 Welcome to another show of Celebrate Life. My name is Gary DeCarlas and I'm your host for today. The inspiration for this show came after me reading countless obituaries and saying to myself, gosh, I wish I would have gotten to know that person. What an amazing life they led. I'm a true believer that everyone has a story to tell. And so here we are and we're telling wonderful stories about wonderful people. If you have any interest in being on this show, feel free to give me a shout out at my email, which is celebratelife0747 at gmail.com or if you have a question for today's guests, feel free again to give me an email and I'll be glad to get it to Susie, who's our guest today and we'll get to you in answer. I am honored today to have as our guest, Susie Walker. Susie has been a pioneer in the recovery world for those who are in recovery from a substance or alcohol use disorder. Welcome, Susie. Thank you, Gary. It's fun to be here. Thanks for asking me. It's great to have you here and I know you've had quite a week at the culmination of your wonderful career as an executive director of the attorney point of Wyndham County. Oh, glad to have you here. So yes, you're finishing this chunk of your life, this important chunk of your life, but there's a lot that went into your life to get you to this point. So if you would take us back and tell us about that wonderful life that brought you to where you are today. Sure, thank you very much. I guess just started the beginning. I grew up in a dairy farm in central New York and it was a really fun way to grow up to just be able to romp around outdoors and winter times, sledding out behind the farm on these huge hills were just amazing. We used to, the snow would collect and make these little cliffs and we would walk across the cliff to see how far we could walk before we would fall through and just slide all the way up the bottom. That was fun. That's fun. So we played outside a lot and who's the way? These are friends or family? Yeah, my family is my mom and dad and I had one brother and one sister. And so we lived out in the country, obviously. And so we did a lot of things together and some neighbor kids too. But yeah, I enjoyed being on the farm and being outdoors and being around the animals, although I was a little afraid of the bigger ones for some reason. Who would be afraid of a cow? But I was. So yeah, so life was pretty sweet. I loved to play outdoors. I was a voracious reader. My whole family was. And so that's something we shared among ourselves. And when I was little, I liked to play act and write things. And so I was always kind of building things or writing things or making things. And when you had sent me some questions to think about ahead of time and I was thinking I used to love to play detective. And so I would just get my little kit together, which was probably my lunchbox and a little notebook and a pen or whatever. And to just kind of lurk around and watch what people were doing. And I'd go up in the haymow and look down out the window and then watch what was going on, make copious notes about what people were doing for what purpose I don't know. But I read lots of detective books and like to do that. So yeah, so that was a really fun. Did you read Nancy Drew books? I read, yeah, I read all of the whatever was popular at the time and floating around among my friends. Yeah, so yeah, we moved to the farm. We had lived in one house and then we moved to the farm when I was about five. And it was a lot of fun, but it was also kind of a time of turmoil too because I grew up in an alcoholic household and that's how I found my way. Eventually I called myself an accidental non-profit director because I just sort of, I try to be open to what life presents to me and that's just kind of how it unfolded over time. But a lot of the time that I did spend reading and playing and inventing things was my way of creating a world that was a little, that made a little more sense to me, I guess, than some of what was going on with the grownups. Sure, a little sanctuary in the midst of all that. Yeah. Yeah. It was a loving home, but a little chaotic. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. And we had farm hands that lived with us for a while. And so once they didn't do that anymore, things got a little more whatever normal is. So yeah, so that's why I read a lot and learned to sew and build things and write things. So that's always kind of part of me as I'm trying to take all these things that I see around me and make something fun or beautiful or useful out of them. You have a creative streak in you, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so I grew up and I, let's see. Yeah, we lived on a farm where we had a big old yard and so we would be the host for like reunions and barbecues and things like that. So my dad loved to play host. And so there was always a lot of, yeah, a lot of activity around that was really fun. But what I got to see over time was that the celebrating got to be a little too much. And I started to see, as a child, I started to see that the people I knew and loved were becoming strangers in front of me throughout the course of the day. And so that scared me and I started to retreat in different ways. And then over time, I did see the impact of alcohol long before I found this different career in that friends started to fall away and the vibe was a little bit different. And what I started to do, and I don't know, maybe 12 or 13, I heard the word alcoholic for the first time applied to my dad and it terrified me. And I didn't know really what it meant, but in lots of little ways, I started running away from home. And what that meant for me is I got super involved in things at school. I became a little overachiever. I joined a 4-H group and my leader there was like a second mom to me. And yeah, so I just joined activities at school and I just kind of did that kind of thing. I was an exchange student in my junior year, I guess. And then when it came time to go to college, I left New York state. It was like, I've been bolted. I just bolted for Texas. And that was kind of the culmination of me running away in all kinds of little ways is that I just said, I am out of here. You people don't know what you're doing and I'm in charge of me now. Thank you very much. Listening to that progression from that little girl who created that little sanctuary in the house to the pre-teen teenager who really got involved in high school as a way to separate and then going to college, which is the big transition. Yeah, I remember going to the airport and I was just so excited and I was walking down to get on the plane and I turned around to wave at my mom and she was just sobbing her little heart out. And I'm like, I just was like, aren't you excited for me? I don't know what I'm saying, but yeah. And I fell in love with Texas. I just absolutely fell in love with it, primarily because I'm not a fan of old Van Winter. So my first Thanksgiving there, it was 87 degrees and people were sunbathing between the dorms and I'm like, I have a reply. You're home. I am home. So I lived there for a long time after college. Okay. Who were some of your early, when you think back, some of those early people in your life that you looked up to that were inspiration for you? I remember having a couple of very special teachers. My mom said my fourth grade teacher really lit a fire under me in one way or another and got me a little more involved in doing more outgoing kind of things, I guess. And my 4-H leader truly, when I was a young teen, I started to see that my mom had her hands full with a wonderful man who was kind and generous and talented and all kinds of good things that he just didn't believe about himself. And so that's when we started to realize that, oh, this is more than partying. There's something more going on here. And she had her hands full and my 4-H leader ended up being like a second mom to me. And I would spend lots of time at their house. Her daughter became my best friend and we would spend time at each other's homes. And what I noticed was that when I was in their home with her brothers, it was companionable and fun without an undercurrent. And so, yeah, so her name was Joy. And she, for years until she passed away just a couple of years ago was just always very special to me. And her daughter Andrea and I have been friends for decades, literally. That's wonderful. I loved when I find people that I love, I keep them around. So I've still got, yeah, grade school friends and high school and college. So she was, and both of my grandmothers, actually, I realized at some point that I was quite lucky that I grew up knowing all of my grandparents and we spent Sundays together and visited and all that. And I knew several of my great-grandparents too. And yeah, this is Georgie. She's the heart of everything. Of course. So both of my grandmothers, they taught me how to sew and they were very wise women who just shared a lot with me. And I think it's funny that I had like one proper grandma and one naughty grandma. And proper grandma, proper grandma really was, oh my gosh, she was a beautiful woman and was always so put together. And when we stayed the night at her house we had a schedule. There was a time we went to bed and we had a snack at a predetermined time. She made breakfast before we went to bed and she had a regimen. And when I stayed with my other grandmother, we drank soda and ate pizza and cheetos and watched Johnny Carson and musicals and westerns until the wee hours of the morning. It was so decadent. And it was amazing, because I needed both, right? Yeah, yeah. There were times when being with proper grandma was very comforting and there was a scene and it felt safe. And then we got to go just kind of play with my grandma walker. So yeah, I think my family, my grandpa too, was a very strong influence on me. He was a very wise and gentle man and he was an avid reader. And I remember when I got to be 13 or 14 maybe, he would just share the books that he was reading with me. So we kind of had books that went around and I remember getting a James Michener book from him once in reading and I'm like, oh my gosh, grandpa thinks I'm pretty grown up. Yeah. It was like sex and drugs and rock and roll but then along the way in the story, people started to have consequences for various things that were going on in their life. And I'm like, yeah, grandpa, he knows what he's doing. Yeah, I guess my family was obviously a big influence on me. That's wonderful. Yeah. So then you went to college, what did you major in? Journalism. My love of reading and storytelling, all of that really worked together. And in high school, I was on the yearbook staff and when I went to college, I was the magazine editor and I'm the newspaper for a little bit. It was just all part of that being curious about people and things and putting it together in some kind of a way. And so that's what I did at school. And then I kind of floundered for a little bit because I remember my senior year, I knew how to do school. I didn't know how to be a grown up. That transition right there was overwhelming for me because I just didn't know what to do. I can write a paper, I can write a story, I can take this test, but I don't know how to do this other stuff. But I eventually found my way to textbook publishing. So I still get to learn new things and read things sometimes for second graders and sometimes for college kids. But yeah, so that's what I still do even while I've been the director of the recovery center. I've been doing that too. You've been doing that, right. How did you find that company? How did that work out? Which the textbooks? Yeah. Oh, well, actually my first real big job that I think of as my publishing college was for a small publishing firm that produced tax and accounting manuals for solo and small practitioners. And it wasn't real glamorous, exciting stuff to read, but it was such an amazing company and group of people and their hallmark was to provide practical how-to guidance for practitioners. So if you're at the IRS, if you're somewhere in a hearing or whatever, you wanna be able to pick up this book and go to this paragraph and read in one or two sentences what you need to know. And so we would start with like page long paragraphs and you know, you're an editor to slice it down into something that is meaningful to somebody who's not at the IRS or the ICPA or whatever. And so I learned a lot about language and editing and how to put together things in a very detailed way. And yeah, and I learned, I started out probably as a proofreader and then a copy editor and then became a managing editor and stuff kind of along the way. Just done. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. And at some point you decided to cash your son chips in and go from Texas back to Vermont in the Northeast. I still can't believe I'm this far north again, but here I am. Yes, I was, yeah, I lived in Texas for a while. And one thing I did when I didn't know how to be a grownup was I got married. I thought that would be the answer. And he was a wonderful person, kind of looked good on paper and all that, but that ended and right before I was in textbook publishing at that time and all of the publishing companies were gobbling each other up. And so the company I was working for was part of one merger or another. And I could have, my cat is wreaking havoc. I could have relocated to Southern California, Columbus I think, or Boston. And so there was a lot going on in my family at the time. So I thought, well, maybe this is the universe telling me I need to be a little closer to home. And so I chose Boston and I love visiting Boston. I did not like living there. I would have to get on the bus and go the subway and spending two and a half hours a day just getting to and from places didn't appeal to me. But it was a relatively reasonable drive to Central New York to see my family. And I got to be, it used to be that I'd come home once or twice a year and it would be like I was a visiting dignitary. And during that time when I was around more, at some point I just became a member of the family. And they're like, oh, is Sue home this weekend? I didn't know she was coming. So it was just like part of again. And during that time, I was glad I got to be home. My grandfather got quite ill and passed away. So I got to be there for my grandma and my mom. My mom's an only child. So that was a lot for her. And also when I first moved back, my dad didn't have a lot of consequences for things. But right when I moved back, he had gotten a DUI and was under house arrest for a while, which was, it was devastating for him. He'd never had anything like that. So I think that was part of what made it meaningful for me is that I got to be there. Certainly for my mom and for my dad too, to the extent that he would let us. So it was just a very complicated time. And it ended up being much more about family than relocating for my job. And then as things kind of settled down, yeah, Boston, I was there for about three years, I guess. And I just, yeah, one day it was super stressful at work. And I said, I'm gonna see what else is out there. And I got on a textbook website for job postings. And there was something in a place called Brattleboro, Vermont. And I'm like, what kind of publishing place is up in Brattleboro and what is Brattleboro? And I sent in my letter in my resume. I got a call the next day. And then I had a phone interview. And then the next Monday I was up in Brattleboro having an in-person interview. And then they offered me the job before I left. And I'm like, well, this is all happening kind of fast. And then I'm driving back and they're calling to give me more information. And when all was said and done, yeah, I started to work for a company up here called Stratford Publishing Services that exists under a different name now. But yeah, I was working in Boston three days and I would come up two days and over like six weeks I ended, I then relocated and then was living in Brattleboro and working at this place. And wondering how I got this far north again and how cold the winters were gonna be. But I, and I thought, you know maybe I was just kind of passing through because yeah, this is way north. I still haven't accepted it. But Brattleboro is just this artsy, artsy quirky little corner of the world. And I just fell in love with it over time. And I've been here, what, 16 years now. Wow, that's wonderful. Yeah, it's just crazy. Yeah, so yeah, I worked for that company for a couple of years and yeah, there was more mergers and it was just very stressful and I left that. And for a while, I went back to the company in Boston but I lived in Brattleboro and I would just go down one certain way. Oh I see, yep. And that was working pretty well. And meantime in Brattleboro there's a new place called the Turning Point of Wyndham County and it's a recovery center. And I'll talk about this in a minute but I'm a person along term recovering myself and that means I haven't had a drink in almost 24 years. Wow. And so I was part of a recovery community here and one of my friends was the first volunteer coordinator at Turning Point. And he kept saying, you've got a flexible schedule. You should come down and volunteer. And he was just relentless. And so I did. And then the first day I was at the center volunteering I met the person who was the board chair at the time. And there was some stuff going on. It was a very new center and they were looking at ways. Anyway, I had experience with budgeting and management and some things and his eyes kept getting bigger and bigger. Would you come to a board meeting? I said, sure. And then I ended up being the secretary and it just a very, my whole time at Turning Point has been one coincidence after another and just kind of following where life leads. And by the fall, the first director had left and then we as a board tried to decide, okay, does Brandeborough really want this place? Can we make this happen? And we ran it as a board and tried to figure things out for a few months. And we were very behind. We had a lot of, we had to get our house in order. And one day the landlord, some guy out in California called and he said, I see you all are struggling. What if I cut your rent in half for the next six months to give you a chance to get on your feet? What do you think? I'm like, yes, please. And so at that point, it seems like we could make something happen. Happened and I agreed to be the interim director. And yeah, that was 13 years ago. Because it's just kind of like that. One opportunity after another and sometimes it was like opportunity calamity, opportunity calamity, but mostly the opportunities and the little miracles and the wonderful, wonderful people along the way. I've gotten to be part of a recovery movement at a time when recovery generally is, has gone through some pretty significant transformation, exciting ones. And here in Vermont, it's been very special. And I just got to be part of it when it was happening, when recovery coaching was new and when the network was maybe seven centers when I joined and it's now in that work of 12 or there are 12 centers in the state. So yeah, that's kind of how I landed in at turning point of Wyndham County. There's three things I want you to talk about around your work there, but I also want to go back to your dad for a second. Did he ever get to a place of recovery himself? We hadn't intervention for him. When I was still in Texas actually, and it changed things and he was, he didn't drink for, I think maybe four months, but he, mom came home from work one day and, and he said, okay, we need to talk. I never had anything like what people say a bottom is. I don't, I didn't know what people were talking about most of the time, but what I know is that it changed us. We had the intervention and is a process where you each read a letter that you've prepared for and you say how things, his behavior affects you. And then the idea was that if he was at the end, if he heard all that and said, okay, I hear you and I will go to treatment that was all lined up and everything. And if not, then you would read a second letter and say, okay, if you're not willing to do that, then here are the things that will change. And we actually had to read the second letter and then he said, well, all right, okay, I'll go. And so what I know after that, even when he started to drink again, it was different. It was very different. He wasn't as depressed and it was just different. The dynamic was different. And I have people in my family who've been in recovery now for decades. Before I even knew what recovery was, my mom was in recovery. And I remember when it happened, even though I didn't know it at the time, because my dad was a farmer. And so he would have to milk the cows in the afternoon. And a lot of times he would go out afterwards. I have to go pick up parts or I have to go do this or that. And mom would call around to his favorite places to see when he was coming home for dinner. I feel a little bad talking about him. I love my dad so much. I know, it comes through, believe me, for both parents. I can, yes. Yeah. So she would do that and we would eat whenever he got home, maybe seven, 30 or eight o'clock. And she did that. And then one night she called us down for dinner and we're like, dad's not home. And she said, your father knows what time dinner is. And we're eating dinner. And I was a snarky little kid. It was like mom grew a backbone overnight. And I didn't understand what was happening, but she had started to go to Al-Anon. And so she stopped kind of trying to fix things and she stopped orbiting around the person who was in pain and tried to just reset things. And so that, and then when we did the intervention, it just changed the rhythm. It changed the way we were reacting to things. Yeah. And yeah. Important moments there. Yeah. So let's go back to the turning point. There's three things that come to mind when I think of your 13 years or so in the job. It's hard to imagine 13 years, isn't it? But so there's the new building. There's the focus on training that you have had for a long time to make sure that your staff and others are the best they could be in the work. And then there's your role as the, you were the president of all the recovery centers for a number of years as well. So you went from that incidental happening into this Al-Anon and Wyndham to really being the leader of all of them. Tell, talk about that a little bit. Sure. You know, I think it's how I learned things. I just kind of immersed myself. So when I became the interim director, I didn't know what the network was. I didn't know what ADAP was. I had a lot of transferable skills from publishing, but I didn't know anything about working with a board. I didn't know anything about fundraising and the advocacy was all very new to me. So I just started to go to all the meetings and I was asked to be the secretary. And I thought, well, I would have to take notes and I would have to understand what I was writing about. So I attended the meetings and I got to know the people at the state and how the funding worked and the other recovery centers and how we interact with the treatment provider system and hospitals and, you know, honestly for the first, I don't know, two or three years or more, I wasn't as emotionally connected to the work. It was more like, okay, this isn't who I am. This isn't what I do. I'm over here in the passing lane. I'm just kind of doing this thing for a while. And somewhere along the way, I got really captivated by what was happening because as I said, it was just a very pivotal time in what was happening with recovery and what was happening with helping people with substance use disorder who have a medical issue but who are being stigmatized and not supported in the ways that were helpful. So yeah, so I became secretary and just as I was around more and doing things and, you know, one year, I think it was 2011 or 2012 when we were electing officers, I became, well, my cats are going crazy. I became the president and that was a whole different. It was interesting. It was really a learning experience for me, although it was a little too much politics, but I did get to see some of the work, some more of the background stuff and to understand how all the pieces and parts fit together and to learn also ways from other states somehow through grants and things like that. So it was just a way to kind of keep learning more. And I love all my recovery center director colleagues that we can do together what we individually as small recovery centers just couldn't do alone. And so we collaborated on developing recovery coaching programs and, you know, seeking grants together that is as a community of centers we could attract, but we probably couldn't attract on our own. So yeah, I just kind of came along for the ride and kept following where my interest was taking me. And I know a lot of that was training because it's such complicated work and you need so many supports. And even when we use volunteers, we wanna be sure that they are informed enough that they can support people and also keep themselves safe as well, safe in the sense that compassion fatigue, secondary stress, those things can really pack a wallet. You know, when you care so much about what you're doing and sometimes you're just so frustrated by the complexities of the system or the lack of services. And that we lose people, we lose people too often. And when there are people that you've supported or maybe people that you grew up with because we live in a very small town, it can really take a toll. So I've just always felt that it was important to provide that kind of support for our team. And to talk about, we started a new training maybe six or eight months ago. We've lost a lot of people during this pandemic time and it's been hard on our staff. And so we have a training about grief. How do you handle grief in your role when it just is sometimes so heartbreaking and so relentless and you feel so powerless? Yes. So, yeah, so that's kind of how that happened. Yeah, well that's great. And the building, tell us about the building. Yes, that was more, lots of serendipity in my turning point stories. Let's see, so yes, that landlord had called and said, hey, if I cut your rent in half, maybe that would help. And so it did, it helped, but then we did decide to move out of downtown. We were paying $1,800 a month in rent, which was just insane for the funding we had at the time. So we moved outside of downtown a little too far, even though we were on the bus line and we were close to some key places, it was a little too far and we knew that almost immediately. And so it was interesting that it was unfortunate that we had to move, but it also attracted a lot of attention because people started to say, we need to find a way to get you all back downtown. And so after a year and a half or so, I had somebody, a person recovery come and say, hey, why don't you form a relocation task force? Here's something I did somewhere else. And so that meant that the staff would keep doing what they're doing. I would, the board would keep doing what they're doing, but there would be a task force of people who were just gonna be on the lookout for possible buildings or places to build or grant funding or whatever. They would do that and then we would meet regularly and they would come back to us with results. And this one building, in the meantime, there's been tropical storm Irene that happened in, I don't remember when that happened, but. 2012. Okay. Yeah, we actually moved the day before the storm. We moved out of downtown the day before the storm and it was a beautiful day. And I thought, oh, this is gonna be a big nothing. And then the next day, some of the pictures I saw were from right outside our center looking down on Flat Street where it was flooded. And the house where we're in now is on that corner. And we got it at auction in foreclosure because it was right there in that 100 year floodplain area. So that kept showing up the task force people kept saying, yeah, this one is kind of gonna need some work. It's, I don't know, but it kept coming around. And one of the task force members in particular just kind of kept stopping by and then met the people. And anyway, we got very involved with it. And then when it went up for auction, we ended up, we had done enough work at that point that we ended up getting it for $76,000. Oh my goodness. And then we spent a fortune fixing it up. Right. It's gorgeous. Yeah. Beautiful building. Bright and sunny and I don't, it's as if I don't remember ever being any place else. It's like I felt like home and that we're right there in the heart of downtown and that recovery is visible and just part of the community. And we've beautiful gardens in the spring and it's just part of, we feel very much part of the community and the neighborhood really embraces us. We never had any of the not my backyard stuff. Right. Never. It speaks well of Rattleboro. Yeah. And the work you guys do. Yeah. So, well, so what's Susie Walker's life outside of her work? What do you love to do? What are your passions, applications? Well, I mentioned that I've been sewing since I was a little kid and during the pandemic early on, I was making face masks. I was like, I have a sewing machine. I can do something to help. And then I started to get a lot of different pretty fabrics because it's kind of monotonous to just make these little face masks over and over. And my zoom is helping me out. Yes. So at some point I had this, the stash of fabric. And I said, geez, maybe I'll make a quilt, which I'd never done before. So during the pandemic, I became a quilter. So I made my quilt out of all the remnants that I had from the face mask. And I actually included several face masks in the quilt itself. Wow. Makes me giggle. But so yeah, I did that. And then I became just one of these crazy quilting people that can't seem to get enough fabric. And I think I've got five or six projects here going right now because it's just become that thing about taking the colors and the patterns and the different things and putting them together for whatever a gift or a project of some kind. And my friends are also very dear to me. And I've got a group of gal pals from college and we've got a social media chat going all the time. And we'll share the last few months. Some of my friends have lost parents or dear ones. And so we share things like that. We share silly things. And we share the love of quilting. That's wonderful. We get together for the last, I think 15 years we've gotten together once a year. We each took a turn hosting. So they were in Brattleboro one year. And it's just our time to come together and reconnect with each other. And this past year, when we got together, we said, let's do kind of like a quilting retreat. Not entirely the whole time, but we picked our colors from school purple and white. And we all were tasked with designing four blocks that we had to make seven of each. And then we brought them to Texas and had like a block swap. And now we're all, we started out with the plan of having six, eight or 10 inch squares. And in true gal pal fashion, we ended up with everything from six inches to 18 inches. So now you've got like 30 some odd blocks. And it's like, how do you put that together into something that makes sense? So we all are, and it's been really fun seeing all that happen. So yeah, my friends are dear to me. I like to travel and visit people. And yeah, certainly my sewing and things like that and to be involved in the community in different ways. That's wonderful. Yeah, still read a lot, still. You got your two cats over there. I just see my cats, yeah. Reaking havoc while I'm talking to you. Do you have, are there any favorite quotes that you have about life or our wisdoms that you'd like to share for others to benefit from? Sure. I have lots of, I'm not wearing them today. I have lots of things that have to do with light. I really believe that we all have like a celestial spark inside of us somewhere. And that I'm drawn to things like that. But I did find this, I had to have it in front of me, but ever since happiness heard your name it has been running through the streets trying to find you. I just loved that. I just loved that. And Marianne Williamson, how she talks about that it's not the darkness we most fear, but it's the light that we sometimes don't realize in our own radiance. And that we fear the dark when, we think we fear the dark, but it's really being our most radiant selves that overwhelms us, I guess. Yes. Wow. Beautiful. So what's next? You have a next after? Yeah, I'm in the middle of it. In that I had decided that it was time to leave Turning Point after these years. It was just time. And so since October, well, before that I guess we've had a hiring committee and they've been working on interviewing people and doing all of that. So I'm in the process of transitioning out and following in the fine footsteps of people like you who transitioned out but did so with like an onboarding period to help the new person. Cause it's such a complicated, unusual job. I can't imagine doing it any other way even though you and I probably both did just, here's your office, good luck to you. That's right. So that's the plan is we'll find somebody and I'll spend, I don't even know, two or three or four months being around less and less over time. And so we've been really working with the team and the staff to make sure they feel supported and part of, and that's really important. And we're using it as an opportunity to look at our values and our mission because like a lot of places, the pandemic has changed the way we do business. And so we're trying to react to that. But I've been doing my editing throughout my tenure at Turning Point. And so I've just now shifted the balance back to being more editing and reducing my hours at Turning Point while I support the team. And I'm just, I've just noticed that I've been delegating more. I feel more like a consultant in some ways that I'm there to help them through this transition. And yet my day-to-day role at the center is already different. Which is I guess natural as I'm moving out. I keep feeling myself shift in different ways. Like I went through a pretty big one a couple of weeks ago. It's like, oh, you know how like when you're walking over a puddle, you've got one foot here and one foot here. And then all of a sudden you're all the way on one side. I suddenly just felt like, oh wow, I'm all the way on the other side now. So, but it's like with all the things that I'm involved in is the people that are the most special to me. So I keep assuring them. I'll still be here and I collect people. I've still got a great school friend in my back. Yes, you do collect people. And that a lot of who you are today is that collection of all those friends and family. Yeah, that's wonderful. Yeah. So that's the plan. Okay, that's a great plan, Susie. So as we kind of wrap up our time together on this interview, is there anything you want to say or any part of your life that you wanna give attention to before we close for the day? Oh my goodness, that's a big question. I don't know, I'm just, I have a very grateful heart. And for me, a big part of that is being a person, a recovery. And so I'm glad I got to learn more about that as a person and to just know how big recovery is and how different it is for people. And I don't know why this popped into my head, but it did. But I've just learned a lot of tools, a lot of life skills along the way, maybe a little bit of wisdom from being that scared little girl, trying to create my own world to being in the world and open to it. And I guess about a dozen years ago, I learned I was doing this meditation program and it just, it was just maybe the time in my life or something, but it just really clicked in all kinds of ways. And somewhere in that period, I started to wake up every morning to the sound of this song every day. And it was a song I knew from growing up. And it's not a song I thought about a lot. I mean, I liked it well enough, but literally every morning I'd wake up and there would be. And at first I was like, seriously? Okay. And then I'd be like, oh, hello song. And now I just listened to it, but it's been there for all these years now. It went silent a couple of times during a period of pre. And then I didn't know it was gone till it came back. But I don't even know what that means except that I try to just have a sense of wonder. Yeah, yeah. Have a sense of wonder and connection and to just really cherish those seemingly little things, quirky things and all the amazing people around me to really see the light in them because we all have one. And maybe that's part of the work at Turning Point is that there are so many people that have gone dark out of pain and turmoil and other things. And so if the little bit we can do is to help people see their own light, I think that's why I've stuck around just as long as I have. That's well said. I think you've turned the light on for thousands of people, not only in Wyndham County, but across the state. Thank you. Thank you, Gary. What's the name of the song? I have told, music is so personal. I told my mom, she's like, oh, hmm. So. It's okay. We'll leave it there. Yeah. We'll leave it there. Well, thank you for the time today. You've had an amazing life and we've all benefited from it. And I know that all that you have done will continue. And I look forward to that. Thanks, Gary.