 I'm Paulie Carl, and I'm the director, editor of Hallround. I work with one of the curators of the festival, along with colleagues like David Dower, Rob Orchard, May and Wang, and Mark Russell from Under the Radar, who I don't see here now. And I just got out of a stuck elevator for 10 minutes, and it was like scary, stuck, so I feel all... And then I worked on a play called Stuck Elevator, and so now I feel like it's all kind of coming together for me. So I have a deeper dramaturgical sense of the play. Yeah, right? So we are in a day, something of the TNT Fest. We started on Friday. We got up at full speed yesterday, had our first workshop yesterday. The idea of the Next Thing Festival is to feature both the product, but also, more importantly, the process and the conversation, so trying to get a sense of the whole of a conversation around the work. And so this week we're not only presenting shows, as you know, but we're having these workshops where we're featuring artists who are either in the festival or are here part of the New England Foundation for the Arts Conversation of Divide Theatre. And so we've kind of partnered with New England Foundation of the Arts to bring some companies who are in town and have dialogues between companies who are here performing in the festival. So yesterday's conversation was, I just thought, terrific between the two companies to see how they work differently. And we were the points of overlap. And so we'll have that same opportunity today. And so we're going to start off with the New York City players. And I have a little bit of an intro because Richard Maxwell is not here, so I'm just going to say the intro. And we are lucky to have with us, where did you guys go? There we go. Jay Smith. And then we have Christina Maschiotti, the playwright, and Linda Mancini. So the two actors for the performance in the playwright. And then they're general managers here too, oh, hey, again, yes. And the New York City players is an experimental theater company based in New York. Until Vision Disturbance first happened in 2010, the company produced plays written and directed by Richard Maxwell and had established a repertoire of work that was associated with him. Vision Disturbance was the first time that Maxwell had worked with the living early career playwright, Christina. This collaboration was successful in a number of ways and began to establish NYCP as a company, not just associated with one artist, but a community of artists that support the work of experimental writer-directors with a distinct voice. The company's experience with Vision Disturbance has led to the creation of a new program called American Playwrights Division. This is a residency program curated by Maxwell, offered to one early career playwright who directs her own work per year. And then, because Richard couldn't be here, he wanted to send a thought, so I'm going to read that thought. I think the main reason Christina and I worked so well together is that we are both writers. Christina cares about being incredibly accurate about what the characters say and representing what she hears. I also write like that. And I think if this piece was overtly lyrical or drew attention to the poetry, then it wouldn't have worked as well because we both care about accuracy and specificity and because I am used to editing as I direct, we were able to edit the play together. So we're going to do pretty much what we did yesterday for those of you who are here. We're going to have 40 or so minutes from the New York City Players. Then we're going to work with the LA Poverty Department is going to do, LEPD is going to do their thing. And then we'll leave 20 minutes or so for questions from the group. So take it away. Thanks, that was so nice. Thank you. You have no idea. I'm Linda. This is Jay and Christina, our playwright. And I think we'll start with getting everybody up if that's okay. Onto the stage. If you think your shoes will scuff up the floor and it will ask you to take them off, but if you don't think so, it'll be fine. Let's just get into a circle. Some white. Come on, come on, come on. And we'll try and just do it, even if we can. We'll just start off with what we call an awareness exercise, if you may know it or may not. We're going to go through the alphabet. We're going to start with A. One person will say A, and another one person will say B. And another one person will say T. And if more than one people say the same letter, we'll start over again. Okay? So let's see if you can come a little closer to me to tell people of their number. So I will start. A. B. C. Okay, let's go back. Anyone can start. A. B. A. J. O. P. S. V. W. X. This is just, you know, it's really, that was great. Great listening. It's really, you know, it's more of a complete body listening, you know, than an audio thing. And that was wonderful. We really do that a lot with the work that we do. So everybody can sit down and we're just going to, we're going to, no, I mean, you can actually, yeah, why don't we go sit that way? I mean, you can sit on the floor or in the seat, but let's just keep this center area a little open without any seating, okay, if you will, thanks. Yeah, you're sitting the right way. Hi, DJ. Just use your room side here. You'll see why in a minute. We're going to have a piece of paper, paper. Kristina has it, Linda. Okay, so this is a very simple exercise. I'm going to give, I'm going to give you an example. I'm going to show you the exercise. Well, I'll show you, I'll show you the movements. Okay, there's, there's, I think six movements. First thing I'm going to ask you to do, I'm going to leave this here, let's see if that works. So, first thing you do, I'm going to ask you to come up one by one. Okay, we'll be able to go through everyone, I don't think, because we'd like to do a few different things, so a little sampling, but first thing we'll be to lie down. Probably the closest to the wall you can, okay? Second thing is to stand. Third thing is to take three steps. Fourth is to pick up the piece of paper. Fifth is to throw it. Okay, and you're not, we're pretty close here to people, so it's not the intention not to throw at any particular person. You know, so that's why, maybe, what's your name? Oh, Leslie. Leslie, why don't you sit over there just so you don't get hit, okay? Oh, okay. And maybe, yeah, thanks, we'll just move over. You throw it at me. I threw it at you, well, I didn't actually. I threw it in that direction. So, let's just start with that. Can we have one volunteer? I'll go through it again, lie down, stand up, three steps, pick up the paper, throw it. Okay? Yeah, I think it might be better because you're so tall. Just keep trying to go over. Right there. Right here? Yeah, and I'll move this up for you. If you were given a choice to categorize this as happy or sad, what would you choose? Happy? Any other? Based on how you did it, what you did. I would pick a bad one. You'd pick a bad one. I think I would pick a bad one. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah? Why? Now, we're not judging. Okay, we're just seeing what the movements are saying to you. All right? There's a time. Whatever. Okay, but that's not, is that happy or sad? That's the question, happy or sad. You said tempo. Tempo. Okay. Anyone else happy or sad? I think that's the same, tempo. Uh-huh. Any of the happy people have anything to say? Uh-huh. Okay. And the fact that he sort of flurged the movement into that, it wasn't like, when you did it, it was very specific, like stand up, then pre-step, then talk, whereas it went up to sort of flurge, so it felt like there was a movement through it. Okay. All right, can we ask you to do it again? Yeah, sure. Lie down, stand up, three steps, throw. Should I have a really big mama face? It just, all we're asking you to do is lie down, stand up, take a step. Sure. Okay, yeah. Handle, hit the wall. That's good. And if you think that would that be ever too close, shall we move it forward further? It's fine, no. Okay, good. Happy or sad? Sad, sad, sad. It's just to the new, like if you go new, there's a spectrum for like, from neutral, just for me, like to the sad. Like to the sad. Okay. All right, anyone else? Happy? I was happy. That seems out and out. Okay. That's supposed to down. All right. Anyone else? There's kind of a slowness and a sluggishness to the way he moved, which is what I was and said. Okay. Great, thank you very much. Thank you. What'd you make? Thank you, Josh. Josh, thanks Josh. Okay, can we have someone else? I'll stand three steps and throw. Right? What's your name? Noelle. Noelle. Relaxed or nervous? Okay, relaxed. Anybody, why? I thought her steps had more of a glide to them than a stopping starting. The glide felt relaxed. Any nervous people? I think the steps were short and that's why they were nervous. Uh-huh. That's the difference. Adjusting of clothing makes it sense nervousness. Uh-huh. Was there adjusting of clothing during? At the end. Oh, at the end. Right, I didn't see that, great. Yeah. Do you want to go one more time? Relaxed or nervous? Relaxed. No, it was a disagreement. Relaxed people, anything you want to say? Probably when she threw it, her eyes kind of followed his movements. Uh-huh. Releasing the neck a little bit. The steps were very nervous. Uh-huh. Okay. I read them as constant. Relaxed or nervous? I know, but I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say. Uh-huh, okay, I know how I'm teething. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Someone else? Relaxed. What's your name? Anna. Hi, Anna. Same thing? Yeah, same thing. We're simple. We're simple clothing. Lie down, stand three steps. Hello. Then or suburban? Urban. Urban. Urban. Urban. Urban people, anything to say? The challenge. Uh-huh. No nonsense, this is all. And that's urban? Okay. Suburban, any suburban people? I'd say suburban, I know. I'm kind of underhand. Abulab. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That's a suburban quality. Uh-huh. That's an urban crowd. You want to try to feel cheerful which seemed urban? Urban is the urban. Urban. Urban. Urban. Urban. The dismissiveness for me felt urban. Yeah. I agree. I think the sense that nothing could harm her on the path of getting up to the idyllic row on the paper, you know, there could have been a tire swinging in the background. I haven't seen this in years that much. The idyllic row. That's suburban. Yeah, I don't, not to read too much into it, but that's what we're doing. So the kind of end, like Noelle was saying, the dismissiveness seemed almost like a slap in the face of authority, sort of. It wasn't like a regular old baseball, it was kind of a, you go get it. I don't know. There's something. Yeah. The authority was a strange thing. To communicate, kind of after nothing, you know, what we're looking for is what we saw here. No consensus. That's what we're looking for. So we're going to keep going. Okay. Another volunteer? Yeah. Yeah, we didn't meet earlier. Hi. Business or casual? Why? She turned her back on a casual. But I think that the awkwardness of the way that she had to turn felt very business. Like there was something about the way that it was like it didn't feel casual. It didn't feel casual at all. It felt like it was like, like a, like a awareness of what you were doing. It felt business. Okay. Can we have another volunteer? How, how are we doing? Good. Okay. You want to do one more? Yeah. No, you've got like a solid 15. You mean last, right? Last. Okay. Yeah. All right. Let's, let's do one more before we go on. Good. This is the casual. Casual. Business. Casual. Casual. Why? Casual. Why? The pros. Yeah. The pros. Expression. Business. She was just all about getting it done. Getting it done. Okay. So this, thank you so much. Thank you. So we do a lot of this when we're starting a new project just to get ourselves a little bit. How many of you saw the show last night? Oh, great. So, so we're trying to get to that point where it's a very difficult thing where we're not imposing one particular tone onto the audience. So what we work on a lot is to be aware of who is with us and be with an audience. So we have a lot of contact, you know, we always contact with the audience and we're making sure in what we do or what we're told to say that we create an open enough environment where an audience can interpret what it is that we're saying for their own, for themselves. And it's a really hard thing to do because we're human, right? And we have, we have a whole social vernacular even like physical that we're very used to and that we take for granted. And what you did here was really noticed a lot of things. You noticed movements, very small movements and tones and that's something that the audience sees. So that's that. Thank you for that. We could go on, but we're going to move on to one other exercise just because we have you for a short period of time. Christina? So this other exercise, we're going to ask volunteers to take two minutes, stand up here and do whatever you want for those two minutes. You can be speaking, not speaking, but it's just the limited two minutes. Do you have a camera? I have. I have a camera. Do you have a camera? A long time. So we're going to do a few of these back to back. But why do you think we might do this exercise? Is there anything that you thought could be useful about something like this? Now we're being present. In the audience and on stage or just when you're in front of people? At both. Anyone who did it, did it? Two minutes is an awful long time. It seems shorter if you don't experience it. Yeah. It's kind of a perfect amount of time to maybe you have something in mind that you might do and then you've done it and then you still have all the time to do it. When did it, what were moments that were interesting from what you saw? When this person next to me was just standing and I'm looking out at the audience. He just seemed to be totally there. When he was up there there was this sense of anticipation. I liked the moment when you found that the wall moved. It felt real. The moment when the girl found that the wall moved, it felt really authentic. It was a real reaction. I enjoyed it. It was interesting how some people seemed to totally embrace I am doing this in front of an audience and you let that really, you were doing and people tried to pretend they weren't there but you could tell they were still aware and some people seemed to be much better at just I am here and I don't care what you guys are doing. It was interesting to see those different levels of different people. I was going to say I enjoyed the moment when she took, I was standing over here and took in the whole space. I suddenly was aware of the entire space. I enjoyed the moment of despair that we saw a couple of times when people realized that what they had gone up there to do wasn't going to sustain them. I was just like, and it kept happening and I really enjoyed that moment. All of a sudden I was like, oh, okay. Right. Using the space, even just from the beginning, I didn't notice the whole theater behind until one person was there and then the first person was standing and then I got this depth of field and use of space going behind. The space is so well defined that it almost makes anything interesting and you find yourself, the real drama I find myself watching is how are people going to respond to this fairly simple demand and what does it tell us about who they are and their personalities. I found myself imposing my own sort of dramatic narrative on just basically the assignment and how people responded to it. From being inside of it, I would have done less. What? From being inside of it, I would have done less. Yeah, I've seen it so many times and with a lot of professional action, I've seen them get out and like walk on their hands and feel the pressure to perform and the tension between what you want to do, what you think they want to see. So, uh-huh. Just at one moment, the girl who was doing all the exercises, at the moment she was standing next to the wall, half behind it, and she completely disappeared in the space. She was very quiet and I didn't even know she was there anymore for a few seconds and I thought that was really interesting. I think our time's up. This is great. Thank you. You're revealing about the show last night. Do you know me? They'll be around for questions after this. They'll be around for questions. Yeah, yeah, you bet, you bet. And so, next up, my friend from the top of the department, and it's John Malpy, and I know I'm going to say it kind of wrong, but close audience for hours. Close enough, yeah. And so, you guys are, you know, 40, 45 minutes or whatever. We're going to have a 15-second consult. Why are we killing each other? She's a very young girl. Can I have your phone? Okay, so, um, so, uh, you know, Los Angeles Poverty Department is a deal based in Hawaii. Mainly we work with people living in a neighborhood known as Skid Row, which is, uh, you know, a very special neighborhood. It's the one place where you can actually run into people on the street because no one has a car. And, um, so it's a poorest neighborhood in Los Angeles. I bet it has a real vibrancy of its own. And, um, uh, consequently, I don't know, it struck, even though I've done many workshops like this in my lifetime, you know, it seemed really weird this notion of doing a workshop with people who I don't know, you know, don't have a clue about for, you know, 45 minutes, you know. And then it seemed like this whole workshop form is like a really weird thing, you know, because you can tell people to do stuff and then just do it. It's kind of weird enough, you know. So, um, nevertheless, giving into that, and they'll tell you what to do and you're going to do it. So I think we need everybody who is willing has to stand up and we're going to, you know, all use the space. And, um, because there's so many people I didn't choose just to move to the empty space. But since we're all doing that together, you know, the empty space isn't going to, you're moving to the empty space isn't going to be there by the time you're done working together. So you're continually re-interesting. So the fastest is better for women. Yeah, and these empty ones, it's actually equally. So everybody at the outside, we're just following the same section equally. The same section equally. But keep moving. If you feel like you've got it back to your adjustments, you know, with your eyes closed, you know, you're just going to breathe, just depending on what you're doing. So we're just letting you breathe and use it as a way to check the amount of, you know, when you've got the interval you're just checking in on what's going on. When you breathe out, just make a sound. You don't have to do anything for us. This is part of what's going on in your body. You just have to go out of your body. It's going to be out in the center of your body. So with your eyes closed, you're going to create all this commemoration behind me on there. Need some comfort. You just want to breathe. So there might have been a lot to do while walking, but now you can take another minute or two to comfort this baby that is somehow another incarnation of you. So take a minute to really, you know, be with yourself in this sense and really let that enter your body. So you can tell it's happened. We're going to go, keeping that going, let's just continue to keep that going, but half the people go around that side of the room and half the people over here. So then one at a time we just get people, one person here go across to here, one person then the next to someone over here goes across so that everyone goes across. And you're going across with this, you might as well just maintain the sense of being whatever's going on in the room. Let's just do that one person at a time. We don't have to do it. Morgan's doing it with the baby, that's cool. We can let go of the baby and just walk. Don't drop the baby. Over here you're just walking by yourself. So what was an external thing is now just you. Keep going and you're walking. Now you can change a little bit. You're walking on the top of your game. The absolute top of your game. The top of your game. Keep going. Yeah, you're on the top of your game still. But a little concern about something or another is creeping in. A little concern about something or another is creeping in. You have just something like weird little irritations that are being under control. Smallest for me. That concern is actually getting a little bit bigger, but you don't want to show it. So you're on the top of your game but this concern is getting a little bit bigger. Start out like a pee. That was like a ping pong ball. Start out like a pee. It was like a ping pong ball. Keep going. You're on the top of your game. You don't want to show it. Your head is as big as a basketball. You're not showing it, but you are like as big as a basketball. You can't think straight. 500 pounds, your head is pounding. So now keep going with it. Now with it, the basketball has popped. Without making a big deal out of it, you're just not trying to hide it behind your being on top of your game anymore. You're just not on top of your game. Sorry. Just keep going. Keep going with that. Shifting gears. Just keep going without shifting gears. Just be with that. And gradually you're going to go from being out of control showing it or whatever to running back or being protected like you were in the beginning. But in real time, not by coercing. So again, you're not just jumping. In a minute we're going to form two circles. I guess one on that side of the wall and one on this side of the wall because it's going to come back and she's going to be on one side of the wall with somebody. But what we're going to do, we're going to do a circle and we're going to do something where two people are going to be talking at the same time. It's not a dialogue. It's as if you're just talking in front of the person next to you. So the one thing you want to do is balance your voices in some sense. But it's not about having a conversation. It's like two monologues happening simultaneously. And the subject is like anything that's happening in the last 20 minutes. So you're talking to the person next year or something at a certain point on the one side of the wall, me on the other side of the wall saying, okay, you're out, you're in. Sometimes that's brutal because it's like just when you have everything else to say, that's really interesting that you say some more stuff. So that's what we're going to do. So half the people over there, I guess this group over here. So Nick, why are you two starting around this way? So again, you're not looking at one another. You're just talking generally. It's like you're driving, your relationship to the other person is, you're driving the car down the street. The other person is the squirrel that runs in front of your car. You're like all through what you're doing to incorporate the squirrels not getting run over and then you keep going. Peach? No, the situation is you're talking about your experience in the last 20 minutes. Anything about that? And you're both just talking about it to everyone. But the other person's role is to be the unexpected thing that maybe influences what you're doing. But don't worry about it too much. I'm just speaking with a gaudy space. I feel all of this. I think that was a good idea. I was thinking about what it is like to work here. I hope that it's very weird and it's very... I was kind of wondering I was trying to walk and imagine what that person was trying to think of being on top of your game and not thinking, Oh God, I'm truly concentrating there. I had something to do with it. Okay, that's the tribute I really felt about. And I was thinking about, you know, when you have an audition, you don't really feel about it. Especially like, oh yeah, you know you have a really good audition and you're not going to get it anyways. That's what I thought. This person was really nice. That was actually really nice. Congratulations personally. Clearly, was that in there? Totally. Okay, we're up. Let's hear some of Juko. I'm very hard actually to be working with. I'm feeling totally far away. It's very motivating to be talking about absolutely nothing in front of people. I don't feel good even if it's, you know, my name and such a whole lot. She knows my name and I'm not even listening to what she's saying. So it doesn't really matter. It's fine. It's fine. I was in there a little bit just now. But so I got that. So I'm going to jump the way out. Thank you. Thank you. So I was thinking about the last thing I did with New York City players. And when you have to go up here and do something, I was like, oh, what could I do? That'd be really interesting. And I was like, how's that feeling when you're sitting there in that whole time? It was like, what am I going to do if I go up there? And sometimes you're like, oh, I should probably be watching the person up there instead of thinking about what I want to do. No, I have my idea. But I should have done it. I was in it. He said that I could talk. So I was like, I'm going to go up and call my grandma. So I was going to go up here and pick up my phone and call my grandma. There's a conversation with her. And I think you're like, what a better way to spend this workshop than having too many conversations with my grandma. And also two minutes of phone. I feel like go by a lot faster. Continue to talk for a little while. I should just go in louder and faster. So just keep my little quiet. So apparently I was going to talk to you softly right now. So when we were running around the space, I was thinking, I don't know, almost mathematically about it. There was a distance. There was a physical distance between all of us. And yet there was a distance that had to be covered by our bodies, which were being blocked by the chairs and the aisles. So truly understand who you are as a person. You had to go out and around and work up. Then I could go over the back of the chairs. Then the dimensions of the space changed at that point. Because instead of everything having to be out and up and back, now I could move up and down. You can only find that space when you are that tired. At that point, then the SSI changed. Everything else doesn't really matter. We're almost like heating up because we're together. We're bouncing off each other. Physically with life, what are you doing? How do you know yourself? Physically challenge yourself. There's more pressure. Not like a pressure for more, but just like, we're sort of interacting every second. Instead of interacting every 20 seconds or 5 seconds. Nobody wants it anymore. Nobody wants that. I wondered if you were just going to depress down into this little space. Then it was kind of funny because when you closed your eyes, I sort of, I didn't... So why should we do that? I thought, are we now going to be running around the space with our eyes closed? No, I think about it as a real meeting. Is that why we wouldn't understand each other? So we can understand each other? We should understand ourselves first with Korean. We should understand each other first. I think that if you would exercise once in a while, I was looking at the three of us, and it seemed that we might have... We would, we would. East Europeans said... Yeah, we could be. I think we all know each other. Yeah, we could all be relatives. This guy sounds like a repose. It's kind of weird. I think somebody has stolen my top. Yeah, Eastern Europeans, they... So, Shindong... Okay, next person. We could all mail. We'll ask 20 minutes of the day if you're still here. And then we'll figure out the whole thing. Yeah, we'll just... I wonder where I'm going to stop. I'm running around. I'm waiting for you guys to roll here. And it feels like I've lost the attention. I wonder if I can figure it out. Yeah, and then there's pretty much a challenge getting into the entire interspaces. It's something to make us the best in Eastern Europe to do that. I think it's very interesting. You know, it's all right, and then all of a sudden we have to come to a stop and stand there and it was just a kind of... Talk about each other's origins. I don't think that's that interesting. And I'm getting a little more of a back of the attention now. Yeah. Next person. Next person. Enjoy the running around a little room. Yeah, it's not crazy. And it's just kind of nice. Just sort of walking. Just sort of walking. And it's been sort of relaxed. And I don't think we can do a decompression of that. Being able to kind of cast my game in the bottom of the game. Being able to be a good, really simple energy for me. And then just being in this space right now. It's been pretty a challenge to talk about the same time as somebody else right next to you. Having a hard time. So I felt like, wow, I'm excited. I love working today. And I'm going to come here and spend time with people like that and have some fun. And so now, I'm going to talk. I'm not really that great at this type of thing. Okay. I prefer the exercises when we don't speak. I really like this exercise. I can lay it down and stood up. I follow directions really well because that's what I was, you know, that's the generation I'm from. I'm supposed to be talking. And then, so it's really fun to do this sort of thing. I really can't say anything right now. And I feel really... Yeah, you're walking back and forth. You're walking back and forth. You're walking back and forth. You're walking back and forth. You're feeling the different feelings of whether your head is big or small or you've got your game or you don't have your game. And I think about those things when I'm walking down the street, really. So you have to see somebody who has a really cool walk. They're like, wow, I want to walk like that. So then you try it and say, wow, that's probably my life. They like to try out different walks. You're out here. Really? Okay. You're good to me. You're good to me. I am. Yeah, I do it. You're good to me. Cut it sucks to be on deck. You're really good to me when you talk. You're inviting me to change. You should go if you have to. I'm not going to go, but I don't think I'm going to say there much more. I think I'm not going to speak to you. I don't necessarily want you to talk to me. I really want to say, attention, I'm sorry. Not sorry. Not sorry. You don't want me to pay attention? No. Yes or no? No. No. Okay. I'm just talking to you. Okay. You got me. I'm on this floor. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. That's fine. I'll take a picture. Okay. Thank you. Let's go. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Okay. You're welcome. Thank you. I'm going to go. You can do it. Here. Are you with me or you are with me? I do it all the time. I've just been myself, but for some reason I'm trying to be myself, it's the hardest thing to be, and that's really... Well, I was just thinking, well, if the wall was out there, it's really nice, sort of... Some reason it's a hard town, not how you have it. Got to know that it's not, I think this is crap. I think you talk to them for this long crap, I can't enjoy this, but I do. So, coming back up here, and then... Something self-indulgent about it, I feel guilty, judging, oh, I don't know. Sorry, I'm not sorry. I am sorry. Well, I don't know. I feel like after I've done really good crime in Africa, how I feel after I've actually kicked some teenage black belt. So, I really wanted to feel... See if I could feel that feeling, and then transition into my migrant. So, you know, this morning was really intellectual, this afternoon being really physical. It is a fascinating combination for me, and just trying to figure out... There actually was an interrupt in the middle of my day that was actually really critical, and so almost pulled me out of the meeting. And so, to be here and be able to move and sort of work to move some of that was really cool for me. And how much I actually know... Just a little interaction. I came into this exercise... And now what I'm wishing I did during the activity where we came out, and we did enough, and we could do anything to it. I wish I'd come out and just looked at people. Just listening to her talk before it was my turn. And kind of listening to everyone else talk. Everyone was very interesting. She was very interesting. So, what does that mean? And I wish I could come out and just say zero people, because I would be interested to know a little bit more about the people who are also in this workshop. You know, I can see my music writing class right now, and I get a very convincing lie as to why I'm not there right now, and it's not valuable communication at all. I can't stand that class so much more engaging. At this point... And I just came to know... Oh. At this point, too, I would say, I would, you know, wait a minute, let me hear this. Looking at the floor. And so, you know, whether or not I still want to be moving, and stay comfortable. So, I'll just stay Twitter top. It's really kind of crazy that I'm still standing here. Tell me. Okay. So, I just have to go out and go to the auditorium earlier, because I'm not sure if I'm going to have to tell my teachers. But we had a delicious lunch before, but I would say like, there'd be a real good thing about the people at this point. So, I chose to actually... So, what is this? Interesting one. It was that people all tried to solve the solution on their own. It was like so deep, so fast. Everybody was all trying to do it. I don't know how they felt. They weren't made up to solve the problem. I'm not that fascinated. Another thing I noticed is that I feel watching was, you know, when do you project yourself into space? When do you project yourself into space? I've been watching when you actually watch a movie, because I'm more pleasant to watch it, because you're more fashionable to watch. But the thing is that I don't really like to look into space as a lot of times. I really like a look at people's backs. The person who's back in space is more interesting to me than I'm in manufactured or elevated face. I always think that there are times when the process is more complicated and there are times it's more complicated than it is. I've had a full portion of people at the time too long that I didn't want to do all of them. But I did quite enjoy the walking exercise. It felt very depressing. One of the things that I noticed and from the latest really especially, I kept wanting something to be in the first sweet spot in the space that would be under the lights. I can imagine how it would feel in the market. That would feel really good. And then I started thinking about how people could really sometimes feel really amazing. So I thought it would be easier in general. Sometimes for me it would be interesting to watch at any time of the day. When people are listening to a space, not just a meeting or anything. So I think it would be interesting. This is an interesting and sensual thing that I can imagine might be more like it doesn't. But I'm not entirely sure about my management because they're more than that. I think there's a portion too. And they're sort of mathematically pure places in the space. But it's really interesting that you're in sort of a suit and you're in different ways. So those moments in your sheets, not the first one, not in the space, not a lot of the space. There are moments that it's just that you want to take a still of it. But other times it's really a film that's not a still. Let's go. I'll go over there. There you're putting in. Yeah. And start to find that. Oh, we're getting closer by the minute. Oh yeah, we're good. We have almost... So... And then Linda and Jay, do you want to come up too? Do you want me to accommodate you if you're good? I forgot to say we were live streaming this. As we live stream... Oh no. Oops, that was a major forget. Sorry about that, people. Same as on the elevator. Yes, yes. So we do that so... To be aware that many people cannot join us, they cannot be involved in, and we like the work that we do to be as accessible and transparent as possible. So we live stream, we tweet out when we can, we just try to make it so that... For events like this, as many people can participate. So I just want to do kind of a brief question and answer at a great moment of, I don't know, Sympodico with Christina when she said when people come in and start asking to do after exercises, I would like to leave the room immediately and I felt deep, deep warmth for that. So... That's what I thought when I was asked to do this workshop. I know, right? Yes, exactly. That's what I mean. So here we all are stretching ourselves beyond what we normally do. So anyway, I just wanted to... I'll start it off with a question for you all and then maybe you can... And then I'll just invite other people to ask. You know, I asked a question yesterday and I asked a question about when you feel like as you're working and devising and making theater, when is a piece finished? And then of course I realized I got the response, you know, which is work is never done, which I know. So that I know, it's never done. But when is the moment... I mean, are you driven by when your data performance is to be done or how do you sort of gestate the work or what's your process for sort of going, okay, this can go to an audience now. When is that moment? How do you know that moment? The cool thing about performance is you can't turn it in late. Yes. Any other thoughts? You don't have to have any thoughts. Well, it's a little different, you know, as... I mean, as an actor, when you come into a finished script, well, not completely finished because we did a lot of... there was a lot of editing in the rehearsal period. So it is about the deadline, really, you know, and opening night is just terrifying. But I just worked on one of the other New York City players' piece where Rich had a commission for the Whitney Biennial and we went in there, took over the fourth floor of the Whitney Museum in New York and developed a new piece. And that was really nice for all of us. It was exhausting because it was a huge space and 10,000 people came through during that week. And you know, realize with that, you know, it's exhausting. You know, you just feel it the next day. But that was okay. What was interesting was there was a certain amount of pressure that was off of us, off of all of us, you know, including the writer and director, Rich. At the same time, we were under this, you know, lens where we were being watched constantly. And I recognized the difference there between having to be on my game, I guess, you know, for opening night and being able or being given the privilege. And in fact, it looks like we're going to turn that piece, that's what that piece is going to be. We're just going to keep working on it in museums if we can, you know, around different cities and develop, you know, which just continue to develop. Which is really what happens when we were in rehearsal. The edits Christina made were just so admirable because you see something and it's so well written, in my opinion. And you're learning all the lines and then suddenly she cuts down like two pages. It's like she cut out of, you know, my heart. But it was her work, you know, for her to be able to do that under pressure, I think is just remarkable. So I don't know if I answered your question. Yeah, that was great. That was great. Thank you. Yeah, go ahead, Matthew. Does the writing, is it fluid with your sort of approach? And does the approach that you're sort of sharing, which I know is just a teeny bit, you know, affect the writing. And it's also the writing connected to specific people because you are a company that's working in such a way. Do you know what I mean? Like is there a fluid process between the writing and I can try and be more articulate. I don't know. I think the writing is a little different. There's a lot of feeling, a lot of emotion, a lot of showing in the writing that doesn't come from the actors afterwards. And the idea is it's all in the writing so you don't need to add anything else. So I'm not thinking about holding anything back or any kind of restraint or anything when I'm writing. Does that... It does... Specific people? Yes, but not... Yeah, I do think of... Well, the characters are based on specific real people but then in the back of my mind, since casting is so hard, I am thinking about people that we've worked with before. And does that sort of... Does that affect how you... I'm really curious about how this value system would affect the creation process, this sort of sense about either the emptiness or the vulnerability and the emptiness or the aloneness. Does that enter into when you're alone in writing because there's this... Obviously a dialogue going on. I'm curious about the dialogue. I mean, I think there's still the same... I want the same openness in the writing so that there can still be... Everyone can make of it what they want. Yeah. I don't think it affects the writing in any other way, other than hard. I'm really interested in the relationship between the exercises that you just showed us, which were kind of fascinating and the performance last night, which I love. And I'm interested in how you would characterize... Is the process completely about subtracting? Because clearly you had an accent and other elements that you actually added as well. So I'm curious what the balance is between actually finding active things or character elements that you're putting into the performance versus this idea of essentially taking almost all affect out of the performance and how those actually work in the reversal process. Or what the theoretical intention is. My understanding, and I think it's not as codified as you would think it is, but I have been led to believe that my assignment is to not interpret, to give the text to the audience, to not fake anything, to acknowledge all of the punctuation that's written in the script. And there are a few other things to... All the articles. Everything, we have to do word for word punctuation, punctuation, follow it. We can have an emotional experience, but we can't fake one. Right. I think that sort of goes to what you're asking. We can't have a private conversation because there's a room full of people, so we have to speak loudly enough for everyone to hear. We're not supposed to get locked into patterns. We're not supposed to go zombie. All of this adds up to an impossible task. It's so hard. That's really what you're doing when you're performing is trying to do this and never succeeding. What about characterization? It's just the writing. Well, that... The accent, if it's okay to talk about, was, I think, Christina, it's something Christina wanted and Rich was not too keen on. Right? Yeah, I really had to fight for the accent. Yeah. I mean, the accent is in the writing. It's in some of the spelling of the words. We tried it with actors without any accent at all, and it made no sense when I listened to it. I just couldn't. So I felt like that was sort of stretching, stretching this whole idea of performance to actually have an accent there as well. But beyond that, there weren't many characterization elements that worked on it. Right. Interesting. It sounds a lot like martial arts in a way, I have to say, in a religious way, in a sort of perfecting, being perfectable and boring. It reminds me about Tadashi Suzuki, too. Exactly. It's constantly banging your head against something that you will never be able to achieve. But he tells us that, too. The point is not to get there. You're in the process always, in the process. So it's great because the rehearsals can be very difficult and he can be very hard on us in rehearsals. But in the show, after the show, he always goes, that was great. Because as long as you're there in the moment, no matter what happens, no matter what you mess up, which I think in Rich's mind, you can't mess up. Once you're there, you just see what you've got and go with it. But I have to also say that, I don't know if back-to-back theater has ever been to Boston, but there are theater companies from Australia mostly comprised of Autistic and... I don't know what the term we would use now. I don't know if it's disabled. Anyway, they're mostly Autistic sound down syndrome adults. And I've seen them twice. The last time I saw them was just recently in New York. And I thought, oh, my God. I mean, they can do that so easily, you know, because they have a detachment. So they, first of all, they're brilliant at memorizing pages. You know, no problem. So they can memorize the words and just show up and present them without any work. You know, without it being difficult because they have this behavior, if you will, not acquired innate behavior of having some kind of detachment, for lack of a better word, you know, distance. From whoever they're talking to. So I learned so much when I watched them the second time. That's what he's asking us to do. You know, and we carry a lot more stuff. So the process to get there is very difficult. I mean, we've both performed for many years and Anna Kohler, who's teaching at MIT now in theater here, said to me before I started rehearsals with this show, she said this is going to be the biggest challenge of your career to work with this guy. And she was right. How do you guys, since you are in a very low-income environment, how do you bring education into your work? Is that one of your priorities to educate or not? I guess it would be a better question. I would say one of our priorities is to educate normal-vill. That is you guys, the rest of, you know, about the reality in the schedule. So it's definitely a two-way street. We don't do any educational programs. You know, we work with adults. We do a lot of projects about, like the project we're doing right now is called Biggest Recovery Community Anywhere. I read in the New York Times a couple years ago that Delray Beach was the biggest recovery community anywhere because there are a lot of pricey drug programs there. People go. They get cleaned and sober. They stay in the community. They feel comfortable. They open bookstores, coffee shops. And so there's a sophisticated recovery consciousness in Delray Beach. Well, there's the same sophisticated recovery consciousness in Skid Row because people get cleaned and sober there. They have the most affordable housing in Los Angeles County. They're not going anywhere. I mean, some people do. But they stay there. They get jobs in the community. They start meetings in the community. So even though there are people, you know, in their addiction every day, they're confronted by, you know, 10 people who used to be in their addiction who are still living in the community who are no longer in it anymore. But to get that word out to the rest of Los Angeles when Skid Row is, you know, five blocks from City Hall and, you know, two blocks from where, you know, it's where the next billion-dollar real estate bonanza can happen if we can only get rid of the biggest recovery community. It's hard to get that word out. But that's what we're mainly focusing on. So our education is directed at the general public. Yeah. Henriette, go for it. Wow. Well, they're very different because every project has its own, addresses different issues and every project is really constructed to change the narrative about Skid Row and to get, you know, the information out about what Skid Row really is. So it depends. You know, this project about the biggest recovery community anywhere, we started thinking about the recovery community, but then as people came into the room and we started working, everybody had something to say about it and, you know, LDP is like, almost like a family, even if people are new, there is a very, a very big feeling of safety and we're doing this together. Even if people walk in new, they don't sit on the side, they just jump in like you guys just did when we did the duologues. It's not about whether you are a brilliant performer or whether you are scared to say something, you just say something. And we work with that. People are very supportive in that way. There is a whole culture of doing that. And so actually, people were very, became very personal about their own recovery and of their friends and their history. So this project, we decided really to shape it about these stories because this is the heart of what recovery is about, about spiritual growth and knowing yourself and sharing and giving back to others and how that community is shaped and that's what makes the community all this wisdom of the people there. And so, you know, and so this is very much coming from improvisations and stuff like we were doing now and people grab it, they just go with it. And, you know, it's very intense, the stuff that comes out and we shape it into a performance. Just to show a little difference, we just finished a performance that actually we worked on for ten years, which was really about changing the narrative of the community, showing all the wonderful people that are in this community that have made it a community, walked the talk. And so it has had different phases and different performances about gentrification and all these issues that have been coming up. And the last one and a half years we've really worked on rehearsing this performance. What he does, and it's maybe important to say, is we don't rehearse three months and then bam, there is the project. We make projects a year long, nine months long at least. So, and the projects have very different phases. We work with the whole community. We don't have a rehearsal space. We don't have a theater. We work in different places in the community and different phases of the project happen in different spaces. So the whole community gets involved, culminating in the final performance wherever that is happening. And so, well, make it very short. We honor 36 people in the neighborhood. We interviewed all these people also publicly, so the whole neighborhood could be part of getting to know these people if they didn't already. And out of that we created 36 scenes which we performed on the streets in the places where those people lived or worked or still are working or created organizations. And so we ended up doing three days of parades last Memorial Day weekend with a brass band and the police blocked off the streets. So the whole neighborhood was really ours. We could finally walk in the middle of the street without getting tickets for jaywalking, which is what's happening in Skid Row. It's the only place in Los Angeles where jaywalking tickets are written for people who don't have any money. So that's how it works. If you get your second ticket because you couldn't pay it, they can bring you to jail and that's how they clean up the neighborhood. So, you know, the whole community was part of getting to know the history of the neighborhood, right? So every project has its own process and also has its own form. The project also had a public art element where we had, actually, Mr. Brainwash if you've seen exit through the gift shop, he did 36 portraits of these people and they were originally going to be put on lampposts in front of the spots associated with these people who are activists, artists, people in recovery, people who've lived in the community, people who've worked in the community. So far, in like many public art projects, we ran into a lot of obstacles with politicians who didn't want to see the faces of their adversaries, you know, out of the Catholic worker, for example, and immortalized on the street. And then it was actually funded by the redevelopment agency which after I voted for Jerry Brown and he got elected, he closed that down. So the 50,000 we needed to put them up vaped at that moment. So it's an ongoing, it's an ongoing, the public art process is still an ongoing thing, but yeah, right there, yeah. Workshop of the others that you would like to share with us? Well, it's always great, you know, just as our individual artists, I think whenever we perform in a festival situation where we get to see, you know, companies that we know and actors that we know and companies and actors that we don't know. So I'm, you know, just fascinated with the, and I've heard so much about LAPD and it's been great to be in the same room with them and just to experience, you know, the differences and the similarities. You know, I think ultimately we're all about presenting ourselves, you know, to an audience and having some kind of exchange and we do that all in different ways and that's very exciting. Yeah, I was just, yeah, the same thing and I just really enjoyed doing it. And I was just realizing when you were talking about we just want to get as close to being natural, to being real, that is very much how we work and we work with people who are real. You know, and they, the energy that drives them to perform, it comes from a real place because they want to be part of it or they want to tell the story. And so I think that to me is where we really touch. I thought it was nice to hear you explain about that. I think when I first went to, when I first, because I used to live in New York, you know, and wear black clothing. I never loved black clothing. Skid Row, all night. And when I first got it, when I first ended up in Skid Row, you know, the passion and the urgency and the total lack of irony is so refreshing and compelling and that I got stuck there. Yeah, go ahead. I have two questions. I'm just getting exposed to your work. So I was wondering who are your performers and I was also wondering if you've ever been afraid, especially in the early days of your work at Skid Row? Well, the performers are people who live in the neighborhood. They are. Yeah. And, you know, and Naive Kay is one of the best things that you can have in your universe. And, you know, so... And look. So, you know, you go, you do things that you, you know, that if you knew better, you wouldn't do or something like that. But actually, you know, at the beginning of LAPD, before I was researching in Skid Row, well, should I go hang out at a bar, you know, and find out, where a little hard-wrapped café was there, right? Should I go hang out there to find out things? Or should I go to a government hearing? I went to a government hearing, ran into the Catholic workers and all these advocates and the homeless people that were, you know, sounding off in front of the county board of supervisors. So that was, you know, that saved me, I would say. And from there, it's really... I really haven't been afraid. Nothing, you know, nothing in the 20... Nothing has ever jumped off, it's been really a terrible incident. And also, that is also because Skid Row, to me, being a foreigner and not being native to L.A. also, but having seen the different neighborhoods, Skid Row is the only place that feels like a neighborhood because people live on the street and people know each other and people look out for each other. I never have to be scared because there's always somebody, you know, who will take care of me, but actually nothing has ever happened that I needed to be scared of. And that's also a special thing about Skid Row. Skid Row is not a gang bang neighborhood. There are no gangs, they're just really poor people who don't have money. And the people that sell the drugs come from outside, you know, to bring in the drugs. So it's a whole different... It's really like a community then. Andrea. And then Lisa and then those will be the last two questions. This is for both of you. What would you say, as your groups individually, is the best use or purpose of the theater? It's general, but... What's the question? Oh, sorry, I was wondering. In their personal opinions as groups, what is the best use or purpose of the theater? I feel we should open Bourbon or something. I don't know. I think it's pretty straightforward. I mean, for me it is. Anyway, I think it's... And I think we probably have that in common too, is to allow an audience to see the world differently. You know, we don't use a lot of expression, which is probably more conventional and something that doesn't require any thinking by an audience. But I think that we're basically saying, why is it normal to talk like this and have these intonations and go up when you ask a question? Why is that normal? How did that happen? And why do we need to take... Why are we taking that for granted? That that's okay. I mean, I'm speaking on a very basic, non-emotional level, but it goes into that too if you get deeper into it. So I think that's what it is. We really do give the audience a responsibility to engage, even though they're not speaking to us, but to take part in what's going on. In other words, to interpret it in the way they see fit and because we're not going to tell them how to interpret what it is that we're doing. We don't feel that that's the right thing to do. What was your question? What would you say, in your opinion, is the best user purpose of the theater? Well, I think two things. One, sort of in agreement, is to confuse the categories. Just to create a lot of confusion, which is great. And then the other thing I would say, which is maybe an answer to that, is to try to locate your theater at a spot where it can have some impact. Am I correct that your play will be published? It will be published. And the follow-up to that, if it is published, then how would you write in how you would like the people who would be doing the show, how they would interpret that show? Is this work that you're doing going to be within that script? Does that make sense? Yeah. No, I wouldn't write that in. You wouldn't? It's already been done by other companies. It has, okay. Okay. Have you seen those performances? No, I have. I've only seen pictures. Do they do it in the same script? I don't think so. Based on the pictures? Yeah. Thank you all. And thank you for your generous time with us this afternoon. We really appreciate it. We're so glad you're here. Thank you very much. It was great. We'll be back here at 3 o'clock tomorrow for a double-edged interview here and the universes. All right. Thank you.