 The the same treatment as Zuckerberg. I know, right? Oh My god, and people tell me to take politics more seriously Like honestly spit on it potsy which politics politics or politics which one They all all these All these people these days get up my get up my keister about like you're not taking out serious that this is our society Man Kanye West is the number one political story in America and diamond and silk is being interviewed I saw somebody going in on you yesterday like why you making such a big deal out of this and you were like Have you looked around? our president What more needs to happen Yeah, we're living in a simulation. Okay, I mean, yes, if anything has proven the fact that we're living in a simulation Yes, it's yesterday and I mean this as non politically as possible. We are just playing by new rules in But we live in and so it's like Kanye West goes and is is saying a lot of things that people are finding politically controversial It's the number one thing that people want to talk about like it is it was asked directly in The Fox president Trump was on Fox and friends today Amongst whether or not, you know, he colluded with Russia Why he fired James Coleman? He was asked about Kanye West that is the level in which that those yeah Those are the three stories, right? Yeah, three stories and two more old and one of them happened this week. So Yeah, man, I'm right up with my damn croissants. I Just what you know I have so many thoughts about this but if I get going I won't stop and we're at 128 So yeah, good day internet Good good use your powers for good I will say about Kanye West political opinions If you're if you want to do the the the rundown of things that he has said outright either in his lyrics or in interviews It is an eclectic mix So I wouldn't get too attached to any one thing that he has said I did I I did Definitely agree with his Excel spreadsheet Cuz I'm like effort. Yeah, screw a spreadsheet I know a few people those are fighting words 30 p.m. And time to do the news let's do it Is it my cold open or yours Sarah? I can never I think when I can't remember it's usually yours All right, here we go. Hey, dude Daily Tech news show is powered by you to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Thursday April 26 2018 from Los Angeles on Tom Merritt and from studio feline also in Los Angeles I'm Sarah Lane from Oakland, California. I'm Justin Robert. Yeah, and somewhere in between our producer Roger Chang Yes How's the roofing? It's really loud. They just stopped a second ago. So hopefully It'll stay that way for a few minutes, right? Remember folks when you support the show you are literally keeping a roof over Roger's head. Yes Hopefully that roof will be done by tomorrow. All right, let's start with a few tech things you should know Lots of earnings to report today. Let's start with Amazon the company reported its first quarter earnings today Beating expectations handily with revenue of fifteen point oh four billion dollars versus the expected 49.78 billion that's up 43 percent year over year North America revenue jumped to 46 percent to 30 set 30 Rather point seven billion dollars while international sales grew 34 percent to 14 point eight billion of Note for the quarter Amazon web services sales grew 48 percent year over year to five point four four billion dollars Generating 1.4 billion and operating income About Intel I know you're screaming into your phone Well, don't worry earnings came in eighty seven cents per share That is up over the forecasted seventy two cents per share and revenue was sixteen point oh sixteen point oh seven billion Beating the street who had forecasted fifteen point oh eight billion total revenue for the quarter is up nine percent Year-over-year the client computing group brought in the seven point four billion in the first quarter the data center group Which grew twenty percent in the fourth quarter of fiscal? 2017 brought in three point nine billion in revenue, but let's complete the hat trick with Microsoft earnings do it reporting revenue of twenty six point eight two billion dollars and earnings per share of ninety five cents Both of those beat analyst expectations quarterly profit rose thirty five percent Microsoft's intelligent cloud division had revenue rise of 17 percent including a ninety three percent rise in Azure revenue Azure and Office 365 are powering Microsoft right now Personal computing segment revenue grew 13 percent with Windows OEM revenue growing by four percent Which may sound small but Windows OEM revenue not something they really Expect to be driving things so four percent ain't bad. I don't think xbox gaming revenue grew by 24 percent Thanks to third party game titles got you mania running wild It sure is let's talk a little bit more about snap Bringing it back Well, finally they answer the masses snap released a new version of its spectacles sunglasses Yeah, you heard that right. They're similar slimmer water resistant and now coming three jewel tones onyx Ruby and sapphire or black red and blue They're available to order starting today at spectacles.com for a hundred and fifty dollars Wait a minute. Was that 20 more dollars than the previous model? It is justin your math is correct Spectacles go on sale today in the u.s. Canada the united kingdom and france available may third in the netherlands norway dead mark belgium finland poland spain italy in ireland a snap spokesperson also confirmed that the company plans to test A new ad format called commercial six second ads that run in select snap chat shows But not in discover or users personal Story and apparently those six second ads cannot be uh, you can't jump past them To watch them. Yeah All right back to the spectacles Yeah, one thing that that we should make clear is previously spectacles only did video now It can do photos as well, which I think that was one of the biggest things about spectacles that I didn't understand like Not everything I know most of snapchat this video, but come on you want to be able to take photos I mean no, I don't feel snapchat is very much photos. Yeah, right. Okay. So you're with me on this, right? Yeah, it was it was definitely a limitation And yeah, and so so that's better. They're way lighter. They look nicer Uh, so I know they're a little more expensive But these seem more like a product people want to would want to use the battery life is better You can store more on them So you can just wear them. You don't even have to get to worry about the shower with you that you can actually yeah You can actually jump in water. I'm actually mildly optimistic. I'm like this feels like a product that might be worth having Well, look at this man. It's smell a vision, but now it smells even more It's something that people don't want. Tom, let me ask you this among all those fantastic new features Do these spectacles take a selfie? Okay, but no spectacle can ever take a selfie. You're just ditching out the entire format Exactly they can that's what people use snapchat for 90% of snapchat content At least to my anecdotal view are people pointing the camera at themselves Yes, you're right on 100 of what you just said This is a better version of what they had before the question remains though Is this something people want and I say it's no look vampires aren't going to want it because they can't use mirrors for selfies But everybody else has a workaround I just feel like you know The when spectacles first came out and you know, I also happened to live in the city where snap is is You know headquartered so there's you know a little bit more going on Even so at first I would say for the first two months two three months You saw them a lot people were wearing them. Yeah, you know, and you could you could point them out because they looked a certain way I haven't seen anybody wearing spectacles in a year Yeah, because the first version was was not good But I mean the second version they don't look this they still look the same like I don't feel like people Particularly like something that's like it's almost like wearing a t-shirt that says like Gucci Right, but you're like, I don't really want to wear these, you know, it's like super obvious Well, it just has to be cool like I mean if it's supreme then people want to wear it Right because that's a brand that is hot with the kids But this is something where it's obtrusive and it doesn't even do the thing that you want to use the platform for How about some good news nintendo has sold 17.79 million switch consoles since it launched on march 3rd 2017 Nintendo made 178 billion yen. It's about 1.62 billion u.s In operating profit for the year that is a 505 Percent increase year over year. Wow revenue increased 116 percent to 1.06 trillion yen That's almost 10 billion dollars u.s Nintendo believes it'll sell 20 million switch consoles between this month and next march Nintendo also announced that its president and ceo tatsumi kameshima who really was Sort of helping the company make the transition After the death of their previous ceo Uh is stepping down and board member shintaro furukawa will take over as president Uh, this is great news for nintendo everybody during the wii u period was like how long can nintendo last should apple buy them It's over for nintendo They can't compete in the new world of xbox and playstation and the switch has switched that story around Well, it's because the switch is really really really really good and ultimately nintendo did what they do best create an outside the box Uh console that takes advantage of things that nobody else really wants to do They they understood that there is a space between The phone that we have in our pockets that we can play games on and the super high powered pc and console market And ultimately but i'll tell you what even if the switch was the switch And i think this i own a switch it was the first video game console that i bought in many many many years If it weren't for the fact that mario was amazing and zelda was amazing This is not the success that they have had form factors one the gas in the tank is the original ip that they have delivered on Uh a twofold and they still have a couple more major titles yet to go more major properties like tonki kong and metroid and all that kind of stuff Yeah, sarah, uh, you mentioned a daily tech headlines this morning Uh, they they sold 10 million copies of super mario odyssey nine million copies of mario Cart eight deluxe six million copies of splatoon two so and quite a few copies of the of the um the nes um the The the classic. Oh, yeah the snes classic sold sold real well people didn't think they made enough of them They sold so well, i mean nintendo had a good year It also is like i mean you can't really compare this year to last year like no wonder it was up 500 Whatever percent because you know that a console they didn't have one, you know before but good I mean, they had them with you But yeah, it's like they didn't have a console. No, well, but no the we wasn't also a cardi b sales are up 1000 percent Uh, just god love. Yeah Can we go back to amazon guys? Yeah, sure word speaker. Let's call her a right Is getting some new features one is called skills arbitration That will discover enable and launch skills based on the specific thing you're asking her to do She's also getting something called context carryover to better handle follow-up questions Including pronouns. So if I say something about tom, I get a response and then I say he afterwards She will know. Oh, okay. You're still talking about the same person. So she's getting smarter. She's also getting memory enhancements So if for some reason I say, uh, you know, remember someone's birthday or an anniversary She will remember context carryover will be coming to all lexie users in the us as well as users in the uk and germany Skills arbitration and memory will be us only at launch Yeah, so what's the weather in austin and then how about tomorrow that's that's key Like for for this to be widespread. You've got to have that kind of context, but I'll be honest I'm actually even a little more excited Uh about the fact that it'll suggest skills because having to go into the skills store to find a thing to do The thing that I want to do is totally against the the promise of these devices I should be able to just say how do I get a stain out? And it says, oh, well, we've got this home and garden skill that is good for that. I'm going to install it. Is that cool? Yeah, great. All right, here's your answer Yeah, and that was one of the examples that uh an article I read about this this morning is like to your point It's like, I don't know what the skill is for the stain But there are skills that companies have already provided, you know, tide might give me a skill But I don't know to ask for that. Yeah, how would I be able to keep on top of it? What are the tech headlines and that just automatically gives you the daily tech headlines? Exactly, you know, I said because I'm an uh unbearable hipster, I got a Alexa enabled sorry a enabled uh coffee maker and I had to Go find the skill and log into my account that is proprietary to the coffee maker yadda yadda yadda Uh, I think that there is tremendous value in having that be a more proactive exchange that I should feel more comfortable Asking the a for that and then it's saying hey, you know yet you need to sign in I just pinged your phone via an alert in the app and now you'll be it'll chase you down a little bit more Uh, yeah, good good improvements. I think there's a little bit of a security thing that needs to be addressed here because The echo notoriously can be activated by anybody around Uh, and so, you know, do you having more of that voice recognition and knowing which account holder? You're talking to is essential for a stall installing skills. I think but but generally I like these features Let's go back to some more earnings. Samsung said in its earnings report that olad earnings declined due to weak demand and rising competition between rigid olad and ltps lcd Now olad sales rose 3.4 in the latest quarter Apple sources all of its olad panels from samsung samsung's other big customer Is samsung? That's right apple and samsung are the two biggest customers One reason for the impact on samsung and other mobile component suppliers like hon hi and pegetron Is the drop in the chinese market can't canales reports china china smartphone sales Saw a record decline of 21 percent in 91 million units in the first quarter of 2018 apple fell to number five So I think the story is is way over simply reported. Uh, there's a lot of outlets including bloomberg that are saying Hey, looks like all these component suppliers to apple are reporting, uh declines in in their yields Not their yields in in their sales. Yeah, and uh, and therefore you rightly could conclude that iphone 10 sales aren't that great Because olad panels are going into iphone 10 Whereas, you know, you get people like apple insider out there shouting bloomberg is writing a hit piece About apple again and and totally not acknowledging the fact that olad sales are down for multiple reasons And honestly, I think it's a combination This china market dip is huge I that you cannot ignore that china had a record drop in smartphone sales That's going to hit every supplier of every part out there. Absolutely apple falling down in a down market in china Means that apple sales probably took a hit in china for sure. I mean that is fair to say So it's not just iphone 10 sales are falling iphone 10 sales could be up in europe and and the united states And the whole thing being negated by a big drop in china Meanwhile, you can't just look at the components makers because the components makers are all going to see a drop because of a general market drop In the largest smartphone market in the world Well, and and when it comes to ultimately this this became a story because The iphone 10 is the flagship anniversary phone for apple Which is just an an attention heat seeker when it comes to anybody writing about anything in technology So it's it's important context to know that as much as we have come to rely on reading the tea leaves of supply chains And now all of these suppliers which previously unless you were in the business or a very very very China-centric tech reporter nobody knew about That there are things that we have yet to fully wrap our head around when it comes to mainstream I'm just looking at press release tech reporting. We're also a week out from apple's latest earnings So these sorts of stories tend to crop up when you know you get close to that Yeah, no, that's a very good point may 1st is when apple reports their earnings and granted they're not going to come out and say Yeah, you guys are right iphone 10 sales are in the toilet They're gonna make it seem as good as possible, but we'll get some actual numbers Uh, and you'll you'll get a chance to actually divine what's really going on. So yeah, it's it's great Uh, it's almost click click baby. Uh, but it's great reporting ahead of the apple earnings to to say What do we think is really going on? But we'll get a lot more clarity on me Great reporting like just in in italics, maybe thorough reporting. Yeah traffic generating Yeah, I guess my point is it's if it turns out to be right. It's good if it's not then it's misreading the situation chip architect jim keller He's leaving tesla where he overseeing the autopilot program since 2016 When tesla hired keller from amd keller, uh, uh, when tesla, uh, sorry when tesla hired keller from amd keller is going to intel to develop micro processors tesla named pete banoni As taking over the autopilot hardware team banon or banon previously worked with keller at apple Almost responsible for apple's processors ranging from the a5 to the a nine So this is really interesting because jim keller Is a rock store. In fact an antek has a great article sort of summing up the fact that keller Uh, he he worked for pa semi which was then bought by apple Uh, and then he worked for amd and then he went to tesla and now he's going intel So he's he he's putting together the the egot of of working on chips Uh, and and a lot of people say like this is one of the best chip engineers In the world Obviously it takes more than one engineer to make good chips, but if you are trying to really Supercharge a segment of the market like intel is trying to do with embedded systems and low power systems You this is the guy you want uh, and an antek pointed out that they just hired a guy that keller Has frequently worked with including at amd Who works on graphics? His name is raja koduri He serves now as the chief architect leading up the discrete gpu developments at intel So it's it's kind of like a dynamic duo to get keller and koduri together Uh, yeah, I I don't know. I mean, do you think this has anything To do with some of the the the issues that tesla's had with with autopilot or i don't know I mean, it seems like with his pedigree it has more to do with Exciting things intel is working on you know rather than like tesla screwing anything up um, you know, and they're autonomous, um Plans as well, which are vast I I feel like this has less to do with tesla and more to do with keller and intel Um Granted if you're alternate tom the evil version of tom that wrote the hot techs column today at patreon.com Slash d t and s Yeah, you think that may be secretly an ai is running tesla, but that's a conspiracy theory. That's crazy talk Yeah, he probably likes spiders, too What's probably going on is keller just got a better offer to do something that he's more interested in Because intel is like no we we're we're all about chips tesla wants you to make chips to serve Their purpose and that's great But we we want to give you room to room to roam And by the way, that is something that is very common in silicon valley. Yeah, the top talent moves around quite a bit At a march 28th meeting on ethical issues at the u.s. National Institute of Health Yale university neuroscientist ninnad sestan Disclosed that a team he leads have been able to restore circulation to pig brains Roughly four hours after having been separated from their bodies The reanimated brains stayed alive for up to 36 hours in certain instances No evidence of consciousness was seen But billions of cells were capable of normal activity Now the solution that is used to deliver oxygen to the cells in the system Include some chemicals to prevent swelling that also happened to dampen neuronal activity So they're not ruling out the possibility that there could be more in a different setup system The system called brain x is meant to help construct an atlas of brain cell connections It's hard to map the connections when the brain is not active, but if you can take a brain reactivate it Then you can start mapping those connections This is being done with pigs But the question and the reason this was brought up at a meeting on ethical issues was If we want to map the human brain We need to do this with a human brain and is it ethical to Reanimate a human brain. We don't think there's a chance of consciousness in this system but The powers could be used for ill or good Now the results have been submitted to a journal and these remarks from this ethics meeting We're not intended to become public So we don't have all the details yet until that journal article gets published Here's my question and I know this is a dumb question If all of the cells are operating normally What is the switch that you know flips on consciousness? Well, that's the question, right? We don't we don't even when even in my brain right now You can't answer that like nobody knows exactly. Yeah consciousness emerges But the the simpler answer is the neurons can fire and you can map the connections But they they don't work, right? They're not it's the neural neural activity is suppressed So you can't get enough firing going on to actually make Thoughts happen or or or or even collected activity So it's it's sort of like saying I can see down the road, but I can't drive down the road Well, and this is also When we get into futurist technology The idea for infinite life has often been the singularity as as discussed by Kurzweil that We are mapping all of what what we know as our consciousness in our brain Will only as we continue to be able to have sophisticated measurements and the ability to store it on massive uh storage Places that we can upload our consciousness without the wet wear This is hey, no What if we just had like the brain was the the the hard drive, right? And and if we could preserve it and turn it back on Theoretically when you are in Another when you have another vessel, right? Is is that the the futurist? Uh step that is more likely than us understanding exactly how everything works and being able to just put it into a zip drive And no matter what I mean These these brains have been off for four hours. There's there's damage Uh, which means on the one hand It's less likely that they're really operating and sensing at full value But also if you didn't have suppressing going on of neuronal activity Uh, you know, and if if the light bulbs weren't just glowing, but they were flashing and connecting with each other Uh, is that worse because now you've got a half working brain that might be able to sense itself and has no connection to a body mind And this is why So so to map the connections you want to do this, right? But you want to do it in a way that isn't Mad or inhumane, which is why they're bringing it up at an ethical issues discussion to say Hey guys, we think we figured out how to make this work. So now what uh now, what do we do? And there there have been uh, there there has been a letter signed by sestin and several other scientists Saying nobody should proceed farther than x y and z Uh without agreement, uh, you know, they they are proceeding very responsibly and very cautiously And they should but also come on, baby. Let's get let's get this party started, man. I'm not trying to die ever Oh, I am I don't even want to be old Oh, no, but what if you're living in a simulation anyway? You're gonna be hearing me mangle curse wild for uh, uh eons Get ready. We'll find out soon enough. Yeah, so I guess my grandkids will decide for me Uh, sestin published an editorial arguing that experiments on human brain tissue should require special protections and rules That's in nature right now. So sestin is the guy leading the team that's doing the pig brain thing He's saying we should not do this with human brains until we've really figured out What the ramifications are for that Um, but yeah, man, I my worry. I've said this before I'll I'll be the last person to die like to figure it all out. Justin will be, you know, living forever And I'll be like, oh, man. I was just a day late Well, Tom that's a very uh, that's a very telling statement Look at Tom thinks he's gonna be the last one standing No, last last last person not standing last. No. No. Yeah. No, Tom the last brain die You know, yes firing Uh, folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day at about five minutes subscribe to daily tech headlines dot com You can also get it on your amazon echo your google play or the anchor app What do we have in the mailbags hara? Brian d from as we go new york had some real nice things to say and also some real nice things to say about Some folks that we used to work with, um Jason howell and megan maroney who do uh tech news weekly formally tech news today Brian said sucked when they went to a weekly show because I really missed the daily show I really liked them But I slowly began a search for a new equally as good tech news show And came upon d tns Within the first two weeks I became a patron. Oh, welcome boss. Thank you, Brian. Thanks very nice thing to say Yeah, uh, well, thanks to everybody who participates in our sub reddit and our facebook group You can submit stories and vote on them at daily tech news show dot reddit dot com And uh joining some good discussions. I was I was popping in there today I had some good discussions in the facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash daily tech news show Thanks also to justin robert young twice in one week. What in the heck? Good stuff. What's been going on in your world? Oh, well, you know, I'm gonna go see avengers tonight And marvel or dc now i'm kidding. You stop it. You're just trolling at this point. You're just looking for emails, uh But uh, but folks, of course, you can always follow my political newsletter at a free political newsletter dot com The politics politics politics daily will bring you all of the ridiculous and sublime Of the political world including everything that you need to know to move on as a citizen Of america and the world and also kanye west news. Uh, so Yes, we will be talking all that and we did talk about all that on the politics politics politics podcast Which you can get apple google play everywhere you get podcasts Fired from his dream job Fired fired Uh folks, please peruse our fine selection of branded gear at daily tech news show dot com slash store It's a great way to show off your pride in daily tech news show and spread the word to others in fact and cb bought in bulk A bunch of dtns mugs and then put them up in his office kitchen So that people going to get coffee have a wide variety of daily tech news show mugs to choose from that is so cool Thank you for doing that Uh, man, that's that that's fantastic. Uh, you only have to buy one mug You don't have to do what he did unless you really want to and they're all available at daily tech news show dot com slash store Also, I got this patreon message that warmed my heart yesterday David wrote I was driving my seven-year-old to school this morning And as I often do on my morning commute I was finishing listening to the previous day's episode of dtns When we got to the part of the show where tom asks for just one more patron each month My son looked up from his video game and asked dad Do we do that? To which I proudly responded Yes, son we do A smile slowly crept across his face as he responded Good and returned to his video game. Well, kids Thank you for not only bringing us fantastic reporting on each day's top tech news But also for a fun family bonding experience Dave from too damn sunny not enough rainy los angeles and sun p s Did I mention that he actually looked up from his video game? That's huge. That is huge That's something tom that made my day Yeah, that was real nice and hi david son. Hi david son Um, I'd like to know what is your favorite video game Yeah, what are you been playing? Maybe you can uh, maybe you can send us an email it in fact Anybody who wants to send us an email feedback at daily tech news show dot com is our email address You have questions. You have feedback. You have comments anything. We'd love to hear it We're also live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m eastern 20 30 utc And you can find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live It's our end of the month round table episode tomorrow with our all canadian guests amber macarthur jen cutter and chiston Tristan jute dress plus lenperalta. Who's not canadian? Uh, but is a cavaliers fan. They'll all join us tomorrow talk to you there cleveland's canada, I think This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frogpants.com Good show good show gents Earnings to pig brains Ah, some would say there's no real differentiator between yeah, I mean There was a point of the pig brain story where I was just like What are we talking about? Like It's like Well, I love this story because there's there's always stories like this like scientists think they've done this this time It's like, oh no, we we really did it crap. What do we do now? Yeah, exactly. What? So wait, so does that mean they can defrost, uh, Walt disney's head and no it has yeah, it does not mean that that's a good No, disney has nothing to do with that disney has passed Um All right titles The ham with two brains Let's break see I knew tomlin like that one. Yeah It doesn't really that it doesn't really make sense. No, it doesn't But if you know the movie the man with two brains, uh starting steve martin and is it lily tomlin or no No, you're thinking of um All of me Really good movie but very different um The man with two brains so funny though Uh, oh That was it um Thus we got mit experiments with mit experiments with mind over bacon mind over bacon is good Until chips away at tesla Oh, that's funny chips away. Yeah, get it clever stuff Um, although I do like the ham with two brains is my favorite I mean, you guys had to explain it to me. I get that it's funny, but like yeah I doubt I doubt a lot of people. It's probably funnier to me than it is the most You gotta be you gotta be old like us to get the joke. Well, you know, I you know two out of three Uh What are we calling it then? All right, um mit experiments with mind over bacon Ah, there's something with the pig. I want to do something with the pig What what if we just called it mind over bacon? Yeah, I'd be good with that Oh by the way, uh Folks who are patrons You should have already got your, uh Dts labs interview with jack conti CEO of patreon Everybody else will get it on saturday. It'll go out in the regular feed on saturday Super cool. Yeah, we had a great interview talking about patreon and and jack agreed Well, I want to have them back and just talk about the internet in general just Like how the internet works, but we had a good almost half hour worth of talk just about The fiasco and how patreon decides, you know, how to set the limits on how its platform is used and all that stuff Um, I'm glad to hear it went well I I've always liked those guys. Uh, when was it recorded? Well, yesterday afternoon nice, uh, any any hot tidbits any any any, uh, uh 10 six changes No, it's funny I kept trying to because in these interviews what I like to do is is just have a conversation with somebody About their thing, right? So I kept trying to steer it more broad Like The the most interesting thing we talked about for me was change management and how people don't realize like that's a thing Like knowing when you can make a change that nobody's going to care about And when they're going to care a lot is a skill that companies have to have and the bigger the company The more difficult it is. Well, and clearly you think like, uh, you know, if you're good enough, you know If you have a robust enough PR team, you'll never get it wrong Oh, hell no, it happens all the time all the time So I kept trying to steer it into a broad conversation about that and he kept going right back like, you know What we screwed up on is is this this is what we did wrong. So uh It's it definitely is him Trying to let people know and I've heard him do this in public before like, yeah, we we we made mistakes We're we're not trying to pretend we didn't Well, it's a humbling experience um, and it also, you know Once the you know sort of fall out, you know, it kind of calms down I think and you know, most companies would agree It's a really good learning experience to be like, you know, we didn't realize this about our user base Now we do well and that's the general principle. I was getting to was We have the same thing on dts I've I've changed all kinds of things on dts that no one's ever even noticed right Those are the things that most people are like, whatever. I don't care if you do it x y or this way or that way A couple of times I've changed something that people are like, whoa, what are you doing? Uh, and then most of the time if I if I feel like, okay, this is a bigger thing I I spend a lot of time talking with people in the audience about it as much as I can But but it's, you know, people think, oh, it's obvious. You always talk to your audience Well, no, you don't you don't you don't talk about your audience about every single thing especially in Software companies engineering companies where you have to change something every day Like you're constantly evolving You you can't just go and worry about every little thing and the audience would get bugged or like We don't care if it's yellow five or yellow four Let's do it, you know Yeah, I think part of it is understanding what the key Passions and connections are between an audience product and where decisions affect that and and That I think is ultimately where patreon got themselves into trouble was Understanding it on one level and not understanding how broad the passion and the connection Uh was and by passion and connection. I mean how I pay my rent, but Well, and he talks about that in our interview of like this. This is what we did wrong This this is why we think we missed this and this is what we're doing now to try to not make that same mistake again Yeah Uh, yeah, I think and that's the thing is like for patreon Hey add your lens feature. Cool Uh, uh create new categories. In fact do a whole redesign on the website Fine people might even be a little cheesed off because they got a process and now it's a different process Everybody will be able to figure it out Uh what they had to learn the hard way was you need to think A million and a half times over before you take away an option in terms of payment. Yeah That and and that he mentions that particularly he's like, you know One of the big problems was this had to do with money and and and once you involve money It's a entirely different conversation And and it's super important to our creators, you know, because that's how they pay their bills Well, and not to mention the fact that now all of a sudden everybody's you know, and uh Amateur sleuth and they're digging through uh, uh, you know the twitter account of everybody who's ever worked at patreon And finding any time that they've ever said that they like money Right, right the thing and that's that's part of why I think You know and that's look the good news is a lot of people care about your product the bad news is a lot of people care about your product That's why I try to have a marginally popular product Too bad mo money mo problems Exactly that's the patreon tagline You know the money is the root of all headaches Although a friend of mine who has a lot more money than I do a lot more said that to me today You know, it's a it's all relative having more money doesn't really solve anything and I was like Solves certain things. Uh, well, this is the this is the I was like, okay all right Because it's true would be solved I I feel like I have an understanding of this and Anytime someone wealthy says this to someone less wealthy the let it's it's not okay Because the less well less wealthy person is like sure Yeah, like do you not want your money? Like maybe more comfortable But you don't have the worry that you're going to get kicked out of your house You don't have the worry that you're going to starve like the level of the problems does It's relative. Well, it is relative and there are lots of things regarding happiness that don't change I think that's why people who are wealthy say that But there there are more existential threats Yeah, there are lots of day-to-day solutions that I usually just money really fixes Yeah, you need to do is tell your wealthy friend that People who are well off tend to die sooner So if they want to see uh, the ripe old age of 90 or something past that they should offload some of that cash Yeah, I see The wealthy people will be able to do the pig brain thing and the rest of us will just die when we're dying All right No, it's it's I you know, it is I'm not saying anything that anyone doesn't already know But sometimes you know when people are like, you know, I'm still really unhappy even as wealthy as I am. I'm like Well Maybe you would like to deal with some of my day-to-day things Well, and see neither so you get you can get in a really heated argument real way if you just lose your empathy Right, but the fact of the matter is like yeah, money doesn't make you happy It doesn't make you happy But money certainly makes those existential threats left. So it's it's a difficult situation because neither side Thinks the other side understands Um, I think it was Johnny Depp, but once said Uh, who's you know, obviously has a lot of money He said money won't buy you happiness, but it will buy you a yacht to sail up right next to the island where your happiness is Money he also has an island in the Bahamas so comfort Well, I mean, yeah, Johnny Depp also, uh now possibly broke because he bought too many yachts to sail up next to too many islands Hard to say Hard to say Let me say that dude's gonna be doing pirates movies until he's uh, you know, five years after he's dead and they're still paying off It's Pirates of the Caribbean marvel or DC. No, I'm just kidding No, what he's gonna do is he's gonna keep doing Pirates of the Caribbean I'm sorry Fish are lame, but there's a Keith Richards like bio pick out. He'll be cast Yeah, uh That is not a new thought Keith Richards probably needs to pass on No, they cast Keith Richards as his father in pirates here. Oh, no, I I am very well aware of that. Okay I'm just saying that's what's gonna happen Uh, sure. And you know what else is gonna happen sun's coming up tomorrow Good The way that Johnny presumptuous Uh was not only owning houses but owning Like this enemy was some ridiculous. It was like $300,000 a month like per house to have a staff of people just to buy wine Like to curate his wine collection This is Johnny Depp Johnny Depp Well, you know, he has that tattoo called, uh, that's uh, wine over ever It didn't make him happy either Didn't no No, he got uh, he he lost out to mr. Steel. Yo girl. He won musk Oh gosh Yeah, that's now we're getting into some about this. I don't want all the money in the world I just need enough so I don't have to worry about bills on a monthly basis Well, but even that's relative. Yeah, that that is one of those relative things like if you're just talking about bills There's always something you're gonna worry about Johnny Depp's like do you think Johnny Depp wanted to do the last three pirates movies? No, he had that that bill for everybody curating his wine collection. That's a monthly bill Yeah, but I got I got like monthly health insurance Yeah, no, but that never goes away I think that's what the wealthy people are saying is like you think that money is gonna solve all your problems Why are you taking where are you taking the stand of both sides? Because what the with the wealthy people don't get about people saying yeah, but it doesn't solve every it does solve a lot is like Yeah, but you don't ever have to worry about starving. You don't have to worry about not having shelter Yeah, you just you invent the angst for yourself Like and it's not like it's not that it's not real But I mean if you can just Sweep away all the stuff that everybody has to worry about on a on a daily basis like any incredibly ridiculously wealthy people listening to this podcast Gladly remove some of those troublesome dollars off your hands just back us on patreon at the $100,000 a month level you'll never miss it Because I don't really want to like worry about winning the lottery anymore because that doesn't seem to be working So Oh, you know why it's because you don't have faith you need to have faith Oh, right. I don't believe enough. You are too cynical when you go in I don't understand. You don't understand the the various forces at play I mean, of course the biggest one is yeah It's my own ignorance You guys want to play a quick game. Yeah. Oh, yeah, sure headline CBS san francisco bay area kpix Junkies take over corridors of san francisco Bart station Which bart station are they talking about and bercadero? No, I think it's a week No, the 24th So wait, you're going 24th. Oh wait For the mission 24th admission 16th admission that that little rotunda. I refer to as homeless congress Yeah, they meet in the round. Yeah, it's not a great one I'm calling 16th. You say 16th The initial was in bercadero, sarah. Are you are you are you waffling or are you gonna lock it in? I'll lock it in. I'll lock it in lock it in over three civic center Course that's where I used to go Civic center if I'd really thought about it civic center would have been my number two I still would have said 16th first. There is a hearty center makes sense outside of the civic center That if I were writing an urban fantasy novel, it would be where like demons of the night and Like fallen angels would meet Under I I guarantee it's still cleaner than it was back in the 80s. I don't know roger I was here. I was the entire remember going to the main library, which is right next to city hall The entire back lawn of city hall was a homeless encantment. Well, it definitely still is No, no, no, no, I mean like you couldn't even I'd even noticed the trees before Because there were just so many that it was literally now they just cut them Civic center was my stop for zd tv and tech tv And which doesn't make a lot of sense because you still had to go away south Well, yeah, that was I mean, I'd I'd take the civic center and then I'd get off and I could I could take the 14 I think down The 14 Place where I'd get out and get off bart. Yeah, it was always bad Uh, when I went to patreon in january for a meeting nearby nearby I stayed near the civic center And because it was convenient to patreon and I think it was worse than it was back in 2000 I like guys I lived at civic center for three years My last three years of san francisco, which is part of the reason that I moved to los angeles because I had to get out of soma It was a nightmare That is not It it will really kill your spirit it will I I've been I've been doing uh Shows at the what's it called piano fight theater in uh the tenderloin The tenderloin adjacent to the tello. Yeah, I mean Except there's the ed the south southern edge of the tenderloin Not only not only is the tenderloin the worst it has gotten worse every year that I have lived here but it is Like roaming people roaming into the streets like it is it is. Oh, I mean roaming into the streets is like no big deal roaming in the streets Uh chasing you with a knife. Yeah And on that note any final words before I know we don't need to hear we're gonna change the way we end the stream I think We'll just say goodbye to the to the live video. Bye if you want to hear more of this conversation Make sure to download why wouldn't you good day internet file from patreon.com slash dtns. See you tomorrow