 Good morning everyone and a very warm welcome to all of you who have joined us today as we chat with Wally Parsons on elevating road safety to a corporate and community priority. Now our webinar presenter today is joining us all the way from London where I'm sure you can appreciate it's very very very early in the morning so a warm welcome to Paul and thank you for your time in joining us at this very late hour for yourself. Now this webinar is a part of the National Road Safety Partnership Program or NRSPP webinar series and for those of you unaware the NRSPP has been established to provide a collaborative network for Australian business and organisations to help them create a positive road safety culture both internally and externally. It aims to help organisations of all sizes across all sectors to share and build road safety initiatives specific to their own workplace and beyond. It's delivered by ARB and funded primarily by a government coalition as well as ARB. For more information and tools like this webinar please refer to the NRSPP website. Now as I mentioned ladies and gentlemen our webinar presenter today representing Wally Parsons is Paul Cook. Now Paul is based in London as I mentioned and has over 25 years experience in HSE gained in industry sectors including oil and gas, mining, services and FMCG. Paul has been with Wally Parsons for over eight years having held roles at a local regional as well as a global level prior to taking up his current role in 2012. Now welcome Paul and before I hand over to you I'll just run through a few housekeeping items for those who haven't participated in our webinars before. Now we'll be aiming for about 30 minutes presentation time and we will be recording the webinar today ladies and gentlemen so there's no need to take the notes frantically. All of the presentation material as well as the recording will be sent to you once the webinar has concluded. My name is Angela Yohas and I'll be your webinar moderator today. So if you do experience any issues ladies and gentlemen please do get those through to me and I will surely assist. Now I draw your attention to your control panel where you will see a questions box and we ask that if you have questions for Paul along the way, please don't be shy, type them into that box and I'll address them all at the end of the presentation. Now without further ado I warmly welcome Paul Cook joining us from London. Paul how are you going today? I'm doing well thank you Angela and thanks very much for that introduction and thanks so much for everyone who's joined today and giving me the opportunity to to hear the Wally Parsons story on road safety as it is so far, bearing in mind that we certainly understand we're only pretty much at the start of our journey but have made some some good advances in the early running. Maybe just to set the scene though a little bit about Wally Parsons for those of you who don't know Wally Parsons, I know I certainly didn't when I joined eight years ago, but Wally Parsons is a top 100 AXS listed company by market capitalization and you know we work primarily within the energy resources sector so that's you know oil and gas mining, power generation infrastructure etc and we're active across a lot of different phases of project development for many customers so we are active in the engineering area and of course as you can see their procurement construction management and also our consulting and advisory services. We're geographically diverse operating in 43 different countries across the world. Currently we have around 35,000 employees but I will say that we have many many thousand more contractors who are very important in executing the work that we do. We have about a thousand vehicles or in excess of a thousand vehicles that that are either owned or leased by Wally Parsons but that would I believe understate the number of vehicles that we use and have access to markedly. We often use customer vehicles and of course you know higher vehicles taxis etc so we are highly exposed to road transport safety and all that comes with it. But really today's webinar what I really wanted to do was to you know share with you as I said you know our journey and invite questions at the end of the webinar about areas that may interest you but I guess to set the scene initially you know since certainly and before but since I joined Wally Parsons eight years ago we've worked really quite hard on on health safety and environment and our focus has been not solely but largely focused on the on project establishment construction activities, field activities that may be geo services and other people like that too. We've been focused on how to share our values and get the same kind of HSE performance from our contractors that we expect to ourselves and almost surprisingly it really hasn't been until the last couple of years that we've we've realized that we needed to dedicate a program and our initiatives specifically based on on road safety which over the you know the the last few years as we've spread across the world has actually become our number one safety risk. So some of the ways that we've done that is is what I'll be speaking to today but certainly one of the one of the underpinning methodologies is the UN decade of action and we are signatories and we we've adopted the five pillar approach which seems to sit very well with with our organization and and really what the webinar is about is today is for for me to try and explain the approach we've taken in in framing our program around the five pillars and and and also the the interesting blend we've had of trying to overlay a global program that is still relevant in local communities and workplaces and and I guess you know our story starts in a pretty sobering fashion and and it was in the period of 2011 and 12 that that we realized and saw tragically you know a personnel killed in five different countries around the world and and whilst some of these were not technically work related to the safety professionals in the audience today who may think in terms of statistics these may have fallen slightly outside of our statistical boundaries really made no difference because you know this was a tragic loss of human life of Wally Parsons people and that was simply unacceptable to our people and our company so our program started in earnest when the CEO signed the UN Compact in April 2011 and and you know it's not my role tonight to to explain in any great depth what the five pillars are you can see them there I hope on your screen but but what I will be doing is talking about how Wally Parsons has been active and and within each of the pillars and and what we've done and and you know just just you know to re-emphasize what a good framework it has been for us to work from not in not just in terms of what we've achieved internally but but also in communication with our our stakeholders such as our our customer partners and industry association etc. Okay so to to get into the into the meat of it let's have a look at what we've been doing in terms of implementing activities around each of the five pillars. So the first pillar of course is is road safety management and this is really where we had to to set out our stall and understand really what it was we expected from our operations globally not just Australia but of course wherever we operate around the world and there were two key documents and there were a lot of other materials guidelines and and flyers and booklets and all sorts of things to promote road safety have been developed but two key documents were the business travel policy being the type of organization we hardly do have people traveling all around the place on a daily daily basis and and we realized that apart from what was happening within the the normal locations of people work we will certainly didn't have the controls we desired when people traveled so we stipulated what we expected from higher cars behaviors and expectations around taxis and very keen in countries where there is high risk amongst public transport to ensure that our locations are vetted taxi or or higher car providers so that we we get the drivers that we want in the vehicles that are acceptable to us and we also made it clear that our our personnel who travel for business were empowered to take the safety measures that they needed to take in and that that that may mean that they do not need to take the cheapest higher car available in fact we actively discourage that and apply the end cap ratings to higher cars as well now but it's okay to send taxis away if you're uncertain ring the local management group and find out what is the best way of traveling before you before you leave so a big a big emphasis was placed on on business travel but far far and away the biggest thing we did was we set out our our objectives in the vehicle and driving standard so this was culturally a big change for us because it's one thing to have expectations for when you write them down and mandate them working in a global organization there can be repercussions it's not easy and and yet we we've proceeded so the kinds of things that were that that were stipulated in our driving and our vehicle and driving standard were the type of vehicles so we've mandated end cap five star rating vehicles for passenger vehicles and light commercial vehicles our journey management processes were ingrained into the way we do business it was and I'll speak a little bit about that later but the locations in which we operate around the world were allowed to do it differently but via risk assessment we determined which journeys would need to be monitored and measured from start to finish and and which local journeys could fall under a blanket arrangement so that was made clear our driver competency was was absolutely key and and also we established a set of nine key safe behaviors which I will talk to shortly pillar two our you know was really where we saw our our ability and the responsibility to to pull back something into the the the communities in which we operate and we saw ourselves as relatively uniquely positioned in terms of the engineering and technology capability we have in expertise to assist with with developing safer roads and and there were some very simple examples we were able to influence the design of pedestrian vehicle barriers on on city roads in places like Sofia in Bulgaria there were other examples that we were involved in pedestrian safety efforts in Australia and but far and away our our best example is the work we did with the IRAP organization which I will come to towards the end of tonight's presentation in terms of pillar three I've already mentioned the fact that we've we've opted for five star in-cap rated vehicles which it sounds sensible and eminently achievable in Australia but you do and we did hit some hurdles in in countries where vehicles like that were either very expensive or unavailable or simply the concept of in-cap five star wasn't you know just wasn't understood or recognized I feel that we've we've largely got over those hurdles or the vehicles within within our fleet some of the exceptions or or adaptions we need to make was where you know the in-cap program wasn't available in a certain country then we would use another country's in-cap rating as long as we could establish it was in fact the same model and maker vehicle that was under consideration so we did have to make some adjustments along the way to make sure that people could do the work they needed to do another big one in terms of safer vehicles was in-vehicle monitoring systems and again we we had to be quite clear about what those systems were capable of doing and and without being quite specific we we found that we were getting quite a large variation in what people were installing so again in some countries we asked them to install in-vehicle monitoring systems what they did was install trackers which was really only one of many driving behavior parameters we wanted to measure so the specification was very important we did go down a path of attempting sole source provider for us it wasn't achievable so as i mentioned we stuck to the specification and allowed allowed each location to purchase whatever device they needed as long as it could do the job that we asked it to do i think in terms of safer road users this has probably been the gem in our program today and we've got the most value out of developing what we've termed as the nine key safe behaviors and yeah i believe these have been quite pivotal in our success so far i guess what we recognize is we're such a diverse organization it's not possible to make you know rules for every condition or circumstance that a driver may find themselves in we operate in snow in Canada and we operate in sand in Saudi Arabia we operate on major freeways we also operate in places where there are no roads at all so we realized that there was something more than a you know than a regulation or a procedure we needed something that got more to to people's hearts and minds so we developed these nine key safe behaviors and for many of you looking at the slide at the moment you'll probably recognize them and say yep they're all they all look pretty standard and lots of organizations have them and indeed lots of organizations do have them but i guess the trick has been getting these adopted globally and you know they're some of the the challenges that we've had which i'll talk to in a in a further slide in this pack but but just for now i guess some of the things that that jumped out at me as we tried to implement these were avoiding unnecessary travel i mean for those of us who travel a lot that sounds like a luxury not a not a key safe behavior but you know we are like most companies we're very focused on our our customers we like to FaceTime with them we like FaceTime with our contractors and all and all of our business partners really but we had to sort of get off our operations and our company to take a step back and say hey look does this really need to be face-to-face do you really need to drive 300 kilometers to have an hour meeting only to drive 300 kilometers back that same evening is there a way we can journey management manage this better but more importantly do we really need to travel and whilst we don't have statistics on this at this stage my my intuition is we do have people using a lot more electronic means of communicating doesn't have to just be the phone but video conferences have taken root in our organization now and seem to be providing a good alternative in some circumstances to road travel not going through all of them as I said but some of the surprises we got was around seatbelts you would you would think you know being from Australia that seatbelts now are fairly routine and and vehicles have them and people use them certainly not the case in all of the places that we we operate and I did say I wouldn't pick out any particular countries this evening but I will say that it is not uniform and that's where we had the tension of local culture versus what company expectations were and I'll talk a little bit about how we've made some inroads into into making those changes and I guess another one that's important for us is a lot of the time we're not just drivers we're passengers and what we've done in our organization is empower our people to implement in all of these nine key safe behaviors and and that means as a passenger you're not you don't suddenly become mute and without an opinion or any rights once you get in a vehicle and we actively encourage our people when they are traveling as passengers to talk to the driver about what their expectations are don't get in vehicles that look unsafe and you know take ownership for their own safety when when they're not the person behind the wheel and in terms of the fourth pillar I think I also talked about our training in terms of our training we we are currently focused on our business travelers although our online training is available to our anyone who does it for the company gets a free license for a member of the family which is I think great but we do we do have training in I guess in two main guys there's one is an online offering so all business anyone who travels for business or drives I should say for business is required to do our online training program it is an off-the-shelf product called alert driving there are there are others we've found alert to be good in the time we've been using it it is you know what what the modern experience of online training online training is these days it's interactive it has lots of video and it also has local content which is important to us so if you're in Lagos Nigeria and you're doing your hazard perception training for online your online hazard perception training for driving you see a Nigerian road you don't see Australian road or an American road and and we're able to get that in all of all the countries we operate and that for us because has been a very good thing in terms of the content there's really three parts to it so it has a a first pass which introduces our our people to the requirements of our standard they then do the hazard perception training and the results of that automatically generates further modules on specific road risks that the driver really needs to focus on and then the final pillar of course is pillar five post crash response and and and really because we do work in some high-risk environments and have done for many years we're actually relatively good at responding to crises we have you know a group of people around the world highly trained to who lead us in our crisis then incident response but of course what they don't have is a crystal ball and we've found the absolute key for us in in terms of road safety is to know where people are and certainly in vehicle monitoring systems go a long way to to that where they're where they're wired into to live vehicle tracking and we have that in number of locations around the world but the whole journey management process has been key for us and and by risk assessment I mean we don't have journey management protocol for every single trip then but it's not an arbitrary decision either and we we we do a a macro level risk assessment if you like and from that we understand in a location by location project project scenario which journeys really do need to be the subject of journey management planning and which ones are just considered local run-around journeys and this has enabled us to know to know for high-risk journeys where our people are so this is again as an example of where we set a a standard but we let each location work out the intricacies for themselves and they've managed to do it in a number of different ways so in some parts of the world they're using a paper-based system they may have a journey management coordinator or several who are dedicated to do nothing but make sure people get from A to B in a safe fashion but then there are other parts of the world where it's an intranet service and yet other parts of the world where there is a journey management planning provider or vendor where it's primarily done by a telephone as by said an external provider we have examples of that in some of our major projects in Canada for example so where have we got to so far we recognize we've still got a long way to go and we'd be foolish if we thought otherwise but what we have seen since we started our program is a 36% reduction in motor vehicle crash rate which you know which is good and importantly we've also seen significantly fewer high potential road crashes so we're seeing both the reduction in the overall number of crashes but we're also seeing a reduction in the potential severity of those crashes and one of our challenges for the future also lies in these statistics because if I were to show you a breakdown of you know Wally Passer's employees versus our contractors versus our joint venture partners we're seeing that we've had perhaps predictably by far a greater impact on our own employees so we've seen a quite impressive rate of decline of road transport crashes amongst our people but we have not transferred that same success yet to our contractors and and that's part of our focus for future programs that we're already throwing around ideas about how to get clearer specifications into our tender documents for example and how to open up better dialogue with our contractors and and in many respects we take our lead from one of our major customers Shell who are particularly good at this and they've been terrific in helping us develop our program and one of the things I I think it's well worth anyone on this call who is looking at implementing their program is do things like you're doing today and listen to webinars go and talk to your your industry peers for example and see what they're doing because really I was with Shell just last week in London and and you know again thank them for you know they're pushing the boundaries out there and we're gratefully following in their footsteps it's a it's a huge advantage to have to partner with a company who are significantly more advanced in road safety than we are right now final thing I'll say about performance before I move on is we're also now seeing a significant increase in the number of off-the-job incidents being reported we do encourage that it teaches us an awful lot about the road conditions and the types of hazards that our people are facing locally so we feel at the moment by seeing more reporting of off-the-job incidents as a positive affirmation that our program is is gaining traction and people are listening it also fits well with our future programs which will be faced more based more around a 24-7 approach to road transport safety we we knew at the outset of this program we had to start somewhere and we chose to focus on our on our people who drive for work or travel for work but we recognize that it's a bigger picture that big picture than that we need to look at you know family and community and and we believe made some good steps down that track you know hasn't all been playing sailing that's for sure and and I guess some of the you know I could I could probably talk to you for three hours about the challenges we've had but I won't do that to you so I'll keep it to a higher level and and I've just sort of contemplated what have been our biggest challenges and without doubt the the communications protocol has been the most important our you know we we thought we were clever and you know and it was important to have our systems and procedures and standards that most organization have but quite frankly the nine key safe behaviors have been imminently more effective than all of those many pages and and the reason that is is because they do transcend language and they do transcend culture that they are that they're easy to get a communication about one of them or all of them out and and they're really pivotal in getting our executive buy in it was something that they could adopt quickly and easily and participate in so you know we've made videos explaining our key safe behaviors that have used our executive management equally we've made videos using local people so and people who have had personal experiences so we've had people from Kazakhstan where you saw earlier we had a you know a tragic bus fatality people in Trinidad who have had similar experiences people have had positive experiences from Canada and Australia and Indonesia so we were able to to pull together and include all of the different cultures and geographical areas we're working into the program which has added a little bit to its success. I mentioned at the start though we do have this tension between company culture and expectations versus local and this is where we've found that whilst it's great to have executive CEO involvement preaching the message they are those kind of people are still very remote from day-to-day activities in a in a far flung country and that's where the local leadership are absolutely pivotal that they engage and they drive home the message to their local people the education process has been really important it seems odd but in some countries and cultures the wearing of the seatbelt is is just a foreign concept and you really do need to take it from first principles and and you know explain to people that wearing a seatbelt may be the difference between life and death and and sadly we've had examples in in various parts of the world where we've had crew buses crash and quite literally those with seatbelts have lived and those who haven't worn them have died and and you know explaining the what's in it for me is has been absolutely key in local areas and I think also really importantly we've had to have consequences and that sounds a bit ominous they're not always bad in fact usually they're good and and again in Kazakhstan we have a really I think it's an impressive program of driver reward program we're based on the in-vehicle monitoring statistics the best drivers ever rewarded it's a small reward but but it's every month and it and it maintains in our program which is probably the the final challenge that I wanted to mention today is is maintaining um that momentum in your program I've already mentioned Shell who I think do a fantastic job of their road safety program you know they're more than 12 years into their program and they're still developing it they're still looking for the next horizon and and you know that's what we need to do and and Wally Parsons is probably known for its entrepreneurial and innovative culture which means people get bored with stuff really quite quickly so um you know we can't have the same road transport safety program next year as we had this year yes we can't forget the principles but we we have to keep moving and keep refreshing and and um it's just incredibly important for us and I'm sure it is for the organizations that other people are on on this webinar in terms of I did say I wanted to come back to a good news story to sort of finish the the talking part of this and allow to open up to to any questions there may be but you know as I said we've been largely focused on our business travelers and our people who drive for for workers of day-to-day activity but we haven't forgotten it's a bigger picture and we do have a community focus and this particular effort is is one that I think is you know sits well with you know the sponsors of this webinar and and generally what Wally Parsons is about in terms of the broader community but in partnership with with iRap we were able to you know take a look at their you know well respected tested and internationally recognized road assessment process and and and make some augmentations to that so what we were able to do was transfer that concept onto low-cost tablets and by using some technology of GPS and cameras we were able to get a tool which is pretty simple to use on an iPad or similar be used out in situ on the roads and it basically meant that assessments could be done a lot more effectively and a lot and a lot quicker so we beta tested the devices and thought they work pretty well now we went to a pilot in last year in South Africa so you know as sponsors of the Road Safety Fund Safer Schools program we thought we would take our you know the iRap tool that we'd helped augment to South Africa and we were able to successfully pilot the device around some schools in Cape Town and you know this gives us great hope because obviously in South Africa for those of you who've been there the roads are not at all the safest places that you'll find but there's a lot of them that need help and obviously no government can afford to fix all roads at once so this tool helps i think enormously in allowing local local governments to profile their roads and make sure that they you know they spend wisely when they're when they're looking at their road transport safety budgets so it's still early days but for me it was a you know a great initiative that that i think we can be proud of and something that looked beyond just our company employees but the community in that in general so that's a pretty quick run through the Wally proxies program as it currently stands and as i i've said a couple of times now we we appreciate where where you know only towards the start of the journey not not the end but we feel we've made a positive start and we're more than happy to show you drop down there for a second but i will take this opportunity and who have joined us today and i encourage you to send any questions through if you have any for paul and we'll get those through to him and i did want to mention at this point as well that our webinar today as well as many others has been sponsored by Safe Work Australia and we thank them for their ongoing involvement and support of the NRSPP and our webinar program so a big thank you to them now we have had a couple of questions and before i get to those i'd just like to firstly thank you for sharing your story with us instigating change and managing that change in any organization is a mammoth effort and i know that you know with anything i've i've tried to do it it's very difficult to get people on board even if the benefits are quite obvious um and we have had a lot of questions relating to the challenges that you're faced in and how you've overcome those um so could you tell us a little bit more about some of the biggest challenges and how you've overcome those sure well i guess one of the things is that we need to be honest with ourselves uh we're we're everyone has seen what's happening with the oil price uh you know since the global financial crisis money has been a paramount issue so it would be full hearty to pretend that even with such a critical program as road safety is that there's infinite funds available to deal with it and one of the absolute critical parts of our program has been to demonstrate the value that our land trans safe land transport safety program can bring and we had to be reasonably sophisticated in the way we did that and it was probably something as hse practitioners we didn't necessarily anticipate so along with the you know the obvious preservation of human life which is infinitely important um we were able to to show environmental benefit um uh running costs of vehicle benefit and and and really um having a rock solid uh basis for the program to begin with uh was a big challenge to get that accepted because we knew it was going to be a multi-million uh program and would be over over several years so we certainly found that um a challenge because without that you can't even get out of the gate let's let's be honest um probably the biggest challenge we've got right now is um influencing our contractors as i mentioned uh you know the woolly passes people they work for you they're obliged to follow your processes although you know it's not a big stick activity it's more an encouragement and education communication program but by getting those people who are one step removed from us our our contractors on board it still is our biggest uh challenge and we're having some success um but again i i think i've mentioned them a couple times tonight uh shell by taking a leaf out of shell's book i mean they are they constantly have the door open and um you know i'm in i'm in contact with their their road safety special yeah sorry i missed the end of that um i hope our audience did hear it though um we had a little drop out there um i'll move to another question though um this is an interesting one um there are some countries where finding good drivers with the hsc training experience mentality um is difficult some projects and companies do not allow expert driving outside at the project site or even sorry um or even at the site how do you manage and balance this uh condition or challenge yeah we we we face exactly that and basically we have a a relatively sophisticated risk management process that that helps us decide that um to to be honest we have um really the um we make that decision most often not exclusively but most often on a security basis and it's not so much that the drivers are incompetent to drive on roads it's more um the consequences of an accident and uh you know whether they'll be misappropriated by people who appear to be police officers and there could be dire consequences of being a novice in country so so we make that decision very early uh in our mobilization process around yes this is a place it's been drive or or no it can't but it's a it's not a blanket van by any means so you know if you're going to countries like austria us uk you could certainly drive as an expat um but you know nigeria kazakhstan uh not so much so it's it to answer the question we we we base it on uh an assessment of risk of the project or location um development onset great and another question here from peter thank you peter for getting that through so the question is what's the program is still evolving in driving home the program and key safe behaviors has woolly parson's addressed matters of non-compliance with staff and contractors yeah we have um and to be honest we've we've allowed that to evolve slightly differently in different jurisdictions but but most um most locations now are moving towards a adjust culture model so it's a similar uh method that that is used for other hsc non-discretions that's it's kind of based on james reason's culpability model whereby it's quite simply um you know did the individual how severe was the transgression and could could how much could the individual have done to prevent it so we we we don't have a three strikes in your out approach whatsoever it's uh it's more uh as i mentioned just just culture and how how culpable was the individual how uh how much were they able to influence the behavior of the outcome with it great thank you for that question and uh david has a question as well and david's asking do you play an advocacy role for road safety with governments or civil society organizations not not really i mean we we we are involved through our corporate social responsibility program which is itself quite quite new um with a few selected NGOs um and and we have a process by which those those are uh are vetted and approved there's only three or four themes that we currently have on the go in CSR and road safety is is number one actually um so so we we're active in some some areas but but i wouldn't say uh over this all right and a couple of um great uh little comments have come through here um gerome's saying what a fantastic initiative warley passons should be very proud great example of a corporate citizen so thank you for that comment and another comment here from edward who said more of a comment i like the idea of organizations utilizing teleconferencing and video conferencing over long distance travel to save on travel which i agree is a brilliant initiative and um we we have a question here that sort of relates to earlier on in the the webinar when you were talking about the ANCAP safety standards and so forth so the question reads do you uh you mentioned higher cars um what was the ANCAP safety standard warley passons expected and did this actually occur in the field yeah it's um we initially started with a four star rating um you know which is a pretty good standard of vehicle and it prevents a lot of significant injuries but we have moved it to five star as um we found that that vehicles were becoming the five star vehicles becoming more and more available so what we did see in the early days was a real um a lack of utility vehicles that were available in five star in cap rating and that has has largely resolved there's there's a lot more of those vehicles now so uh yeah we've we've moved the five star in cap rating and and that's what we expect to see in the field and that's uh that's enshrined in our business travel policy excellent well we might take one more question before we finish up our webinar for today and of course um Paul's details are there on the screen in front of you and they'll be sent out in email or so so if questions do come to mind once the webinar has concluded i'm sure Paul would be happy to hear from you and address those after the webinar um one more question here so this one's from Justin and it reads you mentioned using telematics to reward drivers what behavior um what behaviors are you looking for which um you recognize yeah really it's consistency across uh you know the week i think it is we're measuring in kazakhstan for example other other locations use um you know different time periods but uh it's a combination of um you know not speeding um staying within geo fencing areas where where they're provided uh you know harsh breaking is measured harsh acceleration is measured and and these parameters i should add this is where it gets a little technical and almost beyond me uh but we do set those parameters slightly differently based on uh locations because those of you have driven in bangkok for example know that if you're not standing on your brakes pretty regularly you're just going to go into the back of the car in front so so parameters are set i guess what to say yeah the parameters are set uh locally um but the uh the the actual uh style of driving we expect is is is global so we will always measure harsh breaking harsh accelerating speeding uh over revving of the engine and staying within geo fencing where it's um uh where it's appropriate so right yeah so they're the things that we we we look to reward and as i said the rewards are are small um and and often i should also say uh these all roll up into a monthly score so uh it's usually out of a hundred and you know people who get between 98 and 100 may get something and it might be something as small as a certificate uh sometimes it's of no monetary value it's just of uh they get their picture in the uh in the in the local newsletter shaking hands with the the local director and that's that's reward enough in many locations absolutely i think um you know just that acknowledgement is is definitely reward enough that it doesn't have to be about you know an expensive gift or prize or anything like that that um they're just a acknowledgement of that of that good behavior all right paul i thank you so so very much for staying up late or rather into the early hours of the morning over there in london time to deliver this webinar for us and to share the warly parson's experience with our audience here today and just on that once again our sponsor today for today's webinar as well as the other nrspp webinars is safe work australian we thank them again also for their they're working alongside us if anyone does have any questions that we have run out of time to address today please feel free to get in touch with us after the webinar and i'm sure paul would be more than happy to chat with you thereafter thank you again paul and thank you everyone for your time today hope you can join us for future webinars have a nice day