 We're back with more discussions right here on the Breakfast in Plesovia, Africa. Olawole Olakode. Olakode, rather, a commissioner of police in Oshio State. He's been talking tough recently. Now, he's ordered the immediate disbandment of the state's sovereign's squad over what he calls unprofessional conduct by the officers of that squad. Now, Yemisee O'Pallola, the police spokesperson in Oshio State, announced the development in a statement yesterday, Sunday, although the state police command did not list the officers involved or what the unprofessional conduct was about. The development comes weeks after some members of the command returned money, said to have been extorted from some students. The officers were reported to have extorted money from some students of the Obafemiya Olawole University in Leyfe, Oshio State in March 2022. Let's look at the issue of police brutality in Nigeria as we welcome a guest who's a security analyst, Makijofo, former director of the Department of State Services. He joins us live from Abuja Vazoum. Makijofo, thank you very much for coming. Good morning to you. Good morning. Thank you for having me. All right. Despite the protests that held in Nigeria across the country in 2020, for the end of not just SARS, the special anti-rubbery squad, but an end to police brutality, we still see extortion and, you know, brutalization of citizens and residents in Nigeria by officers of the law. Why do we still have this situation on our hands? Well, for so many reasons, we're still having these incidents. In general, we're off to society. Don't forget that the police is also part of the society. And you see, the police keep brutalizing people. There are too many videos trending where in the past, I saw when the police officer was saying that he was right, collecting his money on an economic report to whoever that it is is right. And we see some of them brutalizing, starting to also defy the general directive to stop such irresponsible actions. Now, for this one that happened, where you're talking about the Commissioner of Police and National State in Nigeria, I think it could be actually the result of the recent meeting held with Inspector General of Police to sanitize the district. And in two incidents I referred to earlier, in fact, the first public protection officer took immediate action on those who were visible. So I think the Commissioner is in the right direction to see that his command is also sanitized. Oh, no, don't have this sort of interaction for up and down standards involved. But I think it's a step in the right direction. This issue of extortion by police officers, we are used to it. I mean, it's happened in almost every street where you have a police checkpoint, you are most set into 80% of the time, part with money. If you're a commercial driver, or if you're a private vehicle owner or driver, you may be parked over. And one or two things may be said, and they say bring some money. Does this in itself pose a security threat to Nigeria? Well, for me, it's a security threat because it will go to between Okene and Auchi Forest. I've said this in terms of that number. I don't know how police is going to handle that road. Travelling on that road is a nightmare. Even if you go to the southeast, the nightmare, the way they transport money from people, will threat less abandon. You see the collective, with a distance of not less than 40 kilometers, you have more than 10 checkpoints. Some of them oversee each other. So I think with the new first public relation and the action we've been taking, something must be done. It's not only on those roads. Because those are the roads that fly, and it's a nightmare honestly. I don't know how the police. And if you want the people's confidence to assist you, be brave for yourself. So it's a major threat to national security. If we don't have confidence of the police that is charged with protecting the government, the information, you suffer in their hands. And I think Niazi is doing something about it to see that. Especially before we get into the election. Some have said, you know, that this can abacha from a head of state of Nigeria has been quoted to say if there's any insurrection in the country that lasts beyond, is it 24, 48 hours, it means that the authorities are complicit. For the police in the country to consistently, over the years, turn their security posts into a revenue collection point, which you said is a security threat to the country. Can this continue, Mr. Jaffa? You're an experienced security official, you know, of the highest level. Can this trend continue without approval, complicity, you know, from the top of the police echelon? Well, I wouldn't say approval, so to speak, but I would rather say complicit in some area. Some officers, senior officers expect return from the junior officers. And if it's me officer is expecting return, there's no way he can be disciplined. But I think with what is going on now, it's a case of strict liability. The officer collecting the money has to fill the consequences. I'm claiming that his senior officer asking him to make return cannot be a defense. So I think the moment he begins to take action against the junior officers, the junior officers, again, would be discouraged from taking a bribe from people of a lastly innocent situation. But you're saying that it's something new being done by the police, IGP, and, you know, it's yielding results, like we're saying to them. But these these arrests are made because the people in question reported. I'm in Lagos right now talking to you. I can guarantee you that there are checkpoints around Lagos State where police officers will be collecting their daily returns from commercial vehicle drivers in Abuja where you are. I do not know how it is, but I can I'm sure that somewhere someone is going to collect money for doing his job. So are you sure that things are changing, that there's anything the IGP has said that will change the situation, especially when we're talking about millions of Naira being being made on a daily basis. We know we're aware of of of directives by previous IGs about roadblocks and checkpoints and all that. And after he says it, they give it a week or two, they continue doing what they usually do. So is this really changing? You see, it's been an endemic situation and we know this is there. So you don't expect it to change immediately or once after. You, the advent of social media after the South protest and South protest, you can see that some policemen are even scared or afraid to collect money from them because anything you do now people give you it and send it to social media. So is the way of also helping the police to check and bring fish out of bad sex. There are so many good police officers. You know, for Legos, when they collect money, I don't know about that, but in Abuja, you know, Abuja is quite different from Legos. First, this is the seat of power and the transport system in Abuja is quite different from the transport system in Legos. It's more organized in Abuja the way you have these towns, they call out the road that they're making calls to the police. But in Abuja, it's not like that. I think good times will still overcome all these situations. Apart from junior officers being punished, you think the senior officers, for instance, the heads of the tactical unit, maybe the DPOs, if not the CP of the divisions where these officers are attached to or their unit heads should also be punished because you say there's somehow a link between the money being collected from the junior guys and the guys at the top. Yeah, and the truth is that the commissioner of police said that he's going to an investigation have instituted definitely something for both senior and junior class going back there. So let us wait for the outcome of the investigation. When we talk about nipping this in the bot, what way, what road do you think the laws, the right laws being put in place will help to ensure that the police officers, when they get on the road, they're disciplined and they do their jobs strictly? Well, we have what is called oddly room for the junior officer or query for the senior officer. So this primary action did the game some of them dismissed, some renewed in rank. So those are the punishments. But if you bought us a senior crime like murder, the person is not dismissed and subjected to persecution. So I think those are the laws that provide for checking off all these miscrafted in the police with a view to when they get out. I mean, when we talk about laws, we don't have absence of laws. I remember one of the IGPs in recent past years launched the code of conduct for the police handbook, which is meant to have been distributed to all the police officers. We have the code of conduct for public officers in a joint constitution, which I like to review well aware of. We have these laws that are there, but still we've been seeing these issues being, these laws being broken. I mean, it's against the law for a public officer to collect money or any inducement whatsoever, even in terms of gifts. Mr. Jaffer, you're well aware of this. Is there a lack of the political will or lack of will by the political class that makes public officers feel okay to be able to break the code of conduct for public officers in terms of collecting inducements and even gifts? I mean, I don't know a number of police officers who when somebody, when they come in, maybe they come into an office newly and the people in the area will gather themselves, maybe a market union, maybe traders union, you know, and all that. The professional body will go with some, some gifts to sell, please take, we want to welcome you. And, you know, all these things have a role in influencing the officer. So the code of conduct for public officers is quite clear on what you should be doing and what you should not be doing as a public officer, but still is being flouted. Is there a role that the political class is playing, you know, that is sending a message to these guys out there in black and black to say, it's okay if we do it, we can get away with it. It takes two to handle. Corruption is the big of our society. First of all, the most big beaver and the most big taker. Like I said earlier, if you bought us a spirit bribery like what we are talking about, if such a piece is established, the officers are prosecuted. And we should not also single out the police. What of our politicians? You can, you've seen or you've flitted contracts, some of them are being jailed now for overinflated contracts, some receiving gifts. I remember a case, I can't remember exactly, I think it was them from our Minister of Petroleum, was able to prosecute them for receiving a risk warrant. Those are the laws out there, but the implementation and enforcement is a problem. And the general corruption in the country does not have to matter. So everybody wants to get kicked because the economy is difficult and the times are really hard. But that does not give any, anybody who is caught prosecuted. Some of the acts carried out by these police, some police officers are nothing short of criminality. And you begin to wonder how come, you know, people who go through a process of recruitment and training would have such a mindset. You know, you wonder how they even get into the police. Is it a problem of, is there an issue with recruitment or with training? You know, because there's some people who are downright criminals. I mean, I'm talking from personal experience and encounter with some police officers. You look at the use of drugs, for instance. It's an issue that we can talk about on another day. Is there a problem with the recruitment methodology of the Penangial Police Force? Or is there a problem with the training of these police officers that are not even aware of the do's and don'ts? What do you say to this? Recruitment process is really very faulty. Even in our leadership recruitment process, how do we recruit our leader? Not until recently when INEC, for instance, is trying to magnetize the process. The procedure has to be, stop ban on papers, do current ban on papers, write triggers, and let them go to court. And when you go to court, the court is not even helping matters. Decide things when it gives the natural rule. You can't explain some of the judgments from the court. And these are the same politicians who bring their people, their cronies, to be recruited into the police. And when they are recruited, their legions also go to the people who brought them, the politicians who brought them. Some of them came into the police because they are nothing to do. They are criminals. And there's no way of trying to string them out to know what to do. So I think the recruitment process is contributory. Training, even when you go to the police college, you remember the scandal that was led by AIT? What are the conditions of training in the school, in the various schools? It's a calling. We see the kind of feeling. So they train and say, well, let us go out there and make our own money. In the process, you recruit criminals and they go out if you begin to harass people. So both recruitment and training process, welfare and the lack of equipment is also as is. If you look at for instance, when the police or the Nigerian Army, the military goes out for foreign operation, you can see that they perform excellently well because of the environment. Our environment is also contributory. People will also learn to get their papers right, but people will not get their papers. They just go out and offer money to the police without even asking. Some of them are asking. So these are the reasons we are having these problems. And the reasons you've given life the solutions to solving this. You've talked about training, recruitment, lack of equipment, the environment. You've talked about the giver and the taker that it takes to the tango. And a lot of other reasons you've given, and these reasons I looked at and worked on, I'm sure they will serve as solutions to nipping this issue of police brutality and extortion in the bud. Mark is your former director of the department of state services and security expert. Thanks for joining us with your analysis on the breakfast this morning. Thank you for having me. All right, thank you very much. And that's the size of our package. It's been a thrilling edition of breakfast right here on Plus TV Africa. Don't forget to follow us across social media on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at Plus TV Africa. On YouTube we have two channels, Plus TV Africa and Plus TV Africa Lifestyle, where we livestream our programs. Thank you very much for your time from all of us here at our studios on Victoria Island Lagos. My name is Kofi Bartel. See you tomorrow. Good morning.