 Welcome everybody to another episode of the nonprofit show. We're really excited today because we get to talk with Ruth Grayson coming to us from Southern California and she's going to be talking to us about charity live streams. I think everybody realizes that a lot of changes happened because of the pandemic and one of those was this concept of like how do we reach out and just because the pandemic is supposedly over doesn't mean that everything is now back as it was. So we're going to really engage with Ruth today to find out what she's seeing and how does the benefit auction work now in this new ecosystem and so Ruth we are thrilled to have you with us to learn and to get your amazing expertise on this. So it's going to be worth your time today because it's a really important changing topic and again if we haven't met before I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. Jared Ransom, the nonprofit nerd and my trusty co-host will be rejoining us shortly. Again we're here today because we have amazing partners such as Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Your Part Time Controller, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd and Nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the folks that join us day in and day out. I was sharing with Ruth you know that in the next couple days we will officially hit our 800th episode. I can't even say that Ruth which is like stunning to me because I think 800 of anything is a lot. Oh yeah amazing. It's kind of like wow but anyway these folks most of them have been with us from the very beginning when we had this kooky idea to do the nation's only daily broadcast dedicated to the nonprofit sector. So our gratitude goes out to them. We are also on a couple different portals and processes and places where you can find us from streaming to podcasts but now the super cool app that our team at the American Nonprofit Academy has worked so hard on. You can take a quick scan of this QR code if you're watching the archive or watching us live through video and we will get you signed up for a daily push that lets you know what we talked about today. It's a really super tool because it connects you with where you are at that point in time and it will also help you search if you need some help on a specific topic. So check out the new nonprofit show app. Okay Ruth I've gotten through my housekeeping. I'd like to say welcome to you my new friend. Thank you I am so excited to be here and I just want to say I am a huge fan of your podcast. I think what you and Jared are doing by sharing knowledge and by showing curiosity about all things nonprofit is just a really awesome thing for our industry. So thank you. Thank you. You know Ruth it's a fascinating thing. I learn something new every day and I get energized every day. Every day I'm like wow this marketplace is doing amazing cool things and we are innovating and we are taking risks and we're being creative and looking at solutions in a different way. And one of those things has to be within the auction segment. Auctions have been dare I say such a mysterious thing. I mean we've all been through like fabulous auction environments and experiences and awful auction experiences. And then we throw all of this up in the air and we have to do it in a streaming format. So talk to us about your journey not a lot of female auctioneers. I'll say that right out the gate. Talk to us about how you've navigated this and how you continue to navigate this. Sure. So you're right there's not that many of us out there though our ranks are swelling and I meet really wonderful women auctioneers all the time. So I definitely recommend your nonprofit see who is out there in their market. They may be surprised by the wonderful talent that is available to them. I joined the auction industry and the fundraising industry industry through my partner Michael who is a third generation auctioneer his grandpa sold cars so did his dad. He started in cars but moved into benefits and just loves it. And after a few years of dating I realized hey what you're doing I could do that too. I think I could be great at it. And he was been he's been very supportive. And so we have our business together bliss auctions. And our goal is to decrease the amount of stress that Gallup planners feel because it's a whole ball of stress and anything we can do to minimize that. That's what we're aiming to do. I love it. Well you know I will profess to you and all our viewers. I have a secret I have two secret desires in my life and one has passed me by. I always wanted to learn how to slide into second base which now I will never be able to do because of my age. But my other has been to learn how to do auction calling because I think I think it's fascinating. Let's dive into our conversation. Yes. And let's have you explain to us what this this nomenclature of charity stream actually means. Sure. So one thing that we are seeing is that there is actually a really wonderful way for nonprofits to lean on their supporters to fundraise on their behalf. A really wonderful peer to peer grassroots strategy. And that is through live streams. Now live streams like what we're doing right now. Sometimes they're podcasts. Oftentimes folks who are live streaming are playing video games or cooking or making arts and crafts, whatever their activity. People watch them do it for hours on end. And this is actually what a lot of younger folks are doing. One of the most popular platforms for doing it is Twitch and they have over 250 million people watching and over 7 million people streaming. And so that's a lot of people creating content constantly and you know how hard it is to keep the content machine going. So one of the things that streamers like to do is raise money for causes that they care about. And in doing so they're having a fun stream, they're talking about the nonprofit's mission and then they're getting their viewers to donate. And by doing that they're kind of reaching those younger donors, the 16 to 34s, and they are leveraging the relationship that the streamer has with their viewer. So it's a really, really powerful way to go about fundraising. So let's talk about this a little bit more specifically in terms of that age demographic because this is one of the conversations that we hear all the time. And I know you do as well is that we have this like schism between the older perceived more wealthy donor and then that younger maybe more engaged donor or potentially financially engaged in the future donor. So where do we marry those two sometimes polarized demographics in this ecosystem? What does that look like to you? That's a great question. So I think that these charity streams are primarily targeted at younger donors donors who might not necessarily be interested in attending your Gallup and having your rubber chicken, but still want to support. I do think that there's the potential for transitioning those folks to eventually be ready for a more Gallup level of support, but by getting to them while they're still young, while they have some income, but not a lot. You start to get them invested in your mission and supporting you, and then you can steward them into a more significant donor as they age and as their own income grows. So what I hear you saying then is that maybe this is like a form of if you will segmenting your donor population and not just saying it's all or nothing. Is that a fair statement to say, look, we're going to do something for this one opportunity, this one bucket of people where we might have different opportunities. Is that fair to say? I think it is. I think definitely so. I think you might have a harder time getting your over 50, over 60 people to want to sit down in front of a screen and watch someone make art for three hours, but you won't have as hard a time getting someone who's 25 to do that. And so I think by providing ways to donate and ways to support for your different segments of donors, I think you do stand a better chance of diversifying your donor base and then ensuring your longevity over time. Yeah, it's really interesting conversation because it's more than just this one opportunity or fundraising, but we are here to talk about fundraising and we are trying to figure out how to look at this segment. Talk to us about what this action like physically looks like when we have when we're using this this vehicle the streaming vehicle. So one way that nonprofits are using this is they just make themselves available for streamers to fund raise for them. And then the streamer does it all on their own they produce their own content they set up their own rewards and their own milestones. And all they really ask from the nonprofit is that you know, keep doing what you're doing I'm going to fund raise for you. But some nonprofits do choose to take a more active approach. And you do find some streamers starting to stray into wanting to create a more gala like experience where they might have auction features. We see a lot of giveaways. We're starting to see some options. And I think the reason you don't see them as much in the charity live stream space is simply because the technology isn't quite there yet. The main platforms that the streamers are using to fundraise, like Tiltify, like event gives, they don't have a an auction function. So the streamers are getting savvy they're using their chatbots, and they're kind of creating a workaround, but because it isn't readily available we're not seeing it that much yet. What we see when they do their own auctions is that they're often auctioning off personal items, which, again, their viewers are relating to them so they love the idea of buying the sweater that their favorite streamer war when they got engaged or something like that. Whereas obviously with regular auctions it's all about the experiences and the trips and, you know, the good stuff so. Yeah, really interesting. So what would and I know this is like a super broad question, but what would would be the amount of engagement that you could expect. I know when you start off one time that's, you know, one thing but what do some of these engagements look like from what you what you've seen in terms of numbers. Sure, so that it really depends on the nonprofit and the approach that they take if they take a more passive approach and they just make themselves available for streamers without heavily recruiting streamers and trying to get them to fundraise on their behalf. Then you, you'll see some engagement but it won't grow quickly and it will, it will be kind of a slow growth situation. I do think that by being a bit more proactive by going after specific streamers or demographics of streamers creative ones gaming ones what have you, then you will find it much more much more engagement. It really depends also on the streamer themselves. Some streamers are really highly engaged with their community that's how they get them to stick around for hours on end. And I will say that when nonprofits want to get into this, never underestimate a smaller streamer. Initially you might think this is just like a gala I need to attract big name talent in order to have the effect that I want. And in reality, the smaller and midsize streamers have stronger relationships with their viewers, and that's what you're leveraging that relationship there. So by focusing on those smaller and mid tier streamers and then having an aggregate of them fundraising for you that's how you really get your messaging out there and start racking up the new donors. Right. Do you think that I know that for so often, you know, we were like, okay, if we can get a blogger to talk about us, okay, then it moved. If we can get an influencer to, to champion what we're doing through their, you know, socials. Now we're looking at streamers, and we're understanding that that this is kind of a journey that the technology and the personalities are taken. How incumbent is it upon us in the nonprofit sector to search out somebody that was going to be a good fit? I think I think it's definitely incumbent on the nonprofit to be actively looking for streamers or streamer demographics that are going to be a good fit. I don't think it necessarily needs to be a one to one. I don't think if you, for example, if you're an animal group, you don't only need streamers who are streaming animal stuff. You could get a video gamer or an artist or someone like that. I really think that the key is diversifying. And I think it's also just being aware of the shifting trends, being aware of what streamers are interested in and how to reach them. And that is, that's a key sign for success for nonprofits wanting to get into this space. Do you feel like right now with the demographics of streamers that there are certain topics or certain, if you will, sectors within the nonprofit sector as a whole that are, you know, more engaging? So for example, I mean, and again, not to be prejudiced, but like, you know, an opera company, are they going to get as much interest as let's say a children's museum? Probably not. I would think maybe I'm wrong, but set me straight on this. Like, what is that ecosystem looking like in terms of interest? Sure. Well, so the great thing about things like Twitch and about live streaming is that there's a niche for everybody. So if you are into opera, there are definitely musicians on Twitch, and not all of them are doing opera, but they can definitely support a musical theme nonprofit. And so I think there's something for everybody out there, definitely, definitely. Yeah. And you know, I love your answer to because so often in fundraising, we come to the table with preconceived notions, just like my opera example. And then we don't lean in because we're like, oh, no, that's never going to work. And then we shut ourselves off to opportunity. Right. This is definitely an opportunity I think all nonprofits should be looking at definitely just by making yourself available just by signing up with one of these sites that the streamers are using to fundraise will, I think, open a lot of doors. I think another great thing that nonprofits can do, even if they want the passive approach is put something on your website, just like you have that donate button up there at the top above the scroll. On your support page, have something that says, are you a live streamer? Would you like to support us? Click here and it'll take them to the page where they can create their own campaign and just go from there. So let's dig a little deeper because you did kind of mention this proactive versus passive help us to really understand what this looks like so that when we engage in this concept. We have a better understanding of the foundational approach to this. Definitely. So the passive route is one that I think every nonprofit out there should consider taking, because literally all you have to do is sign up for a free account on a site like Tiltify, Streamlabs, Twitch is another example but Tiltify is the one that most streamers are using at this time. And then put it out there, put it on your social media, put it in your email newsletter, reach out to your supporters and say, hey, if any of you are a live streamer or if you know any live streamers, you can support us. Here's how. And that's it. Just sit back and let it happen. That's the passive approach. A more proactive approach would be having someone on your staff like a charity stream manager whose job it is to go out there and recruit specific streamers and specific demographics of streamers and then also support them around a specific campaign that you might create. So a great example is last year during the invasion of Ukraine, Project Hope mobilized a ton of streamers and raised over a million dollars in, I think it was about two months for their humanitarian efforts there. So, yeah. Yeah. That's a great example because it was incredibly short. It was, yeah, and super successful. Really, really interesting. So then this leads to the next big question because for a lot of people that have joined us today that have been listening to this, this will be a new concept. And how best do we look at this? I mean, do we find somebody in our team who we think is young enough to be engaged and engaging or do we contract out? And if we do that, what does this look like? So that's a great question. I think if your goal is to take a more passive approach, then you can definitely manage this internally and you could probably between your social media person and your finance person who's going to be on the Tiltify and or on the platform and making sure that all your ducks are in a row and you can receive your payments. Between those two, they should be able to handle it. If you wanted to take a more proactive approach, which I do recommend, then hiring someone from within your team would be great. You can definitely start asking around any of you, any of you interns, any of you, under 50s really. I mean, I'm in my 40s and I'm involved in live streams. So it's not just the kids, but definitely asking the younger folks like, hey, do you have any experience in this? And getting them going. So some things that they want to do, they want to be sure to be working with the social media manager and having campaigns go out to recruit streamers. And of course, once streamers start fundraising for you, supporting them, liking them, resharing their promotional posts, because it's just more marketing for you. And then also they'll want to work with the graphic designer streamers use a lot of graphic assets like overlays and logos and that sort of thing. So if the nonprofit can provide branded things to the streamers that helps create a unified look makes it all more seamless. And the more the streamer feels supported, the more confident they can be, and the more likely that they will fundraise for you again in the future. Studies have shown that once a streamer does a fundraiser, they are very likely to do it again. And ideally you've positioned yourself to be the one that they fundraise for every time. You know, I love that because I think that is the secret to sauce to so many engagement pieces is that having that collateral those assets that you can turn over. Also, it keeps your branding message and your branding promise more pure because it's frightening to hand over control to third party fundraising where a message might get mixed up, or a brand isn't, you know, color specific or the logo gets shifted or, you know, this the messaging gets all jacked up and then you're like, you know, that's not really what we wanted to communicate. Right. Or the fundraising is, I don't want to say disingenuous, but it's not really aligned to what the organization is doing. Nor does it really cultivate future donors. It's just more like a one off. Right. So I love that you said, yeah, said that. Yeah, the assets are just so, so important. Talking points, videos, whatever. Streamers love to have that. Yeah, I think it's really smart. You know, before I let you go, and this is like that, get out your crystal ball, shine it up for me. Well, how do you see this? Yeah, you're like a Karnak. How do you see this going? Like what's the future? What's the timeframe on this? Is this going to grow? Is this on the downside? What the technology is changing? What? I think it's definitely going to grow. I mean, who knows where we'll be in a few years, what the kids will be into at that point. Obviously the older I get, the less I feel like I know what the kids are into. But I try. But so the statistics are currently that live streaming is expected to grow 15 times this year, just in 2023. So it's only going up. And of those 7 million streamers on Twitch, only a small slice of them are doing these charity streams consistently. There is a large pool of content creators out there who could be ambassadors for your mission. And I think it's only going to grow from here, definitely. And what I'm hoping to see is that we do eventually find a way to bridge that gap where we get some of these streamers maybe to come to our gala and stream a portion of the gala to their viewers, and viewers excited about the idea of going to one of them and also getting their feedback as far as storytelling and messaging, because at their heart, these are very creative people know how to make fun and engaging content. And so I think there could be a lot of two ways street helping each other out there. Yeah, you can see if you're a streamer and you have a passion or a niche for a certain topic, there can just be some amazing collaborations out there. It's amazing. And so it's really about finding that fit and then nurturing that fit, just like we do donors, you know, we want a one time thing. I mean, we want to get people to be familiar with us to be champions. And you use that word that I love Ruth, you know, ambassadors, we want to cultivate that, you know, as part of our journey. And I think it's a really wonderful fit. And I agree with you. I think it's smart to be thinking about that next gen wave of donors. Their behaviors and their desires are not the same as previous donor generations. So we need to be thinking about this. It's not the same. Yep, I agree. I agree. We have found that the younger generations are wary about institutions, they're skeptical, but they believe in their streamer, they have an authentic connection with their streamer. And so if the streamer says, hey, you should donate to the Trevor Project because they're out there doing great work, then the donations come in. Yeah, I love it. Well, this has really been an enlightening conversation. I know for a lot of our viewers, you know, you see auctions and you see Ruth's title as benefit auctioneer. And we have this like viewpoint in our head of what's great and what's not great. And to layer in this new concept I think is really engaging and really interesting. Before we let you go, Ruth Grayson of Bliss Auctions, can you briefly give us the names of some of those platforms like Twitch that you gave us earlier? Yes, definitely. So the platforms that folks are streaming to, you've got Twitch, YouTube live, Instagram and Facebook, TikTok, LinkedIn even has streaming. Don't forget about eSports. That's a whole side conversation when it comes to streaming. I think there's a lot of potential there for collaborations. And then the fundraising platforms that streamers are using are Tiltify. That's the biggest one. Then you also see some on Skip Butter, Donor Drive. I had one more. Soft Giving. That's it. Soft Giving is another one. So yeah. It's been amazing. You know, check out Ruth at Bliss Auctions.com. She's got a great website that gives you a lot of really insight into how this piece of our fundraising is changing and how it doesn't always have to be the same thing that we can do innovative pieces of it. And I really like, Ruth, that you're speaking to this concept of really understanding the different segmenting that we need to be thinking about. Not all fundraising works for everyone. And the more we can understand that diversification aspect, I think the stronger our nonprofits and our entire sector is going to be. So I love how you joined us today and given us this information. Again, I'm Julia Patrick Jarrett-Ranson. The Nonprofit Nerd will be back with us shortly. And again, we want to make sure that we give our gratitude to our presenting sponsors that include Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Your Part-Time Controller, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd, and Nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the folks that join us day in and day out with amazing guests like Ruth has been with us today. Okay, Ruth, you really painted a new picture for me. I really want to be more engaged in this concept because I think to your point, this is a major communication journey that we're going down. And those nonprofits that jump in and understand this connective tissue, if you will, with this next generation of donors, they're going to be a lot more successful. I agree. I agree. Thank you so much for having me, Julia. Oh my gosh. You're great. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. It's been really fast. And everybody, as we always like to end every episode, we end with our mantra. And it goes like this, to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here. Ruth, thank you so much.