 All right, thank you for joining us on this special E4M webinar, which is on building OTT brands through personalized conversational messaging, powered by Gupture. I want to put in a little bit of context before I introduce my esteemed speakers today. As we know today's subscribers want OTT brands to meet them where they are and make the entire journey from purchase to, you know, the final product as easy and convenient as possible. This is why many Indian subscribers are turning to messaging platforms for support. So to discuss all this and more we have with us today, Girish Dibashyam, I'm so sorry, VP strategy, Docubee. We have Kinari Dave, Deputy Vice President, Product Innovation, Shimaro Meen, Lokesh Chauhan, Chief Technology Officer, Eros now, Omkar Shinde, SVP Head Product Digital Business, Sony Live, Satya Jeet, Devakar Nair, Senior General Manager, Digital Manorwa Max. We have Suryadeep Basia, CEO, Gujarati, Tarun Sahni, Head of Partnerships, Global Shorts TV, Sanjoy Roy, Co-Founder and CEO, AskSit, a GapShop company and the session chair for this webinar is Vinith Shah, GM Madison. I would hand it over to Vinith from here to take on the discussion. Thank you again for joining us. Thank you for a quick introduction. Let me start the proceedings with the most used phases in the last two years concerning it's a webinar. Firstly, am I audible and is my screen visible? And now I guess we can start considering we've said these two words and we can proceed now. So I would first want to set some context for the audiences with a quick glimpse on the OTT culture. My panelist over here, as you rightly pointed out, Ohio are all OTT experts. They eat, sleep, drink and definitely breathe OTT. However, for audiences, I wish to cover what are the key contents that we'll be talking in the next 90 minutes. And this will be largely related to the OTT culture, how it began, what has been the pandemic impact on the consumption of OTT and when it is currently standing, how it will be shaping up for the future. So I'm sure a lot of you would know but just to kind of brush up, OTT culture began in India in 2008 with a platform called Big Flicks, which was by Reliance Entertainment. And post that soon after in 2013, there was a leap in terms of so the mainstream platforms like Hot Style, Sony Live and Ditto TV, which is again formerly known as, which is now known as Z5, formerly known as Ditto TV, started NGC content as a catch-up TV for a lot of users. Now post 2016 where Geo launched, the entire ecosystem changed considering the video consumption grew multiples on back of the affordable data services. And with that user behavior and a captive audience is available, global giants like Amazon Prime Video and Netflix introduced explosive content to Indian audiences. So content like Sacred Games and Mirza Poll Family Man were much ahead of the curve for the Indian force and now OTT was much more than a catch-up TV. So today as this revolution is forming as a mainstream media vehicle where there are more than 45 OTT platforms in India and it definitely, the unique users across all these platforms definitely contribute to more than half of the internet population in India. Largely, the Big Five contribute to the eruption of this medium. So if I'm to name them, say Hot Style, Z5, Sony Live, Boot, MX Player are the Big Five basis the monthly active users they have and the kind of time spent that you can see on these OTT platforms. While there are definitely a big growth in the regional content dissemination platforms as well. So platforms like Sunbext, Hoi Choy, AHA, Oho, Gujarati, Manohama Max, who are the regional content consumption pattern also. Well, OTT platforms largely grow on the back of GEC content which is nothing but your daily soaps and entertainment and sports. Temporal original content which these platforms started producing, creating and disseminating is definitely responsible for making this wave of an OTT now into a tsunami. So while today larger viewership is led by Avod as a format on back of the exclusive content, one can definitely expect the growth in SWAT business will be going much more faster than what Avod actually grew the business for. And there's a definite growth of 25 to 40% across multiple OTT platforms in the way content was consumed pre-pandemic and now post-pandemic. So almost 20-30% audiences have increased and there's a definite 30% increase in the time spent as well across all these OTT platforms. And hence there will be a lot of injection of content that is responsible for this as well. So with the original content coming in, it's also resulted in audience shifting to connected TV forms here, TV or mobile viewing. Now that is largely on back of the exclusive shows which are not there on TV and a user wants to co-view the same way they watch TV. So I can still watch that on mobile but if I want to watch co-view with my family or friends, connected TVs become the next big thing. While it still contributes to 10 to 12% of the internet population from a unique business point of view, it is still substantially going well and it is grown by easily 35 to 40-50% in the last one year. So it's a testimony that connected TV with the kind of original content that we have will only keep on going in the next 2-3 years. So estimated by 2025 we can definitely expect connected TV unique users to go up to 100 plus million users. Now as we speak, there are platforms like Amazon Prime Video or even say their new end to end say something like a book my show Streams have launched TVOT which is nothing but a transactional video on demand as a buying currency. Now what it does is I typically can buy, I can rent the content, I can consume it and I can move out of the platform. There's no wedlock as such that I have to buy monthly or annual subscription to kind of consume the content and stick to it. So that is a new form that is coming which is which is an evolve which is evolving to the award and SWAT that we've been seeing till now. Much more than that, even there have been interactive formats within OTT content consumption that has come out. So today there are interactive content pieces released on OTT which is enhancing the overall viewing experience. I'm sure a lot of you would have seen or viewed the latest content piece which was Ranveer Singh with Bear Gwills and where users were given an option to select a lot of things that Ranveer Singh would do in that entire content piece. Starting with what tools he carries or what roadmap he follows to his destination or even what he eats. So this is a kind of media option that is definitely happening and in future OTT platforms may have an alternate ending to a content also like that can be a definite possibility where your favorite character dies in one of the endings and you can select that he doesn't die and there could be an alternate ending to it as well. So that is the stage where OTT platforms and the kind of tech that is enabled is moving to. I can definitely assure that this will be an exciting discussion to know what's moving in the minds and behind the doors of these OTT houses and with that I would want to shoot my first question. So Omka, this is for you. Omka represents Sony Limp, one of the big 5 OTT platforms. The question is what as for you has led that shift in content consumption pattern on OTT free and post pandemic? Hi everyone. So before the pandemic hit us, we were a different version of Sony Limp and around two years back we transformed ourselves and with a subscription focused with a lot of premium content also that was onboarded and produced by us. So I think the compulsion of staying at home and there was nothing to do at that time. So I think that led to users opting for consuming more of content on OTT platforms because there was a wide choice there. Thankfully during that time we had launched and transformed Sony Limp to a subscription focus and from a 0.8 million kind of a subscription base that we had at that point, we are now at 0.7. So this huge phenomenal growth that we've seen is during this pandemic where users have chosen for more exclusive content and original content. I think that is what has driven that shift. So this will be largely Omka on the back of the original content if I have to put it that way or it could be attributed to sports also as well? So sports has always been a driver but for us from a subscription perspective also and as for business perspective also original content is the one that has given us the biggest perfect. I'm sure scam would have definitely contributed a lot to that. That was a game changer. So are we seeing any shift in consumption of GEC and sports as well say pre-to-post pandemic because while OTT, while originals are the clear winner but is there any shift in GEC and sports as well? Definitely. I think the habit is now moved to OTT. The consumption in terms of the minutes watched per user has also skyrocketed in OTT server. So I think overall from a habit formation also as well as the consumption and time spent, we are seeing a huge shift towards OTT. Great. So while I believe GEC and sports have resulted in growth on OTTs and definitely original is coming in, this is a question to a location from Eros now and the Kinnari from Shimano. What is the growth roadmap for platform which has movies typically from say your 90s and 2000s as primary content when you may also have a lot of snackable web shows along with it. Please first after you can. So hi, thanks for the invite. Okay, so I would like to answer it a little different. I think the Indian users have had the affinity towards a lot of regional content. So and we over the lockdown, I think that need and that affinity has kind of accelerated. So if you see all of us put together, we would have about say 400 to 600 hours of Indian original content to weigh back in 2017. Now all of us are sitting at upwards of, you know, 3000 hours of Indian original content. So the consumer preference, the consumer taste, etc. has moved and it's moved faster than our expectations and that's where we are sitting. Yes. So we have a lot of regional. We have a lot of classics and the idea is to add more content which the consumer has affinity towards. So I have a follow up question, but I would want to hear your locations with. Sir, I represented us now, one of the older, one of the most what you would say prominent across the globe, OTTs from Indian context. The way I would like to answer is that we always knew there is going to be an upshift for viewership, but the pandemic accelerated it tremendously. It kind of allowed us to understand better of how consumption patterns are evolving with the flow of data that was coming in. And we have used that to, you know, invest in more web series and show specifically to understand how we can cater to different geographies and different age groups better. Specifically, that has been the approach from start. We know that having a great library of content which has a great rewatch value is always going to be our strong point. We're not like a sport focused OTT player. So yeah, that will not be our strength, but movies have great, what you would say, attachment for Indian diaspora. And that's where I believe we bank upon. So location, if I understand it well, there's a definite mix of movies as a content that's getting consumed on the platform as well as the snackable content that's also there. What would be an issue between the two if I have to understand? Because again, while I understand that people want to catch up on movies, that's a definite trend, but they are still looking out for a lot of original content across multiple platforms. So is the hunt of coming and watching new content on the platform driving more users or is the movies that you have is driving more users? So I think, you know, as if I have to answer on behalf of Shamaru, for us, the way we are present or the way we are offering is present, we have both kinds of users, right? So we have the classics catalog, etc. We do Bollywood premiums as well, right? Until last year, we promised one new movie every week, right? So we have those global audiences, you know, funneling down to us and our focus for last year has been Gujarati and for in which we've released original content. So that does for our customers or that cohorts of customers is coming to us for more exciting new age content in that genre specific. So we've kept our regional strategy in focus. We've grown Gujarati over a year and a half and you'll see us growing more such, you know, language verticals going further, both with movies and original content, I would say. So it is an equal mix for us. I concur with the canary. The fact of the matter is, in certain parts of the world, we see more affinity for original shows, while other show more what you would certainly be the watch intent for the movie. So we missed in both. That's a good thing to know because while the original content is coming up, there is no time for the movies that are there on the platforms and the older ones that people still want to relish. So it's a good thing to understand. Now, even in the current context, OTT platforms have been announcing slate of 2030 content, original content pieces to be released in the span of next two years, which is quite big. Easily one to pieces of content every month, which is even say at times much more than a new movie coming in. So this is again a question to that is India finally ready to pay for content in a larger sense, considering people as a slate of content that is coming out, it's all going to be behind the P1. So we are seeing a very positive plan. UPI launched sometime in 2016. And since then, it's only growing. I think in the last two years, it has grown even faster. So even from our subscriptions and subscriber numbers that I mentioned earlier, I think while it is still from an India scale perspective, it's at an Asian state. But I think it's growing very fast. So users' willingness or intent to pay for content is definitely on the rise. So as I initially pointed out that the wave will become a tsunami with the original content. And that's how you as one of the big five guys will be thinking of. Absolutely. And that's where our investments are also. So I think the big drivers for us are original and exclusive content and sports. So I think in both those areas, we are focusing on that. That's good to know. So can we safely assume that with SWOT picking up, as mentioned by you, with the kind of niche content that platforms like Docube and Shorts TV have, a question for Girish and Tarun, are we expecting to go much aggressively now in terms of viewership? Considering people are ready to pay, the big fies are talking about it openly saying that, okay, this is the way, this is the back of, as a non-back of the original content, you would see more subscribers coming in. So do you agree with that, Girish and Tarun, from your platform point of view, considering you guys have a lot of niche content that comes out? Sure. No, I think definitely when it comes to habit creation, the big fies have created the habit of paying online for video content. And once that habit is created, it just opens the door for pushing more types of content into the household. And that has definitely helped us, where today, more and more people are willing to pay. And the other thing that probably has worked is that while most of the platforms, the big five are focusing on fiction content primarily, and fiction originals. And somewhere in the last two to three years, we have seen that a lot of customers are now, they are feeling some fatigue with the homogeneous nature of some of the web series, that it's the same. I mean, some of them are on similar topics, and they want something fresh and new. And I think somewhere platform like Docube has created a space for itself that for those who want to try out something different from the homogeneous fiction content, they have a choice. So I think habit creation, definitely it has helped. And we are offering something different utilizing that habit. So it's worked for us. Then Ganesh, would you want to stick to the documentary genre? If I have to put it for layman, that is documentary is a genre is something that you want to stick to? Or you would want to eventually go Docube say with a lot of fiction content as well, considering that is where you would see an incremental audience is coming from? Oh, no, no, actually, absolutely. We are going to focus just on factual entertainment and nonfiction, nonfiction in the foreseeable future. That's the whole premise of our platform. And see, just to give you an idea about the addressable market, see out of the entire video viewing audience in a country like India, almost 80 to 90% of internet users consume factual entertainment in some form or another. I mean, YouTube has been the driver of factual entertainment or nonfiction content till now. And the demand for premium nonfiction content is only increasing day by day. And we want to be there in that space because we are actually owning that space in a sense that a curated premium nonfiction content is something that is where we have a first mover advantage and we want to leverage that strength. So we want to play to our strength and you know, even our network, Intel media, we have a history with nonfiction and we want to leverage that as well. Then there will be a certain growth in terms of the number of funding pieces that you were putting possibly say last year versus the way you want to plan it for the next couple of years. I'm sure you'll be thinking to scale that up. Absolutely, we are planning to double down our, we have already in fact initiated that process compared to the type number of video assets that we had last year. This year we are on track to actually double that number and in fact, to be honest, we don't have any other options than amount of users that are coming in and latching onto the service. It's like, you know, a cannon fodder, you need to constantly give new, keep on adding new and new content to acquire new customers. Then what would be your point of view in terms of how the niche content is getting consumed? Does that sound good news for you and does the growth look aggressive for you as well? Absolutely. When we launched in the fall of 2018, we never thought, you know, we had, we launched, we entered India with absolutely zero expectations. We didn't know how the market is going to plan for us, but we always knew that if we were to offer content which is kind of slightly different, there is definitely a market. India as a market has grown tremendously for us and we were pleasantly surprised in the first month of launch that the number of people actually started subscribing to the service. It has changed considerably the whole matrix for the pandemic because people have started valuing their time more. As they're spending more time working from home, the thin line of difference between working and not working has kind of faded away. And hence, you know, short format content has suited it very nicely. You know, you would like to just turn yourself off, quench your entertainment thirst and get back to work. And that's where, you know, our content has fitted in very, very well because people were pleasantly surprised that you can watch a great short, an Oscar winning short in 10, 12 minutes and then get back to your work, your day and whatever else you want to do. This kind of format also works very well with pretty much all screen types, you know, whether you're watching it on mobile or on television. So I think I would say worldwide there have been a massive surge when it comes to short format content. You know, even when we take the big ease like the YouTube and all that, they have now, you know, have a dedicated section for short. It's another thing that they took our logo and we are having a lot to do against Google. But it's been an exciting, exciting journey so far as for the Asian subcontinent is concerned, and it's only going to grow. Certainly. So one question for you Talun that I kind of picked up from what you were saying is after Shorts came in India in 2008, and it is definitely kind of got a lot of eyeballs and subscriptions to. So what would be the discovery journey for a user to know about Shorts TV largely I'll tell you where from where I'm coming is for the big five and say a shema who's of the world or manumas of the world is definitely either a production house or possibly say a new a new spring giant backing them all the big fives definitely are in the eyes of public but for Shorts TV what could be that point where the user discover short TV and that could be like a good eye opener for a lot of users who wants to consume content but they possibly have already exhausted the current platforms and they don't know what next to do. I must say we need very, very good question. Okay. One is that, you know, since we are not in the big big leak, we do not have, I would say the marketing dollars to kind of reach out to a much a much more wider audience. But I would like, you know, before I start, I would just like to share a very interesting piece of stats where that if you see 98% of the phones or pieces of content which are produced every year come from the indie filmmakers. Okay. Unfortunately, no, these filmmakers do not have the platform to showcase their product. Yes, there is YouTube, there is there are plenty of other platforms available, but discoverability always remains an issue. You know, no one is actually taking out this content and then showing people that this is what we're doing. For us, what happened that we have given these indie filmmakers a platform to showcase their product. And now they have become our, you know, they have become a face of the brand. Because as we get their films on board, they use their own marketing, their own social handles to start promoting the content. Another interesting aspect is that we are in the process of creating a community because that is very, very important. You know, one, since you know, this whole webinar, it is about, you know, how can we personalize for, you know, it's I think the most important thing is to start with personalized recommendation. And these filmmakers already playing a very, very important role in doing that because they then reach out to their friends, family, and everybody then comes together. And as they come, that's where discovery happens for us. So this has been an interesting part of the journey for us worldwide, I would say. That's a great cue. So can I safely assume that the connected TV consumption for say platforms like DocuVen, Shorts TV would be much more higher than your normal OTTs considering then the kind of content that's getting consumed is still slightly niche and premium. Say for a normal OTT and possibly an OMCA can can confirm on that, but the kind of OTT viewership is in the range of 8 to 12 percent. Give or take, it could be, you know, a bit higher or lower for few platforms. But what would it be like for say a DocuVen, Shorts TV? So, Vinith, if, yeah, so Vinith, you're right, actually, especially in the last two years, we have seen this even increase skew towards connected TVs. And, you know, today, I would say majority of our consumption does happen on connected TVs. And probably it's got to do with our target audience, audience also, and their, their profiles also. But yes, you're right. I mean, that's where the growth is happening. For us, I would say it's, it's a 50-50 split at the moment, because when we entered the market, we actually entered through a linear route. But then as we have now actually widened our reach, I would say it's pretty much catching up and the next year or so, surely over the top is going to take over for us. That's a good news for, you know, a platform like Shorts TV, where we're seeing that 50 percent of the content is getting consumed on connected TVs. So that's definitely an interesting take in terms of premium on each content, possibly the platform or the medium where it's getting consumed also changes basis that. So I would, I would want to ask question to everyone rather, is there a way for you to attribute the success or eventual success, be it the downloads or subscriptions or time spent on OTTs? Like I understand the success metrics would defer basis, the life stage of the OTT platform. So if I have to give an example for an established platform like live, it'll be different versus a OHO Gujarati, which is a new entrant, the success metric could be something else. And say somebody like a Manohama Max, who's again the latest entrant, but also being backed by a Malayalam Manohama, there could be a different definition of success. So say Omkow, Satyajit and Satyadeep, how would you define success for your platform basis the life stage it is? So for us, it's twofold. It's viewing users is one metric that definitely means success. And the other is video views, obviously, so that's the currency. Both combined are the metrics that we follow and we ensure that that's on the rise. That's great. So Omkow, one question is in that case, while viewership and unique visitors is something that you would be measuring success at, is time spent an important metrics for you? Because now that you're on big five, you know that you've penetrated the OTT consuming audiences to a great extent. And hence, will time spent be an important metrics going forward? Or you'll still be seeing that, okay, maybe how I can kind of get more incremental audiences first. And then time spent could be a way of looking at it. Time spent is definitely an important metric for us. So when we talk about we are a premium model, which means that there is some content which is ad supported, and then there is also content which is premium and behind paywall. So for the ad supported business, video views and reach is one aspect. But there is also the time spent, which also means that the user is engaged more with the brand and with the content. And which also means that there is more inventory that is generated for our ad's business. On the premium side, video duration consumption counts because that also talks about the quality of content that we are creating, that also talks about how engaged the subscribed user is and that much more potential of retention. So from a time spent perspective in both the aspects, it's definitely important. So will it be number of content pieces or users consumed? Will that be important? Constantly, you come with say multiple audience in a given month and you would want to see that how many of them are getting picked up by the subscribed users as well? Of course. So there is definitely, each and every type of content attracts different audiences. There is definitely an overlap between the audiences. But there will be users who would definitely, once we have, from a premium subscription perspective, we have yearly subscriptions also. So you will see that those users, even monthly subscribers would come and consume various different types of content, originals. And then we also try to cross pollinate between the other content that we have on the platform. But there is definitely repeat consumption that happens across different genres of content. So how that would be for Soliodeep in terms of Ohu Gujarati? It's a new latest entrant, if I have to say amongst the platforms, but definitely has like a rich regional content that is out there. Hey, Vinay. So yes, it's just been a year since we launched. So I think we're the communicator on the blog, if you could say that. For us, of course, for us, for any SWAT platform, the final metric is subscriptions. But at this moment, honestly, what we want to concentrate on is content reach and time spent on the platform. Those are two metrics we are monitoring closely, which eventually would decrease our turn and increase subscription in the long run. But right now, we are completely concentrating on content reach and time spent on the platform stickiness. Got it. Got it. And for you, Satyajit, how you could say Manohama backing you in a way that people, there's already a credibility built and then how it's getting translated to people coming to your platform. And is that the measure of success for you? Yeah. So for Manohama Max, we have content coming in. I mean, we have users coming in to watch the news content. There are users coming in to watch the entertainment content of the entertainment channel, multiple Manorama. And there's also a group of viewers who come in to watch the web series that they have created originally for the Manohama Max viewers. Initially, there was not much of traction between these different viewers. Our success right now is on engaging these viewers internally so that a viewer coming in to watch a news content is also offered the cinema and the entertainment content of Manohama and also the web series that we have. And if you are able to engage him, that is the measure of success at this point in time for us. So generally, I can safely assume that what you're still saying is even for somebody who's as large as a sony live to a newest entrant, reach all say unique visitors on the platform would always be the number one goal. And then we can look at say either time spent or the number of content pieces a user has paid to be second to. So reach is definitely going to be that first measure of success. Now, there's a question on because considering we were also talking about how regional content is getting consumed or news are getting consumed. This is a question to Satya Ji and Kinnavi that what kind of regional content do we have compared to the big fives or the parent day OTT has? And is it a matter of concern or we are still confident that the content that we have regional content that we have is still strong enough to kind of create its own foothold? We have always marketed ourselves as the number one Malayalam OTT platform. So we are proud of the fact that we are just Malayalam content because we are able to bring in the richness of the Malayalam content that is already here. We are not dependent on the kind of content that is created outside the Malayalam universe. So and most of the users are not so familiar with the content outside Kevla while they might be watching some of the other OTT platforms and they're getting engaged with it. We are quite happy engaging with them with the content we have and we are encouraging users from other geographies also to come in and watch by putting in subtitles and stuff like that so that there is more content consumption of original Malayalam content. We are not getting lost into an array of content boxed as a large Indian OTT platform. We are much happier showcasing all the content we have as a Malayalam only OTT platform. So do you keep a track of the length and breadth of content that the other OTTs have because why I'm asking this is okay I'm sure so that will be one of the all of contentions of kind of upping your game and there's a more content coming on the platform. Can I make the same for you? Like we as you rightly said initially that Gujarati is one language that you guys have mastered and kind of created a lot of content. Now there's somebody like an Oho Gujarati as well on the panel. How would you look at Oho Gujarati in terms of a native Gujarati language platform versus Shemaru which has other content as well as definitely a good chunk of content in Gujarati as well. So very over the last year like we said we've been building our regional we are upping our regional game and we started with building the Gujarati because there was affinity towards the brand the loyalty etc. So today I can fairly say that you know the the amount of number of hours that we have on Gujarati catalog on Shemaru me as a platform cannot be competed by even an Amazon or a Netflix or the other big five that we are talking right so we are entering regional we are making sure we have the right to win and we win that regional game at the end of you know from start to finish because all of us know from numbers like you know every subscriber today has about 2.4 to 2.5 oddities you know that's the ratio absolutely so of course what we are looking at is okay we not there will be a big five before us but then there's a 1.4 that we want to fit into right and that's the matrix we are targeting and going there to going achieve and acquire that. So again as Kenari said that while there could be say Amazons of the world and say Sony lives of the world who are creating a lot of content and say a regional content would also be a part but not like a mainstay for them. So for you considering that you are largely confined to a Gujarati audiences what would be a goal for you and how would you say you know look at Shemaru creating a lot of Gujarati content and possibly being a part of that 1.4 1.5 oddities that they're talking about. So as Kenari like you mentioned we know the library the lives I mean the number of hours of content is not matchable but where we are concentrating is the number of originals we release so in the last 12 months we have done about two originals and that we feel is to concentrate on that apart from that being local here we would want to reach to entire cities where your Hindi and English may not be the primary language of communication or the preferred language of communication and that is where we want to reach. So yeah it is original content and reaching to these. Perfect so here as you rightly touched upon something which is you know how a penetration can go entire to tier 3 cities which also increases say a user base for a regional platform plus basically it helps you to kind of designate content which is more closer to the audiences in these markets. So the big portion of OTT growth coming from tier 2, tier 3 where customer engagement in local languages are necessary conversational AI in multiple languages can definitely aid OTT brands not just reach a wider audience but also drive grand loyalty. So what are your views and how do you have any experience do you have any experiences that you can share on this webinar? So sure so we have realized over a period of time that you know people would want to communicate in Gujarati for us like because we are from Gujarat and we our audience would want to communicate in the language with localization of language even content reach and discovery becomes easier. We haven't reached there we haven't we don't have that facility on the platform right now but we are definitely concentrating towards that and in the next six months we do have plans to really go local and go Gujarati with our communication on the platform and of the platform which I think will help us reach tier 3 cities where language is a barrier and apart from that even habit formation is an issue there so that is also something we are working on. Certainly, certainly so anybody on the panel who can kind of talk about if there are chatbots within their businesses in the past also reason being it only feeds in as an inspiration for platforms like Gujarati in terms of what is the best way to approach it? We have done a bit of efforts of building one trying to explore a way to build conversation paths specifically around support and discovery pieces but I don't believe that the success metric that we defined was the most appropriate one. There's more to understand how this can be utilized by a user rather than making it an offering to the end user as of now. Understanding the idea of how to go about doing things rather than making it a product ready for now. I just want to add here and I think it sort of holds true much more in our domain because the kind of content that we offer and it's sort of niche so of course we do not everybody's target audience but here formation of you know tools like this make a huge amount of difference and just at the expense of repeating myself for us you know I would say community building has been now our number one KRA in terms of because we want to build a community of film buffs people who actually identify with great filmmaking and who also feel that you know there is a filmmaker in themselves and as you see that you know when we look at the example of YouTube the amount of original content which is being created so obviously it doesn't need any rocket science we start creating content but we just want to give people a platform to sort of start discussing what they what they feel about a certain kind of film and that gives a filmmaker a lot of encouragement you know we are and at the moment building a platform where our users would be you know able to interact through our app live while they're watching the film if they want to show their token of appreciation to a filmmaker they can actually support the filmmaker either donate if the film is for a cause or maybe just show a token of appreciation to the filmmaker so I suppose you know this is you know that's where you know we are kind of it's kind of you know in our we are pushing it as some three or web three where it gets even more interactive back in May this year we actually launched our own community which is called the shorties which was at the Kansas Film Festival and it's all about building that community giving filmmakers as well as viewers a platform where they can come and interact and then that itself is going to give you know brands an additional window to monetize and give their viewers more power. Absolutely that's a great used case because it is not just consumer forward but it is also kind of as in it's not from an experiential point of view but it also dies business at the end of it. So we recently deployed a workflow on WhatsApp and what we've been seeing as a result is most of the users prefer channel to reach out to us and now it has now become WhatsApp you know so there are two things that is transactional in nature and it is consumption led so of course while we're trying to bring into the platform increased stickiness again WhatsApp has become the medium for us but you know there is that thin line on conversational because of the typing skills of our users you know our general language skills you know the conversational the AI driven conversational can reach up to an X point after which we do require a lot of human back in support to hand hold all of these because even the queries etc. So I think until in India conversational AI is not voice driven I think India is a long way for most of the countries outside India conversational AI on basis of written communication has done wonderfully we have not been able to replicate that in India for sure but I think a solution around voice like conversational AI something which will propel this vertical for us. You know it's a very brilliant observation where written text can only do something you know it can't go beyond a certain point and especially in India where considering there are so many languages it will be very difficult like in the countries abroad English largely or say European countries would have their own languages but within India per se you would have so many languages it would be difficult to build a conversational AI which has a feed and as a voice. So Sanjay you would want to throw some light in terms of how this could be done how we possibly can leverage it through a voice as a medium as well. Yeah certainly so first of all you know I was I'm fascinated so far with the conversation just learning so much about the OTT industry I represent OTT more from a consumer standpoint but I think to answer your question I think you know the observation of Kennery is spot on but like any space things evolve and things only get better and better. Now because we are on the language piece currently so I think you know at the back end I mean teaching a machine a language is hard right for us humans only if I have to pick up I'm a begali if I have to pick up Gujarati it will be hard right now think of doing this for a machine it is a hard problem that the technology guys like us are trying to solve but the good news is that you know things have been evolving and they're evolving at a very very rapid pace so till maybe two years back the way AI used to handle this language problem was all about doing translation so let's say someone you know sends a message whether it's text or voice you know in a local language let's say Gujarati the first thing it will do is it will translate Gujarati to English because traditionally English modules are the best right easier to it will yes it's easier to understand and there is lot of data available right Wikipedia is all in English right do we have a Wikipedia translated in Gujarati in Malayalam in Bengali the answer is no and that's where the training data comes in right so two years back that was the de facto model right where the thing first gets translated to English then the interpretation happens and then it's again translated back into the original language and thrown back to the user the good news is that there's been a tremendous amount of investments from governments educational institutes and the likes so today we have language modules which are natively trained on the local languages and especially for the Indian languages things have moved quite fast it is not there yet probably like you know many of us already agree to it but between two years back and now there has been a significant movement and it's only going to get better and the more businesses adopt this solution you know because there's always a human fallback option I think Gujarati you mentioned it just now right that and that is how it will probably be for some more time but with that fallback option you know more and more we see businesses adopt these solutions the quality of the experience on the language side will also get better yeah just to add you know like for example we built conversational models while I was working with Hangama largely deployed on the Alexa platform you know where we did that both for English and Hindi and at that point we've been closing working with Lex which is the back end of Alexa I was working with the Thetains in Seattle I think but the amount of training and data that was fed into Lex was phenomenal at that point in time and the what we've seen is you know we've just seen these giants make that initiative for languages that originate from this country we've not seen you know large you know corporations out here who had those training models on so that's point one another thing is most of us what I've seen in consumers is they like even a Hindi speaking consumer he's not speaking Hindi he's not speaking English he's probably speaking English right so he's probably speaking English but it's a mix of both he's even convincing in WhatsApp or other meetings in that and thirdly you know which technology you know goalposts changing every year the consumer when he's opening our raps he's like you know so the perception for consumer is technology is advanced to so much level that we should just understand and that's the fear that holds us back on saying is it ready to give it out to the consumer because the consumers expectations are top-notch when it comes to see that's where entertainment vertical their expectations are top-notch you know absolutely absolutely I mean at the end of the day you know that's where I keep coming back and telling my clients you know it's important to choose the use case right which use case do you want to deploy these solutions in and where you do not want to right so think of you know as a simple use case we are talking about big volume numbers of all of your businesses going up pandemic led etc I'm sure the support calls have also gone up with maybe very simple things like I want to renew my subscription I mean I was myself had this trouble and it's so hard to reach out to my OTT choice you know platform of choice to just get this subscription thing fixed right now those can those be the use cases where you start off with right and again one of our customers without naming them at a very simple use case was you know my call volumes in the call center if my agents are busy can I deflect those calls to WhatsApp where I move the customer from the phone to WhatsApp and I think we all agree that in India WhatsApp is the defect to channel where you know your agents are probably able to handle 100 customers or maybe 20 customers at the same shop right so choosing the use case is I think where we need to figure out and you will choose it for yourself at the same time you know this medium WhatsApp hasn't reached economies of scale when it comes to pricing right if I have to do it on other platforms etc and I need to deflect large volumes or to that say notifications evolved and you know the amount of money that I spent on notification has drastically come down over seared decade but WhatsApp is not there you know so then for a banking or a transactional led universe it is much I mean the ROI is very huge but for an entertainment led whether you know the volume the scale and you know the ROI is something we are still you know saying how much is it going to add to the KPIs. So can I say that it possibly is still far away from replacing a person who is at the call center answering your query versus this conversational AI it could be on the platform it could be on WhatsApp but still resolve your problem in the same way maybe more comfortable way because then you as a consumer will still have an option to even possibly raise a way in the midnight and it gets solved versus a call center person or support team only work for only working the working hours. So I think I would say that as a platform we haven't tried away from WhatsApp at this point right we reach our users both for consumption and transaction on WhatsApp at this point while we are in this phase still figuring out a lot of maths maybe by the end of this financial year we'll have a numbers here we'll have saying okay if this is the kind of investment we are making on conversational led platforms what is the ROI today I would say we have not tried away we've deployed and we'll experiment and we'll have some answers by the end of the year. Perfect. Lokesh if I have to understand for a platform like Aastha what could be the use cases for a conversational AI point of view considering you have a bank of movies that possibly very few partners or you know OTT platforms would have. As I explained earlier we went through an exercise to understand what use cases will work for us and as explained eloquently by Kinnery what we also observed is this technology of conversing isn't most what you would say friendly for a market like India it is good to do if you want to just to support but then it's a very generic use case in case of support the amount of investment was not that high so you can basically go for that route but apart from it not really you know we tried enabling search and discovery and rails and all the other possible things that a user typically goes through while trying to do actions on their phone or TV but the contextual overhead was too much even somebody as what you would say well worse with the aspect of the product as me I found it too troublesome to use and I said no this is not product which is ready for mass consumption it's good to do investment on part of research and see what cases will it solve but I don't think the evolution has reached to the point it's product is ready for masses if I may just add like when you say conversational AI it seems like a the user sends something and somebody responds immediately that kind of conversation but the fact that we have this technology it has helped us to understand the users much better by capturing what this they are doing and then sending back messages as for that so if you consider this as a and it is an AI backed solution so if this is a is the kind of conversational AI that you're talking about then it definitely works because today we send notifications to different users depending on how they are interacting with the content and to get them back to watch some new content that is on everything based on this totally and we have a platform partner who does it but if this is the way it has to be done then it is definitely working because they are we are able to push one-sided Malayalam messages and English text to them which is worded correctly and you know they they get it they understand it and they respond if that is the way it it needs to work yeah it is already working for us but otherwise yeah like most of the panelists have been sharing it doesn't make sense on a conversation basis on a day-to-day kind of scenario so I'll just sorry please okay yeah so you know we also like what kind of you mentioned we also have tried you know we also implemented a what's the workflow for in a conversational fashion or chatbot as of now the use cases are mostly support related but what we are definitely doing is you know having a marketing angle to it which means that we've been marketing use cases to a ready user base and we can tap into that plus we will have a discovery and you know e-commerce also if we that's something that we are planning so some of those use cases are also you know in our in our roadmap to be supported in a conversational format and and I personally believe that there is a lot of potential in that that medium where you immediately are able to respond to the user and and personalize it for for that user's choice so content discover is definitely an important aspect for OTT platform which has wide area of contact the content so it could be in terms of genres that a person would want to see versus a language a person would want to see or maybe it could also be a starting point would be the kind of content it would be a GEC show or it could be a sporting event versus an original OTT you definitely can start that conversation on with the conversational AI and then it can lead to an eventual content discovery that a person would not do possibly a manual in a manual approach so Geesh would a conversational AI work in a similar way for you where we're still talking about a slightly more evolved audience is a question to Talun as well from a discovery point of view. Oh yeah I mean see ultimately your previous I mean we've heard a lot about the challenges of conversational messaging or the last 20 minutes or 25 minutes and I think there are a lot of opportunities as well and just to put some color and context to what I'm going to share is that your earlier question that what are the you know maybe the best metrics for OTT platforms so I would say for for I mean any platform the churn rate which I think is a very important metrics low churn rate is very important especially for SWAT platforms and especially for platforms which have been there for two to three years and now they have a significant subscriber base but they want to also ensure that they're in you so to keep a good very less churn rate the average watch time needs to be high the engagement needs to be high and for that the customers need to be attended to in a very prompt manner and that brings us to the advantages of deployment of conversational messaging and in fact we use a solution from one of the sponsor of this webinar and we've been using that for quite some time now and I would I mean I'm happy to share that almost 60 percent of our customer support queries are now self-resolved by the users after the deployment of the two and if for a platform like docube if which you know is a vertical OTT and which caters to a you know a broad segment but still not the you know it doesn't have a scale of that of a big five for rough for us if it can make such a big difference then I think for a lot of larger platforms and larger OTT context even a reduction of 30 to 40 percent of queries to customer support where some use cases like FAQs or some pre some technical support related questions or some maybe promo code redemption redemption related questions or some payment related issues if a customer can self serve a himself resolution that really helps a lot to reduce costs of manpower of people manning customer support and that also increases the turn around time so I mean 24 seven you're available you don't need to keep anyone in shifts and you know instant query resolution so I think from a customer support perspective conversational layer has been very beneficial for us at least and from a marketing and push perspective I mean personally is just my opinion I personally find it a bit too pushy to send messages because currently SMS has been spammed a lot I mean we all receive hundreds of SMSes every day and we don't want that to happen on WhatsApp and Instagram and Telegram as well so I think I would be very cautious as a brand to push stuff through conversational messaging but I would definitely want to resolve the queries of you know my customers through this medium. Perfect. I would like to add here is that while I echo whatever Girish just said I mean surely when it comes to support conversational AI play in a huge amount of roles but I think you know the main difference between OTT and linear TV is OTT is very with a first person led it's very personal it's very personal linear is a very very passive and I'm sure you know we're not getting into a debate here but this but the reason I'm using this because it actually gives you an opportunity to reach out to each and every subscriber address them with them address them with their first name and then start and this can then help you with offering personalized recommendations it can also then help you to reduce the chance because then you can you know start pushing personalized offers which would then help you do for retention as well as upselling as well because you know exactly what your subscriber have been watching how much they're watching perhaps they watch this and then we need to add this to it and that is going to play a huge amount of role I I understand that you know technology only can take you to a certain extent but it's it's evolving it's evolving on a daily basis and I guess we would reach a stage where it's going to be hand in hand and you know perhaps we can deploy resources somewhere where we don't need to you know personally answer query so I think people like to be addressed as first person so it would be great if somebody just send me a message and say hey Karen this is great you know good to see you this morning I hope you enjoyed watching the Oscar shot last night and then that kind of you know makes people connect to the brand and and that is going to play a huge massive role certainly that's that's a definitely valid point where it also adds to the user experience and not just on the back of the content but also on the back of the service that's been provided traditionally to the users such you don't want to have any closing notes on conversational AI and then we can move on to a few questions on OTT fact as well how you want this to be perceived in the coming years and how what is the scope of work that can be done to make it almost and more adaptive with the OTT platforms? Yeah so I think you know I'll probably add two points here I totally you know because these sentiments express so one is I think it is proven that conversational AI adds immense value on the customer support side right so and that's that's a big piece of the OTT business especially with rising users you know and giving them that experience and the personalized attention I think where it needs to evolve and that is what we coming from the technology industry we work every day in day out is I think to address some of the points which Lukash talked about right that you know at the end of the day it's about understanding the end user and making sure that you are you know you are able to understand not just the end user and the preference but also the context in which the user is interacting with you and then give relevant answers I think the good part is that you know as every tech industry we are slowly seeing verticalization emerging as well so you know at least in Gapshap and some of the some of the you know industry trends that we see is within conversational AI you are seeing the emergence of vertical specific solutions emerging which means that you know there would be AI models you know which is first trained on the language that's it's a Gujarati but then you know the next level of intelligence comes from the same model is now aware of the OTT domain as well right so when you talk about a piece of content what are those relevant attributes of that content which a customer will typically talk about the AI models trying to understand knows before and then is able to understand the context and give relevant response so again it's not there yet in the shape and form we all wanted to but I think Tarun mentioned that technology is changing every day and sooner than later you will have those solutions as well so helping enterprises on the revenue side would be what you would start seeing you know in a big way going forward. Amazing, so one of the questions to Omka this is again coming back to the OTT in the tourist form how do we look at T-Vod as a buying model will it be parallel to the release in times to come that's something that's already been experimented by few movies and it looks like a way forward at least from an early access for a movie on an OTT platform but in years to come do you see Sony live, indulging in T-Vod as a buying format and at an overall OTT level do you feel ending would be like a big business shift that happens? So from an industry perspective yes there are there are several OTT platforms that are using the T-Vod model and Sony live in its previous avatar was also using that model but in the current space that we are I don't think that the economics works for us in terms of the acquisition cost of the content the acquisition the user acquisition cost so it's better to retain that user for a longer period with a subscription instead of having a one-time purchase and one-time consumption from that sense. So if you are in a T-Vod model then you will continuously need some or the other title to be acquired and you know you retain that user in that fashion. So for us as of now it's subscription model. Yes it really works for us from a web series and original perspective also that really makes sense to retain that user for a longer period and but never say never you know probably sometime later down the line we could experiment with T-Vod. Certainly so question to location considering you know there are a lot of so YouTube was the first platform which actually came with movies on end and then say a few other platforms also latched it up. Now considering Eros as a platform has a lot of movies already there do you want to explore ending as one of the mediums or then subscription is only reality? Eros has been in the business for far longer than most of the guys. I can tell you that we started off as an India broad renting the movies digitally model. So we did that way back in 2012, 13, 14 sort of a phase and that is what basically culminated into the idea of bringing this as an S-Vod service. We are aware that S-Vod as a platform has a much more what you would say friction-free approach for users. India indulging in payment on a whole I come from creating a payments back in background I can tell you it's very tough engaging with people and payment problems in India on a whole you would rather be you know better off getting them nominal subscription which is recurring without their actions involved. So then that's a good direction for a lot of consumers as well that while this is being one of the buying currencies but again a long-term subscription would be something that is here to stay while a T1 as a model could be available for you on three of the platforms. One question that is I represent agencies and one thing that I feel and this will be largely say Omkar could take this up is the level of data available on for TV is immense in terms of say a bulk as a body. You have a complete transparency across channels across networks. Now on OTD is the discrepancy between say comm school or app and E and the claim data by the OTD partners that there is definitely a level of discrepancy which comes out in picture right and then what could be the reason of that and how we can possibly go behind trusting say the numbers that are given by the OTD partners or the claim numbers policy. So I think if there has to be any standard that has to be defined then firstly we need to standardize the way we are each of the OTD platforms measures data. Different OTD platforms measure time spent differently, sessions differently, what are MAUs and so on so forth. So I think there will be definitely a standardization that is required if and some central body like IMA or whichever will have to take that stand and then buy in from the other OTD brands, the bigger OTD brands you know and once that once we have that standardization then probably the next step would be to get that data and avoid that resistance from the OTD brands to be able to you know openly share that data with those brands. I think that would be a challenge. So do you think you can say live as one of the largest OTD would be happier to kind of come in agreement with say a body like IMAI and say that okay we should normalize this or regularize this for the good of you know at an industry level. Sure I don't see that as a challenge upfront but I'm sure there are a lot of legalities and regulations that one has to abide by and if as an industry we decide that we want to standardize this then definitely. I guess Baak had also started a discussion on ICAM coming in picture but that didn't take off the way it was expected. His that would have standardized a lot of things within the OBD space. Yes so it was amazing discussing with this panel largely giving a good insight in terms of our OTD business has turned up post pandemic what are the nuances and how possibly we can look this to take off in the years to come. So I believe that three takeoff is that I would largely take from this discussion is the SOA business will largely go on the back of the OTD original. So that's one definite roadmap for the OTD platforms if they have to go their subscription original content would be a definite brand that they can look at. Second is from a recent point of view regional content partners are confident enough and that is definitely below that comes out that regional content would be strongly consumed by tier to tier three audiences than say a Hindi content or say a pan India content. So there's definitely a room and headspace for the regional OTDs to kind of grow within the ecosystem. And third is actually largely discussed from the conversation AI while definitely there are few used cases in English and for the world audiences definitely a case that Satyajit called out from a Malayalam audience point of view. But largely if you have to make this as a success at a regional language level point of view there is a roadmap and a definite work that is started out for the tech partners how they can kind of make this an inevitable conversational AI not just in English but across languages to enhance the user experience. Closing define this is for all the speakers over here define the journey of OTD in one word till now and what do you see OTD becoming in next five years two words from each of you. I think it's personal entertainment I think I would the two words would be personal and entertaining. I think till now the journey and so far are being scale right all of us have seen humongous scale over the past you know the day geo launched in this country and going further I think I would second you know Garcy it is personalised entertainment. I would use two words as enriching the journey and for the future I would say it would become essential. I would say more power to the customer and the viewer and the viewer viewer can never be out of this game so I get the context. I would say focus on high engagement I think it's all about the two-way engagement. For us it has been for this journey so far as personalised entertainment the future is regional. Certainly as a consumer it is for me it is a life saver. I can't imagine a pandemic without thank you guys. So with all the flaws for all these folks over here also responsible for the entertainment that we had during the pandemic and also creating OTD as one of the largest mediums after CTV for consuming content a large form content so while YouTube definitely is one of the largest platforms but it has short form content all types of content but when it comes to fictional content or documentary content or even say an entertainment content I guess OTDs are pioneer and definitely created a room for itself in the entire content consuming space across not just digital but across CTV and cinemas as well. So over to you. Thank you. Sorry if you can hear me all of you. Yes. Thank you and for summing it up so beautifully and for moderating it and thank you everyone for joining us on this discussion which was an e4m and gupship joint webinar on building OTD brands through personalised conversational messaging. A lot of takeaways from this and we are already getting a lot of messages from our social handles and we will pass on that feedback but thanks once again for joining us today.