 All right, it's all true tonight pretty quiet pretty quiet Sat the lake Didn't do much of anything. Nope. I've got a kayak No, not gonna get away with it Not to speak of usually to stay at home type I'm all done here When I get to the point of doing this I got plenty of time a big thing is getting that terror deck alive thing set up That's the big deal That's that set up It's easy I've never been there. Well, it was like that here for for a few years, but unfortunately the The wireless just didn't work very well. That's why we went back to this here So now the only problem is feedback Well, I try to do everything as slowly as possible. I try not to go quickly up or down in volume No I Well I can take care whatever you guys do I can adjust Our upcoming primary election forums Get some at the library I I I I Raise Yeah, I don't know if they're doing something at the meeting Yeah, city hall for we will let the committee itself Kind of to them they're all residents part of the film what to do. I'm sure they'll do something. Yeah, I'm sure Kathy and I Okay So I would like to call to order the South Burlington City Council meeting of Monday, July 16th 2018 We'll begin with the Pledge of Allegiance Item two is an Instructions on exiting the building in case of emergency if we have an emergency this evening Everybody, please leave by one of these two doors Proceed directly out into the parking lot to the south and gather there If that is not available go back out the main entrance That you came in and out the front of the city hall and around to the parking lot behind us Tom Hubbard and I will be responsible for making sure the building is cleared So do not hesitate if an emergency is declared Thank you Item three is the agenda review. Are there any additions deletions or changes in order of agenda items? Dave Dave asked Councillor Kaufman asked when I spoke with him today if the discussion of item 13 The discussion about the exit 14 pedestrian bicycle crossing could be moved Ahead on the agenda Okay So we're not sure where you would put that but Well, we probably can't put it in front of eight because that's the public hearing perhaps right next next Okay There are no problems with that we will move Item 13 and make it 8b Already, so we'll move on to item 4 which is a possible executive session to discuss a real estate transaction For which the city is a party And to include Tom Hubbard Kevin Dorn Alana Blanchard and Holly Reese What and Jennifer? Is there a second second okay all in favor signify by saying aye aye So we have this scheduled for About ten minutes. No, I'm sorry excuse me Kevin. Can we add Paul to all Connor and Paul Connor? That's a friendly amendment, but that we all agree to okay, so this will take about half an hour All right Yes Meeting of Monday July 16th 2018, I'm sorry we went a little late or over There's a lot happening Keeps us on our toes Oh, you're gonna call Dave so So the next item item 5 comments and questions from the public not related to the agenda My name is Kevin Donahue, I live at Pinnacle Drive And I'm here tonight to ask the city council to look into the stormwater utility and Just as brief as I can be So I remember when it was voted in The way it was voted in is that if Your retention points and your development were brought up to the 2002 standard of the best effort that you could make to get it to that stand The city would then take over Maintenance Well at the time we were in a battle with the log and my lot partnership Pinnacle development over who actually had responsibility for those points and we argue The association I was president at the time that the lock and my lot partnership Was the only one recognized by the state to have ownership of those retention points After I got off the board the board that succeeded me went into something You know, they were just about to go cord over the thing in an arbitration Took ownership of the retention points Hold on In the stormwater So It will be here in a second day I think we're good Okay So So the utility would take over the maintenance of the ponds We we didn't do anything with them lock and didn't do anything with them and in 2000. I think it was 16 Association finally took them over had been working with ton de petro in upgrading them And to make a long story short in our annual meeting this year Tom and David Wheeler I think a young lady were at our meeting explaining the $650,000 bill that is going to be required to bring them up to the 2017 standard which has been adopted by the agency of natural resources and I questioned at the meeting why the utility is not taking them over At the 2002 stand even though the state is now hoping for everybody to do a 2017 stand and He said that's just what you know, they're going by now and I am just questioning the legality that I Believe the voters and I don't know whether I would use the charter that the utility is based on The voice that they would take those ponds over at the 2002 standard all the best effort you could get to it and I I feel that pinnacle is being forced to this 2017 standard When it really shouldn't have to be it should be if in other words instead of 650 if Pinnacles can figure out what the 2002 standard is bring it up to that the city of South girl and then the utility should Take those ponds over at that if they want to go the extra mile For the environment to bring them to the 2017 standard so be it that's really on the city Now there was a $300,000 grant that was involved in their I think city if I'm not sure to see councils aware is kicking in another 50,000 bringing our responsibility down To do I think what it was about 250 if but the figure isn't fine About 20 it's they're going to be about $2,500 per household that they figure in there so I just wanted to Get the city council to see if you can't Get the city attorney to see what what went on here. Why? I'm just not out of development, but maybe others in South Burlington. It would be having to get to this set 2017 standard when I Don't believe the utility really has the authority to require that under How we would vote it in by the residents of the city. That's about it. Isn't that showing? All right Well, I asked the current board and Tom at the meeting of our annual meeting what what was that? Figure and they hadn't even looked at it So, you know, it could be a hundred thousand could be 200,000 On some work was done, I think last year After we took them over nothing was really done to them other than to make sure I know there was one One pipe that clogged one time and flooded one person's house. So that was always looked into just By residents to say make sure that pipe pipe doesn't clog again I just have a question to So if their responsibility might be $2,500, is that like the one time you read the check one year or is it Percentage that's collected quarterly over ten years. I think we're paying it in three installments I'm just curious. I don't because I don't within the development Yes, please Justin rapidly public works department try to quit since this is just public comment. Yes, we offer a variety of options to homeowners We have we lay out five ten fifteen year planes at various interest rates We also have the ability like we did with Butler Farm Oak Creek to ask the voters to authorize a special assessment district In which it's added to just those that geographical region storm order though We basically our option is flexibility And we work with the homeowner association as we have successfully on dozens of projects The terms of repayment have always been generally dictated by the association that we work with All right My my reason for being here isn't really whether it's oh, I understand the thing about it's 2,500 25,000 or two dollars It's it's what what is the utilities? Responsibility is the 2002 standard they should take them over as they were voted in That's all That was more for We'll have a response the manager on this tomorrow. It's pretty self-evident but not to get into it now, but we'll have a response Thank you. Well, I have Justin here for two seconds. It's all a pinnacle getting paid And I have to consult I didn't come prepared for that topic Again, I'll convey that to the manager as well. Thank you. Thank you very much Yes, hello, I'm Mark Benton. This is Laura Nase. We're both South Wellington residents Mark We're just here hoping to get Something on the agenda for a future meeting preferably the next one or the one after that So we'll be here for that long But we just wanted to have a talk with you and do some follow-up Concerning the 2017 Climate Coalition pledge Which you approved of course last year. Thank you for that by the way and also concerning the 2014 Resolution for energy efficiency and tracking and reporting municipal energy consumption so you would like us to have that as a Agenda item and have the energy committee and I think I think it all I think it I think we have that scheduled for the second meeting in In September There are people gone for the August meeting So I think it's the I think it's the second Second meeting in September Be the third Monday in September Which would like us to have probably done more action on both of them? Yeah At least would like to know what it's we're you know, where's the annual efficiency report and is there a plan? That would be 70, you know, it would be very hopeful if you would potentially email us those questions that you're like answer absolutely in you know soon and then we can Include them in the presentation Unfortunately, I won't be there for September Well, I can watch this on tape So I'm sorry, okay Well, I think it was a similar kind of update Understanding where we are going Energy efficiency, and you know, I think that reporting it's it's important to the council and I think Asking for that so maybe we need a little more structure Okay, thank you Are there any in between things here and Kevin can you hear me? Yes? Because I can't you all whoever's thinking is probably sitting at that table talking directly into the microphone I can hear that pretty well, but when you all speak it sounds like you're literally on the other side of the world I can hardly hear a word that's being said Yeah, we'll speak right into the mic is that better much better. Oh, that's a whole lot better. Okay. I'm sorry about that No, I've been where you are it is tough. Are there any other comments or questions from the audience? Not on the agenda All right Yeah, so I think we're going to skip down to number eight the public hearing and Possible action related to the adoption of amendments to the South Brooklyn land development regulations, and I think Jessica Louisa from planning commission Yes All in favor Yes, yes, you may vote please do Okay, so we are in public session on the Adoption of the amendments to the LDR so So Paul I'll just start very briefly Paul Connor director planning and zoning here with Jessica Louisa's chair of the planning commission as I had Noted to you in June. We've got a set of amendments that include five of them I'll let Jessica go through them, but if at the end of this We recommend that you See invite any public comment Afterwards you can close the public hearing and if you're ready, I can take action two quick notes one is that staff did not receive any additional comments beyond what you've already heard and two you had made a minor change to the To the amendments back at your June 26 meeting Understate law that goes to the planning commission to then update the report My commission updated the port and Comfortable Thank you, would you like Jessica to go through? Yes, please Sure, so first thing is to modify the landscape performance bonding requirements, and this is something that Would not change the actual requirements for the landscaping or the requirement that It's actually guaranteed by the landowner for the same amount of time What it does is it's just the bond for very small projects less than $2,000 would be eliminated People found that there were just it was very difficult to get a small bond and it just became kind of a hurdle It was difficult for staff and for applicants So that's kind of a technicality We felt comfortable with that Next thing Oh And if that large and making them only have to bond for half of the amount above $10,000 Because we've just not seen all Landscaping died even if it were to as Jessica said they still have the responsibility to maintain So it's just a little bit of removing the financial burden So the next things were a few things in city center form-based code just in the t4 district So one of the things was to permit buildings up to five stories in height We had in a previous amendment allowed for that height along Shelbourne Road and a little spot on Williston Road You know in the areas of the town or the city where we've identified that we really want growth to be and it just made sense that in that district Where we also want growth in city center We would allow that without You know hoops having to be jumped through so that's made sense to us Also to establish a little bit of a gateway area at the corner of Dorset Street and Williston Road This is also similar to some of the things that we had done along Shelbourne Road with some corner standards Really trying to have like a nice corner presence with some architectural features and the corners of buildings And To modify upper-story glazing requirements, so that was about the the setback there was some Some people were having trouble with Having the glass be set back a certain distance from the front of the building So it didn't always work with all architectures It's Types so that's just kind of a tweak You know we have committed to really making the form-based code area work And we had tried some things there and that was one of the things that people are having some trouble always meeting Next thing was to Was around the inner-state highway overlay district ramp setbacks The ramp setbacks were actually quite large and A property owner near one of the ramps came in having some trouble Kind of with their site layout kind of pointed out that the the ramps actually had quite a large setback That didn't really make sense With kind of the rest of the highway overlays so It did also didn't allow for Things like the parking lot to be located in that area So after talking about it for a while it made sense to us that having things like parking lots Kind of in that zone made more sense But we wanted to make sure that we weren't going to have residential uses any closer to the highway or the ramps See just anything in there So then One of the things we're pretty excited about with the work that we've done in city center and Really looking at walkable neighborhoods is the idea of Actually having a little bit of mixed use in some of our districts that might not have allowed that in the past So There's a list here of a few different zoning districts that are for our seven our seven and see our 12 Seq and our seq and our n and seq we are so those have been primarily Residential districts and what we're proposing is to have a small amount of commercial with some Limitations on sizes and the types in those you know The idea is that you could have like a small corner store or an ice cream place kind of similar to what you're seeing in like Maybe like the airport deli or Down at the Chittin Cider mill you know something kind of a smaller scale where people in those neighborhoods could really walk to places like that We got a lot of feedback through the whole form-based co-process that a lot of people even outside city center liked the idea of their Neighborhoods having things like this. So this is kind of catching up with that and we had had a specific request from the South Village on that as well so Let's see and you enumerate the uses and yes, and there's some pretty strict Parameters under which this is allowed and so it needs to be a master plan community meaning that it has a dr v approval as a master plan it needs to be at least fit 50 dwelling units So it can't be just a little master plan of four where they put a commercial building and it really is designed as part of a neighborhood Um So the other one Eliminate the bill to standards for non-right. Do you want to describe this one? Yeah, so that's just a little a little cleanup in the Related to the one that was just talked about The Southeast Quadrant Village commercial district the design standards there Call for the building with the commercial buildings to be very close to the street The planning commission felt that there may be circumstances where it doesn't make sense For example in South Village having it be more than 15 or 20 feet from Spear Street might make sense That's really close to Spear Street. And so they wanted to give the DRB a little more facility in there So the standard of generally relating to the street stays But the hard number of saying it must be no more than 15 to 20 feet back from the street was removed And that so that would apply in these commercial ones along Dorset Street near the no market in Daly and over by Rye associates where I believe that the board had already wrestled with that with that one when that was approved and they are meeting the 15 to 20, but it's on the inner street not 116 in that case So does that give the DRB some flexibility, but also enough clear parameters so We don't end up in court over Different proposals Yes, I mean that's the balance right so there's the the the the new standard that Both the new standard that Applies and all the rest of the design standards that apply to the commercial still speak to the overall relationship to the street Having a maximum of 15 to 20 feet Is is it's a pretty tight standard and it works well for certain residential uses and and it could work in historic village But 116 spear Street aren't really historic villages And so I think it meets the standard and needs the needs of our community a little better And then the other changes are just small technical things that aren't policy changes like typos and such things Are there questions just one question Why did we do we have a gateway architectural district for the west side of exit 14 the staples plaza And is there any restrictions there because that's a gateway to burlington in a way, but we don't have The form-based code standards now apply to all those properties. And so there are Material standards. There's a mount of windows. There's a frequency of doors There's the rooftops need to have certain standards. So there is It's some of our stronger ones And they're newly added as of 2016 This gateway is is a little half step above that of speaking of Two specific intersections. So the intersection of dorses street and williston road How they relate to that corner? So that doesn't apply here, but it does apply along the major intersections on shelburn road now So it doesn't apply in front of staples, but there isn't really an intersection so much there yet It's something the commission could certainly look into And so it's not retroactive though. So the gas station isn't gonna have anything unless they Go belly up and it becomes something else Or if they decided to Redevelop it into something much much bigger and better, which is possible but probably not in the near future And then just to remind me the um Let me call it the Landscaping On those corners. Is that part of this or is that more? the Route two or whatever it is Uh, that will nothing in these in this set of amendments affects any of the landscaping. Um, I Uh, I think I've heard a question or two about the landscaping at that intersection. Yeah, I'd be happy to have a conversation with our Uh, they don't even mow it or weed it or something It's a far cry from what was approved by the drb in terms of the pictures that were given to us, right? It's a disaster for landscaping But I thought it was partly in response to or it wasn't done because of the um, all the state improvements along that road Why don't we look into that and we'll get back to the city man because it really is an eyesore. Yeah, absolutely I mean the building's okay I mean, it's an okay pharmacy, right? You try we try you try We'll get back to you on that Yeah, all right Are there any other questions david do you have any? Okay All right, are there any comments from the public Seeing none I'll close the public hearing second All in favor Okay, so now we need a motion to approve as amended. I moved that we adopt the adopt proposed So to continue to do the the motion was to approve the proposed land development regulation changes as presented by the Planning is zoning director of planning and zoning and the chair of the planning commission Recommend like a black immersion language is adopted. It doesn't matter. Did I say adopt? You said approve. Oh, okay. Adopt is adopted. All right. It's seconded and it's been seconded Any discussion all in favor signify by saying I I Okay, as always. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your hard work. I know these things don't come easy All right, well, we're almost back on schedule. Let's go back to item six announcements and the city manager's report All right, yeah, we'll move this over here temporarily. Okay, can you hear me now? Sure. Yeah, so and the last thing I wanted to say is that uh, one of my family invitations to Seattle made food We didn't have to go for a week and uh, it was extraordinary. So I've got lots of new things. We are a whole architecture some new architecture And compared that to some of the things we're seeing happening in the city center Um, it's all like last time I was in Vancouver and I saw an incredible amount of homelessness in Seattle You know a problem that's at least 10x Um, I was on a little vacation driving across country, but I'm on the way back I did spend some time in Chicago and again And More livable so it was And right before that I have a Um airport commission meeting So stuff's happening Kevin, um You know about the minnecozy meeting on uh, that paul and magic hat wherever paul went are hosting at 5 30 on wednesday We have a cc chinning county public safety authority meeting this week there is an rfp out on the street for consulting services to support the development of the Combined dispatch Has been adding some preliminary Conversations with the city of town shall learn about wastewater and shared interest in wastewater facilities and very preliminary stage, but One council to be aware of the mutual interest between the two communities to address Our wastewater system issues so more on that I will not take when the time that we have time Yep, so You'll be able to see that another time day Fine, that's perfect, thanks a lot Um, 25th or Is that fine? What we're all going to say is that I got my attention which was super nice I was just exploring That was a pretty quick one Yeah A winner else, right? Yeah, it does So we have four more of them Yeah, you just need a little more raining though Not during the winter It's not during the winter We need it sometime I'm going to give them a throat Okay Moving on to items 7th consent agenda We have signed disbursements and morning of public hearing for the castle regular meeting on august 6th When the team relating to the ballot item Raising the sub-world and property tax rate by one cent Encouraging debt and dedicating those funds to expanding the bike and pedestrian trail network to be voted on by the public On august Any comments or questions No, we're good All in favor to signify by saying aye Aye Now we'll move to item 8d Which they were moving up the council consideration and possible approval of approval of the i-89 exit 14 pedestrian bicycle crossing Bill grant application and letter of all support Which includes our local So We'll just make that great our lanes our lanes on this ballot We will hear from the line Okay Good evening For the record a lot of landshared project director I'm before you tonight to ask you to consider Supporting a grant application to the federal government For a build grant 2018 build grant And that also involves The signature for a letter of support Which includes matching funds and We're requesting matching funds at a 25 percent level, which is a about a 20 percent level as required through the build 2018 federal grant requirements. So the bill grant is Is a transportation grant that was begun Partially to get projects going on a fast track and Make a major transportation improvements. So we're requesting that a grant be submitted for the i-89 pedestrian bicycle bridge over exit 14 which has been Long and sought by the city. So it's been on the official map since 2004 And was recently scoped by cc rpc We have that project in the district financing plan. It's in the financing plan at a 13.86 million dollar level. So we are applying for A project cost in the full amount Of which the city would be responsible for 25 percent or Are just under 3.86 million uh the The project would need to be completed design would need to be completed And right away acquired and permitting completed In order to obligate for construction in june of 2020, which is a fairly tight timeline However, this project is a very good fit for the grant Requirements. So it meets the merit criteria very well The source of funding is the type of funding that's mentioned in the application So for the city match, they're looking for grants requests that leverage non-property tax And they specify tip district financing as one of those sources Or local option tax. So I included both options in the letter Obviously, there's a little time for the city to figure out what the optimal match is Um, there is this it's a very competitive grant. It's um, very possible that we will not receive a grant this year For any year, but I like to think that this is we're a perfect candidate for the program. Um, there is, uh, Certainly, um, if the project was farther along it would be a better candidate However, we feel that because Is really the one brand that this is a great fit for That the any effort of my staff at this time will not be wasted in preparing that application Great, are there any questions? So the grant is approved this time. Can you go back for it again or just a whole time shot? No, we can go back again Obviously the sooner we get going on it the better and uh And you feel we have a reasonable chance or is it so competitive that it's going to be difficult I would say it's difficult only because we're not at the 30 percent construction lines. I think we hit all the other Uh elements that they're looking for But David, I think in in a lot of history, um, not the oral remarks, but written One of the advantages of applying now and being able to apply again is they give you good feedback Uh, that's that's important I can tell you that uh The New York state is not in New York state. It's not as good as that. Um, they turned down a grant and They kind of stabbed me on the back. So this is good. Um, So I think uh, I think it makes tremendous sense that the project that I hear from students I've mentioned this before at the university that that Don't come to they don't shop at greater joes or or uh, or um What you call it right next door or uh, Etc. Because it's too difficult to get there. It's not it's not a state area For pedestrians or bikes. So the sooner we get this in place the better The iron move that we that we go for the grant and keep our community Okay I'll second it but I have a discussion So, uh, assuming this were actually happening within our 20 year window And the development actually occurred the tip could cover the entire 25 percent municipal match. Is that correct? Correct. You're not a share of that 25 percent? No, the tip financing is for 30 percent I'd spin some support this entirely in second motions Tim Okay, so if we're ready for the vote all in favor of Proving this and having me sign the letter of support Signified by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you. Excellent. Good luck Thanks a lot Get on the big project Yeah, she is a bit You're doing wonderful. Thank you Okay, going back to um Nine item nine consider and possibly approve the agreement with the town of shelburn Related to compensation associated with access to water storage in the so-called east water tank Justin and is andrew going to be here or no, he's not Okay Pretty nice and rather than director public works Andrew was not here tonight, but he's certainly along with the cabinet Tom and myself he has looked through this Participated in its drafting and blesses it in its current form. You wanted me to pass it on to you Uh, just a kind of a brief history of how we got here Way back when there was a water line that just went south down spear street Serving south burlington serving the portion portion of shelburn off of spear street near quinneasca and up to up to wedshire road Some point later the initial east tank, which is adjacent to The vermont national country club off dorset street was built in 2004 the city bonded To raise the elevation of that tank and provide more storage And all along in the interim development occurred Between spear street and dorset street to the point where the water lines were now interconnected and inter looped as a standard practice um Suddenly the spear street water line And that whole area was also being served Occasionally by the water tank Predominantly the flows for that part of town are served right off the main line However, there's a small part of the day 10 percent or so In which if you live in that area you turn your faucet on the water is actually coming out of the tank You know, I think at that time the city and shelburn weren't really tracking how shelburn was getting this water And where it was getting it and we kind of just went along our way And expended money to raise the tank and the champagne water district owns and maintains the tank If you driven by recently, you notice they just got done repainting it However Their agreements with all their member communities are the communities actually own the volume and the storage within the tank So they own the structure We own in this case a 2.1 million gallon capacity of the tank Shelburn has been receiving kind of beneficial use Of this water tank Sent its inception and since the water lines were connected to spear street Not until recently did the state of Vermont really have a lot to say about that However, they now require Your they now require our water system shelburn's water system everyone's systems To have sufficient water storage volume In the event that your main source of supply in our case Champlain water districts plant down on queen city park road In the event that there's some sort of emergency and we're not we're not able to get watered through our traditional means We are required to have one day's worth of domestic demand Again, which is just turning on your sink as well as a two hours of fire flow for fire protection We in self-growington were all set. We have that tank We have the we also have the two tanks just below spear street In the baycrest neighborhood However, the the state has They're forcing shelburn to own their own storage volume One way they can do that two ways they can do it one thing build their own tank Or they can approach us seeing as their volume is already in this tank They're being served off it anyways. So what we're presenting to you tonight Is an interlocal water Contract between self-growington and shelburn That allows shelburn to purchase up to 81,000 gallons again out of a 2.1 million gallon tank So it's a pretty small amount allows shelburn to purchase 81,000 gallons of water storage To allow two things to happen one for them to be compliant with their state water permits and two for Contemplated and future development to occur Because we've all read about the kunyaska housing project for example That project is not able to get a permit until this could this issue was resolved We have been working almost two years with shelburn on this. There's been a lot of good momentum in the recent couple months It's been approved by their select board as well as their board of commissioners, which unlike you folks They have a separate board of water commissioners here. You're blessed to serve in both roles So tonight we're asking you To authorize the city manager to enter into this contract with shelburn It would generate up to 160 to 160 $2,000 of revenue Which was never budgeted never accounted for So it's it's a pretty good thing financially for our rate payers as well So is this a one-time payment? So they have the ability annual No, it would be every gallon they purchase would be a that would be a one-time payment The life of the agreement stipulates they can purchase Up to 81,000 gallons At a pace such as they choose For example, I know the mix is authorized. They're going to purchase about half of that Through the developer of the kunyaska project. It's actually that's literally spelled out in the agreement So they're going to probably purchase half and then as future development needs dictate they'll return to the city and buy more gallons No, we we we can make this deal, but we don't guarantee that we'll provide the water We say we're willing to provide the water going that we don't need it. That's the case Now we're guaranteeing them the 81,000 gallons of the 2.1 million gallon storage tank And frankly, we don't have any mechanism of quote turning them off Not that we would ever devise to do such but no this would guarantee them in perpetuity The 81,000 gallons it does not harm the city of south berlington's development potential There's a couple few decades worth Of growth available within that water tank So such time in which we would need More water We would have to build another another water tank with or without shulbren's inclusion of 81,000 gallons So it doesn't 81,000 literally come in cheaper drop in the bucket Compared to the 2.1 million right? Yes And uh, they're going to pay out per gallon On a continuing basis for as much as they use yeah, so every gallon of the 81,000 gallons They purchase they will submit a one-time fee to the city of south berlington of two dollars a gallon Which is kind of a nationally accepted design fee If they were to build if if you're going to build a tank it roughly costs you minus land acquisition and all the other Costs about two dollars a gallon to erect a storage tank And that's per year ongoing. No, it's a one-time fee so every gallon they purchase They're going to pay for and then they won't owe us anything else until they choose to purchase More gallons up to the cap of 81,000. Dave. I think I think that's that's what I think that's what I meant Yeah, I think what you're missing is that we're not selling in the water where we're selling in the storage They still Good, and if you know if it is a little hard not sitting there and picking up some of those dynamics I will make a motion that we uh, we approve it and and and uh, make a deal I will use the link in there to say I right I move that we authorize the city manager to venture into an interlocal contract For water between the city of south berlington the town of shelver Worded better you get the motion out second to tell that Um, are there any comments from the public on this issue? Any other comments? Yeah, so I heard you say I thought that at some point during the day The water is going to say the cider mill is actually coming from the tank. Yes So the water tank is not used all the time No, well for that for this portion of our system remember geographically it's it's not as adjacent as for example Four sisters road or old schoolhouse road is to the tank So the closer you are to the tank the more often you're drawing water From the tank and as well as the lines that go by your house on the street Down on spear street kind of the furthest part away from this tank. They're a predominant source of water Is the spear street water main? However When champlain water district is doing different things with their entire system and pumping water here instead of there They get their they get their demand from the tank Because I understood that during the period of the maintenance of the tank, right? It was empty and the champlain was just pumping water directly into the system Yes, we were all getting our water. Yes, they did. So during these last 60 or so days when the water tank was being repaired and repainted They made sure that they were pumping water into south burlington on a more regular basis because we did not have the backup domestic supply within the tank On the fifth okay So all in favor certified by saying hi Hi, hi so last question when I Asked the district about the maintenance of the tank. They said they sandblasted the inside They repainted the inside and repainted the outside So the question is if sandblasted repainted the inside Have they started converting water to the customers from the tank now? They started refilling the tank today. They did. There's a whole disinfection process. Okay that The state permits this type of maintenance So our procedures they have to follow before they can start filling the tank They started filling the tank today. They expect to have it fold and back in service on Friday Should customers expect any difference in the Water appearance or smell or not in this case. No It's not like the flushing of hydrants or that kind of adjectives Some of the the goal the reason that the state has these conditions in place. So those types of things So was the tank once it was repainted was it then rinsed entirely before and then emptied before it was Rebuild the I just curious. I mean, I don't know the exact You don't want to be drinking dust. Well, no, no, I'm sure there's no dust But it's like, you know, I'm sure that this is a qualified process for recoding inside the tank I'm just curious the first four fills of the tank like am I going to notice that a big or not? It's probably fine Anyway, they did a nice job painting the outside And I can't imagine what life was like inside that tank when they were doing the payments Cannot imagine it's a bit a little hot Well, just noisy hot and the full gear Yeah So I'm sure that the the residents on Nicholas circle are quite happy now that well, the noise stopped quite a while ago Stopped the generator right and they had the big It was the machine that recycled the sandblasting materials. I think that was also Anyway, so nice nice job. Good. Thank you very much. Thank you It's always nice to have good relations with our neighbors Okay item 10 Presentation of the resolution and support of so boo spaces 2020 concept Which is the public library slash senior center slash city hall And we're going to hear from the library board of trustees and the rec and parks committee Stacey That's right. Okay, and jennifer Coakman All right Here is the resolution of the printed form So Dave we were handed out a copy of the resolution. I think it's in our packet Okay I can't I can't read it here. Right So we have two resolutions one from the recreation of parks committee in support And one from the library board of trustees. Do you have this phone number because I'll text them a cop I'll take a picture of texting the cop What number are you on? Yeah, I got it. I got it We'll text it to you That's fine. I'll let you know we're good. Don't worry about it. Okay All right. So who would like to begin? Okay, Carson rec Well, I have chance finally at our meeting tonight with recreation and parks committee to look at the whole packet That was presented on the on the june 25th meeting and our committee was thrilled with us It is it is just a wonderful plan and we are very happy with being able to provide senior center program space for our seniors who until now have been going out on a bus and Unless except for the lunches that they have here So it will greatly expand our ability to provide good programming To our seniors and it will provide another kind of Community meeting space which we have been needing for a very long time and so it's just I'm thrilled to be able to offer This resolution to you. Thank you so much Great. Well, thank you for your work Very meaningful Yes, that leaves me. So, yeah I second everything that Jennifer just said with the library as well We are very excited about this project and as the resolution summarizes that we as the library board of trustees Endorse the concept and the programmatic additions that will happen with this new space Okay Those are both unanimous unanimous. Yes And we urge the council to consider this resolution strong Okay And and I I'll mention that Holly and I met with some of the library board of trustees and kevin Uh last week, I believe it was thursday To begin to think about advocacy the advocacy that we can all do together Uh, it the meeting is called on the same page So getting all everybody on the same page to support this and be able to explain it to the public And I just think it's all a good thing Sounds like it could be a um npr program But we can make it hours first I I I think it's going to be such a gorgeous building And it'll be such an addition to all of chitinon county to have this building. It is it is something really new and The whole city center concept is is something new and it's going to be an asset I think beyond what we can even envision now So I think npr, uh, some of these larger media outlets. I think that's a great idea Okay, so we don't have to take action on this Thank you very much. This is very important in me for it's nice to have Two committees really come together. That's a you know represents a lot of our um City volunteers who represent lots of people and they're thinking So this is significant. Thank you so much Okay item 11. Sobu space is 2020 Um, and this is the project update from Steve steve roy and a lot of lancers A lot I have to say I love your updates your weekly updates. They're really informative and um, I feel like I'm on top of Um All the numerous meetings and all the pieces that are so complicated that need to get Um vetted and agreed upon and figured out. So thank you. That's really nice. Okay So david we're going to get a presentation You know it's like I'm not gonna see that here, but that's fine Is he watching? I will listen exactly This is live on youtube david if you have a computer with an internet connection Live on youtube, how would I do that? So it's youtube It's a five minute lag Oh five minute lag But the lag yeah, but you go to youtube and then you go to south furlington City council meeting I'll try Okay, I will give it a try So again a lot of ledger project director for the record And I'm going who is the lead architect on this project and heading up an enormous team of architects and engineers and so We had put together a memo We're sort of working on reconciling the design and preliminary across estimates and Wanted to come back and talk to you a bit about the concept and just to clarify We understand that the concept we did put forward a resolution for your review We understand that it probably will not be passed tonight But we do want to clarify that we are working forward With the concept that we have And that will continue to do so and That particular concept At this time we need to do that in order to stay on track for construction At the in the schedule that we're working with and so We just wanted to make sure that you're aware of that and that if there Is any indication to go in a different direction We would need to have that indication if we're going to change course and discuss that so Well a lot of two members who weren't here the last time we had a really good conversation I'm hoping that they can weigh in and that their comments Will be reflective of what The others we discussed I need my notebook. I'll get it while Steve's talking. I am going to I do have a copy an older copy of Steve's presentation So while Steve's talking i'm going to email it to Dave Dave Oh, you are okay great So I will I'll I may just email you uh an excel form, but other than that Well, thank you again, my name is Steve Roy here from women land figure architects I'm going to give a kind of a quick rundown of some of the things we're working on now um This week we're kind of focused on determining the focused areas of higher cost versus lower investment areas And establishing the levels of finish and material selections This is kind of a big priority for us right now because we're trying to Develop a final cost for a bond boat So these are some of the items that are really at the forefront right now Value management is of course a piece of every project. No different here As we look at the floor plans, these are Very similar in many respects to what you've seen a few small changes here and there and I'll go through some of those What we have kind of highlighted our areas of the highest cost finishes so the areas where we're going to put kind of the most The nicest finishes the more more public areas durable finishes that will last a long time Those areas are the lobby and corridor space The auditorium as well as the library main entrance stair and the living room portion of that area So what's what's within those red boxes? One of the changes a few of the changes that we've looked at in the past a week or so the vestibule we've Coordinated a system to have a drop-off for taxes or voting ballots Also a drop box for the library to also receive books in their off hours This occurs at the immediate Right of the vestibule as you enter the building So right kind of front and center in the front Once you enter we have the information Desk and city clerk Yes Just to the left and the entrance to the library would be just to the right so you're kind of Offered a series of options one to go straight down the hall towards the auditorium or left to pay taxes or do city business and right to do library We have also looked at a different configuration of the stair that's in the library A few different reasons for that development One is we feel that this option can allow more light into library staff areas By having a little separation from a glass partition. It's also Slightly less expensive way to get a stair, but still making it a grand and important stair So we're continuing to to allow that to evolve There's a few areas that we're considering medium levels of cost in terms of finishes and that would primarily be the senior center and specific portions of the children's library that we Feel deserve a little extra area of special recognition Those would be the story time areas The tweens area and a space up near the street to help Encourage people to go inside the library as well As we move up to the second floor that continuation of The finer finishes within the monumental stair That's probably the highest cost Area what we're trying to do in that space is to bring natural light from above Down into that stairway to penetrate all the way into the first floor It's also Very central location to enter the library. So there's you see a lot of different things happening around you As we look at the medium cost areas We see those as as special in different areas but not quite As expensive they just have a little bit of extra interest within them The top left is the teen area and also a raised platform Which happens to be over the auditorium Where we we think that'll make a kind of a cozy reading area and offers the ability to have Poetry slams or some engaging type of activity within the library space Is that full area raised? I see what stairs going up Yes The rooms are raised So this area here is all raised So there's a ramp for accessibility to get up to that level as well as a set of stairs And the design is incorporating some platforms to allow Diverse choices for seating and spaces to read Thank you The right area there are Not necessarily specific to that exact location, but we do anticipate having Special seating areas and nooks that are to some degree built in to some some will be furniture elements Those may be scattered throughout to provide different Space types of spaces for different types of individuals But nooks and special seating areas were a top priority within our community feedback Back On the lower area we have a quiet reading room, which we're envisioning we'll have a fireplace, which was also one of the Items that was asked for within our community outreach And perhaps again having some higher finishes up Up towards the street where we envision a lot of people sitting in the sun As we move up to the third floor, we don't envision any areas that are of High cost in particular We do think the nicer of the finishes will be within kind of the main Gathering space where the public would would most often be There's three shared meeting rooms for public and committee use So we anticipate having a slightly higher level of finish in that corner of the building Where it transitions to city management and planning and zoning A more standard level of finish for those spaces Quick look at some of the types of finishes we're envisioning This would be the library entrance and stairs. This is the top right is kind of an example stair but something that we're Looking at in terms of similar features it has a glass railing. It makes it feel pretty open We like the wood shreds and just the steel painted steel finish of the of the stringers bottom left is A little hard to see on the screen, but a picture of the black slate. So just looking at Vermont materials and above it is You know a finish made out of wood so trying to incorporate some local woods local stone materials something that speaks to Vermont Within that stair makes it a special place The bottom right is an opportunity for using some of that wood in a special way Where we have areas of higher Cost there may be more elements of wood where there's medium or less than trying to get local materials, but at a lesser degree and this is a rendering in progress of how we envision that stair to occur within the space This is as if you're standing at the bottom of the stair You know we're trying to incorporate some colorful Glass panels that can add interest and kind of connect the first floor to the second floor Kind of at the top of the screen you start to get a hint of what's happening On the second floor it's an activity What you don't notice in this drawing is you know the natural light coming from the skylight above you You know we're continuing to work on on what the entrance to the children's library looks like but it would be Kind of an integral point Of the design where you choose either to go into the library Up the stairs or through the children into the children's library So this skylight, um, does it have some kind of um way to keep snow off of it? Um, yeah as much it will be designed for snow loads If Well, I was thinking of not having to stay on it because then it's dark If it's deep enough. Yeah, it will be accommodated to either Either shed snow naturally Or be cleanable in an easy way There it's also a point where there is heat loss and that snow doesn't generally stay for a long period of time Um, it is also somewhat protected by the solar canopy that we're envisioning. So although that has a hole in it It will allow for Drifts to not occur on top of it So we are looking at that Just out of view And not necessarily Shown here the circulation desk would be just to the right As well as the living room. So those areas are are all being worked on and it will be for a future Future update As we turn to the living room. These are a few inspiration Examples, um as as a committee we've discussed having artwork on the wall that could perhaps rotate so we're Looking at that top left corner is A little bit of a feel of what the living room could be. This is this is just an example image, but it's a lot of glass along the street wall That'll let a lot of light in That could be different in various kinds of seating to You know to make the space warm and cozy Bottom left is a fireplace. Just an example of what it could look like. We are designing items similar to that Again to add that kind of Warmth and desire to to sit by the fireplace on a cool day Just to the right of the fireplace is imagery of Carpetting and carpeting in particular with windows adjacent to it Think part of the Desire for the design team is to select carpeting materials that Have a five-philic nature to them. So between their color scheme And their patterning it's it's a way of introducing nature into the building without directly introducing it Are those the kinds the same kind of carpet when I went over to Vermont public radio And what I thought was really cool is they had carpets sort of like that different color And they said they're in squares or rectangles If you spill something on it you can pull up the piece Clean it and I don't know if you put the same one down or you replace it with one. So it really You know how carpet and public spaces can get pretty junky looking after a while This allows it to remain fresh, which I thought was a great idea. So is that is that what you're thinking about? I like those colors better than So carpet tiles are Are very standard nowadays. It also helps with future Such as city office spaces where you want to change the carpet You don't have to remove all the furniture from the room to a broad move type of carpet. You can change the area Move a small amount of furniture or lift it. So it helps in several ways Last image on this slide is just some quick furniture choices. The living room is meant to be To have a few options for people that want more firm furniture or some that want different types of seating within within that space This is some inspiration images for lobbying and information desk What we're looking at here are a bottom left. This is A view from the wheeler house If you compare it to the top right image where there's Some use of stone and wood materials as part of a desk what we what we're considering doing is is trying to get Perhaps the profile of the mountains or the angle of red rock at Within the stone trying to relate Uh local aspects of south burlington directly into the construction of the front desk The image on the top left is the use of wood But also as part of an educational aspect has the type of wood that it is And it could have additional information but part of educating on the local materials would be to Also describe what they are within the within the project Additional inspiration which we envision Happening in several areas of the project would be And this is part of what we heard from community feedback was some of the best places in south burlington Are the walking paths What we show on the top left is kind of a Example of a possible way of creating walking paths with it within the project So we envision some floor patterning that happens Areas of the children's library might maybe much more deliberate and areas of city hall may be slightly more thematic, but but maybe less Less direct But some of these you know the crossing bridge to the right path through In different times of the year Through the woods or through a field So trying to incorporate that thematic element into the project A couple of quick sustainability updates we have On the project the large pv array that we're Examining we have gotten some preliminary cost and feedback information and it looks quite favorable for long-term operational savings of the of the project We're also exploring geothermal heating and cooling for the project We do have some modeling complete We are currently going through a process of evaluating the first cost of that of that work So we'll have a full picture at a later time But what the graph on the right does show With preliminary modeling is that The ground source heat pump is Has a lower energy use than Any gas fired system Would so we're continuing to work on these but we do think they are Headed in the right direction And something that would certainly like to include within the project Are you going to ask sampling college what their experiences with their installations and whether they perform as they were designed? Yeah, we actually we do have a few of the design team members from the sampling college project as well as Communications with the geologist that helped with that system So Yes, we we do have that connection We've had very positive conversations with them regarding their system And so does the solar array complement that because you're probably with electric It would very much so yes The There is potential here with the inclusion of both of these systems to really be an electric building That's right on the UV With the exception of gas fireplace So there is potential for very little fossil fuel use There are several several steps working to refine the design and Continue the estimates a big portion of that design work is Happening with with site work right now that has We're looking to develop three options that we can review as a team and present to the neighbors and the school What what makes the most sense We are continuing to develop interior next year reviews We've sort of touched upon some of those but really starting to develop each one each one Um Within that schedule that's listed below we have Taken the dates that are here from Engelbert constructions construction schedule They have They have pushed out a little bit and we have had discussions about how we how we shorten that if needed But these are the current dates looking at our construction completion in september of 2020 so um I I've been working on developing of a picture Of the preliminary cost estimate and the impact of that cost estimate I'd like to present them one thing I've got that it is a preliminary cost estimate and And a preliminary cost estimate is really a tool to manage costs And we do it early in the project To assess the direction of the project overall so So it's not necessarily This is the number, but I wanted to take the number from the preliminary cost estimate and look at How that could be financed so I did sorry My display thinks that this is not the right display so hang on and I'll get it up there It's coming Things blossoming Okay, this is less exciting So I know you can all read this very well But I do have handouts so so the preliminary estimate was A pretty big number and it was it was bigger than uh, and we expected And we wanted to look at the number and see what it what type of impact it had from a financial standpoint So I went to the Vermont bank, which is normally what we do when we borrow money and Ask them for some human schedules And as we do with market street, we ask for the portion of this of the cost or the costs that are Other schools be funded through to district financing So we ask for a much shorter bond period for that portion of the cost and we also ask for delayed payments So it's five years of delayed principal payments and during those five first five years We would only pay interest and then The remainder of the years we pay an even amount of principal And then whatever interest is owed on that particular main Then an adjustable rate where it changes the interest at a five-year mark It's a it's a bond rate and so it does change But once you once the bonds are sold, then it's that's the rating five years out Which we don't know what it'll be so it could give you something much more than we're expecting that when we when we It's a point at which we obtain the bonds So it's set when we obtain the bonds It will not be variable once we once we fix the bond So We would probably We would look at where the interest rates are next summer And we we would have an opportunity they'll do a winter They've been doing a winter bond issue and a summer bond issue. So we would have an opportunity to To Any at any point in the project week that either do a bond We should notice we thought that bond interest rates would drop and we could push off the data which we would recommend that the city borrow or If it seemed like interest rates are rising We could look at what the cost would be if we expected that cost would be higher delaying at any point after the boat you could decide to to to they usually they traditionally have us And recently they have been also doing a winter issue so So the schedule that I looked at began in 2019 the rates that are shown here that 3.21 and 3.77 Are the most recent bond issue that the bond bank did So they will definitely be larger. I'm not sure how much larger this is not I think that our current bond is at 2.58 So and it's But it's a short it's a it's a 20 year fund Um So So there's two bonds that I received a schedule for if I go up to the top The first bond is the tip bond you can see interest only payments and then you have the interest in principle This is our current bond for market street and city center park. These are annual payments and you can see Um that there is a principal payment The projected tip increment is actually not projected for this year for 2018 and 2019. That's our actual Um what the city receives and puts sets aside into the tip district fund These are projected increments the increments that I have in your sheet has two sides So I you I gave you 20 years. It actually goes out 30 years for the city bond but that Projected increment is based on Not the whole projection that we submitted to To dub see it's just focused on development. That's already occurred or in the pipeline So meaning that we know that people are getting permits And are are readying their property to be developed So There's a lot. There are many properties that are not included in this production. If that makes sense the annual balance is It's essentially Every year what we are paying versus what we are receiving And then there's I have a cumulative down here so that you can see The total receivables for the account in every year When you make your projected tip increments on what kind of development is going to feed the $579,000 to 2023? Right, so generally residential apartments And how certain are you in that road? So there's there's one project that's in subdivision now There are Two projects from cht which I think have come before before you and they're close to Close to completion in terms of their financing and permitting obligations And then there are Several properties which have a number of state permits but not local permits. I'm sorry There's there's one main large property that has a lot of state permits and no or Has gone through many state permit processes But does not have local permits but Does has expressed an intention to develop out the entirety of their site So are you a brand new snake in new library city hall might help accelerate or solidify some of that growth because it would be attracted to I was told it would be a good place to locate next to the So the cumulative to balance as you can see we would carry receivables up until about 2027 And part of that is just to backfill the receivables At which point there is balance And By the end Of the estimated growth there'd be about 60 million in the balance Estimated On the city side and I apologize if these numbers are not So on the city side, we have an estimate for a 30 year bond And that's a more of a normal bond payment where you pay the Equal principal payments. I'm sorry. It's a graduated payment Yes, I think they both both go down. They're both variable and they decrease over time So you start out paying more and you pay less And So the annual transfer to the reserve fund used to be at 860,000 and that was what was transferred in 2018 I did not put that in there, but this 2.7 million represents the current balance of the of the city center reserve fund in 2019 The the voters authorized 750,000 to be transferred into the fund And then I initially collected 750,000 to be transferred into the fund for every year and I have the annual payments on the top line And so the cumulative reserve fund balance is on the bottom line And I changed the number of the transfer in order that the cumulative reserve fund balance does not hit zero And so And that Starts to Sort of bottoms out around 2040 at which point the payments the annual payments drop below the annual Contributions so right around 2039 And so at this point It would be possible to start decreasing the annual contributions At what point 2040 so Rather than so you would not need to increase, you know all the way up to the full initial payment It smooths off the top of the of the initial I hope i'm not dominating here, but can I Because i'm interpreting that there is a 16 million dollar of excess tip capacity based on your estimates Is that fair statement? That's correct, but i'm also interpreting that this is going to tap out our current reserve funding levels And that it would pretty much if we look at rec spaces or the other tip approved projects That's going to translate to an increase in the reserve fund, which is not currently budgeted for this Correct It increases it not back to the levels that the city was contributing last year So it's about it goes halfway back up towards that annual contribution of eight hundred and sixty thousand two I think it's a it's important It's important to remember That the original plan was to get to eight sixty and stay at eight sixty It was six or eight sixty eight six six zero And so it went to seven fifty this year But if it were the intent of the council to stay and the voters approved it to stay at what was originally programmed Then the reserve would end up with a positive balance sooner So but but and it would pay for the project The garden street comes online. I see this tip capacity to pay 100 of garden street That's within that 16 million. So this is not going to nudge out or block out garden street 100 to finance full project based on your projections correct so So the change between 750,000 to 806,000 in An annual transfer to the reserve fund Translates to about a fifth of a percent A fifth of a cent excuse me a fifth of a cent On the tax rate and it's There's another number There's the grants so So it's essentially it's a change of 56,000 dollars And and there's another line line 18. I included in here So the reserve fund not only funds Payments, but it also acts as a cushion or a buffer For our receivables. And so this line shows That the that the reserve fund still has money in it despite sort of Carrying the receivable costs to make sure that You know, we're still able to pay all our bills so 806,000 represents about three cents on The new eight percent is just the increase of 56 right so it so the eight hundred so if you divide 860,000 By 300,000 then you'll you'll get the number of cents But just under three already put in I mean it's or we already have 750 Is within the tax rate now You have and has been quite a few years so to go back up to 860 Is but to meet the need for this project, you don't have to go to 806 But you went back to 860, which was the original program It would divide a little buffer and funding for additional program It was a 21 million dollar estimate, but that's not set in stone. There is still discussions on that and It's kind of the start from this So does this anticipate grand list growth? No, so we anticipate tax rate growth in the projection model But not grand So it assumes that the grand list stays the same forever Well, but the grand list is going to grow and well, and I think that the allocation that is provided On an annual basis is numerical. So it's not it's not a one cent. It's really just a straight number So it's not so the impact On the individual homeowner As the grand list grows would decrease I'm sorry to keep talking This is a 13 11 tip project because this in my mind is consumed soaking up a lot of our Right excess capacity. So what else is on that list the parking garage? It's 25 million a hundred percent financeable What else? So parking garage a hundred percent financeable There is an urban park and streets around that park a hundred percent financeable There's wetland mitigation and stormwater Like a consolidated stormwater system. That's also a hundred percent financeable Garden street, which you mentioned earlier The i89 exit 14 bridge 30 percent financeable Wilson road streets gave 50 percent financeable. So that is a project For which we have most of the most of the funding the 50 percent match And so it wouldn't necessarily need to come out of The city share as we don't have to provide 50 percent match From the taxpayers it could come it comes from the most of it comes from the grant But then 50 percent is the tip district This all seems relatively small. It seems like the parking garage is a big monster that that this is not going to happen I don't see 25 million dollars coming out of new development. Is that an unfounded statement? I I think you would I think a probably around 45 to 50 million Out of new development if this only looks at one property general comments now and I'll stop talking after one more statement No, do you have some other? All right, so steve does have some more sites Do you have some more dollar numbers? Okay David do you have any questions? Yeah, I think I've got a couple of questions And I followed pretty closely once in a while the sound cuts out and that that makes it a little difficult to follow everything I got uh, I can go back to the architectural designs for just a minute Um, you talked about uh wood and I had mentioned a while back Have you talked with the university about capping into kimber from university land? I don't know if that was date money or not But it certainly was worth asking and inspired. Does that does that happen or is that going to happen? It it has not happened. We're still more in the conceptual level. Um, but that's certainly something that's on the list Thank you Okay, that's that's number one number two Um, you mentioned that in that in that number you thought there, you know, five to 10 percent Yeah, we should we should probably get 10 out of it so Can we get 10 out of it which would push it down Just under like about 19 million. I mean is that is that Thing like that. Gee it might be doable and I realize there are a lot of thoughts that are not finalized into the site work Um, et cetera So five percent is very doable 10 percent There might be some tough choices Or there might be choices. So five percent is very doable. Why what why didn't we get five percent lower in the first place? Because you always want to see what you can get That's that's fine. I I Don't know until you ask David If we can get five to ten percent less, don't be it Hey, when I when I say that what I mean is that you know, you know You start with a design and you say wouldn't it be nice to have this in the building? But there are some of those wouldn't it be nice where you're like, well, this would be almost as nice That have very little impact. So that makes it very easy to get the five percent It's and and um, and actually, uh, Steve's going to go through some of those too. Yeah, this is uh, it's actually Steve hang on a second Tom. The other the other question I had was uh one when you mentioned other project Um, Kevin, you know, we've got the recreation foundation that wants to build an indoor recreation facility fairly soon as well I don't know where that money comes from. So that could be included in that in that lengthy list Well, it was it was included in the lengthy list, Dave. Yes. It was one of the projects I don't know how much more there is so I'm going to have to sign off in a minute. Is there anything I mean, I I tried to contribute a little bit and it's a little hard from the long distance, but it worked. Okay. Is there anything else? Um Urgence that I need to need to pay attention to right now and stay around a while or can I suck you out? Well, I think it would be good to have um, Steve finish his presentation because he's going to talk about some of the trade-offs or something, right? Yeah So just a few more minutes. Okay, let's go. That sounds fine. I'll run through it fairly quickly, but just Exactly what was being mentioned. There's different types of value management that we're looking at There's savings savings that can easily be incorporated in the project. We will take those Savings that reduce design features, but with minimal impact. Those are also Really easy to take There's the next kind of the next level is savings that reduce design Savings that reduce the function And then savings that may reduce the initial cost, but maybe cost more in the long run So we're sure as you as you get down that list. They become a little bit harder to swallow Uh, some of the easy cost reduction items that we're looking at taking or have already taken Reducing third floor roof height Slightly that just saves wall area around the outside edge Less expensive exterior wall materials. We started at one level and now we're just looking at ways to Save cost without making sacrifices on it Uh Revising the sunshade design to be a little less custom and a little bit more part of a manufactured window system Reduce scope of specialty ceilings to focus areas So in our initial pass we kind of threw the Cadillac at it. We're just going to pull that back a little bit Yep We took a look at revising the curved stair made it a straight stair that does have some savings to it As well as program benefits we believe We do have the option of Right now we have a stair that goes to the roof which is happening underneath the solar canopy There's going to be mechanical equipment that happens there So one choice we can look at is is Whether we have a stair to that space or we just use a roof access hatch We're looking at the the slab assembly or the decking assembly at the roof terraces right now we have Kind of the ideal scenario where we put a concrete slab on those terraces Also helps with the future potential of that space Is there a cost efficiency of having one elevator shaft dual shafts rather than two spread apart There is cost efficiency with that It's a little bit different in terms of hours that each Program is operating and access to spaces. So that's kind of the original thought but Uh reducing always saves money We can Well then Kevin you and I I can't see whether it's appropriate to interrupt or not You and I had talked about it We if we eliminated the uh, and maybe you've done it already the need for lease certification Whatever whatever costs are affiliated with that as you and I Talked to when we were at the night out last week. You can always say uh, heat lease criteria Or something like that without being leaked certified and that'll save 50 to 100 thousand bucks and if there's money there too Yes, we do have that on one of the future lists that i'll show So continuing on the list uh changing from stone or solid surface materials on areas like counters Or window sills through less expensive materials We could reduce the amount of wood trims or wood wall features We could look at reducing the public art budget by treating the building as one project So setting that budget accordingly And then there's other things that we're looking at we've We had some money in the budget for moment frames part of the structural system We can do that less expensively by brace frames Changing insulation types, etc changing to hydraulic elevators instead of traction. So there's plenty of options there Um potential savings with some design impact would be reducing the amount of roof terrace on the north side Reducing special finishes in the high impact areas I discussed earlier Larger element would be removing the skylight over the library stairway And further reducing the architectural finishes on the outside perhaps reducing stone Uh possible options to save money with functional impact would be to delete the retractable auditorium seating And in In substituting they would just become fixed or not fixed but movable seats that get stored We could delete the elevated platform in the auditorium We could reduce the av capabilities in the auditorium At least deferring them to a future time Same with the emergency generator that can be deleted from the initial scope and provided at a future time And we can reduce roof terrace area Savings which may reduce the building value over time If we were to eliminate the solar array, that's an initial cost, but it's a cost that Garners savings in the future We could not pursue The geothermal system there's an upfront cost associated with that. We're determining just how much we think it might not be actually that much But it does have operational savings We could remove Fireplaces from the program. There are currently three We could not seek weed certification. There is savings associated with that We could eliminate sun shades entirely That has an impact on energy usage to some degree as well as glare And we could also remove the building expansion potential from the north terrace. We don't have the exact number at that point for that item, but There is potential there for savings So that's that's kind of where we are the different levels of value management And that's that's my presentation Well, there's certainly a lot of options there some some more painful than others Yep, um Council members, I don't know how we how you go about that is put together Put together the list put numbers to all those things and we take a look at it in priority order See where we at begin with and see where we need to get to And uh and do some appropriate reductions Um, I I know is that is that the way we're still about it? Well, we're gonna chat a little bit about this. Um, I don't know. I think we have to Yeah Discuss them. I mean, I'm not ready to say let's cut two million personally Spoken too much. I try to minimize, but the last comment I'll make just to close this up I'd say I'm going to support this I feel that the city is definitely needs an anchor needs an identity We need something to draw our community together and as I talked to as many people as possible This community wants a library. This community definitely wants some rec space. Um, I would just say the following I was really expecting the 17 million dollar range. So I would definitely cut cut cut Not painful to the bone, but move brazil you offer me a shell and we can grow into it and add some nice finishes later on So I would support cutting this down and I would also say more in the city hall space I love these resolutions. These are really meaningful to me I would love to not just for me but for the community to hear more about why we use the hall space Because that's one thing as I've talked to people about this They just want to understand why the city hall needs to move. So That would be useful to understand and until that gets clarified and say you're gonna Scale back and be that city hall space. And then the last thing that was just a talking point But again, I'm going to support this but as we go to the community I think parking really we really need to be able to speak to them is where people are going to park And I haven't heard that yet. I'm done talking. I won't use it for anybody else So when you say, I mean we're talking about a major shift if you're talking about Not having city hall part of this building I didn't say that I'm going to support this. I'm what I'm saying is when I talk to people they they question the need for a new city hall space I think we need it. I would love to hear, you know Similar to these two resolutions the list of reasons why city hall needs to move We will produce that but it starts with the The agreement we have with the school district is that the school district moves into this building they need this the school district needs this building because Of their dispersed administrative team among their schools and they need to do some Free ups and space For their core educational activities there. So from the very beginning we talked about the school about With the school about having them move in here and occupy the space That was part of the agreement the mo you we have with school district if this space goes away as an option for them I think you know the deal is in jeopardy And so that's not something that we talked to the school board about if the if the city hall were to come out of the of the Project we would have to go and renegotiate that with the school district So I think from my perspective that's that's not something that we should be discussing We should be discussing ways that we can refine this project without sacrificing quality On experience with buildings and I've had some not a ton But enough to know that when it comes down to it if you really start to look You can find some bucks here and some bucks there and gee We're getting what we want and we're saving another pile of money And I think that's the effort we need to make and when we get to the point where we say, you know That's really all we could do without sacrificing the quality the quality the functionality of this building And we'll have to go with it and sell it and and that's that's where I see us going um So I'm I'm totally in support of it But I'm also in support of looking for every buck that we can save without screwing up the project Those were my points really just how to sell this and I think the talking points are why we need to see hall And where the parking is going to be the parking parking is big resolve We'll have more for you on that at the next meeting and then um I think the important element is that this will continue to be a public building This the we all work for the same taxpayers The school district and the city council And this will continue to be the taxpayers building The school district as I've said has long talked to us about the need to acquire additional space This just so happens to work for them because it's right across the street from two of their schools. So I think the fact that if if If we were going to abandon this space and it would space that would set empty for some number of years waiting to be sold That would be a different issue But the school district will occupy immediately Well, who gives the district the opportunity to take this space? Yeah, because Because it doesn't say that they make claim to it that they that they wanted I just want to point out that Yeah, they're doing their due diligence on the information we've given them on operational costs. So they wanted to have that that ability to have that Not in firm carbon stone that they were going to take it but To look at the cost it would be hard to imagine they would say No, we don't want this building for the ten dollars that we're going to sell it Isn't this dollar thirty ten dollars versus no, we'd really like to increase our budget and build something or rent something Somewhere else at mark for me So I think it's unlikely that they won't They had they had a I think they had a facility to rent in their preliminary budget For fiscal 19 and they cut it out. They had to cut them didn't they Tom? They hadn't leased it and that was one of the things they cut Well, yeah, I can't see what's going on. But wasn't that part of the agreement we struck with them Was that we get the land for the community center and they're getting this building? Yeah, yeah I'm talking about it again Talking points for the public Well, this was just talking points for the bill of David. We're not we're not discussing. I think we're negotiating that We're happy to work on this I think from a public from the public perspective there have been Hundreds of citizens involved in this project from all interest areas multiple interest areas I think I think it's going to take a sales campaign to put the take to get the same pass For a lot of reasons, but I think we have to put that together We still have the tips. Is that Tom talking? Yes, we do Okay, we I think that's agreed but the last meeting you and Megan and I were able to sort of talk about this plan and what we liked and what were really important pieces One of the things that I think all of us agreed Was that the the new structure the new building had to really Have a wow factor So I think we have to think about that when we go back to what things can If we just make it like every other building that's going up with that design and four stories and I think the public would lose their Excitement and interest over that So that was one thing I think the other One of the other comments that the three of us Agreed upon is that there needed to be at least in some places some really nice materials Some special Vermont whether it's wood or stone or Slate or something that adds to that wow factor and and clearly I saw this Rendition and I guess Focus areas that they identified as well. This is where we want to put the The money to make it look really nice and then other places we can use less costly materials and You know the Stacks probably don't have to be cherry, you know, they might be metal or something So and then I'm trying to think what else Um Well, why are you thinking hell and that was very well stated and that's indeed what we wanted and we do want that wow factor But for example, we can save money by pushing two elevators together and and that's a 50,000 bucks well great And so all I'm saying is we've got to look for those little things that will uh, it will save money And um, and my and my ipad just cut me off with youtube for some reason. So Um, I lost my connection to the internet. I have no idea why so I'm off of that for the russian So that's all I say is I totally agree it's a wow it's got to be a wow building It it helps establish our identity which we've lacked for so many years And we've got to go forward with it, but figure out where we can save Um, and uh, but not sacrifice. What's going to make it great Other thoughts that you know things that are really important to Yeah, I just I mean so I I agree with david that you know Is that Tom? I can't hear you Tim. This is Tim So this is Tim so I was just going to say that um, I agree with you David about looking at all the design elements Where where money can't be saved without diminishing What I think the our overall objective was was to create a special space for the city And exactly but the other thing I want to to mention is that You know, we've been on a 10 year rally on the market pretty much and We're due for a correction In terms of not just the market but also in terms of the economy and I I can't predict what's going to happen But I think we need to To temper our expectations a little bit because I think that things will change in the next, you know, two to five years so Some of our expectations here for these numbers may not come to fruition the way that we expect But they might you know, if I knew the answer, I wouldn't be here. All right But the point is is that you know, you've got to be able to say what is the what's the best case? And what's the medium case in the worst case? And look at those risk factors and understand how much money we think we have to spend Of the taxpayers dollars and how much to go to them and ask for more Right and and be able to do that in a responsible manner. So So but but we have we have the objective before us, right? We have a lot of Projections of of costs and uh, so this we're on the path Mm-hmm so I'm hearing from both of you all of you that You need to sharpen that little pencil And um, think about some other reductions. I don't know what the dollar figure is but I think you've already done some of that with the staircase and some of the finishes and Maybe looking at the Single elevator is makes sense. I don't know what that does to the floor plan, but um You know, maybe a hatch onto the roof is Okay for the ladder as it's in a ladder on the outside But you guys are getting into the nitty gritty and and I'm going to desert you. All right. I will apologize for that Yeah, we're going to continue this at the next meeting. Are we going to are we going to have any discussions in the interim? well, I think what they need is um clarity about where to go to Pair it down or just to pair it down. You'll come back to us with these are our best suggestions to get what we want for Less than 21 million dollars Without sacrificing the wow factor and the unique identity Well, yes to the extent that they can I mean they may come back and we may say I guess we need We only can afford A little less wow to third one to third wow, you know, but but yes And you know and just some of it's a ladder way to the roof to us to them, whatever it was Instead of a stairway. Well, that's something that the public's not going to be affected by and if there's You know x thousand dollars there. Well, that's probably something that it can work Same with the elevators. I don't know right so so that let's and take a look at it and And figure it out. We'll figure it out. Right. The next step is at our next meeting, right? Will everyone be here? No, we've got to find that we've got to find a time because we need to have another Look at this with the number figure so that by August 20th We have the number and it's firm. We can't Go to the public So that's kind of our goal So, I mean, I think you have the framework of what this council is kind of interested in You certainly have heard from the committees with their support So I guess continue the good work that you've been doing you've made A lot of progress I think and we can We will expect more and we'll you'll deliver Hey, it's it's not easy you'll get figured out and then and then it's going to be all of our jobs to sell it and And we'll expect So with that I thank you I thank you very much for For all those numbers presentations and information I was able to follow it for the most part for the council members my fellow councillors For your patience in dealing with long distance and the challenges that that sometimes presents Okay, that looks you all don't work too long night. Yes And what we wish you all a good night. Yeah, you and Santa, okay Right You know, yes, we're going to take the five minute break for sue and Other people and then we will move on to council interviews Okay Thanks, davin Comments from the public. Oh, I'm sorry. Are there any comments on this topic? Yes, can we well Sue really needs to break can we take the five minute break and then have comments. I'm sorry And I told them That people Yeah, and I heard you were talking Well, I'm waiting to hear back from I mean, I'm happy The vice president of the pto No, I had asked them when you know as soon as they're together No All right, and I'll let you know if I hear anything Okay Um, yeah for now, I think you're right. I can take that up. Yeah, we don't need we don't need Probably need one one there. Oh, they're not working. Oh I don't know why it didn't it kind of comes in and it was in and out just They leave on here It's a placebo I only have Oh Exactly So I understand there's a number of people in the public who would like to comment on um The So blue spaces 2020 so Yeah, Chris you want to be first? Sure. Okay My name is Chris Snyder with Snyder very woman. Thank you very much for your time. Um First off, I want to uh comment that Ken and I are very supportive of the overall Plan in the project that's being proposed Um, there's a couple of questions that we have One is we understand that there's a resolution That is being considered by the city council and If the resolution is passed whether it's I understand it's not going to be discussed tonight But in the future if it is passed can modifications be made to the approval or alternate concepts be taken up We just want to understand what sort of flexibility does The city have in terms of modifications after that resolution It has the potential of being approved So Okay, that's a question. I don't really know the answer to that I would just clarify for the public it we're not taking the resolution up tonight because we're not all here So we we decided to push it off till all the councils are here. I'm sorry. You should have said that chair Yeah, no, that's fine. So in terms of the depends on what you're What types of changes you're talking about I suppose Chris The general dimensions of the building would probably be pretty well set. Yeah, the major components Where the rooms are and all would probably be pretty much set After the council approves the concept The Work will continue on design inside, but it'll be on a smaller scale things So I think that that sort of hits to one of our concerns is that So we're the current owner of the property and are planning to sell the property to the cathedral square at the end of september of this year and there's really Some constructability questions about how the Library footprint Works adjacent to us because our current access to our building is over Your what will be your future lot and we understand that there's some preliminary ideas of how to access the garage however, there is Constructability and how it gets done and what it looks like at the end In usability, I would assume at the end. The other is that there are some easements that are going to be required For stormwater and for green mountain power Along the back of the property line that we know about and so we just want to ensure that the design of the building Coincides with those Required items and it looks as though the building does take up the majority of the lot and doesn't consider those items There's ways to work through these issues We just haven't Worked through them yet with city staff the architects And then there's one other piece which is the utilization of a easement that was That we gave to the city during the Administrative permit process along the northern boundary line and that will affect the parking area of The cathedral square building and so we just want to understand what that is. So there are three real Constructability questions that we have and our concern is if the resolution Passes and the footprint basically has to say the same There's no flexibility for those items and so we are concerned about that and more than willing to participate With the staff and with the architect and site designers And we did have a meeting at the end of march But haven't been a part of any other meetings with regardings to the site Since then So those are our concerns and we just want to make sure that You don't go down a road That we all In that, you know, let's say it gets approved and then there has to be substantial changes to the building to accommodate some of these can constructability issues Okay, good points. I mean they certainly We have all we have to work with the school district as well in terms of the Road going in and the bus safety Absolutely So and we clearly need to work with you because right now your access is underneath the live, you know Where we want to build a library That's exactly right And so we just want to make sure that we understand what that is before the resolution is made so that therefore there's not a problem down the road Okay, because we certainly want to be supportive Thank you. Thank you. Yes I am Cindy Reed from cathedral square and I wanted to echo our support as well for this project. It's really exciting We're really thrilled to be purchasing ellered square and our residents will love the library and the senior center. It's a great Great symbiotic plan And I want to echo some of chris's concerns And just let you know chris and ken and I met with kevin this past week to talk about these issues and We would like to be part of coordination of site design because that could bring cost savings and and make it workable and I wanted to reiterate about the easement along the northern side that could potentially connect to mary street We are concerned about that We think that it would Well, it would definitely take away critical parking spaces from our lot, which is It's a beautiful lot. It's a beautiful building, but it's our smallest lot within our portfolio As to compared to how many units are there So you can imagine that having it be completed. We don't want to lose any parking spaces on that site And a road going right through If it was connected to mary street, we'd have safety concerns for our residents many of whom are frail Seniors, so I just want to state that we are concerned about potential connection to mary street Hoping that we can look for alternatives While things are still in draft form And we invite the opportunity to work with the design team and on these coordination and access location questions And I also wanted to just reiterate our our thanks to the city for all the allard square support We have about 116 applicants right now. Oh great working through Super. Yeah, thanks. Thank you Any other comments? Okay, thank you very much We will move on now to item 14 And we're gonna start with um the dog park Individuals we have it's a new committee We have seven people Some of whom are are appointed so there are four openings And first up is barb service We have your whoops Application and Thank you for Applying And we have a bunch of questions I can start megan sent some so um, she's not able to join us. She's in um To lose I think tonight Um, so do you have experience writing fact sheets or grants? I do Lots right lots lots Um the the uh, I drafted the final report of the dog park task force along with the help of my colleagues Um and have a lifetime of experience of writing grants and those kinds of written documents How do you approach problems or issues? I try to be patient sometimes I'm better at it than others um But certainly looking at all of the facts Um on as many sides of an issue if I've learned nothing else in this life I've learned that there are at least As many as five or six different perspectives on any given issue. I'm trying to Trying to have an open mind to listen to all of those before I Resolve what I think is the best idea Do you have experience doing online research? I do That's another one of those things that when you're an academic Um, that's the kind of thing that that you end up doing I think I probably do more of it in retirement than I did even when I was working. I didn't think that was possible, but Um, it seems to be a lifelong pursuit even in retirement Okay, and her last question Um, how much time do you have available to research best practices or make site visits? It depends on the week Um, some weeks I have more time than others. It just uh, I will certainly try to do what I can to adjust my schedule I've already indicated to people that I am not here in the winter But the dog park task force and I learned that A cell phone is a magical thing And I can participate in meetings and that sort of thing from Wherever life seems to be putting me at any given moment. So Technology makes that a whole lot easier than it used to be Okay Those are Megan's questions. I thought they were good ones. I'm just glad to see you apply for a committee And I was looking for another one with an open spot to see But maybe we'll plug you in next year This is this section. Do you like cemeteries at all? Sure Actually, I do like uh, I do like cemeteries. I uh, Spend some time wandering through cemeteries while I was out of town last week Um, I think they're Interesting places to read. They don't and I have applied just for a one-year term on this committee Okay, because we're gonna stagger the terms. I'm asking for the The one-year term. I will be traveling a lot next year Alrighty, but I'm committed to at least trying to help the committee get started and go through the transition from the task force to Committee and bringing forth the history and learning that we uh Had the opportunity to engage in over the last several months Okay, tim any thoughts questions We're able to attend all of the meetings of That's my question. I know it doesn't exist yet. I know it I attended all the meetings of the task force. Thank you. That's all I And more meetings in the city council than I'd like to think about She even listens YouTube, yeah Okay, okay. Thank you. Thank you very much Thank you for applying Um, let's see next we have linda chasun So we can start with toms. Did you attend most of the task force meeting? I did attend all of them Plus the site visits Okay, so you'd a hundred percent I'm on board right attendance. Yeah, okay um Do you have do you have experience writing fact sheets or grants? I have in the past, but I would you know, there are a couple others who probably have More recent skills, but yes, I have written grants a number of them Spreadsheets I think um, you always try to collaborate If it's a question um The others can support your solving, but certainly I think listening is the most critical piece And have you done experience in online research or yes, I have and how much time do you have available to? as much as We spent some a lot of time in the task force beyond what committees we're doing and I would Do have and invited for the dark part, but he also applied to nrc Because of my interest in helping to develop community gardens, which I have I did submit it So Am I on it? I did Yes Yeah, because I'm hearing best of with our the right in parks community bands for property and Gardens there and I've done a lot of gardening so I have the time I almost had to do self-study um Well, I started in a community garden. We're currently involved as well as in the central school Collaborating with a group of adults at that school community gardens I'm very interested in the students having successful gardens. They plant them and They don't get there during the summer. So The adults are working together to do that. Um, I've started a number of projects and You know things that have never Been developed You know programs for individuals or You know just something extra. So I'm pretty driven And how do you prioritize tasks within a committee say? Um, I think you have to look at a broad picture Look at what are you being asked? What is it that Um seems to be the most important. I think you always gather facts And then you kind of take it from the broad and narrow it to come up with priorities No, I was on record parks, but I'm very interested in the open space and also, um The um community gardens I do some volunteering up well Okay Any other questions or Good. Thank you very much for, um Okay, so next we have uh, um Ben Limitsia And she's here for the same thing now for resources committee and the dog Okay Yeah, I've done grant writing And I love to do research especially about things that I'm passionate about Um, which of course you've all heard me talk about dogs and Um, yeah for years. I've been researching around dog parks and, um Find it very exciting to think about South Burlington developing its own Uh having a nice dog park or a network of dog parks would be great. I don't know what else right now You guys have heard from me before so I'm trying to repeat myself Do you have any other questions how about for natural resources? Oh She is yeah You got any questions for me, Tim? No All right. Well, thank you. Thank you Yep Um Turn around for the dog park. I don't think we have one other person and Oh So john burton, this is the economic development committee. This is a new committee Tell us a little bit about yourself and why why this, um Many things is of interest to you sure Uh, I've been involved with business in the state through a variety of other organizations from my state chamber Uh, the remote manufacturers extension center and now recently as chair of the spba Uh, so I have an interest in economic development and uh, it sounds like an interesting demo I have some questions from How does the city center's development impact the business community and your community? I think a Businesses decide to locate in a community and stay in a community because of a variety of factors some of which are amenities such as city center It's just the the general look and feel of the community the fact that's moving forward with interesting Changes and and ideas. So I think uh people locate in vibrant communities. So it's uh, I think going to benefit the business community And how do you see the balance between the goals of the city's comprehensive plan? To be livable affordable green and clean with a fighting diversified business I think they go hand in hand. I think that any economic development Policy or approach for the city Um, is going to have to first identify what kinds of businesses do we want what businesses do best in south berlington And match those with our goals And uh, I'm sure a lot of businesses that wouldn't want to be here self-select out And the ones that we want probably already starting to be attracted to us But we need to articulate that what makes sense what kind of businesses should come to south berlington and I've said this to kevin and others Many times when I talk to people outside of South berlington I say well, there's a lot of great places you could start a business and some people do in south berlington But many many start businesses elsewhere But if you want to grow your business if you want a thriving business with some room to move and develop and You know become a midlife business a midsize business. I think south berlington is is the best place to be How do you envision this committee working with other standing committees on what types of projects? That's a great the question we're going as a committee to have to to resolve And we would look at the city council to give us some advice on that as well because it is a new committee And certainly, uh, we want to identify the areas That are unique to our committee, but also identify areas of overlap and and uh, reach out to those other committees to coordinate So it has to be defined We did pass a resolution that had some definition if you have any Right that I did So I think that gives I think it has an overlap with a lot of other Committees in a positive way. I don't think it could be a problem Thanks I don't know how often we're going to be I I just retired So I I have I have some time, but What I'm already discovering as soon as you say you're retired everybody wants your time But uh, yes, I certainly will make time to do this correctly Okay, thank you very much He did make it I So this is this is one of the things that I actually do sort of as my profession I've been in economic development for The last 10 years working with gbic doing economic development for chitin county So sort of by trade. This is kind of this is kind of what I do in the region in northwest vermont And across across vermont You know both both in the sort of physical space working with value-added employers in the region And also particularly focused on workforce and workforce development Specifically through the state workforce development board, but also In local regions participating with lection and playing regional chamber of commerce with the regional planning commission. So This has been a large part of my professional career already So how does city centers develop and impact the business Unity in your view in in a similar way that infrastructure does Sort of it sets the environment for the opportunity to grow. It doesn't inherently You know create business. It doesn't inherently draw anything to it But what it does is sets the primary conditions that allow Employers to make those decisions and allow them to to sort of feed off of the vibrancy But a city center their city center creates in addition to the identity So you have the sort of The sort of soft things the soft conditions for for opportunity and for growth and that's usually what attracts You know someone oftentimes they're there because they're there But then actually promoting those those infrastructure improvements and having Sort of having that development sort of in place already allows future growth And what are your thoughts about the balance between the goals of the comp plan And I mean in general, I think that Vermont has an ethos that tries to focus on that balance. I mean the work life Sort of is The reason why we're all here, you know, we've we've all made everyone makes those sort of economic choices for what's important to them and I think that sort of having Recognizing and being very intentional with how sort of your economic or employment needs overlap is the The health and vitality of your community. It's Pretty pretty core to kind of who we are when we, you know, determine what our identity is going to be as a city And sort of who we are just in Vermont in general And lastly, have you envisioned this committee working with others other committees and Well, again, because a large portion of, you know, economic development involves sort of encouraging those initial conditions for growth I think, you know, again, it's as as to be determined to a certain extent how that functions Explicitly, but there's going to be, you know, land use natural resource Overlaps at a number of different areas. Just, you know, each business has unique needs. They have unique transportation needs they have, you know And and those are all going to be areas where where we need to reach out and sort of lean on the Existing infrastructure that's here both from the city and and from other committees I would hope so. Um, I think a large area Of opportunity that we've been taking a look at is with career and technical education In particular, so I'm hopeful that there would be areas where we can really bring that to the forefront. I know, you know On a national stage, this is this is a pretty hot hot area of conversation. It's definitely one that Vermont is taking looking at Particularly because we have, you know, declining population in general And so what we need to be doing is focusing on sort of the people who are here and trying to see how we can retain them So I would I would hope that that would be an area that the committee would move towards Do you have a plan for divorcing teens from their screens so they head to the workforce? As yet to be determined what the intervention strategy needs to be We have regional coordination, so I'm glad you applied. It'd be great to have a GDIC connection there. Great. Thank you. Thank you very much Linda Johnson Norris You go by opening You can call me whatever you want. It's not late for dinner Linda Norris is fine All right You're why don't you? Well, I had somebody take my arm and pull it behind me and say, you know, this would be a good opportunity for you to contribute to South Burlington and so I can't say that I've seen any mission statement or anything on the economic advisory council But I would love to make it an impact or volunteer and help out if that makes sense for all of you My background is having worked about 20 years at IBM All over the country, but mostly the last five years of my career were here removed here 23 years ago And love South Burlington and have had business experience in technology and hardware and software technology and components And have worked as a manager in New England And then as a national manager and then as a worldwide manager So I've had lots of different General manager kinds of jobs and branding and sales and marketing and would love to help in any way I can if it Fits for South Burlington They can't help us if the bond passed maybe How do you think the thinking of that the city center's development impact the business community? Well, I think it's a really exciting time to be in South Burlington They said we moved here 23 years ago and I don't know if you've probably done 50 percent or almost doubled in growth and Coming up with a city center and identity that we haven't had In the past I think is critical and I applaud all of you for going through all those steps to get us to this point It's it is going to draw in I believe It's a great selling point for bringing businesses into here and Making investments in this community and we're at a great space great time in our in our uh history And I'm excited about it. And I think it will be a great selling point for bringing more economic development here Good And how do you see the balance between the city's comp plan, you know, green, livable, walkable with um a different type of business It's a it's a tough thing to to balance definitely. Um, but I think we've done a pretty good job of that I mean, we're doing a lot of development But I think I've seen it enough and not all that everybody does here by any means that uh We have to balance it. I mean, it's part of our karma in vermont and uh, I think I don't know what all the committees are in south brolington, but We should all work together and making sure we're Getting utopia and balancing those two It's critical to us Anything else from Oh You got a network out there a lot as much as you can Right and work with some Companies and try to maybe proactively do it when I when I actually moved here, you know, we my husband I we came from california And we're looking at that kmart space I think was just went totally gone and you see things like that and I thought wow I wonder if our town has a like a director of development or business development or a manager of business development or something Because I do believe you got to do some outbound things like that You can talk to commercial realtors who have to go to you know, the chains and try to say come on into this town whether be burlington on the church street marketplace or Come here or don't go to wilson Let's I think south brolington is the is the place to be and we should be selling it as a place that is growing and Vital to vermont and we get a great balance and I get a dog too. I'm hoping all the dog parks are about great Any other questions? Okay, thank you. I'm glad I wasn't twisted your arm, but I'm glad they did. Thank you We'll keep that Thank you Or is it an either or either or okay first off, I'm not retired That's okay. You're sure okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So why are you interested in I mean the economic development committee is your first choice Correct. Okay, so Well south brolington has a great story to tell And it's a great economic development story. I've been in public relations and marketing for 30 years Originally, I actually started as a community development officer in Massachusetts So I do see both sides of that coin But I really think there's as I'm saying a great story to tell here And I don't think it gets out as much as it should and I don't think it gets out as consistently as it should And getting that message out is the key element of economic development If people don't know what the town has to offer if people don't know or understand The benefit of placing their business here Well, you've lost most of the battle before it starts So I really would like to use some of my skills to really let folks know in the business community What south brolin has to offer and as a serial in trompe of anore and I've started three businesses by self I understand what it's like when you're looking to start and the fear And you're looking for allies And I think we can position ourselves to be that ally for emerging businesses here Yeah, so you mean you think there's a role for this community to work with schools to try and Like I said before, attract young people to participate more in the workforce and then in addition Training them for the jobs that might actually keep them in the state Well, there's definitely a role for the committee to play there But we need to develop the jobs So when we're selling students on why you need to stay and the training that you need That with those jobs are really there So I think it's it's it's two sides of similar coin, but we can't do one without the other Well, I think it can impact it much more in a positive manner If business community has a deeper understanding of the value and what's available To them through city center, but not only in city center itself But the city center is illustrative of what you can do across all of south burlington A lot of the rhetoric is really focused on city center and that's great But what about the rest of the town? There's a lot of other opportunities Not every single business is going to want to locate in city center But it can be a magnet to bring those businesses to the greatest greater south burlington in general But once again, it's getting that message out being consistent with it and presenting it in a way That's going to be appealing to those businesses And how do you see the balance between the goals of the city city comp plan And Well, you said the key word balance Now it's up to the community and the council At all the stakeholders to figure out what that balance is because there's always going to be some level of conflict Businesses are going to want to do certain things From a natural resources perspective, for example, we don't want to lose wetlands So figuring out that balance and how you make that work Especially with some of the regulatory issues on the state side is really key So I don't have an answer that this is the solution But it's a tough issue to find that balance But that balance is there if you're going to be patient and willing to do the work to find it And how do you envision this committee working with other committees and maybe some projects that they might work on with another committee? Well, as I stated, exactly the natural resource committee seems like a natural kind of alliance With economic development because there are going to be a lot of crossovers in that area as well as with other committees So I think it's just natural that those alliances will take place But you know, you do have to work together to make sure You know that you're getting an effective approach between the committees Well, you're not retired. Do you have enough time for this? I believe so, yes And he's been here a lot longer than I have tonight Any other questions Thank you very much Yes, I remember interested in the library board And she came tonight because I think she's going to come tonight I think she, this is the night she can come Oh, okay It's good that she came Yes, the whole Seattle specifically and I think she's going to come So Maybe you're interested in the library board And I'm used to higher education in interviews, so I did bring a short CV if you wanted I also brought my long 12 page one, but I don't think you'd want to see that But if you want a short one of what I'm Sure Yeah, this is a little more low-key Yeah, I wasn't sure, but I figured I should try to be prepared Anyway, thank you That's great So what's We have a lot of background in libraries Yes, yes Working on our new one It's an exciting time. I think, um, yeah, I've lived in South Burlington for three years Survived three winters and I decided now it was time to get involved in the community And when I thought about where I could make the most impact with my education and experience I thought of the The library board Have you had Experience in fundraising or I have a little bit, um, long ago. I worked for an arts council in the Philadelphia area And worked with them. We um, actually had a very successful art auction to raise funds for local art programs Then I'm kind of on the other end, you know being involved in different boards That we're trying to set up at the University of Vermont some more the form Formulating Okay Talks about, you know, what the library's trying to do I No, um, I looked at the yeah, I looked at the plans the other day. It looks exciting. I mean, I think um The I think having the auditorium there you have a bunch of different spaces. I had some questions about actually the The acoustics if you have a space open to the second floor I know I've run into that in other places where I don't necessarily think that's going to be a quiet place But sometimes Just even yeah, yeah, that was the one thing I noticed. But otherwise it looked like um A space that could serve um multiple groups of people, you know, I mean a public library serves Children through senior citizens And do you I think you mentioned An interest in tweens, right the team And there I just said the library serves has some yeah, really you had any direct experience on that I know um, one of the council members made an emory is not here tonight, but that's a A big interest at first is really having the library be a place That's you know engaging in a right and serves that Sort of in between Right, I don't have experience with that. I've always worked in higher education, but um, certainly know Places that do that. I mean, I think the american library association has a lot of programs that even go into I know that there's some libraries that sleepovers. There's all different types of things that you can do All right, okay any other questions Oh Are you planning on creating something for a while? Yes, I think so I have um the job's a good fit and um, I'm not a cold weather person But I feel like after surviving three winters. I'm giving my way around It's getting warmer Okay No, I did have a really good idea Well not an idea of how the library might an easy way to get some more funding because I noticed on their website They had something about amazon smile But I didn't see anything about it and you know amazon smile if you order on amazon.com It does It's a little it's a little clunky to do and I was sort of worried about it the first time I did it But that's I think you get five percent of every order and certainly I buy just about everything on amazon Sorry, but there's a lot of things you can't get A lot of things you can't buy in buy in burlington Yeah, yeah, apparently they've set something up where you can do that But I thought gosh you could just print out some bookmarks and hand them out to everybody I mean, that's that's really something Do you have any questions for us? Not really I dug you know, I looked at some of the past minutes and see they meet once a month. Um Yeah Yeah I do have the time. Yeah No, and it's um community service is part of faculty expectations anyway, so Yeah Thank you very much, thank you All right All right We're obviously not going to vote on all anything tonight, but we are starting this Process of interviewing and we'll figure out. I think we still need a couple slots to be filled You may you may have committees that are either Have not been fully filled out both the existing Applicants who you want to choose there are committees where There are incumbents and there are same number of seats. There are incumbents that you could Who you've interviewed before So maybe at the next meeting or following the meeting here soon you could just Get those out of the way Sure, let's try to um, I mean making them is okay, but let's just Going forward as with David Do you want to Make some decisions about the people who heard tonight? Or do you want to wait? I don't think there are We need four people for the dog dog task force And Oh mark Dickinson couldn't come tonight. He must come on a different night and chef brats And there's another one that's coming in I understand for me Okay, but and we have a couple that are Might be appointees from other committees, right? Yes, one And one from natural resources and that's another one A canine expert. Oh a canine expert I'll say if you haven't seen any overflow so everybody fits within the Available positions and I supported everybody they interviewed tonight. So I would be a comfortable Well, we haven't heard from chuck or mark Is there uh more applicants that there are positions in that? Yes, there are so but we so we probably have to wait How about economic development? Sam You did not oh he was invited I don't know No, he uh He stopped in before the meeting and I don't know how that didn't happen. He's on the list of here tonight But for he was not So we could have Yeah, so we could say yes to john And michael Some of you are still here Three year terms and two year terms Anybody wants a two-year shorter application? I think it'll be once a month I think that's what when how most committees meet I don't think it's more often than that I mean you might have to get you started you might You know the first month you might get organized and then set an agenda Come back in two weeks and then you know go forward with once a month Linda and john wanted the two-year Okay And south three are you okay with that? Sure Okay, help michael Oh, we left he gets the two years since he left. No, he gets three years He gets three years. Oh, he could have two or three Because we need four three years. Let's give him a three-year. All right, okay So I'll entertain a motion to approve john burton for a two-year term Seth Bowden for a three-year term linden norris for a two-year term and michael albertson for a three-year term So second all in favor Okay Well, so congratulations and thank you so much really This is and we're excited about this new committee and I think it should be great In your first test was to stay up past Okay, I'm not sure we can do anyone else tonight So okay, we did that we're people. That's good. Okay. Thank you very much Item 15 we don't have much more Hang in there appointment of cell phone representative and alternate to the chippin county's regional planning commission board Currently krisha is the board member and making this the alternate I believe so. Yeah, I think so I don't I I have heard chris express his interest Yes, but I was not able to reach him for that specific question this last week If he if we Reupt him and he declined would we have the chance to read the somebody else? Yeah. Yeah So, um, I would entertain a motion to Reappoint krisha as the board member in vacant as the alternative or alternate Okay, all in favor we didn't ask for discussion. Did make him want to be appointed. Um, I don't know but I think so anyway She's not on anything else I mean and she's just an alternate and she's interested So I'm sure she would okay. So all in favor good I don't know the council's report Since the last meeting I was elected the chair of the green man transit board for this coming year. We're tackling the ssta We're creating us a task force for the ssta to look at possible configuration options That could be very beneficial for our large municipalities like south furlington We're looking at implementing this very expensive next-gen report that we just wrapped up So that translates to some changes that were the other paper that were published a month or so ago Okay, thank you My last airport commission meeting Four to six months, we're going to buy four total two different types so we can test them out Are they as big as the current buses or they're smaller? I don't know the answers to that. I think they vary A little bit of a surprise the outgoing chair has been passionate about this chape and caner So tomorrow at the board meeting i'm giving him a little toy electric bus Hopefully he's not watching this right now So we're going to have an electric bus in the fleet as of tomorrow morning, but it's going to be really small So you can fill it up with ants easily for little mice Little mice good enough Oh, okay airport commission Last saturday, we officially opened a portion of the taxiway system A quarter 25 of the really big 13 and a half million dollar project to to move the taxiway So it's it's taxiway gulf and mic So I think those are like sections so I'm getting a tour Friday of all the projects. I'm looking forward to that Air traffic for the physical year and end is up Over 4 percent, which equates to 25,000 more passengers for a total of 623,489 And they really believe that the projections continue to be Positive and they're estimating by the end of this calendar year the top 650,000 So things in that respect are going in the right direction. They're very very busy If the lct keeps freezing rates on the fairways you could see people not going over the Plaster, well, that's good because they just raised the price again like plastics The other thing that helps site apparently south burlington or the south burlington airport Um Is that our cost is a lot lower than than our competitors why I'm not quite sure but they are Um, and I've kept to a price of the the drilling and the compression and I really think that I mean my hat's off to gene. He is letting me know every time they change something I I let people know So I think that communication is um very much improved And I think the community or the neighborhood is appreciative of that they stopped that Compressing drilling or whatever that it's not really drilling, but it's I'm kind of packing to break it up When it was really hot and he's working trying very hard to get the fAA to Agree to some Changes in the scheduling for all the work so it doesn't adversely impact the residents So I think he is making some good Progress there and I I I'm very appreciative and I think he's really Got the message wants to work and is working really hard Um moody's upgraded them to a ba2 A couple reason which is very good news for them I mean it still isn't where they want to be but it's it went up from the bottom and a couple of reasons um is that the all the airlines have signed Five-year agreements, which is a really positive thing for airports And um, so that's positive. They have a cat the cash balance has improved and they also um The number of days of cash on hand has gone up It's again not where they wanted to be but like South Burlington. They're working on it and that's a tough thing So those are the three factors. They believe were really the substantial reasons Um, the garage is going to have a new system in by the end of august It will allow you to pay inside before you go to the car Yeah, so so it's supposed to be more efficient and effective and I think there's some kind of Program also about, you know, where it's open to park and stuff like that So they're very excited about that and the hotel will start next spring instead of $5 million budget And they're still working Oh, I don't know I think I don't I think they were going in and I don't think it's sign sealed. It's had one hearing They've had a hearing You're going to see Gina and Fry I have a I I have another commission meeting Wednesday and then I'm going on my tour friday Can I ask you to ask him something? Sure So when I was in Seattle, I saw a tv program where they were they were touting new airport technologies And one of them was a ground-based either radar or lidar debris detection system And I don't know how new this thing is and whether it's applicable to this airport, but Lidar it's either a radar radar or lidar Debris, you know runway taxiway debris detection system, right? So it's grant it's very close to the surface and it can detect my new particles that are not my new, you know But particles on the runway that shouldn't be there that could damage jet engines And I'm sure that the national guard if they don't already have it They might want to think about asking the FAA for funding for it because it really, you know Reduces the risk of damage to this was in Seattle. Yeah, I think they have it If they don't have it at SeaTac, they have a they have a system at like maybe at the Boeing test strip or something Okay Okay, great. Thank you Um, okay, I will entertain a motion to convene as the South Burlington liquor control commission Second all in favor Okay, we have One And the Vermont pool and bar which is outside of the double tree, right? So it's It's separate, but it's Isn't there the the well, isn't it the same Yes Oh, okay, I'm sorry, I gotta Okay, so We don't need to hear from you unless you have new information I have no other information other than to ensure that the liquor control commission that council acting as such Understands that this is a prospective application In contemplation of a potential sale of the property. This is not a new it's not a replacement It's just I'm sorry. It's not a new license It would be a replacement because I would imagine the current license holder at that location would then Uh, let it lapse or revoke it in some measure I have no problems with the double tree. I'm completely supportive of it I did have a comment on the other one. I just I haven't seen these conditionals before so this one email saying that these four conditions have to be met I I understand we don't necessarily inspect this. We just would hold them accountable So I will support it, but I would love us to get to a place where we did some follow-up inspections on these types of things But Ed is Ed is a new inspector for us Since terry has moved into the slot as uh Interim chief Ed Spooner one of our senior firefighters has moved into the role of inspecting And uh, this is just kind of a different format that Ed's using but the um, the conditions would follow with the permit Without without the additional clarity those conditions are on the permit Because it says it's to be just for two to three times a year. They have planned dates already in july and august I mean There is I don't know what the acoustic dynamics are between that location and the huge arborvite Barrier that acts, you know, that separates the the back of san rimo to the neighborhood That's to the east, right? But you know that that could be a potential noisemaker for people that was whose home is back up to that I don't know, it's pretty far away right now. You know Just a consideration that's all so well if it's a problem, we'll hear about it and then we can Pardon me, it's just one year It's only till 9 p.m. So it's not like that shouldn't be a problem But I think about I spent time at the back stage and they Have an outdoor deck at the back of the building and there are homes, you know to the I don't know what direction it is probably the east again, right and Our south and I don't think there's a problem there. So and people aren't rowdy. They're just outside playing cornhole Okay, beer I'll move to approve the two liquor licenses presented before us Second Second yeah all in favor All right, okay Great. Is there any other business? You need to come out. Oh, I'm sorry. We need to have motion to come out of uh liquor control to come out of the liquor control board Second all in favor All right, I just want to note that with the double tree The fact that it kept saying the doing business as double tree by hilton burlington vermont over and over again It's in south burlington It's in south burlington But you know, is there you wonder about the state, you know, do they know right is their legal counsel Can you check and see if the rooms and meals tax is um Collected and sent to the state actually gets into the the one percent gets into vermont south Burlington's coffer versus burlington Yeah, I know they have told us I don't know Will you tell the future owner then that would be a good thing to check on To make sure you could better change the name Just saying there you go Double tree of south burlington sounds good. That's right There is So is there any other business do you believe we are just about on time No other business Motion to adjourn all in favor Hi Thank you. That used to be called It should be called double tree near city center In south burlington, yes Just kidding. So our next meeting is the