 We're still with Jeb Hallaby. Jeb, let me just propose the question that I wanted to ask you. Your initial impression of Johnson, did it change any in the course of the years? Probably it could only get better. I had maybe the liberal Kennedy impression of LBJ at first and was off put by his rugged style. But also there was real respect for his ableness, ability to get things done. We would send a memo over to Johnson recommending something like distance measuring equipment for the airports which were congregated too much in this river approach area. We never could get the bureaucracy to change its view of that, and they've gone ahead and rebuilt the terminal right in the same slot. I would have opted for Andrew's Air Force Base, but that would have raised the hackles of every congressman who thinks of it as his airport and his convenience. As you know, it's just across the street and across the river from Washington National Airport. As you know, also, not only have they officially named the Washington Airport not to be the capital airport, as I had proposed to actually got President Kennedy to approve that name. Then along came Reagan and changed it from Dulles to Reagan. They discarded the idea of converting the military airport at Andrew's, which was undoubtedly a stupid idea, but because it would outrage not only the eastern congressman, but every congressman. It's been said often that National Airport is one of the most unsafe airports in the country. Is that right? There is a last-minute sharp turn, which you may have noticed because you fly so much. You may have noticed that it is the last-minute turn low to the ground that is required on this river approach. Pilots detest that, but there is only one way into National Airport unless you are prepared to go south. Going south means more than just south and sharp turn back, but it means going miles out of the way and minutes out of the way for the airline schedules. It is a terrible mix-up for air traffic control, but they haven't had an accident, so therefore it is thought to be completely safe. I just didn't like the margin of error being reduced as much as that sharp turn to the final approach. Pilots are proud to be able to operate on it, the shuttle people in particular, but I didn't think it was a wise idea. A little while ago, Libby raised the question of your retirement, your leaving FAA. When you proposed leaving, did Johnson try to persuade you to stay? Yes, he did very intensively, I think largely because he didn't want to lose another best and brightest or Kennedy man unless he thinks that we are disassembling the administration. Did you have good relations with Bobby Kennedy? I had yes, but they weren't intimate ones. I remember that we used to walk dogs together in Montrose Park, whereas we lived 31st Street and P and we didn't have many occasions. We weren't part of the Bobby clique within the administration, but we were on a first name basis and I guess that was fairly frequent. I'll never forget his refusing to let me put the emphasis on the air traffic controllers whereby they were freed from the restrictions on their becoming a labor union. I felt that it proved to be true, unfortunately, where Eisenhower had to fire all air traffic controllers because they had violated some conspiracy charges and he suffered the results of that decision. The air traffic controllers are a bunch of cowboys and I say that with due respect for what a hell of a job they have, particularly at an airport like here or LaGuardia or O'Hare, but they're kind of a dissident group because they think they're underpaid and overworked. There's a certain amount of truth to that and it was very limited. I got two raises for traffic controllers while I was an FAA administrator, but they still were paid less than comparable employees in other parts of aviation and particularly compared with airline salaries. Also, I have the feeling, Bob, that I'm rambling on and staggering. Don't worry about it. I'll pull you back there. You can edit. Yeah, or anything like that. I think we've come pretty close to the end of it anyway, but I would like to ask you one final question. There's nothing to do with the past. There's nothing to do with Johnson. There's nothing to do with your experiences except I'd like to ask you this. You said several times that you were a Democrat. Are you still a Democrat? Yes. Still a liberal? Yes. There aren't many of you left. Us, I'd say. Not many of us left, are there? Well, there's one over there, but I think they're a rare and dangerous species. I think so too. And I don't know whether my right-wing fiscal Democrat is certainly our friend, the great lover. You mean Clinton? Clinton. You didn't recognize this? It's a little missed a great opportunity. I think he suffered more than anyone for personal behavior than I suppose. Well, JFK got away clean. Well, and so did Walter Jenkins. We were so embarrassed to find that he was playing around in the men's room at the airport. Was it all your fault? Well, we should have. I think it was the why, but that's okay. You can take the blame if you want to. Don't even bring up the current president, then you'll see really what a liberal he is. I mean, we have great difficulty with what's going on. Well, I think we all do. Since I do ask this question for my own curiosity of everybody that we talk to, do you think that President Bush has made the case for war yet? No, I certainly do not. I think it's his fatal mistake, lethal one, as well as fatal for him. I hope it is remembered back when people entering the toll booth, the election booth in 1994. I hope they remember that this decision was a stupid one and that I'm not sure they will because the voting record of Americans is so unbelievably miserable. They can't even go across the street to vote. They're not that interested. The answer to your question is that I consider myself a fiscal democrat and a liberal policymaker. For example, we had the opportunity to, what do you do when you change the unions? When you change the union? What do I brag about, darling, on the labor union role of the air traffic controllers? What was the question? What does he brag about, though? I made the mistake of going to get some more ice water, so I missed the flow of the conversation. Was it stopped up? It was stopped up. There's a dam in here. We're back on the air traffic controllers? Yes, but it relates to Bobby refusing to exempt the air traffic controllers from the directive issued by... A presidential directive? A presidential directive. Having to do with unions. They exempted the FBI and the CIA and everybody, but when I took up with Bobby getting the unions out of the labor management directive, he wouldn't have any part of it. And I kicked myself in the behind, hard to do, and I thought I should have taken it to the president himself. But I didn't realize to what extent Bobby was sort of the point man for the labor unions. Okay, I think that brings us to a very satisfactory close. Thank you very much, Gene.