 Today we have a very interesting company and it's Anna Engholm from Wesseler and she will tell us a little bit about her agile journey, so I think I just will hand it over to you Anna. Okay, and thank you and good morning. I guess, as I said, when some of you were joining, it's just so nice to see old faces. Some of you I haven't seen in a while. It makes me very humble and also proud and also very proud that so many decided to actually join. This is just my story. It's not really that interesting if you ask me. Apparently I have something this year and I remember at some point I said, yeah, Maria, but I'm not the type of person that would do presentations. And then she actually caught me because she said but think about the difference you can make for people out there that are just on your journey as well just would really like to be inspired and then I thought well, I like to share my story and I like to share my journey so I hope that any of you any of it is just useful for you and if you don't like it. It's okay but you can reach out to me and ask all the questions later. That's just perfectly fine. But I think just before we get started, I'll share a bit about who I am for those who don't know me, and also probably for those who know me. I'm not sure that you know my CV and the story like that. And also share a bit about the company that I'm in and the part of the organization I'm working within as well. So we did actually prepare or we didn't I prepare the short presentation for you guys that I will share with you here. So, first of all, who am I. Well, I'm a ending home and I've been working in the cellar and the IT department of this cellar as a senior people business partner for a bit, almost a three and a half years. I've been working in HR since a 2002 so I can't even. That's quite a few years. Actually when you start doing the calculation but anyways I've been working in HR for a period of time my background is completely different by actually I'm a translator and interpreter but don't ask about that. I think it was back in 2007 or eight and just work my way around that a working in a design company for quite some years, primarily within HR than in a in a manufacturing company, then I came into a fashion company, which is called the store. And now a best of which is also a fashion company and we like to think of ourselves as a tick company as well. So some of the background that I actually wanted to just I just put up here is say I think where what made the biggest difference for me in my. What is that called educational background is actually when I got my master in digital innovation. It's my second master. And we're also certainly when I got to the agile people coach when I took the education from agile people back in the 2000 and 20. It's approximately one and a half years ago since I finished that. So enough about me I'm really not that interesting, I can share with you that I'm a, I'm only 48 years old, I live in Denmark, in the Netherlands. And the type of person who like to run and stuff like that. But again, I live in the countryside and outside today just looks to be a beautiful beautiful day so I hope that they will just stick that way. But anyways, enough about that and enough about me. So a best seller for those of you who don't know best seller I will just run through this very fast best seller was found just found it back in 1975 by the couple others and Merida Paulson. And actually, today they are it's a much bigger company with 20 different fashion brands I will show you a slide on that in a second so if you don't, if you're not sure if you know best seller you will know in a bit. And we are today owned and also a, you could say, run by Anna Paulson, who's the son of Anna's trolls and right. And he has been heading up best seller at the entire company of best seller since 2001. We are deeply rooted in our vision and I think this actually is very for those of us who are inside the walls best seller would know that this is true that we actually base our every day on being one world one philosophy and one family and nearness is just one of the very important things that they actually stand out for us. We live by our family principles that were actually made back in 75 by told Paulson and I think a you all know this then you go onto a website to see them are they really there but for us they really are, and we live by them and I actually myself use them. Often, just to guide me on a daily basis should I go this way or that way, and the founding principles will let me know the approximately 18,000 people. And we have 20 different brands and we are placed in 38 different countries. These are some of the brands, hopefully some of you know them. And if not, I can only urge you to go find them because we actually a, we have a great stuff on the shelves in the stores. I work in vessel IT, as I said, and I will just share a bit with you on who vessel IT is for a couple of minutes. This is us. This is us right before the pandemic hit us. So, but I think it actually shows very well who we are, and also the spirit that we have within the approximately 250 people supporting the entire 18,000 people in the vessel. We have quite a few different nationalities about 37 teams and I think the fundamental also the reason why we're here today is that we actually work agile. In vessel IT, we support the entire supply chain. So that means from the brands getting idea of their wanting to design something and also both sourcing and getting a good produce and actually also deliver to us getting into our big logistics centers before it hits either wholesale or also our retail, but we support it all so whether it's a cash register that's not working or it's me that's not able to print. We just have to be able to actually support that from an IT perspective, just so you know that we cover quite a lot and 250 people suddenly doesn't seem like a lot, at least not to me. We have founded our vision in IT is that IT means business, and we have some strategic drivers to actually deliver on that. For myself, I support and work primarily with a belonging grow and also the one that's called a guy lemon dishes, but I will not tire you with any more of that. So I think that was just the beginning of that. Yeah, we thought we were going to do it a little bit differently than just than just having a presentation. So the intention is for me, I will start and ask some questions and then if you want you can raise your hand and then we will let you also ask questions. It's going to be much more fun that way I think it will be but 63 people so we need to coordinate it somehow, but please raise your hand and we will let you in. We have been talking a little bit on it and I know you joined the change process has already started when you joined best seller. Can you, can you say a little bit about the background, why things happen and how, where it was when you arrived. I can at least share what I've heard. And I can see we have people in the call that actually were there so if you want to correct me please feel free to do so. But yes, one of the things that we'd experienced was that we were very much focusing on one big project in the IT delivering a one big project for our entire organization rolling out a new system. And at some point we also understood that we somehow had lost the connection to our stakeholders and also the close link, delivering what they actually needed but also delivering it fast so delivering the right solution at a fast pace. So that was one of the reasons so we also wanted to become a bit more efficient, and then get this close collaboration with the stakeholders so we would actually deliver what they were asking for at a certain place and then I think also. In IT we were very good at delivering support and also operations but doing a development and digitalization was not our primary focus. So we wanted to change that a bit. And I also know that I joined in October 18 and that was just right after the transformation like from day to day have happened. But already back in January the same year so exactly four years ago they started a pilot project to see so what which from actually what would that work like for us and could it work so they set up a small pilot project. And I heard it was with approximately 25 or 30 people in a smaller team within the retail area, where they actually tested out did this work or did network, and the top management came to the conclusion that it has been such a great success that they wanted to go agile in the entire organization. And so they did in a June 2018. Yeah, but getting closer to the customers actually was and delivering right solutions faster. And then you arrived and what was your role. Well the funny thing is that I also shared this with you and I love to share this story because during my interviews that went on in August and September so the transformation happened in the in June and I joined in October so when I had the job interviews. I never actually heard about that child. And there could be two reasons for that either because I just did not understand it and had an idea of I had to listen in for that, or the company just didn't share that much with me on that. And they, I haven't tested it with those who actually hired me so what was it, what was it but what they did do was ask me to work on a, how do we do change management. And I did something on that and I also asked them when I was hired so why did you pick me, and they actually said well because we think you can bring the calmness, and also the neon is back into the organization. And I have to be honest and say I had no idea what they meant by that, until I actually walk in the door I think. Yeah, so but you never don't you never know what it is to join a company or go into a new job until you're actually there. So, but yeah, and my role was then just to be HR. And this is a, this is a, we have a HR department called people, and then we have business partners business partners, either working from people and just a borrowed out into the business or you employed and sit and work in the business and I sit in it. I have a direct reference to our CIO, and I sit in our leadership team also. So I sit out there and I represent the HR and I build HR stuff and build the organization so that is my role and that has been my role from day one. That it got a different connotation to it when I joined in. It's a different story that we will touch upon in a minute I think. Yes. So you arrived and you were going to do HR and and can you a little bit describe the different faces you have gone through on your journey, because I guess you started from scratch. I mean, there are like two journeys so there's my own but I think you're also referring to the one that SLIT went through on their agile journey. Yeah. So I think first of all we actually went from being this traditional a plan been run organization and then actually being set up in or transformed into an agile setup. And we actually said to all our development teams that we want you have to run scrum and try to see what scrum can do for you it's like the, what is it Shuhira or Shuhari I can't remember it anymore but it's like a follow the book, then they break the rules and make your own your own rules so we asked them to actually follow the follow the rules so but getting the concept right getting into what what is it actually to work agile so I think that was the first face landing on our two own feet, having all the teams set up in the scrum and his teams and all that that was the first phase, and it was not as short face, it was a long face and I think for many of us it was also a difficult phase to be in. Because for many of us, I think a going from being the leaders that we were where we had we were wearing all the hats to suddenly just having either you're the product owner the scrum master or whatever I think that they that was a that was at the beginning just finding our feet to stand on in a new setup. And then I think a the next phase has been actually to a to start working agile and one thing is I think someone said to me at some point you can work 100% agile or is scrum without being agile at all, because it's all about the mindset and I think that's what we've been working with very much. I mean, it's here to stay so now it's been here for three and a half years and it's not really going back thing for the first year some of us were actually asking ourselves is it just going to go away again and we will just go back and just to the know the well known and maybe also a comfortable place to be. Yeah, and today we are. I think we're a different maturity level so if you asked me are you agile I would say yes, still have teams that are at different levels when it comes to working agile but we are at a different place and also a bit of place when it comes to that. But then you challenges arise. Yeah. So what are your next steps. In the IT, we are very much focused, we are very much focused on getting out just building even stronger teams. So for the past half year we, at least when we decided that we work with OK us and one of our objectives is to grow teams and communities. And when we talk about this growing teams, I think I even brought it on to the agenda myself I had this idea we just go ahead work with psychological safety. That's what they need. Then I think we realize that maybe we should start somewhere else so we've been doing trainings where we've been training our scrum masters to be not only facilitate us but actually true leaders and taking them on a journey with a we've used an external emergency to help us that so we know that our scrum masters have lifted to a level where we actually a where they can push the teams even more but that also they know what's their role because we've had people come and leave this from master community and this from master role. So now it's, it's this community that we started again and they've been training together and I'm just, I'm so proud to see what they what they have a what they have accomplished over the past just six months it's just amazing. And we decided to do the same thing with the product owners. So they also a so for us to build strong teams we need the fundament to be there. So to make sure that also all our product owners actually deliver on the product vision so we know where we had it they know how to actually how to work with the stakeholders how to prioritize the backlog and all those kinds of things. So that's also one of the, one of the, the things we've been working with. So maybe psychological safety is the next thing. And I'm not sure, but I will also work with the scrum masters in that community. And then another focus we have is to work with a building a strong communities. So, for a very long period of time we had a one community or a couple of communities and also the scrum master and the product owners they started out then they closed down because it just did not really work and we found out that it what it takes to run great communities maybe to have a facilitator. So we're working with that and today we have 11 different communities within a couple within the development one for that to for the architects I think we also have a scrum master community, people community people it is a different role that we can also touch upon because we did something a bit out of the ordinary scrum master community level so we have different kind of communities to build the cross team collaboration but also make sure that we actually work in some kind of similar cadences across the organization. Great. It's a very quiet audience. You are allowed to ask questions. You showed me because you mentioned how you built your your scrum masters and product owners but you have you showed me a slide, a little bit where you showed the the responsibilities. The people. I don't remember what you called them. Yeah, should I share with you what actually happened on that account. Let me just I will, I will go into the slideshow again. So you don't have to look at me diet either I think there's such. Please, please ask questions. Yeah, if you have any just a I'd be happy to share anything I know or I don't know. Anyways, when, when we had made this transformation we also learned very fast that we have to bring back and then it's back into the organization one thing that actually happened was when we did the transformation it turned out that suddenly we were a, I think eight or 10 people in the top management team and the span of control was for several of these leaders sitting there was something like a 50 plus and I think the one who had the most and I break the report was actually 56. And it turned out that when I joined in October they just finished the development talk period. And I think for many of the managers they had this idea that they were very present because they are constantly speaking with the employees. But I think for the employee that was number 46 in the row of the development talks, and then hadn't been seen for a very long period of time. We actually lacked a bit of nearness, and it was also very vulnerable, very vulnerable time in our organization because we were not giving instructions this is how you should work or this is what you should do what we left it actually up to the teams on their own to define how could we, how should we works from how should we, how should we set up the team and how should we work together, just a very classical is from with no cookbook but a lot of ideas. So, what we learned very fast was actually that we had to do something to bring back the nearness to the organization. And also, we also learned very fast that sitting in a development talk with a leader that had no idea about what was the product that we put up in this product team. And we had which had the end to end ownership so many of us, some of our employees will go in have a dialogue and agree this is the course I'm going to take or this is the conference I would attend. And then we're going to go back out into the, into the team and say, Oh, I'm going to this conference and the team would be. Okay, could you just repeat to me, why is that relevant to our product, or why is that relevant to the product vision we have. I think to actually be aligned so what we were working on and developing ourselves in the direction in the team we should be something that would be working for for the team and they also support the product. So we had to build some HR processes and a trainer in leadership. So first of all what we did is very classical just to say the span of control was simply too big so we had to reduce it, but it's just how do you actually do that. And today we have a span of control teams are in general, eight between eight and I think between eight and 12 I would rather say a couple of bigger and some of them are big smaller blah blah blah so in average they're around 12. But I think this is the slide you were talking about English net. Yeah. So, actually, the teams that we have supported by the scrum master which will do with the scrum masters for us on the team. And a, as I said before we are trying to build this truly the ship when a the new scrum guide came out in was it 21 November 21 I think, said, we were going from being secretaries or coordinators to actually being truly this but that is a shift that is not having overnight. But the scrum master has the team, build the team, work with the team and help the team and just improving and working together and also own the events. So they would facilitate that they might a delegate some of the events to others but as such it aligns with the scrum master. Then we have the product owner and the product owner. Actually is the person that has the stakeholders, they, they own the product or the team owns the product but as such the product owner is also the one to make the product vision, and also to prioritize the stuff that comes from the stakeholders on what are we working on. So they own a own that part, and very much into the stakeholder management. And then we have a certain lead and the circle lead is what you could say the people that are actually in the leadership team. And that was, that was a setup we had in the beginning, but then we actually introduced this people lead role, and this is an odd one in an agile setup. You don't find that in the books, but we learned very fast and those of you who are very quick would also have seen the, when I had the front page of the slideshow it said maybe there's an eye in teams after all, we learned very fast that you cannot just put people together in teams and just expect them to have this a honesty openness and just work together without problems. So, we found out that we needed someone who could actually work closely with with people and help people land in this setup. And then you could ask, but what is the people lead, and the people lead is someone who actually has focused on the individual, and then you could ask, but didn't you just say that that's wrong and that's also what you are working with from a HR perspective that you had to change that around. Yes, but we actually believe that we needed that. So it's someone that's just there to hold your hand, and they actually help you land in the teams they are also the ones to have some of the administrative stuff so illness or vacation stuff like that but in general and they also own the HR processes. So, this is the people lead role, which is, as I said, a bit of an odd one. And I think one thing that we did from the beginning so when we knew and also I knew and I think that's probably in one of, in one of my, to be honest, I can say this in this closed forum, one of my biggest challenges was actually to understand how to work at my self. So what we did we actually create a people lead community and it wasn't this community that we built all the HR processes. I come from a role as an HR director in an manufacturing company and I held a great roles where I was the one to decide so this is how we do people stuff, this is how we work with HR. So if we wanted to sign a development talk in a different, in a different way, I would decide. So, and I would also a, I would own all the processes I would design a what is going to happen when over the year, all that. But if I should also be agile and HR should also be agile in this setup. We also just learned very fast that maybe we should take our own medicine and actually work with my closest they call dots and those for the people leads. So how could we together build what was right for the organization that what I thought was right but what actually my stakeholders out in the organization thought was right for their people. So we did that. So they actually helped build all the HR processes I have a couple of examples if you want to know but they, as soon as we realize that actually, you cannot, you cannot work on an individual level as a, as we do in traditional HR but you have to work on teams for everything you do. That was a very difficult for for us at least but that's what we did. My role has been to be the facilitator so I own this community and it's a we just turned three years old so and you could think that well shouldn't it, should you do something but it's still running and trying to reinvent the community every now and then, but my job is to just to make sure that we are facilitated right. My job is to make sure that we actually push ourselves a bit, but also that we stay relevant so we tried several times in this community actually to build the backlog of things we want to work on so we would have something we could go back to and say, Well, now this is important for us, but we never really this is because a constantly when we meet in the community. New topics come up or whatever is relevant to the organization. Now they talk about career path. Okay, let's grasp it or they're talking about hybrid workforce. Okay, let's let's grasp it so we work with whatever is relevant for our organization and the people as well. So, yeah. Yeah, I don't know if that's what you're looking for but that's at least. Then I guess one question what is the general size of the team. As I said, it's between eight and 12. And I think I haven't counted, but I do have an organization such chat somewhere where I could count but we actually try to keep them at a not getting too big. And if they get too big oftentimes we have teams, you know they arise and disappear, depending on what the business actually needs from us. So if we have a new needs or digitalization product or a project or we have a request for specific functionality so anything like that systems in the business. Well, our teams would have to work with that and if it's a such a big request that requires new team to rise it will. And I think even we have someone in the room here who was part of that so when we did a digital showroom I think it came up. And then, and that's the team. Just so you know. Yeah. Then we have another question. What change in terms of HR vision approach and initiatives. That's a good question because a for those of you who know me just a bit you would know that a I am not at all into a HR strategies and five year plans and stuff like that, but we work intuitively. If you can ask me so where you headed. You could I could I could give you words on that because I know where we headed and I know that but as such, there is a very strict vision from a people perspective in this overall in this system. We have eight people goals that we have to follow and that we actually support and we also support that from it perspective, but working with a, I never made an HR vision. We have a You break up a little bit. We made a. Okay. Yeah, now we hear you. Okay, I'm sorry for that I have us very on. Nobody's on the phone. Nobody's on the telly. Nothing is happening in the house today I said do not because we have a stable line on state line I'm sorry for that. Okay, I'm not sure I lost it there. What was I did I did I answer the question I'm not sure. I think you did. Yeah. And then there's another part looking back at the experience you had what would you, what would your advice be to other organization that still are in the beginning of this journey and not so experienced yet. I think. Well it depends on not experienced in working agile, or if it's just we work agile but we're not experienced in working a agile HR wise. So because I would think what I learned very fast they say I knew that something was wrong with all the tools that I had in my toolbox and the way that we actually work with HR. But it's very difficult to design something new if you have no idea of what's the context you're designing for. So just understanding agile. So what are the fundamentals of the agile you don't have to be an agile ninja to actually succeed with that just understanding what's the mindset what are they the fundamentals of it and building from there from there. So my advice would be to understand what are the fundamentals what's the concept, and then I think they're to be courageous. Yeah, and also there to build so what feels right. So much of the stuff that we built in best ally T is not because we read it in a book. Maybe we did that later when we learned about agile people but we built it because we thought it was right. So we built it from our gut feeling we build it from experience what we thought was right for the organization so I think that would be my advice. Maybe stay too close to the organization and they give them what they need not necessarily what they want. I think that's also something from agile. Then, then there is question. I like this. And you elaborate on the people. Can you elaborate on the people lead is not a title but a role. Can anyone be a people is it a temporary role or is it the only role. This is funny. Yeah, I love this when we work from home. Yeah. Okay, I didn't do it. I didn't do it. Yes, I can elaborate on that. So actually when we designed the people lead role it is a role. It's not a title. So a, I'm not sure I do, I do think we have a couple of people who actually used it as a title over time but as such it's it's not that so you would be a product owner and a people lead. And those of you who are just a bit smart here would say but doesn't that contradict so on one hand you have to push the team push the individual push everything from a stakeholder perspective and the product and then on the other hand, you have to be like have the project and make sure that they land in this in a good way. That was also a challenge we had and we work with but as such it's, you could be a people lead a together with something else and that would mostly we have that a scrum master people lead product owner people lead and a few that are agile coaches and people lead. Yeah. I don't know if that actually answered the question I just elaborated on it. Good. Good. Can you name some points where you need to use hacks. I mean the situation where it seemed people block agile, or people were not able to adapt scrum or something. I think I don't know if we use hacks and they I'm not prone to using the concept of hacks but then again I think we don't do anything but that. So, and the question was about so if we do agile but let me just answer it from a different perspective because you have to remember that I work in HR. I'm not an agile coach. I do not own the agile agenda such. So I work from an HR perspective, but we do have oftentimes where people make us or we make assumptions in the organization, or we have difficulties in actually accepting things. And then we we work in close dialogue with the organization to actually change that. So, and HR perspective could be so when the people each came right after a period of time with development talks, this is exactly a year ago they came and said well we need career paths. We don't have career paths in a best seller. We don't have it in the IT we did have it in IT right before the agile transformation but we don't have it today. Then we actually became very curious so when the people need say we need career paths, let's ask our people why our career path so important to you. And then we said to them we don't have career paths in the best seller IT what do you make of that. What do you think they said, they said, career paths, we don't want that. Don't put me in a box, give me an idea of where I can go instead, but don't put me in a box. So I think it's also being very curious about not just assuming that we know what they mean when they say something or just diving into actually understanding what the problem is and work with the right thing. So instead of making career paths we made something different we made some cheat sheets of role expectations instead and I think we're working with that right now and it just made a world of a difference for many of us for both our employees but also certainly for the people as well. Yeah, you had something in your presentation about that and when we have been talking, we discussed a little bit of remuneration and compensation but then you said we are trying this out but our emphasis is on growing people so. Yes. I just need to understand if you want me to share something I referring to any you had a slide where you had this career. Okay, I got it. I got it this day, because we're talking about different things I think this might be the one you're asking for and is that correct. Yes. So this is actually what we came up with instead with the career path and then they let me just go on to the renomination part after that so when we work with them. This people said they wanted career paths. We were curious about that and found out that that's not what they wanted but they wanted something to get an idea where to go. So we learned very fast that maybe we have all the stories in the organization already. So sharing stories from people who actually made their own path. So for us and this is also something that I learned from agile people from the training that we did there but also on a conference that I participated in. You have to set your own GPS so where you headed, but you might go up a bit go down a bit so we talk about career paths as career mosaics instead. And I think that's actually what we're trying to illustrate by also telling stories of this guy who was a princess he became a supporter today he's one of our best developers or someone else who just made a different path but you have to go the strict line, but you can go whichever way you want to go but just set your, your mind on something, set your GPS on something and let us work on that together. And for that we also created these role expectations and that's also a concept that we actually stole from a some of the trainings we did with agile people, or at least was inspired to work with these role expectations so this is a very strict role description, saying that this is but it's more so what's expected of me when I joined this role, what's the contribution I will have in the team and what's the contribution that I actually will give to facility. So these are so it gives you an idea of so I might be sitting today being a supporter and I'm dreaming of becoming an analyst. So what does it actually take for me in one column so what do I have to be able to. And then you asked me that's true someone had asked you yesterday or were curious about how about renumeration or pay compensation did we actually work with that and I said to you also was. No, no, we haven't done the let's just give the team a bag of money let them share it amongst them because that's where we are as I shared from the very beginning today, we could focus on how can we build even stronger teams and we actually believe that our teams are not there yet. So, and right now what we're working on a, or you could say what we had before was a when we did people review, many of you know the process of nine grits and stuff like that. So you would have to if you were going to have a pay raise you would probably have to get a specific number or you would have to, you might have been a six or seven I don't know I wasn't here at that time. So I was only told a but what we did at the beginning was a of the journey here was to split it up very strictly somewhere did they. We have to do the people review and those of you who are into this truly agile stuff would say but you wouldn't do the people review, but I have to. We work still in a big organization of 18,000 people with a traditional thinking HR. So we have to also deliver on some of that stuff, but we do people review our way so it's not so it's not so much about the numbers but it's much more about the people. It's about how can we actually grow the people and help each other to have different perspectives and how can we help each other grow grow the people and today, it's just completely separated so there's no link at all between being a five and if you're having a pay raise or not that's handled by the teams will be given some of money and that's some of money is given to the people eat some people eat say well I in this perspective I will just give them the same amount all of them. In other teams they the people eats have decided differently so but it's up for the TV people each actually do that. Yeah, we have two question, even if you have these sheets sheets. How do you improve for each role. And then there's another connected to this did you consider using tea profiles for career paths and personal development and they are linked together yeah. Yeah, I think I started with the tea profiling it's like, it's a very a. Fundament, and we are working with a making a tea profiles that we just share a short minute with you a different day. We think I think we have it right up here. This one. So one thing we did was actually to build this concept and I think it actually supported very well so a in this. This is a concept where the team does a development talk. So they actually agree on what are the competencies that we have in the team that are most important for the team for the product vision so if we're going to deliver on that and the roadmap for the next six months what are the competencies that we have today. And then afterwards discuss that and then after that they go in and discuss so what are the competence that we actually need, but having into an ownership in the team goes without saying you need to have the tea profiles. You could sit here being in a team, the teams have like analysts developers architect supporters, anything it would go into, sorry, would go into go into the team but if you think that I'm only here to do my task, working on that and not being prepared to pick up a team, even if if one of our customers calls us, or the stakeholders grab hold of us, that's not how it works so we try to work with that and when they do this, they actually start up the session by actually discussing so what is it to be a T shaped profile. So just so you know, there was the first question and I didn't hear that. I heard it but I forgot it was so engaged in the second question sorry for that. So if you have these sheets sheets how do you improve for each role. So, how do I improve the individual. So because we do have. Yeah, the same person Amina is asking how do you estimate the level of competency and in improvement plans for each role. You just saw that. Right. So that's just that's actually what happened. I'll just share the slide again. So this is actually what happens here. So what you can see it's not really easy to see but you have the pie charts up here and what the team does is so these are the pictures these are the people going down here and then you have the competencies out here and those of you who are a bit smart would say, those are a lot of competencies. Today they go through a co creation process first to agree on what are the 10 most important competencies that we need in the team for the next six months. They go through it and say well I'm a 25% or I'm 30 or I'm 50% or 75% depending on the level of proficiency I have on this level, and then the team would discuss it so if you're 75, I'm only 25. And then when we first have to find so what is, what is the actual picture right now, but if we're going to deliver on the vision going forward. What do we need to develop so first of all are the competencies or a knowledge that we don't have today that are needed within half a year that some of us should look start looking at. So we could add that and that could be is that I start with a zero but after half a year I have to be 25% I would have to know what is the software something like that. In the team you actually discuss. So what's my level of proficiency, but also here we don't stop there, the teams also discuss so if I commit to actually getting better at this area to support the team and they are products development. So how am I going to do it, say they appear to be a training, am I going to read a book, am I going to do a tutorial, whatever that is, that's actually all put up here. And of course cobit 19 made us go online with this concept and it works just perfectly fine as well working on a mural board and many of them decide either to put this in Gira or they have it in a, in a, in simply in an Excel spreadsheet. So this is where it's defined. What also happens is after that you would go in. Let me see if I can share a slide here, because we also have this in the cellar. The overarching the seller we have a concept called my growth and we would go into my growth dialogues that is a classical development talk. After you've been with your team, you would have that after you made the commitment in your team to this is what I commit to do and what I will be getting becoming better at. Then you would go into a micro dialogue with your people lead and for the people need this is much more. It's much more about making sure that people are engaged motivated happy and feel that they're actually using their competencies to the fullest. And the question is also is there anything I as a people you can do to support you on the journey you promised to go on with the team. So this is how we work with it. And what what happens. We have a question I what happened if I work in one team and I want to do something different because I've been doing this for some time and I want to grow outside of the team what happens. Then a hopefully my my strong believe is and my strong hope is that people will talk to their people lead about it, because that's the type of confidence reality that we try to work with and build with the people needs. And for those of you in the call who also have been people leads I know that you were handpicked to be people leads because the heart was in the right place. And because we have a people perspective and people skills. And then I think that actually is the most important thing so that the confidentiality and the openness and the honesty. So you dare to say, I think I need something else. And they helped me look in the direction that you could look into the cheat sheets or we could consider if you simply just need to work with the same thing but on a different product and come to a different team. And just be open and honest about it and we'll do everything we can to actually embrace it and see if we can move you somewhere else. We don't want people to leave us. We want people to stay. And also today our retention rate is like really really high people don't leave us our employee turn over is like really low, just on the verge of being unhealthy low so and, but so many new people joined us so I'm not scared of that. We also have a lot of new competencies joining us so we have the diversity in the team so are the knowledge. I hope that answered the question. Yes. We had one question here. What kind of resistant challenges you had to face in moving people from waterfall to an agile scrum mindset. Again remember I was not there but then again again I remember the day that I walked in the door and the second of October 2018 and they entire organization was they were shivering they didn't know which links to stand on or what is this all about and I think the challenge was simply to getting the concept right and understanding it. So it's much also about the mindset. So understanding that they suddenly I can make the decisions. So it's suddenly that I am actually part of everything so that I don't look up and so what do you think boss, but it's actually the boss looking at you or your product owner and the team asking so what should we do. So the concept of shared leadership. So that the person with the most knowledge actually is also the one to be the expert here and help them. Yeah. So something like that would be my answer to that. Yeah. Yeah, and then can you change team in case you want new challenges I think you kind of went into that one. We want that. But I'd like to just stress also that it's easy for me to say, but you all have been in companies where you think, should I say something I shouldn't know or is it maybe easier to leave the company and get a different job. And we're just constantly trying to actually build this it's okay to open your mouth we rather that you stay here we want, we have. You would say the same, but we have the best team at all. It's like a we know honestly, and I can share this with you and don't say to anybody but I think when I joined the DNA. And that was a, that was in vessel it was different than the DNA we have across the entire organization today. We have spent so much time hiring for attitude training for skill, and just building a strong good teams and where we just did the the DNA that runs in the people that we actually have us join us is the right one with the hardest in the right place and they are curious and all that kind of stuff so I think the team that we have I don't want it to change I know that it will change but I don't want it to change. So I really sincerely hope that people will speak up and ask so yes they can change teams. So just a few quick last word. This hour has one just gone by so fast. I have so much more to share. So, but just to wrap up a little bit. You probably touched a little bit but but but what are the positive learnings and what have been the largest challenges for you. Yeah, yeah, I am almost crying thinking about it. I think my biggest challenge was to go from being traditional to understanding what what agile HR is all about. I have to take my cab and turn it 180 degrees around and just, it's a shift. It's a paradigm shift. And what I'm struggling with today is say, I need peers, all over the place. I met agile people and I've met, I've met some of you through agile people, and we are on the same page but I often time meet other HR people. So what is the paradigm shift and I actually struggle a bit to explain it, because I can say people review and we all have a concept of understanding what is people review, but understanding it in a different set of how do we think about compensation or how do we think about anything, not career path, but career mosaic, it's just, it's the mindset. And I think that's one of the biggest challenges that I'm still facing today. The organization, the challenge that I'm facing is probably more intrinsic and it's much more about accepting that I don't just do HR, but I work so much on developing the organization and I think that's been for those of you who know have been with me for many years, it's just like what I do. So I cannot not a react to things that are going on, things that are sensing that is not working so we have to fix it. So go into the organization, investigate it, be curious about that. And I've done it always but I'm just doing it in a bit of a different perspective so running three communities is not something that was written in my path, I think that I was going to do that but I really enjoy it and I love it but it's, and I probably one of my biggest challenges is could I ever go back to a traditional HR setup and I cannot. I know for sure I cannot and so I will stick in the SLIT for the rest of my life, but I'm also having a great time here I'm so grateful for the options that I've had. I think another challenge that I might be facing also is that I constantly have to be aware of we're just a small dot in a big organization, 18,000 people, 250 of us working agile and a bit of people in our own and we don't work agile together. So how can I grasp all the traditional stuff that comes and just twist and turn it a bit so it's edible for us in our organization. But I think when we started out our HR director she was like what is this why can't you just until and today she's like that's interesting tell me more about it. So it's, I think that has changed a lot also so it's a but it's also been three and a half years. So my biggest learning is, I think that it's very personal but I think my biggest learning is the courage there to think differently there to stand out and there to follow your guts. We don't have to read a book we don't have I like to be inspired you saw today some of the samples been inspired by it, but I always take it and chew on it and twist it and turn it and how can we sometimes it's just one word or one sentence that makes the world of the difference for us starting a new journey inside our organization. Yeah. Yeah, I think that was very well said. I think it doesn't think we have any more questions from from from the participants but I think that would be a very great end on this event so thank you so much Anna for sharing your journey. I really appreciate you put not just a corporate presentation but the personal touch. Thank you and thank you for having me and for those of you who are not linked in with me please do so. It's just ending home.