 Mongolia achieved its independence from China. No simple task. If you look at China's moves, you know, they're aggressive. They're territorial. Look at Taiwan. Look at Hong Kong. Look at Tibet. But somehow Mongolia has come out ahead on that. Well, welcome to the show, Ralph. It's so nice to see you. Glad to be on with you, Jay. So let's talk about why. Well, I was fortunate to be able to visit the country of Mongolia back in 2005 when I worked for a boutique trade law firm that had a rep office in China. And the clients at the time thought they might want to relocate their forging factory operation from China into Mongolia. So I got an opportunity to go to Mongolia and get the lay of the land and make a final determination if that was going to be something viable for the client. Let me guess, Ralph, you thought it would be viable because Mongolia does have sovereignty, which is really important, no? They do have sovereignty, but the tax breaks and other incentives that they were supposedly going to provide are not what the client wanted at the time. That's over 15 years ago. But things are changing. So Mongolia is a significant country, as we know, bordered by China and Russia. The Mongolian people are the descendants of Genghis Khan. Mongolia has a glorious history and possesses strategic mineral resources. Throughout history, the Qing empire of China always considered this region as part of China's hegemony. Due to a series of historical events, Mongolia successfully achieved its independence from China in 1945. In order to clearly understand the status quo in Mongolia today, we have to explore the reasons that caused Mongolia to achieve its independence from a historical context. Historically, when we analyze a nation's independence, we pay more attention to domestic factors. However, when analyzing Mongolia's independence movement through the various bargains made between China and Russia, a new historic perspective emerges. The first historical period occurred in the late 19th century up until 1911. In this period, our report analyzes the origin of Russia's intervention in the region, which we now call Mongolia, as well as how the Qing government mishandled its policy towards the Mongolian people. This caused the Mongolian people to become gradually dissatisfied with how the Qing empire ruled the country. In 1911, the Qing dynasty was overthrown during the Xinhai Revolution. Russia seized this opportunity to provide Mongolia financial assistance and military support so that Mongolians could launch the first step towards seeking independence. The second historical period impacting Mongolia's independence started in 1912 and concluded in the late 1920s. And during this time period, China reasserted its domination over Mongolia. However, the Chinese civil war, which broke out after Yuan Shikai's death in 1916, severely hampered the ability of the Chinese government to exert its control over Mongolia. But that was a lucky break for Mongolia. Correct, it was. What happened was Chinese troops were forcibly withdrawn from Mongolia after the defeat by the White Russian army in 1919. With the assistance of the Soviet Union, a small group of Mongolian revolutionaries seized power in Mongolia and established the new regime that Mongolia was under the direct control of both the Russians and Mongolians. And the third historical period began in 1945 and ended in 1946. And as you'll see, I find this one the most fascinating. During this period, the Yalta conference directly addressed the issue of the sovereignty of Mongolia and recognized that China no longer had control over Mongolia. In this report, this was really important. Also a lucky break that Yalta would have acknowledged and confirmed that. Without that, who knows where we would be today. Exactly, because Mongolia, you don't think of it as a major historical power, but it's in the center of China and Russia, it has strategic mineral resources that make it very viable for the Soviet Union, for the United States, for China and also for the Japanese. And people forget the Japanese had not been defeated. It was taking another at least eight months for that to happen. In order to understand the process leading to Mongolia's independence, you have to introduce the historical background of the Sino-Mongolian relations during the Qing dynasty. Before the Qing dynasty was formally established in 1644, the geographic proximity enabled the Manchurians who wielded unlimited power during the Qing dynasty to have deep interactions with the Mongolian people. In 1619, the Manchurians fought with the Mongolian tribes against the Ming Empire. The first ruler of the Qing Empire, Nirhasi, established a formal alliance with one of the Mongolian tribes called Kalka. With the assistance of Kalka, Nirhasi conquered one of the important cities of the Ming dynasty called Shenyang. In the process of conquering the Ming Empire, the Manchurian alliance with the Mongolians made huge contributions to winning the war against the Ming Empire. After the Manchurians achieved several victories in their battle again with the Ming Empire, the Manchurian regime was steadily stabilized. In the meantime, the Manchurian elites realized that without subjugating the Mongolians, they could not properly invade mainland China. Furthermore, after the beginning of the 17th century, the Mongolian Empire was split into several princedoms, which were each hostile to each other. The Manchurians then decided to provoke internal conflicts against these princedoms. In 1632, under the leadership of Nirhasi's descendant Abahai, Manchurians initiated various attacks on Mongolians. Mongolia's leader at the time, Lingden Khan, was defeated by the Manchurians in 1634. He fled to Shanghai province afterwards. Following this victory, most of the Mongolian princedoms were conquered by the Manchurians. However, conflicts still ensued among the remaining princedoms. And not until 1691 was the Chinese emperor recognized as the great Khan by the Mongolians. This occurred after the Qing Empire responded to a request from the Kalko regime and were then defeated by Galdin Boschke. Afterwards, the whole Mongolian region was formally annexed under the control of the Qing Empire. So there you have a country that's been between Russia and China. It's near Manchuria. It's landlocked. It so easily could be swept into one or the other of those countries. And somehow they managed to preserve themselves as a separate sovereignty. That is remarkable. It absolutely is. Right. After Mongolia formally merged with the Chinese Empire in order to strengthen Chinese domination, what the Chinese government did is they granted a series of privileges to Mongolian nobles. This included allowing Chinese princesses to marry Mongolian elites, giving Mongolians tremendous economic benefits and protecting the religious rights of monks in Mongolia as a way to preserve Mongolia's independence. Before the Russian Empire expanded its sphere of influence to East Asia, the reign of the Qing Empire in Mongolia was peaceful and stable. From the late 19th century to 1911, Russia's intervention in the collapse of the Qing Empire is the next segment. In 1842, after the Qing Empire was defeated by the British in the First Opium War, China started undergoing what is called the Century of Humiliation. China lost a series of wars against other great powers. During this period, the world's great powers forced China to sign many unequal treaties, which severely weakened the reign of the Qing Empire, especially along its border areas. Due to the weakening of the Qing Empire, Russia began to expand its sphere of influence in Mongolia and attempted to take the area out of China's control. This became one of the major factors in the push towards Mongolia's independence. By signing a series of unequal treaties with Beijing, the Russian Empire achieved many commercial and economic benefits in Mongolia. For example, in 1860, China and Russia signed the Treaty of Beijing. According to this treaty, Russia was allowed access to extensive commercial privileges and trading opportunities in Mongolia. That all goes to a racial point too, it seems like to me. Here you have Mongolia, which is sandwiched between China and the Chinese and Russia and the Russians. And with all this trade back and forth and into marriage, what have you, you have a community that is a combination of both. And so if you look at the average Mongolian, he or she is not necessarily Chinese and not necessarily Russian, but a combination, am I right? You're right. There ended up being a lot of that intermarriage, especially after Russia was allowed to establish a consulate in Kunlun City, which provided Russian opportunity to engage in ironically spy related activities in the region. In 1862, China and Russia then signed the Sino-Russian Overland Trade Charter. Through this charter, Russia was granted the privilege of engaging business activities in Mongolia without the imposition of any tariffs. As a result, this privilege allowed Russia to expand its influence in Mongolia by utilizing its economic status most efficiently. The Russia also enlarged its sphere of influence in Mongolia by enhancing its relationship with Mongolia's upper class and established extensive bribery related networks. That also included the intermarriage aspect of this as well. When the leader of Mongolia, and forgive me, I may butcher his name, it's Jeb Uzan Damba. The leading monarch was still a child. The Russian council often presented gifts to him, which served to cultivate Jeb Uzan Banda as a friend and ally of Russia. Based on this close relationship that Mongolian leadership had with Russia, the Mongolian government always promoted a positive image of Russia and directly conveyed pro-Russian sentiments to the Mongolian people. Over a period of time with Russia's assistance, the Mongolian leaders sought autonomy and then established a regime that was favorable to Russia. Furthermore, a major mistake of the Qing Empire was to move a significant number of Han Chinese to Mongolia and then reduce the privileges previously afforded to the Mongolian elites. This accelerated disengagement of Mongolia from China. When the Qing Empire was established, the Chinese government was highly focused on maintaining a stable relationship with the Mongolian elites. However, following incursions from other countries, Chinese economic growth rapidly deteriorated. So as a result, the Chinese government not only reduced many of Mongolia's economic benefits, but also extracted more wealth from the region. In the late 19th century, except for the general excise taxes, the Chinese government also forcibly collected more cattle, sheep, and tobacco from Mongolia to improve Beijing's financial situation. So this created an honorous burden on the Mongolians. And the Chinese government also forced the Mongolian ruling class to pay back the debt that Mongolia owed to China. This forced the ruling class to impose stringent economic measures on the Mongolian people. And these harsh economic measures led to increase animosity and hostility between Mongolia and China. So in order to improve economic growth, the Chinese government started encouraging many Han Chinese to move to Mongolia to reclaim the cultivated land. Mongolians are nomadic people, they're herders. And so this caused several regions of Mongolia to become farming areas. The Mongolians felt their living areas were shrinking by this policy imposed on them by the Chinese government. And the Chinese government also set up special zones for Han Chinese in Mongolia under the direct jurisdiction of the central government that would be taxed by Beijing directly. So they got various preferential economic benefits through these zones. Thus economic benefits of the Mongolian ruling class ended up being impaired. Jebu Zan Banda expressed these complaints of the Mongolian people to Beijing directly. Most Mongolians felt that the Qing Empire was trying to destroy the traditional way of living of the Mongolian people and thereby depriving the Mongolians of their autonomy and sovereignty. All of these disparate factors led to the determination of the Mongolians to seek, to separate from China and seek independence. In the early 20th century, due to a series of rebellions, the Qing government had to utilize more resources to suppress the revolutions. In 1911, following the Qing high revolution, several southern provinces in China claimed independence from the Qing Empire, which distracted the Chinese from recognizing the internal animosity within Mongolia towards Chinese rule. Consequently, the Mongolian ruling class began to seek active independence from China while the Qing government, Qing Empire, spiraled it down. Russia also realized that this would be a great opportunity to get Mongolia out of China's control during this turbulent time during the Qing high revolution. After the outbreak of the Qing high revolution, the Russian foreign minister to China immediately delivered a message to the Mongolian ruling class that due to the internal unrest in China, it was the right time for Mongolia to seek independence. Russia then privately aided Mongolia's opposition to the Qing Empire. In the spring of 1911, the Mongolian ruling class delivered a letter to St. Petersburg specifically asking for arms and economic assistance against potential Chinese military intervention aimed at suppressing Mongolia's independence. In exchange, Mongolia agreed to grant Russia very significant economic interest in the country. Following the Wu Chang uprising of 1911 under the leadership of Jeb, Jebsoom, Damba, Toghs, Orcherin, Nam, Nonsurin, and other Mongolian nobles, a provincial government was established in November of 1911. Mongolia was controlled by this new provincial government. After the defeat of the Qing Empire by the Chinese revolutionary forces, the Qing army, which was stationed in Mongolia, didn't launch any large military operations in reaction to the establishment of the provincial government. Simultaneously, senior army officials of the Qing government, which were stationed in Mongolia peacefully withdrew from the region. As a result, on December 1, 1911, the provincial government issued a general proclamation of independence. The Shanghai rebellion accelerated the collapse of the Qing Empire, so Mongolians decided to establish a new nation based on Mongolian traditional values. Simultaneously, Jebsoom, Damba, Kutku was installed as the Boga Khan, basically the ruling leader of Mongolia. From 1912 to 1920s, we'll look at the power bargain of Mongolia between China and Russia. 1912, the Qing Empire was replaced by the new Chinese regime, the Republic of China. Even though the Mongolians claimed their independence, the new Chinese government refused to recognize the sovereignty of the Boga Khan regime. One of the political ambitions of the President of the Republic of China, Zeng Zhang Shen, was building a harmonious country among the five major Chinese ethnic groups. Mongolia was an indispensable part of this plan. In order to ensure Mongolia was an indivisible part of China, the Chinese government made several political statements to exercise its sovereignty over the region. In 1912, Russia sent its Chinese ambassador to China to negotiate the issue of Mongolia's autonomy. The Chinese government not only refused Russia's proposal, but also emphasized that the Mongolian issue was solely part of China's domestic affairs and should not be interfered with by any foreign power. Does this sound like some of the things they do in Hong Kong and Taiwan and Tibet? I mean, it's the same kind of manifest destiny thing. Well, China is very conscious of their sphere of influence and they make it known that these are China's internal affairs and they don't want any interference. Oh, recovering from the century of humiliation. Yes, yes. I mean, they're starting to slowly recover at this point. But in August of 1912, the Chinese government proclaimed the regulations on the treatment in Mongolia. According to these regulations, the new Chinese government would grant the Mongolian ruling class more economic interests, but the sovereignty of Mongolia would not be recognized. While China was seeking to reintegrate Mongolia through a policy of appeasement, it also planned to take back Mongolia by force if necessary. However, due to concerns of a potential Russian threat, the new regime dared not to engage in any kind of military action. Initially, Russia refused to recognize Mongolia as an independent country because of possible interests that other countries had in China, including and especially Japan. Nevertheless, in 1912, after Russia signed the secret treaty with Japan that guaranteed Russia's interests in Mongolia, Russia and Mongolia signed the Russia-Mongol Treaty in November, which granted Russia a series of commercial rights, as well as Russia's right to intervene in Mongolian politics. The Chinese were annoyed and upset by this treaty. In order to oppose Russia's expansion into Mongolia, the Chinese government started to openly oppose Russian commodities trading and then accused Russia of violating Chinese sovereignty. Nevertheless, in 1913, a series of internal conflicts broke out within the Chinese government. Based on the situation, Russia directly contacted one of the Chinese most powerful leaders, Yuan Shikai. Russia promised Yuan that St. Petersburg could recognize Yuan's legitimacy as a ruler of China and would give him economic assistance in order to win this particularly important power bargain. However, in exchange, Yuan's regime needed to recognize Russia's economic interests in Mongolia. Yuan Shikai decided to accept Russia's offer. Therefore, in November of 1912, the Chinese government of Yuan Shikai and Russia signed the Sino-Russia Statement. This treaty recognized China's nominal sovereignty over Mongolia. However, the Chinese government had to respect the Russia-Mongol Treaty of 1912 and recognize the autonomy of Mongolia. Through signing the treaty, the Chinese government paid more attention to their internal power structure within China. During World War I and the Bolshevik Revolution of Russia, the Chinese government seized the opportunity at that point to take back Mongolia. In 1918, while Russia was engaged in civil war, the Chinese government dispatched General Zhu Zhejiang to lead an army into Mongolia. Without Russia's assistance, the Boga Khan's regime realized that they could not stop the Chinese army on their own, so the Mongolian government had to acquiesce to the Chinese army entering Kulun. In December of 1919, the Chinese government held a negotiation regarding the cancelling of Mongolia's autonomy in Kulun. During this discussion, the Mongolian parliament insisted on keeping autonomy rights. However, the Chinese government threatened Mongolia with force, so in November 1919, the Boga Khan approved the treaty, abandoning Mongolia's autonomy. However, after only one year after the Chinese government regained control over Mongolia, China once again lost effective control. After Yuan Shikai's death in 1916, mainland China was falling again into a civil war among its various warlords. When the war broke out, General Zhu Zhejiang had to pull most of his forces out of Mongolia. Only 3,000 Chinese troops stayed in Kulun under the leadership of Zhu Zhejiang and Gao Zaitian. Concurrently in 1920, a small contingent of forces controlled by the white Russian military under the leadership of Semyonov, Unger, Sternberg, and several Japanese military advisors crossed into Mongolia. With financial and military support from Japan, Semyonov and Ungberg were seeking to establish a new regime in Mongolia to fight against the Red Army. From December 1920 to February 1921, a sequence of fierce conflicts broke out between Chinese troops and the Russian White Army in Kulun. Since the White Army had superior weaponry and troops compared to the Chinese, the Chinese army was easily defeated. The remaining Chinese forces had to withdraw from Mongolia shortly thereafter. And on February 4th, Kulun was fully occupied by the White Army. Under the control of Unger and Sternberg, the Boda Khan became the nominal top monarch of Mongolia once again, and reclaimed Mongolian independence in 1921. On the other hand, after the Bolshevik achieved victory in the Russian Civil War, the Soviet government also hoped to expand their sphere of influence in Mongolia. In 1920, through the help of the Communist International, you had a small group of Mongolian Communist revolutionaries led by Sukhbatar and Choybalsan entered Mongolia in order to subvert Unger and Sternberg's regime. However, after the revolutionaries arrived in Mongolia, the White Russian army had rapidly expanded to 20,000. After realizing the surge in situation, the Mongolian revolutionaries, Sukhbatar and Choybalsan, they recognized they couldn't defeat Unger and Sternberg on their own. So in November of 1920, Sukhbatar and Choybalsan, they asked the Soviet government to dispatch the Red Army to Mongolia directly. In March 1921, the Red Army crossed the Mongolian border to unilaterally assist the Mongolian revolutionaries. The White Army was crushed in July with the military assistance provided by what is now the Soviet Union. The new Mongolian government was established in the same month. And on August 10th, 1921, the Soviet Union declared that the Red Army would stay in Mongolia until the remaining White Army was wiped out completely. So Mongolia was under Russia's control again. Now since the Soviet Union at that time was isolated from the international world order and also sought help to get China's help to defend against any potential invasion by Japan, the Soviets pursued a friendly relationship with the Chinese government. So the Soviet government thereafter made several public statements to convince the Chinese government that the Red Army would withdraw from Mongolia and would return the region's control to China immediately after the remaining enemy was destroyed. Furthermore, in 1924, both countries signed the agreement on settlement of outstanding issues between China and Russia. In this agreement, the Soviet government emphasized Chinese sovereignty of Mongolia and reassured that the Soviet Union would move troops out of Mongolia as soon as possible. Nevertheless, under the table, the Soviet Union signed what's called the Agreement on Diplomatic Relations between the Soviet Union and Mongolia, which recognized Sukwatar and Jorbausan's regime as the only legitimate government in Mongolia. So you see how the Soviet Union is playing both sides. Both governments established formal diplomatic relations, established consulates, and sent ambassadors to each country. After 1924, China was engaged in civil war once again. Then Japan invaded China in the early 1930s. So the Chinese government had to pivot attention away from Mongolia's region over the next two decades. Without any Chinese opposition, the Soviet Union deeply enhanced its control and influence over Mongolia. Now from 1945 to 46, we have the Altar Conference and the Republic of China's formal recognition of Mongolia's sovereignty. From the mid-1920s to the end of World War II, China underwent a series of catastrophic wars, so the Chinese government didn't have the adequate capabilities to bargain with the Soviet Union over the Mongolian issue. However, Mongolia was still nominally part of China. Not until 1945, during the Altar Conference, did Mongolia's sovereignty resurface between China and the Soviet Union. In 1945, before the Altar Conference, World War II was nearing its end. Only two months after the Altar Conference, Germany and Italy surrendered. However, Japan still insisted on fighting against the Allies. So based on the estimation of the US United States, the US troops still needed to fight roughly an extra 18 months to defeat Japan, even after a Nazi Germany surrendered. At least the thought was at least one million American soldiers would die in battle in any kind of invasion of Japan. Therefore, before nuclear weapons were ever successfully used by the United States, Washington had this urgent need for the Soviet Union to attack Japan as part of the Second Front. Stalin accepted America's request to attack Japan. In exchange, though, he needed the United States to accept several of his demands. One of the demands of Stalin was to preserve the status quo of Mongolia. In other words, because Mongolia's practice control was already held by the Soviet Union and Mongolia's already, China needed to recognize Mongolia's independence. In Stalin's opinion, Mongolia had geopolitical importance. Once China controlled Mongolia, it could easily cut through the trans-Siberian roads of Russia, which severely threatened the Soviet Union's project capabilities from Europe to Asia. On the other hand, if Mongolia was controlled by the Soviet Union, Russia could rapidly deploy its troops to China's Xinjiang province and invade the political center of northern China most efficiently. Therefore, it was crucial for the Soviet Union to maintain a pro-Russian regime in Mongolia. Although the United States worried about increasing the Soviet Union's expansion, for the purpose of quickly ending the war, Roosevelt had to accept all of Stalin's demands. Because Roosevelt worried that Stalin's demands might discourage China from fighting the Japanese, he planned to not leak the content of the agreement finalized as part of the Yalta Conference until Japan surrendered. However, the American ambassador to China, Patrick J. Hurley, over Roosevelt's objections informed the Chinese government of the agreement between the Soviet Union and America in advance. The Chinese president at that time was Chiang Kai-shek. He was shocked by this agreement between Stalin and Roosevelt. He realized that if Mongolia were to be recognized as an independent nation, it would lead to a national backlash that would threaten his power. On the other hand, the issue would also bring about extra obstacles for China to have to deal with to defeat the remaining Japanese troops. Therefore, Chiang Kai-shek sent a message to the Chinese ambassador to America immediately, hoping the ambassador would convince the new American President Truman to withdraw from the agreement. However, Truman made it clear that he would not go back on the agreement that was finalized during the Yalta Conference, since the United States still needed the help of the Soviet Union to crush Japan. Instead, he suggested the Chinese government immediately hold unilateral negotiations with the Soviet Union in order to bargain for complete control over the Chinese territories. On July 27, 1945, a group of Chinese senior officials went to Moscow to negotiate rewarding Stalin's various demands in the Yalta Conference, and the Mongolian sovereignty issue was the top priority. In Chiang Kai-shek's opinion, China could accept Mongolia's autonomy over Mongolia, but the region still needed some nominal control by China. Even though the United States did not interfere in the negotiations, the American ambassador to the Soviet Union messaged the Chinese government that Washington hoped China would immediately accept all the conditions imposed by the Soviet Union, since America was facing large pressures against Japan. We're going to run out of time in a minute. I did want to get to the central question, so if you could go fast forward and bring us to today and the status of Mongolia's independence and sovereignty today from China and from Russia. My question is the title question of the show. How did they achieve that? Was it luck? Was it the natural process of being a buffer state for both Russia and China and having the moxie to play the two off somehow diplomatically? They weren't always successful, but over these past few hundred years, they have been successful in, I guess, mostly in diplomacy and playing one off against the other. And here we are in 2022, and it looks like they have a certain independence. And that's really Akamai. Yeah, so what Chiang Kai-shek did is he emphasized that losing Mongolia was unacceptable for the Chinese on an emotional level. And because of both American and Soviet demands, Chiang Kai-shek had to abandon his initial stance, but he asked Stalin to compromise on several other issues, including recognizing the Kuomintang as the legitimate government of China. And Chiang Kai-shek asked that Mongolia's independence be decided by a referendum of the Mongolian people. So what happened was Stalin promised that he would not raise the Mongolian issue in public until after the war with Japan was over. So the China and the Soviet Union signed the Treaty of Friendship and Alliance on August 14th, 1945. And as a result, on October 20th, 1945, more than 90% of the Mongolian people voted for independence in the referendum. In January 46, the Chinese government formally recognized Mongolia's independence. And after the People's Republic of China was established in 1949, the new government formally recognized the treaty's legitimacy. So in the end, China lost the bargain of power with Russia over the Mongolian regime. And Mongolia's independence was formally recognized. You know what strikes me from your historical analysis of this, which I find fascinating. And I held back on asking you lots of questions that popped into my mind. But, you know, one thing is that if you look at these historical events and forces and vectors, if you look at the way the, you know, the, you know, the countries, the three countries operated over hundreds of years, you do wonder, Ralph, you do wonder whether Mongolia's independence, its sovereignty will stick in the future because these forces haven't gone away. Russia, you know, under Putin, they want buffer states. Chinese feel stronger than they ever did before about manifest destiny and the like. And they could make the case that they have deep ties with Mongolia, just as they say they have deep ties with Ukraine and try to try to take over. So my question to you, my final question to you is, is this going to stick with these factors in place? You know, these factors suggest that maybe it won't stick. Well, I think the Mongolia leadership is very conscious of the role that their country plays and the political maneuvering they have to engage with with China, Russia and the United States. I was fortunate to meet the Mongolian president in 2011 when he came to Washington, D.C. And that was one of the issues that I was able to wanted to address with him. You know, I said, it's highly, it's very remarkable that a, you know, a small country that's fairly landlocked has such close ties between China, Russia, and the United States, and even North Korea, you know, in terms of engaging in these kind of negotiations. And it's a lot of political maneuvering. And I guess when you're a Mongolian politician, you come up through the system recognizing, you know, how important it is to engage with China, Russia, United States and North Korea, you know, as a trusted friend, ally and partner to preserve your independence. You know, you have to go in with that being the utmost to ensure the autonomy of the nation of Mongolia. You can't have any emotional baggage, but focus strictly on the goal, which is to keep Mongolia independent, to preserve their autonomy. And that's the mind of that. As a matter of American foreign policy, we would like to see that. It's a remnant of the liberal world order. And it behooves us on both a diplomatic level and on a, what do you want to call it, a moral level to have them remain sovereign. And I think the Mongolians realized that. At least when I met the President and mentioned this and talked with him briefly, he respected and understood because we're the bastion of freedom and democracy. The Russians are control, order, discipline, etc. which the Mongolians respect as well. And they understand, you know, how to maneuver and engage in that kind of system. But they have a very good view of how to preserve their autonomy. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the Mongolian government. I also have been able to engage with them through the sport of wrestling. I'm on the board of the U.S. Wrestling Foundation and Mongolia is a wrestling power. And, you know, you see how engage the politicians and the coaches are and the respect they have for their competitors, their international competitors. Because it starts as well on the sports side. You develop the personal and professional relationships that help move as you move forward, you know, dealing at the geopolitical level in the government. Ralph Winnie, international lawyer in Washington, thank you so much. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at ThinkTechHawaii.com. Mahalo.