 Ich weiß nicht, wie es euch geht, aber ich habe noch ziemlich genau die Erinnerungen... Ich kann es noch erinnern, dass ich die Tage, in denen es viele Homesurges in der Region, um die Chaos-Computer-Klub, nicht erinnern kann. Ich hätte nicht known, was die Polizei zu tun hat. Ich habe mich auf mein Dorf und meine Homes aufgesucht. Wir alle wissen, was zu tun hat, in diesem Fall nicht über unsere Behaviour, aber auch die Reise, die wir haben. Und Kristina und die Assistenz der Lawyer, Jens Kubitziel, ist jemand, der schon gestorben hat. Und jemand ist nach Hause, um 6 Uhr zu kommen. Deswegen haben sie sich gesagt, wir wissen nicht, was zu tun hat. Wir haben eine Präsentation über das. Sorry. Oh, ich habe vergessen, was zu sagen. Das ist das gute Amt. Das ist das gute Ding, über die 35 C3. Man kann immer auf die Audience sprechen, das ist sehr schön. Und wie man auf dem Stadion verabschieden muss. Ich werde das auch lernen. Und ihr werdet heute lernen, wie man das richtige Ding tun kann, wenn ihr Zuhause gebraucht ist. Ich werde heute über das große Arzt sprechen. Es gibt so viele Bordekonditionen, damit wir in dem Ende viel Ruhe für Fragen und Ansätze haben. Also bitte fragen wir Fragen im Endeffekt. Und dann können wir vielleicht über ein paar Spezifikaten sprechen. Aber zuerst haben wir drei große Sektionen. Es waren Fragen über was zu tun. Christine und ich haben gedacht, dass wir das ein bisschen reden sollten. Wir haben das ein bisschen strukturiert. Was ist vor der Suche? In dem besten Fall, dass alle hier in der Audience den ersten Schritt machen. Dann werden die Städte zwei und drei nicht in der idealen Situation passieren. Aber vielleicht wird das passieren. Dann ist es gut, bereit zu sein. Die wichtigste Sache für mich ist die Präparation. In einigen Fallen hatte ich eine wege Idee über das. Aber es war wirklich so, dass, als Wettbewerb, in dem Fall, wir da sind, und als Wettbewerb, haben wir komplett verschiedene Reise. Und als der Erkühler. Und ich möchte darüber reden, dass der erste Schritt ist, um die Kontakte für den Lawyer zu schauen. Vielleicht können wir uns ein paar Business Cards anhanden. Es ist wirklich sehr wichtig, uns zu wissen, um Lawyer zu stellen. Oder in deinem Heckspaces, in deinen Club- oder Gesellschafts-Roums, wo jeder weiß, wo er ist und kann die Nummern schnell finden. Und hier, auf der rechten Seite, siehst du diesen kleinen Sticker aus dem Codecom, der auf Heckspaces wurde, oder jeder, der den Datenschleudermagazin bekommt, hat es bekommen. Und du findest auch das Field, wo du die Zahl der Lawyer in den Club-Roums hast, und da ist es wichtig, dass du eine Reise, eine Arbeitsplätze, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, eine Reise, Je nachdem, deinerкус Berlin, und his Isn, vom Beamtenfall, und nicht einfach nicht. Wir haben eine Erweiterung über die Sicherheit. Was ist mit uns passiert ist, dass die Polizei in der Warrant gesagt hat, die Namen der Donatoren für 2017, von Januar 2018 bis Juni 2018, und was sie gemacht hat, war, dass sie die Kabel geöffnet haben und alle Klub- und Dokumenten, und nicht mehr Dokumenten. Also, du musst auch eine Art Backup für deine Papier-Dokumenten haben. So, über die Operation der Sicherheit. Es spielt eine Rolle. In einem anderen Kontext, ich habe darüber gesprochen. Es ist offiziell. Was ist mit der Lock-Date, mit der Lock-File auf deinem Service? Was ist mit der Lock-File, mit der Wifi, was du mit der Daten machst? Nicht einfach, dass du dich nicht Quemapier-Dokumenten verletzt, um die L Neo-L Nazis zu verletzen. Wollt du dich eine Art Lock-Date verletzen, das Streich, das Streich, das Streich, das Streich, oder das Streich, das Streich, das Streich, das Streich. Das Streich wird nicht aufs Mades Christine, weil wir haben diese Diskussion über das. Du musst klar sein, dass, wenn du dein Name auf etwas putzt, dann ist es wirklich. Kann wirklich sein, connectet zu dir. Und du kannst dann sagen, wenn du 15 Laptops von 40 Leuten von 40 Leuten benutzt, und wenn du nicht wissen, welches belongs zu, dann, dann ist es hart, zu, zu benutzen. Und so ist es eine zu edgede Sorte, und du musst wirklich denken, wenn du das willst. Die Sicherung für die, die nicht involviert sind, ist vielleicht besser, weil sie es nicht lange nehmen. So die Kraft der Faktion ist dann sehr wichtig. Aber manchmal funktioniert es nicht. Und sie sagen, wir nehmen alles anyway. So in unserem Fall war es der Fall, dass mein Sohn das Laptop gefunden hat. Und mein Sohn, Glückwunsch, hat mit colorful Letters und hat seinen Namen auf den Laptop gemacht. Und die einzige Sache, die sie gemacht hat, war, dass sie es auf den Laptop zu drehen. Und es gibt nur einen Login, der die Kinder das Laptop nennen, und so hat es in diesem Fall gearbeitet. Aber es kann auch zu anderen Problemen führen. Aber das Computer hat dann auf den Laptop gedreht. Also in diesem Fall. Aber es gab wirklich nicht viel zu nehmen. Und die Leute fragen mich auch, wie das funktioniert. In welchen Räumen waren sie? Und die Polizei hat sich in das Kinder-Räum und hat das Laptop gesehen. Und das war es. Es war noch ein Laptop. Und es wurde nie gefunden und war nicht geübt. Und das Bathroom war nicht geübt. Aber vielleicht, wenn du das kennst, vielleicht kannst du dir alles in den Bathroom aber du kannst das machen. Aber vielleicht. Aber ich hatte ein paar Kontakte mit Regal-Officials. Und wenn sie für elektronische Devices schauen, sie versuchen, alles zu nehmen, was sie finden können. Aber es ist auch der Fall, dass sie vielleicht für eine SSD mit so und so viele Gigabytes Kapazität von der Manufacturer und dann sie schauen für die Apartment, bis sie genau das Device gefunden haben. Und das kann zu crazy sein. Aber auch vielleicht sie werden die Wahlen in einem extremen Fall damageen. Ich frage mich wirklich, was sie gefunden haben und nicht wissen wollen, was sie nicht gefunden haben. Aber ich habe in Terror-Kasen, Terrorism-Kasen und dass das Handy unter der Stoffe da drin war und dann begann. Und sie finden es anyway. Und mein Vorsicht ist, wenn sie wirklich für etwas Besonderes suchen, dann wird sie wirklich nicht aufhören. Und es hilft nicht wirklich, um die Dinge zu halten, weil es eigentlich ein schlechtes Situation hat. Aber es gibt Leute, die vielleicht nicht über das übernehmen. Es ist wirklich ein großer Thema. Man kann alles hacken, aber man kann nicht aufhören. Man sollte nicht aufhören. Und wir können noch ein paar Vorschläge geben, aber es ist wirklich zu viel für dieses Gespräch hier in diesem Ort. Der Punkt ist wirklich, dass man wirklich wissen sollte, was man tut. Man kann immer für den Home-Search bereit sein. Und die Frage ist wirklich, was meine Reihen sind, als eine Defendant. Und vielleicht kannst du viel über das sagen. Man kann das ganze Abend mitnehmen, aber wir versuchen, das hier zu halten. Zu den Telefonnummern, fragt die Lawyer für ihre Telefonnummern, weil die Office-Nummer, die früh am Morgen auf 4 a.m. kommt, nicht dir helfen, außer dass die Lawyer panikiert, wenn er dann die Antwort auf die Maschine hört. Aber warum es so wichtig ist, dass du deine Reihen kennst, ist, dass wir Lawyer sind, besonders im politischen Raum. Es gibt keinen, dass der Threshold eigentlich herkommt. Und es kann alles passieren. Wenn du nur ein Club oder nur ein Witness hast, wenn du nicht mit irgendetwas verabschiedet oder verabschiedet bist, und du nicht alles falsch gemacht hast, dann kannst du einfach mehr oder weniger durchs Leben gehen. Aber auch wenn es nur eine Post ist, von einer Konkrigation, wenn es ein EPG-Flag ist, der kategorisiert ist, für die Symbols der terroristischen Organisation. Und das ist passiert. Und weil Facebook und Postenoffice von Parlaments haben gesucht, und es ist eine Inflation der Home-Searchs. Als Defender hast du die meisten Reihen nicht verabschiedet, aber es könnte nicht wirklich in dieser Situation nicht verabschiedet werden, aber als Erkrankter. Du hast immer die Möglichkeit, in jeder Situation zu fragen, du kannst immer für den Legal-Kouncil fragen. Und du hast immer, auch während der Suche, einen Recht zu sein, ein Lawyer zu verabschieden. Und es betrifft auf die Officer, wie sie eigentlich die Reihen respektieren. Und manchmal sagen sie, alright, alright, we see that you can't hide anything, but we wait for the Lawyer. We also see colleagues, where the Lawyer hasn't been allowed to enter the apartment, for example. So, this really depends on the officer in charge. There is also a right to introduce another person that is not part of the ongoing investigation, that is allowed to overlook what the officials are doing. Oftentimes, the officials already bring along someone from another kind of authority, and from all sorts of authorities, that isn't really an independent witness. For example, I was once the counsel at a search in Dresden, and there they introduced another person from the same authority as the independent witness. And it was kind of a weird situation for everyone. You don't have to help with the ongoing search. You don't have to inform them. You don't have to turn on any laptops. You don't have to enter any passcodes. You don't have to unlock your phone. You do not have to cooperate. You do not have to talk with them. And me and many of my colleagues suggest that you do not talk to the officials about anything. Also, not any small talk. You do not have to talk, so you shouldn't talk. It seems that there might be some form of change of the law ongoing. So in some situations, you might have to be forced to talk. But this only happens at the police station. And in any case, you shouldn't. You do not have to cooperate. So there is an ongoing case in Thuringia. There is an organization with a limited space. And the police has called them. And they wanted to have to log data from all of the people that logged on to the internet. Because there was some form of crime in the area. And I was questioned, well, do we have to give them the data? And my answer was, of course, no. Of course, no. They might ask you nicely or not nicely. But you are allowed to answer that question with no. As long as there is no decision by a court, you do not have to cooperate in any way. These are the basic rules. You might have seen them in some form of leafletter flyer. So, for example, in that flyer on the slide, you can also contact any form of anti-repression organization, for example, der Rote Hilfe. And they will also tell you the very same thing. So, now we're at the next step, that it is 6 o'clock in the morning, and there is someone standing at the door. And you're thinking to yourself, OK, what do I do now? So the most important thing for that, I think, is to keep cool, stay calm. I know that might be hard if there's eight or ten police officers standing in front of the door and staying there. But it is important that you have to think about, well, what are my rights? What can I do? And what's very important is that you stay and keep away from any sort of violence. It might also be very expensive if you do anything violently against the police. So, for example, we have an example dialogue here. The police say hello, you answer hello back. And they might stay in front of the door and tell you, well, we want to enter. And you ask the question back, well, are you allowed to? Do you have some kind of decision by a court? And you should request them to show you some kind of paper. They will ask again, well, we want to enter. And you are supposed to ask the question, well, do you have a copy of that piece of paper? And in our case, there was a piece of paper, but it might be the case that they don't bring it along. Well, they once again say they want to enter. And you ask again, well, is there an independent witness around, and they might bring someone along. In our case, that was the case. And that person was in a bad mood for whatever reason, maybe because it was 6 o'clock in the morning. And at some point, that is also solved, there is the witness there. And then they still proclaim, they want to enter. And we said, no. Well, as long as they ask the question nicely, do you want to, are we allowed to enter? You should always say no. But in this case, you have the right to do so. So they might ask questions at every room. Like, are we allowed to enter that room? Are you allowed to open this cupboard? And whenever they ask the question, it is a good idea to answer it with no, even if they have the right, because they will do it anyways. At the end of the search, there will be a protocol. And there are a number of checkboxes. And it is important that on this protocol, the checkboxes across, that say that you haven't cooperated. You should, of course, contact your lawyer. So in our case, all of the electronic devices, including smartphones, were already seized. So it is pretty hard. It might be hard to actually get in touch with your lawyer. What does one do there? Once again, it's the question, how does the officials, how do they act? Some of them might say, well, here, take back your phone and call your lawyer. That might be not really thought through by the official. So they don't really do that, but sometimes they do. And if you have the number, if you have the number ready, then you should tell them, well, maybe you can't give me the phone, but please call this number and tell them, tell my lawyer that they are supposed to come around. Some of the officials do that, but nevertheless, there are some officials that really do not care. They might say, well, we are going to, this is going to be over so soon anyways. The lawyer will not be able to come in time anyway. So in these cases, you should insist on the contact to the lawyer. And if it is denied to you, you should document it in a very detailed fashion. You should write down when you ask for contacting your lawyer and that you have asked again and again and again and write this down on a piece of paper. This might help later on in the ongoing investigation. What has never happened is that it is a positive thing that you have cooperated actually with the police. I have never seen that before, that cooperation has helped in an investigation. The other thing is that in case electronic devices are being confiscated and they are encrypted, they might tell you, well, please give us the password because otherwise we are going to give it to our forensics department and they are going to crack it open anyways very soon. But it is important to insist that you are not doing that and you have all rights to refute it. Sometimes these devices stay with the police for months or even years and they are unable to crack it. So do not cooperate. They only ask that question because it works all of the time. If everyone would answer, no, I am not giving you my password, then they wouldn't ask anymore. But many times they do. With Nazis, for example, they willingly cooperate often. But I always insist that my clients do not do that. There are reports that even after years they are unable to crack encrypted devices. What they can crack is, and I have seen it before, give us your passcode or otherwise we will coordinate with a company called Celebrate. And this will be very, very expensive. This might cost 2.000 euros or something. And that is happening when it is not really encrypted, but a passcode is missing. And that happens. And then these 2.000 euros have been spent. Because the cost is really not the point anymore. It will be expensive anyways. OK. The people are in your home and running around in your house. And it's a good idea to accompany them and see what they open in which cupboards they open. And you can tell them, please wait until I'm there. And it happened that I wasn't at home, but only my wife and my children were there. The children had to go to school. And of course, they were all over the apartment. And please ask them. And usually that works if you really want to accompany them and see what they do in the different parts of the apartment. And what I get asked often is, if you still have a device that can film, you can film it all. Is that allowed? Well, about filming, I don't know any regulation that forbids it. It's police officers, they are not there privately. But you cannot publish it. But it depends on what you really, if you want to film the officers. But if you really have the possibility to document the search, it has the purpose that they have to do it one room after another. And there are some searches where there's a big battalion and they do all rooms at the same time. And you lose track of it. But they should really do it in a way that the accused can always be there and see what happens there. And the reason is to document what it looked like before and what it looked like afterwards and accept the mess that they leave. There may be some damages. And perhaps, if you're lucky, it has been illegal. And maybe then you want to have it replaced. And then to know who damaged the cupboard, et cetera. So you cannot publish that. That's important. All right. And I talked about that in the end. There's a record of confiscation. There should contain all the devices, all the things that have been confiscated. And they should really describe precisely which USB sticks and which devices and what description. Read it carefully so that every single piece, every single device has been described exactly. And that this record of confiscation, which parts have been checked. And maybe you have a field there. We can write that you have protested against the measure. And you should really take the time to read it carefully and maybe write a note if possible. Another thing about the protocols or the records, even if it's really a big effort and even if it means the policeman will be longer in your Hexbase or in your apartment or in your house or your office, they have to document very, very precisely. And if they just say 15 USB sticks black, it doesn't tell you anything. If, for example, we'll show an example afterwards, what happens after the search. If sometime later they weren't allowed to take that and then they say we want to keep one USB stick or how many they took. We had searches where they said one bag full of thumb drives. And so how many USB sticks do you have at home? Does anyone know? Somebody knows. Four people know. Okay, how do you know that they have returned all of them? So really be very careful. And they have to write down the manufacturer or number. They have to write down everything precisely. And but it can become very important. In our case, when they were done with the search, the officers from Bavaria really put pressure on us that they wanted to go home. Well, they didn't have to come in the first place. Well, yeah, sure. And you really have to say luckily, they offered us from Turingia, they really tried to give time to my wife so they could do everything. Maybe they were lucky, but they really tried to put the pressure on them so that they had to go and that it was enough and so on. And that was the case there. So, after the search, you already talked about that. The first step is to really make a memory protocol, what happened at what time, make a documentation of the search of the Hexbase or the Clubhouse. And that's the point where you should talk to your lawyer about what next steps to take. And you can do different things. And then the lawyers can really do their magic. Well, no, not really. So, what lawyers do then is ask where are the things. That's a little extension of last year's talk. Sometimes it makes a lot of sense because they may say they're all with the secret service. And what do they have to do with it? And then they say, we think that is illegal. Return the things. And normally the accused want to know where the things are. If you don't have a mobile phone, no computer, no router, no USB stick, and it's a really financial strain because you need it for your work, etc. So you demand the things back. And you can talk about that. Do you really want these things? Want to use these things again? Yes or no? But maybe it makes a lot of sense sometimes to tell the policemen that they can copy and mirror the devices if they really need the data and they don't need the device. And sometimes maybe they mirror them, copy them and return them. If I may add that. Interestingly, in Thuringia, that's a standard procedure. If witnesses are searched and the hard disks are mirrored and the device will be returned within a day or two, so will the police say. And in my case they said, no, you won't get your stuff back. So it's differently sometimes. And what we do as lawyers usually is then, we use legal means against these decisions or maybe we protest formally or we want to have stated that it is illegal and then the legal works start grinding. And the thing that affected Jens here, the court that made the warrant and we think this warrant is illegal and the prosecution, they said, no, it's completely legal. And the judge who decided about the warrant also decided about the complaint and then she said, no, what I did was okay. So, isn't that always the case? The culture, how to work, how to handle your own mistakes isn't very well advanced and we really have to think about your case. So, we have unknown people who have a website or two websites and there's a suspicion that they call for illegal acts and or maybe for illegal actions against a right-wing party demonstration or had to inside violence and inside burning cars, et cetera. And maybe there's an initial suspicion for crime and then they start and there was an e-mail address on one of the pages on riser.net and they looked at the page at riser.net and they looked at it and said, oh, we don't have to pay for that. For example, as in, as with commercial web space providers and at riser.net, riser.networks, there's an account for donation and that's with the Zwiebelfreunden, the Friends of the Onion and with this club they had the suspicion that they would find the data, personal details of the people who donate and the criminals might be among those and you could perhaps just surveil every baker in Augsburg because maybe they bought their breakfast rolls at the bakery and so. Then the court said, if the prosecution came to them and asked for that and said, yes, fine, sure, search them and the judge and the court then said, well, yeah, it's, it's interesting what you lawyers say about constitutionally protected space, but sure, that's all right, but not in this case because it's a very serious crime and then the court in Munich said it was illegal and so you don't have to pay the costs for the lawyer, etc. But the good thing was that the measures cannot be considered covered by the prosecution laws and the court says that if the prosecution asks a judge to do that and the judge signing that warrant are outside the law and this is really one of the worst things to say about a judge or a prosecution and well, obviously I can understand that but really writing that down is quite a new thing. Worauf ist es sich auch immer ein bisschen lohnt? It's also very valuable as a lawyer to take care of certain things is the small things there was not a lot of movements around prosecutorial conduct. The measures about searching of houses have been a little lax. There was a there was a maintainer of a platform and they basically said that every router, every telephone, every device was to be searched but then a judge said you can't just put in there that every single medium that you can find will be in scope. It needs to be more specific. I'm not entirely sure how to make that better but it's a small win. We're still fighting about every single USB stick and it's a bit difficult because they basically didn't list them all they just said 15 of them. This is something the lawyers then do. Another thing they also do is we're not at the damages yet but die Betroffenen davon abzuhalten doch noch. The affected parties we really need to make sure that they don't give up the passwords after the fact. I've often seen that that the officials say that give us your password or there's damages of an order of amount x and we usually tell them to just refuse and they always say yeah it's gonna be faster but our experience is not that. It's always worse for the affected party and you really shouldn't do it. So now we're about damages. If someone, if they kicked in your door if they opened up your safe there's always gonna be damages. So in this particular case with you we didn't have that but in the end, at the end of the prosecution there was a ruling that they should refund the damages and it's important to make sure that there's a bit of a difference if they just kick in the door or if they get a lockpick to do it. So you really shouldn't have to pay for that. So that's the end for us. Maybe you've got a refund for the damages or not. What I can tell you from personal experience is that maybe my own trial is over but I'm still fighting with the fallout. Das ist die Frage, was wir vorhin ausgedacht haben. Was wir jetzt angesprochen haben. Das ist die Frage, was wir uns vorhin ausgedacht haben. Was wir jetzt angesprochen haben. Was wir jetzt angesprochen haben. Das ist das, was wir jetzt dazu verlassen wollen. Wenn ihr den Saal verlässt, bitte seid leiser, damit wir die Q&A noch durchführen können. Danke. Der Signal Angel hat eine Frage aus dem Internet. Ja, nicht nur eine, sondern viel. Ja, nicht nur eine, aber auch viele. Aber starten wir mit den Hiding-Devices. Wollen die Walls in Ordnung, die Devices zu finden, wenn sie für etwas spezifizieren wollen? Ich würde sagen, dass wir nur ein bestimmtes Spiel haben. Aber ich würde sagen, bei dem, was ich schon ... Von dem, was ich gesehen habe, gibt es keine limitierte Kreativität für die Law-Enforcement. Ich habe eigentlich gesehen, dass die Walls in Ordnung sind, um in Räume zu finden, die nicht hinter der Wall sein können. Aber auch, dass es da eigentlich ein Dorf war. Ich habe mit den Leuten von Sachsen-Anhalt gesprochen. Wenn sie die Warnaufgaben... Sie dass nicht mitgebracht sind. Wenn sie die Walls umruden, dann wird sie erwarten. Ich würde die erste Frage an die neue Mikrofon 2 geben. Wie ist das bei Wohngemeinschaft? Wie ist es bei Wohngemeinschaft? Wieso ist das bei Wohngemeinschaft? Wie macht es sich an? Es ist, wie scharf die Beamten sind. der Law & Fosser. Manche haben gesagt, wir werden einfach in den Kommunalraum gehen. Wo die betreffendete Partie oder die betreffendete Partie ist, ist eigentlich Privy 2. Aber manchmal hat sie einfach die Tür geöffnet und sie realisiert, dass es nicht lockt ist. Also, sie argue, dass die Akkusen eigentlich in den Raum gehen können. Also, sie arguing, dass sie einfach etwas in einem anderen Raum, das sie eigentlich nicht sein sollten. Also, sie werden einfach alles suchen. Technisch, sie sollten nur die Räume suchen, dass die Person, die in die Räume geht, und dass sie auch Access haben. Aber ich bin froh, dass die Kurze die Regelung abholt, in welchem Weg es fällt. Danke für die Frage. Ich würde die nächste Frage an das Mikrofon 1 hier vorne geben. Also, erst mal vielen Dank für den... Vielen Dank für die Präsentation. Es war sehr informativ. Danke. Was sieht die Situation aus, wenn du nicht da bist, oder du zeigst, dass du nicht zu Hause bist? Ist das etwas, was du tun solltest? Ich kann dir sagen, dass einer der Leute, der aus unserer Gruppe gesucht war, er war an der Vacation damals, und sie einfach die Tür öffnen und die Flasche fuhren. Und sie haben einen Ort in die Mailbox, dass sie, sie können einfach die Polizisten besuchen und seine Kiste bekommen. Und wenn du sie in die Flasche hide, dann wissen sie, dass sie einfach in die Flasche gehen, und sie in die Flasche fuhren. Danke für die Frage. Ich würde dann die nächste Frage an das Mikrofon 3 da hinten geben. Und bitte nahe ran, damit wir uns... Damit wir das alle hören. Das sollte nahe genug sein. Danke. Ist das close enough to the microphone? You had the question before on one of the slides. If we should ask to enter the rooms and look at the confiscation going on. Can they disallow me from entering my rooms? They can't really prohibit you, because you have a right to be there during the searching, unless they have reason to suspect that you're gonna prevent or preclude them from the search, like throwing things out the window, for example. You're gonna laugh, but this is actually happening sometimes. Well, then in this case they have the right, or at least they try to just take you into custody and remove you from the scene. So, technically, unless you're being disruptive, you have a right to be there. But it can end up for you in jail, if you don't... So, talking about the matter of entering the apartment and is a foot within the apartment already an allowance of entering the apartment and in how far is silence a yes? Silence usually isn't seen as saying yes. Well, if they put the foot in the door, which basically means that you have to use force to remove them, that's not considered a consent. Consent really has to be obviously evident, like tearing open the door or really opening it wide. This is gonna be seen as conclusive consent, but generally no. So, if the measure is seen as illegal after it happened and then the police officer in die Räume wollte, has entered the rooms, he's done some form of theft. No, simple as that. Dann machen wir weiter mit Mikrofon Nummer 2 hier vorne. So, next question. There's rarely some expert following along with these investigations. What if they're looking for a Wi-Fi access point, for example, and then they take the smoke detector instead? If, for example, it says in the court document that all network devices need to be brought along, in how far can you use your expertise to tell them that the smoke detector is a smoke detector? Well, I would tell you, you as the accused party, if they wanna take your access point and they're actually pulling at your smoke detector, I would definitely tell you, you really shouldn't actually help them, so maybe just say nothing in this case, because it's in your advantage. I'm afraid at the very latest deal, the Landeskriminalat, the state's prosecution agency will realize that this is a smoke detector and they're gonna come back, to tell them that while they're searching your home. They're probably gonna give the smoke detector back, pretty voluntarily, I'm pretty sure. Another question from the Internet. So, if the police is looking for the logs from the Wi-Fi access point, am I allowed to delete the logs or change my log policy spontaneously if there's no court decision yet? This is really up to you how you're gonna react to this. You first have to appreciate if those logs are something that's gonna be used against you and the police is gonna tell you if there's something you wanna have. First of all, preliminarily, we would assume that they're probably interesting for the case. There is a chance that they're gonna tell that you destroyed evidence. So this could get you in trouble. Yeah, I can't ask you if this is answered. So, a question about the door. So I don't let the Jehovas' Witnesses enter or anyone else. And if it's six o'clock in the morning, I'm laying in bed and I normally wouldn't open the door for anyone. So I can also just keep staying in bed and at some point they will open the door, right? There are situations, for example, if you're part of a group that the law enforcement considers to be very dangerous and they have the suspicion that you're at home when they ring the door and that you're gonna use this for destroying evidence, then in this case, they're going to be very rude about entering your house and waking you up. This is basically within their right and their own estimation, if this is necessary or not. So sometimes they actually just ram open the door with a big hammer. So in my own flat they said that there is a risk of us destroying evidence. So there is an emergency off for all of the computers in the flat and that would turn off all the computers and basically everything is then locked and sealed and encrypted. We had to talk to the law enforcement in order to convince them that we're not gonna do this and that we're not gonna destroy. Just back off a little bit. Wie sieht das aus? What about company phones or company devices? Are they allowed to take them along? If the quarter they have allows them to take any computer device or any sort of device that is at your home, then you're gonna take it, yeah, sure. Okay, dann hat der Signal Angel noch eine Frage aus dem Internet. So if the officers come along with the argument that it is necessary, how can I move against just the show language? In just the show language this actually means they don't have a quarter to do it because no prosecutor is gonna do this. This is relatively rare because at any given work day and on the weekend there's always a judge who's on call for doing this. So they can actually get the permission on phone and this is very, very rare. For example, you need something like a robbery and the accused party is running into a flat and then they're gonna open it to search it. And if there's some other situation with it basically just trying to shoehorn it into it, this is really easy to get this sort of quarter and that's why they're never gonna use that. So in this case a number of in most people have broken the law in the investigation. Is there some form of consequences? Well, there are certain laws against prosecutorial misconduct. If I actually were to sign a court order that is obviously unlawful then there is a chance that you could try to accuse them of that but honestly that's a very, very rare case. For example, this particular thing that we just read to you that there won't be any consequences to that action. In the worst case getting a new job somewhere else, but that's about as much as it goes for consequences. I also made the mistake once that I looked at the Wikipedia page for the prosecutors of Augsburg during one of the searches in my home because there are no consequences to any of that at least not in the past. So, my question is we all have our devices and our servers encrypted but sometimes you have to use them and for example a server is running most of the time so like the keys are in the memory what kind of measures does the police actually use to use that against you do they bring along a huge battery to take the server out of the place while running or do they have liquid oxygen to cool them down and how does that work is there any form of protection against some kind of vibration sensors or to see whether someone tries to steal the server or what do we do? In my particular case there was one computer that was turned on in my flat so technically they could have tried to pull some stunt like that on it we just had time to turn it off in my particular case even though the law enforcement actually pressed the key to turn it off so there are cases where they actually try to just take the devices that are running and even already mirror the devices while they are still on and while they are still on but sometimes they actually they take an IT forensics expert along and in this particular case they are just trying to make sure that it doesn't turn off and they are not going to tell you in advance that they are going to come so you can't really protect against that but yeah definitely try to turn off as much as you can dann nochmal das Signal Angel so officers push you to give them your passwords or similar codes or ask you to enter something into devices can, are they allowed to use this data against you then? I was going to say the question is is formulated in a bit of a weird way because are they going to pressure you in the way that they are going to say give us your password or are we going to hurt you we really don't have a law yet that forces you to give up the password yet but you are free from any force to incriminate against yourself so giving up your password is part of that so the question really is where is the point where it ends up in torture or in pressuring from the law enforcement there was this case in the past where the head of police was trying to pressure the guy who took a small child as a hostage in the location of the child that was a bit of an outcry and that was one of the most out there cases and the most cases, most normal cases you will never get into a situation like that we don't think that there is going to be a case where they can pressure you like that you just have to negate them thank you very much for this practical advice so what are the chances do you think that in the next 5-10 years there will be a change in this legislature when it comes to publicly use spaces, can we make it clearer and better for us that we are better protected what do we have to change about the party system and so on I don't think this is going to happen within the next one and a half governments actually I think the barriers are going to get lower because looking at the bills that have been put into the congress migrants and people who think differently those will have their rights curtailed they will be basically pushed out of society and their rights are going to be taken away so if there is going to be a perspective that there is a certain amount of lawfulness and conduct you have to become active you have to demonstrate against police laws against the new bills that come out come active against curtailing the rights of the free press get up against racism get up against marginalization of migrants against discrimination of minorities and make this society a little bit better so the AFD doesn't have the chance to push through these kinds of laws okay thank you this is the end of the talk and we are also saying goodbye this was Nini Pink Dispatcher in Kasten saying goodbye from the talk about okay cut off anyway