 Run it up, do run it back, yeah. Run it up, do run it back, run it back, run it up, run it back, yeah. Good Tuesday morning. Whoa, welcome to Run It Back on FanDuelTV. I feel like our style is sort of morphing into we're all becoming the same person. And I don't hate it, by the way. Shamsherania coming to us from Chicago Stadium inside of Shams, is it better today? No, it's still like negative 10 degrees. So we're going to be going through it for at least the next 24 hours. But we're okay, we're survivors. We're going to make it happen. I'm going to keep asking. Chandler has gone from one decent climate to another. He's out here in the window, but on a red eye. So let's see what we get out of him today. And Lou will come into us from Atlanta. Do you have good weather? We are dealing with bad weather as well. We got a freeze warning. So all the kids are out of school. So it's going to be a long day. Lord. Okay, it's going to be a long day for you. Good, good, good. Not as long. Segue time as it's going to be for the Warriors. Oh my goodness. They got Draymond back. I guess there's a silver lining. But the Grizzlies didn't have four of their starters, and somehow they still beat this Warriors team. 116, 107, Vince Williams Jr. Of course it was a career high 24. Gigi Jackson, a career high 23. Yes, youngest player in the league. Steph had 26 and eight. And Draymond, in case you're wondering, came off the bench with 7.7 rebounds for assists. After the game, he was asked about the defense. I have pride in yourself as a man, but I'm not going to let my gosh score. And our closeouts was too soft. Our rotations were too slow. So it's just no pride. Like until every guy take pride in themselves and want to stop the guy in front of them. What's up? That could have literally been like the Eagles after their game. But Lou, let me ask you this. He just got back. This is his job. He is a leader of this team. Do you agree with everything he said? You have to. You know, obviously they're still putting up a lot of points on the board. And, you know, they're just not getting stops. You know, the identity of this team in the past that's been successful has been as electrifying as they have been on the offensive end. They've been a pretty good defensive team. You know, they're pairing with Andre Guadala and Draymond being out there quarterbacking the defense. You know, that's probably, that's somebody that we hadn't talked about a lot that, you know, this team is missing. Andre Guadala was one of those guys that was really, he was really, he was key for their defense and it's just not working out for them. So, you know, like he said, you got to take pride in all of these things. And so I'm going to have to agree with them. It's going to be bad for them until they start sitting down and guarding somebody and getting stops and putting points on the board as well. He's back, Chandler. Yeah, you know what? My problem is, yes, their defense was bad and they had 19 turnovers which turned to 30 points and they couldn't defend without foul. They gave up 40 free throws and they shot 10. You know, it's going to be hard to win games when you do that. But to me, this is more about Memphis and this is more about a classic case of, you know, guys that no one's ever heard of getting an opportunity and taking full advantage of it. And there's guys that we've never heard of, like that were playing harder than a team whose dynasty is dwindling away and that just doesn't sit right. And shout out to, you know, this guy, Vince Williams. He was, he looked like the best player on the floor at parts of the game last night. Gigi Jackson has 23 and six, going five, eight from three. You know, this was a collective effort with a guy, with a bunch of guys trying to make it this league with Jared Jackson Jr. And they went and handled business. So yes, the Warriors are struggling. Yes, the Warriors defense needs to be a lot tighter, a lot better. But to me, this is more about the Grizzlies coming out and proving everybody that they can play and take advantage of that opportunity. I do like the idea that guys that we didn't know, this is their moment in the sun, take it. But the rock bottom of it all is this, can we consider this rock bottom for the Warriors? Had we already hit rock bottom for the Warriors, Chandler? Like when does that kick in and the turnaround start? Yeah, this is rock bottom. It doesn't get much worse than this. You put this team with so short handed with no Marcus Smart, no Bane, no Jackson. I mean, no John Moran, it's a very bad loss. It's equivalent to losing to the Pistons right now. It's, it's that bad. This team is clearly their season is in the drain. They're trying to, they're trying to lose games pretty much. And then they go and have guys like this that go and outperform, you know, you're of that guys. And so, yeah, I think that, I think that facility today is pretty low. And I think that the urgency has even picked up a little bit more. Yeah, I don't think they're all the way at rock bottom, but you know, they're getting close. It's the lightest starting to dim a little bit on this group. You know, we mentioned when we discussed it yesterday, you know, this team is still only a game and a half out of, out of the 10 spotting and being in a position to be in a play in. So if they can string some, some wins together, I feel like they can dig their cells out of a hole and at least give themselves an opportunity to compete in the post-season. But if they don't, if they start losing games like this when other teams don't have their star guys in and you're losing to a, you know, role players and second group guys, it's going to be, it's going to be a long second half for the season coming out of that all-star break. I love it. Luce still sees the light, positive energy and have that. Shams, the temperature of this team, do they feel a sense of helplessness at this point? Steph Curry to me said it best last week when he said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again. And I think that's what the sense is around these warriors is that they've thrown a bunch of lineups together, they've had players, you know, show their frustration publicly, privately. There's been a lot behind the scenes and that's why I think Steph Curry spoke to it. There's an understanding that changes for this team could happen. And that's why there's going to be a level of frustration because this group, especially this vet, the core group, the core vet group, they've won year after year after year and so there's got to be a level of frustration with how the season is playing out, being out of the playing tournament, being under 500. Andrew Wiggins is the name that everyone around the league is going to talk about. He's the likely name when you look at this roster. But like I said last week, everyone on this roster is on the table, except for Steph and Curry. And so that raises red flags if you're part of this team and Steve Kerr being the last year of his deal, there's no sign of an extension right now. There's just so much hanging up in the air for the Warriors and Clay Thompson last night, four of 10 from the field. We know he can get hot at any moment. He's a rhythm player, but he struggled last night and the Grizzlies bench, like Chandler said, you have to give them credit. They score 57 points off the bench. They had eight available players last night, including their two ways, the Warriors 35 points off their bench and they had Kaminga coming off the bench, they had Dream on Green coming off their bench. So from a talent perspective, the Grizzlies, what they were able to do, you have to give them a lot of credit. It's impressive. It's a hell of a win. Lew, look, they're in a weird position. You have one of the greatest dynasties, much of that sitting right in front of you. Do you give the core another shot? Is there a world in which you could envision them just ripping this whole thing up and shipping people off for new pieces, everyone but Steph? Yeah, I think they start to move on. I mean, this core has had an opportunity to still contend for a title. They've been there and they just hadn't been getting it done. It's been a slow leak for this team and getting worse and worse. And so now you're at a point, like we said, they're hitting rock bottom, they're close to rock bottom, they're competing, trying to get into a play-in spot, not a solidified playoff position. So they've had opportunities. They've had a lot of those guys, those three guys, I feel like can win a lot of basketballs. It's not a lot of basketball games. It's not happening right now. So they've had an opportunity. So I think at this point, you start to play the field and see what's out there for your team to get better. You agree, Chandler? Yeah, I think that I don't think they can win. I don't think they can compete for championship with this team. And like Sean said, I think Andrew Wiggins, he's the obvious one to go first, right? He's the trade that's not gonna disrupt the fan base. He's the trade that's not gonna disrupt that locker room. And then I think Dre Mom would be next and then Clay Thompson, if you really wanna go get that far. But I don't think they can really afford to move Kaminga either. We're talking about he's the only real star potential player that they have that's a young asset. He's still raw, but he's extremely talented. So I would try and hang on to Kaminga and I would try to hang on with Steph Curry, obviously. But then besides that, this team's not winning. Get rid of Moody, get rid of Wiggins, get rid of everybody. But those two to me gotta stay. So at least you have an asset going forward that has that star potential. It's my brain is having a hard time processing all of that happening. But I get it. You gotta look at Steve Kerr at some point, Lou. How much of the blame does he get? Listen, he's been a huge part of the success story. He's become a Hall of Fame coach due to the success that he's had with this group. He deserves a part in the blame as well. You can't get these guys to operate at a high level or the level that your organization in the city of San Francisco and the Bay Area in general is looking forward to going to those games and rooting on your team. You gotta share the blame as well. So I'm gonna give him 50-50. Everything that they've been able to accomplish, he's a part of it. Everything that's going wrong, he's also been a part of it. So he has to share that blame. Yeah, hell yeah. He's got high responsibility. And we're seeing how he's handled this adversity when the team is struggling more than they probably ever have. Outside of that year where they were unhealthy and they tanked and then drafted James Wiseman, which was brutal as well. This has been the most frustrated, disruptive, kind of annoyed team I've seen a really, really long time for them. So yeah, I think a lot of that obviously falls on the players and it falls on the talent that's on the floor that's out there every night, winning and losing games. But Steve Kerr also has to make adjustments. He's got to also make changes. Mike Dunley, he's got to step up to play. I know it's a big rob, a big role in his first year. So this falls on everybody, man. There's not just a fall of a dynasty of one or two players. This is for an office, this is coaches, this is everybody. So Steve Kerr definitely has to, you know, step up here and make the proper adjustments or this season is just going to keep getting worse and worse for these guys. Seems like it's going to last forever. All right, that's the Warriors. The other team in California, Lakers. They had a nice game last night taking on a young Thunder squad, a LeBron AD leading them team, 112, 105 over Oklahoma City. Anthony Davis finished with 27 and 15. LeBron with 25, seven rebounds, six assists. SGA, 24 and six and the win. Look, I mean, this is such a every day is a different story with this Lakers team, Lou. I'm almost out of questions. Who are they? There, let's just do that. Who are they and how do we process this team? I think they're a veteran group that feels like if they're in the play-in or in the playoffs, they're going to have an opportunity to win. And so they're still tinkering with lineups, still trying to figure out who plays well together and just trying to find a rhythm. I don't think they've hit the panic button. I feel like any team that you have LeBron James on, as well as Anthony Davis, you're going to give yourself an opportunity to win games. And I think they know that. I think they have the confidence in knowing that coming out of the second half of the season. But they got to get going. I think they understand the urgency at this point that they got to start going and start getting quality wins. Yeah, that's a big time done. But they got to start getting quality wins. And like I said, they always feel like they can win games. And so I think that's why you still see them mixing and matching lineups at this point of the season. So they're still trying to find their identity. Yeah, these are the type of wins that make you not count out the Lakers because everyone talks about how good the Thunder are, how young they are explosive. And the Lakers just handle business. LeBron, AD, Dominate, Darvin, Ham. I love what he did, which we're going to get there next with the lineup adjustments, switching up the starting lineup. But these are the type of wins, like Lou said, where this is what makes them dangerous. I know it's just a regular season win in January, but this team is going to be tough to become postseason because they have a little bit of everything. They have the talent, they have the experience. They're an older team that's went through a bunch last year. And so they're used to adversity. So listen, keep racking up wins like this against, you know, a team that they're going to eventually have to go through. They're going to continue to get better and better. We are going to get to that actually now, the lineup. Oh, go ahead. Look, I'm sorry, Michelle, and for the Lakers, they probably don't feel like, OK, see, is the measuring stick. You know, they probably still feel like, even at the 10 spot, they're probably one of the teams that everybody has to go through, you know? And Chandler can attest to this in his career. Usually what happens is veteran teams are going to get better throughout the season. The young teams who are on fire early on, they're going to dwindle out. You know, that's usually the pattern of how this thing goes. And so if, OK, see, can stay pat, they're going to be a lot of trouble. But listen, if you're dealing with the Los Angeles Lakers in the first round or we're in a play-in, it's going to be a hard situation for them. And so that's what I see in this Lakers team that's still at 500 pace. It's a good point too, Lucas, because the Lakers, they're looking at the nuggets. They're looking at the clippers. You know, maybe the Timberwolves and Mazz, but when you get a team like this, that does move the ball and get rid of them on offense. And then they kept the Thunder and 20-point quarters, all four quarters. I feel like you'd never see that nowadays in the NBA. Like, you just see 30, 40-point quarters. So when the Lakers defend, and then LeBron set up the game last night, they get high assist games, they're tough. And I love the point you just made about the measure stick. Lakers are looking at this young up-and-coming team. Sure, for the future. Right now they think we'll beat the Thunder in a series. Ooh, at some point that's not going to happen anymore. Can we talk lineup shams? Because it was AD, LeBron, Austin, D'Angelo. That's four of the starters from their Western Conference final squad last year. Darvin Ham is obviously under the gun as far as what he's going to do with the lineup from game to game. Tell us about this one. Yeah, the lineup is the major reason why there's been that disconnect internally with the Lakers in the locker room. Austin Reeves, D'Angelo Russell in the backcourt. You have LeBron James, Torrey and Prince Anthony Davis. And that's starting five. Darvin Ham spoke to it after the game, providing shooting, providing scoring around LeBron James and Anthony Davis. And D'Angelo Russell in that backcourt with Austin Reeves, 29 points last night. They combined for three three-pointers as well. So having that scoring in the backcourt and D'Angelo Russell playing point guard, LeBron James had played point guard over the last month or so of the season. And it's taxing, it takes a lot out of him for sure. He did it in the bubble year in 2020. But we haven't seen LeBron James play full-time at the point guard since then. So having D'Angelo Russell in your lineup, having Austin Reeves in your lineup, allowing him to play on the wings, play off the ball a little bit more. And listen, the Lakers are still targeting D'Angelo Murray. I think that pursuit is going to continue. But in the meantime, you have to see what you have here with D'Angelo Russell and Austin Reeves. Because this group, this five, again, Jared Vanderbilt, Torian Prince, that can be interchangeable. But they went to the Western Conference finals last year. That is the core lineup. That's the core group that made the run for you last year. And so Darvin Ham went back to them last night. And I'm curious from Chandler and Lou's perspective, being a player, like how do you handle it? And how do you feel? Like, do you feel like it should have came sooner for Darvin Ham and the Lakers? I mean, I like the adjustment because you see the struggle and ever since the end season tournament and they needed a change. So you got to credit Darvin Ham on this. And it does give them more firepower. It gives them more shooting. It's just now it's on Darvin Ham to make those proper adjustments, right? Like now does he split AD in LeBron's minutes? Now, how does he handle these rotations to keep that binge productive and not kind of being so front-loaded in the starting lineup? So I do like it. I think right now they're kind of at ends with me trying to figure out what's the best way to use D'Angelo Russell. What's the most we can get out of him right now when he's currently a Laker? So I like it. They're struggling, mix it up, put your best five players on the floor and then figure out your rotations afterwards. I was just going to say, Chandler, the reality is this team is not as deep as they thought they were. They're not getting the production that they wanted to get out of some of these guys. You just got to put your best players on the floor to start basketball games and give you an opportunity to win. It's that simple. That makes it sound very simple. Actually, Sean, I love you. I mean it. See you in the morning. We're sticking around. When we come back, we'll be joined by Lakers Guard, Skylar Mays. And he can talk about how Lou was an old man. Last time he saw him. That'll be fun. When Run It Back returns. Run it back, yeah, yeah. Run it back, run it back, run it back, run it back, run it back. Yeah, Sky. All right, there he is. Skylar Mays joining us now assigned a two-way, what, like a week ago? Play for the Hawks, play for the Blazers. Skylar, welcome. By the way, you're just tuning in. This green thing, absolute coincidence. Great minds kind of a moment. I have no idea what's going on. Skylar, you played with Lou in Atlanta. I'm so curious what kind of mentor, like wise old man advice, he was able to give you your time together. Yeah, Lou is great, man. Lou is, you know, as you know, Lou loves to talk. So he was definitely willing to give advice all the time and made sure that the young guys were caught up and just paying attention all the time. Skylar, you've already played in two games for the Lakers. Tell us how, you know, how that experience has been so far. It's been great, you know, obviously everything's magnified here. So, you know, we're an older group and you know, I'm just kind of come in trying to, you know, learn what we want to do offensively and defensively and, you know, just trying to get my feet wet. Coming from Atlanta, playing next to Trey, I'm sure they had his experiences and now you're in LA with LeBron. Tell me what's that like? How has that been playing next to LeBron? Well, I'll say for both players, that, you know, they play from the head up, you know, definitely are great at picking the game apart and, you know, running the show. I'll say LeBron probably has it at the highest level. You know, he truly is a genius when you just hear him talk basketball. And, you know, he is just such a great command for the game and, you know, it's been great. I've only been here, you know, coming up on two weeks. So I'm excited to pick up more and more each day because I'm really in learning every day from him. Kind of exciting. The Trey Young and Atlanta Hawks when you got to play with him, I think so many of us are curious. We don't, we only have what we have when people tell us what it's like. So behind closed doors, behind what's going on in there. Trey Young is a teammate. How is he? He's great. You know, I think he's, I think he's a little more quiet, you know, off the court. But, you know, he's definitely about his business. He comes to work every day. He, you know, wants what's best for his teammates. Wants what's best for himself. And, you know, just because they do the right things on and off the court and lead. Yeah, Skyler, after playing for the Hawks you played in Delaware in the G League. In your opinion, what's the biggest difference from the G League and obviously now NBA life? Well, I think there's a huge learning curve. You know, most of the guys in the G League are, you know, in their first or second year, you know, just trying to learn the NBA sets, you know, kind of the universal sets that every team runs. And, you know, the pace is different. So from college. So everyone is, you know, really trying to learn and trying to put their best foot forward. And I'd say, you know, they play harder on a night-to-night basis. Scott, I played in the G League when it was called a D League. And they were still trying to figure it out. I'm pretty sure it's a lot nicer now than it was back then. It was like I almost played for the tropics. Like in real life, that was the experience. It was like really playing for the tropics. But you also played in Mexico. What was the experience like? I loved Mexico. The weather's kind of like out here, you know, 75 every day. Obviously a different culture in that, you know, that language barrier was rough for me. And I was only out there a month, but they definitely embraced me and actually, you know, gave me a real chance to find my way back into the league. So playing in Mexico, the city was great to me. I played with guys like Kenneth Fareed, you know, Gary Clark, Oliver Vett. So I had a hell of a time out there and, you know, really got a taste of Mexico for sure. Yeah, so we asked pretty much everybody when they come on the show, Schuyler. Everyone has their MBA. Welcome to the MBA moment. Me and Lou at ours. What was yours? Oh, dear. Um, I've got a funny one that actually includes Lou. Lou is actually like the reason the shortest amount of time I played in the game is actually because of Lou. So I was, I was, I don't even know Lou remember this because we didn't even talk about it. But Lou, this is before you and Rondo got traded, got caught up in that trade to bring you to Atlanta. But you were with the Clippers. It's like the end, going on the end of the third quarter and, you know, I'm a rookie, I'm getting no tick at all. So I'm on the bench, you know, this is like during the COVID and we still got our masks on. I'm on the bench talking, talking with Nate, the other two way and we're just chopping it up and I go up to get my drink and we're cracking jokes. And it's like six seconds left to finish the third and I'm going to grab a drink and Coach Pierce calls me in and I'm completely not ready. Jersey knocked tucked in. I'm just like, I haven't played for a month and a half. So he calls me in, I'm rushing to the bench. I'm taking all my stuff off and I get it. I'm guarding the tomb and Lou's the one bringing the ball up and bringing the Lou Lou. Before they take the ball out, Lou looks down the bench. He sees that I just got in and he literally points at me and obviously him and Batum have that connection. They come in, ball comes in, Lou comes down, they run it goes, I'm switched on the Lou and Lou's going left. It's like I've seen him do a million times, home face gets me in the air. I jump, bat on the three, Lou makes all three, as I'm out for the rest of the day. Four seconds. That's when I walk into the NBA moments. To classic, classic. Lou, you're a real turd sometimes, I swear. Skyler, this has been an absolute pleasure. Good luck the rest of the way. We appreciate the time. Good luck, Skyler. We'll take a quick break here. We come back, we'll take a look around the league when Run It Back returns. Run It Back, yeah. Run it up. Run It Back, Run It Back, yeah. Champ all ready. Oh my God, he's down. One-to-one authentic. I don't see no competition, yeah. One-byte, down it. Fall on them, baby. I mean, there's the video. There's the background. There's the man. Four-time NBA champ John Sally joining us now. Hold on. What's going on with your back on this morning? I'm in out of space. I'm always in out of space. Obviously. I'm not an alien. I'm in out of space. What's happening? Good vibes. No, this is good, man. We want to talk about everything, honestly, and pick your brain a little bit. So much going on in the league. I think the big story last night has to be the return of Draymond after the long suspension. Coming off the bench, they don't look great. For you, in your opinion, does he need to change the way he plays? Are they at rock bottom? What is your take on the way this Warriors team looks right now? I was with, you know, not the Bragg, but you know, Chicago Bulls had us in for the Ring of Honor last week. I'm sitting next to Steve Kerr and I go, when's Draymond coming back? He said, Monday against Memphis. He goes, sound, they scored 75 on us in the first half. I said, I know, this is why I asked why. Where's Draymond? So I believe he's the energy. I said this on another show that I won't mention undisputed. And I said that I thought he was the energy of the squad. And you know, you can be upset with the way he is, the way he comes in. But I've never seen, well, I haven't seen in a long time a player who plays every game and who is intense and inside of that game. Now, yeah, he did grab somebody by the neck in a full Nelson, which I totally understand. This is some people that walk up to me, I want to put in a full Nelson. But, and he did get his jersey ripped, but he was being a protector for his team. You know what I'm saying? Imagine somebody coming up to Lou Will and pulling one of the curls out of his head. You know what I'm saying? You gotta beat him up. You know, you can't do that. So you need somebody up there doing that kind of thing. Challenge not doing it. John, yeah, John, Rashid Wallace, he said that, you know, that 2004 Pistons team is to blame for all his antics. Basically the bullying that he does was from hanging out in that locker. Are you buying that? I'm buying it. I'm buying the fact that he's from Central Michigan. He's seen what it takes from that 2004 team. He grew up being a bad boy fan. It's that mentality that you have to take when you want something. It's very American, very American. So I think him being a strong-minded, but as an intense player, like they can say what he wants to be that in-between height and to be able to get there and hit a three when necessary, go to the basket, play the toughest defense on everybody, take everything the referee is saying, making you pay attention to him and not try to run up and beat up on clay or beat up on stuff. This is an important piece of the game. It's the guy, you know, not gonna say the garbage man, but the guy who does all the dirty work. With that being said, how would Dre fit on those bad boy teams of you guys? How would he fit on those groups? He would fit great. I don't know if he would take the place of Dennis Robin, there's no one can take the place of big man. But the mentality is definitely there. It's definitely somebody we would want on the squad that thinks about us first. But Bill and Bear used to have this attitude and this mentality. I remember I was playing against Atlanta Hawks and you know, I went to Georgia Tech. So my whole four years in college, I'm playing against Dominique and Tree Rollins and the like. And when I got up to, I think Thanksgiving, I was more comfortable with those guys than I was with the Pistons. And so I went to Kevin Willis' house with Thanksgiving and all kinds. The next day, they dragged me up and down court. They elbowed me in different ways. And Bill and Bear says, it may be your boys, but when they're wearing, when you're wearing these colors, there's you're our guy. And I never forgot. I'm glad it happened my first year. I'm glad it happened within the first month of me playing because when I went to play against MJ, you know, we're both fraternity brothers Omega Sci-Fi Incorporated, the best fraternity in the world. And I put them on his back. He was like, man, you wanted him. I said, MJ, I've always been one of them. But after the game, I'm a little bit you, right? I loved the Ferrari. Nobody hanging with me after the end of the game. But listen, that mentality of us against the world is that why you see that you see those T-shirts say Detroit against everybody. So Draymond has that mentality of us against the world. And he is right. When we look back in 10 and 20 years, we're going to realize Draymond was right. It's them against the world. And he has to be the intimidated he is. He has to be the intense player he is. I would, you know, I'm sorry he had to take so many, you know, games off. But both of you guys know, if you can get a break in between the season, take it. That's a fact, that's a fact, that's a fact, that's a fact. Where the game is today with the physicality, do you think a bad boys team like that will work in today's game? Would it be so different? No, I don't, because I think now we realize, back when I played, well, a while ago, I would say, players were making not as much money as they were making now. So now players are Fortune 500 companies coming in, as ice, ice, George government would say, is they get paid on potential. They're not getting paid on talent. They get paid on what they think they're going to be. And they get paid according to what the person last year got paid. So they got a new contract. If you get paid, whatever you paid number 10 last year is going to be at least 20% more this year. So a lot of that would not have worked. Plus, I think this game is an international, more of an international game now in Asia. And it's not good when players show what they consider to be in subordination to the referees or to the yelling and arguing. They don't want that kind of mentality or that kind of game in front of their audience. So we had to change it. And I think it's, I think what we did, everyone keeps saying that we were the bad boys. But if you ask George James Worthy, James Worthy was like, they're not bad boys. They just play hard. It's the Celtics who were doing the dirty ones doing all kinds of stuff. Yeah, I'm telling on them. Those Celtics. I can't even celebrate anymore without getting teed up. But when you play, John, it was probably for a lot of us considered our favorite time of the NBA and the names that get brought up all the time. And it usually is on the heels of a Draymond moment because we bring up Mahorn and Lane Beer and all those guys. Were you ever intimidated by any of them? Was there one guy that you just sort of wanted to stay away from? On my team? No, anywhere, anywhere, like in the time you played. Yeah. No, no, like we would come in, drink all the drinks, smoke all the smoke and girl, all the girls. So we would have won. You know, if your girl came to the game, you know, the boy boys at the end of the game, she would have at least five numbers on a piece of paper. They wouldn't work, but we would, we would definitely, make you think about hating us the next time you played. No, we were the guys who wore black. The reason we took on the persona of the Raiders, Al Davis and my guy, Ronnie Rothstein. Not Ronnie, Ronnie, Ronnie Rothstein was coach. Onstein, onstein made sure we had all this Raider gear and Bill and Ben was like, hey, we're going to be like the Raiders of the NBA. So, you know, we were thinking of manifesting that mentality that we were going to be the bad guy and everybody remembers the bad guy. That's why they talk about our team, which was 35 years ago when we won our first championship. They still talk about us, but you don't hear them talk about those teams of Milwaukee or those bad teams in San Antonio. They talk about us because we left a last impression, I would say, in their brain. Yeah, the branding before branding was even a thing. Well done. Look, Isaiah Thomas has, who knows? Like we know what MJ thinks and sort of a lot of that was brought up again in the last several years, but for you, is he misunderstood by the rest of us? Like, what kind of guy is Isaiah? So misunderstood. Okay, Louisville, how tall are you? Sixty. How tall are you? Okay, so Isaiah is an inch shorter than you and was playing in the air with Bird, Magic, Akim, who, I mean, just to name those three, okay? Michael, he was six-one, giving them more than 20 points a game. As in the ball were the same at the same time and a team that no one was paying attention to in the middle of the country, he literally took this team from, he was 19 years old to winning championships two in a row. And, you know, it just, it didn't fit into, I guess, into the program or into the script because we really changed the way things were. And Isaiah was the catalyst for that. He, Zeke was always the one that had to take all of the pressure. So yeah, they don't understand him because he's gonna smile at you and give that beautiful Isaiah a smile and kill you at the same time. So he was misunderstood. I think a lot of people wanted to jump on him and say he was the reason Michael didn't get the ball. And I remember them saying that he didn't want to give him the ball to all-star game. I watched Isaiah give him a bounce the ball on the ground slam dunk. He wanted to give MJ the ball. And then when they talked about him not going into on a dream team, that was political. It had nothing to do with that. Because if you put Isaiah on a squad, you can't have stopped him. Like, and they needed, if you watch it, they needed the team to look a certain way. And Isaiah was going to outshine all of them. If you put Isaiah in a situation, he's gonna dribble it, shoot it from deep, make you look back on the basket. And that is more entertaining than what they would have put on a car. Remember, they put Christian Layton in front of Shaquille O'Neal. So obviously, obviously it had nothing to do with what the talent are. It was what the team needed, what they felt it needed to look like at the time. So he's totally misunderstood. Don, moving on to the Detroit Pistons today. They're four and 36, historically bad. As a former Pistons, how frustrating is this, you know, beginning of this season been or you don't really care? I do care. CP of course, I care, man. We have, out of all my teammates, we have a chat that I have with the Pistons. And I left the Pistons in 1992. I only played six years there, but we still have this unit, I would say. The fact that they've never hired one of any, of the players that won championships for Detroit. Yeah, Rick Mahorn does play by play. Vinnie Johnson did do play by play. That's it. Bill M. Bear went and won two WNBA championships. And he still didn't get a shot at being a coach there. They have picked around our team, not to take that. And they tried everything they could to try to, you know, get to something new. Let's think about, you know, getting to this. Let's go on this side. And they should have hired Bill M. Bear. Bill M. Bear is a great coach, would have been great for the organization. It would have kept it all in-house. Look what happened to the Celtics. They hired their ex-players. And when they hired those ex-players, they have, I think, 17 banners, 16 banners. It's what they used to do. It was a smart thing to do. It kept the mentality of the team intact. And I think them doing it every other way has hurt the squad. Interesting. Yeah. Hmm. So let me ask you this. No, that's, I didn't expect that perspective, but it makes a lot, it makes a ton of sense, man. And let me ask you this. You played a year in Chicago, won a ring with MJ in 96. You got to tell me what that was like. That's like my glory years of, that's when I learned to be a basketball fan. What was that year like? Man, let me tell you something. So, first, the Barthol setter was the first of his kind. Had a track inside, Olympic lifting, Olympic style weight room. It had a swimming pool. Had three rooms for massage therapy, just sign your name on the top. Well, you had to sign your name because Michael and Scotty's was put there in ink. So everybody after them. But it was like traveling. I mean, it was like being with the Beatles, Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson all at the same time. It was, I remember we pulled up to the hotel in New York, the Plaza. And I'm from New York and I have walked around it. I've been to Barthol Goodman across the street and was right across from Central Park. And we pulled in the back and I didn't even know there was a back. And we got out, and we got ushered in and we went upstairs and it was this unbelievable layout. Like I thought I was at a ball or a gala or something like that. Gala for those who don't speak the language. And they handed us the keys. And my room, you know, you usually get a room, and hey, fella, you know, hey, man, don't leave me, man. Give me five minutes. You know that kind of stuff? Man, I had a huge room. I thought I was balling. I said, they gave me the wrong room. I'm not giving this up. But Michael and Scotty and Dennis and Phil had the suites upstairs. Wow. I was like, yo, I'm going out with Randy Brown and go, where are we gonna go? I said, why should we go anywhere? Like this room, I'm not leaving this room. You know what I'm saying? I'm stealing one of these silver plates, platters, and bringing it back to the crib. Are you serious? It was, it was, I would say. And then we were flying on MGM flight. So you guys wouldn't know this, but MGM used to have this plane that all the celebrities used to fly on the red eye. Like CPU would have been on a MGM plane with it. It looked like one of those planes you get on now, right? It looks like a Virgin plane. It had a bar. It had different looking flight attendants. It was unbelievable. You know what I'm saying? You didn't have grandma flight attendants. Oh, I forgot your brother. No, it was like, what? And we were flying this all over. And I mean, Michael had a security and it was a trip because Michael's plane would take his security ahead, which was, and I think about this, man, if they would fly on his dead ahead, Michael would fly on the plane with us. And the, I don't gamble. Well, I have, you know, been to some nightclub. So I guess I do gamble, but I don't gamble. The gambling on this plane, right? God bless it. So Jack Haley, good guy. Jack Haley playing those games and win. They'd be pissed. And Jack would be like, I got him the dates out. And he was like, you know, look, stocks. It was, it was, the food was better. I mean, I think I had a great pineapple from Costa Rica and the farmer bought it to the plane. That's how, that's how it was. That's how it was, Lou. It was the best basketball experience I've ever had. And then I realized what it's supposed to be. And that's what it's supposed to be. Pat Riley, I heard, does that. He makes the experience. The plane is unbelievable. It makes you, when you quit, when you quit, it makes you have depression because you have to go back to Southwest. Even though I love Southwest, I'm not trying to hurt Southwest. Shout out Southwest. Shout out to Southwest. I don't want to mess with just sponsors. But it puts that in a whole different, you want to, you want to be there. Like when they invited us back for this Ring of Honor last week, my first answer was yes. And my second answer was yes. That's how great this organization is. Mr. Shout out to Mr. Ridesaw. That's dope. That just makes me jealous. You know what, speaking of the Ring of Honor, the viral moment was the worst moment of the entire thing when, of course, Thelma Krause is on the Jumbotron because Jerry Krause is being celebrated. And of course, Chicago fans don't have great feelings. And they booed. To be in that moment, what was that like? I was sitting behind, feel like right almost next to her. And I saw her going like this and crying. I felt really bad for her. Yeah. Really bad for her. And that would have never happened on any other team. Like it wouldn't have happened in Detroit. But maybe if you played in Philly, the crowd would have thrown some at him. But it wouldn't happen. But the crowd in Chicago is so embedded. The fact that they knew who love was, they knew who Red Cur was, they, everybody being on it. I saw one of my heroes and I was next to him. Was artist Gilmore. And when that happened, I felt for her. Ron Harper put his hands on her shoulder and then everybody started touching it, they started cheering. Because they realized it wasn't Jerry. Jerry wasn't there. Jerry's dead. Yeah. But you know, this is Chicago. It's a Chicago thing, you know what I'm saying? Like you say Al Capone, you know what I'm saying? They still are happy about having Al Capone. So it's a different city. They have really, really, really feel for that. And then I think the show that really put a hole that could never be filled was Last Dance. Because when you watch Last Dance, you realize Jerry was being a general manager. He was having to make the team young. He was having to change things and they didn't want things to change. They wanted it to run until the wheels fell off and Jerry was having to make moves. I mean, think about the smart moves he has made. One, hiring me when he should have, very smart. Two, Tony Cucco. Tony Cucco being on that squad, they leave him out. I'm glad he is mentioned like he's supposed to. He was one of the greatest players I've ever played with. But wasn't even overshadowed by Michael and Scotty because he proved that he was a great player. But they looked at it at that time as a threat or it was changing something when they could have looked at it as he was adding to the squad and they should have. Because Tony Cucco was a great, great player, great guy too. So I feel sorry for his widow for that. They're going to have to realize that. And I remember those people used to call us Detroit Pistons classless, that was classless at the time. But those teams are very emotional. I mean, after Scotty saw the last dance, I don't think he is coming back. He came back to Chicago, I heard, to promote his alcohol, but nothing else. Yeah, it's actually awkward. All right, so you play in the bowls that single season, take a few seasons off, show up with the Lakers. When you signed the deal with the Lakers, rumors had something to do with Shaq. Is that true? Yes. Okay. Well, this is what happens. I'm living by five doors from Shaq in Beverly Hills. He doesn't even know I stay in shape. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to bother him. But I'm watching the game. And it was the shortened season in 1999. And I called Phil and I said, hey man, you're not going to let these two guys, these two great guys not win championships, man, you got to come back and we put that triangle in. These guys will win five, six championships in a row, just like in Chicago. And he said, who you been talking to, Sal? I said, well, you know, I don't really talk to that many people. What do you mean? He goes, well, I just signed the deal, but no one knows that. How did you know to call me? And I go, well, you know, I'm hooked up like that. The universe looks out for me, Phil. And he goes, you in shape? And I said, yeah, I stay in shape. Yo, man, I was eating the Oreos at night, peanut butter jelly sandwiches, ice cream. You know what I'm saying? And he said, well, go down to UCLA and Jerry's down there. They got some runs, just let them see you play. And I said, when? He said in about two weeks, Jerry be back. Man, I was on the track every day. And then when I got in there, and this is not a hit on them, but it was Olden Polynes and Benoit Benjamin. And they were playing in there. And when I looked and I, it was, I got to play against these two? Oh my God, I'm gonna be a Laker this year. Man, I put on a show. Nice. I put on a show. I was like, you two have to die in order for me to live. I'll tell you, off with your head, off with your head. And I put on a show and, you know, Jerry was like, oh, great, this is gonna be great, man. When I got in, I said, I live five doors from Shacken. We run an offensive, right? And Tex winners, man, is, you know, going his way by and I was like, hey, you can't teach these guys the way you taught us to play. We have a thing in a triangle called. Oh, wait, we're almost out of time. John, no. Okay, you have to come back because we're gonna need like six hours of stories with John Sally. I know, cause CP didn't even say anything. He just looking over there. I know, I need you to come back tomorrow, Sal. This is the best thing to do. Do it again. That's funny.