 Welcome back. It's time for a very hot topic this morning on the program. Court has ordered the President Muhammad Ibrahim's administration to account for 460 million Chinese loan. Serap has gone to court to look for understanding, to look for explanation on this very important contract and Serap there is a social economic rights and accountability project and they've been able to get the court to order this government to give an account to publish total amount of money paid to the Chinese and local companies and contractors and the status of the implementation of the project. I have been joined by Muhammad Abdullahi, public affairs analyst from Kaduna State. Good morning to you Muhammad. Good morning Nigerians, my pleasure. Alright so Muhammad, constitutional rights at play here and a test of the system. What's your take on this that's playing out? First of all Serap going to display this right and getting the judge to have this beautiful laudable judgment given to them. This is very commendable of Serap. They instituted so many lawsuits against the present government and this is one of the very few that they've gotten outright judgment you know. So having said that, it's very commendable. I think it's within the right of every Nigerian to know and understand when the government borrowed money and what such money is meant for and what is the status of the I mean in terms of the implementation of the loan. So I think it's within the right of not only Serap but Nigerians and Nigeria as a whole to hold the government accountable in terms of loan received and what actually has been achieved with the loan. So it's very commendable. It's something that I think I'm sure Nigerians should comment Serap for and I think it's something that we should do onwards because you know it is so unfortunate like we keep saying. This is a perfect example of the fact that government is a continuum. If you don't mind I'm sure many Nigerians will call that this loan in particular that we mentioned I mean the CCTV loan was actually received by the Jonathan administration since 2010. So it's not something that the even though we understand that President Buharis administration received a whole lot of loan within these past eight years but this particular loan was received by I mean during the Jonathan administration and if my memory serves me right I think it was done then by the Minister of Finance that Uluseguna Ganga in the company of the police affairs minister I mean Adamuaziri and then the then Inspector General of Police Hafiz Ringim. They went all the way to China to negotiate this loan and they got this loan with the sole purpose of saying they want to make sure the federal capital church I mean the the political base of Nigeria is well monitored in terms of a CCTV and they got this loan and it's so shocking that 23 sorry 13 years after more than five eight years and so since the previous administration left office this why Nigeria is servicing this loan this this project has not seen the light of the day so it's shocking and I am surprised yes it's laudable that this what's it called this judgment is given but I am surprised that we are actually not objective in terms of what we do as a country because we have the name of the company ZTE communications what what we do in Nigeria is that when we get this loan from China China gives us all the terms you know they provide the personnel they provide the expertise and so on in terms of this particular loan ZTE communications awarded the contract so we know the name of the contractor we should go after them as well we should ask questions we know the people that you know negotiated this loan they are Nigerians they are still alive probably is not in Nigeria but I know I know we know he's still alive you should come an account what's it called Hafiz Ringim the former inspector general of police the former police committee police affairs commissioner at the Moaziri these are Nigerians who you know should be someone to tell Nigerians what they did with this loan yeah exactly why the it's very I don't know how to describe this when the finance minister was being questioned and she said yes this loan is been is been serviced but she didn't have details about the loan and she then said that refer the committee to the federal capital territory authority to get details about this as you have said government is continuum why didn't this administration seek for further explanation and you know accountability over this why were we just servicing these loans without detailed information and inquiries and queries about the implementation you you said it all I think this is is is one of our biggest and major problem in the country you know like you rightly said why is this present administration servicing the loan but not asking question about the implementation of the project it's shocking I don't think I'm in the right position to answer that query or that question rather the people in government you know like the and I think it is a failure of duty by the minister of finance saying that she doesn't she can't tell it is really a slap in the face of Nigerians because why are you servicing the loan why are you paying back when you can't ask questions of the status and implementation of what the loan is was or is used for you know so it is very clear that people don't do their job you know they just get paid you know understand leave or enjoy the luxury of office but don't do don't put in the hard work that comes with the office because it's simple what she's what she told the house of reps and even the court it's simple that she should have she could have channeled that same energy to the FCTA that she's mentioning you know she's in charge of the finance of the country so she should have she has the power to ask questions yes we are serving this we are servicing this loan as part the agreement with the Chinese government and so on and so forth so but what did you do with the money you know so it's really unfortunate that we are this level and juncture in this country that you know everything goes so but but like like you rightly mentioned it is is an important failure or is an indication of the failure of accountability of government to tell Nigerians what they did with the loan even though it was by the previous government which they are now servicing now given the timing of this judgment do you see anything coming out of it especially for two reasons one as I said the timing and the the record that this administration has with regards to obeying court judgments now it's very obvious to every Nigerian that I think this administration leaves office on the 29th of May I mean in less than in less than probably six days so it's and we understand the bureaucracy of government that in fact six days is like it's like no days at all for particularly in this part of the world where the bureaucracy is so terrible for you know Nigerians to really understand and see all for the this administration to provide accountability in terms of what the court judgment mentions so I really see is my opinion please but I really see nothing coming out from this because you know they might say okay we are leaving office so probably the next the incoming administration will have will continue from from from from there but I think what I will say is that it is important like we will be mentioning and we keep saying government is a continuous process in fact this is a perfect example that government is a continuous process you know when things we don't what we do in this part of the world is that we we particularly when we are from same party and so on and so forth we tend to cover up a whole lot of negativities it is never done that way I think the the interest of the country and the people should be forced even before party lines and affiliations you know when I expect that the incoming government despite the fact that is an APC government when it comes into power fully fledged in on the 29th of this month they should check and see I mean and hold the outgoing government accountable where possible because this will be for the betterment of the country and Nigerians at large irrespective of the fact that it's it's same party affiliation so I think it's important that previous governments and previous actions of government are checkmated in order not to fall into this kind of situation that we find ourselves at the moment given that we are assessing Nigerians from all walks of life everywhere beginning to assess this outgoing government their performances in key sectors of the economy how would you assess the finance minister Hajia Zainab Ahmed especially in comparison with Kimya Doshu and Dr. Ngozi Akonjo-Iwela with the way she is handled the sector that she occupied. Yeah no one is 100% good or bad and so on but I would say she's had a bit of controversies during that tenure probably is due to experience and you can't to be candid probably you want to compare her directly with Kimya Doshu yes but you know to Okonjo-Iwela Okonjo-Iwela has more international exposure international experience coming from the war bank and so on and so forth before she became the finance minister in Nigeria so what having said that I think she's she's also I mean Zainab also the current minister has also done her bit and her best in terms of making sure that I mean Nigeria's financial stability is on track but if you look at some other areas as well she's fall short I think in my own opinion please I feel probably she wasn't really carried along in so many policies and actions of the government which is shocking because if you if you remember in December 2022 she actually voiced out that you know on the on the on various media to mention the fact that she wasn't carrying a lot by the presidency in terms of the new Naira no design you know which is shocking that the minister of finance of a country isn't aware at all that the government is intending I mean the CBN and definitely the presidency is intending to change the diary note and design you know if you remember she actually came out to say that you remember some of the I mean some of my assessment of her that probably she was lagging behind in her duties or probably the power that being the presidency see her as it as a bit of threat or someone who doesn't really compromise so they kind of set aside in some key policies and actions of the government but but but aside that I think she's done her bit and best but definitely not comparable to because I remember you know during the days of in fact we're able to play our debts to reasonable I mean amount definitely because of our clout and international exposure we're able to negotiate a whole lot in terms of our debt financing but if you look at our debt financing at the moment is skyrocketing I think Nigeria's debt is more than 747 trillion dollars at the moment you know so it's challenging but like I mentioned she's done her best so I mean the incoming administration will look forward to occupy the city next and now going by the importance of this contract that we're talking about for the CCTV which was meant to provide electronic surveillance for the federal capital territory provided Nigeria police with anti-terrorism intelligence backup and and and looking at the security situation that this administration has had to grapple with is it not shocking though that this administration did not investigate because looking at some of the reports about this contract it would appear that some inquiries were made in the past the House of Reps did make some inquiries and we do understand that the reports of the people who were sent to China to investigate this company ZTE has not seen the light of day up to date you know sometimes I wonder how we won our administration and how we won our country you just reminded me it's since 2019 and this is 2023 I remember then the House committee on finance led by Honorable Falaki invited the same minister of finance and she said it there then that she really even though the what's it called even though the government is servicing the loan but she couldn't you know you know tell about the implementation of the project which is which was shocking and this is 2023 we are still saying the same thing so it means people were not heard accountable and people play with their job definitely you know because if since 20 2019 we've been investigating the fact that yes we've had a loan of four and 46 million dollars misappropriated and then in 2023 we are still on the same page what does that tell you about our country what does that tell you about our processes and what does that tell you about governance in Nigeria it's so shocking so it's all boiled out in fact that people don't do their job people don't and people in fact people are not held accountable because even the House of Reps they are supposed to checkmate you know that initiated this probe in the first instance what did they do afterwards this is four years after 2019 2023 what they do afterward you know the day issue any kind of one hand of arrest either on the minister or the FCTHF people or the FCDA people are in charge of developing the FCT and so on and so forth or the day issue the day someone like I mentioned Hafiz Ringing who was the then inspector general police who negotiated this loan way this you know these were supposed to provide surveillance like you said the Nigerian police and even the police office police affairs minister as are then Adamu was in so a lot of questions need to be asked and like I mentioned earlier you know the fact that we keep shying away from asking people to be accountable is it's shocking people who have held a whole lot of you know powerful positions in this country have committed a whole lot of crimes whether financially and otherwise but they work freely nobody's holding them accountable it's shocking it's never done anywhere all over the world except in this part of the world so if in four years we've instituted a probe and then still after four years it is actually a court order that is that is that we are waiting for for people to actually be held accountable in fact and even with the court order it's just these days to the end of this administration it means nothing definitely will happen nothing definitely will happen and then the the owners to appeal or provide clarity would then fall on the incoming administration that will be headed by Balak metinubu obviously and we hope there will be a deviation from the status quo we hope that his administration will like I mentioned earlier irrespective of party affiliations whether the same party a PC PDP whatsoever Nigerians interest and the interests of Nigeria will be at the at the front boner that will make it you know that will make it you know the best for for the country and its citizens well thank you so much Muhammad Abdullah for your time on the breakfast this morning Muhammad Abdullah he has joined us from Katana state to take a look at the judgment asking the federal government to give account on how the four hundred and sixty million dollars Chinese loan secured to fund the failed CCTV project in Abuja was utilized thank you so much for your time Muhammad thank you very much the program continues in the moment do stay with us