 I need to try and remember SOS because I don't know what I'm beeping out to everybody Breep beeping random That's what it is like beep beep beep beep beep beep beep. It's like that. I think We're live That's my favorite Three two This This is twist this week in science episode number 637 recorded on Wednesday September 20th 2017 what color is your sky? Hey everyone, I am dr. Kiki and tonight on this week in science We are going to fill your heads with a black planet blue skies and thoughts of being eaten alive But first Disclamer disclaimer disclaimer humans Since the dawn of time wait humans haven't been around since the dawn of time since the dawn of somewhat recent events Maybe science has been humanity's greatest accomplishment There have been a few other accomplishments along the way But really too few to mention mostly having to do with figuring out what is and isn't edible in Triathlon error type things that largely went awry without science We would know nothing reliable about the past We would know precious little about the present and the future would reliably include cycles of famine war and pestilence We're still dishes and laundry would all be done by hand And long-distance communication would require a lot of walking while humans continue to build upon the best thing They ever came up with We continue to report on their progress In the hope that through better understanding of the greatest accomplishments of humans We can understand where humanity has been And where it is headed Well, not all humanity seems headed in the same direction You are certainly headed for a bright future as you have walked into another episode of This week in science coming up next I've got the kind of mind that can't get enough. I want to learn everything I want to fill it all up with new discoveries that happen every day of the week There's only one place to go to find the knowledge I seek. I want to know Yeah Science And a good science to you too, Justin Blair and everyone out there Welcome once again to this week in science. Welcome back to the weekly science show that's full of discussion and science and fun friendship Happiness I don't know this it's a good place to be and we're glad you're here I'm glad you're here You and you glad We have an amazing show lined up for you tonight with all sorts of Really interesting science news. I have stories about investigations into hot jupiter exoplanets plaques and tangles living together. Oh my And The ignoble list research Mm-hmm one of my favorites Justin, what do you have the end is pie? And uh, Rapa Nui history update, uh Color of dinosaur eggs And the right way to touch a woman with permission you mean permission There you go. Very well stated Blair. Yeah Yeah All right, let's get into the show. No Blair Yes, I yeah, I just was skipping over it because it's full of nightmare juice and I'm terrified Maybe we can just run one. No, it's almost halloween. We're getting up to it now And I'm just preparing a little bit. So I brought some cannibalistic spiders. I brought some killer frogs and I brought Some worms Yep, okay, it's all You you guys if you're if you're waiting for the Blair's animal corner segment of the show It is going to provide you with your nightmare juice this week Unless you like spiders and frogs and worms then it'll just make you feel all warm and fuzzy Nope. No, I don't I don't know about this week and these I do I do like those things. Yeah these these stories though But now let's get into the show our segment of the show that we do love so much This week in what has science done for me? lately Thanks for joining in Justin. I do love that All right, we have a wonderful letter from Maddie and Jen sorrow Hey guys first we love your show and we listen together on a weekly basis and that's a good sag You'll note. I said we we has changed a lot for my wife and I over the past year And that's what science has done for us lately We see a little over a year ago. We were told by our doctors To talk to a reproductive endocrinologist The short story is that it appeared there was no way we could have children naturally My wife and I both have Excuse me. My wife and I both have issues on our own that make having a child difficult Combine these issues together. It just couldn't happen but science to the rescue Thanks to a whole slew of different scientific fields We were able to bring our daughter home last month. Yay. Yeah, science gave us the work of patrick steptoe And no bell winner richard edwards who developed in vitro fertilization It gave us our reproductive endocrinologist Who specialization is hormones and was able to trick our bodies into working right long enough to put the parts together to make a baby It gave us the geneticists Who performed genetic screening for us to ensure that there were no genetic problems that could make an embryo incompatible with life It gave us embryologists who could select the embryos that were most likely to survive the IVF process And make it to full term It gave us the pharmaceutical scientists to develop the epidural to limit my wife's pain over 22 hours of labor And the anesthesiologists to administer it It gave our daughter the vaccinations to prevent disease It gave her vitamin k shots to prevent bleeding and eye drops to prevent blindness There are hundreds more ways that science helped this whole thing happen But this email has to end at some point. So really what I am saying is what has science done for me lately? Science gave my wife and I this little beautiful girl Ada Marie My wife and I owe our family to science and for that we are eternally grateful That's what science has done That's what science has done for us lately. Thank you again for everything you guys do and keep fighting the good fight to spread the light of science over the land Maddie and Jen sorrow PS Ada Love lace Marie Curie Because we're nerds like that So science also gave her a science baby name That's fantastic Yeah Absolutely fantastic. I'm brilliant. And what a what a heartwarming story I love these these stories for so many reasons But one of my favorites is that it proves that our listeners are not a fake number That it's actually these individual people with real lives that we can bring the science to every week It makes me so excited to do this. So science for you is showing us we actually You are an audience Yeah it is They're just a number on a page They're individuals that download our episode and listen to what we have and have amazing interesting lives and yeah Yeah, it's so cool Yeah, thank you for sharing your stories with us. It's fantastic Yeah Any story this this one was a heartlifting heartwarming story and we're so glad that you were able to successfully conceive and Your little girl is going to be one of the children of the future Helping us survive the future helping us solve problems It's wonderful. Thank you so much And everyone out there if you would like to send us your story of what science or just a single word or a sentence About what science has done for you lately You can send us a message on our facebook page Extra points if it's a haiku or a limerick All right extra points exactly Plus one That's right. So facebook page facebook.com slash this week in science or just go to facebook and look for this week in science And send us a message Because we want to hear from you You know what it's time for now The news the news But you know what we're going to talk about first in the news what Some totally improbable science news Yes I can't believe a year has already passed every year when this comes around again. I'm like already It's time again. What's coming around again? What's coming around again? The Ig Nobel Prizes These are fun Yeah, they also mean that the nobelles are coming up soon but Luckily, we don't have to report on everything in one show but The 2017 Ig Nobel Prizes were awarded on thursday september 14th 2017 This was the 27th first annual Ig Nobel Prize took place at harvard's sanders theater and Let me let let me know. Let me tell you Let me let you know Who won some improbable awards? For physics an award went to france sing Singapore and the usa for a question Using probe dynamic fluid dynamics to probe this question Can a cat be both a solid and a liquid? Oh Yes, and if you are interested in finding this study the references the reference title is on the rheology of cats Oh my god, what they find they are liquids, right? Yes, is this some sort of heisenberg in cat like or did they just Are these did they just find a bunch of very literal scientists who took? In certainly principal was like well in that case, I suppose a cat could be either a gas or a solid or liquid It's very possible. It could be a fluid Can a cat be a fluid? You know the idea of then this is a this is I'll read from the abstract. We have many awards to to get through but I will this is a very interesting question From the french author in this letter. I highlight some of the most recent developments around the rheology of philis a catus with potential applications for other species of the philidae family in the linear rheology regime manufacturers can enter the determination of the characteristic time of cats From surface effects to yield stress In the non linear rheology regime flow instabilities can emerge nonetheless The flow rate which is the usual dimensional control parameter Can be hard to compute Because cats are active rheological materials You know, I often feel like this urge to try to defend in some way like what the researchers were going for and how it could be interpreted oddly from outside, but I don't know nothing. I got nothing I got nothing. Yeah, I love the the the figure for figure one Is all these cats in sinks and bowls and glasses Duffed themselves in and so figure one's description is a a cat appears as a solid material with a consistent shape Rotating and bouncing like silly putty on a short on short time scales Be at longer time scales a cat flows and fills an empty wine glass In both cases, even if the samples are different We can estimate the relaxation time to be in the range of tau equals one second to one minute Oh my god older cats We can also introduce a characteristic time of expansion and distinguish between lipid c and gaseous d feline states Oh my god That is fantastic I just want to read this whole study now It's definitely one of those classic things where Scientists see a thing and one person just goes That cats in that sink that's hilarious. It looks like it was poured in there and the scientists go like a fluid well Um, let's talk about the physics behind that exactly Yes, so many examples of cats and their fluid motions, but are they actually No No, not actually fluids Moving on from physics, which I think just off the top that wins my vote as best of show I feel like they were they were going for the double award. I feel like they were really like Let's win this thing I'm not going we're not winning it with any of the other research, but I got a winner I know one award we can get yeah the peace prize goes to switzerland canada the netherlands and the usa For demonstrating that regular playing of a diger adieu as an is an effective treatment for obstructive sleep apnea and storing Oh, that's not ignoble. That makes total sense Actually, did we didn't put you to sleep? That's what they're trying to say. No that if you know What you do? Yeah So sleep apnea is a sort of congestive Uh sleepy time disease where you're not getting enough oxygen So having an activity where that opens up the the pipes uh practices a lot of deeper breathing Or well and don't a lot of diger adieu players do circular breathing. Isn't that part of the deal? Yeah Yeah, so I don't think that's ignoble. I think that now that's a good study. I'm actually well I love that they gave him they gave him the peace prize Because it stops the snoring So for many married couples around the world If you have a partner, it's a snoring problem, but the neighbors during the day Wow All right economics There you go. You're like a real diger adieu there uh economics prize australian usa For their experiments to see how contact with a live crocodile affects a person's willingness to gamble Huh The title of the study is never smile at a crocodile betting on electronic gaming machines is intensified by reptile induced arousal Reptile induced arousal you say I do say Yeah, so in this abstract they say that they had 62 females and 41 females randomly assigned to play a laptop simulated electronic gaming machine either prior to entry to Or after having held a one meter long saltwater crocodile Gambling behavior included bet size speed of betting final payouts and trials played on this electronic gambling machine Is investigated with respect to participants assigned arousal condition problem gambling status in effective state At risk gamblers with few self reported negative emotions Placed higher average bets at the electronic gambling machine after having held the crocodile When compared to the control In contrast at risk gamblers with many self reported negative emotions Placed lower average bets at the gaming machines after held holding the crocodile So this suggests feel like very strong and if you're an If you're an at risk player with positive emotions So if you're risk, uh, if you're if if you're the kind of person who takes risks and you're a positive personality Not depressive no negative emotions holding a crocodile is going to make you like I held a crocodile I'm gonna win I'm gonna take more risks Yeah And it made them happy It's interesting that it so they were being primed by this this crocodile holding to to to sort of Give them a to to have a different impulse after but it's interesting that Those impulses were divergent. Uh, you know that priming Wasn't controllable in a certain direction, but actually sent them off in different directions. That's really fascinating That means you might you're less likely to be handed a crocodile next time you go to casino because Only some of the players Will bet more some will bet less because otherwise they'd be handed them out left and right. Oh, yeah So come on down and bet a crocodile for free yeah The anatomy prize goes to the uk for a medical research study. Why do old men have big ears? Oh Because the myth is or like the old thing that you always say right is that cartilage keeps growing as you age Okay, isn't that already now Is that not already I was already down how they should have googled it first. Yeah, so it was basically they This was this question People said well, you know, it's very true. And so then When they figured it out I set out to answer the question So it's correct your ears get bigger as you get older. Yes, they do Okay, so There we go Well, you know could have been this whole time Could have been this whole time our skulls were shrinking and we just didn't notice it Or because you lose your hair your ears appear larger Bifocals add a pound and a half to a nose Biology prize to japan brazil switzerland For the discovery of a female penis and a male vagina in a cave insect um what So What then determines the sex of The the gametes. Yeah, the gametes. The genitalia don't necessarily determine it That's just how things came out on the outside. Well, it's the genes We we've we've definitely reported on inseminatory organs in females That are I mean come on the hyena protruding. It doesn't have a it has a pseudo penis Yes, and I'm gonna mess up the words But does this just mean that these are transgender insects and that we've discovered that this is just part of nature I wouldn't call them transgender nor would I call them hermaphroditic because they are still only one They're they have one set of sex chromosomes So they're very clearly one or the other You might have to know about preferences like what the insect it's more it's it's more about the mechanics What mechanics does this type of animal use? So that would be the question, right? It would be to observe these animals mating and to see how they use them It looks like they use them appropriately, right? Yeah, um, so It's so interesting. So they found these insects in the genus neotrogla So sochadia Pernongluridae from the from brazilian caves Females have a highly elaborate penis-like structure the gynosome While males lack an intramittent organ the gynosome has species specific elaborations Such as numerous spines that fit species specific pouches in the simple male genital genital chamber And during prolonged copulation about 40 to 70 hours A large and potentially nutritious ejaculate is transferred from the male via the gynosome the correlated genital evolution in neotrogla is probably driven By reversed sexual selection with females competing for seminal seminal gifts So So just to get this this right the first chance that we know of where the females have the The organ but the sperm still comes from the male. Yeah, okay, but the first instance that we have where the female has the Penetrating organ. Yeah. Oh, you're referring to the spikes. Yeah. No, it it lasts for 40 something hours Yes, and it's spiked. That's right. It's spiked. Okay. All right Okay Sounds like it's just like Yep, and and it has species specific Characteristics, so it's it's that the female organ has evolved intricately and has very adaptive adaptive radiation Fluid dynamics prize To south korea and the usa for studying the dynamics of liquid sloshing Oh, this is good to stir just to learn what happens when a person walks backward while carrying a cup of coffee Okay Entitled a study on the coffee spilling phenomena in the low impulse regime Huh, okay So Mildly interested just to know because I haven't I don't know that I've tried to walk backwards with a cup of coffee For a prolonged period of time, but I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna try that and I'm gonna just to see is it Is it harder to predict? The fluid dynamics of my cup if I'm walking backwards Yeah, I don't know if it is one would have to try Yeah, maybe I think we should all drink coffee walking backwards Yeah, you're working possibly go wrong. Let's see what happens The nutrition prize for brazil canada in spain for the first scientific report of human blood in the diet of the harry legged vampire bat Called what is for dinner first report of human blood in the diet of the harry legged vampire bat. Oh adorable Oh, wow human blood from in a vampire bat diet They're feeding on us Yeah, the medicine a lot of mosquitoes. Yeah, maybe that's it also Who have eaten fed on humans exactly medicine prize france and uk For using advanced brain scanning technology to measure the extent to which some people are disgusted by cheese Pardon Seriously, the title of the study is the neural bases of disgust for cheese an fmri study I'll take their cheese I'll take this is cheese friends. How does the brain respond to stinky cheese? Maybe that's the uh The cognition knows the stinkier the more delicious Or or or or you respond with taking a shot of schnapps immediately after you know schnapps No, you know you pair it you pair it with the appropriate wine. Yeah, duh The the real stinky cheese that they drink in uh, Denmark does not go well with wine. You have to follow it with some Field trip. That's right field trip. All right the cognition prize goes to italy spain in the uk For their demonstrating that many identical twins cannot tell themselves apart visually Study is called is that me or my twin lack of self face recognition advantage In identical twins And this is not behind a paywall. You can find this on plus one So anyone can read this Well, I have trouble telling me and my brother apart in like baby pictures But that's a baby picture. Like if you were a twin You would show in a picture of your twin you would imagine that you'd see something in the face that would Distinguish right that you've grown up close together. Yeah. Yeah, you know what though Just out of just out of uh economic convenience to the brain most of the time you do that in pictures I bet you're just looking at the outfit If you're a twin and you're like, oh, that's her shirt or I don't I don't know Right, I don't know that right. So then when it's just the face now, you're like, oh, I haven't really had to try this It's suddenly this is difficult And really you're never trying to tell yourself apart from your twin because you know you are apart from your twin Right, exactly. You see them Yes, you don't see you. Oh, we're both looking in the mirror. Which one am I? Which one am I? The one on the right relax You got you got this you can figure it out. It's okay And finally the obstetrics prize goes to spain For showing that a developing human fetus responds more strongly to music that has played electromechanically Inside the mother's vagina than to music that has played electromechanically on the mother's belly No, thank you Yeah, so they have The reference title is fetal facial expression in response to intravaginal music emission And they have a patent now Oh, no, no, no For a fetal acoustic stimulation device The product is named baby pod No No honey, this is I know I know I know you want me to talk to the baby But based on what I heard on quiz last week, this is how I have to do it Okay, so I just my brain just jumped to a mr. Microphone remember those But one with an attachment Right. Hey, baby That's special Yeah, this is how you know Don't don't talk to the belly Talk to the vagina. Oh, no Oh, yeah Oh Yeah, no, thanks Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Okay That made me laugh. That was fabulous. Thanks ignobell That's right. Thank you once again ignobell prizes awarded and I guess for the first time every year And they kind of make fun of some of the fun in science Some of the some of the whimsy Yeah, you might call that one whimsy for sure I'm gonna call it whimsy All right. So we've got some actual Not improbable science to talk about right now I've been talking for a long time. Am I gonna keep talking now? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I think I could do my story and you go back to your stories, but it's up to you however you want to Yeah, why don't you do a story? I'm tired of talking. Yeah go Justin go So, uh By the year 2100 The world may have tipped into unknown territory And while the future is always unknown territory, there is some reason for concern that the atmosphere is on collision course with global extinction destiny Very late ancient carbon anomalies occurring over thousands of millions of years to today's disruptions Which have taken place in just this century or a little more in the century in the past 540 million years the earth has endured five mass extinction events each involving processes that upended the normal Cycling of carbon through the atmosphere and oceans Daniel Rothman professor of geophysics at mit Analyzed significant changes in the carbon cycle over that 540 million years Including the five mass extinction events identified thresholds of catastrophe In the carbon cycle that have exceeded would lead to an unstable environment ultimately Mass extinction in a paper published in science advances. He proposes the mass extinction occurs If one of two thresholds are crossed One changes in the carbon cycle that occur over long time scales Extinction will follow if these changes occur at rates faster than global ecosystems can adapt and two Carbon cycle changes that take place over a shorter time scales The pace of carbon cycle changes Themselves won't matter instead. It's the size or magnitude of the change itself Which will determine the likelihood of an extinction event. These are two sort of different things that he was looking at Yeah, taking this reasoning forward in time Rothman predicts that given the rise in carbon dioxide emissions are relatively short time scale a sixth Will depend on whether a critical amount of carbon is added to the oceans that amount he calculates Is about 310 gigatons Which he estimates estimates will be roughly equivalent to the amount of carbon that human activities Will have added to the world's oceans by the year 2100 now this does not what 80 82 years from now That's forever We will be dead and gone. It's our kid's problem. Who cares? All right, but this does not mean 2100 party over with out at time Rothman says it would normally take a while about 10,000 years for such ecological disasters to play out However, he says that by 2100 the world may have tipped into unknown territory A lot of this is because we haven't really seen an example of this in this time scale Rothman says it's saying that if left unchecked the carbon cycle would move into realm Which would note would be no longer stable Who would be having would be behaving in a way that would we would find difficult to predict the geologic past this type of behaviors associated with mass extinction So he's did some work in the past on the end Permian extinction most severe extinction in the earth's history with a massive pulse of carbon through the earth's system Was involved in wiping out more than 95 percent of marine species worldwide so Time to figure out Is are we getting through that kind of a thing? Is that even possible? How can you really compare these great events of the geologic past which occur over such vast time scales on what's going on today, which is Centuries at the longest Robin says So I sat down one summer day and tried to think about how one might go about this systematically So he used math Diverged derived a simple mathematical formula based on the basic principles That relates to critical rate and magnitude of change in the carbon cycle to the time scale that separates fast from slow change He hypothesized that this formula should protect Whether mass extinction or some sort of global catastrophe should occur He then asked whether history followed his hypothesis by searching through hundreds of published Geochemistry papers he identified 31 events and that in the past 542 million years Which is significant change occurred in the earth's carbon cycle For each event including the five mass extinctions Rothman noted the change in carbon Expressed in the geochemical record as a change in the relative abundance of two isotopes carbon 12 and carbon 13 He also noted the duration of time over which the changes occurred He then devised mathematical Transformation to convert these quantities to the total mass of carbon that was added to the oceans during each event finally He plotted both the mass and the time scale of each event Became evident that there was a characteristic rate of change that the system basically didn't like to go past Rothman says He observed a common threshold That most of the 31 events appeared to stay under while these events involved significant changes in carbon They were relatively benign Not in in that they didn't destabilize the system towards the catastrophe And in contrast four of the five mass extinction events lay over the threshold with the most severe and permanent extinction Being the furthest over the line Upon further analysis Rothman found the critical rate for catastrophes related to earth's natural carbon cycle That cycle is a loop between photosynthesis respiration. Normally, there's a leak in the cycle Which small amounts of organic carbon sinks to the bottom of the ocean Over time is buried a sediment sequestered from the rest of the carbon cycle So even when you've got to build up, there's usually something leaking out of that system Uh production of more carbon dioxide they can leak out and The leak is then plugged carbon cycle Drifts towards that unstable territory critical rate appears only beyond The time scale in which the marine cycle can reestablish its equilibrium after disturbed Today it says that time scale is about 10 000 years But for much shorter events like what we're doing right now Like what we're doing now a critical threshold is no longer tied to the rate at which carbon is added to the oceans But instead the carbon's total mass. So we're in that scenario Both scenarios would leave an excess of carbon circulating the oceans and atmosphere likely resulting in global warming notion of acidification From the critical rate and equilibrium time scales rothman calculated the critical mass of carbon for the modern day to be that 310 gigatons Best size case scenario through the ip's pc's reports projects pretty I predicts that Humans will add 300 gigatons of carbon to the oceans by 2100 There is however a worst case scenario Which is more than 500 gigatons Far exceeding the critical threshold in all scenarios rothman shows that by 2100 the carbon cycle will either be close to or well beyond the threshold for catastrophe There should be ways of pulling back emissions of carbon dioxide rothman says But this work points out reasons why we need to be careful and it gives more reasons for studying the past to inform the present Studying the past is always important for informing the present. Absolutely, but 2100 we have time I mean we have these worst-case scenarios that have been that keep being piled on us for Emissions trajectories that are putting 2050 and you know other much closer Dates into our minds and making it seem as if We are already past the point of no return and so to Potentially have someone say That's nice, but that little longer means this big big bad coming not just a little bad coming the big bad Yeah, and it's not time to do whatever you want. It's time for us to build infrastructure to adjust how we do things But it gives us a little longer to make that happen and to not be so panicked Right and hopefully no it doesn't wait. Yeah, I think it was reading. So there he's looking nothing about this point of no return He's talking about the levels that that have led to mass extinctions in the past That's about the set of that 25th 2050 isn't Already a point beyond which that carbon cycle is out of whack and going in the wrong direction further Doesn't mean that at all. However, it does still add just another layer onto Why aren't we doing something really aggressive about this right now? In and I don't know. I think that maybe panic I think I think it's more Productively it's more it's urgent But it's fixable. Yes. It's urgent. It's fixable. Let's do something about it. It's urgent. It's fixable I think that's probably putting so much carbon Into the oceans Let's do that. We can do that. Yeah We can do that totes totes mcgoats Okay So, um, cancer tumors They're just more fun stuff more fun. I'm just bring up the fun stuff now But this is actually a potentially positive study researchers published this week in science their investigation of some kinds of tumors they were There's some tumors cancer cases like pancreatic cancer among others breast cancer even that Do not respond well to chemotherapy And the researchers have been trying to figure out why don't these tumor cells respond? What's going on? Why don't the chemotherapy drugs work? Well, they found out That there are certain drug That they're these drug resistant cancers Can potentially be defeated if you use antibiotics Right alongside the regimen Ta ta ta What they found Is that they got this idea to look for bacteria in their tumors when they found that When certain cells in the lab became more resistant to a chemotherapy drug that's called gemcitabine And this drug treats pancreatic lung breast and bladder cancers Sold under the name gem czar gem czar And so They went looking for a molecule or something that would be fighting and breaking the chemotherapy drug They passed their two they made a broth out of the tumor cells and passed it through a sieve To try and catch bits and pieces molecules, but what they found were pretty large particles That were bacteria and they found that their cancer cells were contaminated with a kind of bacteria That is called mycoplasma hyorhinus mycoplasma hyorhinus metabolizes gemcitabine making it useless And so when they treated Mice with and without this m hyorhinus they took Mice and some of them had this Bacteria infecting them and others didn't they had cancer and the ones without the bacteria The treatment worked just fine the ones with the bacteria They were resistant to treatment and so then they went on and They discovered the gene that allows this bacteria to metabolize the drug It's a gene called cd dl And they found it's really common not only in this bacteria, but also They found uh about 2,700 bacteria that had a gene for Eating up gemcitabine so throw out every chemotherapy study In the past that Showed ranges of working for some but not others and a lot of the pathways that we've gone down and trying to determine Well based on your genes which chemotherapy might work for you and and those ineffective treatments that got shelved Uh bring them all back retest everything because with antibiotics Yes, now we have a oh my gosh Yeah, so they have not tested this they've tested it on human cells But they have not tested it on humans yet And so they don't have the go ahead to actually Use the antibiotics with the chemotherapy. Although this is the kind of thing that could be easily implemented Um in a medical treatment scenario So, uh, but the basic breakdown of this is if they treat mice that have cancer That can be treated with this particular drug this gemcitabine And an antibiotic The bacteria disappear and the tumors shrink And and the tumor if if the bacteria are there And they don't use the antibiotic the tumors progress and they they don't they're not treatable So the authors conclude this merits additional exploration That's what they conclude All right, that's pretty exciting though. Actually, I think yeah, that's That's the big question with a lot of cancer Treatment as why does it come back? Why does it work part way didn't it work? So for some people it opens a lot of doors. Yeah, absolutely some kind for some types of cancers and This opens the door to other researchers who are looking at different chemotherapy drugs and different cancers to kind of Maybe do the same kind of check and say Are there other bacteria Or different or what else could be in there that we hadn't thought of right the bacteria Metabolizing chemotherapy drugs that might also mean that with an antibiotic treatment first You could use a much lower dosage of chemotherapy drugs because it the whole reason you were using so much is because you were overcoming something that was metabolizing them while they were circulating through the body And so you had to keep using more to get an effective rate and maybe you There's another way. Oh, so many questions and paths and avenues Possible drives that were pulled off the market because they weren't strong enough Which actually might have been fine if this team. Wow Yeah So maybe there is a whole area of the last 20 years of cancer research Started over with the little antibiotic treatment first Yeah Seriously go back and do a big review and see I mean and the great thing is is now they have looking at the genetics of it maybe there's a For at least some drugs that have a particular confirmation Maybe now they'll be able to say okay these bacteria could have been getting in the way and so yeah, let's go back and try it again so Yeah, anyway new new direction and in other kind of interesting good Direction in medicine Alzheimer's disease It disrupts the lives of many aging individuals and for years. We have said that. Oh, yeah, that's these These plaques that form right the amyloid plaques that form from beta amyloid And it's been the really the primary Bought of cause of the disease for many years. However, there's been a lot of evidence. It's like Yeah, there's this other protein this variant of apolipop apolipoprotein e the apoe E4 That has been looked at as well. And then there's other stuff involved in Alzheimer's the tau tangles So you've got the beta amyloid plaques and you've got tau tangles When people have said well, maybe it's just the tau tangles and so there have been these competing fields Hypothesizing on what the cause is and what the what drugs? Should should attack and what should be going on? So every anyway a new research study which is being called seminal By leaders in the field also bob vassar a molecular biologist at north northwestern university in chicago. Illinois says it has profound clinical implications It because it shifts the terms of this debate over What Alzheimer's should focus on The beta amyloid plaques or the tau tangles saying both of them Because they're interrelated Through apoe 4 and so you could target them both By targeting the apoe 4 Yeah, so this is a Potentially a change making kind of study in the way that the field looks at things So Yes, and the researchers Found that uh in this the studies published in nature They took they took genetically engineered mice that produced tau protein and That's similar to what's found in Alzheimer's brains And they cross bred them with strains of mice that expressed apoe 4 Or apoe 2 or apoe 3 the variants the human variants of this apolipoprotein e protein They also crossed these mice the tau mice with mice With disabled apolipoprotein e so they didn't have any And they noted the brain tissue from the different mixes the crosses of these mice And they found that the mice that were carrying the human variants of apoe Had tau tangles and neuro degeneration With the most tissue loss and death in the apoe 4 mice The tau mice that didn't have any apoe gene There was little or no neuronal death And so they're saying it proves provides definitive evidence quote quote Definitive evidence that apoe plays a major role in this tau pathology And then they looked they took immune cells that are part of the brain's immune system microglia and astrocytes From mice with this apoe 4 and they grew them in culture with neurons with the human tau protein and the immune cells Attacked and killed the tau neurons And so this could be this could be the mechanism apoe 4 or apolipoprotein e Interacts with the tau protein It says kill and sends the immune cells on the attack to disrupt and Destroy the neurons that express it and then that would cause plaques and tangles and all sorts of trouble So this could be the new direction of Alzheimer's treatments Going up the river finding the connector finding the root cause Getting closer everyone closer and closer. Maybe someday there will be a treatment and people will not Go into the dark dark love forgetful night You know what time it is right now break time It's not a break time. Oh no way. This is this week in science and right now It's time for Blair's animal corner By No Oh my goodness, I almost forgot how to do the show but I have some exciting animal news for you this week starting with velvet spiders Velvet spiders are from southern africa And they are one of just 20 known Species of spiders that are social that's out of the 50 000 species of spiders on this planet So most spiders as we've talked about on the show They go it alone for their entire lives even mating can be kind of contentious and Touch and go they really like their space death-causing Little light touch of death occasionally But velvet spiders are one of these groups of spiders that work cooperatively And that's because they they don't have sticky webs When they put their webs together, they don't have glue droplets And so they also that also means it doesn't catch much detritus. So they don't need to be renewed Which means these webs they can just keep building and building and building on them till they have this kind of Giant complex of webs Then so they work together to build this giant web structure and maintain it And they also work together to maintain their nests and raise young Prior research has shown that after laying eggs and tending to them until they hatch These little spiderlings come out and eat their mother alive They inject their chemical chemicals into her body that dissolve her organs and this provides her Provides her baby some much needed nutrients well new research from Ernst Moritz aren't university in germany if I did that all right and arhus university in denmark have captured About 200 female spiders these velvet spiders some of which were about to lay eggs. They were Expected mothers and some of them were virgins And they color marked these groups and watched what happened in the lab over 10 weeks in 97 percent of cases both mated and virgin spiders tended to eggs And also to the spiderlings that emerged They also observed that as the spiderlings hatched They ate both the mothers and the virgin adult females All so good in the community for the good of the community exactly And this is all because talk about a spider's handmade tail. Yes So not only dying of virgin but being eaten by tiny children that aren't yours that aren't yours So care of them kind of where these where these spiders live Food is really hard to find. It's dry water is hard to find So they make the ultimate sacrifice for these spiderlings to live This is the question that now remains unresolved Before the young eat the adults the adults go through a physical process. They go through a chemical change internally Which makes it possible for the young to eat them the researchers call it analogous to a mammals chemistry changing before they begin lactation so For whatever reason it makes it easier and better for the spiders to eat them after this chemical change and this chemical change Happens in both the mothers and the virgin females How What is the signaling process? That causes this to happen in virgin females as well as the mothers Maybe because the virgin females are around Yeah, could be hormones. Yeah, ones could be the activity of caring for the young Changes their hormonal profile. It could be something that they're picking up from the eggs. Who knows Who knows man, but what's what's happening? Is it it's probably it's got to be oxytocin relaxing them and making it So they're like, yeah, it's cool. I won't run away. Go ahead and eat me That's sort of it, you know an interesting survival technique But those those those young though just just everybody's clear Those young spiders that are devouring their mother and their aunts or their cousins or whoever they are Will one day grow up to help raise a batch of Spiders that are gonna eat them. Yeah It's the circle of life It's just beautiful waste not want not I guess just brings brings a tear in the eye Just I bet that spider venom majesty majesty of nature. That's not a tear That's just spider venom rolling out of your tear duct. Yikes Oh, so moving from uh cannibalistic spiders to killer frogs So I want to tell you a story about my favorite kind of frog Yes, I have a favorite kind of frog You might have recognized that now three years in a row the twist calendar has a certain resident on its cover And that's called a horned frog They're also known as pac-man frogs and these are by far my favorite Frogs they're called that because they're basically these round piles with a giant mouth So they look kind of like pac-man The reason that they are that shape though is that unlike other frogs They are ambush predators And they are carnivores and they are pretty good at catching large prey So they can hatch they can catch mice lizards snakes even birds these little frogs that are that are no bigger than you know four or five inches and So because the way they catch these animals like kind of like burry down into the dirt So you can barely see them all they have are their two little heads their two little eyes poking out right and then um, they Can see an animal scurrying past and they jump out and grab them with this huge mouth So because of that they have developed A fantastic bite force, but up until now no one has actually measured frog bite force We talk a lot about who would win a shark or a tiger and stuff like that And they do all sorts of tests on bite force in these animals, but so far frogs have not gotten the test Well, this new study looked at it in particular to try and figure out what the now extinct Frog called Beelzebufo Beelzebufo like Beelzebub. Yes That lived about 68 million years ago in Madagascar would have eaten So to figure out what Beelzebufo would have eaten they took because this This frog was in structure and shape and mouth size and all these sorts of things Very analogous to a Pac-Man or a horned frog They can do a series of experiments on the bite force of current day horned frogs and extrapolate from there do some mathematics so What they did This is a study from university of Adelaide, california state poly polytechnic university in Pomona University of california riverside and university of college london. This was quite the The undertaking they found that the large south american horned frogs have similar bite forces to those of mammalian predators Well, let me tell you so they found that small horned frogs at the head of about four and a half centimeters pretty small Can bite with a force of 30 newtons or about three kilograms or six and a six and a half pounds ish Scaling that they were able to compare the bite force with head and body size They could calculate large horned frogs in south america with a head width of two times In south america with a head width of two ten centimeters. So over twice that would have a bite size of almost 500 newtons This is comparable to reptiles and mammals with similar head size And they say this would feel like having 50 liters of water balanced on your fingertip And if you if you feel brave later you can do some youtube searches of people being stupid about their pet horned frogs They dangle their finger in front of the horned frog and you watch them get bit and Horned frogs don't let go and it looks extremely painful So based on the scaling relationship, they kept going they extrapolated further They estimated that the bite force of the giant extinct bill zabufo Which is many ways has proven to be similar to living horned frogs had a bite of up to a Sorry, I came forgetting that I've got a speaker on in a different place my fault So bill zabufo bill zabufo May have had a bite of up to 2200 newtons that is comparable to wolves And tigers. Oh my goodness. That's yes so This bite force and the size of bill zabufo Leads researchers to believe that they were likely to have eaten on small and juvenile Dinosaurs that shared their environment A dinosaur eating frog Yes, and they did this with um your A force transducer, which is basically just two metal plates That they bite onto and it feels the force with which they bite down That's what they use for other animals too, but Yeah, so this 68 million year old Very large frog Eight dinosaurs likely likely eight dinosaurs small dinosaurs That's one that was missing from all like the Jurassic park movies Yes It's like quick. We gotta hide from the velociraptors in here. We'll be safe with the frogs Yeah, I love Yeah, there's a little horn frog and then the frog eats you I love Yes, well and the fog wins you can go ahead and and uh Buy your twist animal corner player's animal corner calendar Advance we're taking advances on it right now You know have your horn frog on the front that's right Bufo on the cover of the coloring calendar that we're going to be releasing this winter Yeah, yeah, there you go. That'll be fantastic. Yeah All right. This is another reason why I will not be Playing with Toads frogs, maybe my son will eventually frogs are amazing. He gets to feed them. Oh, they're cute. I love them I love frogs. I love the frogs all the amphibians Especially if they eat dinosaurs All right, you guys This is this week in science. It's time for us to go take a break and eat some dinosaurs Yum. Yum. Yum. It's dinosaur time No, we're going to take a break So that you can Sit and listen to me say some things or listen to the messages that are coming next. This is this week in science Stay tuned. We have lots more science still to come All right, everybody Blair already pre-messaged you on the calendar, but we are pre Ordering calendars right now. That's right. If you go to twist.org There is a link at twist.org for you to be able to pre-order the 2018 twist blares animal corner Calendar and you know, you want to do it because it is full every single year It is full of holidays and fun things you need to know about what is going on in the science world and The interesting world you live in additionally In the twist world and you get amazing original art from Blair and this year It's going to be a coloring calendar. So you can color the art the way that you would like because Maybe you haven't enjoyed the coloring of Blair's previous calendars Because she's colorblind But that's not true. I think they're amazing They're amazing. That was just being mean. I'm sorry. Don't look at me like that Blair Yes, so the twist blares animal corner calendar this year. It's September. It's a nice jack bunny And then we've got all sorts of wonderful things going on. Did you know that this week yesterday was talk like a pirate day? Tomorrow is Rasha Shawna Friday is world rhino day and fall begins and 20th the 23rd is international rabbit day Next Thursday is world rabies day With the twist calendar, you can know these things next year too And record the things that you want to do in your own life Pre-order them now go to twist.org And while you are there at twist.org, why don't you check out some of the other options that we have for The ways you can support twist If you click on the zazzle store link that will take you to our zazzle store Where you can peruse all of our wonderful items. We've got phone covers, lumbar pillows Mouse pads mugs t-shirts sweatshirts hats bags all sorts of items. You can even get stamps You can get stamps for your holiday cards if you're sending out holiday cards Or your new year's cards or whatever you do. I don't know get a twist stamp. Wouldn't that be cool? Support twist and share it with people at the very same time You can do all that over at zazzle the twist logos all over things as well as much of Blair's art from previous calendars So you too can get your hands on some of that art if you missed a previous calendar Then if you go back to twist.org you can also Help us out and support us by helping us produce the show Financially so you can click on the big donate button that's down under the donate to twist box On the sidebar click on that. It takes you through a PayPal interface where you can easily Donate whatever amount you are you would like to give us to help keep the show going in its current form If you want to help us on patreon you click on that patreon link in the header bar That takes you to patreon.com slash this week in science and once you go to patreon.com You can become a part of our community over there where our patrons Pledge to give us certain amounts of money on an ongoing basis episode by episode Month after month to keep the show going and you know what you really do Keep the show going and over on patreon It's really a little community over there. You get get notes and Little messages every once in a while sometimes you get special videos different things come to you before they come to other people Patreon it's an awesome place to be Check it out But if all this Is not your cup of tea, but you still want to help us out Just consider sharing twists with people you know iTunes tell them to subscribe Or maybe on twitter tell people that you're listening to the episode and you really like it and tell people to listen On facebook share the recent episode that you enjoy again Tell people to listen tell them to check it out Tell them what you like about it if you're on youtube you can even link to specific segments of the show And send people directly to the stories that you were telling them about during cocktail hour So that they can listen to those parts of the show when they said no way that's not true You can say believe me. Here's the podcast send them on youtube So many different ways help us grow our community Help us produce the show be a part of it even more than you already are because you know what We really could not do this without you. Thank you for your support Store and finally start trusting the miracles and cures all laid down And we're back with more this weekend science. Oh, yeah, we are just in what you got Rapa newie Known as easter island by people who don't live there and probably can't find it on a map without googling it Has been confounding europeans since 1722 Early visitors estimated a population of just 1500 to 3000 Which is all well and good over it does seem a bit at odds with the 900 giant statues Dotted around the island How did the small community construct transport and erect these large rock figures? New study published in the open access journal frontiers and ecology and evolution hopes to unravel the mystery by giving the best estimate Yet of the maximum population size sustained by easter island In its heyday Quoty voice despite its almost complete isolation the inhabitants of easter island created a complicated Social structure and these amazing works of art before a dramatic change occurred said dr Cedric pulston lead author of the study based in the department of anthropology university california davis Who probably doesn't sound like this at all We've tried to solve one piece of the puzzle I'll just continue because I started that way to figure out the maximum population size before it fell It appears the island could have supported 17 500 people at its peak which represents the upper end of a range of previous estimates He adds if the population fell from 17 500 I've committed now I've got to keep doing it to the smaller number that missionaries counted many years after european contact It presents a very different picture from the maximum population Of 3000 or less as some have suggested previous archaeological evidence implies the indigenous people numbered Far greater than that 1500 and 3000 individuals encountered in 18th century Population history the island remains though highly controversial in addition to internal conflict Population crash has been attributed to eco side which the island's resources were exhausted by its inhabitants Reducing its ability to support human life We I think we might have touched on a story that uh refuted that to some extent previously balsamese con leagues examined the Art agriculture potential of the island before these events occurred and to calculate the maximum sustainability The project involved a number of really good researchers including archaeologists a local expert in rapid newy culture a social scientist a biochemist and a population biologist to get through Or to get a thorough picture of what the island was like before european contact Sorry, paulson We examined detailed maps took soil samples around the island placed weather stations used population models and estimated sweet potato production When we had doubts about one of these factors We looked at the range of its potential values to work out different scenarios They found 19 of the island could have been used to grow sweet potatoes Which is the main food crop by using information on how birth and death rates at various ages depends on food availability The researchers calculated the population size that uh size that level of production could have sustained The result is a wide range of possible maximum population sizes But to get the smallest values you have to assume the worst of everything says paulston if we continue if we compare agriculture estimates with those of other palomnesian islands the Population of 17 500 people on this size of island is entirely reasonable He concludes that easter island is a fascinating place because it was it represents an extreme example of a natural experiment in human adaptation Which began when people from a single culture Group spread quickly across the islands of the pacific different environments they encountered on these islands Generated tremendous amounts of variation in human behavior As an extremely unusual case in both its cultural achievements and its ecological transformation elan easter island Is remarkable and important, but the thing i always i think is like okay, so yeah, it seemed You know 1500 or 3000 people creating all those giant works of art on the island very improbable, right? 17 500 We got a lot more workers out there kind of makes more sense it sort of fits But then i'm like looking around i'm like The city populations You know in the county that i live in There's very few communities under 17 000 people and no great works of art that are just like you would drive by and like oh This is the township of winters Where they erected giant works of art to this i got like there's like nothing In comparison so regardless of the population right Notwithstanding Rapa Nui's past Still that thing that we're only going to know them as that separates them apart from all other Islands that immediately we can see one of their works of art And know it came from them These people created it Uh, that's the the wonderful story there create works Listen to all these small towns across the world Build giant works of art that that that history will remember you by Even if it's a giant dinosaur next to a gas station people will remember seeing that Yeah, well, that's like, uh, what is it in? I forgot the town in Central america in the plain states. There's a town that was in the path of the eclipse They didn't really realize they were going to be in a path of an eclipse at any point, but they created car henge Where they took all sorts of automobiles Stacked them up like stone henge, but it's automobiles and It was a major major location for people to attend during the eclipse But it was oh my goodness for some time. Rapa Nui Aster island. It's it's the greatest case for public, uh Public works of art This is this is look how well they've been rad. I want to go to nebraska immediately Do you want to go it's nebraska for car henge? Yeah I love it that by the way, that's that's the only thing in nebraska No, there's horse farms also that is art But I think that I think a big thing that could probably be said also is even though it was a small population of people 17,500 people maybe Um that you have also top down rule You know you had a ruler with an idea that people could get behind who would say we're gonna make this big art and everyone went Yeah And they spent their spare hours or all of their hours carving and moving giant pieces of rock Well, yeah, and then that's the other thing you think I got to think like maybe life was actually so good You know the uh, sweet potato crop was so abundant. Everything was working so fine There was time to apply to the arts and maybe nothing else to do on the island too. That's also part of it Like what are we gonna do? I know giant head statues that you know That won't frighten anybody who might come to the island and want to take it from us I'll see that and I'll just head the other way and we'll confuse scientists and visitors for a long time for centuries to come That's like a big practical joke on the rest of history. What are we what else is there to do on the island? You didn't have internet, right? right all right, so I You know, I I have I'm curious and confused about things that are in space You know, there are a lot of people on this hunk of rock. We call earth We're like, uh, yeah, I got it's nice here. I got sweet potatoes. Maybe I'll look at space go look for other planets Where I could put giant rock sculptures to scare off intruders Yes, not really but we do have a very active exoplanet discovery exercise going on at the moment with kepler and now with Hubble Going through and looking at some of these exoplanets that kepler has discovered NASA's Hubble telescope this week reported On an exoplanet that was reported was discovered a few years back. It's called wasp 12 b It's a hot jupiter So it's it's large it's gaseous And this one is really hot because it's really close to its sun It is so close to its sun. In fact that its orbit Takes about one day Earth day Spinning around and it's it's zipping around the sun and it's right Right next to it And it's very hot because it's getting all the energy from its star, right? I said sun, but it's sun its star all right, so Researchers have determined that this planet is tidally locked. It's very close So the gravitational pull of the sun has treated that planet somewhat the way that the earth has affected the moon Where only one side of the planet faces Its star all the time One side is daylight all the time and one side is night time all the time So this nasa press release comes out I go check out the nasa press release and at first i'm nodding my head and going yeah, yeah They discovered wow. They checked it out. What they looked at they watched this planet Zipping around its star And they looked at the eclipse So normally when we when we find that a planet is around a star We look for the dimming of the star light when the planet passes between us and the star Because the planet is blocking the light from the star, right? right This time they looked at the eclipse moment So they looked at because they realized it's tidally locked. They wanted to know Um what they looked at the eclipse moment when this planet moved behind the star And they looked at the luminosity of the star and they wanted to see okay Here we've got we're looking at The dip in light the dip in the luminosity As it transits in front of but then when it goes around the side and you've got the daylight side kind of in view There's an increase in the luminosity of the star and most planets They're going to have some clouds or something there's going to be some albedo And there's going to be something reflecting back And so you're going to have the light of the star the luminosity of the star plus the added light from reflectance from the planet And so when a planet eclipses behind a star normally you see a dip in light That is equal to the amount of reflectance from the planet And so it gives some amount some idea of the albedo of the planet and what's going on in the atmosphere So they checked out this wasp 12b And they were expecting a dip because they're expecting okay most hot jupiter's reflect about 40 percent of their star's light They didn't see a dip There was no dip no dip And so what they realized Is that on the daylight side of the planet even though there's water vapor in The atmosphere as a whole most of the water vapor That can collect as clouds is not collecting as clouds on the daylight side of the planet It's doing that on the cooler nighttime side of the planet And the daylight side of the planet is so hot. It's 4,600 degrees fahrenheit It's so hot that it's breaking down any molecular bonds that would be trying to form up and form clouds So clouds can't form and there's no scattering of light and there's no reflectance So what this this planet is doing is absorbing light The molecules that are in there are actually like thank you for that star light and they're sucking in light And so there's no reflectance. There's actually absorb absorption And so this and this all makes sense to me. I got it But what didn't make sense to me with the nasa Press release and the Hubble press release is that they said this is a pitch black planet Have you guys ever heard of black body radiation? If you heat if you if you heat up an iron ingot What happens to that bit of iron as it gets hotter and hotter and hotter it glows It glows It is emitting light through thermal radiation The thermal radiation actually that radiation actually gives off photons of light that are visible This is a very hot planet number one It's absorbing light which is going to be converted to more heat And so it's probably emitting a lot of thermal radiation. So it's not pitch black NASA I don't like the spin on your press release The reason you did it is because you could go with oh my god pitch black planet and people be freaking out about a pitch black Planet out in space orbiting a star when the real story here Is that researchers were able to observe the eclipsing of this planet and determine that it was so hot That it was not reflecting light As would be expected in a hot jupiter planet, but absorbing it Let's get nasa on the phone Oh Made me angry. Please hold for dr. Kiki. She's angry There you go. I just a little I have spent hours today Like this morning. I was explaining things to my son and I'm like, oh, yeah, look at this study And then marshal my husband comes in and he says Like what about what about black body radiation? Shouldn't it have some color? And I went oh my gosh You're right. And then I went back and I read the study I read the the press release again and I read the elder press release and I've read articles about it And nobody is getting it right nobody And so I would like somebody in the next week, please in the major media fix this Fix it nasa Thank you just Where else are you gonna get it or if there's a reason That that doesn't apply and they really do think it's black. We need to hear it It's darker than would be expected Is what and and this is the quote that comes from the researcher I am guessing that the person who wrote this press release heard black body regulate radiation And darker than expected from from the researcher and went oh, it's black It's a pitch black No, it's not a pitch black planet and it probably It has a dark side, of course Which is facing toward us For part of that orbit around its star But its daylight side Is emitting thermal radiation and so it and if you calculate the kelvin 4800 degrees Fahrenheit is 2800 degrees kelvin. It should be a Yellowish or maybe a reddish glow red to yellowish glow depending, but maybe there's something i'm not getting This should be this planet should have a bit of a glow to it That would be visible to the naked eye. It's not pitch black And it's not a perfect absorber either it is reflecting a very six percent of the light that is hitting it from its star So that's like not even perfect black. We have made better black on this planet Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm right there You heard it here folks. I'm so upset. I don't this I don't know why this particular thing the sensationalization and this inaccuracy it really It really made me a little upset. It's gonna keep keep me awake all night. Oh, no That's a frat and black body radio Body radiation. Yes And Marshall's like Oh It was like that can't be right. I'm like, you're right that can't be right. I need to go back and look into this and I am convinced I've convinced myself. I am right. NASA is wrong Shots fired across the bow. All right, NASA you heard it. You have to be on the show now Yeah, the journal article actually says nothing about it being a black planet Nothing in the Article, so this is the press release. It's a press release problem people Which is being picked at all sensationalism of science When the real story is actually really interesting I can't stand the sensationalism of science. Where are you next? Where are we going next researchers found non avian dinosaur living in china Found what I that what had lived in what is now china uh laying colored eggs Yeah, many modern birds as uh, you both know Similar monochrome all one color like the blue robin's egg others are multicolored like those are the dove But until now it was believed that dinosaur eggs were white And the reason I thought dinosaur eggs were white is because dinosaur everybody buys white eggs at the grocery store Yeah, it's a commonly recognizable color of egg. Yes, there's that So artist renditions probably look to the fridge For the color of a dinosaur egg. Maybe make it white. Maybe brown uh, but white eggs tend to be laid in protected nests and since dinosaurs tend to lay their eggs in Protected nests. That's what people went with scientifically speaking. They compared dinosaurs to birds Eh, we don't see that with eggs. There's a lot of things with eggs, but still And this new effort the researchers have found an example of a dinosaur that laid blue or green eggs The team reports that this was their first effort seriously to study A color of dinosaur egg. It came about after the team noticed that the heiwania Wangi fossilized egg Had a bluish tint In the past researchers had previously assumed the tint was due to some form of mineral mineralization Uh, but this new team thought hey, what if that was the color of the egg? So, uh Yeah, this is uh, the heiwania Wangi were dinosaurs with parrot-like beaks that walked on hind legs They had feathers team used mass spectrometry and Chromotographic separation to take a closer look at the eggs and detected traces of Billy Yardin and proto porphine Pigments commonly found in modern colored bird eggs Eggs were also dated back to the late Cretaceous period Which was between 166 million years ago Coloring the team suggests is a strong indication that the eggs were laid in open nests coloring would have served as camouflage Modern birds only those that lay them in open nests are colored Their findings also show that egg coloring began before the evolution of modern birds because now they found it in a dinosaur And it's starting non avian dinosaurs. So this is this is dinosaurs that weren't uh later Related to birds directly. So that's also interesting. Yeah, I mean Dinosaurs probably laid their eggs in scrapes similar to some of the primitive style Open nests that some birds have and camouflage would have made a very big difference in survival especially when you've got little You know when you've got frogs with giant mouths coming to kill you Or eat your eggs or there are other little dinosaurs coming to Rage your nest and find if you have white eggs that are out there They wouldn't stand out they would stand out and they wouldn't stand up very long I suppose although I guess I just don't understand uh bird vision well enough because There's not a lot in nature that's blue Like blue is a very unnatural color unless They were trying to blend in with the dinosaur itself Was the dinosaur potentially blue, right? Maybe I mean a blue bird laying blue eggs or blue robin laying blue eggs, I guess Like a combination of blue and green or a blue green color something that looks like a rock Yeah, so that's really possible like emu eggs I've always been told that they're black and now granted I'm starting at a disadvantage because I don't see the color super well But the ones that I've seen up close have looked a lot more green than black to me But I think I think he's exactly right that that saying blue is probably an oversimplification and we're picturing like a blue crayon But or an easter egg, right, but it might be a quote blue That is really just not bright white enough to not catch the eye And kiki you had the picture of a golden eagle egg up there. That looks like a rock That looks like it could just look like some high mountain granite and you would just pass right by it right It would be very interesting to to determine because there is modeling and very interesting gradation of color on many species eggs Uh of birds and birds have been around evolving for a long time But dinosaurs were around and evolving for a long time laying their eggs the whole time and I would not be surprised if Egg coloration got its start way back then. Oh, yeah Aren't some eggs colored the way that they are to prevent brood parasites Yes, so that could be part of it as well. We don't know This could be oh my gosh where they're brood parasites dinosaurs. Yes. Wouldn't that be amazing? Dinosaurs being like, I'm peeking in your neck. I'm I'm gonna lay my egg there. I don't have to take care of a baby There we go. I'm out of here. Oh, yeah, actually That what's the deal the um brood parasites they they're more successful with colored eggs Uh, so so if you yeah A multicolored egg is less likely to get kicked out than than one that's uh It's it's an evolutionary arms race Yeah, so some of the I like that But they're gonna uh, these researchers involved here said they're gonna um Take the techniques that they used to decipher the color of this egg and they're gonna See if they can find some other dinosaur eggs and apply these same techniques to see if they can suss out some Some indication of colorization Cool Speaking of color, what color is the sky? Blue so i'm told right today. I tell your dog. Wait. What color is your sky blare? I mean blue You call it blue. I'll call it blue but That's the thing about color though. We don't know if I see blue like you see we know I probably don't but I probably don't right. Oh my gosh Yeah, so And there has been news over the years, you know looking at different uh different cultures from around the world that some have more words for color than others and historically blue Was not even a word that was used to describe the sky Blue was a color that showed up much later in our language evolution So there's as a kid you grow up and what color is the sky? What color is that and somebody tells you that's blue kid and so then you grow up and blare has her blue We have our blue We call it blue. It's the sky Because we have the word blue So a researcher edvard gibson. He's a cognitive scientist at the massachusetts institute of technology in cambridge He took a powered light box and a car battery and 80 standardized color chips to the amazon in order to connect with a group of fairly isolated hunter gatherers called the simani And they live in the jungles of south america and since they're in such isolation their language developed in isolation from other groups in the near area Simani don't have that many words for color much less than we do or english english speakers have And so according to this study in the proceedings of the national academy of sciences When he went down and asked These simani individuals to identify the colors on from his swatch of 80 color chips simani had A pretty hard time agreeing what to call Different colors when it came to black white and red the identification was Exactly equal with foreign counter parts bolivian counterparts and spanish speaking and english american english speakers Can i guess one thing they had like 50 words for green? i don't know that for sure Everything's green you can't just say what's the one that looked like oh it's a green area i was in green Yeah, like eskimos have or any what's have many many words for snow like you need that when that's all you're surrounded by Oh, and related to that. I recently read there. It's been confirmed that there are more than 200 different types of snow So that's useful. There we go. There we go. Anyway, these words for black and white derived from Dark and light so in their language they came up with the words dark and light and that's where the words black and white came from and those are kind of Universal concepts that everybody has and that's you know our black and white have also come from dark and light as well and red is really easily identified because blood Everyone's gonna be like Ah, bad blood Right yum for vampire bat or for meat Okay, fine. Okay moving on So this kind of where there is a concept That is important to individuals blood or Light or dark those concepts begin the communication of color within languages and cultures That's the idea anyway, and so all three languages the samané the spanish and the english described warm colors more easily and better than cool colors So yellows and oranges had more and better words and the preciseness was better as opposed to Blue and green those colors had fewer words and were less precise And with their less developed Vocabulary the samané were still better at describing the warm than the cool colors And so this concept of things that might be important So they examined a data set to figure out exactly why that this might be that was collected from microsoft about 20,000 photographs and in the images cool colored pixels Were more likely to be part of a photograph's background Trees in the sky versus warm colored Pixels being related to things that were behaviorally relevant like clothing or food And so what they think is that all these words That we use are culturally and behaviorally Relevant and that's how we end up with we ended up with more words for colors than the samané And the hunter-gatherers just really in their daily life, which is very simple They don't need to describe so many colors Right and again a lot of colors are pretty unnatural. Blue is a pretty unnatural color right Even purple is not something you see a lot and that's and that's part of perhaps why these were considered at one point noble Colors are like kings would dress in purple or blue Uh, like more rare in nature And they were in a harder to even find something to make them out of perhaps right like They're just not very naturally occurring colors Yeah, I mean the sky being blue again if the sky is the only blue thing you've seen you just call it sky And it doesn't need to you don't need to separate the color from the sky and apply it to other things because nothing else is blue Yeah, and most what bodies of water are not blue and then the amazon it certainly is not blue Yeah, it's a very green green or brownish color most of the time And so basically what they ended up ended up saying gibson says we see the same colors. There's no difference in color Perception we see the same colors as hunter-gatherers But they don't need to label those colors So it's all about labels What are names of colors but labels Here we go humans like to categorize we talk about it all the time We categorize things in boxes. That's right Absolutely All right. I've got a few more stories Let's get into some quick science news this one backwards. I didn't understand it. We talk about sleep deprivation all the time chronic sleep deprivation Leads to depressive symptoms. Right if you don't sleep enough The brain stops working well But if this is a chronic situation, right? What about acute sleep deprivation? There was a meta study published in the journal clinical psychiatry this last week finding But there is a significant effect of acute sleep depression on the treatment of depression And that 45 percent to 50 percent of individuals responded positively To acute sleep deprivation in the studies that were investigated studies went back from 1974 to 2016 So you're better off if you don't get sleep If you depressed is that what you're saying? Yeah, and that it's a very strange thing that in at least half of the patients in these studies They responded positively And to the same level that they would have responded to antidepressants And the researchers said we need to look into this a little bit more. We don't understand exactly why this happens There has been there has been work that suggests that this acute sleep depression might release compounds related To the drug ketamine Sleep deprivation. Sorry sleep deprivation. Yes One of the one of the symptoms of depression, right is sleeping a lot staying in bed Stuff like that. Mm-hmm. So I'm wondering if it's related to that if it kind of creates a reset It makes you're essentially being forced to get out of bed right About those who who studied and then drank versus those who didn't That that sleep period is sort of locking in the relevant information of the day Mm-hmm And if you've had a lot of depressive Emotions or thoughts throughout the day and you're sleeping a lot you are also allowing those to somehow get Locked in cataloged. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And there may be something to just Ignorance is bliss or at least not dwelling Or in printing. I don't know how to say it, but that's interesting Yeah, absolutely connection with that with that with that memory imprintation portion of what sleep does That's that's an effective tool. Yeah, so this is not a long-term A long-term treatment. This is the kind of thing where in the results they found that people responded well and benefited for about Several days to a week and then started reporting a relapse of depressive symptoms But it's pretty easy to stay up late on a saturday night Or a wednesday night or a wednesday night, that's right or a wednesday night to watch this week in science so for depression is is Perhaps caffeine and alcohol used to be a combination For several hours before bed That I'm never down This is why you're such a positive person justin because I'm I've combined all the therapeutic effects into one and I must imprint nothing when I sleep Yeah, so anyway days like the first day I've been on a planet. I've never found my keys Yeah, so there is an effect of sleep deprivation So we need more study because we really don't know why or how it works and wow how interesting How interesting well, it's interesting that that's something weird with sleep as part of the symptoms And now also has a direct effect on symptoms. Yes, very interesting crisper news researchers are reporting that they're using crisper in a Genetic removal kind of way that's not involved with human beings but with butterflies Mmm researchers wanting to find out how Researchers wanting to find out how moths Evolved into butterflies Moths butterflies with their pretty colors came from some group of moths at one point in time evolved away We had got genes that gave them very pretty colors in their wings And became painted ladies and beautiful things that we see during the daytime and identify with daytime activity What are the genes that are involved? And so these researchers at Cornell University Targeted a gene called optics another one called wind a And some other genes double sex and cortex. There's a bunch of pattern defining genes They've determined that when they remove them The effect the way the butterflies look and they're able to actually reverse paint the butterflies and Turn them black Yeah, red becomes black matt becomes shiny When optics is removed wind a removes eye spots boundaries And and lines on the wings blur and shift Uh researchers at one point they removed a gene from a butterfly The painted lady butterflies and they discovered that when you get rid of it, they just go grayscale and look like moths and the researcher read from Cornell says they just turn grayscale it makes these butterflies look like moths which is pathetically embarrassing for them And Oh my goodness, yeah But it's uh, it's an interesting way to study The genetic addition and subtraction to determine what genes actually are crucial for the coloration and the identity and the identification the characteristics that identify these different species of mods of butterflies and what What makes them so different from moths How did evolution act to turn them into the pretty butterflies of today? Thanks crisper teaching us a moth story Designer moths coming next That is right Blair, what else you got? Oh, I have a couple of uh interesting stories Paul would you hear is interesting so Yeah So back in april we talked about a study from spain looking at wax moths Breaking down plastic as it passes through their digestive system And I got really excited Because finally for the first time ever we found a way to really destroy plastic not just Break it into tinier pieces of plastic In those results, they showed that wax moth caterpillars and testins chemically biodegrade plastic mainly by making a mush of squished wax moth caterpillars and then They applied it to plastic. They just kind of put this Caterpillar mush on the plastic and reported it breaking down into ethylene glycol However, a recent study from germany just last friday They came out have reported that that they have cast doubt on this research They say it remains unclear whether the caterpillars digest the plastic with their enzymes in their gut Or whether they break down the substrate through a process of mechanical milling where they are just making it smaller but not changing it chemically they looked at the methodology of the spanish study and They to see kind of what was happening here They they took a mixture of egg yolk and ground pork And they swathed that on some plastic and got the same result And that's definitely not breaking down the plastic into different elements. So So what now there's doubt being cast They say while the biodegradation of most inert artificial polymers is definitely a very interesting research field We must respectfully disagree with the methodology and conclusions from this paper snap Snap got to wait for a response now. Yes, the researchers need to fight back called out Duped autoplay No Yeah, everywhere now, even there's how much autoplay there's romance And and the sound the sound is the worst part It's one thing if you ought to play with all the sound And then the last story that I brought tonight Was a little bit of robot domination since There is a new skin like substance. It's a stretchable electronic interface They can serve as an artificial skin which allows robotic hands to sense the difference between hot and cold But it also offers advantages for a wide range of biomedical devices So the the main thing here is the ability to tell at touch between hot and cold But it also Has some interesting opportunities Where they can actually with electronic signals The skin can interpret computer signals sent to the hand and reproduce ASL American sign language signals So they can take computer signals and make American sign Which would be a great interpretation But that also gives the opportunity to go the other way You could interpret American sign into English. So the robotic skin can translate the gesture to readable letters and electric impulses to gestures So robotic hands Well on the way To speaking sign language Uh-huh helping and helping and being able to tell if things are too hot. Yes Here touch this for me. I don't want to touch it myself. Yeah For forget about having a hot pad. Just use your robotic hand Absolutely Oh my all right Justin And how you use your robotic hand and the future may be informed by this next study faculty members of the Indiana University School of Public Health Bloomington and the school center for sexual health promotion recently published a paper in the journal of sex and marital therapy focused on addressing gaps in scientific understanding of women's sexual pleasure Quoty voice of debbie herbedic There had been little known about at the population level about detailed aspects of women's sexual pleasure and orgasm Most previous studies utilized clinical college and convenience samples We worked to change that with this research and provide data surveying a u.s. Nationally representative probability sample of adult women uh Herb and Nick and our team Research including brian dodge associate professor of the iu school of public health bloomington conducted the omg yes Sexual pleasure report the study findings from the researchers research teams omg. Yes pleasure report Women in touch focused on orgasm and sexual pleasure as related to general touch and stimulation The study results challenged the mistaken but common notion That there's our universal sex moves That work for everyone says dodge On the other hand the data also make clear there are certain styles of touch That are more commonly preferred by women emphasizing the value of studying sexual pleasure Not just sexual problems. The study found that more than a thousand women Ages 18 to 94 surveyed reported a diverse set of preferences for general touch location pressure shape and pattern Further 41 percent of the women preferred just one specific style of touch Not that they all agreed on the same one But that they specifically liked just one style themselves underscoring the value of couples having conversations about preferences and desires The study provides the first u.s. National representative data on pathways to orgasm during intercourse Noting that nearly 75 percent of women reported that clitoral stimulation was either necessary For the intercourse orgasms or helped their orgasms feel better Well 18 percent noted that vaginal penetration alone was sufficient for orgasm so This is a this is actually a pretty fascinating website that has covered omg. Yes, which I found because of the study Which has It is basically A women's guide to orgasm and then and not just a guide to it like how-to tips, but it's a conversation about that That has been and at times perhaps in the past was a taboo subject or wasn't the subject at any point talked about But it's sort of like an open access sort of participatory You can give your feedback you can participate And has sort of interesting statistics up front uh, if you go to If you let's see is it under yeah under how it works there's research They sort of are publishing some of the statistics about different motions and what percentage Found that to be a good thing Um, and there's things that you know, this is new language Accenting framing staging layering orbiting signaling edging These are all Hinting consistently surprise rhythm multiples. There's a lot of new lingo That if you don't have then maybe you could add this to your linguistic repertoire at the very least omg. Yes Well, it sounds like the the moral of the story is talk to each other Yeah, but and that and that no no two women are really gonna be the same And probably no two men are gonna be the same and everybody has their personal preferences and Right, there's all of that to it. But also it's giving It's giving a language to have that conversation in right and it's getting specific language to have that conversation and which if you didn't have That knowledge of the specific language that you could be having this conversation in you can't be having this conversation because You don't have the language with which to have this conversation, right? It's like what color is the sky talking? I don't have a word for that Yeah You can't have the conversation you can't So it's gonna give you a lot of words to have that conversation with Apparently a lot of words But I think the other good interesting thing about this study is that uh, that it is a study and It is that this is a research company that's working to try and I don't know to answer some questions and it's asking a lot of questions over a range of ages and it's not Like we've we've had this sort of I think we've always colored a lot of our conversations that were sex studies at the college level Where it was students who participated like These are like why would we take advice from them? Why would we think that that's they don't even know what they want? I have no idea That's what but I mean like there there is an element of that Which there's there's just bias in the age groups that usually participate in this and the fact that they open this up From 18 to 91 or 94 what it what it was. Um, I think that's important too Um, and you can dig into the research methodology. Yeah, I love it. Yeah This is this is interesting. It's fun Thanks for that And I think that does it that brings us to the end of another episode of this week in science We have made it through two hours full of science. No interview needed A couple of rants here and there but you know you know so At this moment in time, I would like to thank everyone who has stuck with us through this entire show I would also like to thank everyone who is Who didn't but who started and was there for a little bit Give up put us on pause. Yeah, we know you hear us now as you rebooted it later on and listen to it Glad you made it Everyone in our chat rooms. Thank you so much. Thank you to fata Thank you to identity for and thank you to brandon for helping us out all the time And I would like to thank my our patreon sponsors Thank you so much To paul disney. Oh, it's restarting. 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There we go paul disney g burton ladamore john retta swami richard onan Onamus Byron leo kevin parochan jacklyn boister tyron fong andy grow keith corcel jake jones jerald sorrell's chris clark richard hendricks charlene henry brian hedrick john gridley steve bickle kevin rails back ulysses adkins james friedel james randall david friedel james randall ball cartel mark mesaros edward dire trainer eddie for leila marshal clark larry garcia randy mezuka tony steele Gerald and yago steve debel louis smith the hardened family i've shman greg guthman patrick cohen because any of a cul-v-a-daryl runes or angela alex wilson jason striderman jave's neighbor jason dozier Matthew Whitman eric nap jason roberts driss reporter rodney david widely robert astin sir frankadelic christopher rapin i've lost it i was going so well i've lost it again and while you're resetting can i ask a question yes are they in there in no particular order no particular order no particular order they're in there let's 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This Week in Science. This Week in Science. This Week in Science. This Week in Science. This Week in Science. This Week in Science. All right, everybody. This is This Week in Science. This is the end of the show. We are going to keep moving into the after show, which I don't know if it's going to be much of an after show, but we're here for a few more minutes. Justin's not here. He might come back. I don't know. How does black body radiation affect color? Do you know? See, you're not sleeping tonight. I'm not going to sleep all night. I'm going to be learning. I'm learning so much. I mean, I knew some things, but I've been figuring things out and I can figure out some more things. Hmm. Seriously. Okay. So there was a study that came out of Wikipedia that determined that Wikipedia is actually a scientific source, despite what people say. It's a good place to start a fact-finding mission. I agree with that. Yes. Hold on. I'm going to find the source and then there was news. Where's the news? I haven't. This is probably another thing that I shouldn't be. It's probably taken out of context because it was a press release. Okay. The source code of Wikipedia is available for everyone. Okay. Great. This isn't the study. TNW. Notice that this is not a good source of information. Researchers at MIT and the University of Pittsburgh released a paper that shows a direct correlation between information made available on Wikipedia and how likely that work is to be referenced in future scientific literature. Yeah. So basically researchers are using Wikipedia as an initial source also. I mean, it's a good overview of the topic. Yeah. Although, I mean, looking at this black, it's a great overview of a topic, but sometimes the descriptions of things, oh my goodness. Yeah. Sometimes the descriptions are made by experts for experts and, or by experts who don't understand that other people don't understand the words they use, but it does send you on a nice little rabbit hole sometimes. That's true. It's one of the great things about Wikipedia that's also kind of terrible is I will often go to Wikipedia for one thing and end up with 10 tabs open. Yeah. Because of all the hyperlinked words, I'm like, oh, well, I need to look that. Oh, well, what's, oh, well, I mean, and usually it's like animal stuff. I'm looking up for the show. And so I'm like, oh, what's the common name for this spider? And then they're like, it's in this family. And I was like, click that. And I'm like, oh, common name for this family of spiders is this kind of spider. And then it just. It's actually. What's interesting is that's actually the only time when it's actually appropriate to look up the entomology of a word. Entomology. Why is it that every time I look up the entomology of a word, I get all this stuff about bugs. It makes no sense. How does every word. So I want you guys to look at this picture of a lava flow. Whoa. Yeah. Which is serious. About 1800 to 2100 degrees Fahrenheit. Half that is less than half the temperature of this planet. So it's supposed to be pitch black. I want you to look at the color that you see there. That's not black. I'm sorry. It's not even dark. There is actually a lot of light emitting as a result of that thermal radiation there. Just. You better march your butt over to Florida. That's where they are. Right. Hot rod. Shush. Right. I go to Florida. Go to Florida. Oh my goodness. Go tell them what's what. Oh my God. If you guys, my cat is like doors barely open and the cat is poking her paw through the door. She's like, I'm going to open the door, but I'm not really just this little tiny bit of a paw. It's kind of like just on the edge of the screen. She got the door open. Hi. Hi Stella. What you doing? Time to say hi. Huh? She said, I heard the music. That means I can come out. It was really fun though. This morning having a conversation, finding this story about this planet enabled me to have a conversation about why this guy is blue with my son. It was so funny that I was like, do you know why this guy is blue? And he looks at me and it goes. Yes. Hi. Hi. She said, I heard the music. That means I can come out. And it goes, yes. What did he say? Oh, you don't want to get down to you. Because it's the sky. Because it's the sky. Mommy. No. He says, he said that he goes, I know he says, he says the sun has all the colors, sunlight has all the colors of the rainbow in it. And then it comes and it hits our planet. But we have where there's, we have an atmosphere. And he says, we, there's, there's things mall. There's particles. I don't know exactly. I think it's particles. There's particles in the atmosphere. There are lots of them. The light bounces around. The light bounces around. Pretty much. Yeah. Pretty much got it there. Good job, kiddo. I'm like, where'd you learn that? I said, I don't know. TV. No things. Yeah. Really, really, really scattering. Really the researcher is also very important in the. The discovery or the explanation of black body radiation as well. Just to continue along that. Line of conversation. Body radiation. My whole childhood. Adults kept telling me. The sky is blue because the oceans. Like the color of the oceans are reflected into the sky. Yeah, that's wrong. Yeah. And then I would, I got older and I was like, hold the phone. Hold the phone. Number one. The ocean is not blue. It's basically green. So no. Number two. What about on land? There's all sorts of holes in this. There's many holes on it. Why is the sky blue if I'm in the middle of Nebraska looking at car range? Car range. Okay. Give me any, any two digit number. And I will times it by 11. Any two digit number. 72. 72. I'm going to say 792. Give me another one. Oh, that's neat. I've never realized that. Right. That's a cool pattern. Isn't it? So, uh, oh, how it adds together. 81 would be 891. Is that right? That's it. That's right. So, but how would you do? How would you do like? Hit me with it. 84. 84 is perfect. That is. That would be 12. 924. 924. Yeah. 924. That's really cool. Isn't that cool? That's a cool check. So, you take the, you take the two numbers. So, it's, uh, say, say, say 71 and you split them. You put the seven one side and one to the other and you add them together. Seven and one. You put the eight in the middle. 781. That's 11 times 71. That's pretty cool. Now, you get into the remainder problem like we did with the, uh, what was it? 84. And you take eight to the side, you put four to the side and you add them together and you get 12. So, you put the two in the middle and you add the one to the, hey, the remainder thing, nine and eight and you get 924. And you can actually do this with a three digit number as well. What? Yeah. Let's take something simple. 11 times 11. Well, you got your ones on the outside, but then you take that one in the middle and you add it together. You take those, the middle and the outside and any middle and the other inside and you get one, two, two, one. That's how you do that. And you can even follow that remainder too and push it over. Like it's, is that a remainder or whatever it is? You know what you're teaching right now, Justin? New math. New math. When I, when I was in elementary school, I was around for the like three years that they tried to teach exclusively new math. And suddenly the sub, the subject that was my favorite, I hated. Oh no. Yes. Because my brain doesn't do that as well. My brain. So a lot of people that historically don't like math respond really well to new math, but some people that get math inherently have issues with new math. Yeah. I don't know. I'm having an issue with these tricks. Exactly. So, but I can actually see the multiplication problem in my head and I can multiply it. Okay. Exactly. 123 times 11. I'm going to put down three. I'm going to add the 10 or three and I'm going to get a five. I'm going to add the one or two. I'm going to get a three and I'll put the one together. And I get one, three, five, three. See, and I would rather do 122 times 10 plus 122. And that my brain would do much faster. That's just a cool pattern. Yeah. No, absolutely. That's fine. I like we were fun pattern. We're playing with my daughter watching math videos today. Awesome. That's cool. That's fun. Yeah. It just, it goes to show you that like it's the way to teach. There's no one right way to teach a thing. No, that's the problem. I mean, it's like, it's like having, you know, learning PowerPoint. You know, there are so many different ways to get to the same solution. Yeah. And you still have a pretty picture. Yes. Are you a, are you a, like a right click sort of person or a menu based person or like a toolbox based person. There's like six different ways to do anything. Right. Yeah. What's the, what do you want? Oh my goodness. I'm finally seeing your email. I'm waiting to get a cat. No. What email? What email? What did I do? You said, twist needs to do this. Oh yeah. I thought it was fun. There was an, uh, Justin, you might, I don't know if you saw the video. There was an old, it's an old video from like several years back, but it would be a fun, it's like, uh, a trivia or choose your own adventure type, uh, type thing where you start the video and then you can ask a trivia question and then have different links to different answers, like true or false or whatever different answers are on the sides and people click on them. And then they go to whatever the response is. And so then we have to make two videos, one for, oh, you got it right. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then the next question for, oh, where, where you got it wrong. Do you know why this isn't a thing? What? Because after asking a series of 10 questions, you've created a 100 videos. No. I know. Yes. It's not a thing. You're like, we're not doing this. No, no. I'm all for it. I'm just saying. There's a reason you don't see a lot of this. That's right. Yes. But we could be the ones that put in the Yeoman's effort of endless, endless nuanced responses to every right, wrong question through the tree. Absolutely. Totally do that. Be the ones. We could make a science, choose your own adventure. Or a, an audio book, choose your adventure. You know, it would be fun for a storyteller. Yeah. And if you're familiar at all with a real choose your own adventure book, you do, you do merely recognize that you can recycle a ton of material because you can, you have one trajectory sometimes lead back to the, you know, a couple of different trajectories early on, can we back to the same place that they then go forward from therefore saving thickness of pages need that need to be written. So I used to love choose your adventure books. I know those are the best. So I had this compulsive desire to read the whole book. And so it was really hard for me to get through a choose your own adventure book because I would like make my decision and read it and get to the end where they make you make your next decision. I'd be like, I got to go back and see what the other one was. I did the same thing. I actually like I would rip up pieces of paper and use them as placeholders. Yes. Yes. So that I could go back and decide I don't like that ending. I need to go back. Yeah. I'm going to go back again. I loved it because I could do whatever I wanted. I'm like, this book is mine. I can read any possible trajectory that I want. And I'm not going to die. I refuse to die. The one that I read a bunch when I was a kid. It was, I wonder if it came before honey, I shrunk the kids. Or if it was a cheap knockoff after, but it, you shrank and you were in the yard. And there was like a cat and there were bugs and you had to like build a shelter out of grass. And I very clearly remember like coming across the cat and then choose your own adventure. And I, yeah, I wonder now as an adult, I'm like, was that, was that like really old, like from the 70s and it was pre-honey, I shrunk the kids. Possibly. Sounds like something Google could tell me about. Oh, there's like all kinds of online choosing and adventure stories, but you have to read them. You have to read them. Oh my goodness. So hard. Help your shrinking. That's it. All right. I'm tired tonight. Quiet. Tired. No, but choose your own Trump biography that strengths came up. That's actually more of a. I'm just busy watching the drain crash that's happening in real life. Awesome. Yeah, let's go to sleep. Let's go do that. Let's get our, I think we've been awake. This is enough. A cute sleep deprivation. Isn't it? Yeah. I'm going to have a lot tomorrow. Good night. Good night. Minions. Hi everybody. It is night. Say good night. Hi players. Say good night. Justin. Good night. Justin. Good night. And everyone. I hope you enjoy the fall equinox that you enjoy the turning of the season. It's already happened here in Portland. The fall has come. And we will see you in the fall. Have a nice trip. See you everyone. Come back next week. Thanks so much for being here.