 And then he returns back to the United States for grad school in international relations. And then, as he says, either a career in state or USAID in Central Asia. Or I'll work for six, well over six figures for an oil company, an American oil company in Kazakhstan. Right. So he's got some options. Don't you love the confidence of a 25-year-old boy who realizes, hey, my fallback is making over 150,000 working for an oil company. Just in case. That's the fallback. Yeah. Hold on. Good evening, welcome to Montpelier Civic Forum. And we are, as we always do, going to be discussing the issues and we're going to be discussing the candidates involved in town meeting day that's coming up in March. Now I am very fortunate that I have a candidate for the Parks Commission for the five-year term whose name I cannot pronounce. My name is Kasia Rancho. Let me try it. Kasia Rancho. That's right. Boy, that's a mouthful. And Kasia is currently sitting on the Parks Commission. I am. I applied for a vacancy this fall and so I've been on the Parks Commission since October. Now the Parks Commission is, in its own way, it's a separate entity. It's not like the Planning Commission and it's not like the Development Commission. These are elected physicians. Right. These are elected physicians and my understanding is that when Hubbard Park was created and gifted to the city decades ago that the stipulation was that there be a five-member elected body to oversee management of the parks. And since then, as Montpelier's parks have expanded to serve the broader community and more than just Hubbard Park, the Commission has continued to oversee the additional parks as well. Okay. Now what are the additional parks? Everyone knows Hubbard Park. What are the additional? Well, North Branch Park, of course. Okay. Now where is North Branch? North Branch Park is on the east side of the North Branch of the Winooski. And so a lot of people access that from, say, Cummings Street neighborhood or maybe you park by the recreation facilities where there's the swimming pool and the ball fields. And you can go across the bridge there to access North Branch Park. And it's essentially the land that's on the slope of the hill. How many acres, roughly, are sitting there? You know, I'm not exactly sure. I want to say it's around 100, but that might not be a great right. Half as big as Hubbard Park. I believe that's pretty close. And what happens with North Branch, it's connected in a little bit with the developed recreation facilities on the other side of the river as well as North Branch Nature Center. And then there's some connected private lands nearby as well. And so the actual, you know, the space that people use is, through those connected lands is larger than the acreage itself. What else do we have besides North Branch? There's the river access site that is on Elm Street, right by Birch Grove Bakery. And you're going to test me because I'm... I think we've got a couple of pocket parks, don't you? There are a couple of pocket parks. There's the Peace Park. And now, of course, there's a vision developing for Confluence Park downtown. Now, where is Confluence Park? Confluence Park is at the confluence of the North Branch of the Winooski and the main Winooski River. And... Which is why it's called Confluence Park. Which is why it's called Confluence Park. And unfortunately, it's been tucked away behind our businesses, behind our parking lots. And now, with the... This has been a community vision for over 20 years. Vermont River Conservancy has really taken the lead to see that this is fulfilled. The city council 20 years ago said, okay, yes, we would like to do this. And for various reasons, there hasn't been action on that. So now Vermont River Conservancy is really taking the lead on that and bringing multiple partners and players together to figure out the vision there. And with the construction of the new parking garage, that actually allows for a slightly larger park than there would otherwise be. And so it's an exciting time for parks as we look at how we build and expand on what we have. What is the preliminary thought about... I mean, that's a very small space. It's a small space. I think the idea, you know, Vermont River Conservancy talks about facing the river and owning the river. And right now, all our businesses, the backs are to the river. We park by the river. There's not actually a way to access the river. And so they can tell you more about that vision. But I think in a lot of ways, the idea is that we're able to step foot in the river and see the river downtown and have community events there. So maybe there might be an amphitheater type space. Maybe there are some benches, some picnic tables, space where you could have a small musical event and have a community gathering space. And the bike path passes through there as well. So making it a community space that the community can own and celebrate and connects us with the rivers that really are an amazing asset through town that right now are kind of pushed behind. And then building off that, you know, using that as a stepping stone to, for Montpelier as a whole, to really adopt the river as part of its identity rather than something that we shove to the back. There's another tiny, tiny little pocket park across from the cemetery, kind of, near the underpass to the freeway. That's right. And that is just a tiny park that no one knows exists. Yeah, and, you know, I think that we have this green print, which the Parks Commission has been working on for a long time, and some of the commissioners have really been hoping to bring to light. And that's kind of a vision for how our parks expand and meet community needs over time. And so that green print is looking at what are the opportunities for connecting places like that that are a little bit hard to access or kind of cut off from the rest of town? What are the neighborhoods that maybe don't have access to a park? It's wonderful if you live next to Hubbard Park and can go access it every day. But what if you live on the other side of the river? What are your parks? And so the green print is looking at how we can connect all of our parks so that they're more accessible and not necessarily pushed off to the side but are part of our community identity and a real asset to our daily lives for everybody in town. There's a tiny little parklet again, not the parklets that are in the street. There's a tiny little micro park at the corner of Elm and Court. Yes. Is there any talk of small little micro parks like that one? You know, I haven't heard specifically, but I think that the idea is behind this green print is kind of to provide connectivity and so that you might have quiet spaces like that where maybe it's a park bench. But more than that, how do you provide green space so that people can walk or bike or exercise or just sit quietly and enjoy space with their family and friends and use them as a place of connectivity, whether they're big or small, making sure that everybody has access? Now, in the city budget, we're picking up a physician that deals with Emerald Boer. Yes, so there's a tree. Could you explain that? So that is separate from our parks. That's a tree's position. So the tree. And then you're picking up a physician in the park starting in October. That's correct. Could you explain both of those? Yeah, so I'm less familiar with the tree's position because it's not our management but Emerald Ash Boer is a regional problem that is only going to expand in the future as it populates new parts of town and it's going to be a little unpredictable. It's a natural threat to our trees. And my understanding is that the tree's position is primarily concerned with addressing our town trees and our city trees that line our streets and how we mitigate that problem. But the tree's commission can tell you more about that position. See, now I'm going to put you out of your conference zone possibly but I know this discussion's come before your board. What percentage of the North Branch or Hubbard are susceptible to this? Well, anywhere there are ash trees. Let me rephrase it. What percentage of North Branch and Hubbard are ash trees? I don't have an answer to that. There is a forester that the parks are working with right now who's putting together a study for potentially a couple areas of the park where they are looking at inventorying the trees of what percentage is hemlock or beech or birch and what percentage is ash and kind of taking a look at that in a couple areas of the parks. But I'm not exactly sure what the answer to that question is. When you do that inventory, I know that the Parks Commission has been working on signage. Yes. And not simply big signage but small signage. Will that small signage identify what kind of trees are in there? You know, there's a discussion. There is a nature trail established in Hubbard Park. Where is that nature trail? I'm not entirely sure exactly its location in the park and that's one of the problems is it's been kind of lesser known and signage hasn't been elevated. Which might be good for that trail, I'm sorry. But I know that park staff I was just talking to you a couple weeks ago is they're interested in improving the signage along the nature trail in that area. And, you know, I don't think that something like signing every tree in all our parks would really make sense, but drawing, highlighting it in certain areas would make sense. I know I've seen on the path, you know, up from the Capitol building, up to the tower, you can, there are signs that say, hey, look up, what are, this is an ash tree. Keep an eye out, here's what emerald ash borer is doing and how it will affect our forests. And so that kind of education interwoven with our parks I think is really important for the community. When Carolyn Grincey was running last time I had her on, one of her goals was to set up a small little nature center up there. I haven't heard where that stands. I know Carolyn is very excited about the green prints in this vision for how we connect our parks and expand our parks to a better community. But she had talked about the educational, the open education in the park. Yeah, I, those conversations haven't been part of the commission's conversations lately, as far as I know. In terms of signage, what do you see as the need for signage in the park, besides how to get to the park from Elm Street and the like? Yeah, well, you know, their signage has a couple different avenues. There are directional signs. They did a beautiful job with the signs in Hubbard Park that are carved and really fit well with the place. And so I thought that project worked out really beautifully. And those are directional. This is where you are. This is what this trail is. They tell you it's 0.2 miles to connect with. Which is great. Yeah, it's fantastic. And especially with so many interwoven trails there. And then there's also signage that is behavioral signage. This is the K-9 code of conduct, of course. And so there, and as we have multiple uses in the parks, you know, they recently added some more developed mountain bike trails in North Branch Park. It's more and more important that there is signage so that multiple users know how, what to expect from one another and how to behave with one another. So for example, this winter, when the Parks Commission agreed to allow winter fat tire biking in North Branch Park, one of the. What is winter fat tire biking? So it's over. Let's try that again. What is winter fat tire biking? It's over snow biking. And they go very slow from what I gather. Yeah, so I have not been on a fat tire bike myself. But it happens over snow. You can imagine it's, depending on snow conditions, if the snow is soft, it's a bit like biking in the sand at the beach. It's challenging. The tires have a much wider tread than a mountain bike. And they go uphill and they cruise downhill. And it's a relatively new sport. And they're looking for more and more terrain. And they're not having problems with the snowshoers. You know, we haven't heard any incidents so far this year since this new experiment. I did a little bit of research myself before, as this discussion was going on, to just see what's happening in other communities. And I think signage and how people behave is really important, that the different users respect one another. The bikes have brakes on them. And they do go relatively slow. And but if they're incidents, we do have a form to report incidents online. And that's really important that we hear from community members to say, hey, I had a really positive experience or I had a really horrible experience. And this is why. But I think we're not necessarily the on the ground mediators all the time. And so I think it's really best if people are responsible for themselves and that bikes yield to pedestrians and people using the trails. And there are signs up that say bikes yield to everybody else. And I think that following those, that is really important to make sure everybody gets along out there and has a good time. Now, in 2018, we had a new word enter our vocabulary. Parkapalooza? Parkapalooza. Would you explain what parkapalooza is? Parkapalooza? It's not a was. It's a continuing project. So it's still it is. Yeah. So parkapalooza is there are multiple events in the parks every year. Parkapalooza is the big summer event that we put on. There's multiple events. Exactly. So it's a series. It's taken a few different forms. I believe it's in its third year or so now. And they've tried it on different days and scenarios and things like that. I believe the idea this year is that it happened one Saturday a month for June, July, August, and September, I believe. But don't quote me on that. And they're starting the planning now. The idea is to have family-friendly events in the park where people can come in, enjoy the park in a new way, make it as a community gathering point and a hub for people to enjoy Montpelier and bring in people out of town who want to stay in town. Does that include camping in the park? It does. New this year, they have experimented with this a little bit in the past. But I believe the idea this year is to allow camping in Hubbard Park each of the Saturdays that they have park Palooza this summer. And so it's a really great experience. It's a great chance for people who live in town to experience the park in a new way and set up a tent. Even if you live in town and you don't need to camp out, bring a tent, bring your sleeping bag, camp out overnight, see what it's like to hear owls at night or listen to the forest and experience the park under moonlight and starlight. And for people from out of town, it's a really unique way to experience our state capital. How many state capitals can you go and spend your day in downtown enjoying the businesses, walk into the woods, enjoy a music concert, roll out your sleeping bag and camp just behind the capital, essentially? When we talk about behind the capital, I believe that 2019 will finally bring the wayfaring sign that will point to the park from the state capital. I hope so. I haven't heard the timeline on that, but that sounds fantastic. But I think that we currently have off of Court Street, a green sign that points up into the park to Court Street. There have been long discussions on whether there should be one on Elm Street in both directions to point into the meadows and then point up into the park to make it easier for people from out of town to actually realize where the park is. Right. And our parks are an incredible asset, especially Hubbard Park. I know people talk about all the time. And I think for people visiting, being able to access the parks like that is a really unique experience for the Montpelier experience of spending time in town and immediately out of town, being able to have that kind of wild, natural experience. I think it's really unique. See now, we're in the winter right now. This is being taped, as you know, this is being taped in February. The meadow is our snow hill. That's right. It's our snowboard, not snowboard, but it's our sled hill. Must be a great year for sledding for the kiddos. It's fantastic. There are a lot of kids out there. My daughter is two, so she's not quite ready for the big hill yet. She's taken things slow and trying out the little hills around town. So I haven't tried it out myself yet. But when I've walked by, there are certainly plenty of kiddos out there. Which is great. Yes. Now during the non-snow season, there's a stage. So that's where Park Palooza is held, is just at the top of that sledding hill there, where there's a brand new stage that's been built to host Park Palooza. But my understanding is that the park also hosts community gatherings and community organizations or family events. So there are multiple shelters. And I believe you could probably arrange to use the stage as well as park infrastructure. Now if you want to use park infrastructure, if you want to rent one of the shelters, how do you do that? There are forms online, I believe. And the Office of Community Services helps to support the parks to organize the rental system. And the rentals are very modest. Yes, it's a very low fee for the amazing amenities that we have in the parks. What's coming in new? Besides, I didn't get to the position. We have a new position coming in October, which will be new. What is that person going to be doing? So right now, the park staff has been Jeff Bearer, who's been director of the parks for 35 years, I believe. And he's indicated that he's interested in retiring soon. Which opens up a house in the park. And Alec has been really fantastic and has been working by Jeff's side for years. And so he's been with the parks for a long time. But this shuffling, both Jeff and Alec, a portion of their time is spent on trees. And so right now, it's been less than two full-time staff people who have been managing Montpeliers parks. And it's a big job, especially as our trails are expanding and adding new trails in North Branch, adding in potentially new parks like Confluence down the road, the work to maintain trails and keep them open, manage the public, build and put up signs, keep all the equipment operating, the snowmobiles and the groomers and the trucks and coordinate volunteers. We have a lot of volunteer groups who are out every year. And so all that takes time. And your VISTA people. And the VISTA people, yeah. And all that takes time to recruit volunteers, line them up, manage them. And you get the benefits of the volunteer support for the parks. But somebody has to do that. And so now, as of a few weeks ago, the city council has approved the budget that is up for vote. And you can see Ann Watson discussing that budget on ORCA, on what's on your city forum. And in that budget is a new parks position. And that would allow for the first time additional support. So there would be more than two staff people able to do all this work. It's really grown over the years. Montpelier has invested in its parks. And I think Montpelier residents are really proud of our parks. And it's time that we invest in our park staff. And so the city council has decided that's the way to go. And so that's proposed in the budget. What are friends of the park? You know, as far as I know, it was a non-profit organization that has been, you know, the fund rate, it's been active and inactive over the years. As with a lot of volunteer-run organizations, it ebbs and flows. My understanding is that they haven't been very active recently. But I might be wrong about that. But I believe it's a support group that is designed to help support the parks. But I haven't interacted with anybody from friends of the parks. Everyone who runs for park commission, I talk to on these shows. And I always ask the same question, as I mentioned with Carolyn. What's your vision? If you had one project you wanted to bring before that commission that you haven't brought already, that's fairly visionary and long-term, from your own personal experience, what you were involved in conservation for a long time? Yeah, that's right. I work in conservation. I've worked for the Forest Service on the ground. I have built trails, been involved with trail crews. And currently, I actually work remotely for Montana Wilderness Association. That's pretty remote. And I've been with them in one form or another for almost 10 years now. And so conservation is my passion. And I've seen how conservation and parks can transform communities. And to me, I'm really excited. This actually just came up last night at our last Parks Commission meeting. I'm really excited about bringing community members together to chart that vision together and across multiple user groups and multiple interests to think about what our parks could be. Now, you're thinking beyond Hubbard. Exactly. And I think sometimes, you know, including Hubbard, of course. Including Hubbard. At the time that I've been on the commission, which is five or so months now, mountain bike interests will come and share a vision for adding more trails or people who want their dogs on leash come, people who want dogs off leash come. And there are these various requests from the community. And I think when you're looking at a single parcel of ground and one park at a time, it's hard to find room for everybody and figure out where all those pieces intersect. But I think if we can zoom out and look at Montpelier as a whole and look at our entire city limits, and not just the parks that exist now, but parks that could exist, maybe we could have a park on the other side of the river that is closer to other neighborhoods and provides day-to-day access for families who live on that side of the river. What could that look like? And so I'm interested in a concept that we just started to float around at our meeting last night. We're developing what this would look like, but potentially, you know, just bringing voices together to find common ground and develop a shared vision for our parks. Now you guys don't control Dog River, do you? No. Okay. And you don't control that recreation field that has the baseball park on it. That's correct. But those are areas of recreation. Yes. So those are the recreation committee manages those more developed areas. So, you know, the skate park and the ball fields and the, you know, tennis courts and things like that are under a different commission. Do you control that path beyond Montpelier High School that goes to the, I suppose, to the Peace Park? You know, I am not entirely sure. It has not been discussed recently at our Parks Commission meeting, so I'm not entirely sure. I was just curious how far your reach is. Yeah. You know, if you go to the park's website, there's a full listing of all the parks there, and it just hasn't been a priority under discussion recently, so I'm not sure. I know there's waxes and wanes. Has anyone discussed Saban's pasture as a park? You know, that comes up as a community idea that's obviously private land, and the landowner, you know, has their own ideas of the future of that land, but it's a beloved community space. People use it and enjoy it, and the community has been really privileged to, you know, be allowed to enjoy that property for so long. So, you know, I think if there were an opportunity, it would be, you know, people talk about it as a possible addition to our park system, but of course that requires, you know, a landowner and agreement and funds and everything else. That's another one. Right, and these are the types of things that in the green print, which has been established. I should say way west on Terra Street. You mentioned Caroline, and she's been a really strong voice for the green print, and as all the parks commissioners, I would say, but the green print is the rough outlines of a vision of where there could be additional parks without saying this particular parcel of land that's owned by this landowner, which has a lot of complications, saying, hey, when the opportunity arises, when, you know, there's land available, when we have the funds for it, how, you know, this is a type of space that we could grow into so that every, no matter where you live in town, it's easy access and just a short walk to access a local park. Now, it seems to me that when we're talking about the green print, how does the public see the green print? Where is the green print? Well, that's a good question, and that's one of the things that we're trying to surface is whether, you know, there have been discussions before my time of whether that belongs in zoning or whether that belongs in city planning, and so we're having discussions to figure out where that lives and how people can be aware of that. But it's a park commission priority. And it's a park commission priority, but, you know, and part of that is having these, you know, community discussions to make people aware that it exists and figuring out how to bring that forward into our planning efforts. So we're talking long term? Yes. There is an elephant in the room in this discussion. Actually, it's not an elephant, it's a canine. Canine's in the park. They come up all the time. That's why it's the canine that's sitting in the room. Would you discuss canines in the park? Yeah. And what the status is, your understanding of that, of how to allow for differing communities with differing priorities to coexist. You know, I should say right off the bat that I am a canine owner. I have a black lab and... Along with half the town. Yeah, along with half the town. And I use the park and I'm in Hubbard with her off leash. But I also feel like dog owners have responsibility as dog owners. It's a privilege to bring your dog in the park off leash. And that's something that all dog owners need to take responsibility for. And so, you know, if it's our... Responsibility in what sense? Responsibility to clean up after the dog? Yeah, so being aware, I always carry bags with me to pick up my dog's poop. And being aware of where your dog is at all times. So it's really easy. If you're walking a trail, your dog goes to do its thing someplace. Maybe you don't notice. That's not an option. You need to be responsible to pick that up. Isn't that one of the canine code of conduct? Is that dog has to be under voice command? Yes, that's right. But I think even if they're under voice command, you know, they may be going off trail to do their thing or whatnot. So, and I think it's also, you know, we all love our dogs. I love my dog. I don't necessarily love everyone else's dog. And so I think we need to be aware that not everyone loves our dog. Even if they have another dog, they don't necessarily want to be interacting with our dog. And so when we come across other people in the park, bringing our dogs close, keeping them under control, making sure that they're not getting in the way of other people, and not causing a hazard to other people, and that everybody has a really positive experience in the park. It's not a park for dogs, it's not a park for dog owners, it's a park for everybody. Is there a possibility of dog trails that are clearly marked so that if people have issues with dogs that they won't encounter, except on the core trail, you know, the big trails, but on smaller trails, there will only be dogs on lead? Yeah. You know, these are the kinds of solutions that I think if we brought people together from across the community, and not just dog owners, but people who don't own dogs, people who bike, people who ski, people who are joggers, and runners, and walkers, and everybody together, these are the kind of solutions that we could come up with together. But I've seen, you know, other communities address it all different ways, you know? And you know, maybe there's a possibility where, you know, in our parking areas at least that dogs need to be on leash. And you know, often times I see at trail heads that dogs are excited, they're exuberant, and that's where a lot of incidents occur. As people are getting their kid and their stuff and everything else out of their car, they're not necessarily paying attention to their dog and being responsible dog owners. So, you know, asking dogs to be on leash in a parking area might be part of a solution. Maybe having a, you know, specific dog areas. And I don't think... Would that be a fenced in area? I have no, I mean, these are ideas that have come up from the community, and I don't think it's my place to sit and say, hey, this is what's best for this town. But I would like to see people come together and discuss and understand each other, and, you know, and understand the situation. And, you know, Jeff Baer, with who's the Parks Director now, is just, I think, really thoughtfully sharing some ideas just last night at our Parks Commission meeting about, you know, education. And maybe there are opportunities for dog owners to be better ambassadors in the park. And, you know, in a responsible, positive way, you know, as an example, you know, if I see somebody else carrying a bag of dog poop, just saying, hey, thank you so much for picking up your dog's poop, rather than the negative of, like, hey, you didn't do this, and I'm calling you out, which, you know, just, it makes people defensive. And so maybe there are ways that we can all be ambassadors and help educate one another about how to be, you know, responsible and positive users of the park, no matter what you're doing there. So you believe, this probably will never be solved totally, but you believe that there are steps that could be taken that would improve the situation and soothe nerves. Yeah, and to me, I mean, I think the first part of any solving any problem is bringing people together and having a conversation. And, you know, and without that, I think that it's just easy to be defensive and point fingers or get riled up. And I think everybody has a place in our parks and everybody deserves to have a great time there and feel safe. So how can we do that? And I think there are solutions. The trailhead behind the state capitol and smoking, dope and drinking and all of that stuff that you just don't want to see in a park. Yeah. How is that being dealt with? You know, I know that it's something that everybody is aware of. And I'm sure our police force is aware of it and park staff, but, you know, every community is going to have those dark corners and in our community, it's, you know, park space. So I joined the commission, you know, in October, November time. And so, you know, I think it's not as much of an issue as it is in the summer. So it hasn't really come up yet. So I don't know the exact solutions or, you know, how that gets dealt with. But I've seen it. I know it's an issue. Do we anticipate that the entrance coming in from Elm Street through Winter Street, you know, through the Meadows, will the Mudge season open that by June this year? I don't know. That entrance is going to be real tricky for a while this year. Yeah. I mean, everybody does the best they can, right? Well, I thank you so very much. I'm just saying, of course, that you are not opposed for your five-year term. I thank you for coming in and discussing this with us. Everyone is interested in our parks. Yeah. Thank you. And, you know, I would say to anybody listening, if anybody has thoughts or feedbacks or questions, I'm open and glad to hear from the community and open to these conversations. So let's keep it going. Let me remind everyone to get out and vote on Town Meeting Day, because it is important. And if there are no contested races, it is important that you become civically engaged and watch the other episodes that we have of Montpellier City Forum. They're all good. And thank you very much for watching.