of Northfield. And you can't get to that side of Berlin. No, no. None of these. You can get to that side of Berlin without going through my play or shooting with my play or traffic. All right. So let's look at some of these questions. See what information will we need to be able to access to enjoyment, to swapping schools, start times, elementary or high school. Callie mentioned what's swapping the buses so that they would also just... So what information will we need to see if that's going to work? Yeah. But we still have... I haven't seen the first sort of... early start times for... elementary or high school. It's pretty limited. So then I guess more information from schools that have done it for a long time. I know the Burlington area, for example, has been starting at 7.45 for a long time. So maybe talking to... getting information from the district on how early start time goes for elementary kids. Chittany East. Because if we can't find it, right, we can't do the pretty stuff. So adult work. Adult work. So are you saying that that's something we should strive for? I mean, it's an idea, yeah. To basically have... because right now we have schools out and then we have all this after school stuff. Which is happening at school with school personnel, with school students. And yet it's... and, not only that, for most of the students, it's the stuff they really like that they're really excited about. And yet it's... it's only... it's considered the late bus. You know, in order to integrate everything that happens at school into a single day. And schedule it during the day so that it makes sense. So that, you know, potentially sports are happening when it's laying outside in the winter. Or whenever. And then you could have other activities, you know, just opening up. So Scott, if I'm pointing, this was your other idea. Include after school activities, extra and regular within school days. So to me, though, sound like they go hand in hand. They, yes. Okay. So we'll do A-B testing. So like longer day or integration. So an example would be you had like your baseball practice from two to three, and then you went back to the classroom. Potentially. Okay. You did homework or whatever. Yeah. So maybe that... the curricular band is somewhere around here. And then it includes every bus. Consistent time. And includes every library. It's a really interesting idea. So I don't know if this is part of it, but the process, step number four is what information. We need to judge the options. But I heard that. I would go back to one of the other questions, is the cost analysis. If that's actually something that's being considered, I can kind of calculate that's not a expensive way to do it. Not that that's a game changer to stop it, but it just seems like you run your school day from nine to five instead of nine to three or something like that, that there's cost considerations that have to be accounted for. Exactly. I think cost analysis is sort of an overarching one. Correct. Awesome. So I'm going to start writing down the information we need. And I'm just putting the little one to connect those two. And I put cost of such a thing. So modeling. We need like a model of what that would cost per student, that type of thing. So this is just going anywhere. Anybody else doing that? Can I add on to that comment? Because other schools even outside of Vermont tend to get parochial and I get it. We do things best here in this state. I actually do believe that a lot of times, but I think it's good to look what's their school district in California that's doing this or some other place. It's working or at least they've plowed through that field and we can see how it works. Absolutely sure that some private academies do this. And that's the way they structure the day. The kids on the hockey team leave at one o'clock to go do something and the next day, they do incorporate it that way because they live there. They do it, yeah. I know I was talking to a teacher at Rummy who would love to switch the day not because of the earlier start times but because of the earlier release time saying his kindergarteners at 3.30 in the afternoon they're just spent. So this 9 to 5, into consideration the elementary age or the developmental needs of different age kids. So this one might be an option for high school. Middle school. Middle high. And then something different. Right. Yeah. Yeah, that is definitely they peak after lunch. I hear that from a lot of teachers. All right. Are we ready to go on? Are there any of these others that we want to fall into a full day? I guess this kind of goes with it. A little bit? Yeah. The one down below. Oh! So sports practice before school is that does that mean the idea of sleeping in? Well, that's why I said that. I said that, you know? Does it do that? In our software it was our first fitness this morning so 6 a.m. you start it. So there is some motivation to get to sports practice. Yeah. It's brutal. I know. Imagine being somewhere at 6 in the morning or 16 in the morning. And some of the problems are spring when the outdoors isn't available and so they're trying to use limited indoor spaces. Correct. That is true. I hate those morning practices but I understand them for the beginning part of the spring season. Yeah. And I think hockey teams practice in the morning anyway don't they? Because ice time is hard. A lot of them do because the ice time is again difficult to act. So precious. So this one sort of goes with the same themes because potentially so Karen, what did you mean by start at 9? I meant something like 9 to 4 or 9 to 5 middle. So Steven Dell and Jerry Payton spoke to that and talked about the fact that high schoolers really don't need as much time in school and middle schoolers could actually use more. They're more efficient. More intensely focused for a shorter time. Right. I mean if you think about your EP classes you did what you did in the class and then it was time you needed out of class to build on that whether you're building a project or a website or whatever you're doing. So it's sort of more like what you do in college too. And as we're moving toward project based learning more even in primary school we're doing it more in primary school. And also flexible pathways and personalized learning by high school opportunity to be out and about in the community. Yeah. For this one there's a possibility. Yeah. Actually for me when I look at that one and then there's a transportation one that goes with that. And then the accommodation for the VCC students that the theme the running theme I think is pay attention to these regulations. Right. And have particular scheduling or other needs or requirements and make sure that those are taken account of. And Karen in the middle of the second page consider less privileged families kind of goes in the same way. You know if they're counting on high school kids to be babysitting with their younger children. And explore enhanced community connections and scholarships. Definitely one of those. Right there. Just to So question. What information would we need for that aspect? We would about making sure that the transportation and community connections and needs are met. Right. I think that it also falls with the union too. Because for my son he's going to miss classes if you do a nine o'clock start. He's going to miss classes at the end of the day every week. Which is going to put him behind which is really tough. So allowing say someone who has a flexible schedule who can come in early to teach that class that he's missing. For flexible scheduling. To schedule something at that time. You know if you have some flexible scheduling it might be a flex time or studying or something at that time. You wouldn't miss a class. It's ideal. We're talking he has three therapies a week. So I would have to pull him out. I can't go all day without lunch. You can't have lunch at the end of the day. He'd be a beast. So what are you going to put at the end of the day that's not difficult going into 10th grade. That he's going to miss. Even a nine to two. Like she was saying high school would be like nine to two. Then you get into the transportation issues because I've got to get to work. My husband's got to get to work. So now you've got to go and get my driveway and it's 500 feet with an embankment on one side. So we can't solve any of these problems here today. I think the idea is simply to figure out what do we need to do to address this. Alternative learning models are a different way. Because it's just not my child. Right. Right. That are going to run into this. So one of the lectures that I had maybe is moving us to a different topic, but your opt out idea of intrigues and worries. I kind of the idea of the performance just Oh, yeah, that's right. That goes second. Second. Yeah. Well related. Um right. Right. We would be able to accommodate those families. So how do I guess the question for me would be how do we align everybody's interests some of the work that I do in my own company. How do we make sure that all of the stakeholders are pulling in the same direction so that the opt out doesn't get confused? I get that in a project like this there's no way 100% of the people are going to be happy. You just cannot solve everybody's problem with a change like this. You cannot. So the people it's really, really difficult do you just keep turning cartwheels into an attempt to deal with their very specific individual need or do you say there's a perfectly good school just down the street that would be a better choice for you. Build in what options there are if we can't kind of accommodate how can there's a way, like you said whether it's in school, whether it's another way to cover that material that's being missed, there's no penalty for early dismissal on those days, that type of thing. And we already have a tuition choice, a tuition option a tuition waiver option. So there already are kids from what you're thinking we wouldn't have to pay tuition if you were to do it right. I think there would be a way to there already are ways to do that. We could be afraid that we're losing students and therefore funding but we probably also find a lot of people out there in my world is like, gee I'd like to go to U30, we already have that but now I have another reason to go to U32 because it's kind of more sensible approach to dealing with kids. So I put it to on the limit travel time of her sports and I open this because it always gets on this for me. But if we need more what information would we need, to me I would need to know what teams go where, when that type of thing. So some examples of current schedules to see if there was flexibility and it's winter sports really they tend to play in the evenings in the summer and then in the spring they have longer evenings in the spring because it's lighter and lighter. But soccer is a big one. Can you load up the weekend schedule if you can't travel and drive to Newport on a Wednesday night and go there on a Saturday morning is that for many times going to do that or do you have to go to Newport that's a question to kids in sports and I'm like, you're going where I get it, we're in a rural place and all that stuff but there are a lot of schools within an hour I'm always like, how come we're not playing this school and we're going to Newport and I'm sure there's a good reason for it maybe we need to really say, yeah there's a good reason to keep them closer I think it's mostly the old division every one, two, three and it's the size of the school to keep like size schools which makes it and another big time are things like drama if they bring on a show I would actually just replace the sports or extra curricular that would be my friend except drama doesn't travel so if I'm thinking of like a reconfigured school day two hours of drama practice four nights a week versus you've got one hour of play five days a week that you get to rehearse during school but so that starts at 730 I'm kind of curious how many of them are like they do travel those are ours they travel in but I get there by 8 so bus schedules so if we're coming on bus schedules what more information do we need well for central transportation can you do it? yeah how long are the kids on the bus for are they going to be are they going to be too long a ride well I think the reality is that my gut says with the fleet of buses that we have now if we actually ran on closer to full of acknowledging that there's no way that we're getting every kid to be past the house on the bus in a particular run we'd be pretty close to being able to optimize the routes and keep within statutes of who's on the bus for more than an hour each way a day you know those things even when you start doing it and I I lived this I went to Harwood I was on the on the bus at 6.55 in the morning yeah you know hair frozen because I just got out of the shower yeah and got off the bus at sorry at 7.50 so it was an hour and 5 minutes each way and that was you know I frankly wouldn't wish that on anybody but the reality is that there are people who live where they live and it's that far away it's already happening it's happening through the Worcester kids mental sex or Worcester talus but you know the hub and spoke model actually meshes pretty nicely with the idea of the elementary schools having a little shorter it's because sorry it doesn't exactly the opposite but the way that the that the Harwood district worked is the buses would be out in the field and go to the elementary school and the elementary kids and the high school kids would would go to and a lot of the buses are now closed they're on their own but on that what percentage of students drive to school or get dropped off or get dropped off that's where I was going people work in this community this town or any other area lots of kids get dropped off on their way by school yeah so the busing schedule was kind of irrelevant the buses out of the fullest are you 3 or 2 morning that goes all the 4 runs that's when they get pretty full but in particular the reason I'm interested in that driving question because it seems to me when I was an 11 year old kid myself back in my school because we all have experience I drove myself to school and my parents were kind of out of the picture at that point they could go off to work at whatever hours they had to go and then I went to school when I had to are you making the connection where maybe then that will cause problem if they go to work with their families now they won't be able to well actually what I was trying to make the connection was if they're driving themselves I'm not actually sure where I'm going with them honestly but just thinking to myself that for some percentage of the body the rest of the family logistics don't matter because they're not involved in it, they're managing themselves I'm just wondering if there's a plan either part of the survey or prior to that or disseminate some of the data or the TED talk and that was asked in the last meeting too can we put some information on pieces on the survey and we can do that with either Google or survey monkeys we have a survey monkey account we have tons of Google read it prior to answering the questions and to be honest I get a lot of surveys it should be bulleted information it should be here's information from the a couple of surveys that we know about start times for adolescence and then some quick bulleted people are not going to be dragging a pair of everyone to take your survey it's sad to say but it needs to be quick bulleted information that is easy to access and make sure you're accessible for all because some of our and I'd actually help with the design to the point of like one of the things so I'm a computer geek but and which may have been obvious I don't know but I'm really concerned about user interface and user experience and one of the huge things there can be like as a scientist it bothers me when I see people throwing out stats without providing support for them and it is absolutely right that it's great to provide this short synopsis but it should be linked to whatever the source of that data but it needs to be accessible and patient for all people and some people aren't able to read the detailed research right so how do we get it to everybody I'm going to switch and see where they're at yep if you have anyone put on there what did you hear from the students like what are they all of the things from their first reaction is I always told her I'd love another half hour to sleep in the morning except for her kids no no no when they were little no no now the best days are the two hour delay I forgot I didn't say 11 means I can stay up late but maybe there was information at the last meeting that showed that that didn't actually have somebody talked about that that was a concern that was a concern of a lot of people and I don't know where that data came from but it wasn't actually that's what happened so we have to look into that I suppose I'm wondering if at the same time that they hear that half hour later start time that they're also hearing half hour later dismissal time I don't know kids they talk about that all the time about being tired I wish I could sleep longer so I'm not sure they really care my kids don't care that we have snow days and that school goes longer they're like I don't care I'd rather have a snow day the later I do I'm not going to notice I'm not going to notice that I have a few days in June but I do notice that I have a snow day immediate satisfaction for a lot of so they may not tell me they can go an hour later and have a CS day there are a lot of kids coming in late mine amongst them and I have no excuse of my kids that are really close by but I don't know if you've ever seen them every single day they're the line out the door at 8 o'clock I'm scared people sitting here as adults was it difficult for you to I was a I can still remember thinking back to it at some point I felt like I got somebody who was so cool for me that I would actually get up at like 4 o'clock in the morning to get myself ready this is totally not me as an adult so I can't even relate to who this kid was and get to high school though like the instant the door is open because there's a great time for me to go to the computer or just to be in a quiet school and so I went as early as I could when I had the choice again as an adult I'm like my kids want to wake me up at 7 and I'm like stop it I'm a night owl and I think a lot of my colleagues I had for instance I was at one of my sisters and just sleep my mom drove the bus so she would get on the bus and she would leave the food on the table and she would get us all up and then my sister would go right back to that and we would be yelling because we could see the bus coming down the road on the other side of the field and it would go down to the corner and then it would come up the side and my mom was driving the bus you have to be there and we'd be yelling downstairs and she'd come flying out of her room somehow miraculously dressing herself up the stairs she was always the last one to like roll out of bed comb her hair with her hands to the bus stop but she could not I'm not driving my freshman right now how much is different with the I don't mean to put a buzz word on but that whole helicopter parent taking this idea can't have free range kids you know socially how does this fit in because when I was a kid too my mother was also a school bus driver and so she had to go get to the bus station and get her bus and everything get out and get to the school bus stop by herself my dad was totally out of the picture not relevant and so I mean this was something we did from 10 years old on our own so like are we maybe not kind of expecting enough responsibility for some of the kids too oh and that's a pretty huge clap I mean we're gonna have a survey so they needed like 5-10 minutes alright so Bill's gonna want us to go over and then I said we don't move over there which way's the restroom just go right out here right through the double doors almost taking you turn to your right are they numbering they were they were connecting some they were connecting some pieces you said we do have like late starters or early dismissal for students like I don't know that's like I'm not high school you know educators I don't know but some of the right schools do for certain students right you've gotten that right in last minutes here at night schools they do certain things as well but we don't have study halls and we just don't because they're gone with a box schedule we've got four blocks a day we have blue and white days and so they're just not there they have directed study they have directed study right callback is it's a flex time to say you can say hey I need to go see Bill and I need to get student can say that I can say to students I need you to come my daughter PA has that right now they started the shoots it's more like an office hours type of thing and they could need to get stuff done and my daughter sends it to me I'm like yeah I'm going to do that whatever you can do you know I was trying to give the kids also some more responsibility and I know like the AP classes starting starting about now they're using the callback to get the kids back in what time is like directed study and callback well callback is from 1815 callback runs about and so you're going to have to help me here but and every Monday they always meet their TA I was in two TAs on Monday in here and they were like hey I need to go see Sue today I'm going to add in what I'm missing because you live at every day it's a great callback the first year the details are going to be rough the first year and they were right especially that first month and a half but we got the software working to help schedule all the kids because they literally get scheduled every Monday for the rest of the week can any of you if you find that your kid was absent Tuesday and missed all of Tuesday so the teacher schedule TA does until they're in high school then they start scheduling themselves so they're seeing the teachers that the teacher the teacher can request it the kid can say I want to do it so there are different ways to make that happen right so it's like a university it is it is it's very much university office hours but we want you all around and you got to be somewhere so as soon as my TA I could be and it happens every week every Monday so could that be the end of the day it could be many different places yeah it just happens but I'm just thinking as far as kids not missing athletics so that more yeah I think that's something that I could correct me if I'm wrong all kids can play sports regardless of grades correct so that's where it becomes a little tricky right so if you have a call back and you have kids you really need to be calling back right but they are choosing to play sports it's hard to meet their needs when they're not trying to meet their needs I think it's actually the schools have implemented this it's really key to have it in a center yeah because then you start getting some attendance issues but with proficiency based and appointments tend to be out of this time grades are I don't know grades in athletics the research isn't it's all over that place what do you say oh it's antiquated grades you have to have a grade to play after to extracurricular I feel it's antiquated but that's okay while we go down and join this group then we'll do a review things I've talked about what's that the grade both grades and athletics taught together was it that way? it was how are you doing? how are you? good thank you so the other thing was should we consider other changes at the same time yeah that's kind of the same with that one now that I've suggested this I really hesitate to open too many cans of worms even though they're worth opening because it's you know you want to if you're trying to get a later start time then it's not permanent at all baggage of all this other stuff yeah that could be considered probably on a separate track yeah that probably that question is a big enough question that it probably should be separated maybe even walled off from this one we're actually in an ideal place right now with a later start time my daughter loving it it's great for her it's actually a good point to make the 6th graders are actually starting an elementary school so there is a better spot one grade is benefiting so as Karen's writing I was thinking we could just kind of review some of the information we need we've got all these ideas of and the group that I was with we actually took down the brainstorm of ideas of options Allison typed it right into our and you have it David yeah I was thinking more through the information that we need to gather because we're going to put all these options together in one document so maybe David before the end of the night obviously emailed that to me so I don't have to oh she did okay good so I'm just going to go through some of the questions that this brainstorm our group and then we can go over what the different types of information your group came up with that we might need to have and remember the place we're trying to get to is that next on the Monday the 23rd we're back and looking at how do we build the survey and we might even be able to draft some of this I don't talk about how some of that came out in our group so we wanted to do a set of questions around busing we had like you know would you be what and we started to think about ranking in busing not so much yes no or from totally disagree to totally agree on a criterion scale or like what's your highest priority in your busing is it not for middle school and high school students to mix with elementary or is it to have a short ride we have some ranking of what the biggest issues are not just these are the issues and I don't agree with any of them so we got some ranking ideas and we had a lot of our issues our brainstorming things were all related to cost of transportation flexible you know other things associated with mixing of students so we were looking at that we talked about sports and more of it was information we wanted to gather from other schools what's it do if there's a different if there's a later start time what's that do to sports I brought up some of the things I shared I know I share with the committee which was Grottaboro and Banton have moved their start times to 830 in the past three years but they're division one schools and they're already like an hour and a half in the nearest division one school so they were already traveling a bunch they didn't see as a big deal because they were already traveling so much in the season of school we want to know more about the before and after care one of the people at the table said you know in the morning there's a lot of kids at the elementary school for kids right at 730 but there's not much at after care so if we started earlier what would that do yeah we have we also wondered about with community connections ways to enhance and really take care of many families who are less privileged to who need help whether they're scholarships or there's more opportunities for care before or after school this is more of a question not necessary for the survey but how can we be supportive through the change because it's going to be changed and there's going to be the natural resistance to change and then this is another ranking thing like what are our top priorities for our children you know is this truly one of our top priorities and that I thought that was so that was another one of those ranking things this was a neat question assuming we have to have a school day of x length what's your preferred start time and having like half hour options we're going to list David as a computer programmer I don't know if David's there we're going to list David because he's a computer programmer the option of start times like the different models that we've talked about flip-flop totally shifted same start time throughout the system how would you rank those as a community member what would be a priority for you we were getting a lot into the ranking and then we said would a blank number we almost wanted to go if we started start time at 9 o'clock at all schools or 10 o'clock is that doable not what do you like yet can you make it work in your household and then some stuff that wasn't in the survey but percentage of students that drive to U32 are dropped off my table and I might have said it with everyone here we know our highest populated bus run is U32 morning bus run that has the most students on it of any of our buses we were talking about the survey could there be some short bulleted information on the TED talk and this came out in the last questions as well so people wanted to go look at the science before they took the survey I think that's so important because I think that will affect their willingness to go along with this that's the why we talked about that I was thinking as you're going through that are you up front going to say here is this how are you going to frame it why are we doing this here is the empirical evidence about how this affects kids this is important we think to explore now here are the questions I agree I think it needs to say before taking this answering the survey questions please read this and it can be a white paper and if they want to read deeper the links are embedded there you kind of need to read that before you answer the questions because most people will answer them differently depending on if they think of something as important and in the first meeting of the start time committee we did talk about 2008 and not wanting to have a replay of something that sort of felt like it almost got a little somewhere and then just got quashed and so what we're doing here what we did a couple of weeks ago this is all part and parcel of doing it differently so that as a community we now have seen this TED talk and we've internalized it and we've reflected on it and it's real to us now and so now we keep saying this this is where this committee and the people that are in this room and have been participating in this process from ambassadors for this work to say you really should go check out this TED talk it's packed full of science and information at source you know is it a little something for some of us but the data behind it is legit and so this is where as a community we have to really encourage people to do this learning with us that we have done now so that we're so that we're not just going hey we got this great idea and we want to completely turn your days upside down so that obviously a lot of overlap I think the one of the things that part of the sort of ideas to consider we did include things like having maybe a different even length of the day say middle school goes an hour longer than high school or even two hours longer and modeling it after potentially the actual work data we think of like nine to five we talked about potentially getting six graders into the middle school mix as part of these types of changes because they are part of the need to start later than elementary we had a lot of things we wanted information on and almost all of them were things like costs and modeling of how would this look if we did it this way we focused on don't rush it and communication communication really came out so that we provide information from the other schools and kind of we talked a little bit in our group about special needs kids and making sure that if they need occupational therapy or something like that, that they are penalized by either having to leave school or that there are if there are laws or regulations that say we can't have it during the school day or something like that that we find out what those are and are there any work arounds so options and flexibility was important to us so potentially if there is a family that can't make a school later a different school day work for them the option of maybe they go to Montpelier like maybe they find a school in our community that they trade for that we already do so a lot about sports and extracurriculars and we revisited sort of some of those things work during the day instead of just always this after school I think in some of you mentioned information needed are those groups that are impacted which sort of runs through all this but maybe we just who's impacted by this who needs getting more data more than just costs but sort of maybe you have it in there I just can't see it but just sort of outside are there kids who are doing vocational school getting some numbers so I think for me I have a better understanding I feel for alright how is this impacting the broader student group so I have a question would any for survey though would it be the same no matter who's filling it out or would it be different if it was for students versus I think you tell it to those audience that's what I was thinking one of the things I want us to think about on the 23rd and I don't really want to make the decision until the 23rd something we started in the school start time do we feel that we're at we've talked about the different types of engagement we want and have we had enough engagement through these two forums to go to a survey and there's been some talk about we need to do this in other locations town and we don't need to answer this tonight or do we need other forums like this to keep building the base before we go to the survey and I don't see the survey being the end of the answer but it's thinking that out appropriately Kelly I was wondering about these forums are happening but I'm wondering about putting information out now like this is the stuff that we've been delving into you should take a look at it these are the ideas that are being thrown around almost like little carrots of like we're talking about possibly changing the school day to this, this, this or this you should join us you know those little nuggets might actually get people to we can absolutely do that and we link those newsletters put that in there every single time yeah WCSU website there is a school start times page that's got the links to but yeah I agree with you yes oh no I mean in the newsletter it can say go here for more but yeah have that you've got to have an amount that they'll read two pages would be the most hey these are the ideas so far if you want to add your two cents you should come to the table I think there's a level of that in a survey as well as you mentioned earlier when for some people it's not real when it's in a committee it's there's when we're asking for people to take action and we're asking for tangible feedback and input then it sort of turns that corner of oh this might actually become something that's not just this sort of brainstorm out there but might actually affect me and so then you might get a little different level of engagement from the different people that were trying to bring into this process just by virtue of of putting a survey out because right now it's too public right there's no actual proposal for people to respond to you're like the 100 proposals come down that's when people are going to be start popping so but we want to get the positive information out information out of there so we can start to have a I think Front Porch Forum is one of the best ways to get information out to the community and so I just like to make a suggestion that there's five towns so five one person from each town become the communicator on Front Porch Forum and not so it's not coming from Bill and probably not even from school board members but from community members and I'll do East Montpelier and and so I could host say there's this cool thing going on with school start times here's a Ted Talk video that I just watched that I think is pretty important and if five people do that I think that kind of communication would be far more effective than top down from from the school district yeah and you get some feedback right away too whether you like it or not before the feedback I'm I'm kind of hesitant to think that a survey should go out before more of that information has been obtained because when the survey goes out and more people know what's being discussed and they have questions the questions may not be able to be answered and to just have some more knowledge it is doing some more forums at the same time gathering some of that information because it may make a difference in how questions are phrased and at least to be able to get back to people when they're asking their questions do you and I actually agree with what you're saying just to be clear I just you know in terms of it's easy to get into that pattern of maybe we just need some more we identified some information at least and not that more thoughts wouldn't come from another forum but at least you know there's some basic information costs impact you know the system information is frankly my responsibility to come back I mean I'm going to be tapping people within the system and we just haven't frankly gotten to it and I think we probably want in our process that we have another forum after the surveys go out correct I have to go back I mean I think what what you've just uncovered is that we should because for all the conversation that we've just had around the forum sorry about the survey the survey is going to bring people out who will have questions and so we want to make sure that in the process that there's a place for those questions to come and be answered well I kind of like the thought as far as if a little bit more information is going to go out to give people the opportunity to come in and be part of the discussion beforehand I mean maybe nobody else will come but just to do that because if some more time is needed anyway to get some of this information why not have another opportunity a thorough process of asking for information and feedback I like the rankings just to offer a reflection on I like that I think it's too easy to say no I don't like anything you have to actually put these into orders of how much you have to hold your nose for each of them well right another thing I was indicating there was the two different aspects one is you might find that everybody really just prefers things to stay the way they are now still then we have to come back and say but the research says and you can continue to examine that but at least you understand how much inertia you have in the community to keep things the way they are and then the other possibility whether you do a ranking system or a rating system subtly different but is to hopefully through maybe people's second and third choices be able to percolate something towards the top as being more broadly appealing even if any one given time is you know not enough of a majority by itself so thank you you know my thinking face I've seen it rarely enough when did we get together again April 23rd it's the Monday we come back from break for me it's really short because it's like four school holidays but that was how we designed it because we were trying to get to the place of can we get to May 10th 15th with a survey to do the second half of May but I think you know one thing we talked about as a committee was I remember being in this room two months ago we said that timeline was wait a minute this is a it's a timeline but we need to realize it may need to be flexible just to where Corinne was or in other people said too we need to do a little bit more education before we're ready for the survey so I don't see it like we I think from my view is it's better for us to have the information out correctly than to rush a survey is that going to be in the 23rd? yeah I have 530 written down maybe it is 530 that day because we were thinking more committee work I think we could flex it a little too later start time thanks you're welcome just agreed and then how is it being decided as far as getting that information in each town I like the idea of not having it come top down but from community members who is going to make sure that happens so we have a really good list right now it's the reason we've been doing the index cards people wanting to volunteer as Larry did tonight that's fine but we could also ask because of the representation we now have about 25-30 names of people that have been at least one of these forums to say would you be willing to post something just like we do I think the board communication like we do at the end of every board someone is writing it who is posting it in each town and if you want to personalize it you personalize it so it has your voice and identification because sometimes it's better to come out that way but you're in the bullet points I don't feel any pressure to have to figure that out tonight but I could be persuaded the other way too and we can do that down the 23rd we're trying to hit the end of May we had set a timeline correct me if I'm wrong Karen but we were trying to get to somewhere within the week of Memorial Day to say we're processing results because if we use any of the electronic tools we have we're going to have the results we were just now open for like two weeks to pump it out there every day I guess it makes a difference what information is being put out I mean if it's just like a general if you haven't seen the information the links on the start time page you know here it is or is it adding another form or what's the point so you know vacation may or may not be a good time for people to have an hour it takes an hour at least and you know get at that page and look at a TED talk and maybe read a couple of things and I don't think they're going to find too many people spending an hour well I'm surprised I think what Larry suggested and what Bill is talking about I think really the piece that we all keep bringing up is the TED talk so if there's one thing that we really would like the broader community to do it's to go watch the TED talk it was 12 minutes I deliberately picked I mean there are three of them on TED to talk about school to start time and I thought that was the clearest one and the one you know if I'm going to have everyone in a room watch it and I'm not going to go more we tell the teachers this don't turn on the movie video 10 minutes perfectly put you know I've sat into a couple of meetings there's interesting work going on here's the sort of starting jumping off point was this TED talk it's 12 minutes of your time and if after you see the TED talk knowing that this conversation is happening you'd like to get some more information boom here's the hyperlink go to the school website and come to the next meeting because there's going to be another forum and then there's going to be you know I mean you can expand from there to the point that everybody's eyes will back in their head but the TED talk is what we're really it's what we would like people to see in internalize have to figure out hyperlinks and newspapers yeah that's a more organic way for it to happen so I will commit tonight but somewhere between Friday by Friday of getting out to everyone that's submitted their email here something basically what Reuben just said and then you can take it and massage it and if you want to put it up I agree with Larry it should only be one person in each town right yes that's fine I don't know how many times I know we have Callis and we have Middlesex and we have here last time there was another Berlin person yeah so it's really it's Worcester and I'm sure Matt would do it I know Matt would do it so there's someone from each of those towns that would like to do that I heard Larry saying volunteer himself for each month so you use it okay I have a question as to why only one I mean the hard part maybe it starts with a general dialogue exactly so I'm happy to do it I'm just a little concerned that my position is different that I'm not just a parent so I don't want to open that up in Callis as a teacher maybe I'll be seen as part of the top yeah I don't want to be seen just trying to tell people something that is one way or the other I push back on that I think the more teacher support we can get for this whole thing the better and I mean if there's nobody if you're the only person in Callis who's willing to do it I say absolutely but you know I don't see I just don't I think the superintendent I was out there already volunteering to be my president to not voice opinions right when it comes to school in open forums we have to be careful about that because we can be influential in ways with parents right that maybe other people can't that's a fair but the chime in you said that would be perfect and then if someone else posted you chime in and say as a teacher I see positive to this because of whatever that would be easier or I get my husband to do it yeah there you go that's true and then I will work I will work on a newsletter article that we could be there's the vacation we could be sent to all the schools to to publish in their newsletters okay Korean would you be willing to do something for Berlin I do think it's a valid point though that vacation is many people are going away no one's going to look at their front porch for them unless it's done immediately right I've been having it both before than an actor sometimes people just miss front porch forms because they come out practically every day so having it mentioned more than one I ignore mine for months at a time but it would be good probably to have one people with 23rd again saying hey remember there's a meeting in a couple days Kelly you and I keep talking through the next morning we'll figure out I think it's on the call it bonkers to us yeah that's what I'm saying I'm basically writing it for you if you want to use the language if you say I wouldn't speak like the way Bill's writes you tweak it to what you want it to be what it's worth I was already thinking I was going to write mine tomorrow and I'll just send it to the you already sent out from last meeting so I'll just reply to that message which already had everybody's addresses on every time I'm pretty sure we get past the way she takes notes the point was just said that most of it just got captured in a firm way we're winless I just hope thank you thank you so much thank you thank you thank you