 Hi, welcome to the nursing school explain and this video in the nurse interview series. And today I'm here with Jim Gordon, who is a fabulous nurse actually now, not actively in patient care anymore, but he is here today to share his experience and his journey in nursing. So hi, Jim. Welcome. Hi. Good to see you. You have a wonderful view. Thank you. You. Thanks. Thanks. So how long have you been a nurse? I have been a nurse 13 years. This summer it'll be 14 years. Okay. Excellent. And how, how, tell me about that journey into your nursing career. You know, I tell the story, I never, I never had any plans of being a nurse. I wasn't that guy who was like, Oh man, I want to be a nurse. I want to help people. I stumbled into being a nurse. When I was in the military, my last career or my last job in my career in the military, I was teaching at the Naval Special Worker Center. And in between class cycles myself and a couple other instructors, we had to renew our EMT certificates. We went to Southwestern College down in San Diego and they had a, they probably still have a three week renew your EMT cert thing and we're going through that. And the instructor, he was a paramedic, a little older than I was, and he's just beaten up the class, just going through it one day really, really quick. And you know, slowed him down and he's like, What's going on? He's like, Oh, I got school tonight. And come to find out he was going to nursing school. And up until that point, you know, I, my plan for when I retired from the military, I figured I'd probably be a lifeguard, drive the bus at the zoo, you know, something like I never really had a big plan, but I spent, you know, he kind of planted the seed and I spent an honest six, six, seven months just researching. And I had no idea what, you know, I knew what nurses were, but I just didn't know all that was entailed in the job. And I spent a lot of time, like I said, maybe six or seven months researching. And finally just made the decision and started taking classes. And by the time I was, you know, fully retired from the Navy, I was a full time student, became a nurse, I worked at the only, I kind of limited myself. When I graduated school, I wanted to be an emergency department nurse. I knew that that environment would work well for me. I don't do well with a lot of free time on my hands. So I need, I need to kind of keep busy. And I like that environment. I like the autonomy of it. I like the kind of problem solving part of it. So I did, that was my big job. I did emergency department nursing. I did some casual relief trauma nurse team leader. For a while, I did an advanced access thing. I was doing midlines, you know, going around the hospital, putting in midlines and ultrasound guided lines, stuff like that. And now I'm a clinical instructor at College of the Redwoods and I love it. Amazing. Those students are lucky to have you. So what do you like most about being a clinical instructor? Well, I love it. I love that you get to be a part in everybody's kind of process and a part of everybody's journey. There's, you know, there's an old saying, you know, somebody asked you to help them with something. You know, we, in my family, we use it a lot. It's like, you want me to tell you what time it is or you want me to help you build a clock. And being a clinical instructor, you're helping, you know, 15 students at a time build their clock and teach them how to figure it out. You know, I could, I could get a job in somebody's emergency department and take care of four people. But if I take care of 15 students that are going to go out and be nurses and each one of them are taking care of four people. You know, that's, that's a significant impact. I enjoy that. And I like the teaching process. I like the, the give and take between the students and the faculty and then the staff at the hospital. It's a lot of fun. That's great. I have to agree with you. I feel the same way. You really feel that you're guiding them. And especially if you see the growth from the students from their first day. Yeah, maybe their first through their clinical ever. And then just by the end of the year, how they really come around and everything starts to click and then all of a sudden the light bulb goes off. It's just a really great feeling when that happens. Yeah, I love that. I love that. So with your, with your military background, I find sometimes that can be a stereotype out there that nursing is a profession, mostly for made for women. So you work in, in the Navy and special forces. What is your experience with that stereotype? Or have you experienced that and has it changed any from when you first graduated about 13 years ago to now? Oh yeah, absolutely. And it was a concern because not only was I in the Navy, but I was in a part of the Navy that did not have, you know, at the time. I just weren't even allowed to try out for what I did. And now that they're welcome to try, I don't think any successful made it but so. And before the Navy, I really have worked on tugboats and fishing boats and all these different kind of male, you know, dominant kind of gigs. And I did, I was kind of concerned about it and I just chose to ignore it just swim my own race. And when I got into clinicals, I started seeing a little bit of, you know, the typical places you'd expect, you know, being an older male student, my L and D rotation will be postpartum stuff like that. Some of the nurses didn't care, you know, go over here and you know there was the typical stuff you would tell any student or go do this go check that patient. No drama some, some of the staff nurses didn't dig the fact that I was there. My final externship, preceptorship, my last semester. I was at a hospital down in Chula Vista on the border. And in the emergency department. And it's great, great experience. But I was. It was a policy of that hospitals management at that time that males didn't put in female folies. It was kind of hard on all the female nurses because it's like if I have, you know, three patients need a foley, I have to go find some hey could you put in my holy for me. And I just found that kind of weird. Now, you know, as times gone on, you know, by the time I left my last emergency department job, and came up here, I really didn't see it that much at first, there was a lot of a, could you move my face, could you help me to lift a lot of. Hey, I need you to help me with more physical stuff. And I didn't mind, you know, you help where you can. But as time went on, you saw that less and less it wasn't hey let me go find the guy. It was let's just do it kind of isn't that big a deal anymore. And I see with my students now, you know, because I'm, I'm in their rooms with all of them and it's, you know, there's a right now I have two different cohorts, one of them has three men for 14 the other one has I'm just coming into my second week of the semesters and still kind of sorting out who's who in the zoo. And I don't see a lot of pushback, you know, it's kind of starting to equalize a little bit. And I think the the more experienced the nurses, the staff nurse or the established nurse in that unit. They kind of fall into two categories the one that really don't care what gender you are as long as you're doing your job. And the ones that kind of still maybe push back a little bit it's it's getting to be less and less. And then what about from from a patient perception of oh maybe you know I don't want a man to be my nurse or have you had any experience with that. You know, I have probably, I have no idea how many patients I have directly cared for in all these years. I can probably think of two times three times. And I don't even know that it was because I was a man I think it was more personality driven. And they might have said oh I want a woman can I have a woman help me with this. Now of course there are. There have been a couple times when I've had patients that were a little, you know, they wanted me to be their nurse they wanted me to start IV and give them ads and tell them a joke. But like for the EKG or foley or something like is there a woman that could help me I need to go to the bathroom or something like that. And with an older woman and I, you know, I appreciated that and I just wanted to make sure they were getting what they needed, but. Okay, so overall really not a whole lot of pushback that you've experienced. And what do you say to your male students when they take care of a female patient for example do you kind of prepare them that there might be some, you know something that comes up or do you just kind of let it go and then see where it takes you. You know, I really don't I just kind of let it go. And then whenever that because what I don't want to do is kind of bake the problem into the cake. You know, if I said hey when you go in there you might see this. And it seems like every time you do that they absolutely see it. So I just kind of wait till they come out so that won't she didn't want me talking to her. Okay, let's talk let's look at it from her point of view how old is she what's going on what did you say what did you do. You know, make it on a situational level as opposed to making it the systemic thing that all women are not going to want you to help because again that makes for a rough day for all the people around you. The, you know, that have to take up your slack or you have to take up their slack. And I find to I found over the last several years that we have a lot of male students coming in which I think is great. And it's such a great variety to especially you know we get a lot of different people with different backgrounds. So I'm learning a lot about cultural stuff, and about you know, male and nursing to and and I really actually enjoy that because there's a more, more, more mix of people because not only do we have different genders but different personalities and like you said I know you're the, you're the king you're telling jokes and making people laugh and all that and so everybody kind of has something else to bring to the table and so whether you're a female doesn't really matter. Now, now one thing that I did notice and it's, it's doesn't hold again none you know anytime you make general all generalizations including this one are typically false. The, the one thing is kind of a perspective thing on the point of the nursing student you know most guys come into nursing. And they look at it almost like they're a mechanic, you know there's a problem you fix it. There's an issue, find the root of it fix the problems. A lot of women come into it from a kind of a care caring, helping healing kind of you know oh you feel bad let me help you, and that involves these steps. And it sounds like kind of a subtle difference but it really kind of colors how we provide that actual care at the bedside. And you know, they both work you know I, they absolutely both get to the same place. You just need to kind of know yourself know what your perspective is and if it's not working with your patient and try something different, but a lot of a lot of younger male students sometimes you got to kind of like, so, what are you looking at is this a problem you're trying to fix or are you trying to kind of solve the whole situation. And that's really when you know the, the, the guidance of the clinical struck instructor I think is so important right because in the, in the very beginning the students they try to come up compartmentalize things they try to do like one step at a time, they go by the skills. Right. They like okay what do I do first and then what do I do second and third but really, you need to be able to look at the whole picture while nobody expected the second week in nursing school the first we just kind of want to see that growth that happens over time. Eventually, you'll, you'll, you'll kind of get that whole picture. So that's that I enjoy also. So what is what advice do you have for the students that might be graduating what that you wish you would have known as a new grad. Wow, there's a there's a lot there. I think what I if I had one thing that I wish I would have known it would have been more of what my trajectory would have been after nursing school, I didn't think much past graduating nursing school and getting a job. Like I said, this was a retirement gig whenever I got out of the Navy. And if I had a kind of seeing how things were going to progress and where I was going to go. I probably would have taken a month off and got right back into school and just continued getting further degrees and postgraduate degrees, whatever, while I was still in the habit of being a student, because that's a real easy habit to get out of. Man, it takes all of about 15 minutes to not have to write a paper anymore and you don't ever want to write them again. And I think I would have kept that going. The other thing that I always tell my students I told my precepties whenever I was precepting in the emergency department is that you are proud you are without a doubt. The most important patient you're ever going to neglect. You know you have to take care of yourself when the plane, you know when you're getting on the plane to fly someplace back whenever everybody was flying all the time. And the stewardess says you know what in the event that the cabin decompress is put the mask over your mouth first before you help the wife and kids. There's a reason for that. And if you're not taking care of yourself you're not going to be there to take care of your teammates and your patients, and you need. It's not an option it's not a nice to do it's not a, hey maybe if you have time, you need to make the time to take care of yourself. Sometimes when you're telling a 20 something year old that just got out of nursing school and is going to take over the world in a minute when you're telling them that kind of stuff it's kind of hard to impress upon, but it's important. What does the self care look like for you. Oh man, you know I live in the middle of a forest. And I spend as my I mean for me to walk out to the mail. It's a walk in the woods just to get to the mailbox. I spend a lot of time in the trees. I've got a zillion redwood trees. I've got a beach, you know, down, down the hill, not too far I spent a lot of time at the beach play a lot of guitar. I read meditate a little woodworking gig that I do just making cigar box guitars and just little things to kind of keep myself busy. There's a lot of nature involved there right. Oh yeah, we we moved up here for a reason I love we love it up here in the woods. That's amazing I like to emphasize that too because you know nursing school is really busy right and you just get so caught up between studying going to clinical prepping for this class doing that whatever there's just so there's not even not even enough time in to really do anything for yourself but self care like you said you know and you can't take care of anybody else unless you take care of yourself first. And absolutely, you know, like go around the block walk around the block for five minutes 10 minutes get that fresh air get some oxygen to the brain, and you'll feel refueled in no time so I like to impress upon that too. It's a wonderful surrounding that you have there with all those trees and stuff. I'm really envious looking out your window there. Good for you. And what, what is your most memorable patient interaction. Wow. I have had so many. I think it to you know there's all it's when you say memorable that can be positive that can be negative. The two that come to mind. I had someone it was and I, and what's funny is I can't remember you know you think about that. And I can't remember a lot about the first one I'm thinking about I can't remember a lot about the day it was a Saturday. I was precepting a great emergency department nurse. His name is Nick Brown. And we had a patient come back, you know, you're precepting. So the charge nurses always trying to find you good opportunities or you're kind of keeping one ear out towards the radio trying to find good opportunities to steer your preceptor into. And there was a stroke code coming. So we took it, and it turned out to be someone that was very close to me. That just totally blew me away when I found out who it was. And fortunately it had a pretty good outcome, you know, we still you know every year on the anniversary of that stroke you know still send a text and try and talk a little bit and so that was, that was a good outcome to a horrible situation the other one actually involved you. And I don't remember a lot about it. Yeah, you were on nights. And I relieved you one morning you had a patient that got CPR for a while. And return of spontaneous circulation all that stuff you turn the patient over to me. I was waiting for a unit bed and I see you bet. And the patient ended up needing a little more CPR. Finally got her over to the unit and in the emergency department. You know you know this as well as I do, but a lot of people may not. We've very, very, very seldom get to see the outcome. You know we might hear about it hey that patient that you had three weeks ago did you hear this. And so I remember it was probably about nine o'clock eight nine o'clock it was still early in the morning by the time we'd finished. Finally got the patient safely over to ICU. And into the day I can't remember anything about the day but into the day I had another unit patient. And I was really kind of frustrated because it's like 630 and I needed to get the patient over the unit and night shift wasn't coming out. I was like, I really don't want to do this I want to go home. So I take the patient over turn over and I'm talking with one of the nurses. And another ICU nurse came by and says hey did you see your patient from this morning. What do you mean. And the patient that you and I, she was in there eating sandwiches and just having a, and I was like oh my god. I expected them to be innovated and you know on drips for another day or so but she was eating and taking orals and I was like my god she's going to discharge. And I was like that was such a great experience I've never had that happen before. And that was really really yeah yeah pretty cool. Wow. Another life saved those are the stories that'll stay with you that's that's right. Yeah, that was that was pretty cool and then to, you know, we'd I'm sure that between the two of us we have done that same exact thing. I have no idea how many times, but to see the per you know talk to him and have a say wow you know sandwich tastes pretty good I didn't think I was going to get to eat anymore and I was like oh my god that was pretty cool. I enjoyed that. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah those stories, some of those will stick with you forever I definitely have those as well. So Jim any other words of wisdom for new nurses or people that are a nursing school. You know, all I can say is have fun with it. There are a million there are more nursing jobs out there than you can possibly imagine. And no one expects you to go down with a sink and ship you know if you're not happy in what you're doing, find another job, find another place in nursing that were in health care in general, that works for you. I've actually taken over a position as the director of the phlebotomy program up here. It's like not nursing but it's still health care related and it's you know there's there's plenty of opportunities for nurses. The other thing you know I would just say, you know, practice, you know, we get so wrapped around the axle about especially when they're still students and you know this is geared mostly towards students. And it's like you know practice doesn't make perfect practice makes permanent. When you start doing something over and over and over again, make sure you're doing it right make sure you have the right steps and you practice that perfect skill perfectly. And that's what's going to give you that muscle memory that's what's going to make things happen kind of automatically whenever the time comes and you need to kind of do that fine motor stuff but yeah practice doesn't make perfect it makes permanent. You always had a lot of good saying so I'm going to have to go back to the video and put that in the introduction all your little quotes that you put in there. All right, so thank you so much for joining me I really enjoyed this conversation thanks for sharing your work and your students are lucky to have you. Thanks so much. Thank you so much Petra thank you for what you do because like I said my students, they dig your videos and, and it's good good seeing you again nice talking with you. Absolutely thanks so much to have a good one. You too be well.