 Okay, everyone welcome. Thank you for taking some time out of your busy schedules for us tonight. My name is Dan I'm the director development programming for the bed for playhouse. And I want to welcome you all to what's going to be a really, really fun conversation. As we observe a women's history month. Before we introduce our moderator and our panel. Just a quick couple of things. You are all welcome to ask a question at any point during the evening, there'll be a Q&A towards the second half of the program. For those of you who are not familiar at the bottom of your screen on your laptop or PC. There should be a little Q&A button that you can use and you can post a question. Please, if you are on your phone or iPad, please use the, I think it's at the top of your screen. It's a little bit of a different layout. Please try to avoid using the chat feature. It gets a little bit confusing. So if we can please ask all your questions to the Q&A, and we'll get to as many of them as we can tonight. The bed for playhouse is a nonprofit. We hope that if you enjoy this evening's program, you might consider visiting our website, which is www.bedforplayhouse.org and consider making a donation. So we can continue to bring programs like this to the community. Every amount helps. And we really appreciate it. We're very, very grateful for all of your support. So instead, I would like to introduce tonight's moderator. The bed for playhouse is very own Courtney Walker. Hey Courtney. Hello. Hello, everyone. Good evening. I'm really excited for tonight's program. My name is Courtney Walker and I'm the director of marketing and communication here at the playhouse. First extend a special thank you to the Kund Hart Film Foundation for access to this absolutely incredible documentary. We are so fortunate. Coincidentally, it happens to be Gloria Steinem's 87th birthday. And I think that she would approve of this very amazing panel that we're about to talk to. As we celebrate women's history month and the birth of a feminist icon, it's the perfect time to talk about a woman and a journalist who did so much for the feminist movement with three women journalists and storytellers who are making quite an impact. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce you to our panelists. L Duncan is a television sports veteran who joined ESPN as an anchor for Sports Center, the network signature news and information program in May of 2016. She just recently was promoted to evening 6pm anchor in June of 2020 Duncan was named co-host with Clinton Gates of ESPN the undefeated, a new weekly radio program, the intersection, airing Thursday nights on ESPN radio. So our program features in depth discussions, continuing the conversation around the impact of social justice on sports and society. Lynn Smith is the anchor of HLN CNN's headline news live daily news program on the story, which she joined in March 2019 after five years of hosting the network's popular weekend Express with Lynn Smith. And also the host of the all good things Instagram live on her Instagram live channel. Prior to working at HLN Smith hosted first look on MSNBC and early today on NBC. Dimitra Ganias is founder of Ganias Media Lab, a boutique consulting firm that propels clients to transform their careers through public speaking and media training. Dimitra is also a reporter and editor for the Fairfield County Look magazine, which introduces readers to intriguing human interest stories in southern Connecticut. Welcome, Lynn L and Dimitra, let's get started right away. I'm so excited to have the ladies here. Thank you so much. So, we'll start at the beginning of the film and there's a lot of archival footage that spans decades of Gloria's career and as well as centuries of the women's movement. So, you know, we could see the impassioned position that she had in those scenes, and the, you know, the opposition that she faced from men and women. So what were your thoughts, ladies on that opening montage. Who wants to start. You want me to. You know, I was really taken by how I feel like I didn't really know how much history was there. And in some ways, it made me a little disappointed that I'm taking for granted the path that was blazed for all of us. You know, before we got on here, Elle was talking about how she came back from maternity leave and she was promoted to the 6pm show. I mean, just, just get your head around the fact that we're talking about a film where she was just fighting for us to have a seat at the table. You're getting promoted coming back from maternity leave so in some ways I was almost disappointed in myself that I just didn't really have that real understanding of how impactful this movement was and how far behind we were, and then really proud of where we are now. It's true, it was such an amazing first scene to meet you I feel like you have something to say here. I do it was interesting to see all of the boxes that women were put in about where they should be and where they ought to go. And the sentence from the gentleman who said you know women are supposed to stay home have kids and clean the house. And in my mind it's such a point of accuracy to say women can do whatever they want and in the end, even if it's 2030 40 years later if that's what a woman wants to do. That's my kind of feminism so it's really about women creating the story that they want. So it's not really about where should women be the question for me is, where do women want to be. So the fact that we're in a position to decide where we want to end up. That's the kind of feminism that I want to sign on for so I like the option of what women have now as opposed to, you know decades ago when we were just told. So it's the option for me that really rings true. Yeah, I think Courtney for me. What really stood out was two things her steadiness despite, you know, being really transparent about her vulnerability. You know this idea that people hated her like this idea of glorious dynamism is just this like steady sort of unaffected. It doesn't matter the kind of hate she was getting it didn't matter she was always sort of, you know, intentional about where she was going and knew her purpose and just to hear her be really vulnerable, vulnerable about the fact that like she didn't want to be a villain and she didn't want any of those things but her purpose was more important than how she was necessarily perceived. And the other thing that stood out to me was when the man described the women as militant. It stood out to me because I hear that a lot too, as it pertains to the black community you know being a black woman is another sort of additional layer and wrinkle to being a woman and we are often described as militant and angry just because we're asking for equal rights that we're asking for justice we don't want favoritism we just want to be seen in equal footing you know. I have an idea that that could be so radical, and so, you know, and painted as such, to me just really stood out to me because it's something that certainly still resonates today for a lot of communities of color, and for women as well. Absolutely. And I know, you know, at the beginning I'm going to stay there for a few minutes because there was so much right that right at the top of the documentary but starting with her childhood. There was a there was a lot I mean she she dealt with quite a bit and had to grow up pretty fast. How do you think that influenced her ambitions and her journey. I think it was a good message to young people in general that adversity is not a bad thing, and that it can really shape who you are and in some ways, it can push you into places that change the world I mean that's what that was so the picture perfect childhood. You know I don't know that those are the people that change the world and we all have a version of that story, whether it's as as dramatic and and horrible as what she went through but anyone who is trying to do something impactful has a purpose behind it. And it's usually the adversity they faced, and the resiliency they acquired because of that. Interesting to me how much she pushed back against the idea of being a caretaker after having taken care of her mother. And she was so emotional the one thing that really struck me she said the one thing in my life that I regret is not seeing my father before he passed away. But when she got word that, you know it was near the end she should go and see him. I know I knew that I would go there and get stuck taking care of him. And she had such an aversion to that because of her youth with her mother. So it's interesting that she knew she was not cut out for something. There was something in this life that she did not want to do. Even though she found pain from that later in her life, she really took a stand for what she thought was putting herself first. And I think that's something that is women we really grapple with because we are caretakers to so many generations whether the older one above us our parents or our children. And didn't you think it was so beautiful that at the end, not only was she able to find a relationship when when marriage was something that she resisted so much but she was able to be a caretaker to him. Oh yeah, that was one of the only times that she really you could see her cry. I mean that was one of the only time she got emotional really in the whole where you actually saw tears in her eyes, you know just talking about her father and her husband I just thought that was a really poignant moment. Yeah, I thought, I thought it's funny that Dimitri brought up, you know specifically being a caretaker because what stood out to me about that is how she talked about how fearful she was right like how she sort of her existence of being a little kid was being in a lot of fear and how how terrifying it was to be a child sort of taking care of a grown up and it reminded me that fear can be a sort of a great motivator and in many ways like experiencing that sort of tragedy and that sort of adversity at that age, probably in many ways gave her sadly I mean I wish it hadn't have come about right but probably gave her some of those tools that when she would go on in life to become sort of this face of a very volatile movement at the time for many people. She she went about it not unafraid right because a lot of times we act like people who are courageous or without fear. That's not it it's that they they understand the full gravity of what they're doing and they are fearful and yet and still they find a way to work through it and do it anyway so it felt like maybe some of those traumatic experiences prepared her for this kind of role in society and in a movement that was so polarizing at the time and let's be honest remains to be absolutely remains to be. It's crazy that it still remains to be as we talk we were I was talking yesterday about an L this this is for you really I mean she faced so much adversity going into a field that was male dominated and launching Miss magazine and then you know succeeding and we just saw last week the NCAA women's tournament and the conditions they faced right so especially I'm going to direct it to all of you but I want to start with you out with sports what what is your feeling on that and how is it how is it been breaking into an industry that for so long has been so male dominated. Yeah, you have to forgive me they're all of a sudden they're checking stuff in the studio that they're supposed to be doing I'm like I don't know what's happening right now I knew I was doing this in here. So this is sort of like. This is like a perfect sort of example of like what it's like you're trying to get things done and there's a lot of chatter and noise and I think that is what it is sort of to be a woman in a male dominated industry or a woman who is in the public I like the women on this panel, you know Lynn and Dimitri know what it's like to sort of be judged with a different set of parameters than your male counterparts and I think that for me, you know, looking at what the NCAA did I wish I was surprised was any of us really surprised we were upset, you know, it was, it was sad to see it but none of us were realize that that's how we're treated because we're just judged in a different way and I think you know for me I've always been about the work I've always been about keeping my head down, trying to be a good colleague and being over prepared and there's an element of that that is unfair that we as women are like we have to be over prepared for the same type of roles that men have but you know, I, I know that I can lean on, on the controllables I can only control the controllables and that is how prepared I am and how willing I am to sort of, you know, have an opinion and step up and be opinionated so for me, there's been some good times but I also don't want it to be perceived that if you are working a male dominated industry that every day you're just batting away sexual harassment like that has also not been my experience and that might be some people's experience has not been my experience I have certainly had situations like that don't get me wrong but in my 20 year career of doing you know radio and entertainment and now sports. I've, I've had more good allies in this male dominated industry that I've had detractors so that's at least been my experience I don't know, you know how Lenin Demetra feel about that I just sometimes it's like this cautionary tale that these young women sort of, they're armed with like, right, I know I'm going to have to be prepared to like find a way creeps and it's like, it's not always like that right. Right. I think you make a great point I thought about that a lot when talking about women in journalism because I've encountered such incredible male mentors, yes, who believed in me and gave me chances and yes I've encountered exactly what you're talking about but I don't want to talk about the fact that there are a lot of men out there in this field that understand what we do they believe in us and they want to mentor us in the same way that they would have man and so I give them a lot of credit for that. I also had an experience and I, I speak to this because it was the reaction my reaction that I think dictates where something goes. When I started at a local market and unnamed local market. I had an unnamed male colleague insinuate that maybe I slept my way into the position I had started at today show as a producer and literally killed myself. I was working my way through this and made impressions in a way that gave me opportunities to be an online correspondent for them. Got noticed then got an opportunity after that and that insinuation, you know, I could have let really destroy me. I could have let really influence how I felt and the only thing I thought to myself was, I can't wait to show you what I do with this. And I think that there, there's a real responsibility that we have as women to not give the power that that some of these men who do that and as we mentioned it's not all of them but give ourselves the power back that you know can't wait till you see what I'm going to do with this. And I think that's really important, especially for women who are thinking about going into this field your confidence in yourself. And I think that Gloria talking about confidence really, really stuck with me because I don't think I found mine until my 40s my late 30s, especially in this industry and I think that and I know we'll probably talk about that but her vulnerability and her honesty about that she was filling a void. In some cases when it came to her confidence it's important for women to recognize that and be aware. I think my journey was about an evolution, you know, building on what you said I think when I first started in news I wanted to blend in and play the game and be just as good if not better than the men. But I think now there's more but you know we're in a separate lane, get out of the men's lane and instead of trying to compete get in your own lane, highlight what women do better celebrate a female perspective and shine on our own so it's not even beat them at their own game it's forget that game, start your own game and be the best at what you do. We're not even trying to assimilate anymore it's doing something totally out of the box completely unpredictable, because we are better at a lot of things. And now we're not embarrassed to say it so and to that point to meet your I love that you said that because I think that a lot of times we assume that we have to check some of the things some of the tropes right that men sort of ascribe to us. They've spent a long time making it seem like those are hits on our character as opposed to things that we can lean on right like being emotional or being sensitive those are our superpowers that women have we have intuition and intellect and we do have empathy empathy. Yes, those things are a positive Lynn right like those things should be used to our advantage not used to make us seem like the weaker sex because we all know that that isn't true. I wouldn't change or trade being a woman for anything in the world, despite the fact that we have to fight harder for the same, you know, to be equitable to men but we need to learn to use all of those things that make us uniquely feminine in these roles so that we can shine away from it and to Dimitri's point just trying to act like a man and address like that's not what anybody needs or is looking for incredible point. Absolutely. I. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, she also, she also brought up the conversation about being radical and this sort of is in that same that same realm but her magazine really in 1972 was seen as a really radical piece of work right it was the first national feminist magazine and everybody people thought it was going to fail including her in your eyes, how do you think we've progressed since that time. And then after that I want to know how you think we've regressed or stayed the same. I'm struck by how right now things that feel uncomfortable, whether you agree with them or not, if they feel uncomfortable that we're not yet at a place where we can agree to disagree that we can have a conversation about things that it's still. If you disagree with me or if this is so outside of what I'm comfortable with, it's radical. And I think that as a society if we don't close that gap and if we don't open up our eyes to different thought processes and different ideas than what we're comfortable with. We're never going to get to the place where we're all going to be the happiest and and that's the thing that I think that was most disappointing and thinking about it and the thing that was most positive was seeing how much progress we've made as I said in the beginning it was just striking to me that you know I was watching the Walter Cronkites say in such disdain I mean you could hear it in their voice, they're disdain for what she was doing and to see now you know that would never fly, that would trend on Twitter. That would become a meme if that were the case so we've seen great progress but I think there's a lot of space for us to grow still. Absolutely. I thought it was interesting how you know women took different approaches to getting this revolution going Gloria Steinem was this even keel very calm very composed person as I mentioned, and then there were women who were literally in people's faces yelling screaming demanding for their time, you know there was one scene where women were at the, I think it was the convention was being nominated yes and they were trying to get coverage on the news, and the women were yelling in the producer's face saying, we're here, we deserve to be heard to be seen, and for all of our grievances to be aired and they were almost getting physical with them you know in his face and saying, but good for them because I don't have that in me that's not the type of person I am, but it takes all kinds of women for a revolution to happen. So you can be the quieter person and still make an impact. It's just where do you want to be on the spectrum of, you know, all of the women out there we're not all the same so each one of us has a gift that we bring to the conversation that we bring to the revolution. You know, even all these decades later, we're not all the same, and that's great. What can you bring to the conversation, and what can I bring all of it is worthy and deserves to be heard. That's no that's excellent I would say for me to Lin's point some of like in terms of where we've come from. I was just giggling at the fact that I didn't realize like Ms was so controversial like I always was like yeah once I get past a certain time I'm not married I'm using miss like it just sounded young to me and I can't believe that that was a source of contention at some point like just saying miss Mrs or miss. We've come a long way I think in many regards right the idea that you know we all that Dimitri owns a business and that you know Lynn is on a major network news network and host her own shows like that alone. That alone is a significant change but the idea that we are still all these years later sort of fighting about the same issues that Gloria Stein was fighting about to me is where we just need to see some more progress I mean we're over here still fighting about reproductive rights we're over here still asking to be paid you know the same amount as our male counterparts we're still asking for for maternity leave like we're asking to to to still have protection, not only at our jobs after we decide to have a baby, but to still be paid what we deserve to be paid, in particular in this country I've got friends that are Canadian that had 18 months off when they had their baby, you know because you need more than six weeks that the law gives you and so daycare. And all these things that that she was bringing up that were issues in the 60s and 70s to me that was the most mind blowing aspect was that we are still fighting that fight. 50 years later and it's concerning to me that that we are not only still fighting that fight, but that we seem to have lost some momentum in that fight because I think in this country right now there's this idea that we can't just chew gum at the same time so it's like oh well if we're dealing with rights for black people that we're going to have to wait on the women's rights and if we're dealing with women's rights then sorry Asians you're out and that's just it's asinine to me that we can't address every marginalized community whatever that looks like and take a look at what we are not and what we are doing and fix it so that's my biggest concern is that women and all of this are going to end up sort of taking a backseat to some other communities because at the end of the day they'll say you're doing just fine honey you're on sports center Lynn you're you're doing just fine so we need to meet you you don't seem to be doing so bad and they will sort of minimize our fight. I want to go there for a minute because you know the work life balance and the children and the pandemic. We all have balance Courtney. Well I mean you know Gloria didn't have kids right but she was in that fight for us. She was in that fight fighting for better childcare options in the 70s and here we are as we said sometimes six weeks sometimes no maternity leave. So you know we're all in this and so many mothers that I know and I'm sure a lot of them that you all know left the workforce during this time right because we have to be the default parent we have to homeschool our kids. We have to get on zooms with them and we have to do hybrid learning and you know we can't afford the childcare that we once had so what do you what do you what do you ladies think about this how can the United States really work to provide better options and to support mothers so that we don't have to take a step back. I actually did a segment on this they're calling it a she session, and they are raising alarm bells as they should. The New York Times did an incredible piece on the primal scream, and how they started a hotline where they just call and scream, because they need to because it's so you know what they don't understand and they have incredible statistics and I encourage people to go out there and look at it because I know there might be some dads out there that say I do a lot to I'm actually the, the primary caregiver while my wife is the breadwinner and I know that that's true but that the statistics show the majority of the work falls on the mother and that, in addition to working is incredibly unrealistic in this pandemic, and it is so many women and all the decades of progress that we've made to leave the workforce and we can't let that happen so that's the headline and the solution and I spoke to one of my dear friends Alison Battelle who heads up the women's collective here in Atlanta, and she said, you know, companies are more successful and profitable with women at the top. It's almost like you have to, and it's a sad carrot that we've got a wave in front of companies and male led boards that they have to be more flexible, they have to allow for flexible schedules and all of these things. And that's just a baseline right. It's then on a national level and a federal level, there has to be protections for things like this, but what does that look like we know when it comes to government and red tape that that's sort of a wish list item that really falls on the responsibility of managers to say I can't lose these women in the workplace I need them. You would hope for a good reason that that it's you know the right thing to do but if you financially make it something that's better for them may get a reaction but it's just something that is so important for us to talk about because if we don't have females at the top, then we don't have anyone to pass the baton back to and pull them pull them up with us. And I'm going to add to that because I know also in the New York Times there was a full page ad of something called a Marshall plan for women. You know, signatures upon signatures and names upon names of women saying, we need help. There's no way we can do two full time jobs at once. It's forcing me to fail at one or fail at the other and it's just not fair to women for women to be in that position. I was fortunate a couple of months ago to interview Eve Rodsky, who is the author of Fair Play, and Fair Play is a book, but it's also a movement. And it's about bringing light to light all of the invisible little jobs that women do. So we go to work but we're busy thinking about, oh wait, did I get that snack or wait that food was running out? Did I get that? Did I sign up my kid for this? Did I fill out the form for school and all of these million little things that really keep us back because we don't go to work and focus on work. We go to work and have so much on our plate that is put on us in these caregiver roles. So yeah, I love to be my husband who goes to work and just gets to focus on work. Imagine what I could do. Imagine who I could be if I had the time and energy dedicated to my profession as men do. So it's just an interesting point to bring up because a lot of times we're shouldering the burden of two people and still trying to bring home a paycheck and still trying to get promoted. It's asking too much of one person, I think. Demetra and Lynn nailed it. I think that women in general are overachievers and sometimes we need to be protected from ourselves. And you protect us from ourselves by unburdening us, by making it an environment that feels like one you can leave and focus on your family and that it won't be to the detriment of your career. And that is where, to Lynn's point, getting it done and the public sector takes forever. There's Congress, there's Senate, there's the executive branch. There's a lot of red tape to try to get legislation done, but you can in the private sector absolutely implement change. And I'm going to pat Disney on the back right now who I work for ESPN is owned by Disney because they have something called child bonding time. And it used to be three weeks, which would be three weeks in addition to whatever maternity leave that you have. You can take it within the first year of your child being born, you take it in one week in increments, and you get paid and you have to take it, right? Like it was built in so that your managers have to allow you to take it. They cannot say no to your child bonding time. They have recently increased that to eight weeks and they extend that to mothers and fathers. Because again, the idea that maternity leave is the only thing that is important is in of itself sexist. If you don't give fathers the time off that they need as well, you are putting all of that burden back on the mother. So the idea that men should also get paternity leave because they need to keep their butts at home just like we do and really learn how to exist as a family. Bringing in a child is important. And so I really commend a place like Disney for doing that. And it really takes a lot of the pressure off. I just started a new show in any other circumstance. I would say to myself, I can't take any time off despite I've got a lot going on. I started a new show. I'm not taking vacation for the rest of the year. They have protected myself, but protected me from myself. I have to take eight weeks before December and I'm going to because the company has made it important and put an impetus on me taking that time. Every manager right now is listening to what Ellis saying that is exactly what I'm talking about it's on them to ensure that the companies are successful because their employees are happy. Yes. Amen. So good. Everyone I just want to remind you you can submit questions of the chat feature and we will get to some of those soon. Back to this, you know, mothering and and balance. What about technology how how do you feel that that has changed us and you know it's sort of like a blessing and a curse isn't it because the work day used to end at five o'clock and no one had any way of reaching you right so how how do you ladies, how do you ladies deal with that at home how do you balance that. Not well. You know, we were chatting before we got on just how many emails you get right so I one solution is I just made one phone a work email one phone, a personal email and sort of tried to separate myself but I mean we're all overachievers. You know, I don't look at my work days nine to five. I, as I'll say you have to protect yourself from yourself and make that a point and the one thing that I am so cognizant of is time with my children and them seeing me on the phone when I'm playing and things like that. I feel icky sometimes you have to you've got to text something really quick, but that's just it's something as a mother I really want them to feel like when I'm playing and it doesn't have to be like three hours of play be 10 minutes that's what experts told me because I really asked I was like, so how long is it so that they know that I'm invested in like 10 minutes they need one on one time serious one on one time know anything devices, and I that's that's my commitment is like making sure that when I have that family time it's family time. Yeah, I think when we talk to our children about what we're doing the words we use are really important, because I know for me it's when I say I'm working, it can't be a negotiable, because when they ask my husband can you do something and he says, I'm working or I have a meeting. We all have to respect that and I think me demanding that time for me is really important because what mom is doing is just as important. We need to respect that the same way that we respect what your father is doing. And I think just keeping that straight allows them to see okay. It is something serious to so it creates an environment for us right. And then it's also about looking at what the kids do and also explaining to them, my ambition is my ambition. For me, I don't want to say to the world to you and say oh I work really hard for my kids. I do work really hard for my kids and I hope they see that both my sons and my daughter, but I want to own my ambition. I'm saying no no no work is really important because I love what I do. Not only do I love what I do. I'm great at what I do, using those words are so important because everyone needs to be on board and understand. I'm not just working for the paycheck that might support us. So whether you're the breadwinner or not, I think we need to put self respect into what we do and say, it is critical that my job and my ambition are not bad. I think that's something to put aside. I come first. And I think it's like, I kept hearing people tell me before I just had my second before I had my daughter again they're doing pre prod I apologize. They're like it makes you a better parents like go you know and again this is no knock on anyone that chooses to stay home because it is a job that my husband works from home. And it's a job that he doesn't necessarily have to do every day so he's with our kids all the time and like. He has the very challenging job at the two of us. But I do think that it's, it's important that your children sort of see you in many roles and that they see you passionate about something besides them. You know, because I am passionate about my family but I'm passionate about a lot of things and I'm capable of balancing those things, not always well. I suck some days I fail miserably some days when a couple weeks ago was one of those days for my daughter I was playing with her on the sun room. She's two and a half. And she's sitting there and after a couple minutes she looks at me and she goes, Mommy, you're not on your phone. And I was like, how to say it to you where they just cut you deep. It was so crushing. I was like, Oh God she's associating me with the phone and so I felt like a failure that day but that's that's the point is that you know, it's a bit about being intentional, recognizing that like technology is important or keeps us together it keeps the world a bit smaller. And we are in an information industry, all three of us like we have to sort of know what's happening at all times but to Lynn's point, it's just about being intentional in the moment and being aware and being conscious and saying, I have 10 minutes or 20 minutes this can wait what what ball can fall right now and won't break. And what ball can fall right now and we'll bounce back and the email thing is is fine I can wait so that's really what it's about balance, or whatever that is. What would you, what would you ask Gloria, if you have the opportunity. Oh I have one. I would ask if she didn't have children, truly because she never wanted them or if she ever thought about it because I know she mentions having an abortion. And that was something that empowered her at that time she knew that was the right decision for her. And I would ask her her opinion about, you know me saying, I felt ashamed at some points in my life when I took seven years off to just be a mother, telling people I'm just to stay at home mom. And I think so many years after she fought for my freedoms in the workplace. You know how would you feel about me feeling just as ashamed as you did decades ago about me in, you know, the 20 teens saying I'm just a mom and kind of feeling less than because of that. So, you know, in all of this progress we've made, again for me feminism is about being able to make the decision so whatever it is you do it's not about right or wrong or is that a feminist profession or not it's you know are you choosing for yourself so I would say. Gloria, I'm stay at home mom. Is that okay can I still be a feminist I would love to hear her take on that question. That's such a good question. I would ask her are you feeling like we are as far along as you thought we'd be when you were marching in the streets. All those years back, or how much more do you think we need to go. And I say that I actually chose to do this in a women's only workspace that I'm so proud to be a part of one of my friends Jennifer Morgan started this in Atlanta, it's called Eleanor's Space, and it's women's only workspace for really just busy Atlanta women that want a collective space to collaborate to inspire each other and around I mean it's like Ruth Bader Ginsburg there's a Michelle Obama wing I mean it's just all around there's places to tell you that we are in this together and I thought to myself when I was watching the film which I watched in here because is where I do a lot of work not being able to go into the office. I was watching the film seeing those women outside the restaurant where they weren't letting them in because it was a male only club, and I was thinking to myself, look at where we are right we're at a point where now there's a women's only club. And we've gotten this far you know the wing is similar in New York where not only are we successful entrepreneurs Jennifer is, but, but we've created a space for women to collaborate in this way and I just, I would be curious to see whether or not Gloria feels that is that far enough. Is there what what more do we need to do, and I would just I would love to have her ear on that. Those are both so good. Okay. I think I would, I think I would ask her probably how she talked a lot about sort of the relationships that she had the relationships that she had with other women through this process that she was able to lean on and I would probably just ask her for her advice on how we can lean on each other effectively as women, like what that actually looks like what a real true definition of sisterhood is, because I think that that term is thrown around quite a bit, you know this sorority of women and whatnot, but there are, as I mentioned at the beginning of this there are complexities to being every kind of woman, right. It's not just to catch all we all experience very different things based on where we're from, based on our socio economic backgrounds based on our race our religion. And so I would ask her if there was some sort of common thread to sisterhood that would allow us to work together in a way that we could stop looking at each other I thought to meet your head on it so well for so long and so many different spaces sort of like, especially in male dominated ones it's like, you come around and you're like all right. Okay, like who are the women here that I can beat. And, and, and we've sort of just become accustomed to thinking, there's a very small piece of the pie for women. And so, what do we do to get our, our bite of that pie as opposed to understanding that there can be numerous pies made I think that men compete with each other in the same way that women do. So I would just really love to know she seemed to have worked so well with other women and leaned on them at various points in her life for various reasons and I would just love to know how she sort of supported and nurtured those relationships, because I do think that once we sort of find a common ground, again, it felt like in those videos and ladies I could be wrong but did it just feel like there was such broad representation and those old videos, like it was not like white women are fighting blah blah blah there was just every kind of woman old and young and every kind of race and background fighting together and it felt like this fight together and I don't know that we have that same energy anymore so I'd love to know how we can get back to that. I love that L I that's really such a good point speaking of women who influence us. I'd like to I'd like to know for you ladies, who is a woman that that really is your in one of your biggest influences. Maybe there's more than one but I will say it's my mother obviously it's, I think the closest example of the person I want to be. And at the same time, I'm one of three, and now I'm a mother of three, and half the time I just want to apologize to her and say I am sorry for this. Oh my god I respect you 1000 times more than I ever thought I could. And you know I'm a first generation Greek American, my parents are immigrants. They literally came to this country on a boat and said education is going to be the way that I get to the next level. So they worked hard, they got educated, and really started from nothing a true American dream story that for me is just irreplaceable that is my background and that's what I'm built on so obviously it's a part of me. I also look at my mother and saw, wow, she cooked every meal we ate cleaned our house worked full time did all these things and I used to just say wow that's amazing. I was sort of on the other end where I say that's amazing but God mom could you have outsourced something could you have done something else like I don't want to feel like I have to do everything and she really felt like she had. And I say thank God you know I can order out one night if we just have nothing in the house because I've been doing what I'm doing. And just those little things some little freedoms that I wish she had either allowed herself or maybe she didn't think it was what good Greek mothers did. So I just. I cut her a lot of slack. And at the same time I say thank goodness I have some of those little things to help me get by and be the professional be the mother that I can be. So, mom for sure. And happy Greek independence day. 100 years. Thank you so much. I'm so taken by what you said because mine, of course, everyone, you know your mom but mine is actually my grandmother, who came. My dad came when he was four from Ukraine and some first generation on his side, and her ability to overcome incredible adversity they fled Ukraine and their belongings and their family and got to Germany and spent four years in Germany she gave birth. And what was Yugoslavia to twins and I mean the story goes on and on I won't I won't elaborate on it I'm just saying the determination of this woman. Pushes me into a place where everything I want to do in my life whether it's being a mom or being an anchor or being a journalist or being a friend or being a wife is is got to come from a positive place because of her and if if I don't do that I feel like everything that was afforded to me because of this is for nothing. I take a great responsibility and that means it sounds like you do as well I think there's something really special about people that comes this country and make a life for their family because we're the ones that benefit from it, and we live great lives now because of it. Yeah it's a big responsibility to do something because of the ancestors before us who had to pave the way. Yeah, mine is my grandfather. His, his grandmother was born, you know, on a plantation and was a slave and then had a child who, you know, had a child who ended up being a Tuskegee airman, and my grandfather was a Tuskegee airman and he was an influence because I think a lot of times, our history, you know, black people's history is so ingrained in tragedy, and in having to overcome so much. And it was just a really cool reminder that like, despite that, we have black royalty you know my grandfather. When, when he was done he was a colonel, and he was Tuskegee airman and was a colonel in the Air Force. But then he, after he retired, he moved to Tuskegee and decided to teach aeronautical engineering to the next crop of black Air Force men and women and so it's, it's just a stark reminder that despite, you know, sort of how our journey in this country began. We, we have such a rich history and we have so many incredible stories and historical figures in our families it's not, you know, it wasn't always about first and I remember someone saying to me one time like when I was in college like oh are you first like college student and I was like, oh no honey and my family like a master's as a bachelor's like everyone do you know what I mean and it was, I sort of always had that confidence because I knew I came from despite their humble beginnings I came from like black royalty people who did so much for this country and we're, we're so proud and I had this amazing lineage of trailblazers and pioneers and it empowered me growing up to sort of embrace that aspect of my family and be proud of it so for sure my grandpa. I love that you ladies are knocking it out of the park with the answers my goodness so inspirational it really is we have a couple audience questions the first one was. What do you think Gloria would think of the me to movement. Kind of a tough one. Why did everyone forget about it. You know, I think she would wonder what and why isn't it in the news anymore. You know I think that's unfortunately some things that require big change are flashing the pan and we're on to the next headline and I think that's that's partially a media issue. And I think that she would say I don't know how far we are that we're in the place that we want to be with that. You know I think that we're still in we still you know Megan Rapinoe just went to the White House to talk about equal pay. And while that isn't exactly the me to movement we're still so as l pointed out we still have how are we in 2021 saying we should be paid the same as our male counterparts that are doing the exact same thing that we are doing like hard stop. Right, so how are we not further along when it comes to the discussions about the me to movement that that sort of fizzled off. That's what I would suspect. I would say that I'm intrigued by the fact that when someone does make an accusation. The burden of proof has sort of shifted it's not the burden on the person who says you know something happened to me. The burden is not just on them to prove that it happened. The burden is now on everyone around or on the organization that has been named to say okay well we're going to investigate now, instead of assuming that you're lying or that you're wrong. There's an assumption that well you know what we're going to investigate this we're taking it to the next level we're taking it seriously. So at least to hear when someone makes some kind of accusation that there's a conversation about let's look further into this and let's find out who the players are what might have happened even if it was 1020 years ago. When someone come forth and talk about things that happened decades ago and I think in some cases they're taken seriously. Is it in enough cases, I don't know, but I like the idea of the burden of proof shifting to the organization that's involved to look further to ask questions to do their due diligence, instead of sort of brushing off the accuser. I agree with both ladies it's sort of just become this like thing that it used to be it's funny when at the time we kept calling it like a movement. And I know that there is always a certain amount of. There's a certain amount of skepticism about how long things will be interesting to the public, there was certainly a lot of skepticism for black people this summer. When all of their white friends were texting them like what can I do to be a better ally and it was like, I wonder if this energy will be as prevalent when there's more distractions. When a couple of more things happen when another power couple breaks up like will you care when sports come back when you can go back to restaurants. Will you keep that same energy, or will you become a little bit jaded and I do think that we've we've gotten to the point now where yes like I sort of talked about it before. It feels like in many regards whenever someone asks for equality. It's now met with an eye roll it's here we go now here go the women. Now they want. Oh my God okay well last summer it was the blacks, and now it's the Asians I've literally heard people say these kinds of things and work environments like, like it's impossible to understand why for everyone, stealing from another sort of movement is up like how much longer do we need to wait for these things and how much longer do we need to stand idly by and sort of allow you to tell us when is the right time how much longer do we have to watch you move on. This is not a trend, me too should not be a trend, you know it shouldn't be like that's not what any of these things are about and so I think she would probably wonder to lens point why we haven't kept up that same energy. We should not stop using the hashtag it's sort of the interest in and the follow up is not there what have we seen because of the me to movement, where are we at. And I think it's, it's important sort of do it and accounting of where we are, where we are at with all of these things we do a lot of fact finding and searching you know I'm listening I'm discovering we're doing a lot of listening and discovering some action where are the actionable goals because at this point. How much longer do you need to listen and to start doing some fact finding we've been telling you for many, many years what the problem is, when are we going to see sort of those things turned into actual goals. Here's another question for everybody, ladies, thank you so much for this special seminar as the mother of four little girls. I want more than anything for them to know they're capable of being anything and anyone they want to be. What advice would you give young women as they enter the workforce on how to make the most of their time while at work, and how to best advance their careers careers while eventually balancing their family life at home. And this is from Katie Crawford when it was a former page with Dimitra and myself and women. A mom of four girls, everybody just hand on your back friend congratulations for being an amazing mom and even just to ask that question. I often say the only thing that has gotten me through motherhood is other females and other moms, and it's to both of your points when we've talked about the importance of the support system. If, if I did not have the women in my life. I'd be a terrible mom, I'd be a terrible journalist, they have held my hand walked me through and navigated this with me. And I think that's really the key for me at least has been to find a tribe. I mean into them rely on them, trust yourself when the mom guilt trickles in which it always does for everyone, continue to remember what it is that your purpose is which both of these amazing women have talked about tonight. Why they do this, not just so that their children see but they're damn good at it. And they're passionate about it you have your purpose and it's okay to have that it's okay to miss story time sometimes for your for your greater purpose. I would say to be authentic, there's only one you I mean it seems kind of cheesy and try to say lines like that but really that's what it is when you're entering the workforce. You're trying to navigate your way make a name for yourself trying to stand out, but just be you because if you go in with your set of skills with your personality with your gifts. Shining as a woman instead of sort of covering up the female side of it, just go show them who you are. Because that is going to be part of your superpower, knowing that no one else is going to fill the role like I do so that's something that I try to live with myself. And what I try to share most with my daughter because that's all there is you all you can do is be yourself. Those are both so good. So, in my daughter's room, I have a saying by Ella Baker, that says, be the light and we, and people will find the way. So, I am a big proponent of a sort of courting cliches it sounds sort of being the change that you hope to see so it really sort of touches on what Dimitra said in, and also what Lynn said as well. In finding a community in making sure that you can you can fight and be impassioned and emboldened and and bold and all of those things while still working actively to be a good person a thoughtful person to nurture relationships that's more important than nurturing, you know, lists on your resume like it's always been more important to me to be a good person than to just be a successful person so, you know, continue to shine shine and the best way that you know how unapologetically yourself, and allow the humanity and humility of others to help you along the way, understanding that you know none of us are in this alone and none of us are devoid of pain or tragedy in our lives. But if we continue to try and shine, even on days we don't feel like it. Absolutely we win one more question from the audience and then I'm going to ask a final question and then we are going to wrap it up for the night, because it is late and everybody needs to get home to their baby to. So, have you found that women in your industry judge your heart judge you harsher, similar to Freeman, how Freeman judge Gloria publicly. I personally have experienced and been so lucky to have the most incredible female colleagues I could ever ask for there were my some of my closest friends. They championed me I think Christie Paul who's one of my dearest friends she's the anchor of new day on the weekend at CNN. She's like be the woman who fixes your crown and doesn't let the rest of the world see it crooked and I think I've been blessed to have those kinds of women I mean even just to be with the two of you. I've been the one that's walked into the room and said there's there's room for all of us TV is a big world there's room for all of us at the table and when you get the job that I was up for you know I. I remember when she got it and I thought to myself, she definitely deserved it more than I did and she's better at this and this is a better job. And I just remember thinking to myself, oh my gosh, who would have thought 10 years later I'm interviewing her. And again I'm still championing her and I'm just I'm clapping for her and that's what we need to do as women I've had more than criticizing, especially my appearance and it really spoke to when I heard Gloria talk about how you are so defined by your appearance in journalism which is so disappointing I can work on a story and write something that I feel I've put my heart and soul into it only matters what I wore that day or if you know I look XYZ and that's been something that I've experienced so much more from men, clearly than I have from women. I look at the two of you women and I think, wow you are at the top of your industry. Even if I'm a little envious even if I'm a little jealous I'm going to use that as my fuel so instead of hating on you are wondering how did you get that job I'm going to say, you're amazing. What did you do in say that I can learn from so for me I'm always this sponge trying to soak in the goodness of everybody who is where they are because I'm thinking, you have something to give me so whether you know it or not. You're teaching me and I think that's what I try to take from seeing women and fantastic positions because, sure, as I mentioned before, you know, there's such a small slice of success. Most women are going to have to grapple for it because it's so small. So, what can we do at the top, it's to look around for me to look around and say, you have something, you're there because of this, I see it. That's what you do day after day, wait a minute you have this habit, you have something that I'm seeing over and over again there's a pattern there. And I'm just taking notes. So I'm trying to learn from all of it, because I'm happy for you. And even if I'm a little bit. Oh God, you know how am I going to get there and I and I have this bubbling feeling of a little jealousy well good that's going to fuel me. So hopefully seeing other people be great is just going to make me want it that much more. But Demetra because it's not about not necessarily having any of those feelings of insecurity or jealousy it's about how you channel it into a way that is productive and not, you know, harmful to you or the person who is the subject of your envy. Yeah, I would say that mostly my encounters are fantastic and we have such an amazing support group of women like I had a friend today who know I had a tough day last week and just on my way to work she knows that's what I'm on my way with her and she just texted me like she's also in this industry. You know what you're enough. You're doing great mama. If you know if no one else tells you this today. I'm so proud of you. And like I've mostly had those kinds of experiences in this industry of real true sort of sisterhood and community so I don't trust any woman that says things like I'm I'm more of a guys girl I don't really have a lot of girlfriends I'm like I don't trust you. I don't trust a woman that doesn't have woman friends no red flag. It's a red flag. I love it. All right, this is this is the last question so there's and Demetra touched on this a lot with her definition of feminist but there's been a lot of effort to demonize the word feminist. There's been a lot of effort to demonize the word feminist, I think that being a feminist means that you see the whole world, instead of half. It should not need a name. And one day, it won't. What do you think the word feminist me. I think that I wish it didn't have them in it right because that only associates it with women I think that men can be feminists to I think that I give an incredible shout out to my husband who supports me in ways that I could never even do anything. I think that's the definition in, and not, you know, you go. Good job, it's whatever you want to do you can do I remember once saying to him, you know, I don't even know what other skill set do I have he's like are you kidding you can do anything also the support system from your partner or other men is is as critical they're feminists to when they believe in you. That is, you know, I'm not saying you need it I'm just saying it's important to acknowledge there are so many men out there that are so proud of either the women that they're married to or that the women that they're related to and so I would just say let's take the fam out of feminist. I think when I consider feminism, it's, what are the men doing to be part of the equation so that full picture right not just half. I know many feminists were you know up in arms when Amy Coney Barrett was up for the Supreme Court and someone asked for something. I don't know something stupid about laundry or who does the laundry in your house or, you know something about, you know, kids and the family member and in the end it's, you know what, laundry is part of our household world. I don't mind if you ask me about laundry, as long as you ask my husband about laundry. And if you're talking to me about my next job and can I handle it because of my kids and how am I going to parent and work. I don't mind that question, as long as someone is going to ask my husband in an interview well how are you going to do all this, how are you going to have those three kids and work, because to me it's about the conversation, being the same for men, as it is for women. So I try to not be offended about what people ask me to me that's not oh like that's offensive to me that you would even go there well no life is life. You can ask me about it as long as you ask a man. It's fantastic I would just say just because they sort of said it all. I think feminism should be intersectional so I do think that it needs to be a cross spectrum, you know, to be feminist is to recognize not only not sameness but equality for men and women but for every single section and every single community because women have always been the backbone of this country the lifeblood that the conscious of the kind of this country. And so I would say that being a real feminist man or woman because lens right my husband is like a card carrying feminist means to support all groups and to try to use whatever platform power cashier cloud that you have to make sure you're advocating for equality for everyone. What a good note to end on you ladies are fantastic. I want to thank you. This was so oh my gosh Lynn Dimitri Courtney you guys are incredible this was really great and I feel super inspired. I hope that I'm going to ask you to all come back, especially when we're back in person. Yes, my house would be awesome have a conversation. Thank you everyone our wonderful audience for being here and for participating. Please be sure to stay connected with us on social media and visit our website. We are going to have this talk up on our YouTube channel in the next few days so for anyone who missed it, it will be available. Follow L and Lynn and Dimitri on their social media channels and like their Facebook pages and give them some love and thank you all for being part of this night happy birthday Gloria Steinem. Good night. Thanks everyone.