 Our next speaker is Marion Kelt, who's a librarian and a learning technologist from Glasgow Caledonian University and she's developed something called UK Online Copyright Advisor and again this is going to be a participatory session so she's inviting you to road test this and give her some feedback. So welcome Marion. Hello everybody. One minute while you have the chance. I feel very, very inadequate. I don't even have any cats playing the piano pictures. I have though, got a picture I made earlier, which I was going to put up on the wall because I was picturing small intimate room where we all just sat about and had a nice chat and it's all gone a bit sideways. So here is my poster. It's awesome. But here's one I drew earlier, right? Let's pretend this is sticking up on the wall. Your arms are going to get tired. What are we going to do without Mark? I think I'll just carry him about with me in the future. I feel a wee bit like a pub rock band who suddenly got dumped in the O2 arena and they said, right, do your best with that hen. So I have actually, very first time I have ever talked to people without PowerPoint slides. I mean, we're talking live and without a safety net here. But I've written notes. There they are. Look, just to prove that I've written notes. So we were talking earlier about optimism, being a discipline and doing something social, pro-social, like that sounds good. So I've actually done a pro-social thing and I want you to try it out and in the spirit of feedback I want you to tell me what you think of it. Now, one of my many jobs, because I have lots, is to be the University Copyright Advisor. And let's face it, everybody hates copyright, including me. So this is a sort of thing about you don't run away quick enough when you get a job. So what I would like is for you people to try it out. Now, I've got librarians to give me feedback, but their feedback tends to be, oh, great. You've done something so we don't have to and it's all weird technical voodoo and, you know. So I thought, well, you guys probably know a lot more about the ins and outs of technology. So I have brought homework for you. Everybody else gives you stickers and sticky pads, but oh no, this horrible Scottish woman gives you homework. So I would like, so this is like school, take one and pass it off. What we're going to do, again, back to the live and without a safety net, is we are going to get the Copyright Advisor up online and you're all going to have a shot of it. Now, if you don't have your handy dandy device with you, it should work on your phone. And if it doesn't, I can lend you my machine. Just don't break it, because I've got to take it back. Now, you can see on your little sheets, there is the address, but you can just Google it and just do, GCU Copyright Advisor, and it should, there you go. I planned it better. Up it comes, right at the top there. You can just go in. Now this is completely open, because we are big on the open. And the idea is that we have built this thing and we are sharing it under Creative Commons for you to download and do what you will with it. So if you are not lucky enough to live in Scotland, never mind, you can download the files and you can edit them and mark down, which is quite easy to use, because I used it, so it must be easy. And you can change it to suit your own institution, your own country, your own version of Copyright Laws. Just do what you want with it. So, ah, it's a non-version. Oh, horrors. Actually, that happened. Okay, we will not panic, we will not panic. We'll just add in some more keywords, because we're librarians and that's what we do. Okay, I knew I should have run away and hid in the toilets. Right, have you all got your addresses? Because it's got the right address on the worksheet. Ah, right, if you could pass them on. Ah, here we go. There we go. This is the new and improved Copyright Advisor. If you Google Carp, not Crap, and put Copyright Advisor, it should come up and just link you straight in. Ah, the idea of this is, this is the new version, which we got a grant to upgrade. It's now on HTML5, so it should work on a variety of different devices. And we'd like you to just have a wee shot, so pick a type of resource. Why I thought you may, I know it's a long stretch, but you may be interested in it, is that a lot of learning technologists do get harassed with copyright questions from lecturers, because they think you guys know everything about everything. Like librarians, you know, you just know everything. So they're like, okay, I want to do this, and I want to put all these images in, and I want to put all these videos, and I just got them off the internet, I got the internet's magic, and I want to put it all into my resource, and you sort of say, and what about Copyright, and they all say, what's that? What are you talking about? So this has all of our knowledge about copyright, all put into it. So the other thing that we found with the old one, the content's pretty much the same, but the old one had a lot of problems navigating about, and if you went backwards, it broke, and it was very aggravating. So this one you can jump about. So say, I'll just give you a wee for instance. Say, I want to do a lovely PowerPoint for my lecture, and I want to share it on the VLE, or the LMS, I think some people call it. So we go in here, and it asks you questions. So it's like, right, did you create that lovely image? And you go, no, not me, wasn't he me? I didn't draw that copyright thing there. Where did you get it? Most people just randomly surf about and grab images. So say, I okay, got it off the internet, there we go. And then say, well, what way do you want to share it? Do you want open access? Do you want closed access? And then of course we have to explain what we mean by that, because all of our lecturers just basically don't know what it means. So we put in, I okay, it's on Blackboard or whatever, and we go. And there's your answer. So the other thing that we tried to do is not put too many words in. Now I don't know if I'm doing a disservice to all of our academics, because they hate too many words, and they especially hate too many words about copyright. So we cut it down, we put link to outside resources, because it can jump out, and we put in a glossary, because sometimes they don't know what all the words mean. Well, I'm cruel to them. So what you can do at this point is say, oh, well, actually, that's not quite what I'm planning to do. So you can start again from the beginning. So you think, no, it wasn't the image at all. It was a video of a cat playing the piano. So there it is. We can go in there. And then you get the same sort of framework, because this was really hard work was actually developing the framework so that we could then put it online. So it all kind of works the same way. And another thing I would like, if you have any bright ideas, is other things that we could add into this. We were thinking we might, if we're feeling very brave, do questionnaires, because one of the questions we get asked a lot from students and researchers is, well, I've got this question and I want to use it from a PhD. And you're like, where did you get it? And you go through. It's like Groundhog Day. Copyright is just one big horrible, awful Groundhog Day. Welcome to my life. So you can see, we just go back down the questions. But they vary the questions depending what resource you're talking about. So if you got it from Bob, if you want to stick it on the VLE, there's your answer. If you think, oh no, I clicked the wrong button because I was going so fast. You can just jump back up. Go in there and say, well actually I filmed it on the phone earlier. So it allows you to navigate through. So my plan was originally, at this point I would sit back and have a wee rest while you guys did all the work and tried it out and also you people at home in the wider world. Give me your feedback. Now you can feedback on Twitter. Do whatever you've got. I'd really like to hear what you think and how you would think of maybe using it. So that's mugpunter7 on Twitter. So you can tweet to me and let me know. The other thing I thought we could do was if any of you have any questions as we're going, just shout them out and I'll try my best to answer them. Oh, just go away and stop making us do this homework. I should say that the second version was created with a slick innovation grant. Thank you, Slick, for paying for, we have a lovely company who actually built the web platform for us. And they said, right, there's your framework, go to it, fill it in with the content. So I put the words in and rebuilt the framework for us. Thanks very much. I have a question. I'm just wondering if you've had people that have remixed it or adapted it, particularly outside the UK for other jurisdictions. Not yet. Not yet. I'm hoping, I thought this would be actually a very good opportunity from all over the place. You know, some of the laws are very similar. Some are different. We're actually planning to jump sectors. I've got a group of NHS librarians who are interested in doing one for the NHS. Because I had thought, oh, the exceptions are pretty much the same and they went, no, they're not. The licenses aren't the same. It's just, it just needs a wee tweak. So they're away working out some words and then we'll put together a version there. There's another possibility that people in the archives sector might use it. Questions aren't quite the same, but there are a lot of issues there around maybe exhibitions and that sort of thing. So we're sort of thinking we've got the Decision Tree software and we can use it just whatever words people want to plug into it and it's quite easy to move about the questions and whatever and put your own logo in, whatever. The other thing we were thinking of using it for is actually in the day-to-day work of the library and now we're using it for a Decision Tree for electronic resource problems because we're big on having folk wondering about the library pouncing an innocent library user and saying, have you got a problem? Whenever they have a problem, it's always e-journals aren't working or databases are down. So we thought, well, actually we could use that same methodology and get them to go through and so the person who's standing with the irate or distressed student can then go through and say, OK, well, it's not going to work because you've put in your NHS password or you've done this or whatever. So we thought that might be useful. We haven't done it yet but we're still at the thinking stage. This is very much just escaped out of its box at the moment so it's all shiny and new. So I'm hoping you guys will all have bright ideas for me. Quiet. One thing, thanks very much, Barry, and as we're both fellow copyright geeks and one of the things that us copyright geeks do love to talk about is all the complexity about copyright and what this does is clearly try to strip out that complexity by funneling people down to the core piece of advice they need. But I think it's about that balance, isn't it? Because I think sometimes what my question would be, have you had any feedback about whether using this approach loses some of that broader context because you're kind of delivering now a very specific piece of advice and actually what I find when I'm talking to people as a human being about copyright is picking up on those different contextual things about making decisions, particularly around risk. Yeah, people have kind of used it as a basic starting point because I thought, oh, this is going to save me half my work and they'll go away happy. But it didn't work like that. Quite often they've used it as a starting point and then they've come to me and said, oh, well, that's all very well, but what about X or Y or Z? Like the other week, I had one that was quite complicated and it had to do with the fundamental advice and the advisor was right, but then they had other issues around like wider licensing issues and what trumped what, did copyright law trump the license and that sort of thing. And you can't really put that... The difficult bit in creating that was crunching the knowledge down to fit the format and then there are bits in that that just says, well, it's too complicated, get in touch with us and here's the email address because you just have to in some cases. So we have had to do that. And the other thing is, I mean, what you could do is just not do it at all and just have a big screen that says it's complicated, let's talk, they are there, never mind. You know, and that would sum it up. Okay, yeah. Could there's been talk about having our kind of service desk system where people put in queries and that we could encode some of this information in there? Obviously from my perspective, I think, well, that does me out of a job. If you end up encoding all of that in there, but I think it's just try to get that... It's too really, you know, because it's legal and we're waiting for case law to catch up. Lady up there, maybe? Oh, man, the other bike shop as well. I'm wondering about accessibility and in particular for like the journal article or a PDF. And I don't see any information on the website. I have been thinking about that because one of my other hats is that I'm developing a workflow for the library to help provide accessible copies for visually impaired or otherwise users. And I was just... I'm still at the stage thinking, yeah, that would be quite a good one if we could figure it out. So what I'd do is I work very closely with our university disability team because it's not enough to say, well, we can do this and that. You know, there's things like, well, what format do you need and what type of PDF and all that sort of thing. So that could be son of copyright adviser coming over the hill, but yeah, that's a really good point and it's one I have been thinking about. I think one thing that could be very simple you could put on here is understanding the licensing of how you can manipulate document in terms of accessibility. That's true. I've been working with... I mean, a lot of times the user has the technology in their own hands. They just have to know that it's okay. Right. But also, like, if you use technology such as Abbey Fine Reader to prepare the PDF so that a screen reader could read it, it will identify blocks of text, but sometimes you reorder them or you have to type in text over it. So you are physically altering the document itself and so that's a very confusing thing for me of can I actually use this open education resource based on the license if I alter it for accessibility purposes? That's true. That actually would be interesting to follow that one up. I can see more white hairs sprouting just as we speak there. The thing with us is once it copyrights like that, once you start turning over the stones and looking under them, you find like the whole world are creepy crawlies of problems and one sort of runs off and brings another one. The man there with the beard. Hello. Thank you. Yeah, it mentions... when things have gone well and you get a green screen, it mentions this is fine for non-commercial educational use, I think. Yeah. I don't know what non-commercial education uses. Right, well... So, because to me like all of education is commercial. We have been informed by the powers that we, as in the folk with suits that pay my wages, they've said everything we do is non-commercial educational use and I went, but what about... Well, it's tricky, it's complicated because I started thinking about well, what about people in partner institutions where they're actually paying fees but in Scotland it's a kind of different based model. But they said, no, no, Mrs. don't go looking for trouble. We have defined it as, and this is what you are working to, it's non-commercial. So I went, right, that's fine, you just put that in an email and I'm good with that. So I'm just working to that definition. I would say ethically, that's probably a bit ropey, but I'm not even going to go there. Life's too short. Which is a rotten answer, sorry. I think everybody's... It's actually just more of a comment. I work with Maya at GCU and actually I think something has come through in the conference is where do people start, where do you find out about openness and how can we extend the community? I think for me, just being able to use this, yes, it doesn't give me all the answers, but it's a good starting point, it's a non-threatening starting point and I think it's the kind of thing that we need to, Kate was talking about being hidden in the open. Hello! You know, we need more things like this to allow people to start having the conversations so that they can go to Maya and her colleagues and say, well actually, it told me this, I have no idea what that means, can you help and yes you can. One of the things we thought, one of the other things I'm kind of tasked with thinking about is getting people to do educational resources and to share them and think about creative commons in ways that they can share and one of the barriers is copyright because people are like, well, I'm scared, I've got this stuff that I've been using for years but I don't know where I got the images and I'm damned if I can remember. So I spend a lot of time saying, well, let's have a look and see if we can find where they were and then like, okay, we can't find it, it no longer exists but maybe we can find something similar that will do the same job. So I spend a lot of time preparing lists of good copyright-free or openly licensed resources that people can use and then they would, well, I never knew about that and I never knew about that and they're away and they're happy but it's getting them over that we hump to start them and we're trying to build it in, when we get our new lecturers in, they have an induction program so we're trying to get them to talk about where they keep their resources, using Ed Share to share them, using Creative Commons, not to be scared to copyright, all of these things but the ones that have all been jumping about for 20 years, it's interesting. I have many interesting conversations with our more entrenched academics. I was just interested to see if you'd had, if you'd noticed an increase in conversations around Creative Commons or licensing based on the resource, because it sounds like it might be a route into broader conversations. Well, because it is still really new and I've not given it a real big push yet, I wouldn't say since that's been out there but since I've been engaging people and working with Sheila's department and it's no good sitting in the library you end up just talking to yourself so you have to get out there and you have to talk to organisation development and various other people and once they say, oh, that's the wee woman we talked to about licensing or copyright or whatever, then it starts to roll from there. It's like what I always used to call the hairdresser effect so if somebody finds a good hairdresser and they tell all their pals and then suddenly you can't get an appointment with your hairdresser because everybody's using them. Academics are no different from anybody else and they respect word of mouth more than anything. If an addict comes from on high and says, you will all do this. Oh, no, we bloody won't because they're Scots and that's how we are. But if you say, well, here's this thing and it'll save you loads of work. They go, oh well, okay, I'll get a shot. It's how you come at a thing but there's no quick and easy way to do it but we are getting analytics on it so every now and then I go in and I have a wee look. Okay, I think that's about the end of our time for such a married. Thank you so much. A round of applause for Marion, please.