 Alright thanks for staying with us now. In the past two decades have witnessed an impressive rise in women's political representation around the world with a global average in the share of women in national parliament doubling during that time and all regions making substantial progress towards the goal of 30% women's representation in decision making. However, the lack of progress with the women's political representation in Nigeria is surprising rather considering that the women's role in countries, social, economic and cultural landscape appears to be increasing and it is expected that the increasing role of women in the society will translate to greater inclusion of women in the political process. The recently released ministerial list continues, the ministerial list rather continues to represent the under-representation as only seven women made the cut of the 28 nominees by the president Bola Ahmed Timbuk. So today we're asking is in respect to this representation in the ministerial list, what impact would it have on governance? Now please let's hear what you have to say. Remember you can join the conversation, send us an SMS over to the rate 1803-4663, you can also tweet at us at Weishuafqa1 with the hashtag Weishuafqa1. Let me come to you Diola then I'll come back and bring in our guest. What do you think this impact will look like? Well, I mean, more a bridge between the disparities, you know, with the gender in terms of more men in politics and all that. Again, an increase in women-centric issues, you know, maybe a more a more deepened way of policy making, you know, considering that you have a larger pool of talents to explore. Women make up over maybe half the population in Nigeria. Having a very few minority, you know, represented in the government is really, but in fact, that's I was researching and I saw something interesting that no precedent. So apparently there is a there is a national agenda or a national national action. Do you talk about the national affirmative action? Yeah, exactly. And no precedent has ever met that. You know, it's always been six or seven, 20%, 30%. So I'm asking, I mean, is precedent in light of his manifesto, you know, that said he's going to make sure that at least 35% release the full list yet? Well, I mean, again, you have to understand that there is a whole lot of public opinion riding on this. This is a time when you have to really, really, you know, let people believe in the kind of government that you're trying to create. So people are mostly always very interested in the first things that happen after that you've lost them. So everybody is now is like, We are watching. I mean, so you know, Let me bring in our guests. Mufiliad Fijabi is a gender and development specialist and is currently the CEO of Nigeria Women Trust Funds and Director of Sustainable Gender Action Initiative, who has worked as a passionate woman, woman or women's human right activists over the two decades, right? Over the last two decades, she has experienced, she has experienced rather in communications, women's leadership and political participation, resource mobilization, policy development and advocacy, as well as inclusion of vulnerable groups, which are women, youth and persons with disabilities in development and the democratic processes. She has joined us by a phone this evening. Thank you so much for joining us, Mufiliad. Thank you very much for having me. Good evening. Apologies for the network glitch. Would have loved to see your face. All right, so quickly, I mean, we are like racing for time here right now, because when we start the conversation, it just runs very quickly. But tell us, when the ministerial list came out again, what was your first observation, especially as regards to the representation of women on that list? You know, was it a good thing for you? Or was it something you say? Oh, no, no, no, I expected more. Okay, for me, to have even seen and heard that women are on the list, I was quite happy and impressed. And then afterwards, I started looking out for the numbers. And when I saw that it's just seven out of 28, that's about 25%. That does not mean the minimum standard that the country has adopted, which is 35%. The adoption of 35% by Nigeria as a country is a minimum benchmark. And one would expect that the president in this appointment would meet up to that minimum benchmark. We want this particular government to actually beat all bookmakers, beats past governments by ensuring that the appointment, because I understand that there are still many more to come, that it reflects that minimum benchmark of 35%. If you look at the regional documents and some of the international commitments that Nigeria as a country has made, the benchmark for the convention, the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women at the Beijing platform is actually 30%. But Nigeria chose to have 35, which is commendable. And this is also founded in the Nigeria's national agenda policy. And also very remarkable well spoken by federal high courts in Abuja. The 35% has also become something that a court of law has upheld for Nigerian women and for the government to implement. So we're not asking for 35% because that's what we so much desire as women, but it's what Nigeria as a country desires. But the political will to make it happen should be taken very seriously. Nigeria women should be compensated and commanded by ensuring that whatever list comes out, the total percentage must reflect a minimum of 35% affirmative action for women. It's not about the percentage, but about the need to be in tune with what is happening globally in terms of governance and inclusion. A country is made up of both male and female. And as such, the governance should be one that is inclusive, that encourages the participation of both men and women from an informed perspective. Thank you. I just want to build on what you've just said about inclusion. And even the 35%, we're currently struggling because I think National Assembly now, I think it's about 17% there about. But I want to ask about the factors. Of course, generally there are gender issues for women, right? Right across board, whether it's in corporate, that gender issue does exist. But when it comes to politics, I'd like to hear your thoughts around potential barriers for women. So we've heard stories around perhaps the violence in politics, different issues that may perhaps prevent women from wanting to go into politics. So I'd love to hear your thoughts around those barriers that prevent women today from playing in the political space. Okay. When you talk about barriers to women's leadership, there are quite a number of them. And one that I always speak about is the one of culturally justified barriers to women's political leadership, which means that we still live in a country that is fully not so receptive to women's leadership. So, and if you notice, since the return of Nigeria to democratic practice in 1999, there has been an increase in the interest of women to participate actively in the governance of Nigeria. So, but as we continue to record increase in women's political participation and active involvement, you know, in governance, the percentage and the level of women emerging as representatives, elected representatives, as unfortunately continue to draw. Well, we should have been able to have a strong support in terms of having women appointed into political positions, but that's not the case. So there's a contradiction between the level of women's participation and show of interest. And the number that eventually emerges as elected representative, and as appointees of governments who can play critical roles in governance. So this tells us that in spite of the interests of women, we need a complete reorientation around the importance of women's leadership, both from the religious and the cultural perspective. Women's participation in leadership should be a welcome development because without the two wings, you know, the country cannot supply sufficiently well and cannot deliver sufficiently well as well in its development efforts. And then to that factor is the one of the unlabeled and unequal playing field. Most times political participation revolves around political parties. Political parties today still very much patriarchal. The support given to facilitate women's representation is still not very balanced. And it also goes with a lot of bureaucracy and godfatherism, as well as political bottlenecks, which men also experience, but not as much as women. And if you look at our trajectory, political wise, women's involvement in political parties have always been limited by the factor of patriarchy, which means the notion of male control. For as long as we continue to deal with patriarchy and combine with the unequal playing field, it will continue to impact on women's imagines and selected representatives. And this calls for a lot of attention. Also associated with that is the issue of finance, especially as resources required for mobilization in political participation. Oftentimes, women don't have the necessary work in terms of resources to fast track their constituency building in terms of logistics and to enhance their ability to mobilize their constituency to understand their manifesto and understand their political ideals. Women are still very much far behind. And most of these points also mentioned the role of the media. The media derives a lot of pleasure in giving visibility to male political candidates, unless for female candidates. There are lots of factors that have been matched that have shown that while women are still very much behind in the way the media covers their efforts around political participation, the men have gone far ahead. And there are so many more factors to talk about, but I'll stop here for now. I was going to just say to you that regarding media, women who have a huge, they have a huge part to play in that because I know so many women that were running for political offices that we kept on sending invitations to come and talk. It was difficult for you to get them on the show, but if you send them an invite to their male counterpart, it's already in the studio having that conversation. So you really can't really blame the media. But let's take a break, right? When we come back from that break, I believe Diola has a question. Then I have a follow-up question for you. Stay with us. We'll be right back. All right, thanks for staying with us. Now, if you're just in, we're discussing this women's representation, right? Especially with the ministerial list and the impact it will have on governance now. And we have with us Mufouliat Fijabi. Now, please let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or WhatsApp to the red one, 803-4663. You can also tweet at us at weishoafqa1 with the hashtag weisho. All right, Diola, you have a question, right? Oh, yes. I wanted to take us back to leadership, women's leadership. But this time around them, leadership capacities of women. So I'm going to ask our guests. I mean, in your expert opinion, what do you think are the unique perspectives in terms of leadership that women can bring into governance and politics? What capacities do they have and how much can they take governance further in the scheme of things? First and foremost, I'm going to say that women are naturally focused persons. They don't take things for granted. If they have a tax ahead of them, their strength and ability to focus and achieve success is uncomparable. And if you talk about the strengths in their S-parties and experience, you cannot also bring that down because women, especially Nigerian women, we have a lot of strength in the S-parties that we build for ourselves. And that's why you've seen several Nigerian women performing excellently well in their chosen fields, both nationally and internationally. And of course, in terms of remaining consistent and resilient, women are resilient. In spite of challenges, they forge ahead to overcome challenges and to create new parts for success. And they are also natural managers, people who have content, who have focus and who demonstrate natural management skills, which of course, they always bring on board, you know, combined with their professional career growth. So if you look at women, career women, women who show interest in politics, even in the informal sectors, women demonstrate a lot of skills. The communication skills, the listening skills, the ability to mobilize and the ability to remain focused is not something one can push aside. So the non-imagines of women as selected representatives is not because women are not qualified. It's because of the landscape that we exist and thrive on, which as earlier discussed, is unbalanced and is not equal, not sufficient enough and supportive enough to have women come out to attain these goals and contribute their own quota to the development of the country. So women remain good experts, good and resourceful persons who can make change happen as the need arises. Okay. So I want to ask a question around this, 35 percent, what do they call the word now? Affirmative action. Is this a token or it's actually supposed to be our right, you know, for us to take you know what, because most times when I hear people talk about this, 35 percent, it seems like it is big, big, we have to go and beg them to make sure that they, they, what's it called, they implement that 35 percent. So that's what I'm asking, I want to have some clarity. Is this a token or is something that is meant to be by law? It's supposed to happen. And if so, if it is the latter, right, what is supposed to be the actions that we are supposed to be taking right now when we don't see those representations with the political appointments or whatever it is that we're seeking for in terms of leadership and governance. So can I just add to that as well, because last year remember the base, the gender bills, there was one there that sought to increase the quota of seats to 20 percent, not even 35, and I don't believe that was passed. So I don't want to add that there, maybe in the context of that, to say, is it just a nice number? The whole direction behind it. So let's, let's know what we are fighting. Okay. Actually, the fact that there's an affirmative action is a recognition of the fact that the process has not been balanced. There has been a gap. There's need to make some deliberate efforts to close the gap that exists. I want to talk about affirmative action where it's on the side of the women now so that the gap in gender balance can be closed. Who knows, it may be the men who may be asking for affirmative action the next time, but the affirmative action as adopted by Nigeria based on the National Gender Policy of 2006 is one that speaks to affirmative action for either men or women, you know, depending on whether it's men or women that are being affected. So, but in this case, as we speak today, the women are more affected than the ones that are not being included in the governance process. And that's why that policy speaks very strongly about the need to attain minimum of 35. 35 is the minimum, you know, to drive the process and to also ensure that the gender balance. So if we do not see this at the same time, go ahead. Most times, the successive governments, you know, have not, have never reached 35% for women in appointive positions, which, which is what the policies stipulate. And that's why a group of organizations led by the Nigeria Women's Trust Fund after the 2019 election went to court. And on the 6th of April, 2022, the Federal Eye Court, Abuja, delivered a very strong judgment compelling any government of the country of Nigeria to obey that minimum of 35% affirmative action. So actually, legally, if the government is not obeying that, it's a contempt of court. And of course, Nigerians, Nigerian women should actually rise up to that occasion in order to seek and demand for their rights. So the national agenda policy is actually now being backed up by court ejection, especially for appointive positions. This is different from elective positions. The one that you referenced at the National Assembly last year during the 9th Assembly, that one speaks to additional seats for women in elective positions. But fortunately, that bill didn't sell through. We're hoping that the 10th Assembly would also take it up from there and do the needful. The interesting thing about that particular bill for additional seats is that it was actually co-sponsored by both honorable male and female at the 9th Assembly. So it's not the case of only women seeking for the passage of that bill. I was just going to say that, you know, if you look at the political scene, the people that vote more are women. So I'm not even going to disturb my head around the elective positions, right? Because those ones, we need to just really tell ourselves that if I see a woman on a ballot box paper next time, I will vote for a woman regardless, right? If we start to consciously make those decisions, maybe we'll see some switch when it comes to women in elective positions, right? But for this one, I'm glad you have said it that it's actually something that we can take to court if it is not met. So I mean, in moving forward, right, do we really need to consider competence? Because again, when the issue around women selections or whatever happens, people always throw around this story of is she competent and all of that. But I mean, you never hear them say that about men. So do we still need to play the card of competence when selecting those women? Or, you know, as long as it's a woman, it will suffice in your opinion? For me, a combination of quantity and quality is what works perfectly well. And what I mean by quality is that, of course, women have the expertise. The seven women that have made that list now, if you look at their background, they are very strong women who have demonstrated leadership and expertise in their various fields. And some of them actually serve in the government. That's why we argue with you that that is a political appointment because it doesn't look like some of them. I mean, come on. Let me read. It seems like it seems like this is like political. They worked hard. So let us. Whether it is political or not, you cannot say that those women do not have competency. Like you said, most times people speak about whether women are competent or not, but they don't speak of same for women. So you cannot say those women don't have reasonable level of competence to serve in those positions. Some of them actually qualify better than some of the men on that list as well. So most times they bring women's expertise down by saying that are they competent? They are not competent, you know. So competency is important. But when we talk about competency and leadership, the level of women's competency is not something to be thrown away because they don't throw the same card to men to start wearing their competency. You know, I would say, I mean, select them first. Either not do it, don't worry. There are more women to replace them. Give them the position. Because once they are not competent, you can even push back because they have their own pedicure as well. They are not women, you can push back. Absolutely. Because they have the way with them, they also demonstrate their competence. Absolutely, absolutely. Even if they don't, they must just elect them first. Go ahead. Okay. So we have a comment here from Daniel Ello. He says, good evening, my dear beautiful sisters of ways, women representation in the ministerial list and the impact on governance. I am a fan and supporter of women occupying offices in government because I believe they can bring a change that women fail to bring. Your guest made mention of women's participation in government, which is a welcome development that should not be ignored. I also believe in the saying that what a man can do, a woman can do better. Seven positions out of 28 is not bad, but could be better. I really thank God that women were considered for positions in office. It gives me so much joy. Finally, I believe that women can and will create an impact in government for the better without any shadow of a doubt. And he says, welcome back to me. Thank you, Daniel. Thank you, Daniel Ello. I mean, so if you had one final comment to say, Mufiliat, what would that be in a second? Well, with your own governance that is inclusive to have a very strong democratic process in our country, Nigeria. Thank you. Thank you so much. Really, really lovely to have had you on the show today. We hope to have you physically very soon. Thank you, Uti. Thank you, Dheola. Thank you. In case they are looking for ministerial appointees, we have competent people here. We don't lack competence. We have plenty of placements. They shall be putting us on that list. Well, please, Presidente Bola Metinubu, we are begging you. We want to see 35 percent. So this new list that is coming out, let's have more women on that list, please. It's very important. We have tried. We can make a difference. We've tried men all these years. What did they do? But even if you look at the women that have gone past, they have made a difference. Of course. So just, please, give us, you know, it is way. Okay. Before we go, I'm sure you follow us across all our social media handles so that way, sure, Africa, you can interact with us further, drop a comment. More importantly, follow all our engagement online. Like, share, invite your families and friends to watch and follow the conversation. And if you missed our quote for today, let me fish that out. So it says, where's my quote? Women have always had to be creative about making limited resources work to sustain themselves and their families. They understand what it means to make the hard decisions and to just get on with it. That is why it is imperative for women not just to be the ones dusting off the table, but crafting its leg for our world to stand on. This is a very powerful quote. Very powerful quote. We actually have built this. Imagine if we had more women since. What are the users way? Women are doing well. We'll see you guys tomorrow at 8 p.m. As we bring another great conversation to your screen. Ciao.