 We're back with the breakfast and plus TV Africa. Thank you so much for staying with us. We head straight to our second conversation. We have our guest join us this morning, Ukadike. Ukadike, it's good to have you join us. Thank you so much for being part of the show. Yes, please. I like you to, you know, I like us to talk about the current situation that we're faced with and which is about field scarcity and you want to juxtapose that with the statement that was made from your organization, the EAPMAN. I mean, there's a statement to the fact that petrol would definitely be equals 800 naira per litre if your subsidies removed. I like you to tell us why that will be the case. Good morning, Nigeria. For we, very different than for normal data, we cannot handle that. Our duty and our focus is to ensure that we don't follow our feelings all the time. And that is what we call now NMPC marketing, NMPC return that we can be able to just to put it in Nigeria. So we are just garbage in, garbage out. We are never out there involved in the protection of petroleum products as far as the process is concerned. The third important component of Nigeria is NMPC. And when they import this product through their agents, through their designated agents, those products will be sent to us as a better deposit and better private deposit where we will buy and now break the block and now distribute to Nigeria. For the issue of social benefit 800 naira per litre, I know one of our cameras makes a statement. If you reach point, if you reach last week point, when the minister said that it will say for 300 naira, I also said that it's not because of this people that if you look at what is happening in the international market, the cost of the last, cost of treatment now, the cost of hiring that too and the rest of them. If you subsidize this and remove all these things and all these more situations being involved, it will be very difficult for you to say that I will say for 800 naira, 300 naira. Nigeria is heavily dependent on the protection of petroleum products. And I wonder why we will not start determining how we want to grow these tools since we are not people that are producing the petroleum products. Our job here in Nigeria came as a non-producing country to take our crews to who can produce it for us, then buy it at their own stake. And you will find out now that the dollar is also increasing every place that the commodities are increasing at the present. So I also believe that for begging prices, it is not realistic because demand and supply will determine the price of the commodity. Here in the market, it will be the present like what happens after that. If demand and supply will determine it, why the projection of 800 naira per litre? One is trying to understand the rationale behind 800 naira per litre. I mean, that's what has been stated. That is projection. Because if you look at the domestic distribution of this pyramid in Nigeria, from one of these monday where the sum of the daughter is taking from the daughter's ratio to your daughter's depot, you will find that this ratio has been higher before for $60,000. But now, because of the high cost of diesel, diesel is almost 1,000 naira from 180 naira to 1,000 naira. You will find out that the cost of diesel only has made this little daughter's ratio that was normally used to hire at the rate of $60,000. So, 100,000 or something thousand dollars. So, when you increase all these things, the market value, and the dollar is going up high, and we are going to the black market to buy the cost of this dollar, cost much is going to be around this dollar, and the rest of it. This will increase the price. So, if you look at the little issues that are inherent in this, you will find out that it would be the brother of the employee, look at what has happened to diesel. There is no more space before. They say we have liberalized market. So, diesel is my 100 naira now. So, diesel is the 7,000 naira. If diesel is my 100 naira now, what do you think? Why would fuel this dollar as my 100 naira? Okay, so, but the NNPC has come out to give their own, you know, and of course, Chief Ukadikei Chendu Nasta Peroro of Ipman. You are on the private sector side. The NNPC has come out to give their own, you know, their own figure and what they are saying the petrol may go for if we remove the subsidy. They're talking about 462 naira per liter. This was last year, 462 naira per liter. So, if NNPC is saying the calculation 462 naira per liter, is Ipman not going too far, you know, to say 800 naira per liter, looking at some of the things that you've put up as a situation? No. No, that great panic, unrealistic expectation, fear. Are you not trying to probably do some price fixing here? No. That is, it says myself. That one one of my members said myself because he's also a resultant fuel with diesel. Diesel was 180, when they say we have deregulation, we have the most of diesel and we can go and import. So, diesel is worth for 900. Is it not the same petrol to run? Kerosene is not even worth for 900. A bottle, a liter. Is it not the same petrol to run? So, why are we not... Who are we supposed for 400? What is different between diesel, Kerosene and diesel? If you look at their prices, their NNPC, you will find out that all of them are sharing almost the same price. We're expecting that the Dangote refinery will be completed and of course we can't be fully operational, let's put it that way, very soon. We also told that the Port Hacott refinery is nearing completion. And this year, it will be not completion but the renovation is almost complete and this year, the Port Hacott refinery will resume at full capacity. I mean, you and Port Hacott, we know where that refinery is and we can, we know the state of that refinery. When these are bought on stream and we add to that, the modular refineries around the country that the federal government is encouraging, I mean, will this suspicion, this forecast or this predation by the independent marketers will they play out to see 800 naira per liter? Chief Okadake Shinedu, can you hear me please? All right, so it's a bit difficult hearing you, I think you may need to check it out. I'm ready to talk about it. So, with all these refineries coming on board, the private sector refinery, we talked about Dangote, the government refinery, we talked about Port Hacott refinery and then we're looking at the modular refineries around the country. Should we be this fearful? Now, I thank you, the investors with this key refineries and also the focus of the refineries that we've selected for the past three years. You also remember that the minister has promised us that by the end of February, that Port Hacott refineries will come up on three and we should always pray very, very prayerful because sometimes we don't put it in the hands of God, you know, but also you can be able to determine in this country that this is what the high is going to be from the period of time to the period of time. It's very, very difficult to determine. But what I'm trying to say is that before you talk about removal of subsidies, before you talk about direct revisions, before you talked about unbunding the NLPC, the clinical cooperation and the rate of death, these are some of the problems distribution of petroleum chloride is taking now. We would have, first of all, get our refineries price. We would have, first of all, refine our crude. Look at the best price of refining crude in 19 years. And when we refine our crude, look at the government can able to determine the price. This price we should be invested although you are going outside to do an important CMS call. And why we have a competitive market at a local level? The international market will normally determine what is the local prices are here. But now the international market level has accepted our domestic consumption and price of petroleum products. If there is no war in Ukraine or the ice, the ice in Russia or the sea, that is, it will definitely include our distribution of petroleum products. I was discussing inside, like a shot of supply of petroleum products, like a challenge with testing, professional challenge with testing. These are no more in the medical system in terms of any business in the world. You understand me? Who did it? I want to explore refineries. I want to, we have also been saying it, I'll say that, for example, Muhammad Al-Buhari should also, instead of the imagination of our refineries, I mean, sure that these are refineries who are before he is up. So that it will be easier, you know, going into a deregulation, removal of substance. This kind of thing, you are removing substance. We don't have substance. We don't have the ability to take this product with locality. Now, the refineries are optional. The Dango Day refineries coming up on board. And some of these modular refineries, these modular refineries are not government owned. They also take their crew, you guys on the rest of the international market. If you go to like the data refineries, I want to speak to the refineries. They are selling these at the rest of 700 or something like, we don't say equivalent to the ones that are being imported. If they are good at going right, we want to say they don't need to be connected to locality. All right. So I know that we have been talking about the future, apparently when petrol subsidy would end in June, according to the Minister of Finance, eventually you, your association or group have said that Nigerians should expect to buy petrol, you know, from 800 Naira per liter and above. And that's quite worrisome. But as much as you have also mentioned that you're not in the business of fixing price, but we remember that the petroleum product price in regulatory agency had removed the cap on price of petroleum motor spirit. And of course, given marketers freedom to fix the price. So apparently, are we still talking about the forces of demand and supply being responsible for, you know, the prices of, you know, petrol among others, diesel and what have you. And secondly, a lot of Nigerians are buying petrol for about 215 Naira per liter, 260. Let's talk about the now 300 Naira per liter. Why is that? At least for now, subsidy is still ongoing. It's not been removed. Okay, thank you very much. I will let me first take the first question. The NGPR last week, no, not last three days ago, invited Madagascar and last day the government has do private documents that Madagascar itself, the petroleum product, made a presentation for 100 Naira per liter. And most of them, who attended that, you know, found that because one, we are not in the same color. And I also say as the representative, I also say you are fixing the price. It's the same as you said, Madagascar, this person you're asking about. It has an answer. If NGPR, who is the policeman of the industry, will tell you, Madagascar did that one. They have the same specification. You have heard about it, that the NGPR have the same specification. That is not the regulation they are talking about. Let's go to the removal of the cap. It will remove the cap. You allow supplies, if I mean the market. If you are supplying petroleum products and not, and it's at your point, look at the price, you come down. When the price was 165 Naira, that was the cap, best gift or the NGPR gift or, you also find out that it's not the first supply of petroleum products. And I didn't, Madagascar, telling petroleum products at 162 Naira. And they'll give you cap. They'll wash your vehicles for you. Just for you to optimize them. Because the product is not the way. It's everywhere. Once you extract the petroleum product in this country and it's all the loot and carrying of this country, you will find out that the prices will be 4 times. That is the supply chain. What I'm trying to say is that we should be able to be realistic on some of this government policies. Because this government policies, sometimes they wake up in the morning, after taking a coffee in there, and they come out to sell off the exchange. As I'm talking to you now, they say they have increased price. But this is all the price market prices. So Chief... Yeah, Chief Uqadiki, you're saying that the NMDP RA invited petroleum marketers, independent petroleum marketers to a meeting and informed them that they are to sell a PMS at 194 Naira now? Yes. Because some newspapers had... I think it's the first time that I want to see that presentation now. Hmm. Okay. So how do you reconcile that? But to your knowledge, to your knowledge, has there been a public announcement by the government of this price adjustment? Because what we have are some newspaper reports that we're saying, they noticed that NMPC petrol stations are now selling at 194 per liter. But from my checks, there's been no public announcement yet. Are you aware of any public announcement informing the public that, oh, we have changed the petrol price, oh, now it's 190. So we know. Is there something that hasn't put out there or not to your knowledge? Well, you know how the NMPC can work. They normally communicate with their customers. You understand me? I think you are a customer to NMPC. More than the same exchange of price, other than through a radio flex or through a sign hall message or through an interactive message to that section, they will be able to tell you that, look, this is what you need. You also go to the NMPC portal. It's a high-end NMPC customer expert, that's the same expert. You also find a desktop exchange here. So 190, we're talking 190, it's not a 70 couple. It's now one is something. One is something, one is the phone, something like that. I remember. But the portal now has changed. Are you talking about the X depot price? X depot price, yes. Okay, okay. 40 Naira increase, 40 Naira increase. Wow, wow. But they've not told the, I mean, because normally it's always an issue of national debate, where government say we want to increase, will tell the public. While waiting when you have official, you have to have official, go to NMPC communication, and you see that the price has changed. They will put the price into it themselves. That was the communication to the marketer who is handing out the application. So they want to go and send the price. Because NMPC will not arrest you, send above what you have to play that policy. You understand? Let's not be a reverse, because we are not saying this is wrong. Let's not be a reverse one, which woman they are expecting. But we are saying that what we will do, they have lost order, that is wonderful. They cannot be able to push us through that wonderful. Let them concentrate on the private depot which they are using now. And make this product available. I was told by one of my members in Lagos. It's only like two, three, three depots that the people is being dispatched, be loaded in Lagos. And we have over, this is something that was in Lagos, in Portugal. We don't have over at something private depot. It's only like one or two that is loaded in Lagos. In Caraba, that is none. So how do we reconcile it? All right. Chief, we have to go. Well, thank you so much, Ukadikei. I was hoping that we had more time to talk about it, but of course, time is not on our side. We do appreciate your time this morning. And we look forward to sharing your thoughts in this period where Nigerians are going through a lot. Thank you so much for joining us once again. Chief Ukadikei, Chinadu is the national PRO of Ipman. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. And that's the size of a package this morning on the breakfast. I mean, we had time, wanted to find out from him why Petro stations, his members in Portugal were selling petrol at 400 per litre. Well, in places like Lagos, if you queue, you will still buy 250. And yes, 250, 260. But in Portugal, the way it says, paying as much as 400 per litre. Apart from that, how come you still also have those who are selling petrol? If we say that the product is not available, then how come you have a lot of persons selling petrol in jerry cans and all of that? Oh, the black market is booming. The black market is thriving. It's booming. That's a good question. It's a very pathetic one. We have much to say. But we have to go. Thank you so much for your time. You can always watch us, follow us on social media, across our platforms. It's on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. And subscribe to our YouTube channel plus TV Africa, plus TV Africa Lifestyle. My name is Messi Boko. Have a fantastic day. And my name is Kofi Bartels. If you're fine, feel, anywhere, please let us know. So we can join you in the queue. God bless you. Good morning.