 The nail of my lab is a supermicroorganic function of assembly. So you want to make a assembled structure with a function. After you get your targeted compound purified, then how do you believe you get a pure compound? So you have the use of AMR and mass spectroscopy and chromatography to see the purity of your compound. That's called identification and caracalization. Then after that step, you get your pure compound. Then you can start to study the host against the bandy behavior and also the bandy properties of your microcycles. So we use sugar to selectively, highly selectively extract the gold iron from the mixture, from the metal mixture out from the water. Then we can get a very pure gold after a very simple work-up process. So our process bypass the use of cyanide. That's the major advantage of our process. Firstly, we use another software called ChemDraw to draw the structure. The structure of formula, formula of your structure. Then just save the molecular dynamic simulation. Then the software will get an optimized structure. Then you will see your structure is possible or not. So simulation can make our work more simple. Someone's opinion may contradict yours. Where's my friend Alan? It's all about your perspective. Who are we and what is the nature of this reality? What's up everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host Alan Sakin. We are on site at the beautiful Westlake University in Hangzhou, China. We are now going to be talking about supramolecular chemistry. We have Dr. Jiacheng Liu joining us on the show. Hello. Hello. Thank you so much for coming on our show. I really appreciate it. You're welcome. It was super cool being here. It was so fun being in your lab too, getting a tour from you. For those that don't know, Jiacheng's background. He's an assistant professor and principal investigator at Westlake University working on supramolecular organic functional assemblies, SOFA, which will unlock a new paradigm in organic chemistry. And you can find all of his links in the bio below. Okay, Jiacheng, let's start things off with one of our favorite questions we like asking our guests. What are your thoughts on the direction of our world? Our thoughts, I think, will become very I mean, our world will be very precisely going to detailed directions. And like, for example, chemistry, we are starting more and more deeply. And we, how to explain, let me think. For example, my research area become very precisely assembly. I mean, just when you start it deeply, deeply and deeply, then you will get more details into it. Then either, yeah, I just thought our world will not be a uniform world anymore. I think it will be personalized or even unique, I think. For everyone. For example, for the disease therapy, we can very accurately to hear the disease without hurting other parts of your body. Just the accuracy and the yeah, yeah, yeah, this is this is a good point. It's that we have newer and newer tools that let us go to the deeper and deeper depths of science and in your field, especially with chemistry. Yeah, yeah, we're going to be talking about that. Okay, who were you as a kid growing up? And how did you get interested in science and chemistry? Actually, I got interested in science, especially in chemistry. It started from my primary school because my my primary school teacher showed me very interested in chemistry interaction, chemistry reaction, phenomena like the color change and the hydrogen burn, all those kinds of chemical reactions make me very excited. So I started my primary school. I have had a very strong interest in it. Then I pursued it. Maybe I pursued it through high school and then the undergraduate study. Then I started from my master degree. I went into the area of organic chemistry. And then after organic chemistry study, I investigated my PhD study in the area of polymer chemistry. And then in my post postdoc research area is super chemical chemistry. So I think all these areas in my research can integrate into one. So that's what I'm working on now. I love the young kid that's learning about color changes, color changes and learning about just the most fundamental chemistry things and gets really excited by it. And then ends up pursuing the life in the field. I really like that. And this was organic chemistry at Hunan University first, then a PhD in organic chemistry from Shanghai Institute of Organic Chemistry. And then you came to the United States, came to Northwestern and did your postdoc in super molecular chemistry and mechanostereo chemistry. So let's talk about what that is because that's very cutting edge super molecular chemistry. Complex molecules held together by non-covalent bonds. And this is usually large groups of molecules that form sphere, rod or sheet like species. So why super molecular assembly? What is this? Why is it so important? Super molecular chemistry is very important. One example is our body. Our body actually is a super molecular assemblies. Yeah, maybe this is too big, but for a very small one sphere, one sphere actually is a sphere like a capsule. That's a super assembly. That's a lot more, a lot more molecular. So then assembly into a double layer then form the wall of the sphere, then encapsulate everything like a DNA or everything inside the capsule then form a sphere. So that's exactly a super molecular assembly. So for super molecular study, we are going to study the basic molecules, how to assembly into functional assemblies. Yeah, so for assembly into life, that's I think is the terminal target of our study. But now maybe in our very fundamental study, we only study the very simple languages to simulate the assembly of life process. So yeah, we we start from simple, then we are going to the complicated one. Yeah, so all this assembly is through non-quin interactions. Non-quin interactions, for example, the pipestake interaction and hydrobound interaction. Hydrobound interaction is very unique for maybe for protein. For protein, you know, the whole protein is a linear polymer, but this linear polymer can fold the and the coil into alpha helix or beta shape structure, then the final structure will become functional. So yeah, that's that's what we are going to do. So that's why my the type, the name of my lab is the supermicroorganic functional assembly. So you want to make assemble the structure with the function. Yes. Yeah, that's what we are going to do. Yeah, I think that's the target of all supermicrochemists. Yes, yes. So we want to understand a molecule that is not just an individual H2O molecule, but we want to make lots of molecules that are connected to each other in an assembly that is functional in some way for us. Yes. And right now, super molecular chemists are interested in synthesizing. So first designing ones and then synthesizing these super molecular assemblies that have some sort of functional purposes in our world across different fields, healthcare, energy, agriculture, it's unlimited, right, the amount of fields. It can be everywhere, super molecular assemblies. Yes. Yes, yes. So supermicro assembly, supermicrochemistry can be applied in many areas. I think one area is for like the for like a drug delivery, drug delivery. Normally, some drugs are hydrophobic, but if you want to make the but in our body, the hydrophilic environment. So normally, we use the hydrophilic horse molecule, then this molecule can bind it to the hydrophobic drug molecule. Then finally, you will form a complex, that complex will become hydrophilic. Then you can put it into your body and get a good absorption. Yeah, that's one application. Another application is like maybe, for example, our detergent for washing detergent detergent detergent detergent detergent detergent detergent detergent. Yeah, that's actually is a self assembly process. So you use the surfactant molecule. The surfactant molecule can form a capsule to include the oil or then move into water. The oil in your dish is not water soluble, but after the capsulation with the surfactant, then the oil drop will become water soluble, then you can wash it away. That's also an application of supermicrochemistry. So supermicrochemistry, I think, a lot of it just uses the assembly behavior of basic molecules, organic molecules. So this one's very relatable. So the little detergent pods that we put in the dishwasher or into the laundry machine, that those have on the outside that little thin that it doesn't break when you're into your hand, but as soon as it makes contact with the water for a long period of time and shake, that's the super molecular assembly breaks apart and it opens the detergent in the wash. So it's the thin sheet. That's a super molecular assembly. Yes, that's exactly the supermicro assembly. Interesting. And what do they, do you know what that's called, that thin sheet? Does it have a name? We normally just call it a double layer structure. It's actually quite similar to the wall of a sphere. Oh, the wall of a cell. Yeah, double layer. Double layer. Yeah, the hydrophobic tear inside the layer and the hydrophilic head is outside of the sphere. Hydrophilic outside, hydrophobic inside. So that's in the water area, but also you can use this reverse surfactant. This process can also be reversed in all your environment. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Interesting. Yeah. Because the hydrophobic inside doesn't break because it's connected to the more water and then the hydrophilic is on the outside and it. To contact with the water. To contact with the water and then break when it's ready to contact and break. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So double layer and you can switch. You can put hydrophobic on the outside, hydrophilic on the inside if you want. You can switch. Yeah. For different applications. Yeah, different environments. You said one was you would put the hydrophobic on the outside to, if you had oil or something. Oh, yeah. Is that what you said? Yes, yes, yes. Interesting. Where in what, when would you do that if you had the oil on the outside? Oil outside, I think. This is one major application is in our chemical reaction for the, we call this kind of molecular as a phase transfer catalyst. Phase transfer. So you have two layer, one is the oil layer, one is the aqueous layer, then, but you have to transfer some reagent from the water phase to your oil phase. So you have to use this kind of, we call it phase transfer catalyst. Yes. Yes. A phase transfer catalyst. So I would have to move something from the one phase to another phase. Yeah. Actually, yeah. The two phase are not thought about. Okay. The two phase are not soluble. Yeah. Yeah. And you have to move one thing from one to the other. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. And then the other example you gave was the drug target. Drug target. Yes. Drug delivery. Drug delivery. Yeah. Yeah. So you have to deliver a complex super molecule to a very specific place inside of the body. Oh, yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And so if you make a super molecule that can identify in the body where it has to go and then have it go. Mm-hmm. Yes. You can do it like that. Yeah. You can put like, yeah. That's called a targeted drug delivery. Yeah. The targeted drug delivery. Yeah. Now, let's talk about, you know, during also the, during the postdoc, you founded, you co-founded a company called Cyclodex. Yes. And this received an SF funding. You were isolating and purifying gold. So this also has a, you have a process also with what you're doing right now in the lab with this purification process. So teach us about what exactly Cyclodex is doing. Cyclodex now is doing about to scale up this process into practical applications. Hopefully we can use this into all over the world, everywhere the gold mines in all gold mines. Because now in, now in, now the, nowadays the gold, gold, maybe gold purification and the gold extraction, gold recovery, people use cyanide. Yeah. Very toxic compound to extract gold from the mine. Will you cyanide to extract the gold from the mine? Extract gold, yes. So our advantage of the process is we don't use cyanide. We bypass the use of cyanide. We can use the very environmental line compound. We call it Cyclodex tree. Cyclodex tree actually is a sugar. We can eat it. Yeah. It's edible. So we use sugar to selectively, highly selectively extract the gold iron from the mixture, from the metal mixture out from the water. Then we can get a very pure gold after a very simple workup process. So our process bypass the use of cyanide. That's major advantage of our process. Because now the cyanide process, he made a lot of environmental destructive problem. Yeah. How do you get a sugar to bind with the gold iron? Yeah. How does the sugar? The sugar, this is also based on the principle of supermic chemistry. Supermic chemistry, we use the non-covalent bond to form supermic complex. So the gold iron with four bromide atoms coordinate the gold iron. This kind of gold iron can be encapsulated into the cavity of Cyclodex tree. Cyclodex tree is the microcyclic sugar. Then this microcyclic sugar can bind the gold iron inside the cavity through hydro bond. Yeah. So you can get a very compact, simple complex. And then this complex can precipitate out from water. Then you will get a pure gold. Yeah. That's what, actually I discovered this phenomenon and this process by serrativity. Yeah. So this is, yeah, maybe I should say, oh, this is a gift of God. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Well, when you also study a field so closely and so much also at the edge, so few people are doing super molecular chemistry right now. And so of course the people that are going to be there doing it, the first ones are going to find the lucky things like the gifts of God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then this transition happened in 2018 in September. It's been a year now to assistant professor in PI at Westlake. Yeah. And the super molecular organic functional assemblies lab, SOFA lab. SOFA lab. Yeah. And so let's start talking about this. You guys actually just published a paper again yesterday and had 54 of these now high profile scientific papers, 10 patents. Let's talk about what's going on in the lab and we'll start with the fundamentals. So what are these fundamentals that you guys care about in super molecular chemistry? In our lab, now the very fundamental study is one area is focused on to make cyclic compound because we are doing super molecular chemistry. Cyclic compound normally we call the host molecule. Cyclic compound always can capture something or bind something. So make the cyclic compound then this can be used to selectively capture some talking molecules and make it maybe more soluble or just maybe separate from others. So this is I think a very fundamental idea is about the cyclic compound. Yes. Because it can encapsulate something. Yeah. Because the cyclical aspect to it can house, can encapsulate something in it. And usually what do you want to encapsulate in it? You gave us the example of the gold earlier. Yeah. Gold. And then what else can you house here or encapsulate here? Capsulate here actually for different guest molecular we call the molecular encapsulate the guest molecular. So different guest molecular can use different host molecular. So in the names again guest? Guest. Guest is on the inside. Inside the host. Yeah. And the house. Host. The host. Okay cool. So the host is here the one that's encapsulated is the host and this is the guest that comes in. Yes. Yeah. Host, guest, chemistry we also call. Host, guest, chemistry. Yeah. This is the power power name with super chemical chemistry at some time. Host, guest. Yeah. Cool. Because cyclical is so important. Okay. Yes. Cyclical is very important. Yeah. So. Okay. Who else can be the guest? A lot. A lot. A lot. Like I said the halogenated gold ion is one that's totally hydrophilic one. But a lot hydrophobic molecules like I said the maybe some hydrophobic drug molecules. Yes. And also sometimes just some petrochemicals the compound like different toluene or xylene xylene mixture. We can use the micro cyclic compound because different isomers has different band D association constant. So you can get a very good separation. Normally for separation is a very important for chemical engineering. So especially for a petro-new engineering I think. Yeah. So we make a lot of just chemicals that you have to purify, but you get a mixture. For example, the day we showed in the lab is the chromatography. You have to use something, use a column to purify your compound, your mixture, you get a pure compound, but as I said, we can also use the micro cycle, micro cycle compound to purify your mixture to get the specific one. Yes. Okay. We'll get we'll get here in a little bit on the purification. Let's stay with the next step. So we have this fundamental of the having a cyclical, cyclical host, cyclical host, and then you want to design the host. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So you in order and this is hard because the host that you're designing is sometimes it's not found in nature. Yeah. So you have to make make your synthesize. You're going to synthesize something that's not found in nature. Okay. So then you have to design what this cyclical molecule should look like. Yeah. The detailed structure. The detailed structure of the of the super molecule. Yeah. The micro cycle. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so then teach us about the the design because you have to use software chemistry software. You have to use simulations. Yes. Use Chem 3D is one of them and Spartan is another one. So how does your lab use the software to design the molecule and have the simulation so you know that it's going to be good. Good host. Yeah. Firstly, we we use another software called Chem draw to to draw the structure the structure of formula formula of your structure. Then just say with the molecular dynamic simulation, then the software will get optimize your structure. Then you will see your structure is possible or not. If it is a possible structure, then you are going to make it. But if it's not is not possible is a very uncommon structure or very strange one. Then you will think about the maybe I have to redesign or improve the structure or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So simulation can make our work more simple. But yeah, you cannot just a single with your brand and make it. There may be in the end, then you get a useful structure. So that's possible. That's possible. So we have to make sure make sure we don't waste our time. Yeah. So you're making sure that the host is going to be able to be possible be possible and functional and functional. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you may you design the micro cycle, but finally the structure is not is not a micro cycle is just a totally collapsed structure. Then you do need to synthesize. Yes. Yes. Yeah. That's why you run the simulation simulations to make sure that the molecule that you're designing is going to be functional. Yeah. Yeah. I think nowadays the simulation is very helpful and important for our study. Yeah. More and more important. Yeah. And maybe even going further, AI can help us to you just give me our water size and the water moieties that we are going to use for to make the structure. Then the AI can help you to design. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's possible. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We can use the computational capacity and the creative capacity to run a lot of different simulations. Yeah. Maybe millions of designs of what could it be an optimal host. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I love how applicable simulations are to scientific advancement. This is very cool. Okay. So then let's say you get the really good molecular design, very functional. Okay. So now is the organic synthesis. Yes. Okay. So you want to achieve a target molecule down the line, this molecular design, what you made for the host. You want to achieve it down the line. Yeah. But you need to add first these non target molecules, solvents, reagents, and then you need to go through this organic synthesis process. So teach us about what's going on in the synthesis process. Yeah. In the synthesis, normally for the target compound, we can synthesize through one step or multi-steps. So firstly, normally you run, carry out organic reaction. Then after the reaction, you normally firstly remove the solvent by rotary vibrator. Then use the chromatography to purify your compound. Then get the next step start material. Then you use this compound to do the next step reaction. Then again, again, to go to the target compound after you get your target compound purified. Then how do you believe you get a pure compound? So you have to use the AMR and the mass spectroscopy and chromatography to see the purity of your compound. That's called the identification and characterization. Then after that step, you get your pure compound. Then you can start to study the host gets the bandy behavior and also the bandy properties of your micro-cycle. This first part of the organic synthesis, you have to find the right non-target molecules to add to solvents and reagents to try and make this final targeted molecule that you design. How do you even, how do you know what reagents solvent and non-target molecules, how do you know that if you combine these things together, it's going to make this really good host that you designed? So we have a process called retro-synthetic analysis. You get your target compound. Then based on the target compound structure, you can use the retro-synthetic analysis to retro-analysis the next stable hour. Retro-synthetical analysis. Wow, is that RSA? Do you say that RSA, retro-synthetical analysis? You can call RSA. So this RSA retro-synthetical analysis, you can take what is the molecular design, the final target one and this retro-synthetical analysis will say, why don't you try these molecules, these reagents and this solvent? Wow. Yeah, step by step and go back to the starting material. Wow. How does RSA work? How does it guess what is? This RSA, I think in most cases based on the literature, the literature. Yeah, yeah. Give me some literature. Because you know your final structure. Yeah. So you have the, you have some, because of the totally new, totally brand new compound, but you have some similar functional groups or moieties. You can find the literature, how to think that this kind of moieties then integrate the case maybe. Yeah. Wow. But sometimes you need to try. So does RSA have a catalog? Is there like a dictionary or a library or, you know, the big catalog so that I can say that, okay, maybe this molecular design could have a different ways. Yeah, different ways. But it could be like maybe like a library or catalog where it's like, okay, this molecular design is kind of similar to this other one. So they're going to have kind of similar RSAs. Yes. And these two are very different. So they're going to have very different RSAs. So it's a big catalog of final molecular designs and how to possibly get to them. Yes. And then every time you have a new simulation of a molecular design, you go through the process of the RSA and then you do the organic synthesis with what the RSA said. And then if it's successful or close to successful, you'll give maybe you can do the training, the machine training and say that was a good RSA recommendation. Yes. Actually, some chemists are doing this process by AI. Yeah. Yeah. That's the power of AI. I think maybe you can after the machine learned a lot enough processes or reactions, then the machine can give you a very good way to synthesize. Yes. Very short way or very simple way or very efficient way to synthesize your target molecule. Yes. Wow. So there's some organic chemists, ones that are doing the super molecular assembly, some are figuring out how to train the machine and say this RSA was bad, this RSA was medium, this was good for the specific molecular design that we're looking for. So they constantly give it a new molecular design and see what it gives for an RSA, do the organic synthesis and see if it was good, bad, where it was. And then train the machine, train the algorithms to give better and better RSAs. Yes. Yes. So you have higher success rate every time you do your synthesis. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Again, RSA retro synthetical analysis, retro synthetical analysis. Wow. Yeah. Okay. So then okay. So now you figured out what, the RSA told you what molecule solvents and reagents to put in and then you, now what happens? I saw in the lab you have a process of like the machine is kind of maybe doing the circular motion of the synthesis. So how do you know if you have to shape, you have to move it like this, what temperature it has to be at, if it has to be cold, if it has to be really hot, because you have the very cold machines. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. How do you know what temperature and what motion and for how long? For one specific reaction, normally we, firstly we go into the, we to read the literature to find a similar compound, how to synthesize that one. We use, firstly we use the similar conditions to synthesize our new compound. Yeah. So firstly we look into the literature to find some references, then follow the references to maybe to improve it or something like that to reach our compound. Yeah. Okay. So you, if you have a molecular design that is completely new, you look for something similar in the literature. Yeah. And then if you don't find something similar, then it's kind of a guess, a close guess, as close as you can get. Yeah. If it's totally brand new, no, no, any literature reported, then you, you can try, you can, yeah, you can develop a new way, a totally brand new way to synthesize it, or maybe you have to doubt your design has some problems. Because why aren't people going towards that design? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But you could have some good idea. Yeah. Who knows? Yeah, maybe you just make a great compound. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, okay. So you look for, if you, usually when you make the molecular design, you find some literature that says, okay, this amount of heat or cold over this amount of time, and maybe spinning or yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So you'll find the similar conditions. Similar conditions. Okay. Yeah. And this takes, can sometimes be several days. Yeah. For the synthesis to happen. Yes. Sometimes like overnight or one week, or maybe few hours. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Anywhere from few hours to a week or more. Yeah. Okay. And then, okay. So then once the, once that, that, that synthesizing process is done, then you have the, you have your, your target molecule molecular design is in this mix. Mixed. Yeah. And you want to purify it out of the mix. Yes. Okay. And then this is where you are teaching us about a rotary evaporation. So that's the first one. So you go and you have the mix do a process of moving. The solution of mixture. Yeah. Solution. Yeah. Solution of mixture. Yes. Then firstly, you after, actually, after reaction, you get a solution or mixture, then we normally we have, we have some work up process, work up a process to, to remove some like a sort, the sort or something like that to wash your organic face, then to dry, then, then collect your filtrate. That's still the solution of your mixture. But you removed some inorganic salt or others. What soluble impurity or something like that. This is the first purification. Then after you connected your solution of the mixture, then you got the rotary evaporator to remove the solvent. Remove the solvent you will get the residue. That's the solid normally. Normally, maybe also oil. Depend on the wet point of your compound. Yeah. Then you get your. Your solvent is literally separating from the mixture. Yeah. From the mixture. Yeah. Through this rotary evaporator. Yeah. Then you're just spinning the rotary evaporator spinning. Yeah. To make the evaporation faster. Evaporation and you have a little like water. Yeah. Water. Yeah. Water can heat it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Solvent gets evaporated, gets separated. Yeah. And you're left with the mixture. Okay. The mixture. So now the mixture is a mixture without the solvent. Then you can use the chromatography to purify your purify to get what they come, what you want. Yeah. Now, what inside the chromatographer, this is like the last step of the purification. Yeah. In the chromatographer, you were teaching me before we started, it's like a race. Yes. The race. Yeah. And so your final target molecular design is going to, is it going to come first? Or is it going to just come at some point different than the other? Some point different. Some point different. So it can come later or second or third or whenever. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yes. Just make the distance between two parts big enough. Yes. So you have enough time to connect then. Yeah. Get enough purity. Yeah. What does the chromatographer do to the mix to make it so that the two or the three or however many are left so that they separate? Yeah. This is kind of we call the absorption process. So if your compound has a strong band to the column, so your target compound will run very slow because the band is very strong. But if another compound band is very weak, so fast. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Okay. So you can separate. Okay. Okay. And then now you have your final target molecules. You have it. And now you need to do identification. Yes. So this part you use, you need to make sure it's the correct compound. Yeah. You want to, what you designed in the software with the molecular design, you are now going to do nuclear magnetic resonance, NMR and mass spectroscopy. Yeah. To basically see if what you see in the identification is what you designed in the software. Yeah. To see that the compound you get has the correct structure. Yes. Yes. If it has the exact structure, you want it to be exactly the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then the next one is the electron microscopy and the atomic force microscopy, AFM. And this is because you're starting to study the super molecular assembly. Yes. Okay. So once you identify, make sure it's the correct compound, then you need to go, is it a little bit deeper? Yeah. A little bit deeper to study the assembly behavior of your compound. Maybe, for example, or for my gold extract, gold recovery work discovery. I use the SEM to discover the assemblies. The assemblies of the cycle texture with gold is actually, is the high vector ratio nanowire. You can clearly see with the SEM, scanning electron microscopy. Yeah. Yeah. So that's after you make your target compound, then you use the target compound to do assembly. Yeah. Okay. So, okay. You see that the assembly is what you wanted it to be in the molecular design. Okay. So it's now what you want it to be. Now, you need to figure out, because you were teaching me about this, that the yields can be a little low. Yeah. Small yields. Yeah. For the microcyclic compound, normally the yield is quite low. So sometimes we have to improve the synthetic process to enhance the yield. Yeah. There's no machines the size of this building. Yeah. For doing the organic synthesis. For one whole day, imagine the building was either super cold or super hot and it was being moved around, you know, because then you could maybe you could do, you know, big bioreactors full of organic chemistry processes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And bioreactor, actually now people are doing well. Well, I think they can do very complicated organic synthesis. But then you also need the bioreactor sized rotary evaporation, the bioreactor sized chromatography. Oh, yeah. Bioreactor sized for every, because if you want to do an identification to make sure it's correct for every single one of those. So you'd have to find a way to batch the whole thing for the proper molecular assembly to make sure that it was all right or and to get rid of the ones that were wrong, which would be, wow, that would be. Yeah. Yeah. But do you see that where the future is going in the big bioreactor direction for super molecular chemistry, for these organic synthesis? Yeah, I see the future, yes. That's possible. Yeah. But as what we are doing now, the lab experiments are totally different from the factory process. So, yeah. We're in the baby steps still. Yeah. Yeah. So, most of the synthesis you can do in the lab space, but to factory or if you go to an engineering area, that's impossible, maybe totally too expensive or something like that. For now, and this may change down the line, maybe. So then, okay, so if this turns out to be slightly wrong in some way, if it was, you look and it's the wrong super molecular assembly or if it's the slightly wrong compound that came out, then you need to go and change the variables in the organic synthesis process. Yeah. And try again. Yeah. And then you keep trying and trying until you get the right, okay. And then once you get the right one, then you also want to test the mechanical properties of what you got. So if you wanted to make a good host, you want to make sure that it can have the synthesis. Yeah. If that it can have the guest. Yeah. And then it can do what you want it to do. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, uh, mechanic properties are one possible, uh, one possibility. Yes. So normally, uh, we firstly made, we made the, made the target of a micro cycle. Then we used some, uh, spectroscopy to study the band D constant to different guests. Yeah. If you see, oh, this is a micro cycle, band D to band, band to, band to the gas molecular one, one specific gas, very strongly, then maybe you can separate this gas molecular specifically with this micro cycle. So that's what we call the purification. You can purify that. The gold, we can use the cycle dextrin to purify the gold out. Yeah. That's one major application area of our supermarket chemistry, I think. Yeah. Okay. So if, um, you get to this point where you're starting to increase the yields and you're starting to, um, make sure that the mechanical properties are being of great quality. It's actually working. Then let's talk about where exactly then this could be also deployed because, you know, you mentioned some of the things at the beginning and now that we have a good idea of the actual, you know, process of getting it there. I want you to teach us about the topological structure design. So you were explaining to me that you can have molecules that instead of having a covalent bond that holds them together, you can have a mechanic bond that holds them together like two rings. Yeah. Like this. Yeah. Exactly. And this is so interesting because we don't know if this is found in nature. Yeah. We don't know yet. We don't know yet if it's found. So this could be totally synthesized by us and it could be very powerful, a mechanical bond. Yeah. Mechanical bond. Yes. Actually, this people can already synthesize this very simple unit, two ring mechanically locked together. Yeah. But yes, this is a very basic mechanical boundary unit. Yeah. So we are going to design much more complicated topological polymer or topological nodes like you make a necklace. Yes. Necklace, molecular necklace. Molecular necklace is a multiple ring interact together to make a big ring. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And why would you make that? Why? Because this kind of mechanical bond has very unique properties because this ring and ring don't have covalent bond bands together. So between two rings don't have any strain. Yeah. And this is totally free. Totally free moving. Free moving. Yeah. So you can just, so this kind of, like you see the necklace is very smoothly changed the shape. It's so smooth. Yeah. So smooth. It can flow even. Yeah. Like liquid flow. Yeah. Because once if you, you know, you hold the string of chains and then if you just, you know, drop it down, it just goes. Yeah. It just falls perfectly into the little pile. Yeah. Actually, it's like the sugar, the, the, the, like the, the past then just, yeah, then. Yeah. Yeah. Like the chocolate maybe. Like the chocolate. Yeah, that swirl. It's liquid. It's some kind of similar to liquid. Liquid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the polymer is solid, right? So that's a very unique for solid materials. Where do you think that can be used? The mechanical knot in a necklace shape? This kind of, I think, or even also in a lattice, it can be made in the lattice. 2D. 2D lattice. 2D or 3D. Or 3D. Yeah. Or 3D. Where do you think those can be used? This can be used, I think, for example, the shape for, because these are bonded by a mechanic bond, the ring and ring, then don't have any strain energy. So sometimes if you use the ion to bind it to BT2 ring, then you will make the structure stronger because the ring, two reconnected together, then the structure is very strong. But after you remove this ion, then the whole 3D structure will become collapsed. Yeah. So the shape can change, the mechanic properties can change, and the capacity also can change. Yeah. So this could be important for like nanotechnology? Sure. Yeah. If I can very easily go from 3D lattice and then to tiny little, just collapse it. Yeah. Wow. That's true. Can it go back from the tiny? Yeah. That's what we call the shape memory material. Shape memory material. Yeah. Yeah. Shape memory. But how do you, you said, remove the ion? Yeah. For example, you can use the ion to motivate the property change. Yes. Yes. But I can reintroduce the ion. Yeah. And then it is, how would it just go shape memory back? Expand. Yes. Yeah. How do I reintroduce the ion? What would I have to do if I had an object that could go back and forth? How would I reintroduce the ion or take it away? If you take it away, normally you can use the extractor to take the, or just if the ion can be oxidized or neutralized, just use something to, if the band is stronger, then you can extract the ion out, then the structure will collapse or just neutralize the structure will collapse. Then you can put it again. Then, yeah. This is one kind of stimuli, but we can also use a like a pH value change, or yeah, or even just light, use light, because some molecules can change the shape, can change the conformation. Just in one conformation, maybe two recombined very strongly, then in another conformation, the ring can rotate very freely. So, through optical stimulation? Yes. Through light? Yes. Wow. Yeah. That's quite interesting. Yes. Also, it's possible. Yeah. Because with, when we talk about it for neuroscience, we say optogenetics, you know, for modulating neurology, maybe there's an opto-supermolecular chemistry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. An opto- we call it mechanical knots. Opto- photo-supermolecular chemistry? Photo-supermolecular chemistry. Supermolecular photochemistry. Supermolecular photochemistry. Yeah. Wow. Interesting. Yeah. Wow. And also, the nanotech potentially side effect too. Yes. Yes. So, supermolecular chemistry is a interdisciplinary chemistry. Supermolecular nanotech light. Multidisciplinary chemistry. It is. It's very multidisciplinary chemistry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's so multidisciplinary. Wow. Wow. Opto-supermolecular nanotech chemistry. Okay, but yeah. It's so funny adding the words to it. Okay. And I'm kind of envisioning a little bit like me being able to do something like down the line, being able to have really strong devices that can collapse down, fit in my pocket, and then for me to be able to take them back out and to bring them up in back into their lattice shape. Yeah. Yeah. And then to access what I need to do with it. Yeah. That's the possible, yes. That's a very cool thing. Yeah. Actually, this is the kind of, see, the one application of this kind of material is just for absorption, because when you don't want to absorb the energy, then the structure can be collapsed. But if you want to absorb it, they just expand, then you can absorb a lot of gas inside. Then if you want to squeeze the gas out, then just the structure collapsed, then all absorbs the wear. So the host can be expanded and hold the guest, and then when you're ready to release the guest, collapse it, and the guest is not, and then, yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Interesting. Yeah. So that could be really good for like drug delivery, targeted drug delivery. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. It could be very, very, you know, slightly bigger with the, with it and then deliver it. Actually, the stimuli-responsive materials, stimuli-responsive materials, stimuli-responsive materials. Yeah. So to light or to other stimuli, you could respond. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Interesting. Wow. Okay. Okay. And then you gave also, you telling me before we started this other example, which was the, you like the potential of the double helix super molecule. Yeah. I think that's really interesting too. You gave the example of the rings, but could it also be if it was the, the double helix intertwined all the way also as a lattice or as the, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then those have different properties. They have different applications because they'll have different strengths. Yeah. Different strengths, different mechanical properties. Yeah. Properties. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So different topological structure I think can make a very unique structure. So even with a very unique properties and the movements or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Unique movements too. Then you also, you know, we're talking about several times more, but these are all things that we have not found in nature. Everything that you're talking about with super molecular chemistry is designing things synthetically, organically that is not found in nature. At least not that we know. Yes. Yes. And so then we can do very novel unique things with health or agriculture or technology or any sort of advancement that we want to make because we can synthesize it. We can simulate it and synthesize it and we can bring it into our world at really big scales like bioreactors. Yes. And this, this can be very impactful. You were also giving me other examples too before we started porphyrin. Porphyrin, yes. Porphyrin was one of the examples. Yes. Okay. Porphyrin, that helps us carry oxygen. It's like, it's like hemoglobin. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's like hemoglobin. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then, so that can be something that helps us with our health. And then other ones are like photovoltaics. Photovoltaics, yes. Is another one. Yeah. Also photosynthesis. Also photosynthesis. Yeah, implant. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So we can maybe have, you know, the like some of our buildings and more of our things, we can have more of our things potentially get energy from light. Yeah. Get energy. So that's why photovoltaics, so, you know, it's developed a lot. Yes. Yeah. So, so super molecular chemistry could make photovoltaics more efficient. Yeah. It can make them better at receiving energy from the sun. Yeah. I think it's possible. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's possible to make it where well-organized. Yeah. Yeah. Make the time molecules well-organized in the device. I think it's one way to enhance efficiency. Yeah. Yeah. So you can highly efficiently connect the energy from light and then convert it to electricity. Yeah. Yeah. So Wow. There's so many interesting applications and so interesting also learning about how it's actually done the steps of super molecular chemistry about how it's done. It's really good to learn about the steps from you. All right. Let's ask about the meaning of life. What do you think this big human experience is about? What's the purpose? The meaning of life. I think the meaning of life is this question is very big. But my question and my answer is the the knife is used for giving and not taking I think. Yeah. Yeah. Just for giving like yeah. I think we already got a lot from nature. So we just have to give you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. The meaning of life. Yes. I like that. We've gotten a lot from nature. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How can we inspire more people around the world to work together? I think people have to love each other. Then they think about other people small and like President Kennedy said, ask what you can do for the country and don't ask what the country can do for you. I think that will make people work together and yeah. Think about other people don't be selfish. I think yeah. Work together I think is a very good way because I think one person always has a huge limit. I think even you are huge, you are greatest scientist. I think the limit is obvious. Yeah. Yeah. I think no people should think himself or smart people are greatest person. I think people should be yeah. Always know himself or very clear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really like that quote a lot about what can you do for your world? What can you do for our world? Not what can the world do for you? I like that a lot. That's a really good one and know yourself and an increased collaboration around the world. Yeah. Yeah. What about a skill that young people can know going into the exponential technology age? For young people I think people should work hard and maybe you are not smart enough but you can just work hard and you will always keep a learning attitude. Yeah. Always keep learning. Yeah. Like people or if you are poor but I think if you always work hard you can make your reach in spirit or this. Either way you can get one. Yeah. Yeah. Just work hard and keep learning. I think no other straight or direct way to bypass this I think you always have to like something like no pain, no gain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. What do you think your industry, super molecular chemistry, what do you think it's going to look like in 50 or 100 years? What would be the ideal tool, the best possible tool for your industry in 50 or 100 years? What would that look like, that tool? Yeah. Okay. In industry in 50 or 100 years I think the tool, I think almost no people work there. Yeah. All machines can do everything. People just enjoying to, but I think AI in some areas, I think in the next few years maybe become a threat to human being AI. Yeah. I think if some people use AI not correctly, they will make the able machine to fight with the human being. Yeah. Yeah. This is very important. We were talking about the power of all of the permutation capability for creativity and even something like super molecular chemistry. We wouldn't have thought that we could simulate out billions of potential molecular designs and then go through the synthesis process and see if it comes out well and make it in bioreactors. Could it be that 100 years down the line that a super intelligence can do all of that? Yeah. But also if we get these powers, can we be smart enough to not hurt ourselves? Yeah. Yeah. Interpret each other. Yeah. Smart enough, kind enough, I think. Loving enough. Yeah. Not enough. Yeah. This leads me into the next question. What do you think is the role of love in our world? I think the most important role in our life, in our world, people should love each other always. Even your enemy, you should love him. Yeah. Yeah. Don't hate anyone. Just love them and understand them and help them to love you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking so much of simulations. Yeah. Do you think this reality is a simulation? This reality, this, I don't think this is a simulation. This is real. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think is the most beautiful thing in the world? Most beautiful thing. Most beautiful thing. Most beautiful thing. I think it is a harmonious society, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Why did you say that? Because I want to see people are very nice and everything goes very smooth. Yeah. You just look everywhere, no kidding, no any bad things happen. I think that's the most beautiful thing. Yeah. A harmonious society. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for this episode. Thank you. Thank you for talking to us. You're welcome. For coming on our show and teaching us about your work. No. No. Really good. My pleasure. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everyone for tuning in. We greatly appreciate it. We'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below on the episode. Let us know what you're thinking. Have more conversations with your friends, families, coworkers, people online about super molecular chemistry, about the way that we can do things like make new fundamental advancements in this field to design new molecules that aren't found in nature, to do these processes of organic synthesis, to purify, and for us to be able to design new topological structures as well. Have more conversations about that. Also, check out the links in the bio below to Zicheng's lab, also to his papers, to his Twitter, to his LinkedIn, to his work, and reach out to collaborate as well. Also, support the artists, the entrepreneurs, the organizations, the leaders around the world that you believe in in your community. Support them. Support us, simulations so we can continue doing cool things like coming on site to Westlake University and interviewing some of the smartest people here. Support us and go and build the future, everyone. Manifest your dreams into the world. We love you very much. Thank you for tuning in and we will see you soon. Peace. That was awesome. Thank you. That was awesome. I mind so blown about super molecular chemistry and just how hard it is to, you know, that was so interesting. I didn't ask you about that before we started. Retro-synthetical analysis. How cool is that too? Wow.