 So hey, Chris Short. Hey, nice to see you. Long time no see, the illustrious one in. Right. And thanks for coming on the show. I still can't quite get over that we first met in person, what, two days ago? Yesterday? Two days ago. Two days ago. Which is wild considering everything. Yeah, right. And did you realize? I didn't realize this until months later, like a few months ago. You know our last show together on the Level Up Hour? Was the 42nd episode? Are you serious? Yes. That is amazing. And I totally, I didn't even notice it at the time. But yeah, it was the 42nd episode. That is awesome. Isn't that great? Here's the thing, at the Contributor Summit on Monday, like all the organizers got like hockey jerseys. You know, it was Detroit, Hockey Town, that kind of thing. So like most of the numbers on them were 42. Oh, OK. So I was like, wow, there's a lot of 42s this conference. And then here's another one. But yeah, and I was just talking to Christian. And they were planning on doing, they're going to end up guiding the galaxy. And they're going to end it on the 42nd episode, which is what they think of it. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Yeah, particularly for that show name, right? But I thought it was particularly hilarious. So what we were talking about a little bit before the show, yeah, so I have a Timbuktu bag, which I didn't realize. It was a gift to me 15 years ago. It was like a kind of, hey, you're leaving gift, right, from my team. And I didn't remember that they had a lifetime warranty on stuff. Oh, yeah. And so the interior, like the lining of the inside was starting to go bad. Whatever. Yeah, and so I was like, so I looked in there. I was like, finally, I was like, oh, go see. Maybe I can get it fixed. You know, I really like the bag. And yeah, so I sent it to him. And yeah, it turns out if it's covered by warranty, it's free. But if it's not covered by warranty, it's $25. I'm like, OK, I don't care. $25, I want my bag back, right? Yeah, exactly. So it's supposed to arrive at home today. But right now, I'm carrying a Patagonia backpack that I got from Red Hat, like 95% of all my other things. But I'm not a fan of it. It doesn't have enough pockets, I think is my problem with it. So I had the switch to, because of my shoulder injury, I had to switch to a rolling bag. Oh, yeah, yeah. So that has made my travel life so much better. But there's so few options. Oh, I'm just going to keep buying this $40 one over and over again. Oh, interesting. Yeah, because I actually was looking into it a little bit. And I would definitely take recommendations, because my daughter is not supposed to carry a backpack anymore, because she's had some bone issues. And so I was thinking about trying to get her a roller bag. It is also, she's in high school, so the worst possible choice. But I was wondering if you'd seen anything cool, but it sounds like there's no such thing. But here's the thing, I got it almost. Like, I got it when I joined Red, or Amazon, sorry, AWS. One of those companies. Anyways, I got it when I joined Amazon, and I haven't looked since. But I really wanted, so I did, when I was searching, I tagged Timbuktu and a way bag. Oh, good choice. And say, y'all should work together on a collaboration for a laptop bag that rolls for disabled people, because I would really like that. I should go find that tweet and retweet it. You should. Actually, I will find it for you and send it to you. Yeah, because my daughter totally is, especially when it was kind of cool, because, again, she's a 15-year-old high schooler. It's just like the worst clothing choices or bag choices. So speaking of containers. Yeah, yeah, we do some stuff with that. Yeah, you were telling me something really cool about a new project that's going to OCI. Yeah, no, it's already been released. What we'd call it, Sochi for short, but it stands for Streaming OCI. So you would think, Streaming OCI, wait, is there Kafka involved in it? It's not that kind of streaming. It's not a message queue. It's actually like, it's taking something from the web development world, lazy loading, because you can lazy load images on your website. That way, it doesn't affect your Google whatever score. But you lazy load your images, and you can lazy load your layers now. Oh, by layer? Yeah. Oh, wow. Every layer could be lazy loaded. So you can be pulling down layer one, compiling it or building it, and then layer two is in the process of being pulled down. Like, you can actually act on each layer as it's getting pulled down. Oh, wow, that's really, that's quite cool. As opposed to you have to pull the whole image down. And, you know, so it incentivizes you to have multiple layers. Right, right. Which is awesome. Yeah, and almost in the sense of best practice, but orthogonal to, I think, what people feel like they should do. Because obviously, if you have multiple layers, you're rebuilding less stuff as regularly. I mean, you're basically in an AIML concept, you're only changing your model later. Right, right, yeah. So if that's all you're changing, and if you're using ECR, we're looking at some performance optimizations that we can do to make those workloads pull down faster. Oh, interesting. Withstreaming OCI and some other stuff. Right, well, I mean, you know, one of the things I've actually done in the past two days, right, is talk about one of the cool things about open source. A lot of people get into it to scratch their own itch, right? So Amazon had an itch they need to scratch so they built this thing that, you know. Yes. It seems like it'd be really cool for me. Whether I'm using it in the Amazon's infrastructure or not. Which is, yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, it will change the way you think about your container images. Yeah, yeah, right. When you think of it in that context where it's like, oh, I could load the OS layer and have that just sitting there ready for the next thing to start. Right, right. And then the next thing to start after that. And then, okay, here comes the actual big layer to model. Right. And then, good. Right, exactly. Yeah, no, it's a cool idea. Like, it's one of those things where, you know, in kind of retrospect, it kind of makes sense. But at the same time, it's like I have to like let it percolate in my brain for a while for like, huh, how could I take advantage of this? Right, yeah. So, it's pretty cool. Right. The how you take advantage of it is you need to have a registry that has this thing, you know, enabled. Oh, and so there's a server-side component too? Yeah, so like, well, that makes sense, I guess. Yeah, so like, basically, if you're using one that has Streaming OCI enabled, which I'm sure will be, you know, a thing soon. Right, right. For a few of the, you know, registries that are out there, you just have to rebuild your image and you're good. Right, okay. And like, that's the only like, downside to it, because you might not want to necessarily rebuild all your images. Right. But if you're just rebuilding them as you use them. But it doesn't turn the registry into only streaming. No. No, right, so like, you just build them slowly over time. Right, and boom, you're done. Like it's not going to run a background process to rebuild all your layers, because that would just choke your registry. Right, right. Well, and on top of that, like, I mean, you know, personally, it's one of those things where this is one of, you know, those places where, you know, sysadmins do something kind of dangerous by default, where I feel like there's not enough rebuilding of the layers in general. Yeah. You know, I don't know that to be true, but kind of anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that, you know, people are not turning their stuff over often enough. Speaking of anecdotal evidence, not to plug my own content, but this is actually germane to Kubernetes. I was at DevOps Day Chicago, again, probably one of the best DevOps days in the country, you know, Detroit's up there, obviously, Minnesota's up there, Boston's a good one. Right. So I did an open space, container conundrums, tell me your pain points in managing containers. Interesting, yeah. So it's on my website crishort.net, it's the first blog post right now. Okay. And it's just notes from that open session. And we had like 25 people in the room and there was one company to tell you about that was just like, oh my gosh. And then there was quite a few companies where it's like, are you enforcing least privileges? Are you enforcing any kind of policy? And the answer was just, well, I don't know. Right, right. From a, you know, world of supply chain security freaking out. Yeah. Oh, hey, squirrel. We almost killed a seagull earlier because it flew like right in front of the car. And then we had- How would you explain that one to Ford? Right? Right. And then we've had multiple goose crossings. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of geese between the river and here. Yeah, we get a lot of them in Boston too. There's actually a full-time job of a person who like scares off the geese on, there's basically like a strip of, you know, kind of walkable area, kind of like, you know, it's like a waterfront strip out of that area because the goose poop is so hard on the grass and the plants and everything. And so it's not even like for the people. It's just, because it's so hard on the area. And so they basically have this job to scare them off. What a crappy situation. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And the other part is like, I don't, like goose are mean. Like geese are mean, right? You don't know that unless you know that. And I'm like, I don't want that job. Exactly. Like I'm afraid of geese, you know. Yeah, and there's so many geese around here because all the lakes, but for folks that don't realize where we are right now in Detroit, I'm a local, so this is Belle Isle. It is this really cool island kind of in the middle of the Detroit river, right? Like the border for Canada is like off to, to the, you know, south of the island. Right, which is also super weird. Right, so like this is where I get the saying, I drive south to get to Canada because I live northwest of here. Right, right, yeah. So, and the border crossings are only right here. But this is actually a really historic island. There's a amazing aquarium that's on the island. Oh, really? But it's so old that like I can't stay open during the winter anymore. Oh, interesting. Because it's like the water and everything else. So like they just got to maintain temperature basically. Yeah, yeah. And they can't have the fluctuations of people coming in and out. Of all the humans right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's really interesting. That's cool. But yeah, there's a lot of very interesting stuff in downtown Detroit. Like on a walking tour, it's very easy to point out we're on a driving tour. Right, right, it's a little harder, yeah. It's more like we got to be on the streets and for folks that don't realize that we're recording during rush hour traffic, essentially. Right, yeah. Or like right on the tail end of it. We did discuss like doing something like that, but it was like. It could have been like, yeah, that could take 45 minutes to an hour, yeah. And just being bumper to bumper traffic. Yeah. And that sounds like a lot of fun for no one. No, yeah. So the other cool thing that I'm working on in the Kubernetes community is. Geese. Oh, hey Geese. Like do they, okay, they do move out of the way. Eventually. Yeah, so like we have wild turkeys up where I live. We, they don't. I keep telling this story that we have them on the BU campus and they block the Student Union sometimes. Yes, yeah. Yeah, and you know. And they're very aggressive. Yeah, yeah. And so we have those and we have the Geese on BU's campus blocking students from getting lunch. Oh my gosh. On the regular. So foul. Yeah, exactly. Oh, I didn't. Yeah, we rolled up for all the uncle jokes, right? Yep. Anyways, yeah. All right, so other thing in Kubernetes land. So I work with Kasselin Fields on what's called Now the Contributor Coms team. And that team is absolutely amazing, right? Like it's a great way to A, get started in Kubernetes if you're a non-code contributor. And B, if you are a co-contributor we can throw work your way too. Right, we have software for you to write. So yeah, like we actually had, originally, you know, we're like, okay, fine, let's set up a Twitter account. You know, we have the Kubernetes.dev site. We can blog there, have this Twitter account. Oh crap, how do we automate tweeting in our GitHub like, you know, approval process. Oh yeah. So there's actually stuff for that. Oh, that's cool. So we had a group of folks that built it and then like it kind of fell out of maintenance and we had to like fix it. Another group of people got smart on it and fixed it. So it's like, it's a great way to bring people on board. And I got like, and the reason I'm mentioning this is because yesterday morning, I woke up to somebody who was working in Contributor Coms and like I was one of the sponsors to get them on boarded at the Kubernetes org, which is like a big moment for a Kubernetes maintainer or contributor of any type. So like those moments still happen in the community, even though we're like disconnected because of the pandemic and everything. Those amazing moments still happen where you're like, I worked with you on this Zoom. I pointed you in the right direction. You went and fixed the thing with your skills. And look at you, like you've got like four closed PRs and you have plenty of stuff and you've done all the work to get and become a member of the Kubernetes org, which is like the second most popular open source project in the world, right? Like, and now after working in SIG Contributex, Contributor Experience, which is where contributor Coms falls under or a sub project of that or whatever we call it. We're protein geese, so I'm concerned about what they're about to do. They are unpredictable. They are unpredictable. Oh, that one turned high tail and ran nice. Okay, cool. But the Contributor Experience team, right? Like we see how get, like what pressure we put on get, right? Like the pressure we put on GitHub, the pressure we put on Slack, like we are like 100,000 something Slack members now. It's ridiculous, but like Salesforce is always like or Slack I should say is always like, hey, can you help us out? Is there any way you could reduce this number? And like we've done a lot of work back and forth with both GitHub and Slack to, you know, kind of help out our environment overall. Right. So now it's come full circle. The GitHub people are showing up and saying, hey, where can we help? Oh, interesting. Yes, so like I have like, I do some GitHub management in the community, right? Like it's hard to like be like multi-hatted like I am. Yeah, yeah. Like I've been around Kubernetes long enough and this particular SIG long enough to kind of know where everything is. Right, right, right. You know, move the knobs and dials and such. You know, I was talking to Kim McMahon and Kazzlin Fields, part of the contributor comms team about like, hey, maybe we could ask the NCF if they had some money to like just do the writing for us and we interview the SIG leads and they build blog posts for us. Oh yeah, yeah. We would have the domain expertise. Right. We would have it all down on like email or whatever and you just got to turn this into an awesome blog post. Right, right. And like that's something the NCF could help we, you know, hopefully do because it is something that we do need to do. We do need to talk about those people that are actually chopping wood and carrying water and not getting that award this year, right? That's what we're doing with the Insider show. That's the whole kind of concept. Yeah, so like the folks that are out there and like I can point out multiple examples. Nikita, she is amazing but she's like, she went from, you know, just a student contributor to now she's like running stuff in the org. It's awesome. Oh yeah, yeah. Except for Navarune. Navarune has just absolutely come in and just like made everything awesome. He released a new CEPs website. So if you go to kubernetes.dev you'll see a CEP and CEP stands for Kubernetes Enhancement Proposal. You know, much like PEPs and the Python world, that kind of thing. Thank you Joe Beta for setting that up. That's actually been very helpful. Yeah, it's actually a really nice way of kind of proposing future discussing them, hashing them all out. It's just like, you know, a request for comment. Even though like, you know, not a lot of people even know what the ITF is, but you know, the RFC model really built the internet. Yes, and like memorizing those RFCs when I was a kid has gotten me a long way. Yeah, and I continue to be angry at websites that do not follow the allowed email addresses. You know, it's documented, buddy, that I can use a plus sign in my email. Please let me do it. Yes. Your regex is wrong. Yes, exactly. It drives me nuts. But actually, I found one that the mobile app wouldn't allow it, but their website did. So, or vice versa. And so I created the account on the good one and then couldn't log in on the other one. And I was like, what is up with this? Terrible. Yeah, it was really annoying. We had a similar problem. Like I was in Seattle, but I was like, in the process of like transitioning buildings on the Amazon campus. Okay. And like, one of my dad's messaging me is like, hey, I need to have like, you know, certain level of permission escalated because of this. And I was like, sure, let me see if I can do that for my phone real quick. And like the mobile version of the site? No. Okay, request desktop version. Right, right. Can I do that? No, same URL on my laptop? Yes. So it was like laptop only. I can add people to my org. That's weird. That is super bizarre. Like why would you even like build that page, right? Yeah, it's the same thing like I don't understand why. And this kind of going back to the disabled thing is like, why are so many web developers fascinated with making fixed fonts on their websites? Like why can I not zoom in on your mobile app page? Right. And it's like, sometimes I want to see something that's really small. Maybe it's driving me crazy that I can't tell if it's a comma or a period, right? Right. And, you know, but everybody wants to lock the, you know, the font style, you know, or whatever. It's wild. Yeah, it makes me go back to, Matthew Miller told me once that he was talking to somebody about the original release of Nome 3. And how you couldn't change the background? Yeah. And that was awful. And the person he was talking to was like, well, what if they choose something ugly? And I'm like, yeah, that's the point. It's my computer. I can choose ugly if I want to. Yes. And it's just, you know, they choose something ugly or accessible. Right, exactly. So, yeah, I just thought that was, you know, super frustrating, but yeah. All right, so, sorry, going back to caps. Yeah, so Nebruin built this awesome site where it's just like, here's all the caps that are in white. Here's the, you know, title, discussion, summary, kind of thing. And it's like, oh, I could just use this to go comment on things if I need to. And it's like a really great way. I think there's an RSS feed too, I forget. Oh really? I don't know. But it's like a really great way to see, like, what's being discussed in the community. And a great way to stay like super on top of what's coming in Kubernetes and what's being discussed. So if there's a feature you want, Right. And it's not like already kept great, then you know whether or not it's worth writing one. Right, like go search that page and see if you can link up with some contributors and figure out which SIG is the right SIG to go approach with your feature requester idea or whatever. Exactly, exactly. I actually remember having a conversation with one of the Python maintainers, I think, about an idea we had or whatever. And we went and looked for caps about it. And it had been actually kind of asked and answered. So somebody had written a PAP and it had been declined. And it was reasonable, it was stuff that we hadn't thought of when we were thinking of the idea, you know? So it was, yeah, it's a really good model. It is a great model. And I'm very, very happy that we have it. And then this site just makes it 10 times. Yeah, yeah, totally. But like Nebarun got his start in the signature max, I think. Yeah. But like he's a brilliant developer too. But he was helping out with GitHub management and there's a lot of technical stuff, right? Even like, you wouldn't think it's hard. But getting Zoom meetings to YouTube, you know how hard that is. Yeah, that is such a pain. You know how hard that is. You've seen that pain. I have felt that pain many times in my work. I actually have it, because I record all my lectures for basically similar reasons, right? You can hear it. But you get to upload them to YouTube, don't you? But I want to upload them to YouTube. And oh my God, it's such a pain I keep wanting to write a script to do it. So we might have figured out a way. Oh, all right. All right. So like there's work in YouTube automation that we might be able to reproduce for folks. And say like, here's an artifact of SIG ContribX kind of thing, which is wild to think about SIG ContribX code to like do something. That contributes stuff. Yeah, like that. But yeah, like doing, you know, moving things between API sources is hard. Right. Right. You know, right? Well, especially, I mean. You've got authentication things you got to worry about. You got to figure out how to get from A to B, which, you know, security models do you want to use? Right. A whole lot of just stuff. Well, and I was actually just thinking about this yesterday. It was like, you know, with, you know, I want to cross post social media posts, right? Yeah. But everybody wants you to stay in their world garden. Well, that's, I mean. Super difficult. Like I don't understand why. I get it. But you know, you see it in a lot of things like, you know, zoom to YouTube, right? It's like, you're not even in the same business. Like, you know, like, why can't you facilitate this pathway? Oh, because lots of people would want to use it and it cost a lot of bandwidth. Got it. Right, right. Exactly. But the, I've lost my train of thought for a second, but the. You were talking about early contributors and being able to kind of come up through the contributor experience group. Right. And then actually being able to contribute as the contributor experience group. Yes. Yeah. And like having artifacts in that regard is like, yeah, here's the latest release of our, it could be a GitHub action maybe. It could be like a Zapier recipe, right? Yeah. But to get that figured and worked out, you know, might cost some money and like, that's what I come in and say, okay, I know how to get you money kind of deal, right? Right, right, right. Let's write this up for, you know, the TOC to look at. We can sometimes spend money to solve it the right way rather than. Right. Like as opposed to hacking some solutions together that might fall apart on us. Right. Because we've done that. Yes. Many, many times. Yeah. But like that's stuff that I like, work on and work with people on. Yeah, that's cool. And that's sometimes a great way to get involved because then you go fine and you realize, like I did one day, like, Kubernetes has a shortcut to its YouTube page. So, yt.kates.io. Yeah, yeah. Me. Oh, nice, nice. I made that. So I went in this again for a, and I was like, we have all these redirects. How do I make one? It's a config map. Right. Brilliant. Okay, 10 seconds later, there's my redirect. Can you approve this, Tim? Thank you. Bye. Right, exactly. Hey guys, there's a redirect now. Nice, nice. Yeah, I mean, it's funny. I mean, I think people don't really appreciate how much it's appreciated, the little stuff. Like, you know, I'll go and like, you know, try to get something to build or whatever. And you know, and if the install docs are wrong, I'll do a PR and be like, hey, you know, this thing, you know, could be a little clearer. Or, and I saw one actually on a piece of software the other day where, you know, I was a little disappointed in the person because they had written it as an issue and he even written the markdown of the content that they thought should be in there. I'm like, where's the PR? Like just put it in the actual PR and make that your issue, you know? Yeah. Because then there's nobody can say, oh yeah, that sounds good. Click done, right? Right. And you know, but I think people don't appreciate how much that, and I keep talking about it in these interviews is like, many perspectives makes a much better piece of software. And so when you're rolling along and you think this brilliant person has built this thing, you are often intimidated by offering anything because you know, it's like, no, 99% of the time they do not think it's perfect, you know? And you can add a little bit and it's sometimes hugely helpful. Gonna get way better too. And that's part of the work I've been doing at WorkWork is helping developers that have never worked in open source kind of learn, right? Like, it's valuable to get the maintainer's perspective because they've got context that you don't. Right, yeah. And like, that is a huge thing, right? Like they can go back and show you maybe an issue and a PR where it didn't work out. Right, right. So they might be a little, you know, some trepidation with that as far as, you know, approaching that issue again. Yeah. So. Well, it's like, I play this mobile game that's an open source mobile game and I'll even shout out to it Shattered Pixel Dungeon. Shattered Pixel, this looks like something I need to get into. It's a graphical rogue game. Interesting. Yeah, it's fun, I like it a lot. But periodically I've made a number of suggestions for like features, you know? And I think one of like 10 has not been like, oh yeah, I thought about doing that but that's not really direction the game wants to go or I want to go with the game, you know, or, you know, or like, oh yeah, I also wanted to do that, but if I do that, I have to basically change all of this infrastructure code and he's like, I'm not quite ready for that level of rewrite. So, one thing I've learned over the years and I think like I've learned it quickly because I started in open source when I was like 18, you know, so like I've learned this very quickly is that if you've had the idea, chances are someone else has said already to you. Right, right. And sometimes there's a good reason for it not to exist but maybe your implementation will be better. Right, right, right. Or there's enough of a tweak on your idea that it actually fits now. Your idea might not be necessarily unique but your implementation of that idea could be incredibly unique. Yes, yes. And very beneficial to the community once it gets feedback from those maintainers and then you're making something that everybody uses for something better. Right, right, exactly. And you know, and there's also, I mean there's that great feeling of, you know, hey, I contributed something and other people are benefiting from it, you know? You know what, here's a funny story. So like GitHub has their like Arctic Vault thing where they support code. So I was like. I'm still not quite sure how I ended up in there but I'm on that list and I was like what? I was like how did I end up in this? And I look and I'm like okay, Kubernetes that makes sense. And then it was like HA proxy and I was like wait, HA proxy. What did I do on that? What did I do on that? And I look in my like Gmail and like all the HA proxy mailing list stuff is buried and so like go back and look at like historical things like to the HA proxy mailing list from just me. And all I did was built an RPM spec file for them. Oh, yeah. That actually compiled because I needed it for a work thing. Right, right. And I was like, well I can just make this and here you go. So yeah, my one commit with a bunch of feedback, obviously. Yeah. Now I'm in the Arctic Vault because of two projects. Right, right, that's really awesome. It's like one PR got merged with that. Yeah. Yeah, my suspicion is mine is something similar. You know, but you know, I have no idea. But the, what was I gonna say, the, yeah, I've also, speaking of RPMs, I've also used the developer technique of if you write the first version of something and then show it to like an expert, they're often so horrified by it that they fix it for you and take over maintenance. Oh. Which is a very useful technique that I found. I'm gonna use that on J-Pypes and the EKS or sorry, J, when you watch this later, I'm really sorry. Right, right. I'm totally doing that. Yeah, I've done it a couple of times like successfully and really had something take off that way. But you know, hey, let's see. So what else has been going on? I mean, we, you know, I haven't really talked much in, you know, a couple of years. Yeah, I mean, it's been a year since I've been at AWS as of this week. So like a year ago, we were all in KubeCon LA doing this, well, not this particular thing. But like, but now it's, you're in Detroit. Right. You're in my hometown, right? Like this is where I live. I chose to move up here, right? Like it was a conscious decision to move to Detroit. And you know, I worked in downtown here for six months but to see all my friends here in the city. Yeah, that's totally cool. Paris Pittman and Valerie, they came through, you know, on one of their overflights. And you know, when I first moved here, we had a huge contingent of like CMCF ambassadors that were here. Oh, really? They were all right here. So they came and visited. Right. So I like went down to George Castro's house and there was Paris and Valerie and you know, they're like, this is awesome. And like, I feel like, you know, that effort might have helped with getting this here. Yeah, right, right. Because it is so amazing to see all of my friends that are here in my hometown. And so that, you know, yeah, there's probably been bad experiences I know of a couple. And I'm sorry that that happened, but like Detroit was devastated in 2007. My wife had to move when she graduated college, Michigan State, she had to move down to Raleigh, North Carolina in 2007. That's where we met. Oh yeah, yeah. That's how I got all my connections at Red Hat. I ended up working here. Yeah, yeah. Right, right. So like, it's amazing how this city has been rebuilt completely from squalor. I remember doing, I did a sales call at OnStar. Yeah. Like 15 years ago. Oh gosh. And it's like markedly different. Yeah, so like 2007 was exactly 15 years ago. You came here and saw it, probably at its absolute like beginning of the worst. Right. And you know, I don't know, it's been all right. You know, I live in the inner city, so I'm a little more used to city life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think living in Detroit has kind of like, desensitized me to like the extremists of crime sometimes. Right, right, yeah. But I've been amazed by like all the, I really like all the little murals that are around. Like there's a lot of art. Yeah. There's a lot of history down here, right? Like the largest. Whatever, I saw the whole monument for the Underground Railroad. Yeah, it's right on the riverfront. Yeah, which I was like, oh, I didn't, yeah. I mean, it's like logical, it was a big part of that. Rosa Parks moved up to Detroit after Montgomery, Alabama. Oh really? Oh, I didn't know that. So she lived and died here after, you know, the whole thing got settled in Montgomery. Right, right. Yeah, she lived and died here. This is, we have a very, very unique part in history here in this city. Yeah. Yeah, that's totally cool. Yeah. All right. Yeah, yeah, I would recommend it. I've had like, I had a couple of really good meals so far. Oh, God, the first time I've seen here is awesome. Yeah, which has been really cool. But you know, thanks so much for joining us for our little jaunt around town. No problem, it was awesome. Yeah, I think it's been fun. Thanks for inviting me. Yeah. Thank you Ford for the car. Right, right. You know, like, this thing's sick. Like if you can afford it, get one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To be honest, I have no idea what the list price is. So I looked and they're like more afraid to buy it. $270, $80,000. OK, all right. I mean, keep in mind it's like the answer to the Tesla too, right, for like the speed and everything else. Right, yeah. But it's a pretty nice ride. Yeah, it's like. Yeah, the only problem is it's smarter than me. You know, it's like, I can't figure out how to do stuff, like open the trunk. Yeah, like. Like, it's taken me a little while to get the hang of any of it. Yeah. But yeah, it's been pretty cool. Awesome. But thanks so much for coming. Thank you.