 Welcome to what the F is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean, CodePink's weekly YouTube program of hot news out of the region. In partnership with Friends of Latin America, Massachusetts Peace Action, and Task Force on the Americas, we broadcast every Wednesday at 4.30 p.m. Pacific, 7.30 p.m. Eastern on CodePink YouTube Live. Today we have the great honor of being in conversation with Senor Ernesto Teefer. He is the president of Nicaragua's Electrical Energy Company, and Nicaragua is the leader in the hemisphere of the Americas on renewable energy, has been for almost a decade now. And so we're very excited to talk about the continuation of this program and further development of renewable energy in Nicaragua. And also talking, we can talk this afternoon about Nicaragua's partnership with the Chinese Belt and Road Initiative to help develop infrastructure in their country as well. So it's with great pleasure that I welcome Ernesto Teefer to our program today. Thank you very much. It's a great pleasure for us to be here and to tell you all about what we, our country and our government have been able to do in the last 15 years regarding the investment in renewable and natural energy sources, which has greatly contributed to the fight against climate change as one of the many variables involved. I think that never in the history of Nicaragua have we seen something similar to what we have achieved in the last 15 years, in the last three government terms of Commander Daniel Ortega and Rosario Murillo. It is worth highlighting that in 2007, when Commander Daniel Ortega, when the Sandinista front came back to political power in Nicaragua, the situation that we found ourselves in was drastic. 12 hours of electricity rationing every day. The country was divided into sections and each section in the country received electricity every two hours. And that's what we did to be able to provide every department in the country with electricity. And let me tell you, the country that we had back then was not the country that we have now. It was just the Pacific Coast and the center of Nicaragua. The Caribbean Coast was not integrated with the Pacific Coast and the central part of Nicaragua. That's the history of Nicaragua. Apart from that, it was sad that only 52% of our population had electricity. And something else that saddened us was that 80% or between 77% and 80% of the energy that was produced in Nicaragua was produced on the basis of fossil fuels. There was only 23% of renewable resources. And at that time, the renewable resources were hydroelectrical power and geothermal power as energy producing sources. According to the philosophy then, geothermal power was used as the basis and the hydroelectrical power was used to fulfill demand fluctuations that happen every day in every electrical grid around the world. But the main concern was how to solve the situation. And it was right there and then that Commander Daniel Ortega talked to Commander Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. And it so happened that some plants that were destined to Cuba as a gesture of solidarity, brotherhood and awareness, Cuba gave these plants to Nicaragua. And that's when we started to install the first megawatts to deal with the energy rationing that the country was undergoing back then. And that's how throughout the following two years, the country got going because more than 250 megawatts were installed as power capacity. And that fulfilled at that time the demand that the country may have. So one problem was solved, but we were facing another issue. And Commander Ortega called all of us who were involved in this area and said, I want to provide every single Nicaraguan person with electricity. And I wanted to have energy, one type of energy from natural resources because our country is full of nature. And due to its geology, it has tremendous resources, enough geothermal resources to supply Central American part of Mexico with energy. And we have hydroelectrical power sources and rivers with tremendous potential. And also wind power, solar power, and those are renewable energy sources which do not pollute. They do not pollute the environment. They do not contribute to the greenhouse gases emissions that will have a negative impact on climate and that contributed to global warming. So that's how we started. And to not bore you with the whole story step by step, I can tell you that in the last 15 years of Nicaragua's history, we have brought into the system more than 780 megawatts of energy. And that was wind energy, geothermal energy, hydroelectrical power, and solar power. So in the year 2007, we had 709 megawatts as our power capacity installed in the country. Nowadays, in the year 2022, we have 1619 megawatts of installed power capacity. So we have increased that power capacity in the last few years by 783 megawatts, more or less. But we were forced to use conventional thermal power in part due to the lack of energy that we faced at the beginning. But as of then, we have not brought into the country any other thermal power station. So nowadays, when compared to what we have in 2007, which was 25%, 27% regarding natural resources, nowadays we have turned the energy matrix around because in Nicaragua, we currently have only 33% of our energy, which is based on fossil fuels, and 67% and 70%, which is based on renewable energy. And that has been a great achievement for our country. And we also have a 99% of our population that are getting electricity, including the Caribbean coast, which for the first time in the history of the country is integrated fully with modern roads that go from the Caribbean to the Pacific with electricity that covers both the northern part that goes towards Bilbi, Guajpan, Limo, Rio Coco, that whole area, and the south of the country where we find blue fields and also African palm projects. That and everything that exists in our country is an unprecedented achievement. Electrical coverage, energy production with alternative energy sources, and the integration of the country under a single, very, very impressive. I want to share with you, Senor Tifa and the audience as well, that I have been to your country six times, seven times now. January was there for President Ortega's inauguration. A great honor to have been there with you and your people on that day. But I did tour your country, I think it was August of 2014. And the theme of that trip was green energy and renewables. And that was August of 2014. And I think at that time, the renewables in Nicaragua were 52% still a very large percentage, particularly compared to other countries in the hemisphere. And to have seen the growth continue, because for me, it was such an exciting theme to go steady in 2014. And to see the success of it and to see it grow even larger is just such a wonderful example of what is possible for all of us. I do want to ask you specifically about hydroelectric power. Because for so many in our audience, this is a big question throughout Central America is the privatization of rivers, natural resources to achieve the dams needed to create hydroelectric power. And of course, we all know yesterday was the sixth anniversary of Bertha Casares. I say yesterday, Wednesday, March 2nd, was the sixth anniversary of Bertha Casares's assassination. And she in fact was an indigenous person trying to stop the damning of the river in her community. And so maybe can we talk about some of the controversies associated with hydroelectric power, and whether those exist in Nicaragua or not, and then the benefits of wind and solar. Well, well, I'm going to tell you a story so that you can see how our government focuses or addresses hydroelectric power project. We have a river in Nicaragua, the Rio Grande de Matagalpa that goes through the central part of the country and flows into the Caribbean. This is the basin that has the greatest potential hydroelectric potential in Nicaragua. This was started more than 40 years ago and this has been updated. We have an update on this project since two years ago. And back then, when this project started to be conceived, there is one called Copalar. There is a project that had two stages, the Copalar Alto and the Copalar Bajo. There was a town nearby called Paiwas, Bocana de Paiwas. And at that time, there were 50 years ago, more or less, there were maybe 500 inhabitants. And the project was feasible. And when we told the president, Commander Otega, that we want to carry out the project, the Copalar project, he asked, where is that? Well, near Paiwas. Nowadays, Paiwas has more than 15,000 inhabitants. But the commander said, no, we are not going to carry out that project. We are not going to move 15,000 people away from their homes to carry out that project. So hydroelectrical projects that we want to carry out are projects that prioritize the social issues. And once the project is fully approved and accepted by the community after analyzing the pros and the cons, then we proceed to carry out the project. This kind of project, even though we wanted to carry out some of them with our private funds in a private way, what's happened, Terry, is that Nicaragua needs the funds to carry out such a big project. And those funds have conditions. Financial institutions, the IDB, the World Bank say, well, the private company needs to develop. And we think that that's okay. Yes, the private company has to play a part. But to think that we can have a universal recipe, for instance, saying that, oh, in Chile, energy privatization has worked wonders. And in Argentina, in Brazil as well, that doesn't mean that in Nicaragua, it will succeed as well, because we have seen the negative consequences of privatization of a part of a sector of the energy industry sector in Nicaragua. It's in the case of Penosa, that took away a lot of money from us. So that's the reality. I cannot stay quiet. But we have to develop the energy sector. Great. How do we do that? So our strategy is first to resort to the state because we are interested in the cost of the kilowatt per hour that the population is going to incur in. And we want the population to get energy at a low price. And that's something our government insists on. But if they tell us, okay, the private company needs to intervene. We, as a last resort, can say we can do something together to make it public and private. And that's what we are trying to develop and carry out nowadays. Because if the World Bank or the IDV told Nicaragua or Commander Otega, Rosario Murillo, here you have the funds for Nicaragua to carry out those projects. Nicaragua has its own projects. And they are state owned. And we have no profits. And everything is a service. We are providing the population with the rights that they are entitled to. That would be ideal. But if we cannot do it that way, we need to find a way to do it. And we thought about having public, private initiatives. And that is something that we've been trying to implement and carry out. But in reality, our country, which solely wants to live calmly and peacefully, hasn't been able to develop what we would have liked to develop because there are problems. It's not worth mentioning them now here. But we haven't been able to carry out our projects because we are not left alone. We cannot live in peace. We just want to develop our country. That's our main concern. Hydroelectrical power has its pros and has its cons. We need it to control daily demand, daily energy demand in the country. You know that at 2 a.m. or 3 a.m., the demand is minimum. Then at 7 a.m., 6, 7 a.m., it starts to go up. So those variations are covered by the hydroelectrical power because we can turn on and turn off the water supply. And that allows us to fulfill that demand. That's why I mentioned the philosophy that we were trying to live by in our country and in other countries in Latin America. That we don't have another kind of energy that can fulfill those demand variations throughout the day yet. But once again, the social issue comes first. If we are able to solve that, can I ask you a question? You made the comment that, and I think a lot of our audience will understand this, clearly understands it. I think the term we use is natural resource sovereignty. Perhaps you do as well. But you said one of the things in one of the hurdles in developing energy for Nicaragua is that your country cannot live in peace. And most of us understand interventionism in many, many different forms. And are you talking about, when you say that, are you talking about the desire for transnational corporations to control your energy growth as they do in Colombia, as they do in Honduras and many other countries throughout the hemisphere? So I'm going to give you an example. Four years ago, we had been talking with the World Bank for two years to carry out a geothermal project here in a nearby volcano close to Leon, which is a San Cristobal volcano. And we had intense meetings with the World Bank during two years. And we were thinking about having a private public partnership because we were developing this project with a private company. We were barely starting. Everything was practically ready. And then in 2018 in Nicaragua, there was a coup d'etat attempt to commander Ortega and Rosario Morillo's government. That's what happened. There is no other way to call that. And as a result of that destabilization, well, we've been waiting for four years for that that has been had been already in discussion for three years to get back on track. But now there's nothing. So what about that? How do we carry the project out if we have no funds, if they don't want to provide us with the funds? The World Bank has gone missing. It's been MIA for four years. So what's going to happen with the other bank? Financial institutions are instruments. We know that they are instruments for a country to develop or not, depending on several factors that are not worth considering right now. But Nicaragua is definitely being affected by those policies. That's why the commander has already said that we only want to be left alone. We want to live in peace. We want to develop our country with our own alternative sources. And we don't want to be pressed from different angles and sites. We're in the 21st century. People should think differently. But it's been such a problem. It's been very difficult. I think that to separate, we cannot separate political events from the realities in our country. Because in the end, the IMF, the World Bank, those are all instruments, devices that put pressure to the point that the country cannot pay. And so they say, now you will do as I say. That is a mechanism that has taken place throughout history. And that continues. It doesn't change. Because we would like to have our alternative sources to benefit Central America, all our brothers in Central America, and also to benefit ourselves because the economy in our country is like, I give something to you and you give something to me. That is a reality. And despite all the problems on the hurdles that we faced, we have achieved wonderful things. And let me tell you something. During the ATIS, in the midst of a very bloody and unfair war that was started by the government in the U.S., we carried out or we started two geothermal projects in the Monotombo Volcano. And someone asked me back then, because I was in leading those two projects. And they asked me, how difficult was it? An Italian man asked me that while I was talking to him once. And I told him, look, I think that the effort that it meant for the U.S. to get to the Moon was the same effort that it took for us to carry out those two projects during that war. Of course, nowadays, we're not talking about similar words. The problems are different. The pressures are different. But they don't want the country to develop as it could. We demand respect. We demand to be left alone. We demand freedom. And in terms of dignity, our heroes and martyrs have taught us that. And that's what we are mostly characterized by. And that's okay. But we have to develop the country. And that's Commander Ortegas and Rosario Murillo's main concern. And we're working on that. And I would add, for the audience to say, if you're doing it quite successfully, despite all the hurdles that have been thrown against you from the United States and other factors in the international community, including international financial institutions, which now Nicaragua is significantly blocked from with the enforcement with the enactment of the Renus Air Act Wednesday, when was that, the last Wednesday of October. So right before the presidential elections in November, President Biden signed that into law. And for our audience, we did a whole episode on that. And it's extraordinarily harsh. It's an extraordinarily harsh sanctions regime against Nicaragua. And so, and also, Senor FIFA, I should tell you, you may already know this, we did a wonderful episode of our program with Senor Ivana Costa about Nicaragua's plan to alleviate poverty and develop human potential, which did include some discussion of the development of the energy grid. And for our audience, that's on our YouTube channel as well. It's extraordinary, the accomplishments. And he himself has been sanctioned. And I would assume to prevent him from securing international finance for all your infrastructure projects. So this leads me to ask you, since we did formally hear this the night of President Ortega's inauguration, January 10, he did formally tell the audience and the world that Nicaragua has signed a memorandum of understanding with China to participate in China's Belt and Road Initiative. And how does that now affect the development of the electrical grid, renewable energy? And I think one of the other concepts of the memorandum of understanding was food production. And I'm assuming all of this does also not only deal, not only looking for remedies to develop energy production in Nicaragua, but also to find alternatives to alleviate or respond to climate change, as you had mentioned earlier in our conversation. But can we talk a little bit about this new option for Nicaragua? And I would also argue not just for Nicaragua any longer, but for the rest of the world. Yes, I think that Latin America is grabbing the hand of a country that is offering help without any conditions politically speaking. They are offering help and it's been the Chinese government for us. Nicaragua has signed or our government and the Chinese government have signed a memorandum of understanding by which China offers to help us develop by means of renewable energy source projects. And of course, our government knows our needs and will surely know how to make the most of the help that China is offering and will surely focus on what we need most so that China can help us with that. This is all very recent. Remember that in November, we recognized again the Chinese government and those were the first steps to award signing the necessary agreements to build roads, ports, energy infrastructure, and even to develop the offshore oil and the Nicaraguan Pacific Coast with told them to help us and we're waiting to see how we can benefit from the help that China is offering because also a lot of our products, you know, our traditional market is the United States. It has always been the United States because there is a relatively short distance and a market like China involves other aspects but it is a new opportunity that has appeared for us a new market and of course we're going to make the most of any help that they can offer us. If they gift us something or if they lend us something that's great but they are coming here and they are asking what does Nicaragua need and Nicaragua and our government say this is what Nicaragua needs. They don't come here to say what they want to do and that is a great difference between companies from other parts of the world. Yeah, the paradigm is completely different. Yeah, an Occidental and Oriental way of seeing the world completely. I wanted to, yeah, that's true. You mentioned recognition of the People's Republic of China just for our audience. November, when were the presidential elections? 7 November 2021 and that week right after Daniel Ortega and Rosario Murillo were re-elected, Nicaragua announced that it would be leaving the OAS and then the following week I think within seven to ten days Nicaragua, I guess we need to say, re-recognize the People's Republic of China because during the first end of the Nista government there was full recognition of the People's Republic of China and then during the neoliberal years, 16 years of neoliberalism, Taiwan and now and then for the first administration, second administration, it was still Taiwan and now where the government's recognizing the People's Republic of China. So this is, for our audience, this is a re-recognition. It's not like this, oh my gosh, all of a sudden Nicaragua has turned to China. It's been there. That relationship was established in the 80s and then taken away for 16 years and now re-introduced, which is, I think that's an important difference to understand. It's not like, oh my gosh, all of a sudden Nicaragua is turning to China. They're re-recognizing that relationship. Also you mentioned offshore oil, Pacific offshore oil. Can we talk about that for a moment because that's like, I didn't even, I mean, I know off the coast of California where I'm from. There is oil, Santa Barbara specifically. I guess I hadn't thought about that off the coast of Nicaragua. Well, I hope that's for the good of our country to talk about these things because sometimes having many natural resources is dangerous. We're going to talk a little bit about that though. In the last five years, Statoil, which is a company from Norway, Statoil, which is a complex boarding nation, we performed jointly the seismic studies, all the geoscientific studies that are necessary geology, geochemistry, geophysics, everything that you can imagine with the most state-of-the-art technology. We've studied thousands of linear kilometers in the continental platform of Nicaragua in the Pacific Ocean. And we discovered a very promising resource. We established the quantities of gas, oil. We were practically at a stage of looking for the platform to drill the seabed. 20 kilometers away from the Masachapa coast here in Nicaragua. And the company that was performing the studies at Nicaragua suddenly said that it had to back away from the project because the new board in Norway had decided that it was better to invest in a place near Norway and not in a place so far away as Nicaragua. So Nicaragua is currently looking for partners. You know that the largest companies in the world, among them there are five, which are from North America, then there are two in Europe, one or two in China, one in Russia. So there are more or less like nine, but it's not that simple to bring an old platform here because they can't go through the Panama Canal if they come from Europe. They have to go through the Strait of Magellan and the South of Argentina and Chile. So the logistics for bringing this equipment is very expensive. It's a billion-dollar investment and we need a partner that is interested in taking all the studies that we have already done that are worth more than 60 million dollars. We need them to look at them to get interested in it and say, okay, let's do it. So we are waiting for someone to show up and I am sure that the government of Nicaragua, our president and our vice president, will approve a fair and just partnership because our government is a nationalist government and protects national interests. That is the greatest sin that a government in our region can have to demand respect, to demand peace. So we know how things are, but that's our main goal. We need for a company to come and we agree that they need to get a return on their investment, but they're not going to take everything away for free as it happened with oil in Venezuela or in Ecuador or all the resources in Latin America. The large companies came here to take everything away from us and they decided what they would pay us. That's not going to happen here. That's very difficult. You know this, boy, now there's several themes I want to follow now with your comments. This is fascinating talking to you. I so appreciate your time. These comments really looking for a partnership and not, so we're still looking at, well, regarding the oil deposits on the Pacific Coast, off the Pacific Coast of Nicaragua, we're looking at extraction industry versus renewables and I'd like to go back to the renewables in a moment, but with extraction, with the extraction industry, I think sometimes our audience, myself included, we get confused or anxious in saying, you know, stop the neocolonial extraction industry, but it's almost impossible for a country that's had an extraction industry-based economy to just get off of that overnight. That doesn't happen without spinning the economy, you know, into a downward spiral, but with Nicaragua having a partnership between these companies is key and it is a way of preserving your national sovereignty, but also, you know, the Venezuelans are really clear about using the term natural resource sovereignty in addition to national sovereignty and I think that that's such a clear way to state, you know, a people in their country maintaining control of what is within their country's borders. All natural resources, not just the not just the oil sitting off the Pacific Coast, but land and water and air and precious metal, all of it, the natural resource sovereignty is such an important thing. I do, you know, we saw so many elections throughout the hemisphere of the Americas last year, specifically in the month of November, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Chile, Argentina, Honduras, and I guess I would argue, unfortunately, with the exception of Argentina, all the other elections resulted in people voting to preserve their national sovereignty, non-interventionism, but also I would argue wanting to prevent balkanization of their countries and the grab for natural resources. They voted for natural resource sovereignty as well as national sovereignty and I think, you know, Nicaragua is very, very clear on that. It's a partnership. It's not, you know, a colonial relationship. It's an equal partnership to do business in Nicaragua and that's just so, it's so important. It's so, you can see it in the people and the Nicaraguan people, the, you know, the, the pride and ownership of the country, of themselves as a people and being in control of their economy and their government and their destiny and it's a, it's a very different, I guess for lack of a better term, you know, it's a different energy you feel among the Nicaraguan people than you do in many other countries. I would say you feel it in Haiti too, you know, the first country to liberate itself in the Americas. So it's a big, you know, what you're sharing with us is a really important program and concept for your nation to have and the leadership provides it, you know, in conjunction with all of you. It's really exciting. Can we, can we talk about, I don't want to focus on the oil too much, but it is important for the world to know that you have it off the Pacific coast because that comes into the whole geopolitical construct of things that you have, you have oil. Let's talk about the development of wind energy and solar energy, the continued growth of it because I know it was a pretty large percentage of the energy segment years ago, but it's continuing to develop. Can we talk a little more about both of those, those renewables? Yes, of course. Our national interconnected system, which includes all the conventional thermal power plants that we still have hydroelectrical power plants, geothermal power plants, wind power plants, and biomass from Cherokee and Bagas all come together. And there are mathematical models that we use that the energy and mining ministry uses to determine the plants that are made based on the supply demand forecast for the next years, let's say the next 15 years. So this model tells us which projects need to be carried out as the demand increases to keep a balance in the energy generation system. We have that and we are ready to develop and carry out our renewable resource projects in Nicaragua that are natural, but there are natural resources which are not renewable. That's worth clarifying for instance, gas. Gas is a natural resource, but it's not renewable and it pollutes more than any other projects that we were talking about. So this forecast tells us which projects we should carry out and then the agency that regulates Nicaragua's energy policy starts to recommend the projects that we should carry out and we as the state-owned energy generation company we seek to get financing which benefits the country and that's where we sometimes face hurdles because it's not simple nowadays for us to find that financing and what does it mean that in the future if they don't let us develop our own projects then we're going to rely again on fossil fuels and all the effort that we have done throughout these years has been worthless. So we have to really value what our government has done because we have contributed to the fight against climate change and global warming by not releasing gases that are going to worsen global warming and Nicaragua has signed the Paris Agreement. Nicaragua even has a law that has been recently enacted and it's called the approval of a national policy on climate change. It is a law in Nicaragua. We have a legal framework that establishes how we should face the changes in global climate, considering that Nicaragua only represents the 0.02 percent of the total greenhouse gases emissions and despite all of that we are fully committed to fighting against climate change because we know that we have to reduce those effects that are going to increase global warming and continue our development in a way that does not pollute the environment and we are not one of the countries that pollutes the most. We are not even close, not even to the first five, China, the U.S., Russia, Germany, India, oh my god. We are not even on the list as a country that contributes to climate change and despite that we have a law to allow the import of electric cars so we want to tell the world that our government cares about all these issues affecting humanity as a whole and that Nicaragua will be part of a group of countries that is fully aware of climate change and that wants to slow down its development because I think that we are diving head first into a climatic chaos if we continue doing what we are doing. Do you know that emissions of carbon dioxide have reached 37 million tons last year? Sorry, in 2018-2019 more than 37 million tons of carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere and the large capitals controlling the world should be worried about this because if not they will have no one to control because the United States which is second to China in terms of which country pollutes the most its gas production goes up, its oil production goes up and it did reduce its energy production based on coal that does help, of course, but the rest is still going up so what should we do? Atomic energy, okay it does not pollute in the sense that it doesn't release carbon dioxide or green house gases which contribute to climate change but what should we do? Should we resort to atomic energy? It takes 300 years for the radioactivity in one uranium bar to disintegrate so we're going to pollute the world with atomic energy, what do we do? We have to do something because if not we will reach a point in which everything will stop hydrogen I don't know any other method to separate hydrogen from oxygen that is not electrolysis so we need to find a way to get hydrogen because that's one of the future energy sources solar power which is not photovoltaic energy, that could work but to tell highly industrialized countries that they shouldn't produce electricity with gas it's like telling them to stop their development because they cannot do it and if they cannot do it with gas they will do it with coal so in the long run we are committing suicide humanity is heading towards it's death because what is the price that we are paying for more and more development we have to do something and that's the example that our government and we have tried to give if the government is not concerned about these things then things don't get done and that's what Nicaragua has done our government, our leaders, how our leaders defend the national interests that's why commander Ortega and Rosario Murillo are highly respected by the Nicaraguan people I have to mention this because I cannot isolate the energy generation context from the government, from the political situation because it's because of them that we were able to do that people may say that it's all political propaganda so in my case I am a santanista and a very proud one and I will say that until the day I die I don't have anything to hide but our country has a huge amount of natural resources and wonderful things have been achieved in our country in the last few years in every sense of the word and next time that you come I hope you can visit me and I will take you to the newest bridge that we've built over the river Coco joining Ginotega with Nueva Segovia this bridge is 320 meters long and 12 meters wide and for the first time in history people are not going to die when crossing the river on a boat which is one of the mightiest rivers in our country here roads are amazing there are no other places in Latin America with this roads of course we're not going to compare it to the highways in the US but our roads are incredible electricity social projects and programs for people do you know that more than 85 percent of the Nicaraguan population is vaccinated against covid our doctors and nurses go from home to home knocking on doors asking how many people have been vaccinated I'm vaccinating those who have not been vaccinated and then when we say that we have only 250 deaths others say that we are altering data that that's not true because they want to hear that 20 000 people have died because that's what our traders and nation-sellers want by doing negative propaganda about our country but here people are not fooled the people in the Caribbean coast it's the first time that they have electricity they can recharge their phones they can turn on the lights during the night watch tv listen to the radio exactly and by the way in terms of cell phones there's um well you know you mentioned and I'm sure the audience caught this as well but I think it deserves you know some reiteration that Nicaragua is one of the least contributors on the planet to carbon emissions and one of the greatest reliant on renewable energy leading the way in the Americas on renewables it's very impressive and but the irony of being one of the least contributors to carbon emissions and being the leader in renewables I mean that's that's a that's a huge accomplishment and and says and says a lot about things happening in the global south that we don't talk enough about the other thing in developing your your electric grid I mean I have watched this over the years as a particularly since 2007 and it's very clear the goal of the government was to get energy into homes and local communities but and with that and now over to the Caribbean coast as well as an enormous achievement but you need this energy grid a significant energy grid in place now now that the individual the individuals have been taking care of to go forward to develop your economy to attract business for domestic businesses to continue to grow you need to expand the electrical grid as well I mean it's it's a multi-tiered project but the getting the the electricity into individual homes and communities throughout the country just an enormous accomplishment something that the neoliberal privatized government prior to 2007 was not able to do failed miserably actually so we know that didn't work and that's a lesson for the entire world but it's it's a it's a fabulous it's a fabulous story that that you have to tell as your government your people the achievements it's really and you know for those of you uh for in the audience it's really I cannot emphasize enough the importance of going to Nicaragua and seeing even if you just want to go sit on a beach for a week and relax you will see how beautiful the country is how diverse it is how wonderful the people are and and the infrastructure achievements that they have have made it's really it's it's quite a story and it's a it's a real you know tribute to you your people that really is I mean uh it's it's quite something and it's very very I can't emphasize enough the importance of going to visit so what so senior people what's what's next you can Nicaragua continues to lead the hemisphere and renewable energy development and it's against the majority of your of your energy grid now what what's next to maintain the same development strategy the same strategy of electricity generation in the next 15 years I would love to be able to say that we will get rid of the 25 or 30 percent and of electricity based on fossil fuels that remains maybe in the next 15 or 20 years I won't be able to see that but I know that our country is moving towards that I am sure of that because that's what we've taught the next generations we've taught them about dignity respect sovereignty and love for Nicaragua and that is something the new generations will take with them and that is what will guide our future leaders forever because we cannot erase all the great heroes that we've had throughout the history of our country and that is a banner that we will always carry as we move through history and I am very proud of being a Nicaraguan of being a son of Sandino of working with the Sandinista front alongside Daniel Ortega and Rosario Murillo and of having done so in the last 45 48 years of my life well I'm very proud and very honored that you had time to join us today what a privilege to meet you and have this conversation and I'm so happy to share with our audience the development of energy throughout Nicaragua it's such a model for all of us and an example of what's possible between a government and her people and her land and resources so thank you so much for your time a real honor and a privilege to have this conversation with you today well I will definitely I will definitely take advantage of that invitation thank you so much I want to remind our audience that you've been watching what the F is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean CodePink's weekly YouTube program of hot news out of the region we broadcast every Wednesday 4 30 p.m. Pacific 7 30 p.m. Eastern on CodePink YouTube live also be sure to catch CodePink radio CodePink radio broadcasts every Thursday morning 11 a.m. Eastern 8 a.m. Pacific on Pacific radio stations WBAI out in New York City and WPFW out of Washington DC thank you everyone for joining us has been a terrific conversation I hope it was educational to all of you it certainly was for me and very much enjoyed today's conversation thank you so much we'll see you next week