 We turn it over to Brezo to do their presentation, and then we'll talk about the contest, and talk about sleep. So thank you, folks. Can everybody hear me? There's a little bit of echo in here. My name is Steve Ruin. I'm an architect with Brezo's in Middlebury. And we've been working with the Eastmen Community Group now for about the last year. Sort of assessing the building, looking at the past documentation. A lot of reports were done by various folks prior to us getting involved. So we've been reviewing those reports, looking into the past permits for the building. What the state has allowed the building to have for septic function and what the fire marshal has said needs to be done to the building and what kind of odds that load we might be able to expect here. And after that, we sort of spent some time with the group prioritizing roles and then putting together a few concepts and pricing those concepts to understand kind of what is the order of magnitude of the effort that we need to embark on here. We're going to make this continue to have this building be a vibrant part of the community. So we've struggled a little bit in scope. There's been a lot of great ideas and we put dollars to those ideas but the numbers have really sort of looked sort of on it. We've been trying to do recently to see if we can narrow this back down to something that will be executable potentially in phases and would allow the building to kind of operate at maybe a low level. Begin with the next couple of years while people are working on maybe some more funding sources and then potentially add to the project as the finances will lie. So tonight I'm going to kind of go through an overall, a big overall review of kind of what we see as the building needs and how we've categorized those into phases. I'll touch base pretty quickly on the numbers that we've associated with what we're calling phase one and then show you a little bit about what we were thinking about future work. So some of you found these already but there's some presentation material. There's a few copies, about 25 copies. I'm not sure how many folks are going to be here tonight of both the preliminary phase one budget, the preliminary sort of what we're calling the primary goals design scope and also an overall list of all of the tasks that we see involved with the building. And we can obviously provide more copies to anybody. You provide back some of that email address at the end of the meeting. No, I'm not on the computer. And any of the information that you see are here tonight. We can get to you in another forum by PDF, by email. I know it's being recorded tonight. So if for some reason you missed something or you want to look at it in more detail, that's available. So the first and foremost goal we want to achieve with the building is to allow it to be occupied again. Right now this is kind of a special exception that the fire marshal is made to allow small meetings to happen in the building. The downstairs is off limits. Otherwise the building can't be used for public functions. And the fire marshal has sort of a list of issues that they came up with to make the building compliant for public meetings. The first one is basically to improve accessibility compliance. Right now as you know it's difficult for folks who are disabled to get in both the front door and obviously through the second exit you see here. And we want to do some work to improve one of the entrances here to make it fully accessible as both a fire exit and for wheelchair accessibility. And to get folks to that spot, you notice there's a couple lawn signs out here that say, you know, here's an official ADA space which lawn is not normally an official ADA space. So we're proposing to put in some pavement up here with some paved walk to get to a ramp to bring it around the corner to a lowered version of this exit door right here at the moment. They also want to have vertical access provided to the lower level. The restrooms are on the lower level. A lot of the functions in the building, primary functions in the building are on the lower level. So they want us to have vertical access between the spaces. So we're proposing to put in a platform lift that would be out of the front foyer and that would provide access between the levels. The restrooms, if any of you have been downstairs, are nice little closet size. You might find your RV. But they don't meet ADA and they don't provide enough pictures for the kind of object that we're hoping to be able to achieve. Obviously we have some challenges for egress, stairs with no rails, not really an enclosure that's separated off from the stage. The steps out front are a little tricky. So we want to fix some of the exiting issues with the building and then there's some life safety features in. The first one here, they've asked for a firearm based on the building's occupant load. And this is sort of a topic that also might be negotiated with them to be phased. Right now the number of folks that are in the building wouldn't necessarily require a firearm. But if we were to get the number of folks in here that would like for say a wedding function, with some alcohol and a band playing, that would fire off the requirement for sprinklers. And as a trade-off, the fire marshal is willing to allow the firearm to take the place of the sprinkler system. That's primarily because putting a sprinkler system in this building, obviously we know a public water source would be prohibitively expensive. Now in the short term, if we have a small occupant load and limit the type of functions we have here, for instance a meeting we're seeing today, the firearm might be a negotiated further phased. Right now it's included as part of the primary goals budget, but that's one of the things that we might be able to talk about moving down the road a bit. The same thing with the kitchen hood fire protection. Right now they allow the kitchen to remain as it is if you do nothing now in the kitchen except to warm food. So if the food is brought in from somewhere else and it's just warmed in this kitchen, then they don't have an issue with it operating as it stands. If you want to actually have a cooking function downstairs, then we have to add the first step is to add a residential ancill system. And that involves a small ancill canister like we would see. Ancill is the fire suppression you see in commercial kitchens that sprays foam into a large cooking line. They make a small residential version for like food caravans and things where you put this up in a cabinet above a normal residential hood. And we would need a couple of those downstairs to allow you to cook downstairs. And that's kind of a fuss in detail, but it's in their list, so I wanted to mention it while we're talking about it here. We have a handful of other things that we've picked up not necessarily on the fire marshals list, but as we're going around, there's some rising runs on stairs with no handrails or non-compliant handrails. We have some very narrow door widths for egress that don't comply. There's no emergency lighting in the space. The exit signs that need a refresher. There's a slew of electrical open boxes and things of that nature that need to be picked up on. And there's really, although there's a nice streetlight outside in the front of the building, there's no exit lighting outside at the back exit, nor in the rear of the building. We'd like to make sure we should step out of the building and see what you're doing. And so there's a couple of slides here just to, you know, just to kind of, most of you folks, if you're here today, sorry, just one piece of equipment I wanted to pull out. So just a couple of pictures here. I know they're kind of small to see. But obviously the front step, this is a nice homemade sort of ramp rallying situation that we obviously need to correct. But we would try not to use this as the primary ADA entrance. To make this compliant for ADA, we would actually need to replace the doors, which are historic for you folks. They're not necessarily officially historic because there's a historic preservation. This building is not on the register, as far as I understand. It's not part of the, it doesn't have to comply strictly with the historic preservation rules, but that's a feature I'm sure you don't want to change. More of the granted steps out front. So that makes it a very difficult thing to modify and make an ADA accessible. So our solution is actually bringing folks in through a ramp off the side door and we'll use that here in a little bit. Again, just showing the egress issues that I pointed out here. Some of these slides are necessary because we're sitting in the space. But outside there's kind of a nice residential version of a patio deck stair that we would need to make, you know, turn into a more compliant public exit. You can also see the lawn signs out here. Nice touch. Here are the nice cabinet sized bathrooms. The stairs, again as we pointed out. The balcony stairs are a nice steep climb for those of you in the wall climbing. We've got stairs with non-compliant railings or no railings at the bottom landings. The exit door from this stairway out into the space below blocks the outside door and there's sort of a handful of these code issues that we want to try to address. And again we talked about here's the hood system that we would be putting in over the two ranges. Again we don't have any egress lighting or emergency lighting in the space and we have a handful of open boxes both here in the attic. And there's a few in the crawl space downstairs. Along with some, there was a home inspector that came in and did a full home inspection, sort of an augmented home inspection on the building. A very thorough job. And they pointed out also a few electrical parameters that we would want to address. So now we come to the meeting potatoes. So one of the primary goals here is to actually stabilize the building. The building on the north side and on the east side sits on stone rubble and that stone rubble goes down just below the frost. And inside of that stone rubble there's a dirt layer and then they poured at some point, David remember when, they poured a concrete foundation wall inside of that space that goes down even further which allows there to be a second floor below us. The space that's between that stone rubble and the concrete foundation is only crawl space high. And that space sees a lot of water infiltration. Obviously air and rodents. It's cold space. There's a stud wall on top of a concrete wall here that's been insulated to some extent. But that stone has shifted and bowed in a few places. And the sill, wood sill that sits on top of it shows signs of deterioration in many places. In addition on the south side of the building, we have a very very low frost wall. It's almost at great with a wood wall that sits on top of it that's been heavily water damaged by roof water coming off. And by I think road water that comes down off of one sixteen and occasionally ponds on the south side of three star circles. And that wall here is pretty compromised and we think it's responsible for a little bit of a tilt that you start to feel when you walk through the building. Over time the building has kind of shifted. And our structural engineer had looked at this prior to us getting involved and then looked at it again when we brought them on board. And their opinion is that the building really needs new legs. It needs a new foundation all the way around with the concrete main space. The stage area was added on at some point after the main building was constructed. And it has a concrete foundation that's in fair condition and we're not actually proposing to replace it. Nor the slab that's associated with that area downstairs. It's really just the foundation underneath this structure and the slab that's associated. In addition to that we want to provide new supports downstairs to help level out the floor and to shorten some of the spans so that in the future we might be able to add some more floor joists to this floor to allow more people to attend a function. Right now the structural engineer has sort of given us kind of an imaginary scenario where this is a church with fixed seats and we scattered maybe 80 people in here. That's about the bone that you can calculate you could have for functions in the space where you're not allowing people to sort of congregate in the middle to jump up and down and scream and yell. You're really sort of having more a meeting sort of like this. But the goal here is really to see if we can have dances, have community functions where you're not so worried about this going off the ceiling while things are going on. And that would require some framing to be put in the floor. But part of phase one, we're sort of saying that to us aside for a moment and saying we're just going to pick up some extra point loads through the posts while we're at the task of replacing the foundation and sort of leveling things out. Kind of getting things straightened up, getting embraced, getting them on new legs. And at the same time, we want to improve the drainage around the building. Right now, when I took a walk around the building, you can see the lawn is kind of cracked up almost on the sill in a lot of places. There's not really a lot of gray pitch away from the building at the eaves. So the eaves are dripping down and they're basically splashing up on the side of the wood sill and everything's staying kind of wet. And what we really want to do is knock the gray down a little bit, put in a big drip bed. When we're putting in the foundation, we can actually dig down and put in waterproofing on the foundation. Backfill with good fill, put in a double pipe drainage system, which is draining at the footing level. It's draining up at the drip edge level. And those drainage tiles will be brought around with a tiny little catch basin which exists out here in the south wall. At the same time, we're going to do a similar operation down here at the bottom of the south elevation. And that would help and add a catch basin help us on at the bottom of the access road slope here to pick up the storm water coming off the road and direct that also to this back catch basin. So basically picking up the water problem around the perimeter so that when we're done, we don't end up with the same issue that we've had up to this point. And obviously while we're doing this work to improve the foundation and since we need new restaurants, we'll obviously need new underslab plumbing. So we're going to take a slab out and put in the new plumbing. We're going to put in some rigid insulation underneath the slab and have a paper barrier. And Betsy, would you do me a favor? I'm going to get out the door right now and I see all my car doors open. So we have a new slab downstairs, a new paper barrier, a new insulation under the slab. And some of you may say, well, it's not an added expense. Well, today in Vermont's new energy code, all slab on grade now has an insulation underneath it. So we would add it for that purpose and also to cut off the condensation you get with the cold basement effect. So the cold concrete, the cold basement, the nice warm room, the cold people starts to sweat and they get flooring issues and mildew issues. So we're going to cut that off with some rigid insulation at the slab. You want to wake up, computer? So again, just some photographs here. These are actually from the home inspector's report. The foundation has found a bucket here. You can see the windows are sort of not on the eye. Some openings in the stone foundation. It looks not right. I hope that the wood sill down below and it's kind of funky. You can see what the water has done to the south elevation here. And some of this wall is pretty heavily deteriorated and it's also a barrier for this side of the building. So you can imagine what that does to your e-wines. You can see the erosion that the street water coming off of roof 14 comes down to the access road and plays games with it. And sometimes this blocks up and there's standing water in this area. And then over in the back corner here where my cursor is pointed is the catch basin. And we would try to tie all of this into the new drainage. And I'm sure you can't see these. This is just a picture of the crawl space foam rubble. There's some mildew and therefore larson's forming on the wood sill. The backstage roof has leaks in it and that's damaged to the stage floor in a couple of spots. And the roofing over the stage is also undersized. The structural engineer is recommending that we beef that up at some point. And then home inspector was pointing out that up in the attic in a few spots there's places where the rafters have some insect damage. And some what we call blocking in between some of the rafters that needs to be corrected at some point. So that kind of ends what we would call the primary goals. And the biggest nut to crack obviously is the foundation. And trying to find a way to do that again. Phases is difficult. You don't want to sort of spend just a small amount of money to get the foundation done which disrupts a lot of things. Disrupts the services to the fire department. Make restrooms inoperable. Wouldn't necessarily address the accessibility issues because we wouldn't be putting in the platform left if we just did the foundation. So if you just narrow the score down to putting a new foundation under the building. Now you kind of love the building. You spent some money. You've made the building last longer. But it's not going to be useful in the near term. So that's the thing we're sort of struggling with right now is how to develop a near term plan. That allows you to use the building in the near term. But still make steps forward with improvements. I'm going to jump. So can you just explain to people the utilities that are in this building. And how they provide services in the fire department. Because we've got a lot of disrupts. But I don't know if everybody understands that. So right now, electrically speaking, the power comes from the power cord. Here it comes down to the corner of the building. Runs over into the kitchen. And then there's a circuit breaker in the kitchen that you flip. That turns power on and off to a conduit that runs over to the fire station. And you know, it's kind of appropriate. This used to be a fire station. The fire department uses this building. They have an office downstairs. They're not using now, but they have in the past. And they used to park fire trucks underneath. So the two buildings are married by history anyway. The other service is water. There's a well directly behind the building here that runs to a pressure tank in the corner. And that water is split off and one of the taps runs over to the fire department. Telephone and data also coming in off the street here and going underground to the fire station. The last service that the fire station needs to use here is the restrooms. There are no restrooms in the fire station. And there's a permitted septic design for both this building and for the fire department that allow 63 occupants in the building. And that's based on the size of the reach field that they were able to fit in the back parking area and the capacity of the septic tank in the pumping station that are located out here in the south side. The fire station at the same time had a pump station and a septic tank permitted to be installed behind the fire station, but it was not built. And there are no restrooms currently built in the fire station. So they use this building for a restroom function. So while we're renovating this building, if the restrooms are taken out of commission, there's really no restrooms or water source potentially in. And the electrical way could probably keep going and only have to knock it out every once in a while, but the other services might be out for a longer period of time. But I think, is the heat? The heat, I believe, is separated now. Yeah, in terms of heat for the building, there's a farm of propane tanks up behind the building you've probably seen. And the kitchen equipment runs off another tank sitting over here. And that runs a boiler in the corner that runs hot water through the registry you see here upstairs and through some hot water baseboard downstairs. And also a unit heater in the back exit hall. And I think before I jump into the dollars, because it's going to require a sort of exit to another program, I'm going to run through the finished going through the slide just to show you some of the secondary considerations that we consider and also some other further optional ideas. So the reason why I put these two slides up on this page is that what you didn't hear me talk about in the primary building was fixing the building. You know, there's lots of outside work that needs to be done. Windows need to be replaced. The doors, some doors are not functioning. There's flooring issues downstairs. There's a whole host of issues that are not on the primary goal of this. And primarily because they're not critical to get in the building, but they're obviously things that if you're a good steward you want to take care of it. So we're just going to run through these a little bit here. And you can see on these two slides just the condition of some of the siding on the outside. You can see the south wall, the south wall here. And it's, you know, it's doing kind of a little happy dance here at the sill line. The Eve has started to do a little happy dance. Sort of the thing we want to kind of shore up and straighten out. The backside of the building obviously needs lots of TLC. Roof, don't forget the roof. That is past its useful life. So again, just to step back to one of the goals we were talking about today in the project is that, you know, the number we were really shooting for functions in this building, like rents and weddings, or concerts, is about 150 folks. And now that's a number, the building action by code will handle put a bit more than that. But the fire marshal will be able to allow us to post it limited to 150 so that the other impacts of that high occupant load don't filter into the budget as well. As we spoke about before, there's wastewater restrictions on the site. So since the state water permit only, wastewater permit only allows 63 folks, our civil engineer has discussed a possibility of scheduling large events that are larger than that with a pumping exercise to basically empty the septic tank before you have a large event. This might happen four times a year if you're really, you know, booking some big events four or five times. Depending on just how popular the venue becomes, the drive, how often, right now you can't access those tanks without doing what we all do at home, which is big demand. And that's not what you want to do before a big event. You want to be able to just walk up to a cover, flip the cover, deal with the issue and go on. And so in order to put those will be called risers on those tanks with a cover. There's some money involved. And we've moved that money off to the side now because what we're saying is in the short term, while we're trying to deal with this, you know, putting new legs into the building, while we're trying to deal with some of the things that the state fire marshal wants you to take care of while you're, you know, to use the building, we may need to reduce expectations of debt and put some of these things on the side until, you know, there's more funds. So reconstructing the tops of the septic tanks is one of those items that's sort of set aside. It could be however, but that's something that in the interim, you have somebody willing to donate their time and install it. So that's also an idea that we can, you know, there's probably plenty of those ideas we can talk about sort of towards the end. Main floor structural loading, again, I already sort of touched base on this. You know, if we kept it at the 63 occupants limited by waste water permit, the structural engineer would likely not have an issue here. You know, it would again not be, you know, wide-dancing out of the space, but it would be, you know, we'd be able to have functions like this. What you are talking about adding posts in the basement, all right? Strategically, yes. Exactly where they would go right now is still to be determined, but what we would want to try to get those, at least prepare for them while we're putting in the slabs and the perimeter foundation, we prepare where those spots were going to be located so that they, and potentially put them in so that we could again get things level for when we're ready to do more work. Those long-term goals should be to have no goals in that downstairs, right? To put something that would carry the core. There was nothing worse, I don't know, I looked around the room and I see a few people that probably attended them, but to go to those big dinners down there and it was post, post, post, and you know, pitch a little bit up against them, and we're going to do it so you can have big events and whatnot. You can do it so it's going to carry its load, have a variety of goals, and I think that phase one, putting posts in there to secure it is going to be phase two, a lot of people get it supported, so you don't have to have 15, 20 posts down there to work around. Right, but we'll touch base on that in a minute because there's some other ideas here that sort of tie into that. So here's kind of a short list of the things that we didn't talk about in the first round, replacing the roof, fixing the stage floor, siding interior plaster, you can see up above the balcony up here, there's some of it's coming down. I would say in general for building this stage, the plaster is in fairly decent shape, but there is some areas among the eaves and if we get into things like reinforcing the balcony floor, obviously the plaster under that would be compromised. A lot of our heaters, both need to be replaced. The lower level base floor heat is in pretty poor shape. The windows, some of them get cracked, there's been a desire to replace them expressed, and these are the best things that you're looking at here. There's lots of smaller windows that are in less good condition. Right now on the insulation point. So the lower level is insulated at the outside wall in that little knee wall inside of the stone foundation, that's insulated, and then this floor was spray-filled at some point. So if you took down the hung ceiling downstairs, if you looked up, you would see shallow timbers with spray thinner in between. And our thought was that this is where the water well lives in the building, it's down at the lower level, the restrooms, the kitchen, all those functions. So to be efficient with your heating dollar during the winter, the idea was to heat the basement and not heat the upstairs. There's no insulation in the walls up here or in the attic. Or above the stage roof. And we weren't able to get into the stage floor cavity. I'm assuming that there's probably insulation in that cavity. So the insulation, what's heated at a frost-vention temperature is below us, and then everything above us, the heat is only turned on as needed. And there's really nothing wrong with that scenario. When you do have an event here in January, you are contributing to the un-fine of the general neighborhood, but that's just for a short period of time. But one of the things that we talked about augmenting the building program was to insulate the walls and things like that. The lighting obviously is all pretty old school and we would replace all of it with LED. And also there's an interesting stage lighting setup back here that we were probably trying to correct. Well, I see what I'm doing. I'm touching too many surfaces here. Alright, so now we're going to jump into, when we did our first round of design, we pretty much stuck with what we thought was the primary, did you in the door sort of ideas. And then the group really had some interesting ideas to augment that, that they wanted to kind of explore. One of them was actually our structural engineer's idea, and that was to raise the height of the building. And that's on two levels. First we would raise the level of the lower floor probably about eight inches. And what that would do would essentially raise the height of the slab above the adjacent grade outside to sort of give it a little more free board above the water that's happening out here on the south side. And the second step would be to increase the height from the main floor to that lower level. And we would do that enough so that you could have a real eight foot ceiling downstairs. I know most of you who have been down there, the ceiling just about is at my head level. It's at the code minimum. And it makes for a very sort of cramped experience. And to your point, Trina, in order to free-span across that space we would need to develop more headroom because the size of the structural memories that would be involved to eliminate posts would require that we bring the floor level up. The benefits of raising that floor level in addition to having more headroom downstairs is that along the north and grabbing the corners you'd get the sill up out of the soil as well. So you'd get a little more free board again above the drip zones on the outside. The other thing that happens when you raise that floor level is we're allowed now to do things with the stairs on this side and the platform lift location that really are a better design than what we're able to come up with leaving everything up. You can now stack stairs on top of each other, for instance. And now I can put the balcony stair on top of the main stair. And that is more efficient for footprint and you can do a real cold roll around here in the front. You can wheel chair right in too and take care of your coats and bags. And the platform lift is out in the open around the sort of tucked-in corner. And we're able to make a use of, I'll show you a little further along, we're able to make a use of some of that crawl space by dropping in a new foundation. You lose that crawl space. You lose that foundation ball on the perimeter. You want to take advantage of that space. It's difficult to do the building mode because we kind of have to leave the main stair where it is. We have to leave the balcony stair where it is and we have to put a platform lift and hold it away from the balcony stair which leaves some sort of closet space downstairs. It doesn't really give you really useful space. So there are some nice benefits to picking the building up. And so that's another exercise that adds costs. But it's an exercise that you want to consider before you replace the foundation. It's not something you want to say, okay, we're going to replace the foundation and then maybe another five or six years down the road and pick the building up again. And you want to do that while you're doing that exercise the first time around. Yeah, just to emphasize, you have to pick the building up anyway. Yes, just to put the foundation underneath it, we're going to be driving some steel beams through the building like a house moving and jacking the building up basically enough so that we can access the top of the wall, fix the perimeter of Whitsill and give folks the ability to put forms in and pour concrete. So the building is going to have to come up temporarily before it gets set back down. So the other topic of discussion is that how do we improve kind of the site access of right now a lot of folks talking back. There isn't really a formal walk to get you to the front or to this new ramp entrance that we're talking about. John and some others have this idea of if you've been downstairs there's a set of stairs where you have to climb a set of stairs to go out the back door. And if we were able to regrade out here in the back we might be able to drop that door down to the same level as the rest of the floor and people with handicap issues might be able to access that level more readily than having to come out and go through this cycle or even come all the way around the front. That might be a more direct route to the lower level. Since we're adding kind of a nice new entrance over here by the stage of the ramp and potentially adding a nice entrance to the back we wanted to sort of augment those with some rain campies so that you could actually get out of the weather before you went in the door. People could congregate just outside the door as they're leaving. Just make it a nicer experience. So we can show you what that looks like a little later. And then there's no waiting out back either for folks coming from where you can park out back to the building. So we added a few spot fixtures out of the lawn just to kind of give people some weight on them. And then even beyond that there's a few more items. One is to get rid of the tank farm that's out here upgrade and bury the tank so that you're not staring at the tank farm. There's a discussion about changing the roof pitch on the clock tower so it doesn't just look like a flat roof from the surrounding areas that looks more like the pitch you see on the rest of the building. There's a lovely power pole out front that will be nice to move somewhere else and maybe bury the power lines to the building. That would be a big improvement on the appearance of the building from the street. A flag pole has seen better days and potentially a new building site. Even further down the road there's a consideration as to whether or not you want to continue having this building be a built-in port to the fire station and potentially developing completely independent services and install a permanent septic there in the restaurant so that that building can function completely separate from this building. And then real time this guy was an idea to put a commercial kitchen in the stairs which we laid out a scenario of what that might happen. It's a fairly pricey operation but it would be meant for the community to use as a starter kitchen for folks developing their own products or doing cooking events for larger functions just a host of things that might happen with a real commercial kitchen. So that runs again of everything we'd like to accomplish. Again we sort of put some prices on all of this to start and the sticker shop is sort of out of step back. I just want to look now at what's an initial step point if you're worth and take me a minute here just to bring up those numbers and you have on paper some of you that bridge. I'm a little disappointed that there isn't anything on the route so they wouldn't be able to stand out that or have a heartbeat on the side you just hear it like that they talk about finding a side that says parking is an issue and somehow acquiring a portion of all the savings and a back for parking and distribution on the finding side which is too but it can't hurt 150 people here. That's right and I should touch base on parking. We talked a little bit about parking at the beginning and what problems it presented there's very little parking in the back you obviously can't park around the fire station people park on the access road they park on the street it's pretty ad hoc but there wasn't an easy identified solution to that when we start we didn't really talk about purchasing adjacent land we have been lowering it but not very quickly the owner has not returned messages and such right so we decided to set that topic aside you can't have as your 150 people with a limited park when you have that if that's going to drive your capacity in any way your ability to experience parking has to be done the neighbors have through here so people can park on those sides of the 14 it's a that's a critical piece of the puzzle good you or someone who's like without the silver plate reaching out to the ones on the planet would you like to do that and be successful well people all try to for recreation I think the only time that's when you didn't follow the zoning process and put it in a store if you missed it and ended up writing a check back its way out he's not a very community oriented person or easy to reach but I wonder if those 3 house people can park as much old green wood blocks because that's not used we have to contract with this but that's the last one in terms of being able to house the it's a short term it's one of the most actionable benefits yeah so I think the idea up to this point has been whatever has been happening here would just continue to happen and that may be that may be a false assumption and there was some discussion about maybe some shuttles or some other kind of arrangement but we've not we've not sort of been charged with trying to pinpoint any sort of offsite solutions but I completely agree with you and parking as we know the official heart of Dan parking drives a lot of stormwater regulations these days so there's going to be if there's something developed locally there'll be not only land costs but there'll be attention to treatment costs for stormwater as well could you see the maybe the radical of TAN to possibly there was a there was a did you have a question? no I have a question I was just saying a lot between a couple of people in their boor house like the boor house was a vacant lot in between there so trying to get in touch with somebody that's not community oriented there's that vacant lot right there so it could be useful parking a lot the other thing is I can actually the landlord I'm first of all a lot in the past of this is my new landlord and I have a good relationship with him I'm trying to get in touch with him he's real busy but he you know he and I have a good relationship so I'll keep trying to get in touch with him and help him to give us sell us the lot that's in back of this the field that's in back of this building that we could expand into community space as well as parking so I'm working on it thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you That's a personal one for the blue ops, that's a lot. Yeah. I like the side of the society. I think that rules are very important to me. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. Does anybody know what was that in the pot? The blue? The blue. The size of the pot? No, a lot of it. Right. Yeah, that's a cool point. Yeah, it is not really a good one. Yeah, I think that's a good one. Yeah. We get to the end of the stage that one had. Right. There we go. How long do we know? It's just the other thing, so... You know, I think that's a good point. Great discussion. I should keep going. So here's our budget before we've tried to shave this a little bit down to sort of the primary goals for phase one. And as you can see here, addressing just the state farm marshal's issues, $255,000. And for $255,000, that buys you a platform lift, but it doesn't necessarily buy you any improvements that need to go along with it. For instance, you know, shoring up the foundation, putting it in a slab, things you're going to want to do before you embark on putting in a platform lift. That small is the miscellaneous co-ditions and the grant. So again, the big knot is the structural safety and stability. So putting a new foundation under the building, putting in new drainage, putting in new slab under grade, leveling things out. That's really the big ticket. And then there's another $117,000 in longevity issues that we suggest you try to fit into phase one while you're in the process of doing the open heart surgery and all that. So our job is... So that's just the structural. Is that correct? The $465,000... No, no, I'm sorry, the grant total. The $1,000,000, yeah. Yes. This is... I'm just going to step through these part of the time here. So at Red Wolf, we design stuff and then we build it. We also build things for other folks. We build things for architects. But if Red Wolf designs it at Red Wolf, then we build it. And when we do a feasibility study like this, we're able to give you what it's going to cost to bring in professional help to give you a turn to the solution. And our goal here in giving you these budgets isn't necessarily to say, here's what Red Wolf's going to charge you. This is our bid on the job. We're calling this a quarter of a magnitude budget. This means that I've done some pretty sketches. We've talked some pretty paragraphs. But nobody's drawn anywhere wrong. Nobody's done any real engineering. It's really mapping sketch stuff at this point. And our estimators have to wave their magic wand, look at their past experience, look at today's markets, and give us a number so that we can give you something to shoot for fundraising. And we don't want to sell this short. We need to be conservative at this point because we don't want you having to go back for more money unnecessarily because we were sort of being super rosy and out of this and that. So we're including things here that we normally include as part of our business that you may question and say, oh my God, we can't be dangling these people because we should do that. But it's what you would be charged by other folks who do kind of what we do. We want to include it so that you see it as a problem. Here's the hard cost without really without the red gloves involved, $844,000. This is just, if you went out and hired your own subcontractors, brought them in, you were able to handle all the coordination, all the legal stuff, everything on your own. And you just bought stuff from them and they did it on their own. Without any supervision, you might be able to get away with $844,000. To have us involved waving the conductor's wand and jumping through all the hoops and the red tape and everything else for you. You want to have another $844,000. Since this is a mapping sketch estimate, we want to be able to throw a contingency on top of it so that when we do set forth at some point, if we do, into putting more design detail behind these pictures, we can grow into this budget when the details usually cost money and we want to be able to grow into these details without resetting them in the bottom line. So right now, at this level of an estimate, we want to have a 10% what we're calling an estimated contingency. That's number of shrink as the details and the drawings get better. So when you add all these three topics up together, now you're ever from 1.0 to 1, to 4.0. And that's sort of a number we would say you want to fundraise for to accomplish your primary goal. There are other... Step back. Let's go all the way down. There we go. So this is to build the project. We obviously need to finish designing it and we need to hire engineers. And those include mechanical engineers, electrical engineers, civil engineer. We need to hire a host of folks basically to put a package together that the fire marshal will accept and the state will accept for any of the state land permits if they're any involved. The town will accept under their zoning regulations and other regulations. And this is basically a percentage fee at this point based on past experience for a project of this complexity. Renovation projects like this are more time consuming to design than just drawing a brand and building out the middle of the fields. So once you've had the design fees on to the budget, now you're at 1,123 to 4. On top of that, we now have what we call owner's costs. All right. In a traditional scenario where you hire the architect and then the architect helps you hire contractors, the design fees might be under owner's costs. Since this is a breathable study, we have the design fees under our umbrella because that's the way to work. But there are other owner's costs that are involved in the project. You need to test your concrete and your steel. We might need to dig a test pit just to check on ground water or there's some rumors about arc holders. There's some insurance costs. The fire safety permit for the scope of work we're currently proposing is almost $9,000. And then we have what's called owner's fees. Now this is a contingency we recommend that you keep for things that are unforeseen. We started digging out the foundation and we find there's a spring that wants to run 24-7. We find that there's a real rat's nest with asbestos that you can't see right now. Or as we're going along through the design, you're like, you know what, we're at it and you really need to do this. And we just didn't think of it that way. That gives you a little bandwidth to plug that working while we're at it. And right now we're suggesting a 5% so when you add it what we call the hard costs with the soft costs now you're at 1.2. Now you're at 1.2. Alright? This number was up over $2.5 million and we looked at the entire of everything that we found on our own. So we're about half of that right now but we probably need to do that. Any questions before I jump to showing the plan? Yeah. So we raise the floor in this foundational work and then you said with a little more work you had more floor joists to make the floor like the dancing floor for instance. How much would that cost? Do you have that in those extra floor supports just as a thing to do in that piece of work? Do you know what I'm asking? I do, yeah. So in this budget package that folks may have a paper copy of there's let me get to that in a second. I just want to let people know that behind this front cover sheet there's a category breakdown of detail that talks about if it's the fire marshal work if it's the fire marshal list there's a detail of what that includes and the category is provided with a lump number. We didn't give sort of 10 screws times 50 cent sequels whatever. We tried to stay above that because right now those numbers aren't really suitable for that kind of scrutiny. We're at too high on a level right now for that and we didn't want to get bogged down but it does allow you to look at general categories that we do have that number in another estimate, the bigger estimate for the whole scope for what it would cost to at that point we would be reinforcing the whole floor and in addition we would probably reinforce the roof over the stage we'd probably reinforce the stage floor and the balcony floor. Those are all interrelated upgrades and that's a big ticket by itself and I don't know how the dollars specifically associated with it here but that category we have priced and if people want to know what that is worth we can we can put that out. The room section of the budget that's included that's what's included in the room section. This is through detail on the categories you brought up your overhead project which I understand what that is and then you brought up 102,000 for your engineering staff and all that but there was also 148,000 in a year for project so 465 so in that million in one there's 148,000 and 102 to go towards your services so I think you're referring to general requirements? I'm referring to building internal safety of 148,000 and 84,000 which is your overhead and 102 professionally where if you had your overhead staff you would design it and you would build it. That's right. So I'm looking at those three numbers as the project overhead and profit this is where the estimators have probably a better explanation than I do but the overhead and profit is you basically it's our profit to run the job so that we can pay for office staff, copies, whatever that's sort of the normal thing that's right general requirements however those are the job super-run staff the site trailers, the safety equipment rental of lifts it's a whole slew of things that doesn't get you anything in terms of an actual object in the building when you're done but it allows us to construct that's 330,000 to you guys if you were the one to design it and build it of the 1.2 that's right so about 25% right and general requirements is pretty much at this level an estimate which is plugged in based upon schedule so how long is this going to take how long is it going to be trailers on site how long do we need to have a job super here and forming and things of that nature how long does staff have to be up how long do we have to have Jacks in all of those things that support the project how long do they have to be here how long do we have to have a round way of figuring that and multiply it by the length of construction duration and that's where this number resides we had to put it somewhere in the hard construction and it's under the biggest topic because that's going to be the biggest scope of work obviously that money doesn't go to you because of Jacks and trailers it's not profit for bread loaf it's cost that we associate with a job but we don't put them in with a subcontract and we don't put them in a category where you think you might be getting an actual physical object for your dollar it's not a plumbing fixture it's not a light fixture you're not going to own the scaffolding when you're done so question I actually have trouble with public policy so is it possible for work to be if you haven't already gotten this I do feel there's some and I recognize it probably is available for all of us here but some of it really likes to have great buildings et cetera we do have it we don't have a line we've not distributed a line like this we did and obviously we wouldn't be able to put that in together but we have found we're at this level of discussion what ends up happening is that folks want to kind of pick apart each line item and pretend at this point we can shop it around you know why are you charging extra concrete footings right now when I know Fred got the world I'm going to take him for X and we don't really want that to happen that's not really what this exercise is about there will come a time that would be appropriate and that kind of exercise will be welcome but it's not right now that's the thing I'm sure a lot of you are in the contractor business right now understand how to follow with everything so that's even more of a reason not to like be putting a firm number on something and say this is exactly what this is going to be right now we think this category is going to be around so it's about what we're comfortable publicly stating right now absolutely I'm not going to talk about that I'll just do the next question this is things like you know contractors when we go out today so there are many ways to procure this product and it doesn't necessarily have to do with these dreadlocks dreadlocks model is a bit different than other products for instance the design folks are under the same way as the contractor we subcontract most of the trades so sheetrock and carpeting things of that nature would be bid we prefer to work with design build electrical and mechanical subcontractors so we would bring a firm into design and build the electrical system that would be bid out amongst several firms that would be a single source as our week but for a lot of smaller sub-trades we would bid them out we also self-reform some work depending on the situation sometimes we can't find somebody to install the orders so we would we did the doors out but then we would install it's kind of a mix and match kind of thing depending on the product convention thank you thank you thank you thank you I think we're I think we're just going to the detail of the frame this is all concept right now we're talking about all the values but it comes close to where you're ready to go into construction and you figure out what you really want and whatnot then the town actually will look at how to procure it and it won't just be handed to somebody we did the fire station we defined that they had to go out on different different tasks and they had to be at least a certain percentage that was you know folks that they send the bids out to the local we couldn't say they had to be a local contractor but they had to give the local contractors an opportunity so we're not really at that phase yet we're still at the what are we looking at and what are we looking at these questions are I feel that this is a first model for fundraising for businesses and art these are things that I thought thank you thank you for your presentation I didn't catch your name but I assume you represent Breville yes so probably everybody here agrees that saving this building is important I just heard fundraising who's paying for this who's paying for the 1.2 million dollars is it the town of Randall or is it going to it was a question that's the part that I couldn't answer it's first like here's the scope of what's being talked about first off is it something we want to do can we have more than what does it look like okay we're not going to raise a check if it is paid by the town of Randall and the next question is is it going to fall on east valley residents or is it an entire town of life building it's not a town but it's not just like the whole price of this it's falling on the town yes we have these people who have a couple of grant writers in membership and we have good credentials in the grant library good possibilities good success in obtaining grants and so what we would be interested in primarily is a matching group a matching contribution from the town so the whole thing wouldn't fall on the town and the whole thing wouldn't fall on the grants I'm going to follow up a question is there a project manager yet that will represent the town working with the proposed architecture you're a volunteer that is a sign what we'd love to have there you go we also live in the south I think I want to just get through a walk through the design real quick and then I think this is a great general discussion so we can finish up just with what's up on the screen here real quick we can have a ground type one thing can I pull that projector back make it bigger I think I can well I can't really mess with the screen but I can do this it's just going to go off the screen it's still better I think I'd rather do it and not better well this slide might be okay but I'm not sure about the next one let me just blow it up with the you need the side bar that's fresh one more time alright so this is all over ahead of you we have route 14 out here and what here's the new here's the new couple parking spaces and a aisle for handicap parking there's a new in this scheme this is just an asphalt walk it's an asphalt parking lot and an asphalt walk that connects the front steps with a new ramp alright in this scheme we would add a new walk just add a gravel from the current gravel access yard to the side entrance and we'd add a new gravel walk door we're keeping the existing propane tanks there's really very little other site improvements in this scheme yeah so theoretically we think they're right here they are I did talk to Perth Harold Harold yeah I think he did say they were right under the road you can't really put risers you can't put risers you have to do a copy yeah you might have to have a pad but you can drive over them if you construct the problem and this would be the catch basin we didn't start to pick up the road and this is the audience if you raise the building correct now this is if the building stays at the elevation that it's at right now Steve do you have any sense of how much more of a cost to raise the building higher than what you are in the SA I have to go back and parent that out does it not involve the reports that you send us? yeah so it wasn't the original estimate I have to do a look at I don't have a simple makeshift do you have a question yes back when I was a kid where the kitchen is now the JVT floor is now you would have that door it would down the hill to the door here so how come you just don't dig the door here back down here in separation okay I'm not sure also about what's going on with the access road rating it almost seems as though it was put in to attempt to keep the water from going on to the neighbor yard it used to be a wash and like I said that was similar to the floor for that kitchen floor is that was a lower section out there it's still a little bit of a step down as it blew back oh okay but anyway when you went out that door it was the animals that would go away like for five inches and that's how much they were waiting every time they would walk out on the ground and the water never went to the next place it went across the road over to the next person over there it would swell up so it would go over there not down but just to my question would be raising the building anyway raising it eight four inches of economy deal compared to the concrete that's what we're talking about the stuff that goes along obviously when you raise the elevation up from grade the ramps get longer we have to add more steps at the front door there are a few things that go along with it you're talking 20 inches you're talking 20 inches raising the building 20 inches right eight for the basic work that's right so it's 20 inches the main level compared to the grade out here yes so that does have some big implications on the ramp so here's the here's the main level improvements again we have the parking the two asphalt walks up to the ramp and up to the front door the main maneuver to look at in the rear we would take a section of the stage floor and we would make it level with the level that you're on right now and so you could actually take a wheelchair through here onto a landing and down a ramp this area the stage area as you can see is up about 30 inches above this level and that translates into more headroom downstairs so we're actually able to this is over the boiler room and we're actually there's headroom in the boiler room to make this maneuver so you can come through this door which is this door over here now and you walk a set of stairs further in and enter a door onto the stage off to the back but that allows this to be a fully ramped and then level wheelchair access to this space and at the same time in the front of the building we would leave the main stair where it's located but we'd include a real smoke enclosure right now when you walk up to this door there's kind of a folding door over here that doesn't really operate and you step directly onto the first tread like you're going down to your basement stairs there's no landing you just walk right through onto the stairs so we're providing a real landing a real door and some real handrails for that stair but we're not moving the stair and that's important when we go downstairs we'll show you why that's important there's currently a very narrow little coat closet behind the stair which is marginally useful probably for some folding tables and chairs but probably not for the normal public to use as a coat room you can see how the balcony stair wraps around the new platform lift and that also has implications downstairs in this plan and at the front of the building we're really not doing much of anything other than just kind of cleaning up the site a little bit the balcony stair as I noted before is quite a climb it's even beyond what's allowed for historic preservation so we're actually proposing when we're opening up this floor framing for the platform lift we'll actually extend the stair a little bit and make it at least compliant with historic preservation stairs so instead of having to step up almost 12 inches on every rise we'd have something a little more gentle to go up to the balcony on the lower level the first thing to point out is because the balcony stair has to wrap around the platform lift we end up with a little bit of no man's land back behind here this is a little bit of a residual of that crawl space that we were looking at before that crawl space runs right through here and then down behind this stair that slot right there is another artifact of the crawl space and because we're not moving the stair that's also an implication of sort of not picking the building up and basically reduce cost by not doing a wholesale lift of the building with all new floor framing so we have a new bathroom group in here that's right sized for the future 150 occupants we want to put in restrooms that will serve the load we're shooting for whether you build these restrooms could be slightly smaller but you'd want to make sure you had the plumbing rough ends for future fixtures if you wanted to make sure you didn't have to go back in and cut the slab back up you wanted to plan for having larger restrooms for your larger load down the road and then there's another table there's sort of a new storage space here and the rest of the functions basically remain as they are today you can see right now there's one two columns there's two columns in here that exist now there might be a we believe there's probably a third well we might put a third in this wall to sort of take the place of you know where the concrete foundation comes through here right now and there's probably a post here right now and whether we need to add any more or not is sort of still to be determined on the outside of the building there's very little change in this original round you can see the ramp off this back door you can see it's not very long nor does it need to be because we've dropped the floor just inside so it's a fairly gentle ramp with a small landing just large enough to meet code it doesn't it's not a place to hang out and the rest of this is really just shown to basically record the existing condition you know we would probably replace this door at the same time just because of the poor condition that it's in but other than that in general the building would remain as you see it today and again a lot of the rest of these drawings are just to record the existing condition for future study we did do for the estimator state we did do what we sort of a first round of a demolition plan and this would show you know this hatched area here with the diagonal hatching is the floor area that would come out you can see here's that crawl space that's there now that's the area you would gain once you put the new foundation in yeah the boiler is actually fairly recent so we would keep the boiler we need to reroute the flues a little bit we need to do landing configuration outside but the heat plant in the building is solid no this would be just a continuation of the perimeter base I mean radiant is certainly a what's that it's a consideration it's more expensive than solid front but it might save you a lot of time there's really nothing less expensive than hot water baseboard so that's what we're calling the reduce for the primary goals drawing package the optional scope drawings are a little more elaborate in this case we put in around from the parking lot to the main entrances this is a scheme where the building has been raised the 20 inches that we were talking about before so we need to add some more steps to the front there's a little bit of extra landscaping out here with some more stone to make up for that grade change and to clean things up out front some new stone pavers out here where you have asphalt right now in the back we have a new entrance canopy for where you come up the ramp, the ramp is now longer and there's a paved walk that goes from the parking area up to the end of the ramp there's a new roof over that and there's a new roof over a new concrete walk with stone walls from this area to a depressed door we've raised the building and we've raised the lower level up a little bit but we've now made that a little easier to access from the rear parking area at level and remove that stair you'd have to walk down on the lower level this is the main floor plan and here you can see we're able to stack stairs now we can put in a new comfortable stair to the balcony with a new legal comfortable smoke enclosed stair down to the lower level put them on top of each other now you have a real code space with your platform lift you now have a real landing out here when you come up from the parking area up the ramp there's a place for a few people to congregate under cover before you come in this door it's more inviting and we've done things like fix this stair as well as fix that exit so there's now a landing and some railings over here on that stair that's not compliant at the moment yes is there an accessibility model that requires a major instead of having like a ramp to the upstairs so the platform lift is that is what's making that transition without having to use the ramps to go downstairs yes so the ramp gets you to this level and then you can use the platform lift to get to the lower level I understand an accessibility reason why people just have two ramps and then some of them go outside and go down the other ramp that's not allowed by the ADA you can't really force a disabled to go back outside to go to the lower level it's not something everybody else is required to do it's one thing if the function that the disabled had that you wanted them to have access to were just on the lower level or just on this level but because primary functions are located on both levels they're required to provide interior vertical access so now with the raised floor you're noticing that some of those crawl space artifacts are gone we now have a real storage space here in the corner the stairs occupy the full corner the platform lift we have to include a lobby at the bottom of the platform lift as a smoke enclosure to separate it from the upstairs since this is an open platform lift we can't just have it communicating openly between the two levels we have to enclose it on one level or the other and we're leaving it open up here for the visuals and we're enclosing it in a little lobby downstairs so there's a little lobby space once you come off the platform lift there's a little lobby space and then you enter the main community room again we have two right size bathrooms and most of what you see down here would be rebuilt because we've lifted the building up and we've taken a slab out from underneath it and we've raised the slab up so most everything has to be rebuilt down here this is the in this layout we did lay out a commercial kitchen and we placed a full cooking line back here where there's higher headroom which allows you to put in the real cooking put you've seen in most restaurants and this allows space for more refrigeration this eats up a bit of the fire department space and we've given them more storage back across the hall and here you can see we eliminated those stairs in that back exit hallway so now you go straight out through the outside and there's an 88 compliant ramp that goes up to the parking area you can see the longer ramp because of the grade change from the building you can see the new covered porch at the top of that ramp you can see a new covered canopy over the the back entrance that protects this new entrance from the snow and ice coming off the upper stage roof down at this level on the south side we've augmented the entrance here and added some new windows new windows in all of the openings in this scheme and you can also see the clock tower improvement with the the new pitched roof we've provided some new railings and a ramp up to this door level here now because this is now 20 inches higher than it used to be so on the front of the building we have some new railings and a new ramp in addition to a couple of new light fixtures well we still have to get up to this level and the easiest way to do that is to ramp up and we could there could be more steps going on that correction but in this scheme we decided to wait so you still have to step up into the building well the front door would still continue to be used but for ADA this doesn't make it ADA compliant it simply gets you up to the level where you can now step into the building so it's a ramp of convenience not not handicap a couple of 3D views just showing the new canopies in the back and the new configuration out front and we have a program that we use during the discussions where we were able to build a little obviously this is all modeled in order to be able to create the drawings and you can plug that model into a little program which is the gamers like to use and you can fly around inside the building so we have that ability to look just like it looks now but it's good for pointing out things like you can go in and see how the platform lift is really going to look inside this is a real view of the ramp you can see how the stair up to the balcony would work here's the platform lift inside and here's the coat space beyond so it really does kind of put you in the building here's a view up in the top of the stage in the new stairs where you would go up to the landing in the stage up into this space so here's the new door to the outside platform here's that depressed level we put over the boiler room so you can come straight through from this space and go out that door here's what the balcony would look like after we reconfigured the stairs and here's what this elevation right here would look like with the door depressed so you can see you would walk right out that door and then the new compliance stair over here in the corner downstairs this is now got a full 8 foot high head room in it it does still have the two columns this is the the lift lobby looking out into the community room and then this is that back quarter where we've now removed the stairs and you can walk directly outside and then just a couple of views of the theoretical commercial kitchen so people could sort of see what that looked like so that's all the eye candy on the project that's a lot of estimates there was one I think it's this version with the raised 20 inches version but was the version that had phase 1 and 2 done is that okay with this 2.4 million yeah so I think I've got it here I didn't bring it for general distribution yeah so this was before we tried to do any cost savings and this basically included improving the building function improving the western site access the building appearance all of the building longevity items were included not just the 117,000 but all of them obviously there's more work to design so those fees go up all the associated tag long fees and the general requirements all go up but that's phase 1 and 2 this is pretty much this is pretty much suit to nuts this is raising the building the extra 20 inches the only thing that's not included in this 2.4 million dollar figure here is the commercial kitchen itself that's at the bottom yeah that number was sort of roughly estimated at 118,000 118,000 so the new 2 narrowed it down to that only covers phase 1 correct that's right so how much is phase 2 it would be the difference one million another million another million phase 2 didn't have when I had only your presentation phase 2 were completing that first visual not doing the ideal version at the end that's right so if that's the case the 2.4 million is giving us the first visual of the building not the ideal at the end 1.2 gets you to the end of the first visual chances are what I distributed on paper when early for your presentation phase 1 and phase 2 yes I described so how much is phase 2 better it's the 2.4 it's this 2.4 minus the 1.2 in the first budget so in terms of the slideshow what I think is confusing because I lumped it up together in the slideshow phase 1 what's noted as phase 1 it's not the bottom there it's phase 1 in the slideshow those items are included in the first 1.2 budget anything that's in phase 2 is the extra 1.2 that's in this budget it's easier to think of this primary as 1.2 secondary as 1.2 2.2 you can think of primary as phase 1 and secondary as phase 2 and of course secondary has a bunch of options so percent of the total cost but I'm not sure if it's going to try and the question is and that requires a balance so my question is can we if we could get that kind of money because it suggests that maybe you look at the same model that Chandler took a number of years ago so when Chandler was in a similar situation that made him real well remember this one Chandler was and so the friends of Chandler entered into a lease agreement with the town and then the town bonded so the select board committed to take it to and so then the townspeople got to vote I think you're in the same situation here you guys are going to have to make your case and while I was sitting here I often say scenario 1 which is 1.2 to 1.4 million and it's basically a penny on the tax rate so I don't think it's we couldn't get that but I think that's the process that you've got to go through so whether or not to raise and you know the timeline that I think it's going to take for you to fundraise and then figure out whether or not you want to present this to the community as a bonding issue so and you know the town ordered this agreement with Chandler and I think that could be something similar to that but here provided we could come up with at least it's reasonable and everybody agrees to I don't think there's any interest in in the lease side of it I think there's the interest is in look if I understand some of this if I understand correctly the interest is in a group of people forming an entity to maintain the building and be responsible for factors of it and whatnot the reason that we transferred it and went through all that process to transfer ownership for the town was because there wasn't a group able to do that type of effort and so I think the bigger question is you know what are the first off what is the capacity for for them to raise money what are the grants that are out there what are the people willing to make donations what does that look like but before you can even go to the tax payers and say hey you want a bond for X number of dollars as matched towards all this fundraising that's happened or whatever you're going to have to sell the use is there a use for this building in the community that comes up to two and a half million dollars worth of public fund investment and what does that look like and my response to that is this committee which is an advisory committee but also interested in building community here has a lot of skills and they're predominantly in marketing so down the road I'm sure my people all the people here that are on the committee marketing is going to be done way better than it ever has been in the past it will bring in some income it will bring come on we're going to bring people from all over the place but I just think there's a lot of really creative ideas out there they've never been used for this building and I think we have this opportunity to tell you right now that many of us in this state right now are at premium because there's not enough of companies like me out there left to do the business because none of us are operating at our capacity that we're operating in 2019 so we're all struggling to provide spaces for people who want to gather but we can't do it because as an example my company's gone from 35 employees to 8 so consequently we've tracked our business by over 60% every relevant company in the state is in that same exact quote venues are now struggling to book as many dates as they can possibly I'm not saying that's going to continue but I can tell you right now it's good for 5 to 7 years because I see no way that our situation is going to recover as a matter of fact businesses like mine are going out of business every day throughout New England there's been 7 companies like mine that have gone out of business in the last 3 months because we don't have the capacity to do what we're doing businesses are becoming creamy so if you figure out how to park yourself and you can get to this number of 150 people and you can work out your parking situation and you can work out you're honestly that's tough I think you have a tremendous opportunity to rent this space it's not you you're using the wrong pronoun it's us it's going to be us including the town or we've lost our goal we can't do this alone so my magic wand wish at this particular point is that we have either some people either I'm not really sure how this would be put together on whose level but we need a municipal agent a person with municipal background we need a contractor with experience like a project manager we have the grant committee and the capital campaign committee we can put those four skills together we can go forward but we don't have we're not the committee we're not municipal people we keep running into dilemmas because we don't know what the municipality was we don't have the experience with contract general contract that general contractors have I'm learning a lot about bars and concrete and poles here but I don't want I don't want the donation part so I think the board needs to help us come up with those representatives together thank you we wish that the board could help us come up with those representatives not with it it was my idea we hope that you'll help plan it with plan this group would meet monthly and they would be planning every stage they go back to the capital campaign grants would go back and perform their stuff all come back together and say this is what we've got now, what's next you've come a long way since the first meeting I came to four or five years ago and I think you're at a great place and you've got a lot of information now and that's what I'm saying I think you're at that point where you've got grant writers and you've got people that can do that so now you've got to figure out how to blend that together can you sell this to the rest of the community I understand I'm just saying you're now going to sell this to the community because it's not us that's going to make a decision it's going to go to the taxpayers and they're the ones that are going to go for whatever whether or not it applies are you suggesting that the project manager that you referenced for an example come from the town coffers and be an employee of the town or would they be an employee of the project paid out of the money you raised either through bonding on our part or capital campaign grants on your part I hadn't thought about money because we're all volunteering so I didn't think about that piece so I don't want to pick word I want the town to pick word it's a good question I haven't thought about that I want somebody from the town to now to contribute at this point to that poor skill sets we're not talking about full time employee of the we're talking about somebody from the town that's connected to what's happening here but just at this stage it seems like this is just my god Tom Harris from the select board by the way that putting a project manager in place at this point is a little bit putting the card before the court that may be the wrong language that may be the wrong label for this person but somebody excuse me but if somebody like Trevor who's dealt with the fire station and all the ins and outs what has to go on to put a project like that together you know hopefully somebody that's retired and wants to volunteer and that's if you want to keep the building because we know this building does not have to be kept but it should be well there should be and there's the case they're not going to keep it at least same as this there is a community spaces and places that was conducted two years ago in the Triton area which time and time again referenced the importance of this building to the communities there's a lot of survey work that's been done by the community over the course of the last four years that clearly gathers that those desires and clear data can be shared so there is a great deal of demand there's no doubt about that I'll add one thing to that which is if this building is allowed to deteriorate if we don't do something with it I think it's there's going to be a community cost to this region this valley because it will be a blight it will be East Randolph has its own difficulties with with blight and poverty and so on and we need as a community that's something we don't need is this building to just crumble and of course the cost to tear it down is significant so I think we're looking for greater contact with the town Trini has been working with us and has been available to us there are so many questions that we have ongoing all the time and Pat you've been involved with us too just to be clear Trini's been involved when there's a problem and Betsy calls and says hey but we I believe I can fairly say we have this point of view of we are working on a town ascent it's not ours right and so I'm not clear about what you need to do the job we haven't been clear about how much money you needed here there were numbers floating around and there were a lot less than what this current needs so now I'm clear about where you're going to go and that's why I'm saying there's a possibility you as this group has to sell this to the rest of the town to bond it because I don't think you raised 1.2 million maybe you can and if you couldn't it's very difficult but I think it's going to be a challenge to convince the rest of the community just what you're telling us that you can take this to a bond vote and you probably couldn't win that bond vote what is the impact on the rest of the community Randolph-wide of that bond it's a penny a 750 would be about a penny right now if you did 750,000 and if you floated that over 20 years right? and so it's that's about where you're at I think that's an easy sell Chandler did that and it was the friends of Chandler that brought Chandler back to life because Chandler was still outdated and falling apart and so that's why I'm saying now the other part of this we haven't seen the business model we don't know how much revenue this is going to generate we don't know who the revenue is going to go to who's going to manage the building we don't have time to book events here oh yeah we know that so that's what I'm saying I think you need to look at this how does your organization fit that role and how are you guys going to take care of your space so that it's not a burden to the town staff to deal with what's going on in the building and that's where Chandler takes care of that and we don't get calls from Chandler unless they need a new roof or something like that which we work around and we get those things fixed so I think you're exactly the same situation this organization has to pick up that part of its responsibility and I don't think it's a problem I think you can sell that depending on the tax rates and the town's people no problems oh that's nice I think that's right because you know the 1.2 is just getting us started that's like spreading it out it's not like you can just do that first part and then never do the rest that other part needs to happen eventually too so you're really looking at two pens and they raise it what I'm saying if you're talking about raising if you're talking about raising the rest then you're talking about raising $1.75 million for this what would that be well it's looking like it's gonna be $2.5 million plus or minus to complete this project over some period of time we can't just do phase one you know that's just like the bare minimum just to get going and then the other part needs to happen because there are critical things in that other phase two that you can't just say we just don't need to do that that's gonna happen it might not be for a few years but it can't be ten years can't be never and so you are looking at raising a really large amount of money or asking the town a very large amount of money it seems to me that the next step is sort of getting a sense of how much money can you really raise realistically and given that number how much money do you think you'll need to bond and how likely is the whole town going to be to buying that I can tell you we bonded for $2 million for the fire station in Randolph Village and that was one of the levels and that was for the fire station uphill battle well just a couple things one we were on a furnace list for earmarks we were in the top can last year and we turned it down because we weren't sure we could get it to match and bond but they were ready to give us and and there's a lot of other times of matching it's always matching so we really need the town to cheer for and I would love I'm sort of hearing some support from the town but I'm not necessarily hearing the select board saying that they're behind it I think that's because from what I'm hearing from folks is that it's such a big amount of money that needs to go in front of the voters so we think it's a good idea personally if we're willing to do it is not really what matters what really matters is but I don't know that we have all the answers to say we're 100% behind it or not I haven't seen what the uses are and what the if you have a building that's going to be used on quite a regular basis by more than just a study that says yeah I might use it because I might have to fill something out so I might use that if it's there but will I use it is there a commitment there what's the use look like what's the cost of but you've got to have something to go to the voters and say look we've talked to people and this club needs a place for their meeting they'll do it once a month and are willing to be a board and this I know but a study is good but you need something a little more concrete like you're going to have to have something there that says this is the need that I'm meeting and these people are willing to commit to using that space for this purpose you know what we did is that but who's going to commit to something like that a lot of people and everybody uses it when we were doing the fire station one we got a list to commit if there was a conference room there for events and we worked with Claire Martin Center we worked with there was a whole bunch of them that we reached out to and said if we had this space in here would you use it too and it was a way of getting people involved to understand what the project was that was going on so they were talking positively about it and coming out and talking to other people about it and that's how you build your support when you go for the boat on a bond you know the fire station was a tough sell and you know that was a 2.3 not that much more if you're going to try to sell a $750 or a $1.5 million bond by the town on this building that's what you're going to come up against see this is just a leadership meeting and I knew that it's a good training but then you can work with if you're not saying something inside I'm not looking for a contract but I will have it I'm going to say again maybe I'll have a working party there it's a is there a snowmobile club they've come back to meeting here they used to be fundraisers held here the snowmobile club there was a a factory that's holding some of it what'd you say it's with bengos it's one a fake event weekly I mean that's all stuff that should be written on the list but I didn't know that we would need something like that for the I understand and is it a letter that they write how do you how do you want to see this I can mark the list you've got marketing people you said so your marketing people need to come up with these list abuses and who they are so that you can hear I have to present this to the community the talent is going to buy into this so we have quotes from groups that they're willing to stand behind we have a real need for this type of space for this activity in those polls in publications you really it's a public education process it's fun exactly what it would be for example I mean that's a good value for this place I think it's going to be hard I can say I've got a goal of one wedding a month for two years okay and it may not come out exactly like how about how many well and it depends on okay you've got all kinds of things yeah you've got paid shares you've got all that type of thing but then like you're saying it gave you into the different communities that we're always looking for a place after a few months or something and this many people you know the pastor from the East Valley East Randolph Baptist church was here tonight with his wife and he said that they used to use the building when it was available for their community gatherings so there's one example a lot of people used to use the building because I remember selling 25-round tables to these people however many years ago it was and they were busy every week we've heard the number 150 as the capacity tonight what's the capacity you know arts presentation event player mode now which is where I spent most of my career before retiring what's the capacity just of this room for an event let's say a concert on that stage or a small play or something like that totally upstairs downstairs stage but usually don't fire marshal set a capacity based on space like this room would have a capacity of 80 I'm just making that up but well they would set the total capacity because they can't keep people from going up and down the stairs they can't keep people from going up and down the stairs they can't keep people from going up and down the stairs and as I said before my code is actually building a mobile but when you get to the code number then we're going to use framework yeah you're on the right here I mean I'm just thinking space from an event from a concert or play presentation some artistic event is an idea of science for certain kinds of performances upstairs with Chandler maximum capacity and Chandler upstairs where they have small acoustic concerts and so on is 85 the main musical is 475 this is a midsize venue where I could see a regular concert series happening that falls in between those two and concert dance is square dance and we have already got a person who's donated sound don't help me acoustic for the building once we get it that's going to be his donation so you need a good solid sound system that you can just you know if I were crazy enough to get back into what I did for my career I would book this place an art I really would think so so I don't know anything about the sequence to putting something like this together for a bonfire we need do any of you know we need that type of guidance and skill on our committee for certain things maybe it's not a record maybe it's just a vote well I mean it's a monthly meeting to guide us you looked at what I can't think of comparable projects besides Chandler in this area but I am familiar with some other town-owned buildings one example would be the Bridgewater Historical Society which is in the old Bridgewater School and the town gifted that to the Historical Society helped fund the renovation and now they operated as a museum just last week I visited the Perkins Academy in Woodstock which is privately owned by a foundation called the Perkins Academy Foundation but it's the old original kind of high school for men and women before public schools existed in Woodstock they raised a boatload of money and that's now a state historic site which is another thing you might want to look into is getting historic site designation we've looked into that we can't, they changed the windows here and the windows there needs to be changes in the historical historical I talked to a man today he was telling me we need to check really not checking it again I'll get back to the community there was one great idea to look at all of this right now as a historic site because of all the early industry that was here and underneath it all there's still infrastructure in which this is the most obvious piece the problem with with you've hit the nail on the head though the problem with historic preservation is you bind your hands for a lot of the things you may want to do because they're really you will be in design control they're obsessive compulsive about every little thing you want to make this building more energy efficient but you can't change those windows you can get them out so that kind of thing the funding though is a lot looser the funding for from other organizations for historic renovations is a lot looser but I agree with you we don't want to get in that situation where we're working with the state directly to try to make this a historical place because you're right we'll be hamstrung forever we also find that your renovations if this was a historical building and you had to meet those requirements what would that number go to yeah or yeah I think there's a lot you couldn't do but also we're a a partner situation that needs to be a lot of space to yourself just thought about a lot of things so so I think you can do volunteer and then you can start funding right I'm quite sure you're getting my ball I think you're getting black and blue just to not understand I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I 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