 When I was over at UPCA at the college teaching, you know, these people at the college, they didn't look over the fence at Erie and the nice buildings and the nice labs and so forth. And they say, we don't think anything's going to come of this place. And so, you know, what I hired on, it was kind of like buying a penny stock. And you didn't know what was going to happen. Nobody ever heard of the place and, you know, I played softball for the Erie team and stuff like that because we, you know, and all of a sudden we discovered IRA and the stock went up like that, you know, just like that, you know. So it was interesting. So in the early days, though, you had nothing to do with IRA. I mean, IRA was basically in the can by the time you got there, 65, 66. IRA was there. And, you know, in those days, people at Erie didn't really think much of economy. Well, it wasn't just Erie. I mean, you know, Norm Borlaug and Pete Jennings, they figured economists were part of the problem, not part of the solution. And George Gerard, too. President of the Rockefeller Foundation. You know, I had some correspondence recently with Pete Jennings. He still thinks that. Anyway, so it was kind of, you know, getting in there in the early days was kind of interesting. So why do you think that Berger Tann was at Erie? And so why do you think there was an economist? There was an economist there, I think because of Frosty Hill. Because, you know, I think I owe my job to Frosty Hill. Because he felt there should be an economist at the end. And here's that. You know, they had hard scientists and soft scientists, right? And the hard scientists were the guys like Chandler and Jennings and all those people. And they didn't like the soft scientists at all. In fact, Dill Ottwahl used to say, Dill Ottwahl was the deputy DJ, deputy director when I came to Erie. Dill Ottwahl used to talk about, okay, the Erie scientist and economist. He didn't even use soft scientists. He just called us economists. But Frosty, of course, was the vice president of the Ford Foundation, right? So he was behind the other half of the budget. That's right. Yeah, so he got the social scientists.