 to think Tech Hawaii's law across the C program. Today we're going across the C to New Delhi, India to talk with Ravi Nath, who is the managing partner of the law firm of Rohinder, Narendra, and Company, also known as RN Legal. Ravi is a very experienced international attorney with great expertise in aviation and aerospace law. I met and became friends with Ravi, through our mutual membership in the Inter-Pacific Bar Association. I've asked Ravi to talk with us today about the past, the present, and the future of India and also what gives him hope for that future. Welcome Ravi. It's good to see you. How are you? Thank you, Mark. Lovely to see you again. Great. Thank you for being my guest today. Ravi, first I'd like to put up a map of India so we can kind of focus on where we are. You're in India now, you're in New Delhi, is that correct? I'm sitting in New Delhi, the capital of India, which you'll see with a red dot on that map. And so Delhi has a population of nearly about 20 million people. So you can imagine it's a large city as I am in the, yeah. India is in the middle of a whole bunch of other countries too, around it. And I understand Ravi that India celebrated 75 years of independence from Britain in August. And I wanted to ask you first to tell us what is the history behind that celebration? What does that day in history mean to the people of India? And how was the 75th anniversary of independence celebrated in India? So please, I know that's a lot of questions for you at once, but tell us, what is this independence day in India? Thank you. 75 years ago in 1947, India gained independence from the British rule. They left after about 200 years. And the handover was on the 15th of August, 1947. One day before that, 14th of August, another nation which had been carved out of India called Pakistan. Pakistan got its independence on the 14th of August and India on the 15th. 75 years have gone by and we now celebrate certain achievements in this country. We now celebrate our independence and we now celebrate and we now look forward to what is to come. So, how we celebrated this is, there was a speech by the Prime Minister from the Red Fort in which he addressed the nation. And he briefly dwelt on the history, but more he dwelt on what is to come, what the plans are and how they will be achieved. For instance, we have already achieved a literacy rate in India of 75%. At the time when the British left 75 years ago, the literacy rate was 12%. And there are other successes and achievements in terms of health, in terms of education, in terms of infrastructure development, in terms of our space program, in terms of our medicine at the time of COVID, a huge vaccination program was taken up and India became virtually, I mean, everyone, every adult was inoculated or rather double inoculated within a short space of time. So, if you go down the streets of Delhi or any other city, you would hardly notice that there was COVID at some point of time here in India. Wow, that's amazing. And is that what is called the report card on India? Is that what the Prime Minister was talking about? Yes, partially. There are other achievements, to be sure. What type of achievements? What is the report card? What are the grades that India got on the report card? We have, what is it that the common man needs? Housing, clothing, food, education, and I will add to that transport. In all those five areas, we can be proud of our achievement. Now, when the British left, India's share of the world trade was 3%. Now it is 8%. As I mentioned, India's population, I perhaps did not mention population. We are now 1.4 billion people. Soon, we will overtake China. Wow. We have not managed to provide housing for all, but nearly for all. Of course, there's housing, but there's not the kind of housing that you would like to provide. Education has become compulsory. Children must go to school. And at school, they are provided with lunch. And of course, whatever they require to get ahead. We have clothing, of course, there has never ever been a problem. India has one of the largest clothing, I mean, largest cloth producing countries. Medicine, health care. We have provided, we have managed to provide health care, quite a bit of improvement, but there's still some ground to be covered. India is known as the, how shall I say, maker of medicine to the world. Because we are producing an enormous amount of medicines which are being exported. Vaccine is the largest producer of vaccine in the world. And that is how we were able to vaccinate against COVID. But we have gone beyond that. And I'd like to take being lawyers or being a lawyer myself. I would like to take 30 seconds to tell you about something which is very close to my heart. Constitution of India, which is perhaps the longest constitution in the world, which draws inspiration from the United States Constitution, from the Swiss Constitution, from the United Kingdom, which is unwritten, of course, and so on from really five constitutions. It has a chapter which is called fundamental rights. And those rights are inalienable. Those rights are such that you can go directly to our highest court, the Supreme Court, if any of those rights are breached. One of those rights is called the right to life. That's article 21 in our Constitution. The Supreme Court has widened the scope of the right to life. The court has held that right to life does not mean just simply existing like an animal. Right to life means right to live a decent life as a human being, which means what? Which means that right to be left alone, right not to be disturbed by unnecessary noise or air pollution, and so on. So you can imagine that how this scope of that right to life has been expanded and is continually being expanded and the courts enforce it. So I want to mention one thing in particular, if I may take another 20 seconds in doing so. In the recently concluded Glasgow conference on COP, Environmental Conference, India has pledged that it will go to zero emission by the year 2077. So we have we've already taken considerable steps towards it. We've got a fair bit of hydropower, nuclear power as well, wind power and you know these alternate source sun, so on. Yeah. Okay, so it sounds like you've achieved a lot. India's achieved a lot. It also has a lot of goals for the future. And are there things that have not worked out so well? Are there grades that are not passing? Yes. What type of grades would that be and what subjects are we talking? Well, there are miles to go and miles to go before I sleep. And so said Robert Frost, you know, he said words are lovely dark and deep and there are miles to go and miles to go before I sleep. So what we have still to do and what we are doing is achieving some sort of social equality. 80% of India's population is Hindu. About 15% is Muslim and 5% is a mixture of Christians and Parsees and there's a sprinkling of Jewish population and others. Now, what we want to bring about is homogeneity. What we want to bring about is remove the differences in the personal laws of parties. That will take some time. That's one thing. The second thing that we have yet to achieve is housing for all. Housing meaning a housing of the kind that we understand it to be that is proper strong structure and not just simply a mud hut. So that we are on the way to achieving. We have done considerable work on that. What are the areas? The third area that I feel that some more work needs to be done is law enforcement and justice delivery. Justice delivery system of ours is not as efficient as it should be. So it takes a long time. Sometimes it takes a long time for cases to be decided and there what we are trying to do is increase the number of courts and judges and shall I say sharpen the saw. By that I mean that we will have more of mediation and arbitration and conciliation kind of proceedings so that the courts do not get clogged with small causes. Those are a few areas. Okay. All right. So those are areas where I can see they are almost universal in a way because we also have similar issues here. And so we are all kind of working towards the same direction. Now I want to go back to history a little bit. And you know you got your independence from Britain and what is the really and then in Pakistan also got independent at about the same time. What is the India's relationship with United Kingdom and Pakistan now? Are they are they are friendly? Are they animosity? Is there resentment towards Britain? Is there friendship with Pakistan? Where does India stand or is it somewhere in between? That's a very relevant and a very good question mark. British or shall I say English left after about 200 years of rule. There were some good things. There were quite a lot of bad things as well. But at the end of the day when they left and until today there is a feeling of friendliness towards each other. Okay. We are cooperating with the United Kingdom in a number of areas and it is not just on the rebound after Brexit. It has existed all these number of years and that is why you use so many joint ventures in India and Indian business houses buying up so many of British icons even Jaguar Land Rover for instance that is any that is in Indian hands and there are a number of other British companies. Now that is that is not not just buying or taking over but it's a collaboration that's going on. Education for higher education there's a lot of interchange between India and United Kingdom more towards United Kingdom where our students go to study and but there also exchanges the other way around. This is going on has been going on for the past 75 years and I don't see it letting up. Pakistan. The situation in Pakistan or situation with Pakistan is this that Pakistan and Bangladesh were a part of India during British time and four times immemorial. This was all one country. When the time of independence came the leaders the Muslim leaders wanted a separate nation which they wanted to be Islamic. India on the other hand chose the path of a secular being a secular nation that is that there's no state-sponsored religion and so what happened was that the British could not help it and they had to carve two parts of India out. One was called West Pakistan which is now today Pakistan and the other called East Pakistan which is today Bangladesh. Now the two Pakistan's drew away from each other. There was a war and Bangladesh as a nation was born so Bangladesh is an independent nation and Pakistan what used to be West Pakistan is just simply called Pakistan. The problem that India and Pakistan have is mainly over Kashmir. If you see the northern tip of India or the northern if you look at the map you'll see at the northern point Kashmir right up there between Pakistan and China that you might call that the head of India and the rest of it if you were to regard as the body. So yeah that one. Now Pakistan felt that the British were wrong in dividing India the way that they had done and that Kashmir belongs to them so they started marching into Kashmir and the Indian army was airlifted and they stemmed that they stopped the Pakistani army from you know in its track but by that time they'd already covered one third of Pakistan the one third of Kashmir and that is where the matters have rested for the past about 70 years. So one third of Kashmir is occupied by Pakistan they don't call it occupied of course they call it as a part of India and the balance two third is with India and Pakistan feels that India has occupied the two third and so but that's that is their perception so but if one were to look at the articles in one word to look at the agreement Kashmir was a part of India so arising from that that is the genesis of the problem arising from that India and Pakistan have gone to war with each other three times. Well so that's a bit of history you know why can't people get along right. Now let me ask you Prime Minister Narendra Modi who is he and what is what is his what is his vision of India for the future. Again a very relevant and good question because Prime Minister Modi is regarded as a very dynamics leader of India somebody who who India needs at this point of time he is an inspirational leader he comes from the state of Gujarat that is where Mahatma Gandhi came from and he worked his way through the ranks became the chief minister of the state of Gujarat and ultimately the prime minister of India and he has led the country ever since he has his party is called BJP Bhartiya Janta Party to give us a long name and you'll be surprised that you'll be surprised with his origin he used to be a tea seller at a railway station wow so it's almost like you know Lincoln story can you imagine that you that that that that Indian democracy Indian principles allows that to happen and so today he is the leader the country respected around the world and I had no idea he he was a tea seller you know at a station I had no idea wow and he's up there with all the major leaders of the world amazing he he is a mesmerizing speaker but that's not all you know it comes from within if you hear his speech on India's 75th anniversary you will you'll know what I mean he you know it's not as if you know somebody is telling him or teaching him what to say no it's there within him I mean I I you know there are people of course as it happens in politics there are criticisms to be sure there are people who say that look you're espousing Hinduism and this is something which is which is not accepted in a secular nation those are those are some of the accusations against him there's still there's still is some dissension and and there's still is some differing views I see now you you mentioned Mahatma Gandhi and I wanted to ask you know how is he viewed in India today and what is his legacy what is Mahatma Gandhi's legacy now in India and what do people in India think of him let me take five seconds or ten to just give you a little snapshot Mahatma Gandhi whose birthday is celebrated on the second of October which is a national holiday is called father of the nation and he gave to the world the message of non-violence that how you can achieve what you want to achieve by non-violence it is the history has it that it is his non-violence that made the British leave India it was not as if Indians had to fight a battle to achieve independence no it was not like that there are many people many world leaders who are influenced by him I mean the in Ireland and South Africa Nelson Mandela for instance is I mean you know they they you know Gandhi is regarded as as you know as a as a leader of non-violence he was he lived very simply he lived extremely simply I would say he kind of lived like a man who has no money you know he would travel once once a journalist asked him a question that Mr. Gandhi why do you always travel the third class in the real base and he answered very sweetly oh that's because there's no fourth class so you know that's how simply you know he he lived and he would always wear a lion cloth the one that he's famous for so after a meeting in London he was in the course of which he was invited to meet the king and after the meeting he comes out of the palace and he's surrounded by reporters one of whom asked him Mr. Gandhi did you go and see the king emperor wearing that he said yes you know the king emperor was wearing enough clothes for the two of us oh that's great what a sense of humor I didn't know that yeah yeah he had a sense of humor but he was also a leader and he actually tried to prevent a division of India between Pakistan and and and what is India but he did not succeed in that and before he came back to India he was he was in law right yes he was qualified as a barrister in London and then he went to Africa South Africa to practice law so as a barrister he practiced law and saw the discrimination those were remember those were the days of apartheid the whites and the colored and whilst he was insulted in that respect and he was in fact thrown out of the first class railway compartment as a barrister he was properly dressed and so forth and the and the ticket collector said this does not belong to you but but all that is something that he took in a stride but somehow he was propelled from that point onward to become a leader and then he sort of he said that I'm going back to my country and I want to live the way that the poorest in India live so that I can understand their problems you know well that it actually speaks well for lawyers doesn't it maybe maybe we lawyers can provide some solutions and some hope but let me let me ask you that we got a lot of problems in the world today there's that while there was COVID the pandemic and then there was you know problems with the climate and hurricanes and we got wars everywhere and you still have problems Pakistan and India is there anything that gives you hope for the future are there any and are there any Indian cultural words of wisdom that you convert share with us that provide some guidance on how to live life the best life you know Indian civilization is more than 5000 years old and there is there is quite a lot of philosophy and quite a lot of quite a lot to imbibe there is a book called Geeta and this Geeta is one part of a Hindu epic called Mahabharat it is full of wisdom very difficult for me to say as to what message India can give but I can you know I'll give you just two words which which our prime minister has has coined he says sabka sadh sabka vikas we all together and we all will progress we together and we all progress that is what it is but going further a little bit further into philosophy you know it is really just about this they do unto others as you would have others do unto you okay I I appreciate those words and what you're also saying is that people people can be the solution if they think the right way if they act the right way and become friends as you and I have and so I appreciate those words of wisdom and doing things together yes I can really see that I mean that's how the inter pacific bar association for example when we get people lawyers like Gandhi all from all over the world getting together and doing good things yeah that I that makes a lot of sense to me so thank you so much Ravi Nath for being my guest today and sharing your wisdom and your knowledge and expertise I appreciate it very much thank you Mark thank you thank you for having me on the show I enjoyed talking to you and I look forward to seeing you again in the future when we travel aloha thank you so much for watching think tech hawaii if you like what we do please like us and click the subscribe button on youtube and the follow button on vimeo you can also follow us on facebook instagram twitter and linked in and donate to us at think.kawaii.com mahalo