 It's not live hi. Oh, there we are now. We're live hi hi. What's everybody doing? Uh, we're all fine here. How are you? Do you think they can oh they can answer in the chat room. Yes, so they yeah now that they can Hey, did you know that Apple took two hours to announce that they have four new products coming up? Well, I think we I guess yeah, it is for well five Six Well, okay, I think eight is two because of the plus right yes And then that ten and then the Apple TV 4k there are two models You're gonna count all the all the storage the capacity store the storage doesn't and then you're counting you're counting air power No Well, so what Apple watch Apple TV Oh iPhone 10 that's cowboy You went a little far here cowboy Stop calling me cowboy What I miss So you're you're counting Apple, I mean iPhone Eight and eight plus is two different products, which I think is fair. Okay. We want to push it. I think you could Argue in a court of law that some people might consider that in under certain circumstances the Apple watch series three. Yeah Apple watch series three LTE oh, but that didn't like storage differences That's why I'm saying, you know, yeah All right, all right kind of like series three is different from series two, right? I'm actually when I say four products, I'm considered there's the iPhone 8 you can get a big one No, I obviously yes clearly. Yeah, but yes, you're right. It all depends on where you want to draw that line Hello, mr. Magic, how are you? Speaking to the chair I thought all of a sudden I had myself a unique name I Off I could see that I could see considering you mr. Magic. Yeah, I think it Could work, but you know if there's one thing I've learned Patrick It's the client to you are too sure they son Okay, so two things here first of all complex grammatical structure kind of mm-hmm You know, it's not just yeah, right? Okay. Yeah He's a particle Mm-hmm, and second. Yeah second You didn't nearly change your tone as much as you usually do Yeah, this is high praise I feel good about this now. Mm-hmm I'm quite impressed Beyonce Oh now you did it again. I know I did the weird voice. I'm sorry but of course I wonder what the the English language equivalent of this would be well, you know in English And American would it be like a cowboy voice or something I guess now not really because Not really because we don't speak like you do but clearly Yeah, right, okay fine, okay partner I would love to be able to make accents to do accents All right good at all of these well what we are good at is talking about tech stuff. You ready to do it Yes And I know it's the it's the two hour announcements. They just they just pull it out of you. All right Here we go Daily Tech news show is powered by you to find out more head to Daily Tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Tuesday September 12 2017. I'm Tom Merritt. He's Patrick Beja Yes I'm good Welcome to the show Roger Chang our producer is here as well. Hi Roger. Hello. I'm a talking website You are on the video I talking website on audio that joke makes no sense Tom, uh before we start I did want to mention something sure, uh yesterday you had a long discussion about, uh Scooping and spoiling uh different bits of news right for different types of Different for a movie versus a tech story right. Yeah. No, it was a fun discussion with Veronica Yeah, exactly. Maybe it's also different for people and and big news that they might or might not have about things happening in their lives I guess. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it's it's just I just thought it was a really interesting conversation that you had so I What makes you what makes you apply it to to personal stuff? That's it You know, I don't know. It was possibly, uh Something that came through my mind towards the end of the show I mean, we don't need to spend too much time on it. It was just something that I thought of Oh, you mean when when I announced that you're entering the priesthood I apologize. I misread the french patreon post you had when I said you're going to be a father. I Right, right. That's you know now that you mention it It is true that it was something that Possibly I would have been looking forward to announcing to our audience And and sharing in the joy of that announcement of me Becoming a a much more religious person than I had been until now, but you know, it's fine. It's as you said spoilers in certain domains aren't really very Shouldn't be considered spoilers. And I think that's uh, that's the case here. So Yeah, anyway, Patrick may have something else to tell you by the end of the show It sounds like I but let's let's start with a few tech things you should know Today at a press conference in Cupertino, California Apple announced a new watch an apple tv device that supports 4k and hdr Three new iPhones with wireless charging one of which which has an OLED screen Most of the new products go up for pre-order september 15th shipping september 22nd The new OLED iphone though called the iphone 10 will go into pre-order october 27th for shipping november 3rd And we will talk more about that announcement in a little bit Apple also updated its website to note that mac os high sierra will come out of beta and be available for all september 25th Now here are some more top stories researchers have devised a bluetooth remote code attack They call blue born that can be used to attack unmatched wind unpatched not unmatched And i'm very unmatched if you can attack it like this Unpatched windows linux and android devices also works against ios 9 and older The attack only requires bluetooth to be on no user action needed, which is why it's kind of nefarious microsoft patched the vulnerability in july but did not disclose it at the time google has provided a patch to device makers for android as of last month and is making it available today For pixel phones. There is no evidence of the exploit being used in the wild So nas nasty exploit, but mostly patched I think this is one more example of the You know in the eternal debate or of should be things should things be updated Automatically versus via user prompts Both have their you know pros and cons This is yet another example of the fact that The doing things automatically even though they do cause problems Does have its advantages as well. Well, and also this is This is the typical human reaction of like why wasn't this patched before and it's because they didn't know about the vulnerability before And then once they told them they worked on getting it patched and these are researchers who discovered it It's not in the wild So if it has been in the wild it nobody would have known about it until these researchers discovered it anyway So this is mostly good news. Like yes, it would be nicer if those patches came early. I agree Yeah, that's always the case. I but I really do think, you know, we're seeing people are well, maybe I don't know about the common folk but even People who are remotely interested in tech are understanding now that there are these vulnerabilities and this is how it works and you research them and you and so I think, you know, I think I'm mostly thinking about windows 10 and I don't want to launch into that huge debate again but basically for many many things having the updates be applied Automatically Makes things easier for most people and in this case, for example, we hadn't learned about the attack We didn't know it was possible. We didn't know anything But it turns out it's already patched if you didn't have that, you know, urgency of don't forget to patch your thing Because there's this Scary attack that's happening. Most people would probably not have done it. But if it's done automatically, you're already safe Yeah, just do the patch Samsung's president of mobile business Co Dong Jin Told the Associated Press that the company has a goal of producing a galaxy note smartphone with a bendable display in 2018 Samsung first demoed a flexible display prototype called YUM at CES in 2013 Samsung also said it has received 650 000 pre-orders for the note 8 2.5 times the number it received for the note 7 in the same period of time Uh, that's Pretty impressive. I I actually am not surprised that the note 8 is selling well that it's selling two and a half times as well as the note 7 uh Is is surprising it's I don't mean that in I don't mean to damn it with faint praise Surprising that it's that popular. It's that good of a phone Uh, I guess so so people are willing to order it. So, you know I was always one who didn't want to overplay the fears of ah the note 7 had the battery problems No, it'll ever order one again. But this is quite A lot better than I would have expected Yeah, I think it's the same for me. It's definitely, you know contradicting my initial reaction when the note 7 issues surfaced that The brand was dead. I was honestly, I honestly thought that the brand was going to have to be retired and samsung very Uh steadfastly improved me and many other people wrong I'm wondering if there isn't a uh, at least a portion of that increase in number Coming from people who did have a note 7 or who were wondering about buying a note 7 held off or Got it, you know reimbursed and thought, you know, I'll see what I do And maybe I do want that specific feature set of the note phones And I'm satisfied with what samsung has done and I'm happy You know, I consider the notes 8 to be a safe choice. And so maybe they delayed their purchase. Maybe that's part of it More than 30 lawsuits have been filed in the united states against equifax over the security breach which exposed records of 143 million u.s Residents. Meanwhile, the do not pay bot. That's the one that helps contest parking tickets. It started in the uk It's now available in all 50 states in the us Can also create paperwork to sue equifax for negligence in small claims court Now you'd still have to serve the papers to equifax yourself. It won't do that for you You also have to show up in court if you want to pursue something like this Meanwhile, equifax announced on twitter that it is waiving fees for removing and placing security freezes for the next 30 days and if you remember from friday's show That was shannon morse's big advice is if you're worried about this put a freeze on your security And and it doesn't cost that much And you'll have to lift it if you need to you know buy a house or open get a loan or something like that But it's it's going to protect you and now equifax is going to let you do it for free And even if you have to lift it within the next 30 days, you won't you won't get charged for that either Yeah, I would have many questions and comments about this. You already talked about it at length yesterday, so I'll hold off But wow man. Yeah, I think that says it all yeah Nintendo announced that it will resume production of the nes classic console for shipping in summer 2018 Nintendo also announced it is it will extend shipments for the nes for the s nes classic console into 2018 which were originally scheduled to end sometime this year This is one of those stories where the headlines bug me and I know it's just me because I've been doing this job too long But people say oh and nintendo backtracks and decides to ship the nes classic after all next summer Nintendo never said it would never ship the nes classic again It said it wasn't going to ship it again this year and it's not but very wisely They've said okay our next available window to crank up production for it again is coming With a shipping date of next summer, so we're going to do that It's just a classic example of nintendo being very orderly and saying no no no We can't change our our schedule, but as soon as there's an opening we'll start producing it again and they did Yeah, it's not like you can snap your fingers and make them appear There are you know delays in these Chains and manufacturing processes and all of this. I think it's also interesting that it is cutting the Oh, I was going to use a french expression translated into english that wouldn't have worked at all She's cutting the grass under the feet of scalpers. I like that though that makes sense to me. Yeah Well, there you go. Maybe we'll introduce it. Yeah I think we can make it a dtns staple. Um, they they're having the grass cut under their feet and and you know showing that um people and companies Incredibly and unless you're making diamonds You don't want to artificially constraint the production and availability of your product And this is yet another example of this nintendo has no interest in making the thing that people want to buy Not available for them to buy it if they Can produce it they will and you know, clearly that's what they're going to be doing Not just with the nes, but with the s nes as well, which is going to be available this uh fold And if they had wanted to constrain Uh supply artificially and and increase the demand or perceived value They could have stayed silent and let the craze wash over The gamers over the next few months and then announce that, you know, they were selling more But clearly that's not what they're doing and for good reason Folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes It helps you really keep up to date if you feel like you're falling behind Don't subscribe to daily tech headlines daily tech headlines.com And you can keep up keep up very easily You can get it as a podcast on the amazon echo as a flash briefing and in the anchor app at anchor.fm All right, folks, I'm supposed to play that when I say that there we go Apple announced a bunch of things as we mentioned and they started with something that I know i'm a big softy But I thought was very sweet and very touching and you could tell it actually meant something to tim cook I don't think he was putting it on uh in in a What was a short uh, but compelling tribute to steve jobs at the steve jobs theater I I was impressed by that I was less impressed uh by other things at varying impressions of other things they announced uh later in the day But patrick, how did you feel on the whole about the announcement? um it's kind of difficult because it should be an announcement that has Wait because it is 10 years since the first iphone was announced and Uh, of course steve jobs probably his most famous Conference and he was famous for conferences and this one is the biggest one The iphone if you want to It's very easy to argue. It's the most important Product of the company that the company has ever put out. It is by far Financially the biggest portion of their revenue by far. Uh, it's completely transformed apple and and their footprint in the world So It would my point is That conference that event Should have had more weight than it did because I think The products that were announced were interesting But they weren't the iphone again, which if we're being honest, they probably couldn't be but they're a small chance A phone an ipod and internet communications device, you know, it was new it was new for apple anyway Uh, and it was new with the touchscreen in a lot of ways This this was an event That discussed the evolution, uh, the latest evolution of their product lines And I don't think they they meant it to actually be anything No, I mean I think this for me if we're talking about meaning and and You know birds eye view. I think this is putting to rest Uh, the idea that apple is going to Do the iphone again, which is a very artificial way of looking at things and I think it's gonna Make it so people who were hoping that this was going to happen again That they were going to have a truly revolutionary product Put out if it's not happening now in the 10 years and we'll discuss the phone that they announced Then maybe we don't we we shouldn't be hoping for it So it's going to put it to rest until maybe, you know, they or someone else But maybe the car comes out or something. Yeah, exactly But at this point, I think even the people who were Super staunch defenders of the idea that apple is going to keep doing the revolutionary things I think they're going to go. All right. Well, we'll see Well, let's start with the the watch watch os4 was announced to be arriving september 19th They talked about that at w w dc So not much new there but a new piece of hardware apple watch series three Which has a dual core processor an altimeter built in a new w2 bluetooth and wi-fi chip And the big the big attractive feature is cellular data built in so lte or umts In your watch you can use the same number as your iphone I'm still waiting to find out how that works if you don't have an iphone Siri can also talk back to you from the watch It's not just siri putting something on the display it can actually speak to you And it comes in a wide variety of bands as well as gold silver and space gray cases There are special nike plus versions and it starts at $329 for the regular watch series three $399 if you want the one with cellular data Orders are starting as most of these products announced today september 15th available september 22nd Solid watch announcement I don't have much else to say about it. Yeah, so I suspect i'm pretty certain it's not going to work without an iphone You're going to need the iphone to set it up So I don't think the question of how does it work without an iphone is really a question There's no reason it couldn't have its own lte number assigned to it Yeah, but I think it's going to be like the iphone needed the pc for a very long time To be set up. I think this is going to be the case for the watch. I you know, maybe I'm wrong I would suspect that's how it works For a number of reasons I think you know, we're seeing more and more clearly the fact that the apple watch has kind of decided what it is It's a health and a fitness product and everything else is kind of complimenting or supplementing that kind of use and I can I'm sure some people will use it Not for that purpose and will use the lte version as an Independent device that they use with wireless headphones to go around without their phone I suspect that it's going to be a very rare case It's going to be mostly people who go work out and don't want to have their phone with them This is the bet though apple says fine. You all want to use it for heart rate monitoring and fitness We're going to give you a health study with stanford on heart rate monitoring We're going to fulfill that beyond your expectations But we bet it's useful for other things and one of the things that kept it from being useful Was not having its own data connection So we're going to put that in there and we're going to downplay it and see where it goes And I think that'll be interesting to watch Apple introduced the apple tv 4k with support for hdr 10 and dolby vision hdr The new apple tv runs an a10x processor with a new tv os and major studios Have agreed to make 4k movies available in itunes for the same price as hd And apple will even upgrade your previous purchases from hd to 4k the tv app is coming to seven new countries So if you're wondering like okay, the u.s. People have that tv app. Is that any good? Well, now you can try it for yourself in canada and australia first with five more countries to follow Apple's also adding live news and sports to the tv app So if you don't understand the tv app It keeps track of what you're watching no matter what app it's in and then it keeps it up there to say Oh, you've been watching firefly in hulu. Here's the next episode of firefly. Oh, you were watching outlander in the stars app Here's the next episode of outlander without you having to know the apps Now it's going to keep track of live news and sports So if you want to know what's playing you can go to a sports tab or it will just tell you like Hey, the game's on right now and it'll be up there right next to your shows New apple tv is available for 32 gigabytes at 179 dollars or 64 gigabytes for 199 dollars pre-ordering september 15th shipping september 22nd Well, you compare this to roku and fire tv. It's expensive It's expensive. It's still the same price as it is For the current model more or less of the app $149 if you want to get the hd version. They're still selling that one too. Yeah, right Yeah, without judging the product itself. I'm personally very happy with mine. Um, I think the the big thing here is the the The price of the 4k movies because obviously if you have a 4k capable device and no content for it, then you have a big problem and they would have been mocked eternally If they hadn't found a an agreement with the studios to provide those Those that content. I'm really wondering, you know, the floating of the the intentional floating of rumors and leaks By companies. I usually don't buy. I don't think they do it on purpose Certainly not apple to the extent to which their their products leak But in this case, I'm wondering if they didn't maybe leak the state of the negotiations with the executives Saying they want to charge you, you know 25 to 30 bucks for the the movies even if you had already bought the hd version and Collated the reactions the outrage from the media and the the public and went back to them and said guys You know, maybe this isn't gonna go over so well for you if that's how it is and I also know the deal Yeah, I also The the movies uh, not just, you know Same price for 4k, but not even requiring you even an upgrade fee for a movie you have already purchased in hd They could very easily have uh, you know Build you five bucks to upgrade to 4k. They thought that if apple comes out today And says hey, guess what 4k movies will only cost you five dollars more than the hd versions And if you want to upgrade your existing ones, you only pay five dollars and that was all we'd ever heard about it People'd say okay. That's I guess that's not bad. It is 4k But instead like you say it leaked out And maybe it was intentional and suddenly it was what apple wants to keep it the same and the studios are being greedy I'm mad and the studios kind of couldn't do anything else at that point I think so. I think they could have they could have said well Make people pay five bucks or and and make them a little bit more expensive for at least a year or two Uh, I think this is a really good deal for people. They really want people to go to 4k. I think Yeah, and uh, they also made mention that netflix 4k will be coming to the apple tv later this year and that amazon that amazon app is still being promised the one they promised at wwc will be coming with 4k on it as well As expected apple introduced the 4.7 inch iphone 8 and the 5.5 inch 8 plus with glass front and back She's standard wireless charging speakers that are supposedly 25 louder than the iphone 7 a six core a11 64 bit chip apple designed gpu that is supposedly 30 faster than in the a10 tuned for augmented reality There's also an apple designed image sensor processor. That also helps the ar But there's also a new 12 megapixel camera sensor that provides 83 more light with better color The 8 plus has f 1.8 and f 2.8 sensors with its dual cameras It also features an apple designed video encoder that can do 4k at 60 frames per second and 1080p at 240 frames per second so you can do good slow-mo stuff As well as a new feature in the 8 plus called portrait lighting the iphone 8 comes in silver space gray and a new gold finish starting at $799 for the 8 $799 for the 8 plus pre-order starting september 15th ship in september 22nd And they also let us know that ios 11 is coming to everybody who has a compatible device starting on september 19th Yeah, so this is the i mean all of this including the iphone 10 by the way and was leaked and was very accurately leaked So it's kind of you were talking about leaks yesterday And i think this is a prime example of why people get Frustrated about leaks. It's that it does diminish the impact of the announcement and the spoiler Right like it's so So it doesn't have an impact I think there's bigger problems with this product line other than wireless charging. What's the difference between this and the seven They're you know, it's kind of like the difference between the six and the six s and they're saying there's the wireless charging So that's why you know design with the glass The glass back means that it's a different design. And so that justifies the yeah, not really I think This is kind of a fun not even a fun. It's an evolutionary standard evolution of their product line um, so it's not That exciting there are some goodies. I think uh the Portrait lighting feature is actually quite impressive For those who aren't aware basically they use the portrait capabilities of the current seven line That differentiates between your subject when you're taking a portrait picture of someone And the background and they can do different Operations on the background and the subject so they could completely Make the background completely disappear apply a certain kind of lighting on the person and make it look I mean on their demo pictures. It looks amazing Um, it there's no reason to believe that it's not going to be possible to do something like that. So that's kind of cool but Yeah, it's a it's a new iphone always cool. Um It's not it doesn't have anything to get people to you know Super incredibly excited about yeah, and if this was the seven s and this was the end of the announcement We'd say ah, well, it's the it's the tick to the talk, right? Like this is it's just what they do in the off eras But I think what makes the iphone 8 stand out is a little bit of a weird slot Is that they announced the iphone 10? And suddenly you're like, well, okay It's 600, you know, what what is the price is it's like 649 dollars? You have the seven and then it's 700 dollars. You have the eight and then at 999 dollars. You have the 10 um It's it's just it's it's becomes a more complex product line than you're used to seeing from apple It's and we should talk about all this together apple also announced a 5.8 inch phone called the iphone 10 It's spelled with an x but it's pronounced 10 has a glass front and back as well a stainless steel band Qi wireless charging it as well, but the big thing is the screen 24 36 by 11 25 458 pixels per inch o led display It can show hdr and there's no home button. So they change your gesture control Uh Vocabulary here you swipe up from the bottom to go to the home screen You press and hold the side button for siri. You swipe up and pause to access multitasking You swipe down to get to the control panel and i'm still unclear how you get to notifications separately from that But to replace touch id We did get facial recognition face id takes advantage of the a 11 bionic neural engine So they have some machine learning built right there on the chip facial recognition can also make custom an emojis Has dual 12 megapixel camera sensors with optical image stabilization. That's pretty impressive apple promises two more hours of battery life over the iphone 7 And the iphone 10 will be available in space gray and silver in 64 and 256 gigabyte versions Starting at 999 dollars for the 64 pre-orders for this start later october 27th for the pre-orders And shipping november 3rd. I would expect limited supply as well from everything we've been hearing So now you got an OLED screen with the wireless charging and the little machine learning and the face id which Yes face id's demo failed in the presentation But if you noticed it failed in a way where it said you need to put in the passcode to unlock face id So face id didn't fail. It was Obviously hit it timed out and it was doing its regular thing where every once in a while even with touch id It'll say, you know what? You need to put in your passcode this time So I don't know why that happened, but it wasn't necessarily a failure in the facial recognition Anyway, after that it worked great for him What do you think patrick? Um, I think the technology itself seems Pretty solid and that's already something to be noted. Um, the the detail with which they They perform that face recognition seems and we'll need testing and all of this, but it does seem like it's fairly Safe to the extent that's something like that. It's got the same secure enclave as touch id has So as far as the data that it stores on your face that is as safe as your fingerprint data was Right, but it's also it does, you know, it has a mapping of your face that is an actual, you know Smooth mapping. It's not like seven points or something silly like like that. That would be easy to defeat So the the point here is that they're making it they they're marketing it as This is better than touch id. Yeah, they even had a little Mentioned there that touch id is, you know, one in 50 000 chance of having someone else But having the same one as you or maybe not that Your phone ran being able to unlock your phone, which by the way that was interesting. They never said that figure Yeah, that's pretty low actually And and face id has a one in a million chance of it being fooled which I think at that point you're pretty safe for something that you're going to use to just unlock your phone um but The so that is is a pretty solid piece of technology The phone itself I honestly having seen all of those, uh bezel less phones. I thought The iphone 10 was a little bit bezel e You know, if you know what I mean, it's like it feels like it does have a little bit of a bezel that is What I was holding my phone my iphone 6 success to The screen and looking at the side at the sides and It is a little bit thicker on the on the 6 but not that much Thicker so it's really the top and the bottom that have been Reduced obviously and it has a much bigger notch than the essential phone of the notch in the essential phone bug people This notch is really gonna bug people. Yeah, and you know, we've seen the essential the galaxy Edge and all of those that have a like the the the bezel actually kind of disappears. So Uh, it's again, we've seen we had seen a lot of previews a lot of leaks. I'm not sure that this phone It's an interesting position for a phone to be in it's definitely marketed as the premium Experience that and and most phones, you know, it's very likely that the the one for next year Is got to be following this design or something slightly modified from this design. Um, which by the way, I don't know What's naming convention? They're gonna be having but they did a windows 10 there They went from 8 to 10 and skip 9. That was interesting. Well, yeah, and they also did an x instead, which is actually, I mean It's it's at first, right? They went for mac OS 10, right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly Um, but yeah, so I mean this I don't think it represents what they were saying it represents which It's very common with apple, but it's not like the Next evolution the next step in smartphones In the smartphone world It's also An Great high-end phone with interesting features. I think I'm gonna wait for Uh people to get their hands on it and tell us how it feels because sometimes I might even say often um, some products Maybe even apple products look A little bit more mundane when you see them in the presentations and when you have your hands on them, they're More convincing because the build quality is really high and everything I found that true of the essential phone I it did not look impressive at all on the page to me But when I got it in my hands It just it felt a lot better And I think that's I think that's absolutely true of most phones when when you actually hold them And you get to play, you know, feel the texture feel the weight in your hand See it in 3d as you turn it around it makes a big difference I don't know that this is the future of smartphones either Maybe that OLED screen will just blow me away, but uh face id looks better than I expected honestly And they did a good job of of reassuring me That that it is as least as secure as touch id But but yes, is it worth 999 dollars? I mean if the samsung phones weren't coming out at 949 dollars I'd say absolutely not on the other hand That seems to be the trend is to sell your flagship phones for 900 plus dollars And apple usually sells them at a few more dollars than everybody else So I guess 999 is the expected amount, but that is a lot of money for a phone Yeah, I think they're also supply constrained. Uh, they made a big deal of the how did they call it super retina display? Yeah It was It was a funny way of putting it basically they were saying Finally the OLED screens are good enough that we can use them in an iPhone Which was you know an interesting way of addressing the fact that Many other manufacturers have had OLED screens before That being said apple needs a lot of Inventory and they they require a lot of Screens when they're going to build the phone So I'm wondering if part of this isn't you know the fact that they knew they weren't going to have enough To produce as many as they wanted and so the delayed production and the price might be part of that as well, but Yeah, I I don't think it's it's I honestly don't think it's going to be Objectively worth that amount you're going to get if you could get for 200 bucks less Perfectly capable iphone if that's what you want Which is one of the latest models with the iphone 8, but it doesn't mean that it's not You know subject to leave worth it for the people who are going to buy one and that's part of the equation as well Now There is the matter of twins. They did acknowledge it if your twin is evil You'll need to use a passcode because apparently while it is hard to fool this And and yet it's good at telling who you are even if you have a hat on or something like that If you're if you have a an identical twin that facial structure is close enough that it'll probably fool it So I know that Ethan Kane in our chat room And and and some of our friends who have twins have said, oh, well, we'll try to try this out on our kids but That it seems to be the only Real drawback to to the face id other than all of the drawbacks that facial recognition would have for anybody No matter what they're putting in. Yeah, they did also mention something that we wondered about You can't it won't work if your eyes are closed closed So if you're sleeping attention, you have to be looking at the phone, right? Someone can't take your phone put it in front of your face when you're sleeping and unlock it So that's unless you and also they made it sound like apple pay is going to be seamless And i'm a little skeptical about that Because I've I've had problems with apple pay and touch id Already in the syncing of when I when I unlock it and when I pay And the face id thing seems like it might introduce some hilarity as well So So how is it different from touch id for apple pay though? Because you confirm with your finger and here you confirm with with your face Is it yeah, and I've had problems where I confirm and then I touch and it was asked me to confirm again So the fact that I have my finger there means like when it's down near the reader I can confirm now. I'm gonna have to like position myself to look at it. I guess but Maybe it won't be that big of a deal. I'm just saying Uh, hey, what was it like on the ground at apple? Well, let's find out we uh talked a little earlier to pete wells of the city morning herald who was there Hey, dts pageant. Oh wait. That's sarah lane. Okay real quickly. Uh, we're gonna talk with peter wells Who is at the apple campus? Where where are you right now peter? I'm still in the foyer of the steep jobs theater, uh, which has been turned into a hands-on area It's pretty loud back here. I do think it goes for the sound No, no, we're we're hearing you okay is we're getting a lot of natural sound It feels like we're there with you and we've run through all of the announcements We know all of the things that are happening. So what we want from you is a little bit of What was it like to be in there anything you noticed and anything getting your hands on stuff? You you think might be different for people Uh, yeah, look it was really good to get my hands on the iphone x Of course, that's the the big thing that everyone's gonna want to know what it feels like It does feel very solid in the hand. It's a it's a really nice solid well engineered piece of uh Well of phone it's very different actually to I was expecting it to be similar to the galaxy s s8 Which has that same kind of edge to edge display It feels a lot a lot thicker a lot more solid than that And yeah, the chrome sides are quite lovely as well to hold on to really nice phone very very expensive But uh, yeah very nice looking phone Is it something where you look at it and and you realize like okay? I'm paying a thousand dollars, but I feel like I've got a thousand dollars worth of display there in front of me Oh, I don't know. Uh, that's a very hard question to answer. I mean, it's it's really a phone for people with a very large disposable income Um, and yeah, look it does it definitely feels polished. It feels like the best iphone i've i've held So yeah, if you're a massive iphone fan, I guess it's worth the money Yeah, I mean a lot of people are just going to pay it no matter what uh, what about the iphone 8 I I feel like i'm having a hard time deciding what they're for They have wireless charging which the 7 does not but otherwise they're kind of a weird in-betweener They do have the new uh true tone display and the camera has been improved as well So the true tone display really does look gorgeous. Um, I've been using that on an ipad for a while now Really love that display. So that's good to see at least. Um, that'd be on that Yeah, I guess it does feel like the standard kind of yearly upgrade that the s cycle kind of upgrade that you'd normally get All right. Well, let's finish up with just your general impressions What was it like to be in the steve jobs theater hear that sort of sweet tribute to steve at the beginning? What's what's the atmosphere like there? Yeah, it was it was a lovely atmosphere to kick off the day I think that they they handled it well without being a little you know without getting too Over the top in the reverence for the man But um, yeah, it was a really lovely experience. Um, and the ground itself is incredible. Uh, so the theater is Crazy apple as you would expect every every detail is shiny and beautiful. Uh, but yeah, it's been a really great morning Actually, I was going to say the one thing that i'm really most interested in is is that you watch The the fact that the watch has lte Uh, and you can actually sync your phone number Across to the watch is a really big deal that that was something that I know other Phone makers and watchmakers and tried to pull off in australia and the carriers have always said no to them so Only apple it seems gonna can make those deals happen Yeah, and i'm curious what the details will be like if you don't have an iphone What the price of that data plan is what that phone number is like and how the syncing works then Yeah, absolutely Well peter thank you so much. Uh, yeah, absolutely. I'll let you get back to it And uh, check out peter wells. You can follow him on on twitter at peter wells And of course look for his work in the city morning herald and elsewhere. Thanks again peter Thank you, tom That was very nice of peter to take some time to chat with us there Um and and give you a little sense of what it's like on the ground In the end though, we all have to make our own decisions Now I often will buy things Uh from these events because I feel like I need to to check them out. I haven't decided yet I will I won't buy an iphone 8. There's no need for that. Uh, it's not that different iphone 10 There might be a question of is it worth the money? And so I may want to buy it for that reason That's why I bought the essential phone to be honest patrick. What about you? I'm you know, I'm on the uh On my two-year cycle. I usually buy Recently I bought a phone every every two years. So I was ready. I had my credit card in one hand and keyboard in another I was ready to shell out the thousand bucks for work purposes, of course for the iphone 10 The presentation actually put me off a little bit. So now I'm not certain. Um, I I'm it's still More likely than not that I'm gonna get it But I'm gonna wait for the hands-on reactions of the um of the press And um, and yeah, so I it's it's very possible. I will but I'm not it's not a definitive Already made decision like it was two hours ago. Gotcha. No, that's very interesting Well, thank you patrick as always uh frenchspin.com the place to go if you want to find out the other things that patrick has Going on anything to tell people about Uh, that's about it. Not patrick on twitter and facebook and uh, I'm as you said I have shows at frenchspin.com and if you enjoy french Uh, maybe you want to go to frenchspin.fr Where I have my french shows including shows about tech and gaming and uh, yeah aside from that Come january roughly there will be someone else that will be Born ready Yes, this is what I accidentally thought was totally public knowledge because I read it on patreon yesterday But you were just telling the patreons at that point. Uh, but all I said was father patrick So tell us more. What's the deal? well There might be a mini patrick in the works uh coming fairly soon and obviously I am uh, we are both incredibly excited and uh, I was you know telling the patreons, uh for my show the filius club and um, it's that the kind of thing that is It we have a strange Relationship us podcasters with our audience and our communities, you know, uh, they've been with us Usually for many years, uh in my case for about 12, especially the french community and they've followed me through many many, uh, uh, different Stages in my life when I you know Changed jobs met my wife got married all of this and um the fact that we're now uh getting into that stage of our lives is Really exciting and sharing it with them and seeing the feedback is incredible from both the french and english communities so i'm You know, I'm getting emotional now. So i'm gonna shut up, but it's something that is uh really special And the fact that we can share it with quote-unquote strangers on the internet and get the kind of warmth and and uh wholesomeness That we do when the internet is supposedly a Hostile place, uh is something that I feel incredibly thankful for so anyway. Yeah, so yeah Babies or well one baby Hopefully right? Well, uh, or you'll have a problem with face ID. That's that's what you're looking at Uh, no seriously congratulations to both of you guys. That's fantastic Thank you Uh, and thanks to everybody who supports us and lets us make a living doing this giving a little value back for This show for the value you get for it We'd like to increase that value And not only will that help out patrick beija pay for some diapers, but it will help out Sarah lane and she needs your help. Hey dts patrons It's sarah lane here and I need your help because i'm trapped in a box And I'd like to be let out before I pass out So here's what I need you to do help us hit the 20 000 milestone on patreon And I will Exit this box and join tom as a regular co-host who can see the sun Alongside the rest of the dts co-host too, but that's not all reaching the milestone is going to bring you a lot of extra content And expanded round table show dts labs stuff you want But we need your help go to patreon.com slash dts and help us out at any amount you can And also check out the cool rewards you get there too. All right. Talk to you soon Let's sarah out of the box people We're we're less than a thousand dollars away from the from the goal. We're like 917 dollars away from the goal. So huge huge huge. Thanks to everyone who has already increased pledges or begun Supporting us at patreon.com slash dts Our email addresses feedback at daily tech news show dot com we're live bundy through friday 4 30 p.m Eastern 20 30 utc alpha geek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv And of course our website is daily tech news show dot com back tomorrow with scott johnson And we'll be talking to a member of the electrical grid community about cyber attacks talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frogpants.com Nicely done good show good show Here we go leveling Um, I'm actually gonna run off right now. Okay Um I'm seeing some cool titles. Uh, there I saw one going by, uh, referencing parenthood If I could ask that you just make it about the iphone or whatever. Don't put it fair enough. Yes We will respect that wish but but congratulations man. That's awesome. Thank you. Yeah, it is exciting And scary Oh, no, it's it's it'll be cool. Trust me I trust, you know, I was a little bit nervous before Trust roger is so much I believe me. I I couldn't sleep the first night. I was like, what am I supposed to do? It's And then you figure it out, you know, that's the one thing that people have been telling me the most it's um Everyone has opinions about what you should do and how you should do it and everyone will tell you a million things but ultimately You kind of know you're wired for it and you you're totally wired for it It's different. So yeah, you'll you'll do things that you didn't think you'd be doing and you'll be doing it almost I wouldn't say automatically, but it's like almost second nature So my plan, uh, currently since you know, you you know how to do things instinctively is to start, uh game console controller training by uh age six months So that when they're one year old roughly they can start helping me out on you know Fireteam strikes in destiny 2 and stuff like that Hey, that's one thing I've never done to try to get her up on video games I don't know why. Yeah, everything is different roger. It's totally different You know, if you you'll know when her or her or his personality starts coming through Well, I guess we know patrick's child will be a pro gamer then Uh, I don't want to put that much pressure. I mean it's happening, you know, a hobby is cool Billions of dollars to support you and your wife That would be nice You're like, I'm not gonna put that that would be really nice. Yes Um, and bio cow. It's actually not finished. It's uh, swedish. So yeah, french english swedish and hopefully japanese But you're in finland part time. So they might pick up some finish too Well, if they yeah, they will learn, uh finish in school Um, because finland has uh swedish speaking minority and that my wife is part of that So it will be swedish First and then finish in school which is swedish and french at home english while podcasting japanese for recreation and finish in school Not bad. No a finishing school. Yay All right, that's it for me Bye guys Oh, that's fantastic. I'm so excited for Patrick Um, apple announced a bunch of things I chi what you did there apple Apple's gonna give x to uh iphone no home button a kick in the bluetooth iPhone 8 wireless charging iphone 9 nothing iphone 10 profit Counting with apple 8 8.1 10 Uh What happened to iphone 9 iphone 7 8 9 iphone 7 8 9 iphone 10 the selfie ad extreme Apple makes the dick tracy watch, but they made the dick tracy watch. Well, you know Born ready for the iphone 10 apple is paying with power air power They'll have an app called shock at all I Think I like apple announced a bunch of things. Yeah good done It's kind of how I feel There aren't bad things. There's some good things They're interesting things I'll probably end up having to buy at least an apple tv 4k out of this to try it out for cord killers Might end up having a drop on the iphone 10 haven't decided How much do you all care because that's that's kind of what determines it is Am I going to be able to pull useful information out of this device to inform my shows? um So, yeah I'm curious now roger before we started recording was expressing skepticism on face ID I was going to pull you in and during the main show, but we were You guys are close to pretty well. Yeah. Yeah, um, but but your concern is that Someone could grab you and force you to unlock your phone by pointing your face at it Yeah, the the the seed for that discussion was um, there's a twitter discussion going around What if you know essentially what if With face ID could the authorities i.e. the police or whoever Forced you to unlock your phone And there was a back and forth about well, you know, you can do the five tap on the on the button press to lock it out and You know the the counter argument of always is that you know if you're being surveilled you might not always Be be aware of that and so I mean really the crux of the matter is um, could this be So, uh, could this be uh, something that people who are very um protective of their ID Want to avoid as as as amazing as the feature is is it something that? You know, you would want to give pause to implementing uh for yourself Yeah, well, and I think that's fair. I think for the majority of people face ID is probably more secure than what they would otherwise do um, but If you are really concerned about this sort of thing if you're in a sensitive position Let's say or you're you're you have confidential information that that people might be trying to get after The number of situations where you wouldn't be able to do The five tap lock are pretty low But let's say you're like yeah, but I can't I have to have zero percent chance of that you may just not want to turn this on because You know it it's hard to fool But It's also I mean yes, you could just close your eyes if somebody's trying to force it in front of your face to unlock You also have to swipe up at the same time. I don't know. I think in 99 percent of situations It's not going to be a problem But if you're worried, uh, no you shouldn't use it because it is not a It is not a foolproof situation. Put it that way. Yeah But it's it's not something most people need to worry about Unless you unless you have a history with the police or you just don't like the police You know even police though like most of the time when police come you'll be able to get those five taps in Quick like it's it's very rarely that they're going to come across you in a situation where you couldn't it's mostly going to be a traffic stop If you've just got problems with the police, it would have to be something like you're saying where you're being surveilled by the fbi For something that's that's that's a higher level than just I've had trouble with police Don't you think Yeah, maybe I mean like if your eyes are I don't know. I'm just thinking of the silly things you could do like You knock knock someone out you tape their eyes open I'm curious. I'm curious if if that would work you have it says you have to be looking at it But it doesn't say it to be conscious Um, I wonder if it can tell if you're If your eyes aren't moving, you know because you're I also was wondering somewhat humorously, what if you got like You set your phone up and then you go for like some minor plastic surgery Like you got like it's like to lift your face or something. Well, then you put in your passcode and you reset it You have to reset it But yeah, uh, that depends. I mean it can it can deal with hats and different expressions and stuff But yeah, a whole new nose. It might not be able to handle Oh new You know, it's like the whole biometric thing about like oh uses a retina scan or uses a fingerprint And you always have the horror movie where someone Cuts off the finger or takes out the eyeball Yeah, and some of that is ridiculous. Some of that is overblown Some of it's just not something that most people are gonna have to worry about but again If you're if you're talking about worst-case scenarios There's some reality to that and certainly fingerprint and face are not things you can change So that's always a concern You can't if somebody steals your face ID. You can't go change it Well, not without a lot of money for plastic surgery as well You can't change your fingerprints very easily at all. That's that's really tough So I'm wondering if someone could rebuild the face like they someone gets your phone But they don't know who you are you have a limited set of information Could they rebuild the image of a face of the person based on that security? Beatmaster says he uses biometrics only for passwords and purchases never for device unlocking. That's interesting Oh, that's very interesting. Why only Why only passwords and purchases? Tindvicks points out that easy depends on how much pain you can handle as far as changing your fingerprints Um, I guess that way nobody it's harder for people to get into the phone Right Once someone's in the phone that they can they can get it. Oh, I keep because I can't be forced to unlock it then I I see but they could smack the crap out of you until you Devolve to the password. I guess I don't know. Well, yeah I mean, that's what I was saying in our pre recorded conversation is like there's ways to get a passcode out of you too You know surveil you and look over your shoulder if you're not paying close persuasion and then there's social engineering It's not like a passcode is always a hundred percent Uncrackable either just don't put anything sensitive on your phone So, well, that's right. I think that's I think that is impractical at this point Even for people in sensitive situations like at some point you need to be able to store information and any information storage is vulnerable The question is can you make it reasonably protected? Well, you know, well depends on beatmaster says that's against the law I have bigger words as they persuade me. Oh, well, I don't know. I because it's an easy equation They're then there's persuasion. No Well, no, I wasn't actually talking about physical a physical beat down I'm talking about like threatening you with some other Crime psychological tech tricks. Yeah, or basically like what they do with plea bargains Like well, look, we've got this picture of you doing this, you know, this picture can go away if you give us the passcode These are all edge cases mind you. Oh, no. Yeah, it is But that's how you test really. I mean, it's like saying a bridge can hold 12,000 cars every 30 minutes Uh cars pass by it, but you never really test at 12,000 test at 10,000 but you want to make sure I'm not saying that needs to be 100 foolproof, but Yeah, it's knowing where the where the the line is because everything has a vulnerability That's that's something I try to try to remind people like nothing is 100 secure. The question is What level of security do you need to get what you need done? And for most people it's it's not not 100 percent. Nobody needs 100 security But you would like to have it as high as you can as you can get so so chum donkey in the chat room actually Brings up something very interesting. He's he she writes Does the face ID encourage people to take their eyes off the road with touch ID? I don't have to look at my phone to skip a song on pandora or do some other things Um, you should not be doing either of those things while you're driving You should not be unlocking your phone with your thumbprint while you're driving either That's my that's my response I don't I don't think apple is is inciting people to do something Wrong people are going to use their phones while they're driving anyway. I don't think face ID makes it worse Stuts don't don't use your phone while you drive. It's incredibly dangerous whether you're talking about thumbprints It in a certain respect it might be safer If you've got it mounted here to be able to unlock it by by glancing at it Versus having to think oh, it's my thumb in the right place Like I could see that possibly being safe, but guess what either one of them are safe Don't do either one of them get a spouse or A life partner and then they can do it for you Or have a car mode where you know the things you need to do can be done very quickly Or be very quick No, no, no, no, no That's like the old southern Illinois thing about drunk driving. Oh, I'm fine drunk driver. I drive slow and I'm drunk No, no, it doesn't that's not okay. No Get a horse just hit your car to a horse and the horse is going home It'll be fine Alrighty, uh, that's it for this episode. Thanks everybody for hanging around. I hope you enjoyed it and uh, oh my gosh We are so darn close. Uh, I have a really good feeling about this week Getting us to the milestone. We even have we have another milestone. It's not not a huge one like this one But there is there is something so you know, even if once we hit the milestone We'll we'll still want people to support us because the more value we get from you The more value we could try to give back in the virtuous circle continues. Uh, but yeah, right now $917 away 917 but people To give us a dollar a month $12 a year so the price of a cup of coffee for everybody who has supported us. We'll talk to you soon