 Welcome to NewsClick. We have with us Kalathur Mani, president of DVK of Tamil Nadu. This movement has been leading anti-caste struggles and movement for rational thinking and scientific temper in the Tamil society. Welcome to NewsClick, sir. Across the country, especially in Maharashtra and Karnataka, we have seen the death of rational thinkers like Narendra Dabholkar, Kalburgi, Govind Pansare. And now we have seen the death of one of the activists of atheist movements in Tamil Nadu, H. Farook. Can you please throw some light on what has really happened in Tamil Nadu? I find a little difference between those three and this Farook. The three people were killed by the Hindutva forces. They have some politics behind them. But here, the Farook was killed by the Muslim fundamentalists. They have no politics behind them. That is, they are only fanatics of religious fanatics. New Wahhabism is coming here at today's establishment. There are some movements which are teaching about the Wahhabism ideologies here. These people, there are very few monobots in this Tamil Nadu. But the entire Muslim communities against them, they are accepting. But the murder was done by those Wahhabist people. That context, even Farook's father has come out saying that if his son was killed for his beliefs, even I also am an atheist. Do you think that's a progressive step and a direction for the Muslim community in Tamil Nadu? No, it's an emotional step, I think. There are a lot of Muslim communities in our movement. There are auditors, there are district presidents of our party from Muslim communities. It's the first time a person of Periyar's movement or a racialist is being targeted by the Muslim community. There are some clashes between the Hindutva forces and ourselves. But it's the first attack on a racialist in Tamil Nadu by Muslim fundamentalists. Sir, in that context, can you throw some light on how in Tamil Nadu the rationality movement and the atheist movement played a role in educating the society against superstition and religious beliefs that are actually enslaving the people? That is usually a racialist movement is here. Even in the 19th century itself, there was a Noguik Sangh was there. They were having two Periyadikas, one in Tamil, one in English, free-finger and another Periyadikal in Tamil in 1872 itself. But only after the Periyar's movement started in 1925, the Sunfrist movement was launched by Periyar in 1925. After 1925, it has, the entire Tamil community have somehow or other, they have absorbed the rational thinking. In Tamil Nadu, you can see a meeting or a meeting will be going on. On the other side, a procession of Noguik or some deity will be going. We will just stop the meeting and they will pass on and we will talk. Or some ways, they will be going. We will be speaking about racial ideas and even in about Ramayana and all. You see, Vinayaka idol was broken and Rama's portrait burned in Tamil Nadu. Nothing was no emotional attack on us from Hindu forces. Only police have our status. Police have filed case against it for having burnt or broken the idols. It is not in the temple. The idol was done by us. It will be broken in the villages. It is just a demonstration. More or less, the Tamil community have taken it so easily that they will pass on. Only nowadays, after this BJP has come to power, or a little earlier, some after Kanshava, my mass conversion was done in Vinayakshapuram in 1980. They have the people from the shadow castes have converted to Islam. Only after that, the Hindu forces started to make their moments in this area. But now, only after, for the past five or six years, they are coming up with the processions and all. The Jallilitha was with them. So to say, she was with them. She was Tamil Nadu's Bharati Jallilitha. Yeah. Now, what are the challenges in the current context before the rational movement and anti-caste movement in Tamil Nadu? Yes. The DMK was a sprinter 40 from Rao De Grave. They have started their political party. They have contested the election only in 1957. Though the split was in 1949 itself, they contested the election only in 1957. Up to the entry into electoral politics, they were talking about rational things and so on. In their meeting, they will be discussing some things. In 1967, they came to power. After coming to the power and after the demise of Siananna Adurai, Anna, the president of the party, after the Kalanjars regime, this Kalanjars-Karanjars regime, little by little, they have shared all these policies. The senior people are with the rational thinking, but they won't come out and talk in public about this. They will tell, I am an atheist to themselves. You see, now Stalin is the now working president of the party. Stalin is not a rationalist. Only Kalanjars himself was a rationalist, not even. But in the villages, in the remote villages, the people from DMK party are having rational ideas, ideologies. They are with us in our agitations, in our meetings. In all this, the people will be, the members will be taking part, but the command is not having so much of interest in rational ideas. How as being the president of DVK, what are the programs you have for the people so that you bring them closer to rational thinking and scientific temper? Before, we are used to propaganda towards, we will arrange. There will be three or four groups, Kavitha, Singh Air, not drama somehow, street dramas will be played, and there will be a speaker to talk about things. We will distribute families. The three, before six months, before six months, we were having the campaigns against Kastu. Now only last month, we had a program for seven days in five groups. I have been traveling this for two times. The title was that, Nambunga Riviyalai Nambadhinga Samyar. It means, believe in science, not the Samyars. It was the title and the entire tour was only promoting rationalism only. How was the response of the people for this program? See, there will be no person to agitate against this propaganda. Only the Hindutva forces, they used to tell something with the people, they are coming, they will be against our gods, they may break our gods and all. They will try to organize a group, but it never helped anywhere. They can't stop us in any place, but there are some clicks there. The police will come and ask us to go to another place, not in our team, in another group resource in Kanjiburam. There are some in two or three places. The police have asked us not to do propaganda at that area, for there are some chances of breaking. So, from the intellectuals, how has been the response towards this movement? Are they talking about it in the public sphere or there is still not much in the discussions across the state? Yes, before two or three years, we were frustrated with the students of this Tamil Nadu. They never cared about these things, about anti-caste propaganda or rationalist propaganda. They will not take any care about this, but for the past, I don't know how, whether after the regime or the turning of Modi or so, that if students are interested in taking part in our discussions, in Facebook discussions and all, there are write-ups in even magazines, like some weekly magazines, there will be some write-ups about the rationalism and all. Now, I find that student communities turning their eyes towards this anti-caste and racial ideas. Now that the challenge is very severe from the right-wing forces in the country, and even in Tamil Nadu, you can see the right-wing forces making their entry into Tamil Nadu, what do you see? How do you think you can bring about people and like-minded parties together for having a broad coalition against the onslaught, against the constitution, against the scientific thinking and against rational thinkers? What do you think is a platform to bring all the people? See, in Tamil Nadu, there is some other hindrance for us. Then Tamil national parties are here. Their nationalism has gone to a racism, so to say. In Tamil Nadu, the Tamil national movements used to blame entire Karnataka, Karnatagas for the cover issue. They will blame entire Malayalis for the Mallai Periyar issue. When the Mallai Periyar issue was there, in Payamuthur, some areas, the batteries rained by Malayalis were broken, attacked by these Tamil national forces. But we conducted a survey and found that more or less most of the batteries, 90 percent, 85 percent of the batteries were run by scheduled cost people from Kerala who cannot run such a shop in their area. They have come here and opened the show. They are just identified as Malayalis, they will not be identified by the caste or community. So, they came here, we told them that you have attacked the people who cannot live there in Kerala for the reason that they are from downroading communities. But they will be arguing that, no, they should be set out, this Karnataka should be set out, the Telugu people should be set out. This is the difficulty now we are facing with our people. In Periyar days, there were leaders who were having Tamil national ideas, except on Maho Sivajana, he was with the same idea of these people. But the other leaders were not segregating people in the name of languages. They will see that they are Sudras or the Sudras only. Wherever they were, language may be different. The people of that generation was considering that all are being enslaved by Brahminism. But nowadays the Tamil national parties are segregating people. He may be a downtrodden for community or a backward community or whatever may be. But in the name of language, we are facing more obstacles from these Tamil national parties, more than from the brand-nical forces in Tamil Nadu. We can say so. We have to, we are discussing with them. Some people have accepted our, they used to blame us. Our Periyar is from Karnataka origin, so the people are supporting Periyas. These people are supporting, they will be saying. But what we want to divide the people as brand-nical forces and anti-brand-nical are the enslaved people as Sudras or the Sudras. But nowadays only there are little change in the Tamil national parties. But they are the more, we are facing some difficulties to having our movement with them. But the other political parties are with us. See, when a Periyar movement gives a comment on any of the political parties, it will be seen so seriously by the people. Political parties are with us. All the Dravidian parties may be, except to ADNK, another Audemars. They are not at all a political people, I will say. But the people from Vidadalai Srinthigal, the Dalit family of India, now the name has changed as Vidadalai Srinthigal. The other backward classes parties are with us, this DMK, the other Waikos party, they are all with us. Whenever we conduct a meeting or agitation, they will support or else they will not give any trouble to us. They will be with us. Thank you, sir, for giving us your valuable time. We will get back to you on some other issue.